View Full Version : not what i wanted to hear
Im really p-ssed off at the moment,
I went to my cbt today and my therapist told me I need to work hard on my anxiety because it could in the future cause heart problems and immune system problems.
Well ive been in a right mood since going there and then to make things worse i looked it up on the internet and found one study saying panic can cause heart attack.
I really need to know the truth "NOW" ,
can any one please tell me the truth.........im feeling desperate to know:(
mirryx
Keitharcher
15-05-06, 19:48
Mirry
Whoa you are in a panic arent you, I looked it up as well and it appears that panic can cause heart attacks in very extreme circumstances and only then if the patient has a bad heart condition. A lot of if's you migght notice, therefore its safe to assume that panic attacks will not adversely affect your heart
Keith
Oh dear, sounds like the CBT hit the wrong button. Calm down, if you get to uptight you might have a panic attack, and that will feel like a heart attack and you will be so scared that you will have all the pains everywhere, especially down your arm and across your chest........
NOW take a deap breath, and think as logically as you can, getting very worked up and anxious will not help and that could cause a slight increase in your chances, but we all have to be rational, and try to look on a bright side. Have a laugh, ask your CBT next time you see her if she has ever had a panic attack and get her to describe it to you, I did with mine and she told me such utter drivel, I got on far better with her after that I knew she had never actually had one.[:o)]
there's a place that I dream of when I sleep, so peaceful, so quite, I call it mother earth.
scoobygirl2005
15-05-06, 19:49
Aw Mirry mate. Poor you. You scared me now saying that! lol. Why don't you ask your doctor about it? Cos you said it was the therapist that said that, go to your doctor and ask them instead. Hope this helps.
Scooby2005
x x
thanks for the reply keith,
Ive had ecg done and it was ok but i do worry cos heart problems are strong in my family - my cousin had his first heart attack aged 31 and is now awaiting a new heart and my other 2 girl cousins have had heart attacks in there 30s and my nan had a hole in her heart and angina and my grandad had heart attack and died young.
What report did you read about this and was it a reliable source ?
mirryx
thanks everyone for the reassurance, i was so shocked at what he said i felt too scared to ask any more questions about it.
I have to go back to him on Thursday and ive decided im going to have it out with him on this cos hes made me ill.
(I think i do have health anxiety from the way ive reacted to this) .:(
On a positive note I did drive the car down 2 long roads with him:D
mirryx
That was a pretty stupid thing for your therapist to say really. Especially since the chances of your anxiety increasing your risk to heart problems is tiny, if not non existant.
I would imagine that this was maybe his way of trying to scare you into more enthusiasm for your CBT practice.
'Security is mostly superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding Danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.'
thanks micro, im starting to calm down cos i must admit out of all us panic sufferers on here ive never heard anyone post saying i had a heart attack last week cos i had a panic attack lol.:D
mirryx
Hi Mirry,
I don't think anyone has died or got ill just from a panic attack. If it did affect someones heart it would be because they already had a heart condition I would think. I once asked my cardiologist if anxiety/panic affects the heart and he said no it doesn't. Hope that helps.
Lisa
Hi Mirry
From what I've read it only occurs in people who have existing heart conditions
Phill
Don't believe everything you think.
wobily_lin
16-05-06, 05:52
Hi Mirry,
Aww sorry to hear this. Yes we do panic bout everything and I feel it was silly of your therapist to say this to you. I would have it out to. I did this myself about something my therapist said to me. She ended up apologising to me. Good cos I was in the right. lol.
I'm glad you have calmed down now. I'm sure you have nothing to worry about on that score anyways.
(((((((((((hugs to you)))))))))) As we know u are strong.
Take care of you. xxx
Lin,
xxx
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Im really p-ssed off at the moment,
I went to my cbt today and my therapist told me I need to work hard on my anxiety because it could in the future cause heart problems and immune system problems.
Well ive been in a right mood since going there and then to make things worse i looked it up on the internet and found one study saying panic can cause heart attack.
I really need to know the truth "NOW" ,
can any one please tell me the truth.........im feeling desperate to know:(
mirryx
<div align="right">Originally posted by mirry - 15 May 2006 : 20:34:55</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
The Therapist is at least right about one thing - lowered immune systems.
I would believe that the 'heart problems' issue has to do with someone who ALREADY has a heart problem
and/or
Heart problems which develop on their own or just as we get older.
Problem #2: Reading stuff on the internet.
My heart has undergone into 2-3 full scale panic attacks a day at the worst times.
Follow that by years of 'high anxiety' racing, fluttering and beating.
I have been into tests twice now and my heart registers absolutely perfect with 'ideal blood pressure'.
The Doc says my blood pressure literally cannot be better in a human lol.
The point is - you need to have or develop heart problems as something else first.
If you are 75 and have a weak ticker and ALSO have a series of panic attacks then sure.. then that might be bad.
