View Full Version : State of the NHS!
xBettyBoopx
14-11-11, 19:56
I have complained in the past because I couldn't get DLA but read the following story and you'll know why some people find it hard to receive this benefit.
The way this woman has been treated is disgusting and goes to prove the state that the benefits system is in.
http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/news/ipswich_woman_s_fury_at_loss_of_mobility_support_1 _1124587
Els
Is this the result of an ATOS assessment?..I'd really like to know???
Our 'DAVE' (Cameron) is behind this despicable treatment of the sick and disabled...the Nazi's (Adolf Hitler) persecuted those unable to take care of themselves.
Today I was told by a hospital consultant I could lose my right leg...where would that leave me with my DLA?
:wall:
You're right! It's the fault of the government.
---------- Post added at 21:56 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------
OMG! I've just read the comments some of the people have made on this story in paper and I have to say I find them really offensive. I wonder if they had to spend a day in a wheelchair they would still be saying the same. Some people!:mad:
HarvestMoon
14-11-11, 22:53
My partner gets DLA. When she reapplied last year they took her off it, without even seeing her and even though nothing had changed. She appealed and surprise surprise she's got it back, again without being seen. Heard loads of stories like this. They, the government, are on a mission to get numbers down. There actually might be some merit in what they are trying to do but its being done in a very heavy handed way and, as usual, some innocent and vulnerable people suffer.
---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------
...although I'm not sure why the thread is titled 'State of the NHS'.
macc noodle
14-11-11, 23:23
Actually I think you may find that these "reforms" were already in place under the Labour Govt and the targets to reduce the number of claimants already well under way.
Whether we like it or not, there are too many people working the system and putting it under too much pressure with false dla claims when they are perfectly capable of work and, sadly, the easy option is to claim mental health problems. (Those that claim falsely on this should walk a day in the shoes of someone with genuine mental health illness).
Whilst I agree that the system to weed out these false claims is not perfect, they have to start somewhere and people have to realise that they cannot rely on the handouts if they are not entitled to them.
Those who are entitled by whatever criteria is set, be it from a successful appeal of a fit to work decision, or by originally being assessed as not being fit to work, will continue to receive their benefits.
It would appear that those who have been assessed by ATOS as fit for work are generally successful on appeal, especially those with mental health issues.
I know it is a hassle for the genuine claimant but good luck to all of you having to deal with this and just trust that the evidence of your GPs and CPNs or mental health teams will be sufficient to prove your cases as I am sure that they will.
Macc Noodle
xx
eight days a week
15-11-11, 00:28
I haven't read the article but agree it seems to be a very misleading thread title!
Actually I think you may find that these "reforms" were already in place under the Labour Govt and the targets to reduce the number of claimants already well under way.
Very true, but the new government has done nothing to stem the downward spiral that was already in place.
Whilst I agree that the system to weed out these false claims is not perfect, they have to start somewhere and people have to realise that they cannot rely on the handouts if they are not entitled to them.
Those who are entitled by whatever criteria is set, be it from a successful appeal of a fit to work decision, or by originally being assessed as not being fit to work, will continue to receive their benefits.
My view on your first paragraph is, it's not 'not perfect' - the system is broken in my considered opinion.
With regards to your second, those with true mental health problems that mean they cannot work are least likely to feel able to contest or face the appeal procedure.
I believe from my own personal experience Atos failed me at the assessment as a mental health sufferer simply because they didn't expect me to fight my way to the tribunal.
I did (still don't know how I managed it) and I won.
This was a home medical by the way, because at that point I was only able to leave my flat once a week or so for a few minutes at a time. And, despite the letter from my GP saying that, I was given ZERO points on my initial assessment.
I know it is a hassle for the genuine claimant but good luck to all of you having to deal with this and just trust that the evidence of your GPs and CPNs or mental health teams will be sufficient to prove your cases as I am sure that they will.
Macc Noodle
xx
So you are not having to deal with this yourself I take it ?
If that is the case you are not qualified to make any kind of comment or 'assessment' ...pun intended...sorry...:mad:
HypnosWisher
15-11-11, 08:44
Not sure why this is titled 'State of the NHS'
I was appalled by the comments on the story itself and disgusted to call the posters human.
