Brain working recursive Therapy

[zippyzoomer]

Hi everyone

I wanted to ask if anyone at all has had BWRT? It is supposed to work for a variety of anxiety related conditions and the practitioner basically works with you to freeze a traumatic memory and replace it with the desired response.
It hasn't worked for me! Online, there are so many success stories so it does make me feel like I am too complex (got CPTSD).
Anyone had an success at all?

[MyNameIsTerry]

It makes some big claims but does it have any clinical evidence?

Testimonials are easily faked by unscrupulous "gurus" as I've found with one where the same people left differing glowing reviews where they got their own histories wrong. And some photos appeared under different names across other sites on the net.

Can they back up their claims with anything?

[KK77]

Hi everyone

I wanted to ask if anyone at all has had BWRT? It is supposed to work for a variety of anxiety related conditions and the practitioner basically works with you to freeze a traumatic memory and replace it with the desired response.
It hasn't worked for me! Online, there are so many success stories so it does make me feel like I am too complex (got CPTSD).
Anyone had an success at all?

Why don't you try the free online CBT course recommended by NMP:

http://cbt4panic.org/

I would be very wary about trying these sorts of therapies - and paying for them. Unfortunately, as Terry says, there are charlatans online paying shills for testimonials and positive reviews etc.

[zippyzoomer]

Yes, it is true to say that there isn't any peer reviewed articles, and as far as I know, nothing in academic journals.
Yet, the therapists claim that the BPS have approved it (I am waiting to see if this is true as have asked them) and there is a clinical psychologist in South Africa that has had so much success with BWRT that it is being included in the masters of psychology programme there.
And the founder of BWRT is trying to get BWRT included in the psychology degree programmes here (though I would have thought empirical evidence is still needed).
However, it normally never seems to be conducted by psychologists, always hypnotherapists without a degree in psychology.
Anxiety UK won't endorse it without proper scientific evidence.
I can't find a real live person who can say it has worked for them, despite searching. Terrence Watts (the founder) seems very genuine, however.
I tried CBT4panic...didn't work for me I am afraid.

[robinhall]

Hi Zippyzoomer

CBT4Panic wouldn't have much relevance for you

Can I suggest you have a look at these two books - they look very promising

The Body Keeps the Score: Mind, Brain and Body in the Transformation of Trauma
by Bessel van der Kolk

and

Waking The Tiger: Healing Trauma - The Innate Capacity to Transform Overwhelming Experiences
by Peter A. Levine

You may know of them already - you can find them on Amazon

[zippyzoomer]

Thank you Robin. Got the first one but found it very heavy to be honest. Not much help. Shall try and get the second.
But why do you think CBT wouldn't help someone with complex PTSD? It is one of the therapies that is used.

[robinhall]

Sorry - I should have explained better

I meant CBT4Panic specifically because it is aimed mostly at people with Panic Disorder

A few people on the forum said it has helped them with aspects of their Health Anxiety but it really doesn't address CPTSD at all

You would need CBT that is specifically for CPTSD

[MyNameIsTerry]

Q: Can it work for things like alcoholism, gambling and anorexia?
A: It can, but those are complex issues and it's impossible to state definitely that it will work every time. Having said that, the success rate is very high and the relapse rate very low.

Which begs the question - why aren't the NHS saving themselves billions in using this treatment? I've seen big claims like this before from "gurus" and yet the NHS know nothing about them.

Q: But how do you do that?
A: We start by 'freezing' the troubling thoughts then we employ a technique called 'Recursive Looping' to condition the way the brain responds to triggers. BWRT is the only therapy (as at July 2017) to work in this manner, making it one of the fastest and most effective therapies around.

Evidence? Making that claim on a site under the jurisdiction of the ASA is a breach of their code if evidence can't be provided.

Q: Does it last?
A: Yes! When your problem is resolved with BWRT it stays resolved.

I've seen "gurus" make thee exact same claims, anxiety will never return. No matter what battlefield you experience, you will be bulletproof. There can be no evidence for such a claim as it has to be time tested. A month later, 6 months later, no come back to me in 30 years and say it has never come back.

Q: How many sessions will I need? I don't have a lot of money.
A: One of the great things about BWRT is its speed. Often, a single session is sufficient to resolve your problems. It's rare for there to be a need for more than 4 sessions.

Similiar claims are made about hypnotherapy forms.

I really can't see how the BPS would approve it. And if it had got to that level I would expect it to be something we can find across Google as it would be widely known about. If AnxietyUK won't touch it, that is significant to me.

I think this is in the pseudoscience side. It may work for people just as things like NLP, hypnotherapies, etc can & do. The trouble is the fall down on the evidence and it becomes a chance to the buyer. Having said that, therapies that were seen in the same light like EFT are now gaining real evidence (and EFT is used in the NHS).

He sounds very good from the site but I've seen convincing people like this before and I can see the usual advertising hooks they use to hook the desperate so I remain skeptical on this. And the first I heard of it on here was another poster recently.

I'm also a little bit skeptical about this being based on Libet's work. I don't much about his work but I've seen others stating it's disputed. And I've even seen a well known convincing "guru" using it to claim their product works because Libet's work proves CBT can't...yet CBT has tons of accepted evidence across the world.

The courses approved by the BPS can be found in here:

http://www.bps.org.uk/system/files/P..._2016_june.pdf

It's worth noting that is just about framework fitting, it doesn't imply agreement something works necessarily. They will be able to confirm more. And it does say some of those in the list may not have met criteria but are also included (which is confusing when they haven't been bothered wot say which is which!).

Definately one to do some digging into. Since you've contacted the BPS, I get the impression that's part of the intention of this thread and if so, good on you.

I'm wary of people saying they can wipe out 30 years of problems the same as they can a months. Imagine how they could save the NHS and the rest of world?!!!

[zippyzoomer]

Terry

I have literally done so much research now regarding BWRT. I have emailed psychologists (most of whom have never heard of BWRT), contacted the BPS (rang them, they said they hadn't heard of it but would reply by email and find out if there is any truth to it being approved by them, even only for CPD). Emailed Anxiety UK to see if they had changed their stance on endorsing it, but as this was only August this year, seems doubtful. This psychologist in South Africa, he practices it, and it looks like it will be in their psychology masters programme, but there is no clinical evidence. So I don't get that. In the Daily Mail, there was a story of a girl who overcame her fear of birds and credence is lended to the therapy when you have this in it: 'Anne Abey, a chartered psychologist and head of physical health psychology at Lincolnshire partnership NHS foundation trust qualified as a BWRT therapist a year ago and found it so helpful she encouraged four colleagues to train in it, too' Does she not wonder about evidence? The thing is, it gives you hope...it did me. But when the therapist started doing a 'protocol' as they call it with me, about freeze my memory and then replacing it with a good, calm memory and then jumping forward to the therapy working and then freezing again...my brain started to say...hey, wait, how the hell can this work?! I had a small placebo effect and then nothing, apart from crushing disappointment. And I bet you if I say continually that it doesnt work for me, I will just get told I need to believe in it. The therapist working with me has said she has had excellent results. Where are all these people?!

[pulisa]

I really wouldn't waste your money on this "therapy", zippyzoomer. Sadly mental health is Big Business in the private sector and you get all sorts of "therapies" offered with miracle cures and the like..All you gain is a depleted bank balance.

I'd stick to the tried and tested proven therapies.