effexor

[Hemps]

Hi there,

I am on week 13 of effexor. I thought it was working great, was doing a course at polytechnic keeping me busy. I also take diazepam and zoplicone. My doctor is trying hard to get me to wean off diazepam but I am finding it really hard. I am also on holiday for 3 weeks waiting until my next course starts. I am finding that my anxiety has taken a back flip and I am feeling really anxious again. I hate being at home alone. It is so weird as I really used to love the time out at home.

I have 3 boys that are really stressful so I used to enjoy the time out. My doctor thinks I have just come down from the high of being at school and back to the mundane life of a housewife again has raised the anxiety. He thinks that I was doing well while at school so was not sure as raising my dosage would help as he is sure I will feel better when I go back.

Anyone got any advice for me? I feel sick all the time. Could it be the medication or just anxiety. I don't know.

[SADnomore]

Hi, Hemps!
Just sneaking on the forum with a bit of the last data I have until the monthly allotment gets set again, I'm on holiday too. No school to go back to, though!

I have to say that it is likely that the very idea of reducing your diazapam is what's increasing your anxiety. Not that you shouldn't do it, just that with the awareness of your natural reluctance to upset the applecart, you can take comfort in knowing that this is where it is coming from and that it will def leave again. It is fairly common to have become dependent on the benzodiazapenes, which is why your doctor will want you free of the diazapam, he knows your situation and your capabilities (you seem to be very high-functional! You are stronger than you give yourself credit for I think!). I'm sure he has every confidence that now that the Effexor is meeting your needs, you will be able to come off the diazapam before you become seriously addicted. Now is a good time, really, to do this while on a break. I'd you've ever done CBT you can use those techniques to manage withdrawal symptoms, but please do know that it is simply that, the withdrawal and your mind's trying to grasp it that will have you feeling increased anxiety symptoms again for awhile. You can do this! And it IS for the best, really it is. You don't want to have your mental recovery stopped by an addiction. We are here for you! xx
Marie.

[pulisa]

You say that your 3 boys give you a lot of stress so maybe the doc is right and you are missing the distraction of doing your polytechnic course during the 3 week break? You are doing really well to be studying anyway whilst on venlafaxine, diazepam and zopiclone.

After 13 weeks of ven as Marie says you shouldn't really need the diazepam or zopiclone if the venlafaxine is doing its job for you. Docs here generally prescribe diazepam for a short time only when the anti depressant is first prescribed.

The prospect of coming off diazepam must be very frightening and unnerving but you may find that it is easier than you imagine now that you are established on venlafaxine and also you have your studying to return to very soon.

Wishing you all the very best

[Hemps]

Thanks for your replies. I think that I probably are already addicted to the diazepam. As I am on Antidepressant No. 3 in a year and have remained taking the diazepam and zoplicone throughout.

I do know I can get through this as I have had to do it before. It just seems harder each time. I do know that I don't ever want to go off my antidepressants again. I will remain on them. My doctor does also say my boys are stressful, and most other mothers would feel the stress I do. I have to learn to relax more. But sometimes I just feel so weak and sick of the fight! At the moment I have way too much time to think about things.

I do want to get off these other drugs and have been tapering, but I think I need to do it very slowly. I feel pressured by my doctor saying I have to drop every fortnight.

[pulisa]

Hemps, you are in a stressful situation with your home life and your course is probably bringing you much needed time for yourself and distraction from your day-to-day worries?

If your anti depressant is truly working and suits you then you will have no need for the diazepam as an additional support. You say you have been taking the diaz for a fair while so yes, you will need to taper slowly. Your doctor should have been aware of the addictive nature of diazepam in the first place.

I really hope that you feel strong enough to continue with the diazepam withdrawal-at your own pace- and then you will be able to assess better how the venlafaxine is working

[SADnomore]

Hemps, Pulisa is right, you are a star for succeeding at school what with the diazapam use. Did you know that benzodiazapenes actually interfere with memory and learning? Wow, you must be really smart to be getting through your courses, considering!

If it helps, when I was in school and my kids were little, I had been taking (for years) a variety of benzodiazapenes, depending on what generic the pharmacist had on hand, often diazapam, but also a little pill called Halcion. All that time, it was so frustrating for me to have gone to class and learned something, and then have to re-teach it to myself by studying the same material over and over before exams. From a new doctor, I learned about the memory impairment caused by Halcion (it has also been implicated in crimes and driving offences when people have actually been in pajamas and have no memory of the event next day. Not kidding.). The pills were sold on the street and sometimes called "forget-me-nots", a sarcastic reference to the fact that if a person took them and didn't go to sleep right away, they would feel high but basically be in blackout mode and forget everything that happened to them until awakening or the drug wore off. You may find the lulling calm thing with the zopiclone similar, with the difference being that if one persists in staying awake, it will just "wear off" and one may be left unable to sleep just as if they hadn't taken it.

