View Full Version : Agoraphobia and incapacity benefit/employment support allowance
Hi everyone,
Just wondered if anyone had any experience of the medical assessments you have to go through for getting incapacity benefit/employment support allowance? I've just been sent a questionnaire to fill in to switch me from incapacity benefit to employment support, but it keeps going on about having to attend a face to face medical assessment. I can't get out to attend the assessment because of the agoraphobia ( duh this is why I'm on the benefit DWP idiots!) I have stated on the questionnaire that it would have to be a home visitand am getting a doctor's letter to back that up, but they've ignored all that in the past. JUst wondered if anybody had already been through this situation?
nomorepanic
08-06-12, 13:26
We have quite a few posts about this though I do try and discourage them as it can cause conflict on here.
If you use the search facility at the top then you can look for such things as "medical assessment" and read those posts.
eight days a week
08-06-12, 14:23
Don't worry about it at the form filling-in stage, apart from writing that on the form, as you have done :)
When they contact you for the medical it's then you send them a letter from your GP saying that due to your condition you are unable to travel to a medical.
Hello Cheekyone, yeah if i were you i would probably ring someone associated with the assessment stage and see if you can talk to an adviser and ask what kind of evidence you need to send in. :). xxx
dont send a letter get your gp to fax them
god bless
eight days a week
08-06-12, 17:08
dont send a letter get your gp to fax them
god bless
Yep, that's what they ask you to do once you get to that stage, in my experience, but you can cross that bridge when you come to it - you don't need to worry about that now. Just get the form filled in and send it off asap!
smalltrace
08-06-12, 17:29
I have always attended mine at the centre with someone with me. My theory being I want them to actually see me in a right state of panic and anxiety. If they were to visit me in my own home I would come across as relaxed and competent. Stick me outside the front door and its a different story entirely. One occasion I couldn't make it to the appointment and had to have my GP fax them to back me up on why I failed to attend - I was in far too much of a state of panic that day. They are assessing you to see if you are fit for work, or fit to attend their work related activity programs etc. I personally like to have them see with their own eyes what a state I get into, and allow them to then judge based on evidence rather than just mine and my GP's word for it. Last time I was in tears before I even reached the centre, it was a 20 minute drive away from home. So I was clearly extremely distressed by the time I got into to see them. All I can tell you is I passed!
Just something to consider. I honestly cannot tell you which is the best approach for you.
eight days a week
08-06-12, 18:03
I have always attended mine at the centre with someone with me. My theory being I want them to actually see me in a right state of panic and anxiety. If they were to visit me in my own home I would come across as relaxed and competent. Stick me outside the front door and its a different story entirely. One occasion I couldn't make it to the appointment and had to have my GP fax them to back me up on why I failed to attend - I was in far too much of a state of panic that day. They are assessing you to see if you are fit for work, or fit to attend their work related activity programs etc. I personally like to have them see with their own eyes what a state I get into, and allow them to then judge based on evidence rather than just mine and my GP's word for it. Last time I was in tears before I even reached the centre, it was a 20 minute drive away from home. So I was clearly extremely distressed by the time I got into to see them. All I can tell you is I passed!
Just something to consider. I honestly cannot tell you which is the best approach for you.
A very interesting point!
I think either way doesn't make much difference probably. And a letter of support from your GP isn't 'just' his or her word - it's considered very important legal evidence if you need to get as far as a tribunal if your claim is turned down.
I had a home medical a few weeks ago (I can get around to quite a few places at the moment as long as there is no stress at the end of it, but my condition has been very cyclical for quite some time now - six months ago I barely left my bed for a month).
Well, the idiot assessing doctor, despite having my postcode, went to the right road but it happens to be one that stretches across two villages, and he went to the wrong one! His English was appalling and trying to guide him (a very simple process from where he was) was almost impossible. By the time he got here moaning that my building doesn't have a number (many buildings in the UK don't you imbecile - that's why we have postcodes too!) I was a quivering wreck in my own home. He made a few snarky comments and I almost chucked him out, but for the rest of the interview was almost in tears, and generally in a right state.
I have a list of the criteria they assess you on and had written out ten pages of A4 giving examples of everything, but he never even asked about most of the things you are meant to be assessed on! At the end I showed him my notes and asked 'but what about this?' and gave him one example of how I fit the criteria. I think it's 'being a danger to yourself because of your condition' (I often have accidents due to my condition and medication and, for example, almost burned the flat down a few weeks ago) - he just dismissed it, "oh everyone has accidents".
I cannot wait for them to fail me, if they do, because I'm going to go to absolute town on ATOS and their joke 'doctors' who don't even know what they are meant to be judging you against.
He didn't stay long or ask me much and that is either because a) he's determined to fail me, or b) he quickly saw enough on his home visit to know that it's not worth him trying to fail me.