So would intense lovemaking or trying to run really fast or anything else that would do it.
Last year i had my colesterol done and it was exactly a 3.00 ,
they said it was the lowest score they had ever taken and eskimos score a 3 cos they eat only fish lol.
But my blood pressure confuses me alot, last month it was very low
82/52 and this week its 130/92 which is slightly high.......
I dont understand how it all works, do you ned to have high blood pressure constantly to cause damage (does anyone know?)
mirryx
Hi mirry,
high blood pressure isnt diagnosed until you have a few consecutively high readings. Anxiety can push your blood pressure up temporarily but it usually settles again (for example many people have 'white coat high blood pressure' where their bp goes up in response to a doctor or nurse recording it- anxiety- but settles if left a little while before rechecking). My BPs been all over the place recently too...not helped by the fact that I really need to lose weight, do some excercise and stop stressing lol!!
Hope this helps.
take care
Coni X
I think you are right on Coni
The funny thing is that I while hooked up to the machine - I had been laying down relaxing, nearly sleeping and when the Doc suddenly threw aside the curtain and rushed in .. he laughed later saying that my blood pressure shot up as he walked in and saw the monitor spike.
Anyways, as the strict rule panic attacks do NOT cause damage to your heart.
This is according to my GPs and any comprehensive source Ive read on this (not counting internet gossip) has panic attacks actualy giving your heart exercise.
I think something we all need to keep in mind is that people get health problems.
We can also exercise and eat right and solve them with doctors help.
Ok.
When you are a worrier, panic attacker and anxiety type its our bad habit to say 'aHA.. I knew it.. what if its the anxiety.. what if i can stop panicking.. .what if it gets worse.. what if i go mentaly insane.. what if what if what if..."
We need to stop it.
We can and will have a body and need to improve it and that is NOT because you ALSO have anxiety.
am I way off here?
Paddington
16-05-06, 10:42
ooh mirry,i am seething on your behalf!!Ruddy therapists,councelors..whoever!If they go into this field it is their duty to know the facts and how throw away comments can send us soaring out of control![by the way i thnk JayK is right,thank god 4 the voice of reason hey!]i went to a councellor and told her about my child abuse had she said'thatmust have made you feel special i would imagine' mmmm,spot on there????I never went again!Ihave had bad experiences with these so called experts mirry,once i rang samaritans and told a chap about how i was seduced by our 24 year old lodger[i was twelve] and he called me 'a little lolita],never rang them agian either!!That's why i love this forum,we ARE the experts and can councel each other upto a pint [mean point,but a pint sounds good too!!ha ha ha] i think so any way.I think you are right to confront him too,let us know how it goes,and try not too worry.lots of love mary-rose.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
we are all in the same boat and can guide each other ashore
Hi Mirry,
I think the comments made by the therapist show a lack of intimate knowledge of this disorder personally. If there was one statement that you could make to a health anxiety sufferer to make them panic then that would be it!! Quite bizarre. [?]
Anyway, the reason I posted.....
Last year I attended the lecture given by Prof Paul Salkovski (who is a leader in this field) at the National Anxiety Conference in London. He works at the Maudsley hospital and did the House Of Obsessive / Compulsives TV programme. His team conducted a study into the mortality rates of health anxiety sufferers against a control group. They found that the anxiety sufferers showed no difference. In fact they actually showed about 2 years extra over the control, but essentially he showed it as proof of no difference.
I hope this helps. This is my trigger by the way so I know how much of a nightmare that must have been for you.
Cheers,
Trev :D
Hi Mirry
well thats a bit harsh!! they obviously havent experienced anxiety.
I have heard similar too but I believe it can be due to breathing
http://www.pe2000.com/breathe.htm on this site it mentions it. Calmer breathing helps your immune system. Scarey but true. Its worth whils reading and thinking about your breathing and stuff, it might be the kick up the but we need. xx
Keitharcher
16-05-06, 19:47
Mirry
First my sources was the lancet, so I think that it could be reliable. I know its hard but try and stop worrying, just because the family has a history of heart condition doesnt mean you will have it. Blood pressure is important when its consistantly to low or consistantly to high, Blood pressure does fluctate in all normal people, when you ahve exercised or done some hard physical work it rises. Therefore its nothing to worry about. Your choleseral is fine, therefore you have eliminated one possible cause of artery furring which restricts blood flow through the heart. It sounds to me like you have nothing to worry about on those scores, just keep having regular check ups, if the blood pressure does go to high, (weight can be a significany factor in that) then the doc will prescribe something like ramiprill (im trying to get him to take me off them, (I had high BP). It sounds to me like your CBT therapist is using hammers to crack eggs, tell him that his style is causing you to worry that leads to PA's he should be there to help not hinder
Keith
Keith I am 5lb into the overweight range (not major) but am trying to loose some to get into my ideal range. I am excersizing 3 times a week and eating healthy.