They miss the point of DLA. It is to 'help' people with disabilities and this woman is disabled. The comments by posters suggesting 'pay her way' I think I am right in assuming these people do not pay for 'help' with disabilities in their lives and have no idea or grasp to the extra costs required for 'disabled' people to carry out everyday activities.
Again the Government putting pressure on DWP and GP's to reduce costs as the expense of health. Disgusting.
Actually I think you may find that these "reforms" were already in place under the Labour Govt and the targets to reduce the number of claimants already well under way.
Whether we like it or not, there are too many people working the system and putting it under too much pressure with false dla claims when they are perfectly capable of work and, sadly, the easy option is to claim mental health problems. (Those that claim falsely on this should walk a day in the shoes of someone with genuine mental health illness).
Whilst I agree that the system to weed out these false claims is not perfect, they have to start somewhere and people have to realise that they cannot rely on the handouts if they are not entitled to them.
Those who are entitled by whatever criteria is set, be it from a successful appeal of a fit to work decision, or by originally being assessed as not being fit to work, will continue to receive their benefits.
It would appear that those who have been assessed by ATOS as fit for work are generally successful on appeal, especially those with mental health issues.
I know it is a hassle for the genuine claimant but good luck to all of you having to deal with this and just trust that the evidence of your GPs and CPNs or mental health teams will be sufficient to prove your cases as I am sure that they will.
Macc Noodle
xx
I totally agree with every word Macc.
I don't understand either why certain members here are jumping down your throat, though I expected they would as it is a passionate subject.
Just because someone may not have been in this situation does not mean in any way that they are 'not qualified to make any kind of comment or 'assessment''
I also find the comparison of Hitler and the Nazis persecution of the infirm to unfair medical assessments completely over the top, and to be honest, I am sure that would be highly offensive to anyone affected by those horrendous events in WW2.
IMO, to compare that to this is ludicrous.
In fact, if they are a UK tax payer, or have been which I know macc has, they have EVERY right to comment.
Whether people have had a difficult time with genuine claiming or not - which I completely sympathise with, as they are the ones being punished and suffering terribly for the false claims of many workshy layabouts - something needed to be done to at least partly stem the money bleeding from the welfare state and going into the pockets of a bunch of fakers.
I think it is quite rude to tell someone they have no right to an opinion on this just because you seem to be bitter about personal experiences.
I think you made a valid point Macc.xx:hugs:
Incidentally, I also don't understand why the NHS is mentioned in the title. They have zilch to do with this.
http://victimsofatoscorruption.wordpress.com/tag/the-nazis/
HypnosWisher
15-11-11, 13:27
What in the blue hell has Nazi's got to do with disability??
http://victimsofatoscorruption.wordpress.com/tag/the-nazis/
This demonstrates nothing but a ridiclulous militant rant Bruno58.
The Nazis wanted to rid the world of infirm/physically or mentally disabled/mentally ill - or in their eyes 'imperfect' - people who did not measure up to their disgusting ideal, that being the superhuman Aryan.
Anyone who seriously compares that to these government reforms needs help.
I agree with you Macc, and on that note I bow out of this particular thread.
What in the blue hell has Nazi's got to do with disability??
Consider the ideology behind T. blair's Welfare Reform (continued by the current Government) and Germany 1933, it might not worry you but it does me..and many others.
That's all I'm asking....
J.
---------- Post added at 18:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------
This demonstrates nothing but a ridiclulous militant rant Bruno58.
The Nazis wanted to rid the world of infirm/physically or mentally disabled/mentally ill - or in their eyes 'imperfect' - people who did not measure up to their disgusting ideal, that being the superhuman Aryan.
Anyone who seriously compares that to these government reforms needs help.
I agree with you Macc, and on that note I bow out of this particular thread.
debs71, don't be silly! I am neither militant or political...!
I am trying to protect my seriously ill wife from the dubious methods employed by ATOS and aided by the Government...If you can't see that then I am sorry but you should not post about situations you cannot understand.
John.
You misunderstood what I said 'John' clearly.
