Magnesium

[Catherine S]

So the 400mg I take may not be enough. I no longer suffer the HA I once did, but the ectopics and flutters have been lifelong and Ive been taking it to help with this more than anything really. Although I take beta blockers for this which do help loads, but I also have to take thyroxine too, so I'm never sure if there's any cross over with any of them, as in if one cancels out another.

ISB x

[sandie]

IStillBelieve = I suspect you could probably double your dose and it would be more than safe.

---------- Post added at 21:06 ---------- Previous post was at 21:03 ----------

I have copied and pasted from another thread (I hope Terry does not mind).




The daily Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDA) for elemental magnesium are: Age 1-3 years, 80 mg; 4-8 years, 130 mg; 9-13 years, 240 mg; 14-18 years, 410 mg (boys) and 360 mg (girls); 19-30 years, 400 mg (men) and 310 mg (women); 31 years and older, 420 mg (men) and 320 mg (women). For pregnant women age 14-18 years, the RDA is 400 mg; 19-30 years, 350 mg; 31-50 years, 360 mg. For lactating women age 14-18 years, the RDA is 360 mg; 19-30 years, 310 mg; 31-50 years, 320 mg. For infants less than one year of age, adequate intake (AI) levels are 30 mg from birth to 6 months and 75 mg from 7 to 12 months. The daily upper intake level (UL) for magnesium is 65 mg for children age 1-3 years, 110 mg for 4-8 years, and 350 mg for anyone over 8 years old, including pregnant and breast-feeding women.

The trouble with RDA's is that they are based on averages and tend to be decades old. They are also not taking into consideration health problems hence there is some specific guidance on deficiency. But with anxiety, we will be burning through nutrients quicker anyway so we may need more. Meds also cause magnesium to leeched from the bones.

But there is something else to bare in mind, a big problem with magnesium supplementation - labelling! Think of Magnesium Citrate, say 500mg. So, at first glance you think you are getting 500mg of magnesium citrate. That's true BUT the level of magnesium you actually get is the Elemental Magnesium and the rest is citrate which has other uses in the body. In the UK there are no laws forcing them to declare this, according SADNoMore there are in Canada hence they can check just by using the label what they will be getting. So, for all you know you could be getting 1mg of magnesium and 499mg of citrate!

Another example is an amino acid bound (chelated) magnesium form, such as Magnesium Taurate. All this means is that the magnesium has been bound to an amino acid. The reason being the body struggles to digest salts but easily digests amino acids. (so remember, you can't 100% digest anything and that includes that Elemental Magnesium) This way it is more bioavailable. There is also an additional effect in that the magnesium may be transported where the amino acid is going and this can mean the brain BUT magnesium taurate is made up of Magnesium + Taurine (an amino acid) and taurine is used throughout the body for many reasons so you can't guarantee where the magnesium may be going because of chelation alone. I've seen magnesium taurate products with 450mg of Taurine in and a miniscule 50mg of Magnesium - so a product like that is aimed at someone who really wants the taurine effects. Taurine is a precursor of GABA, an inhibitory neurotransmitter and the one the Benzo's impact on. However, remember you can't guarantee where taurine is going.

The level of Elemental Magnesium can usually be found online somewhere as there is an atom weight for them. If my memory is correct, the atomic weight explains the % of magnesium but I'll add some links from people who know more about this stuff shortly.

So, beware the traps with magnesium. People could be taking 500mg thinking they are getting above the RDA when in reality they are nowhere near...and then they say 'magnesium hasn't helped' but did they really even use enough and did they know why? I bet they didn't.

There are some other things to remember too with magnesium supplements. For instance, Magnesium Citrate is really for constipation so once you go over a certain mg per day you will be legging it to the toilet. Magnesium Oxide is a very cheap form found in supermarkets and the minute this hits the water in your stomach it turns into another form of magnesium, Magnesium Hydroxide...also known as Milk of Magnesia. That's aimed at GI issues too.

