Adrenaline causing ectopics/irregular heartbeat?

[Midori]

Hi NMP.

(I posted this first in the HA area but then discovered this dedicated area for heart problems)

This is my first post here about myself as this is an issue that bothers me the most - every single day, multiple times a day. This community seems great, I've just been reading over some of the posts and it's very comforting to hear similar stories! I will try to not rant too much but hopefully I can get some peace of mind from people suffering the same problems.

I'm 24 years old and have an issue regarding unwanted adrenaline triggered by hyper awareness, well at least I think that is the problem.

The earliest event I can recall is when I was around 15 years old I complained to my mum that my heartbeat felt irregular. I'm not sure why I was focusing on it but it seemed like I was getting a few fast beats followed by a normal steady beat. Obviously this worried her and myself so after seeing the GP I had an ECG which came back as "normal". I did have an irregular heartbeat but apparently it was not originating from the lower chambers and was apparently common for healthy people to have. As far as I can remember they just said that there was nothing to worry about and to try and keep my mind off it. (Easier said than done!)

Since then I have always had a vague awareness of my heart depending on how busy I am. I work in a studio so unfortunately I end up feeling my heart beat a lot throughout the day without meaning to (I can just feel it without touching with my hand). I keep myself very fit and healthy, I'm quite active and eat a great diet - mainly vegan but also including fish (no junk food at all). My problem never physically stops me from exercising or going out etc - in fact I am very social/active but it's ALWAYS on my mind even when I'm supposed to be enjoying myself.

This past year has been a little bit of an emotional roller coaster for me, I graduated from university with a first degree which had me very stressed in the run up to exams in order to pass the best I could. I went from this incredible high to two weeks afterwards a close family member suddenly passing away. This is the first close death I have experienced and I thought I would handle it better than I did. Instead, I discovered what a panic attack was for the first time and I experienced them multiple times in the following weeks. After learning some breathing techniques I am happy to say now those moments are now behind me now that I've accepted the loss of my family member and grieved properly.

One thing that hasn't changed is my awareness of my "irregular" heart, every time I become aware of it - I notice the rhythm changes, almost in fright. It will speed up when I think more about it - just like if I think about an upcoming event I'm not looking forward to I get the same adrenaline rush/sense of dread that sends my heart rhythm into chaos! I actually think that I have a normal heart rhythm UNTIL I go into manual mode where my mind messes up the normal rhythm it HAD - if this makes sense? For example when I wake up of a morning - it's amazing how regular it feels, it's so reassuring to feel - then seconds later I can feel drenched in adrenaline and boom it starts having to speed up to deal with my unnecessary fight or flight response that was triggered for no reason.

I absolutely hate feeling like this, I feel like I "run my body" in a different way to everybody else, I just wish that I could be on automatic that I didn't have to think about heart rhythms and breathing. I always envy my friends just going about their lives presumably not thinking about this kind of thing that I burden myself with. To top this, I occasionally get ectopic heartbeats, they strike out of absolutely nowhere - they started during my final year of university so I'm wondering if they are stress induced. I can be sitting relaxing watching a TV show, or working and boom! 1-3 three "missed" heartbeats followed by a big thud in my chest. More often than not these make me physically jump up out of my seat and make me start breathing hard as if that will reset my heart - I sometimes feel like I could be dying when it happens it's honestly the worst feeling I can describe. There was an awful time it happened on public transport, I had one ectopic which I clearly felt followed by 2/3 "struggling" beats that felt like half beats afterwards, I stood up and felt my face had gone red, then sat back down once it returned to normal - my heart was then racing, beating out of my chest... I have never experienced anything like this.

It all got a little to much for me last year and I ended up going to the GP again to see if anything had changed since my first heart check up I had. He found that I had a slight murmur whilst listening to my heart and agreed I could go for an ECG and Echocardiogram to put my mind at ease.
As expected these came back as normal and the lady doing my echo explained that she often had "girls my age" coming in worried about their heart when their heart structure is completely healthy. This made me gleam with joy and I thought to myself I just need to sort out this heart anxiety I have.

The annoying thing is my partner has even commented out of the blue on how my heart feels irregular when I have been relaxing watching a film with him. I am quite slim which makes it easy to feel and see if you happen to be lying close to my chest! These kinds of comments from your partner do not help my anxiety about the issue at all!

