Do you have GAD/panic? If so do you also have an ongoing problem with physical pain?

[jonchoo]

I'm trying to test the idea that GAD/panic is caused by pain/damage in the body, not by a malfunctioning mind.
I'm a sufferer, not a 'scientist', but the more I look into it the more it seems plausible.

[Capercrohnj]

I have 2 severe GI diseases so idk if my answers count. My GAD started way before I developed those diseases. I can't take most OTC pain meds because of my gut issues (everyone stay far away from NSAIDs if you have gut issues). Opioids kinda help my pain but not anxiety. Cannabis helps my anxiety not pain. The tricyclic antidepressants didn't do anything.


My diseases (Crohn's and gastroparesis) didn't cause my anxiety and were not caused by anxiety though anxiety makes the worse.


ETA: I have had my colon and rectum removed and ghat difn't decrease my anxiety at all other than the fact I have 0% chance of crc now so don't have to worry about that.

[jonchoo]

My GAD started way before I developed those diseases.

Have you considered that your gut may have been in distress, but didn't present obvious symptoms? You obviously have severe problems with your gut - I can't imagine that they appeared out of nowhere.
What I'm driving at with this idea/theory is that anxiety is linked to 'pain'. There is published evidence to support this (Google "anxiety paracetamol").
Now, when I say 'pain' I'm not only referring to the sort that we actively feel (like a toothache) but also signals that the body sends to the subconscious about 'damage', 'inflammation' or 'malfunction'. I wrote a more thorough explanation in another thread if you are interested (I can't post links yet apparently).

[MyNameIsTerry]

This being the HA board the nature of the fears will differ greatly to most on the GAD board, speaking as a GAD & OCD sufferer myself.

It sounds like you are asking about a chicken & egg scenario of whether GAD has been caused by disease/injury that has made the person hypersensitive to symptoms of their disease/injury. That's complicated by the fact trauma may be healed but left solely in the subconscious like in PTSD.

In my case, I do suffer loads of aches & pains like anyone on here but find my anxiety has always latched onto them big time to amplify them (my GAD that is, my OCD has no health elements). But it wasn't injury or illness that caused my GAD, it was not spotting the signs of working myself into the ground until BANG one day something snapped in me at work.

Are you looking into the inflammation side of mental health?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Many antidepressants treat pain too, among other meds (Pregabalin, for instance). They work on the neurotransmitters that also work with pain reduction. But I wonder just how much anyone knows about this stuff other than "we observed it helped" in a study and therefore we'll give a go?

When my adrenaline levels are ramping up, up goes any existing pain with it even if it's not actually any worse.

What do you make of the studies of things like Mindfulness, and even CBT, in reduction of pain symptoms?

You will be able to post links once you're post count hits 10. It's just to help keep the spammers out.

[jonchoo]

Mindfulness, and even CBT, in reduction of pain symptoms

That's interesting - I hadn't heard about that, but it certainly backs up my 'theory'. Meditation could fall into the same category.

Many antidepressants treat pain too

The evidence just keeps on mounting. What if ... just imagine ... WHAT IF I'm right about this.

---------- Post added at 08:13 ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 ----------

The latest drug they have me on is Mirtazapine. I just checked and guess what - its effective at treating chronic pain. Google "Mirtazapine pain" and you'll find the study. The very first thing I noticed when I took the first pill was that my gut stopped bothering me.

[MyNameIsTerry]

That's interesting - I hadn't heard about that, but it certainly backs up my 'theory'. Meditation could fall into the same category.


The evidence just keeps on mounting. What if ... just imagine ... WHAT IF I'm right about this.

---------- Post added at 08:13 ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 ----------

The latest drug they have me on is Mirtazapine. I just checked and guess what - its effective at treating chronic pain. Google "Mirtazapine pain" and you'll find the study. The very first thing I noticed when I took the first pill was that my gut stopped bothering me.

Mindfulness and therapeutic forms such as CBT aim to change how you feel about your symptoms and your situation. You learn to accept it and learn to be more positive about it. So much the same as they are used to treat mental health conditions.

I would be wary of bias with your theory as many more people who suffer painful conditions, or traumas, never go on to become mental health disorder sufferers. So it can't be as formulaic as one creates the other there is a big question mark over why it also doesn't, pretty much that Holy Grail of anxiety disorders we would al like to get a firm answer from the medical world on. And comorbidity doesn't have to mean causality.

[jonchoo]

many more people who suffer painful conditions, or traumas, never go on to become mental health disorder sufferers

The basis of my idea is that pain/discomfort (even subconscious signals) are interpreted by some people's minds in such a way as to trigger anxiety/panic/depression. So it could, in that sense, be described as a malfunction in the brain.
The people who have the malfunction are diagnosed with GAD/panic/depression, and given pills to 'treat' their minds.
Perhaps we could, instead, cure the root cause/trigger or simply find ways to prevent the trigger from firing.
I am only a sample size of one, but I know that this makes sense in the framework of my own experience. I have also read many experiences of other people that broadly align with my 'theory', along with the scientific studies I have mentioned (loperamide, paracetamol, anti-inflammatory drugs/supplements/herbs, the gut-brain connection, pain and anxiety activating the same areas of the brain, anti-depressants as painkillers, dietary anxiety triggers, links between auto-immune inflammation and diet, and probably some more that I'm forgetting).
I'm sure you'd agree that even if this only works with 5% of sufferers, it would still be worth pursuing. But I think there's something real here.

[pulisa]

CBT and psychological therapies are all part of Chronic Pain Management programmes in hospitals.

[Capercrohnj]

There are lots of antidepressants that help with pain and are given to chronic pain patients. None of them worked for me though (including mirtazipine).

I 10000000% agree anxiety can cause gut pain but not necessarily gut pain causes anxiety (except worrying about the pain).

My GAD started as a teenager. I was diagnosed with Crohn's at 38 almost 39 so Crohn's didn't cause my anxiety.

---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 ----------

CBT and psychological therapies are all part of Chronic Pain Management programmes in hospitals.

Yes because chronic pain is difficult to live with and causes/worsens depression and hopelessness. I have aevere chronic pain all the time and it sucks bigtime.