I just spoke to my friend who is practise nurse in a doctors sugery and she told me you have to look at all your risk factors.....
is your colestol high ?
are you diabetic ?
do you smoke ?
are you over weight ?
do you drink ?
have a history of family heart disease ? (must be mother/father/sibling)
suffer anxiety ?
so basically i have one risk factor which is not proven to be a factor anyhow.:D
mirryx
Hi again mirry
You say suffering anxiety?? This was something I was terrefied of, my mother has had 5 heart attacks!! My anxiety get going on this alot, my doctor has been very, very supportive. Obviously all theses factors will effect your heart BUT the anxiety bit will really affect your heart if you had all of the factors before
is your colestol high ?
are you diabetic ?
do you smoke ?
are you over weight ?
do you drink ?
have a history of family heart disease ? (must be mother/father/sibling)
suffer anxiety ?
Smoking was a big factor for my mothers heat attacks, I dont smoke :) never have. Your heart is extreamlly powerfull it can put up with anxiety symptoms but when you add the bad factors into it, it weakens it.
your doing great with the excercise and stuff, do you smoke?
Hi Kimmy,
No i dont smoke, never have.
I think your right ,your life style is very important to protect yourself and if you are doing all the right things then you shouldnt have to worry.
Infact i bet we all know lots of people who do all the wrong things and are still ok.
mirryx
Hi Mirry
I agree with Mico & Mary on this, i can't believe your CBT Counsellor said that to you. What silly man indeed. I can certainly understand your upset about it.
Hope your feeling alot calmer now.
Thinking of you
Take Care
Alex
Alex
Many People Will Walk
In & Out Of Your Life
But Only True Friends
Will Leave Footprints
In Your Heart
exactly hun.
Smoking and excessive weight, drinking are the main triggers for heart problems. Your probably very healthy, ok maybe not able to run a marathon (well I cant) ANYWAYS i bet if you went for a health check youd be perfect!!!!
Chin up xx pm anytime
thanks everone, im going to see him tommorow and will let you all know what he says;)
mirryx
marie ross
17-05-06, 17:29
Hi Mirry
Hope you get everthing sorted out, what a stupid thing to say to you, i would of freaked out there and then with fear!!!
Sounds like i'm just about done in anyway (smoker/drinker)!!!!! I'll have to start doing something about this!!!!
Take care.
Marie XXXX
Keitharcher
17-05-06, 19:51
Hi Mirry
you said you have one factor that maybe a risk, does that allay your fears it should, you are worrying about things that are very unlikely to happen. So see that bloody therapist and tell im to stop putting the fear of god into you
Keith
lol keith, I will tell him with a firm attitude ![}:)]
mirryx
Today i ased my therapist about this and he said ......
If we have a life time of stress then this can infact cause heart disease,
so i asked him is this if you already have other factors
ie: weight /smoke/bp/drink
he answered absolutely.
Im not so worried now:D lol.
He took me into town and i did really well and stood in a que and purchased things. I had some slight panic but once again reminded myself that its just the fight or flight im scared of NOT the shop;)
My cbt confirmed to me thats all it is, fear of the fear!
mirryx
Interesting.
I think I have figured out what your therapist was reporting.
I just happened to catch an episode of 'Health on the Line' which is a panel discussion programme.
It featured one panel member who was a successful businessman who had suffered from panic attacks (severely too) and eventually had a heart attack playing tennis.
Along with him was a head of a Canadian psych org (cant recall name).
Anyways.. what they explained went like this - If you are having a lot of stress and anxiety this can lead to things like 'loss of appetite', weight loss, lack of proper sleep.
This along with the constant strain of Anxiety and then Depression hormones going UP and DOWN and roller coastering along can lead to a lowered Immune System.
(boy.. this is what happened to me this year)
Ok.. what he was actually saying was that with a lowered Immune System getting battered by every little disease that comes along - you 'could' start getting into trouble with more serious long term illnesses.
Heart disease being one of them.
So, I can understand why your therapist repeated this sort of theory to you.
But
Now that Ive heard it explained its not exactly saying 'Panic Attack can cause a Heart attack'.
Not at all.
Actually.. the Doc on this program was talking about lowered Immune as the danger.
He never said a thing about the actual Panic attack itself.
Back to our businessman - he described becoming very angry and intense playing tennis.
He joked that even as he was having the heart attack he was furious to 'beat this guy'.
But
He already has a weak heart at this point.. so there is where his 'panic attack and anxiety' could push it over the edge.
Its not the 'racing heart' itself that just 'makes it happen' per se.
And again.. it can be a full on 'anger attack' but it could have also been accelerating the heart from the Tennis
or
Making love to a much younger woman (classic movie reference hehe)
Or
Deciding to board the theme parks 'most terrifying ride ever'.
I will try and hunt down the actual report on lowered Immune and the risk of heart attacks if I can find that website.
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