Anyway, I say all that to say this. Don't be afraid to come off the diazapam, I did it, and you can too. I needed to check into a detox unit because I had been taking it every day for years, and had upped the dosage by 1/2 again. the last year or two because the regular dose wasn't effective anymore. This is called tolerance.

Zopiclone is not actually a benzodiazapene and is less likely to create tolerance, but one may still develop a dependency on it. I no longer take benzos and my doctor is aware of my previous addiction, but prescribed me zopiclone to deal with sleeping problems I had again after many years. Now it has been years again, and with the typical rebound insomnia any time I try to sleep without it, we both agree I am dependent on it now, but I do not take more than the one pill as prescribed. So, no tolerance. At the moment, I am taking other meds for depression, and he says he wants for me to get that in hand and then we will talk about withdrawing from the zop. Honestly I do think that it would be wisest to do a withdrawal of the benzodiazapene firstly. Later, when you are coping well, you can do a slow withdrawal of the zopiclone if you want. I know that I was managing fine for years without a sleep aid and I would like to get back to that place, although I too have accepted the need to be on antidepressants long-term. One bridge at a time, meanwhile my doctor is not concerned with my zopiclone use for the time being, and that heartens me. Also, another member has successfully and painlessly come off of zopiclone before and shared with me the slow schedule she followed.

A downward adjustment every two weeks is normal, but maybe your doctor would negotiate a smaller amount down each time. At the same time, you will need to appreciate his concern that you do come off of it sooner rather than later, for your own good. And no need to worry, truly. In my case I had to detoxify from it rapidly. And came through it fine. :-) Good luck, you can do this! xx
Marie

[pulisa]

Marie, you have been through such a lot but have made remarkable progress and are always so willing to help others with your brilliant insight and acquired knowledge... Benzo withdrawal in a detox unit must have been the pits?

It angers me when docs regularly prescribe medication and then rapidly pull the plug on it at the first whiff of any "addiction" issue, expecting the patient to be able to stop the drug with ease. A friend of mine has been on temazepam (40mg) nightly for 25 YEARS!! -prescribed freely by the GP- and now there has been an almighty fuss about it and the GP wants her off it as of yesterday!! I think that it's extremely irresponsible to prescribe an addictive medication for such a long time without reviews and then to expect the patient to withdraw without any problems.

I do fear that in future we will all be informed that anti-depressants are addictive- "discontinuation syndrome" blurs into "withdrawal" so easily. It only takes one boffin in "high authority" to put a spanner in the works? I suspect that zopiclone will be the next to be blacklisted but you are more than prepared to face another challenge, Marie. I'm so glad that the ven is working its magic for you!

[SADnomore]

Ohmigosh, Pulisa, thank you so much for your kind comments! I have learned the hard way that the medical profession often doesn't know what they're doing when prescribing potentially addictive meds. As you say, they routinely start and renew these prescriptions without thinking about the consequences for the patient who has to come off of them again. As I shared on another post, I once had a doctor who, when I asked for something to help me sleep, for the very first time, mind you, gave me first Mandrax and then Seconal! These are powerful narcotics and highly addictive, I know he was just a GP, but still it was like taking a sledgehammer to a finishing nail! When benzodiazapenes were recommended for sleep instead, he put me on those, and the rest is history. I have been off of them for something like 18 years now, but I have had doctors continue to tell me that only "a certain type of person" becomes addicted. Like its a moral issue. I know better.

I believe you are right and for probably most people and most situations, benzodiazapenes should onlu be used for short-term support. There are also beta blockers for physical symptoms something else I learned on this forum. I know I will probably get those symptoms again with increases, and I am keeping the idea of taking a beta blocker like propanolol or another, as an ace up my sleeve, lol!

I too am worried like you that the antidepressants we rely on will suddenly be considered addictive and no longer prescribed long term. There is a popular theory right now that because they don't know everything there is to know about how they work, then they shouldn't be prescribed. And as you say, discontinuation is equated with withdrawal in the sense of addiction, rather than the brain resuming its function again without them. (Since we are talking about the brain, isn't it logical that this is going to be felt vividly in our systems during this time?). Also there is growing support for the proposal that a lack of serotonin is not responsible for depression for example. I have to ask, if this is the case then why do we have to be pretty well overdosed or accidentally take two medications both of which increase serotonin before developing serotonin syndrome? If my brain had adequate serotonin to start with, then why am i not sick from getting "too much"?

