Any ideas

[WANTTOBEBETTER]

I am a 36 year old male. Married for over 10 years (great wife), I have two wonderful girls (2 & 8 ). Nice house. Great job. My life is a good life. Why do I suffer?

I have posted at another site , thought I might also post here to see if any one has any experience with what is wrong with me!

Here is my weird story.

I have suffered from anxiety and depression since I was 10 years old. I can remember my 1st worry was how can we prove there is a God. Then I began to worry about the end of the world catastrophes, the greenhouse affect, nuclear war, etc. During all of this,things started to appear strange or weird looking. I would look at my hand and think it looked weird, unreal. Some things appeared that I was looking through a yellow haze or eerily dark (even when sunny outside).(This period of my life was when I was not happy due to parents divorce and mother dying of cancer). I developed a fear of a glass clown my grandmother gave my mom and she gave to me. I obsessed over this clown and I knew I could never get it out of my life even if I sent it into outer space. Very depressed, I could never be happy with this thing around. It went to the landfill and I got over it.
At about 14 years old I was still depressed and worrying about every stupid thing. Sitting around the kitchen table one day something in my brain triggered. I felt light headed, confused, scared. It was almost like someone turned the lights out. The yellow haze thing again. In my mind, everything seemed different than it was 5 seconds before. (I am assuming this was a panic attack). I was convinced that nothing was real and that I was living in a dream never to awake. I kept thinking and reinforcing to myself that I would awaken one day and be in a coffin unable to get out. I started to look for proof that life was not real. Any coincidence or improbable thing scared and reinforced these beliefs. I thought I could hold my breath forever. Something I dreamed the night before would happen the next day (dejaVU), weird unexplainable things really disturbed me. The world still looked and felt just weird and different. Looking out the window looked weird, Inside the school cafeteria looked weird w/ fluorescent lights (I thought it looked dark and dreary like it could rain in there) Depressed and worried all the time.

At 15, I move in with my mother. I met alot of friends, had alot of fun, and ignored my [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]symptoms[/COLOR][/COLOR] if they existed. I would get a feeling or disturbance every now and then but I went on.

At 16 I took a 1/2 hit of acid. (I now try to convince myself this is why I have all my problems). Nothing happened. (I just stayed up all night watching movies) Later, I tried marijuana. It threw me into a nightmarish state. Anxiety big time, I ran home. Felt really weird. I felt the same for many days later, like I was in a dream. My life was a hell for months. Spaced out, freaked out. Was I in a permanent drug induced state with no escape?

I met my now wife at 16, fell in love. Things slowly became better, and if I did ever feel weird, I ignored it.

Started college, really stressful on me. In my second semester sitting in psychology class, again like when I was young it felt like someone turned the lights out on me. My ears began to ring, I got confused, things looked hazy and dark, I was scared. My head was swimming. I wanted to run out. I kept this with me for years, always looking for these symptoms. I began to question everything that makes sense to a normal person. Why am I here?, Is this world real?, There could be darkness and nothingness in the universe. Void and nothing, but somehow we are here? Were is the end of the universe, it must have and end. This must prove life is unreal. I even questioned air itself.( what was in between me and another person. There should be something there? WEIRD!) People looked flat (literally) to me. Something a mile away I felt as it was close enough to touch. Depth perception way off. I questioned the borders of things like street signs and thought they should somehow be attatched to it's background. Weird stupid thoughts that drove me crazy.I was not happy, things were always weird, dizzy, scary, hopeless, hazy, foggy, dark. The sky was strange,it looked too blue. Sometimes things would appear to stick out at me, if not they looked flat. Depressed.

I coped for a couple of years and it began to intensify on me in my
Senior year of college. I had a fit and admitted myself into a hospital geared toward depression, anxiety. I stayed a week and they put me on prozac 20 miligrams. The place did not help. I even tried to blame (Why?) my girlfriend for my condition and broke up with her. We got back together thank God.