I don't tell my friends or family my huge anxiety about this as I feel like I am going crazy with it. I try my best to get on with my career but it's a constant grey cloud over my head. I am generally a happy person, very busy and very content with my life at the moment - it's not like I am depressed or genuinely worried about anything. I just seem to get these unwanted bursts of adrenaline that come from things as simple as thinking "oh my train stop is next" ... and then boom my heart is going in all sorts of crazy patterns.

If anybody could give me some advice or some coping strategies that have worked for you then that would really brighten up my day! I would love to never have to think about this.

Sorry for the essay also, I had to tell my story properly

[Peronel]

Hi Midori,

When I developed HA over ten years ago, my heart was my very first focus. My symptoms ranged from irregular/skipped beats, feeling like my heart had stopped, feeling like my pule was too weak etc etc.

These were all perceptions which I exaggerated with my anxiety. Heart issues don't scare me anymore (other things do, but oh well).

I can remember times when I would be in bed, and suddenly leap upright, feeling as if my heart was not beating. I would have to frantically search for my pulse and then it would take hours to wind down from the adrenaline rush! So my sleep suffered as well, I'm guessing yours probably is too?

I think normalising the symptoms is the best thing. Read lots of posts on here (try to focus on the success stories rather than the negative posts). Also, when your partner makes those comments, remember your normal test results and reassure yourself that you are fine. You have been experiencing these symptoms for a while now and nothing has happened yet, so you're probably okay!

Hang in there.

[sputnikmoon]

Hey Midori,

I came across your post whilst googling the exact same issues.

Everything you've written down is a carbon copy of my issues, symptoms and thought processes.

Now don't worry, whilst I'm writing this post mainly because this is one of the first times I've felt like I've clicked with someones post and description of symptoms on a forum, it looked like this could be a time where I actually manage to reassure someone

I'm 26 and have had this for the past 8 years, it starting when I was at sixth form on the final stretch of the exams. I started getting little flutters and flip flops in my chest that would make me inhale or gasp, but didn't really concern me at first - but as the weeks progressed I began feeling like the flutters where leaving a strange sinking feeling behind that would follow me around for the day.

In the beginning I was under a cardiologist and taking beta blockers... but after months of tests the cardiologist promptly took me off the meds and stated on his reputation that I have an absolutely perfect heart... and if anything it was a notably good specimen! He summarised that it's all just stress and anxiety.

Fast forward to today, I'm living with the exact symptoms your describing whilst taking myself into A&E a few times each year for episodes that keep getting attributed to as panic attacks... I basically get the flutters and skips whilst feeling off and having a permanent sinking feeling in my chest for a few days... this climaxes in multiple occasions bizarre chest sensations and palpitations that build up to an explosive crazy fast run away heart and me telling everyone that I'm dying

Now, after the all clear from the cardiologist, I hoped that would be the end of it - my head would click back into place and the symptoms would ease.

The good news is that they did - but with a caveat

I can go months without a single issue, totally forgetting about the ordeals that this can put me through and it's great! But, I do get little "seasons" of the symptoms returning which last a few weeks and are accompanied with really, really bad anxiety and me obsessing with every tiny change or sensation I feel in my body.

When I look at the patterns of these relapses, I can pretty much see that the coincide or spark up just after periods of high stress for me.

It almost feels like I tend not to get stressed about the actual things that should be stressing me out - which is great as it helps me deal with them quite well... but I then redirect all that stress internally and attribute it to arrhythmia's that the doctors haven't caught that then sends me in a looping tail spin of health anxiety, stress, ectopic beats, high adrenaline feelings and panic attacks that take a few weeks for me to clear out of my head and settle back down.

The reason I've just been googling this issue again is because I'm currently going through one of these "seasons". I've been back in that head space for the past few weeks and whilst it's nothing I haven't felt before, it still scares me witless.

To go through the symptoms you describe:

"Around 15 years old I complained to my mum that my heartbeat felt irregular" - CHECK - Mum also replied that she has those sensations regularly too and my Grandad has also chipped in that he has them as well! Neither of them have been to hospital or had any scary episodes.

"Since then I have always had a vague awareness of my heart depending on how busy I am." - CHECK - Unfortunately, whilst mum and Grandad can put this to the back of their mind and not give it a second thought, I tend to default to checking my heart whenever my mind is clear, as if I'm trying to preempt something.