Sorry for the long post :ohmy: Another reason I like them to visit me at home is because I could show him how I struggle even with daily tasks in my home. E.g. he asked me who does the correspondence in our household, wouldn't believe me when I said 'usually no-one' and I could then show him five years' worth of bills etc stacked around the flat that I haven't been able to deal with :weep:.
Thanks everybody for your advice and support. Eight days a week, could you tell me where I can get the criteria they are assessing against please? The benefits enquiry line told me not to send the doctors letter to ATOS but to the DWP itself, not sure how that's going to work out, but I'll let you know! It's been really helpful to be able to ask people on here about an issue that was concerning me a lot and making me quite anxious. I'm not quite sure why the admins want to discourage open discussion about this. What conflict does it cause? I'm quite happy to accept anybody's comments on the issue, but I really can't see why it is inflamatory. Yes I'd read the previous forum posts on the issue, but i actually wanted personal feedback and a chance to interact with people who have had similar anxieties. I very rarely post new threads and do feel quite discouraged by the official response. Thanks again though to those that have helped.
nomorepanic
08-06-12, 19:42
We have had quite a few of these threads end up in arguments as there are some members on here who are unable to get any benefits and are forced to work despite their illnesses/problems etc so conflict occurs when other members seem to be able to get them easily.
We as admins are entitled to stop a subject being discussed if it gives up more hassle long term hence my comment.
nomorepanic
08-06-12, 19:46
My previous post about it was here:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=104846
eight days a week
08-06-12, 20:53
Thanks everybody for your advice and support. Eight days a week, could you tell me where I can get the criteria they are assessing against please? The benefits enquiry line told me not to send the doctors letter to ATOS but to the DWP itself, not sure how that's going to work out, but I'll let you know! It's been really helpful to be able to ask people on here about an issue that was concerning me a lot and making me quite anxious. I'm not quite sure why the admins want to discourage open discussion about this. What conflict does it cause? I'm quite happy to accept anybody's comments on the issue, but I really can't see why it is inflamatory. Yes I'd read the previous forum posts on the issue, but i actually wanted personal feedback and a chance to interact with people who have had similar anxieties. I very rarely post new threads and do feel quite discouraged by the official response. Thanks again though to those that have helped.
I can send you the criteria my friend, I will PM you :) Why should they know it and not us? Without that knowledge I would not know that I was being wrongly assessed in the first place!!
I'm very much of the mind that this should be able to be discussed here on this forum, because it is literally something that might make or break someone's life. However, I completely understand why Nic (nomorepanic - the owner) is sick of the topic. It's politically very charged right now, and I think almost everyone looking in from the outside who just sees the press thinks 'oh good on the government for kicking off all the scroungers'. Unfortunately we get lumped in with the scroungers AND mental health is very hard to either prove or disprove :( So, it can lead to upsets when it's discussed.
I can also see that it's primarily a forum for discussing panic and anxiety, supporting each other, empathy, and hopefully helping each other to find new ways to cope and approach things. At one point there were a lot of posts from people about benefits and it almost seemed to be half a 'how to claim benefits' site!
There were a few passionate posters at both ends of the spectrum who clashed on a few threads, and with such an emotive subject there was some real upset I believe, and a few people quit the forum, which is very sad.
I have been posting on these sorts of threads for years, and maybe been a bit short with people once or twice (nothing major though!!) and also felt a bit riled, but never got into an argument or got really upset. It depends on your philosophy I guess. I hold people responsible for their own actions/posts/responses online just like in real life, so for me if people react in an extreme manner it's them, and not just the subject (which really in this case is quite straightforward imo).
I understand though (and am sorry) that it's a right pain for the moderators and admin on here (and goodness knows they have enough to deal with), but really appreciate that while Nic says she'd rather not have it here, she tolerates discussion while there are no more arguments!!
Sorry for going so off-topic :)
---------- Post added at 20:53 ---------- Previous post was at 20:16 ----------
We have had quite a few of these threads end up in arguments as there are some members on here who are unable to get any benefits and are forced to work despite their illnesses/problems etc so conflict occurs when other members seem to be able to get them easily.
We as admins are entitled to stop a subject being discussed if it gives up more hassle long term hence my comment.
I am so sorry for people who are entitled to benefits and cannot claim them and/or have been unfairly rejected, that breaks my heart, and I would like to help them all, if I could.
I also understand this is NOT a benefits site!! But it is a part of my life...(alas).
