Horrible Daily Mail article on giving up on advanced cancer

[louise123_uk]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2100684/Why-doctors-like-die-endure-pain-treatment-advanced-cancer.html#comments

What a truly horrible article! Very depressing read to scare anyone surely! Personally I'd fight any illness with any treatment I could lay my hands on whatever the cost. There are always new advanced treatments abroad (UK is soo behnid times with cancer treatments anyways) what about having the chemo whilst looking at them or the NHS sorting itsefl out so it can afford new things like the cyber knife etc! Aso someone with HA and therefore scared of the ultimate consequence of illness (dying) I just do not believe in accepting that nothing can be done ever, I have personally told my family, I want to be kept alive by any means necessary as you even hear of patients thought to be brain dead suddenly pulling through no matter how rare, be it initial mis diagnosis (doctors sure dont know everything) or something clicking! It scares me to think docs would think like this, and not strive for every treatment poss, the NHS scares me right now :-( Britain has such a low success rate compared to other developed countries with cancer, why, why why?

[swanlinnet]

Hiya Louise

The media are great at putting people on edge. I'm certain they contrive to do it also. For that reason I have long since stopped buying or reading newspapers.

God knows how many people would that article have upset. Journalists are horrible people who would write anything just to seccure their paycheck.

Learn from this Louise ...stop putting your head into those newspapers. I'm sure you could derive benefit with your time in a better way than reading such gloom.

Best wishes, Vince :)

[Tish]

I caught the end of the Jeremy Vine show on radio 2 where they were discussing this article and it seems that most people agreed with the writer. I agree with him too but that's easy for me to say as I'm older and I've raised my family and lived my life. It's different if you have youngsters that you don't want to leave behind.
It's a personal choice at the end of the day and that's what the doctor is saying.. we should have that choice of suffering the treatment which won't cure you or spending your last days with acceptance.

[abel]

God knows how many people would that article have upset. Journalists are horrible people who would write anything just to seccure their paycheck.

Learn from this Louise ...stop putting your head into those newspapers. I'm sure you could derive benefit with your time in a better way than reading such gloom.http://www.amzcard.info/g.gif

[MargaretHale]

I thought he raised an interesting point. I read 'in the midst of life' by Jenny Worth (who wrote 'Call the Midwife') and he (on further investigation) was making a similar point.
We have 89, 90 odd year old people who die, being worked on with adrenaline and CPR/Defibrillators when at one time they would have been at home surrounded by loved ones.
My mum in law died from pancreatic cancer three years ago..she endured painful chemo, all because the specialist was too cowardly to tell her she was terminal. She died from the side effects of chemo in hospital alone.
Had she known the truth, I don't believe she would have even bothered with the chemo.
I think he wasn't trying to scare anyone, just to say that medicine isn't some 'cure all'-even in this day and age..

[miggymoggy]

Yea this is a very controversial subject, which I have changed my mind on since my mum got terminal cancer.
She always said she'd never have chemo, but we begged her so, against her better judgement and wishes, she agreed to have it.
She quickly fell ill, her immune system was so weakened by the chemo she got pneumonia and died within a week, when with just the cancer she's have lived around another 6 months.
I regret persuading her to have it now, should have abided by her wishes and, having seen what she went through, I would only have chemo if it would cure me, not just to buy me time.

[snowgoose]

I can see where the doctor is coming from a bit ........but this headline in bold type had me weeping for a long time regardless .
How can any one of us know what we as individuals would do until faced with the choice ?
It isnt black and white anyway .......treatment can be stopped if it becomes intolerable.
Cancer interventions are not always used to prolong life of little benefit either .
Some are to prevent the pain and suffering that would arise if untreated .
I got the impression from this article that he was saying he would be sitting in the garden clutching his glass of red and listening to the birds, pleased he had refused treatment . Lovely image but not realistic in my experience.
A dangerous thought which may sway someone facing treatment wrongly .
Hope is the one thing we all here cling onto .......as cancer folk also. without it life is sterile .

For some it is cure at all costs .others seeing the autumn leaves once again .
It narrows but HOPE must be maintained at all cost for the person involved with the decision when to say enough is enough

Their choice with complete truth from the oncologist ........and support and love from their family and gp .

my views only mind ........sorry for rabbiting :blush:

we need to be told if the chem/radio is for palliative purpose only I believe .....to stop nasty stuff developing if left untreated.
I am not going to post stuff here what happens if cancer is left and we refuse treatment .
articles like this do not say the difference between active treatment and palliative .......dangerous .
not being resuscitated is another story xxx

[macc noodle]

Personally I think that it was well written and his point of view fully executed and certainly gave food for thought.

However, the one thing it omitted to take into account is human spirit and will - who is to say what is right and what is wrong for the person standing on the edge of the precipice - it has to be their choice and theirs alone.