Over the next few years I got off and on Prozac with different Doctors and psychiatrist (They All diagnosed me with GAD - generalized anxiety disorder and depression) I got my first job and coped as well as I could. The majority of my days were happiness and good life, although these thoughts or feeling would invade every now and then. I would not let it defeat me.

I married my girlfriend and tried to move on with my life. Things would pop up but mostly I would put aside my symptoms. We had children I was happy raising them. I began going to the gym, quit smoking to prolong my life so to be there with my family. Feeling pretty good for a couple of years (not cured though). Forgot about my symptoms and my weird past.

I am now 36 years old and I am working up to the same level of anxiety at my worst,and I suffering from all the same thoughts, feeling, perceptions, delusions?. This has been building for two months now. I am questioning air again, flatness, depth perception, thing look weird again like a dream, dark. I am extremely stressed. clenching teeth, wake too early, worry, all muscles are tight and sore, heart beating out of chest, confused, weird, pressure in forehead, dizzy. I would struggle and go to work. I was at one point were nothing looked familiar, like I am in another matrix world and I have nothing from home to see or have. Everything is foreign. Every thing scares me, every thought bothers me. I could just make something up and within a few seconds it would be my new worst fear. Even sitting down to watch tv, I would go through the channels looking for something familiar or comforting. Everything felt wrong and "uncomfortable".

I went to my family doctor and twice they have increased my Prozac to 40 miligrams, to now 60 miligrams. I think 80 miligrams is max. I started taking Omega 3 fish oil also. I am alot better now than I was a month ago. But still not normal. It is depressing and scary to think back and every memory in my life is in this state.
I wish I could forget all this and put these childish ways behind me. I am afraid I will be a 80 years old one day tied to a bed in a retirement home in this hell screaming and afraid.

Do I need to pursue another medicine. It seems nothing I have ever done has worked. Increase to 80?

I am a smart, fun person, with what I feel like is a mental condition. I want to live like everyone else. In happiness without the worry and weird feelings.

Any advice??

[gtrgrl3369]

Hello there and sorry you are feeling like this. Alot of what you are feeling is called depersonalization. Where nothing seems real. Trying to find something rock solid to hold on to so you dont feel as mad. I have been there. You can get through this. That is a high dose of meds you are taking. That was the only med I tried and took it for one day and had a bad reaction to it. You can do this. There is no reason to go backwards. I know that it is hard to accept that this is life and it is real but it is. Who is to say that others are happy, we just happen to express ours. There were many a times when I would think something I probably shouldnt and my husband told me that alot of "normal" people felt the same way but dont say it out loud for fear of looking nuts. I have personally never cared what others thought though. Look at what you have at home and focus on that. If a thought comes into your head dont fight it, just roll with what comes. I have learned that the more you fear what you dont know the worse it becomes for people like us. Fearing the unknown is the worst. It creates all sort of problems that grow into bigger ones. Depersonalization was one of the scariest things I ever faced. I beat it and so can you. Try and get some good sleep though because being overtired does not help. Please feel free to write me if I can help. Take care.

[Oceanblue]

Hi,

Yes, I too believe this is derealisation/depersonalisation, accompanied by depression. It's a horrible feeling to have, like you say nothing seems real anymore, it's a very scary feeling.

I think it's worth talking to your doctor regarding your medication, maybe he/she can review them.

I agree that you cannot live in this constant trapped feeling, you need a break from this, it has been going on for far too long and you need some help from a doctor you can trust.

If it helps, I too have been through these feelings of anxiety/depression since a very young age, it hasn't been easy.

I'm sorry I haven't much advice to give right now, as I too am feeling this exact way at this moment. When this stage has passed,.. I maybe of more help. But I had to write just so that you know, you are not alone with this and that I hope you feel better soon.

Take good care x

[alias_kev]

Firstly welcome, and well done for sharing a lot. It takes bravery or being rock bottom or maybe both (in my experience). It also makes it easier to write without guessing stuff....

This is a long post, but you told us a lot, sound like you want a lot of help and I prefer to enable you to learn for yourself rather than sell you my particular conclusions in brief.