When I made reference to 'militant' I was referring to the link and NOT yourself. Since you made no post except that link one assumes you agree with its sentiment though!
I don't doubt for a second your worry about your wife, nobody would. My point was simply to say that IMO comparing Nazi persecution with unfair welfare reforms is distasteful
'...if you can't see THAT' then that is a shame.
To tell me I don't understand is frankly a kick in the teeth.
I have been ill with depression/anxiety/panic for nearly the past 8 years (as have many others here) and have had to turn to the welfare state, though I don't want to, and I have had to justify my claim every 5 minutes since. Nobody is immune.
Clearly you didn't bother to find that out when declaring I shouldn't be 'posting about situations I don't understand.
I understand it well and good thanks and don't need to be patronised.
Turning on people for having a differing opinion from yours is childish. A forum is made up of ALL opinion, and to say what you said to Macc is just as rude as you telling me to keep my opinion to myself.
If you don't like opinion, don't join a forum.
macc noodle
15-11-11, 20:35
Here we go again with certain users of this site having the temerity to rubbish other people's views since they do not tally with theirs.
John - you may well feel that I have not got a right to post a comment here but I do as a member of this site, I am entitled to express my opinioin, and equally by what measure have you decided that I have no experience of ATOS and their methodologies???
And your comments to Debs about her post were unwarranted and unfair.
NMP exists as a forum for people to make and invite comment and support from fellow users - my comment was an overview as I understand it and my support offered to all those struggling with the system as it is.
John perhaps this forum is not the place for you to vent your spleen against what you see as your wife's struggle for her right to receive payments for her illness and to be so offensive to those of us on here who were only offering support to the original comment posted is crass and petty.
Macc Noodle
debs, clearly we are mis-understanding each other just about every other sentence!...its a shame because I think if we met in real life it would be quite the opposite, its like text messaging...its easy to give the wrong impression...yes I do worry about my wife, she is dying and is unable to cope without me here or very close by.
I am sorry if I have overstepped the mark but life is tough now and the stress is not easy to cope with, I know I can overreact but i've been made hard by the situation...
You are right...I will close my account on the forum as it doesn't do anyone any good...
HypnosWisher
15-11-11, 21:18
Bruno,
Comparing Nazi rule to the current and past governments is somewhat extreme and I am not sure as to how you came to that conclusion.
I admit that the welfare system and DLA are 'weak' in area's, but it is not just the government that need to be held accountable but the individuals that seek to de-fraud the country and genuine cases for their own greed. They should be the ones that should be ashamed and should be publically shamed as well as jailed!
yvonne_uk_98
16-11-11, 00:04
I have read each statement, I agree with each one of you in what your saying. you would need to do a lot of research into understanding where one brings in the Nazi's, though there is a lot of truth in it all. I've done my research and knew from a good few years ago. I could go on, however I'm not going to. one word fits it all. do the research if you really want to know. though might be too late to get that info. or there might be time to get that info. that article I read it, and I left a comment last night. however my comment was not shown, as I put the truth in. those people who commented, I dont think they know about how much you pay towards the mobility car out of your dla. almost pay the full dla for the car, so you get it in one hand and taken off you from the next hand. not everyone gets full mobility, it's really hard to get full mobility. it's not easy.
Dla has been done away with, the new name is personal payment plan. when it all comes into place, we be going through what that lady is going through. hard times ahead. I hope she appeals and gets her car back.
I have picked this statement out of the rubbish above..
..QUOTE
I know it is a hassle for the genuine claimant but good luck to all of you having to deal with this and just trust that the evidence of your GPs and CPNs or mental health teams will be sufficient to prove your cases as I am sure that they will.
Macc Noodle
UNQUOTE..
This statement reveals exactly the problem with 'OPINIONS'... everyone has one...and in this particular example its 'living in cloud cuckoo land'...
So its OK for my Government financial support to be cut off or reduced for months on end while some civil servant gets around to my appeal...in the meantime my wife has to starve as well as try to tollerate the pain of cancer...you really need a reality check:mad::mad::mad:
I will refrain from making any further comment on this forum except to say...**** ***
JOHN.:mad:
nomorepanic
16-11-11, 21:31
John - there is no need to be rude as I am sure people can work out what that 4 letters followed by 3 letters means (well I can think of two things at least).