My father has a long term chronic condition which can only have one outcome but I would not want him to suffer irrevocably just to assuage my feelings of loss and fear at his demise. Indeed, it has already been discussed and agreed that he does not want to be resusitated in the late stages but wishes to be allowed to go peacefully and in as dignifed a way as possible.

But you simply cannot underestimate the human spirit and what is right for one person will not be right for another.

Would I want hope taken away from me if I were in that position ? Would I want to try absolutely everything and fight to the bitter end or, would I prefer to spend my time as peacefully as possible savouring every last moment rather than enduring rounds of treatment that are simply not going to do anything more than give me a small additional amount of time but probably increase my eventual suffering?

I do not know the answer and I do not think anyone does until it has to be seriously considered.

His views were well expressed and were intended to offer a debate to us all I think - it was stark and it was blunt but how many of us thought about it after reading it?

Hope is always a great comfort and thus it shall always remain irrespective of articles like this being written.

Macc Noodle.
xxxxx

[Stormsky]

I kind of agree with some of the doctors points, i mean if i was actually told i had terminal cancer, then like him, id go home and enjoy my time... whats the point in all that treatment for just a possible 2 more months... no thanks.....

[teez]

im in two camps here,,firstly ive had cancer and thanks to our local hospital im here to tell the tale,,when i had my cancer first diagnosed i wanted the lump removed and thats it,,didnt want either radio or chemo,,but my family peruaded me to give it a go,,i knew deep down they were right ,, i agreed to discuss it with the encology dept,, my encologist was the kidest gentlist person ive ever met,,i explained about my nerves,,im scared of everything incuding death ,,so was very torn,,but i listened agreed to try the treatments,,now they could have let me refuse the treatment ,save themselves a fortune in money and time,,as each week of the chemo i became really panicky and they took ages talking me round,,
for anyone reading that and frightened they will not recieve the best treatment put your fears to bed,,i was given every possible treatment,,even though ive other health issues so could easily be written off,
now for the other side ,,i do agree with a lot of what he says,,chemo is hard,,im still recovering 6 years on,,would i do it again no i think not,,radio maybe yes thats not too bad more scarey than painful,,... if i was terminal would i reject treatment,,if i wasnt a mum,,even though they are grown ups now,,id still do anything for another few days with my children including prolonging treatments,,alone with just myself to worry about,,no way, like the dr says id get drunk,,eat chocolate and do anything to make myself and my passing as easy as poss,,

[MandySlade]

I had a friend pass away from pancreatic cancer. The last few months of her life were spent in painful and miserable treatment. I don't know what I would do personally, but I don't think it's that terrible of an article. It's just blunt and honest. I believe the patient should be totally informed of the reality of the situation. If that person has a 5% chance of survival, they should know that, so they can make their own choices accordingly. The only thing that bothers me about the article is the possibility that doctors who feel this way, might start "going through the motions". Meaning, if they think it's all hopeless and futile, they may stop exploring ways to improve.

[snowgoose]

I am of same feeling for myself ....let time take its course at home etc
But WHAT isnt ever said it seems...... is that not treating will so not give you the peaceful end we all want :weep:
It is not all birds singing . for a lot hopefully so with good palliative care .
The docs are not going to say to you .oh well blah blah will happen if you dont . that is too much to bear but can be the truth sadly . I nursed them .
I am not going to say here with anxiety sufferers what turning your back on treatment is going to maybe lead to .
the docs need to be very honest and tell the truth without scaring us witless .

Our oncologist advised such and such ........I asked her when alone if this was to prevent nasty symptoms ....and she nodded . this is active treatment in the cancer care guidelines .....but being done for the best of reasons in her book ........could have been refused and she didnt . making sure we dont have less quality of life actually .

xx

[Tish]

I'd just like to point out that the person who wrote the article isn't a journalist but a long standing, well respected doctor who spent some years running a hospice so he does know his subject.
He's also the medical expert for the writers of Doc Martin!

[countrygirl]

I have to say that due to seeing so many family and friends die of cancer that I have to agree with alot the Dr said. He is not a journalist he is a Dr and he knows exactly what he is talking about.

Once any cancer has become metastatic there is no cure, treatment prolongs life but it is a balancing act whether the quality of life is so bad with treatment that they would be better living shorter but better life.

One friend of mine had multiple myeloma the bone marrow cancer and after intitial chemo that was not too bad she was told that her life could be prolonged by having a stem cell transplant. She went ahead after pressure from her children and this transplant very nearly killed her and certainly left her in agonising pain from the radiation damage to her spine and bones. She lived another 3 years if you could call it living until the cancer returned. She told me had she been told the truth about the transplant she would never had had it and she might even have lived that long anyway.

It was certainly food for thought. Obviously as health anxiety sufferers being told that Drs cannot cure everything is scary but thats life that we have to face up to unfortunetly.

This is just my opinion of course.