"I work in a studio so unfortunately I end up feeling my heart beat a lot throughout the day" - Exactly the same here, I work in animation and post production, so I'm always at a workstation swimming in my own thoughts whilst racing on deadlines. Rather than being stressed about the work, I tend to defer any cardiac sensations to me dying, rather than I'm just anxious about a certain job, or I'm sitting funny or I haven't eaten yet.

"My problem never physically stops me from exercising" - CHECK - I'm a keen runner during spring and autumn and never had an issue - although it can flare up just before a run or just after, but I put this down to apprehension before the run and increased adrenaline from exercise.

"but it's ALWAYS on my mind even when I'm supposed to be enjoying myself" - CHECK - Totally! Whilst I don't think anyone around me notices, I can be having a really bad problem in my head when out with friends and work colleagues. Alway's monitoring any sensations in my body and being scared that something will happen. However, after the second drink this totally lifts and I don't get a single symptom whilst being drunk and dancing all night! This usually reassures me as it seems like the alcohol lifts the anxiety and I'd have thought if I had a dangerous arrhythmia that it would have surfaced whilst swimming in alcohol and dancing for 5 hours solid.

I only drink once every 6-8 weeks though as I'm not too keen on alcohol in general and the next day my symptoms go through the roof as I cannot handle a hangover one bit, my heart feels awful all day and it just feels like it's racing and skipping like an old car engine - but I think that has to do with adrenaline in your system after processing alcohol and I'm super aware of it and then add a heap of adrenaline to the mix through my anxiety about the situation.

"a close family member suddenly passing away" - CHECK - My Grandmother who I was very close to died last July and I think my current run of symptoms might be me dealing with the emotions from last year now that time has passed and we're back at the same time of the year. Whilst it wasn't a surprise as she had terminal cancer, the period in which she died was very hectic and I almost feel like I had been too busy to properly grieve at the time. Of course, the symptoms where bad at the time too - but back then I didn't attribute them to my heart as I totally knew what was making me feel that way and they cleared up quickly as I didn't get into the health anxiety loop in my head.

"...just like if I think about an upcoming event I'm not looking forward to I get the same adrenaline rush/sense of dread that sends my heart rhythm into chaos" - CHECK - Totally get what you mean with this. I've always been googling to try and find out why you can feel and PVC/PAC coming on... but never managed to find anyone else describing that, which made me worry. It almost feels like my heart wants to skip and a sinking feeling in the centre of my chest, but when I check my pulse, it's strong and regular... then after a little while, BOOM, it flutters and feels like the pressure broke. Then that usually peaks my anxiety and I jump on google to try and make myself feel better

"when I wake up of a morning - it's amazing how regular it feels, it's so reassuring to feel - then seconds later I can feel drenched in adrenaline" - CHECK - Getting this a lot at the minute. I wake up, immediately status check my body, think... "wow, I'm feeling alright" then within a few minutes a strange sensation builds in my chest, I'm telling myself I feel weak, I get a PVC, feel nauseas, heart feels light and fluttery and I'm forcing myself to eat breakfast and get in the car as nothing is going to happen.

"There was an awful time it happened on public transport, I had one ectopic which I clearly felt followed by 2/3 "struggling" beats that felt like half beats afterwards..." - CHECK - Yea, I had one on a train a few years back which must have sent me into a panic attack... to my embarrassment I got the train conductor to call an ambulance as I this happened early on and I was still to work out what a panic attack was. Next minute the train is at the platform, telling all the passengers there's a medical emergency, a little old lady was giving me tissues and mopping my brow and an ambulance turned up 20min later. The conclusion after 4 hours in A&E... your hearts fine. Mortified.

Now as for coping tips and tricks - unfortunately I haven't found a magic bullet yet, it really seems to be linked to my stress and anxiety - but when I'm bad I get it into my head that the heart issues are causing the stress and anxiety... Once I'm through the other side and in a period of feeling better I can usually pinpoint an external stress or anxiety that was much more likely to be the cause.

I've tried all the recommended supplements, Apple Cider Vinegar, no caffeine, low carb etc - but nothing seems to help - when it wants to come it'll come.

There is a lot of forum posts from cardiologists and medical white papers that I've read that point to PVC's/PAC's being vagus nerve stimulation and it totally made sense to me as to what might be going on, I'll dig them out and send them to you if your interested?

The good news about it is that the sinus node, which is the main controller of your heart beat, is still ticking away fine and just gets on with it, hence the big thud... that's basically the sinus node telling the vagus nerve to shut up and reminding it who's in charge.