We have to hope they don't go the wrong way with these meds many of us need to function well. I agree. At the moment, I still don't know whether my doctor will agree to keeping me on my SAD meds year round or will want me off them during summers after this. I know Effexor is generally much more difficult in terms of discontinuation symptoms, something I didn't know before I started taking it. But, here on NMP, I learned that if needs be, then I can ask to be switched over to a longer acting med and then slowly stop that. I feel better now about that possibility. But I know my condition isn't going to change, and sooner or later I will need the right antidepressants for it, once again. Let's hope the psychiatric community continues to support their use for all of us where needed. And that competent GPs like my current doctor continue to prescribe and monitor them too!

I love that we can share what we have learned on here! Even though I am still kind of figuring out how, I feel like I belong here, lol! And i know that no one should be made to feel as though they have done something wrong when they have become dependent or addicted to these drugs. Who wouldn't take a pill that works to make us feel better, calmer, able to cope, at least for a while? We place ourselves in the hands of our doctors, who are supposed to know best, after all. Some honestly mean well, but fail to reschedule patients and wean them off as comfortably as possible. It seems there isn't enough time spent on educating doctors enough on the "disease" of addiction. And having come through the storm myself, I can empathize with people who are experiencing the things the addiction itself will make us think and feel as we try to get straight. All lies. Especially the one that tells us that we cannot cope without the drugs anymore. The toughest part is putting those false ideas firmly out of our heads. And there is no shame at all in reaching out for help. We are not responsible for our addiction, but we are responsible for our recovery! And if that means detox and counselling, then so be it! It was actually a very positive experience for me, being cared for and supported the whole time by professionals who knew exactly what to say and do to help me, not as bad as I had feared at all.

Thanks again, sweetheart, and best of luck to your friend! Tell her there is NO SHAME in getting whatever help she needs, okay? xx
Marie

[pulisa]

Thank you for your kindness and wise words, Marie. My friend was actually offered anti-histamines to take the place of her 40mg daily temazepam fix!!Following the inevitable disaster she was then offered 2mg diazepam and then 20mg amitryptiline. She has no funds to support a detox unit stay so has to go it alone. I don't think she quite realises that she has become an addict through no fault of her own as her GP and his predecessors were quite happy to prescribe for 25 years.. ..

I think that in 50 years time psychiatrists will be rolling their eyes at some of the meds that we are being prescribed today but I doubt whether there will ever be a "perfect" drug-non-addictive with no side effects of note-which will be heralded as a breakthrough in mental healthcare. Prozac was meant to be a wonder drug but it certainly has its detractors. Beta blockers are hardly benign and don't come without other side effects.

Diazepam can be such a lifeline and can offer precious respite from utter terror-I was only too happy to be prescribed it when hospitalised following a bad reaction to seroxat. It's very much a false friend though.

Your stay in the detox unit was obviously a positive one, Marie and you sound as if you are a very strong person to have conquered so much and learned such a lot from your experiences.

[SADnomore]

Thanks, Pulisa. You are the best kind of friend for her, a real gift, compassionate and understanding and really concerned for her well being. Any kind of support you offer her will be a great help, I know. If she and her doctor are willing, she could be admitted to hospital for a safe detox and support until she is strong enough and knowledgable enough to carry on without any benzodiazapenes. The substitution of any one for another, in any dosage, will only prolong her addiction. At the same time, she needs to come to understand that she cannot take alcohol either, as the same thing will happen again. Since being on her prescription for all these years she will need the physical and mental support that a medical setting offers, most appropriately in the psychiatric ward. Any doctor can get her a bed, because she truly is at risk of harming herself while undergoing withdrawal. It can be a desperate situation. Here in Canada, hospitalization and counselling with psychiatrists/psych nurses is covered by our health care system. ... I had a break in the denial that is always a part of the problem and was able to use this opportunity to get help. I am sure that my family would have had me placed under a psychiatric hold, however, if it came to the point that I was at risk to myself or others. Here at least, one's parents or one's spouse can do this without the patient's consent if necessary. I hope it doesn't come to anything like that for your friend and that she sees her window of opportunity and her doctor is willing to help. If he isn't then she should feel free to tell any doctor that she does not feel psychologically safe and needs medical supervision. Some wards have staff and contacts to groups who have special knowledge of addiction and its manifestations, and can help her immensely! It will at some point be up to her to decide to take advantage, but if some or none of this has been brought to her attention and she seems open to talking about it, a friend like you can be her rock