We all have our problems with the benefit system - ill or not - so these subjects are best not discussed to be honest as these threads always end like this and cause upset.
John - there is no need to be rude as I am sure people can work out what that 4 letters followed by 3 letters means (well I can think of two things at least).
We all have our problems with the benefit system - ill or not - so these subjects are best not discussed to be honest as these threads always end like this and cause upset.
I instruct you to remove my account from this forum:mad:
xBettyBoopx
16-11-11, 21:46
Well, I'm sorry to ev1 who is struggling financially because of having dla or incap benefit refused or taken away. My post was to highlight the problems with the system.
There will always be arguements in life whether face to face or on a forum, because we are human. But if you feel this thread is doing no good then plz feel free Nic to close it.
Els
nomorepanic
16-11-11, 22:45
John - you do not need to leave at all. I just asked you not to say such things to members as it is not nice really.
macc noodle
16-11-11, 23:27
I have picked this statement out of the rubbish above..
..QUOTE
I know it is a hassle for the genuine claimant but good luck to all of you having to deal with this and just trust that the evidence of your GPs and CPNs or mental health teams will be sufficient to prove your cases as I am sure that they will.
Macc Noodle
UNQUOTE..
This statement reveals exactly the problem with 'OPINIONS'... everyone has one...and in this particular example its 'living in cloud cuckoo land'...
So its OK for my Government financial support to be cut off or reduced for months on end while some civil servant gets around to my appeal...in the meantime my wife has to starve as well as try to tollerate the pain of cancer...you really need a reality check:mad::mad::mad:
I will refrain from making any further comment on this forum except to say...**** ***
JOHN.:mad:
What an offensive man you really are John and how dare you be so blatant in your offensiveness.
Once again, my post was not intended as a slur or a direct offensive to anyone suffering from the aggravation of having to deal wth dla difficulties.
I do not need a reality check John at all - I am more than well aware of the difficulties of people dying with cancer from first hand experience and I am very sorry indeed for what your wife is suffering and clearly if she is terminal then there should not have been any question of her payments being withdrawn.
But, why pick on me and my comments and vent your ire in my direction?
I have not stopped the payments to your wife and your nastiness and blatant rudeness to me will not alter the situation as I am not to blame.
I understand frustation and I understand anger at a situation you find yourself in with your wife's illness which is a dreadful thing for anyone to have to go through but that does not excuse your tone and approach to people on here.
Well, I'm sorry to ev1 who is struggling financially because of having dla or incap benefit refused or taken away. My post was to highlight the problems with the system.
There will always be arguements in life whether face to face or on a forum, because we are human. But if you feel this thread is doing no good then plz feel free Nic to close it.
Els
I think your post was perfectly valid Elspeth. How could you possibly have known it would turn into a personal argument between people. I wouldn't worry about it. There clearly ARE problems with the system and you are well within your rights to highlight them on this forum, in my opinion, as a lot of users are affected by these changes in benefits. :)
macc noodle
16-11-11, 23:41
Haz
There is only one person who made this personal and I completely agree with Elspeth's post's validity.
Macc Noodle
HypnosWisher
17-11-11, 11:10
John,
I have to say that your outburst is nothing short of disgraceful. No-one here has said that you or your poor wife are not entitled to funding from the DLA or from benefits. Furthermore no-one has question the 'validity' of your claim to it either.
Your attacks are un-necessary. People are only expressing their frustration at the system and some have even been kind enough to provide their experiences with it too.
This is me actually being very diplomatic and very courteous towards you because on any other forum or any other day I wouldn't have held my tongue!
I instruct you to remove my account from this forum:mad:
Its not often I repeat myself.
nomorepanic
17-11-11, 18:57
Ok I will remove you as requested now.
I would just like to say ---- if someone has a disability and is a genuine case,there is no reason why they should not get DLA.of course it might depend on what other benifits----and savings you have
If you cannot get it and you think you should have it you can appeal against the decision.
Some may not agree with our NHS but they do their best for us even in the current climate
Well after reading this I just wanted to tell my story..