Because of this, your heart is in no danger of stopping or getting too messed up as the thing causing the flutter isn't your heart itself, it's an outside nerve that's being a little jumpy and tripping up.

It's worth noting that people who have really bad PVC/PAC's can have thousands a day - to the point where every other beat is a PVC/PAC 24/7 - I think a lot of tips you see on the net are more for people like them.

The amount that I have when I'm bad are well under 20, and when I'm having a good season I can literally go weeks or months without noticing them. Which is within the normal ranges for a healthy heart - just unfortunately my anxieties focus on it to the point where it both fuels it and blows it out of proportion.

This again makes me believe it's more anxiety/stress than a genuine heart issue.

To conclude, from my experience, why would a genuine heart issue or dangerous arrhythmia disappear for months on end only to return at periods of stress and anxiety... it never makes you pass out (although I often feel like I will, sometimes for hours on end - even been to A&E whilst that was happening and my heart rhythm and blood pressure were fine), never makes you unable to jump up and do exercise and to be fair, the worst thing it does is freak you the f*ck out

[Catherine S]

Mine started in my 20s and i'm 60 now and still get them daily, but the beta blockers..propranolol.. ive been taking for last few years have really lessened their power. Giving up my regular evening alcohol has lessened them even more am pleased to say. My own doctor takes beta blockers for this too so i'm in good company! They used to terrify me as there is heart disease in my family history, but because ive had them for so long ive kind of learned to live with them. Also, recently I have developed acid reflux, which must have been coming on gradually over a few years and there is definately a connection with stomach irritation and these ectopics too.

ISB x

[Midori]

Wow thank you for the replies guys! I'm going to PM you now Sputnikmoon, your story is ridiculously close to mine - I also work in the games industry haha (2D/3D artist!)

[Flutter]

Hi all, nice to read that other people are having the same issue as me and I am not alone. I am a 34 year old male who has had the same issues for about 8 years now and go through times of highs and lows. I am convinced it all comes from something in the digestive track and this vagus nerve I read about. Someone who said they had cracked the issue sent me a guide to what they had done which mainly involved taken Aloe Vera gel which aids inflammation and helps your digestion. I thought this was a god send as I purchased this on the 26th March from holland and Barrett and was amazed by the results. I am someone who does not normal take any supplements, I won't even have paracetamol with a head ache but had got to the point of thinking I will by it to try when the next attack comes along as When the panic comes in I will just try it then for the first time. Well that day came and within 20 mins of taking it ( and in my head thinking it will not work at all ) I felt that built up blocked feeling ease away. You know that feeling you get when you know one is going to happen like there is a pressure or a none painful tightness...I find it hard to explain but that feeling anyway went. I can honestly say I was flutter and skipped beat free for months. I started to cut it down to about 1 cap shot full every other day (started on 2 cap fulls a day) and all seemed fine up until about a week ago when I got a cold and its now all gone back to normal even when I take it. It was great to have that time with no symptoms. Before I could not lay on my left side for more than 5 mins without it going off but I was able to lay as long I like without that feeling or build up of feeling.
The guy I contacted who gave me the guide had other items to try so that might be my next corse of action to see what else might help as I would really love to crack this as it can be such a pain on your social life. I thought I was out of that black hole and going forward but now feel back in big time....even this weekend I had to go to a family event and found myself checking for exits and working out the best route in my head if I had to drive to A and E lol.
Out of interest does anyone else suffer sometimes from acid reflux or ever suffered from it?
I would like to try and see what people have that can find a common pattern to this as I am sure most people who have been to the hospital or there doc tell them they are fine and the heart is normal but at the end of the day we live in a modern world where the research is not worth the time or money at the moment, not when doctors get paid to prescribe us certain drugs to ease things as fixing it would mean no money coming in so would not be cost effective. In my time I have had so many different doctors tell me it's some many different things I just give up with what they say now. 4 years ago Just before I moved down from Yorkshire to Devon I was told it is a mechanical issue and nothing to do with stress and if I am told that by any other medical professional it's to get me out the room.... Well the next doctor I see when I move then tells me it's all anxiety and I am making it happen! Can't win.

Anyway I hope one day this is found and cured so the life of fear is no longer in the back of our minds.

[mrsak87]

Cheers for that, I have all these too and that's one of the most reassuring things I've read. I think I'm cured then I have one night out drinking and it all comes back