So, that's two forms that really are aimed at working on GI/bowel issues so why would they be helping with anxiety?

Some forms like Magnesium Glycinate will carry similar complications to the taurate version as these can affect the Glycine neurotransmitter in the brain but them this is also a common amino acid and will be used all over.

So, it can be a complicated affair and it doesn't surprise me so many people don't find it helps because either you end up lucky or have done the research to target the right one.

---------- Post added at 05:49 ---------- Previous post was at 05:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandie View Post
I take magnesium supplements as well as magnesium salts in my bath. I think it does help but only if you take the correct amount - which can seem quite high.

MyNameIsTerry is very knowledgeable about what constitutes the correct amount and I think he also takes and is a fan of magnesium.
Thanks sandie.

I take Magnesium Chloride, or rather I spray it on as I use it in oil form. This is supposed to be more bioavailable as the skin can absorb much better than we can digest. Digestion is impacted by the foods we eat so we can be poorer than people who eat clean e.g. processed foods mess up digestion.

I can't say I've found anxiety relief in magnesium yet but I can definitely say it has helped me with muscle soreness, aching joints and sciatica. It took time to work but after a month or two the benefits were clear and when I use it since I can feel the difference.

The reason I say it hasn't helped with anxiety yet is because I know I am a still deficient. Spraying on magnesium causes the skin to sting if you spray it on a deficient area and even now I get this on some days which suggests I haven't corrected any deficiency enough - hence I can't expect it to be working on my anxiety too.

I've bought an oral version to go with this which is more bioavailable - ionic magnesium also known as Angstrom magnesium (Angstrom measurement). This is supposed to be so small that it can more easily penetrate cells hence not relying on digestion. I think it starts in the mouth while you drink it but I couldn't be sure on that, I'm sure I read that somewhere when reading about these small forms. It's not as cheap though.

[Catherine S]

Cool, thank you Sandie x

[Lord Choc Ice]

Lord Choc Ice - I believe that if the oil stings when it is applied, it is a clear indicator that the oil id doing its job and that the body is seriously deficient in magnesium.

As to how much is the appropriate amount for each individual. Again, I have read that most people in the UK are seriously deficient because we eat nowhere near sufficient of the foods which contain magnesium. The UK RDA values in this country are very much out of date and have always erred dramatically on the safe side. I was reading online just a few weeks ago that the RDAs of most vits, minerals etc, were about to be overhauled to reflect a more accurate and realistic requirement, especially as there is growing evidence of the UK diet not containing anywhere near the amounts a body needs.

Well I was seriously deficient because it really stung . They do state on their website that it can be diluted 50:50 with water. I've been using it for a couple of years now and no longer need to dilute it.

[Brian123]

I did read this from the Holland and Barrett site

It is normal to feel a slight tingling sensation upon initial use. This is harmless and will disappear as your magnesium levels improve.

Did you find it helped with anything Lord choc ice?

[Beckybecks]

Can anyone recommend a specific brand that's reliable and a recommended dose?

I've just looked at the ones I'm taking. They are Holland and Barrett Magnesium Citrate 100mg, take one three times a day. But now I wonder just how much magnesium I'm actually getting. Probably not enough.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Can anyone recommend a specific brand that's reliable and a recommended dose?

I've just looked at the ones I'm taking. They are Holland and Barrett Magnesium Citrate 100mg, take one three times a day. But now I wonder just how much magnesium I'm actually getting. Probably not enough.

Magnesium Citrate is a salt form. So, to work out how much magnesium you are actually getting per 100mg you have to look up the molecular weight (Google, Wiki, etc).

Magnesium Citrate = 214.41
Magnesium = 24.31

Then you work out the %. So, (100/214.41)*24.31 = 11.24%.

So, for every 100mg of magnesium citrate you get 11.24% of "elemental magnesium" and 88.66% of citrate. Or 11.24mg of elemental magnesium.

This is the problem with these supplements.