I have a child with aspergers.. and he has suffered for 7 years of his life. I told the nhs at the age of 2 he was different. No investigation they said he was ok.. his problems were only made visable when the school couldnt handle him.. and now I get DLA for him and I also home educate him whilst at univeristy.
My point is.. for for the first 7 years of his life we needed help with DLA.. I struggled daily to study as he was growing up and its only just been recognised that actually we need a lot of help especially if I was going onto do higher education!
So my point is.. that for those that cheat the system there is always ones that suffer out.. but hey ho thats life.. we all suffer in many different ways.
I am still confused as to why the NHS are being mentioned on this thread??
Is it not meant to be the DHSS??
The NHS do not have anything to do with decisions made pertaining to benefits.
The doctors that carry out these assessments are employed by ATOS healthcare, a private organisation.
I think this needs pointing out as this really isn't something where the NHS should be getting the blame, yet again, as they always do.:mad:
Im my case the nhs did turn me away therefore he could not be diagnosed with anything to recieve the help he needed.. so to be fair.. in my situation they failed to give help when needed :/
xBettyBoopx
18-11-11, 19:40
I am still confused as to why the NHS are being mentioned on this thread??
Is it not meant to be the DHSS??
The NHS do not have anything to do with decisions made pertaining to benefits.
The doctors that carry out these assessments are employed by ATOS healthcare, a private organisation.
I think this needs pointing out as this really isn't something where the NHS should be getting the blame, yet again, as they always do.:mad:
It's all the National 'Health' Service, and tbh I don't understand why you've even brought it up!:doh::doh: What it's called is neither here nor there, but the content that matters!
Els
It's all the National 'Health' Service, and tbh I don't understand why you've even brought it up!:doh::doh: What it's called is neither here nor there, but the content that matters!
Els
What are you talking about Elspeth???????
'It's all the National Health Service' ????
Your tone is so incredibly rude by the way. What is wrong with people on threads like this? You daren't mention a word in defiance of your complaints about the welfare state or else you get sheer rudeness back.
Anyone would think that you are the only people in Britain to be adversely affected or have bad experiences with support claims.
Some of us have been badly treated as well. We just don 't moan and take it out on other people.
Hope you feel better for that by the way.:mad:
nomorepanic
18-11-11, 21:04
I think maybe this thread has run its course now and is starting to cause arguments so let's just leave it be.
I couldn't agree more Nicola.:mad:
xBettyBoopx
18-11-11, 21:50
I don't even know where you're coming from Debs!
I'm entitled to an opinion just like everyone else, not everything is a disagreement, so much as a difference of opinion or just a statement, I suppose it's the way one takes it.
bottleblond
18-11-11, 22:12
I have to admit that i have had nothing but amazing care from the NHS and continue to do so.
We shall never all agree on the same issue as we are all different, we have all recieved different care and we all see things differently too.
Lets not argue about something we can't all agree on
Lisa
sunshine-lady
19-11-11, 00:06
What are all those numbers beneath your name Lisa? Is it your bank balance?:roflmao:
It's the number of complaints we have to deal with on a daily basis Sunshine...
BB is currently 654.21.16.20.15.85.18.5 complaints behind :lac:
Actually Elspeth as someone who works for the NHS I find your tone extremely distasteful. what it is called does matter it is where you are apportioning blame. It is the not the NHS making the decisions as to who is entitled to benefits.
Your whole attitude diminishes the work that we do; last weekend I spent my time helping a family while their family member was passing. You are entitled to your opinion but other members are entitled to counter it, thats why it is a forum?
I try to pass on this website to people I meet that are suffering, it is these sort of petty arguements that make me refrain from doing so.
Lynnann
macc noodle
19-11-11, 07:42
Lynann
What a wonderful job you do and thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Your post is absolutely on target as to why it matters what the title is and also why it is important to have respect for the opinions of others if you are using a forum to express your thoughts.
Resorting to rudeness and inappopriate comments without even really reading what other people who are commenting are actually saying is just not on.
Thanks you Lynnann for doing the job you do - I am sure that all the people you have helped are grateful for your dedication.
Love
Macc Noodle
xxxx
this thread is now closed to prevent arguments thanks
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