From the sounds of it you have said it yourself - you were anxious as a child - and you weren't anxious about normalchildish things - eg. "why can't I have a Dog" or even "Is Nanny ill". I don't think all of us start that early I really don't think I did but for some of us it is a sad truth. Your "acid" experience may not have helped but I suspect the biggest significance of this is that it gives you a focal point to a) have anxiety about, b) blame, c) give all the responsibility too - I'm damaged by that so thats it. Sorry that sounds harsh - I can't think of another way to refer to that event and be clear - I'm not critisising you I'm trying to point out how a human trait - that I suffer from to - tries to find ways for us to not cope and not to have to.

Actually from your description of your wife and family, etc it seems like you have actually done very well up to now. Especially if anxiety has been gnawing at you mind since you were 10.

Have you ever been given a formal definition of your anxiety/depression or reached one yourself? edit: Sorry I reread and clarified that they told you ages ago you have GAD with depression. Were they my Doctor's: I'd like to know why they are only treating the Depression and how fluoxetine is going to target my GAD. Especially as they've had a) some time to have it do it and b) used the maximum dose without affecting the anxiety!. Sorry I hate forming such as specific opinion and set of advice. I prefer to steer and educate and share my experiences. I'm just really annoyed for you. Do try and read all the links I've provided. I don't think I'm on the wrong track but YOU NEED to do yor own reading and learning and reach you own conclusion.
(end edit)
In my experience Doctor's treat depression or stress - very few even notice the anxiety even if you talk about it to them. Have you read up on GAD (Generalised Anxiety Disorder) as a specific illness? This may give you insights into your condition or it may confirm that you (formally) have something else going on.

The two best presentations on GAD I personally have found are the one here on NMP at Anxiety page on left hand menu and the one at Anxiety Care. If you were in the UK I'd also mention our NHS's (Health Service's) leaflet. The latter is very useful for UK sufferers trying to knock some sense into their GPs if their underlying anxiety is being ignored.

Our NHS also has simple questionnaire/test called GAD7 which can help in accessing your anxiety (and its stress, panic, and depressive side effects) IF you actually so have GAD. I thinks its accurate in severe cases as I used to get a score of 20/21 and antidepressants helped get me to score of about 17/21 according to my wife. And yet they initially treated me for the depression and the stress - not the anxiety! I was depressed and stressed but had to work out for myself that they weren't the foundation of my issues.

Do read the information above and see if the descriptions of sufferers backgrounds, experiences or symptoms have any connection with you.

In terms of treatment the UK is very into CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) but the health service itself only doles out tiny amounts. I got about FIVE hours for a problem which has usually been suffered silently for years - you get longer for giving up smoking! A lot of people find CBT helpful because it addresses the faulty (or over sensitive) thinking that underlies a lot of our responses, behaviors and worries. They call them Irrational Beliefs. Unlike many traditional or new-age therapies CBT doesn't say "its all the past's fault", or "its unchangeable" or "here's a trivial fix". Basically it says "work out where your thinking is broken, learn to spot that, learn to repair your thinking", oh and "here's a bit of help". Most of the work has to happen in your (our) heads because after all that's where the problems lie. If our anxieties were correct or useful or even just moderate, there wouldn't really be problem in the first place!

Now medication can help you cope now and help you with the recovery process. It can also be a tremendous burden (physically, mentally and in some countries financially). Many medications are tough to come off of, quite often the ones with the quickest and clearest effects. That's why these days they are loath to prescribe many medications. In my personal experience and from observation of others' posts they are also prone to prescribing for the depression or stress or panic symptoms rather than for
anxiety.

In the USA you may suffer the opposite as everything is paid for my you or insurance they are like UK Vets and you tend to get every treatment and drug imaginable sometimes at the same time. I've seen posts by American's whose drug combinations sound like the crazed experiments of a mad scientist. They give you A and add B as A did not work too well. You get C and D to counter the side effects of A and B, and E to counter the side effects of D, and F to sleep. I may be exagerating but its how some posts have read.

In the UK its the opposite. The NHS prefers the cheapest drug from the cheapest supplier. They deter the prescription of the medications that sufferers prefer if they are more expensive and deny there are any differences if they can get away with it. eg. Southend's PCT is declining Escitalopram and insisting on Citalopram.