Here is a check of my above calc:

Wiki

Magnesium citrate is a magnesium preparation in salt form with citric acid in a 1:1 ratio (1 magnesium atom per citrate molecule). The name "magnesium citrate" is ambiguous and sometimes may refer to other salts such as trimagnesium citrate which has a magnesium:citrate ratio of 3:2.

Magnesium citrate is used medicinally as a saline laxative and to completely empty the bowel prior to a major surgery or colonoscopy. It is available without a prescription, both as a generic and under various brand names including Citromag and Citroma. It is also used in the pill form as a magnesium dietary supplement. It contains 11.23% magnesium by weight.


I rounded up in the normal statistical manner.

How complicated is magnesium?

So, now look at your 100mg supplement. It's probably this one:

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/sho...100mg-60006390

It quite clearly says it is 100mg of magnesium citrate. But the nutritional value shows magnesium (not magnesium citrate) of 300mg (3 x 1 a day) to get 80% of the NRV. How, do they come to that? Is the label on the front wrong or the label on the back? They can't both be 100mg since that would defy the molecular weight???

Here is another example to compare to this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Natures-Own-...nesium+citrate

Can you see how it says 500mg magnesium citrate delivering 80mg of elemental magnesium? That's a little higher than my calc but not far off. It says the same on the label on the back.

Many of these supplements say the same on the front as the back in terms of mg. So, if that's "elemental magnesium", where is the citrate? If 500mg on the front & back meant elemental magnesium then the citrate would need to be on top of this, typically that 88.66% so that would make the capsule quite large surely? But is it?

Are we being misled over all this? Are we taking these things and finding they don't work but don't realise how little we are actually getting?

---------- Post added at 07:22 ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 ----------

I have copied and pasted from another thread (I hope Terry does not mind).

Of course not, sandie. I would have been copying it over anyway to save re-typing all this stuff. I've put a load of it on this thread which I copy from:

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=176849

At some point I shall have to write this stuff up, it's just a minefield and I'm still learning myself. There is a thread in that one on another forum and the guy on their seems to know his stuff.

People need to consider the form too. Citrate is for use as a laxative so if you go over the "bowel tolerance" level, you will have the runs. Adjust below it again and it goes away. It's a very common form seen in shops. Oxide is even more common and it's not very bioavailable at all, basically a waste of money.

[Lord Choc Ice]

I did read this from the Holland and Barrett site

It is normal to feel a slight tingling sensation upon initial use. This is harmless and will disappear as your magnesium levels improve.

Did you find it helped with anything Lord choc ice?

Hi Brian, yes it was helpful. I have neuropathy and I find that spraying it on my feet really helps . My legs and hands have improved a lot since using this and I don't have to take any prescription medication for the pain.

(I was taking chelated Magnesium at one point but that was not so helpful and as stated above too much can lead to diarrhoea ).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Magnesiu...s=books&sr=1-1

[Beckybecks]

I never realized that magnesium could be so complicated!

I don't want to take a pill every day if it's doing absolutely nothing for me.

From what I've read on this forum we probably need in excess of 400mg.

I don't know if it's allowed, but if possible, can someone recommend a particular brand that's trustworthy. And also quite high because what I'm taking at the moment is only 100mg and I would have to take a lot for it to have any effect.

Also now that MyNameIsTerry has pointed out that magnesium citrate has a laxative effect, well I definitely don't need that.

So what is the best type to use and what is considered to be a trusted brand in this country?

[Brian123]

I never realized that magnesium could be so complicated!

I don't want to take a pill every day if it's doing absolutely nothing for me.

From what I've read on this forum we probably need in excess of 400mg.

I don't know if it's allowed, but if possible, can someone recommend a particular brand that's trustworthy. And also quite high because what I'm taking at the moment is only 100mg and I would have to take a lot for it to have any effect.

Also now that MyNameIsTerry has pointed out that magnesium citrate has a laxative effect, well I definitely don't need that.

So what is the best type to use and what is considered to be a trusted brand in this country?

any suggestions on this? I was wondering too!