So basically medication is very useful and for severe GAD I can only recommend it BUT its a mine field and if you have a good brain or education (and few health anxieties) you should read up on anything you are prescribed and on the alternatives. Eg. my GP offered me Fluoxetine as a help to my anxiety - it has no special affinity listed for GAD, and the PCT is now rejecting Escitalopram which is one of the few listed with an affinity for GAD. Utter Madness.

I think medication as a powerful tool towards daily functioning and recovery but not as the recovery itself. Its like having an externally pinned leg break - painful, awkward, tricky to adjust and very useful - but your leg still has to heal and you still need physio to get it working again.

Do lookup the medical information for your existing prozac - its quite possible that some of your recent symptoms are related to the meds and side effects rather than your anxiety. Or the opposite. Only you and/or your doctor can decide. There are a number of summaries here. I believe the UK information above is a often bit more detailed than some of the USA summaries.

Just realised your prozac is the same fluoxetine I got offered. It is mainly for Depression and also good with OCD and Bulimia. There is a general theory that all SSRI drugs - of which this is one - help anxiety. This may be true (I start to doubt it) but there are other SSRIs with published affinities to GAD, such as Escitalopram. There are other medications which are targetted at the anxiety - but maybe less helpful with the depression.

Only you can decide which emotion/experience is at the ROOT of your problem - that is what you really need medicated. I suspect that a lot of Doctors think we get anxious because we are depressed and stressed. I think (with GAD sufferers at least) we often get stressed because we are scared because we are anxious. We get depressed because (in our faulty minds) we are living a world full of anxiety and fear. The other thing I discovered in November 08 when my father died is that "active stress" (where you have a lot to do and can do it) and enforced busyness and quite good antidotes to anxiety while they last. I think some of us work (and even have a homelife) in a stressful mode or environment and thus feel less of the anxiety and fear. I know atleast one sufferer who I'd swear lives life at 100mph busy every hour as an antidote to their alternative - anxiety, etc. I don't blame them - heck I care about them and worry for them - but I'm not convinced its a long term strategy.

I wrote this post the other week about what I'd identified as treatments for GAD after lots of reading and googling and "pinches of salt". There may be others and I'm only a sufferer like you trying to know more than doctors (which isn't always hard). Look at it this way - they had 7 years extra school to learn (say) 10000 illnesses, 5000 medications and treat say 2000 patients along the way. Why would they know more about your condition than you - why would they even want to.

As a footnote I've just switched to Buspirone (Buspar) which is anxiety specific and listed as especially suited to GAD - but less so for other anxieties. I have a thread about this journey too started 3/Apr/08.

PS: Good Luck and keep talking to us.

[alias_kev]

While I was writting my essay (!), gtrgrl3369 and katie76 posted about depersonalisation.

If you check out the Summary of Product Characteristics (SPC) for prozac at the medicines website I linked too you will see the following:

4.8 Undesirable Effects
...
Nervous system: ... confusion, agitation, anxiety and associated symptoms (eg, nervousness), impaired concentration and thought process (eg, depersonalisation), ...
...

This may be a reason to have the dose reduced or tablet changed BUT do not stop it suddenly. Even on a low dose STOPPING SUDDENLY is a BAD THING. On a high dose like you - you need to taper off. Ask you doctor.

According to that UK SPD you are on a very high dose. Unless you have OCD or Bulimia it expects you to have started on

... 20mg daily. ... Although there may be an increased potential for undesirable effects at higher doses, in some patients, with insufficient response to 20mg, the dose may be increased gradually up to a maximum of 60mg

.

What seems odd to me continues to be that Fluoxetine is targetted to depression rather than anxiety and you are on the maximum normal dose. Nearly the maximum trialled dose. Your life history focusses on your anxiety and the depression seems a new or secondary thing. What do you think?

[WANTTOBEBETTER]

Thank you all for the thoughtful and insightful comments. It always helps.
I have good and bad days.
Thanks!