Sorry again, that is not the point of this thread at all. I will shut up for tonight!
nomorepanic
08-06-12, 21:30
Thank You Peter for explaining the reasoning behind my worries much better than I did lol
scaniajess
11-06-12, 22:33
I was claiming jsa for a while but as I have bad anxiety and agoraphobia (can only travel a short distance from my home) I was told to claim esa instead as I told them point blank that no way would I travel 90 mins each way to find work plus they could also see the state I would be in when going inot town to sign on. So after a few weeks of claiming esa, I had a telephone call saying im to attend a medical 10 miles away from me which is the nearest one. I told them the situation and they said for me to have my doctor fax them a letter stating this was true and that I would need a home medical. He did. I then had a letter saying my reasons for not attending was "not justified" and im to attend. Well i didnt go obviously. I had a letter last week asking why I didnt attend and why didnt I tell them when they rang that I couldnt go and if I didnt respond within a couple of days my money would be stopped. I answered their questions very bluntly saying you were told quite clearly I would not be attending and apart from basically calling me a liar, you are calling my doctor a liar also.
I havent heard anything back yet and im due money this week. We'll see :shrug:
I feel if you are physically fit enough to work then work is your best medicine. If you can hold a job down or should I say not get dismissed from a job for your anxiety then working will give you the best lift from this condition. I have never felt as bad as when I had to stay at home dwelling on self pity. I first got some voluntary work helping less fortunate people than myself and then this led me to paid work. I feel I have self worth and independent now. Yes I have bad days and very bad days but I remember when I was at home day in and soon want to go to work. Assuming you don't pick a high stress job or have unsupportive colleagues you will feel great after a while.
I believe in what this government is doing and I feel it should be done even if we weren't in a financial crisis too. (except for the NHS, which I will reserve judgement)
Go with this and let them help you feel good about yourself.
Mee
The ESA system is not fit for purpose in my opinion. Yes people can get huge benefit from work, and yes it is healthy to have meaningful occupation.
However, the system that is designed to assess level of illness is not fit for purpose. There are people who are clearly unfit for work who are being treated disgracefully by the system. In order to get benefit it is necessary to navigate a system that is designed to be difficult to navigate (similar to others) and designed to confuse. The descriptors for mental illness are very broad and do not take into account the very unpredictability of mental illness, and how that affects people on a daily basis.
I'm not even going to go into how they expect people to work in a country where 'fit' people find it difficult to find work, and so if you have been claiming sickness benefit you will be bottom of the pile, which can have a knock on effect because we all know that confidence is often the first thing to go and the last thing to come back when mentally unwell.
The real scandal is the sick and jobless are easy targets for political manipulation, and always have been. I sound like a political activist, but I am not. I'm just someone who is angry about the way this has been introduced and sold to the public.Yes I want to work, but my needs and daily life are erratic and chaotic. Who the heck wants to employ me..? :wacko::wacko:
A good website is benefitsandwork.co.uk. It has a free forum, but charges for membership and further help. However, if one person joins, they can get access to all the info, and share the cost perhaps? It has helped many who have not been able to get assistance from their local welfare rights (many of whom are closing or closed). However, try welfare rights first if you are in urgent need.
Yes, people with anxiety and depression can work if it is not to intrusive in their lives, but many people have associated conditions that make life intolerable enough without having work forced at them in a form of moral outrage because they do not meet societies demands or fail the governments weighted questions on the ESA form.
Yes, there are people who abuse the system, but the very nature of some people means that their lives are being ruined by a system that is supposedly there to support them, as a tolerant and compassionate society should.
I can send you the criteria my friend, I will PM you :) Why should they know it and not us? Without that knowledge I would not know that I was being wrongly assessed in the first place
Hi 8Days and all at NMP...
This is my first proper post here.
Is there a possibility you could let me know those criteria too please (PM?)? My wife has suffered from panic attacks/anxiety since 1995 and I'd like to know which criteria need fulfilling in regard to her forthcoming medical assessment. I've suffered from panic attacks myself (so everyone here has my 100% empathy) due to getting stabbed in the head/tortured (in an unprovoked attack) by some youths back in 2010 but after two years of treatment I'm a lot better. I have my life back, though as the husband of someone who suffers from agoraphobia, it's hardly something 'normal' people would refer to as 'normality'. I have to do EVERYTHING for my family outside the house (we have two children, aged 8 and 16, and it's impacted their lives tremendously too). Sometimes it takes a real toll on my health and general well-being, probably through the stress of trying to cope. However, after seventeen years of this, the situation is probably as bad as ever, now compounded by the thought that she may have to leave the house for a DWP/ATOS assessment (it's making her anxiety/depression sky-rocket).
Our last assessment was four years ago, and we have had them at similar intervals ever since she first claimed Incapacity in 1996. Imo she has never been denied because they can see she's a physical wreck by the time she gets to the assessments. She can't stand the thought of having to tackle this but should she go? Contact a doctor and get them to fax her medical history/hospital reports? Have the goalposts moved that much since 2008..?
Any help or advice would be most appreciated and I thank you in advance for any you may give.
Tel.
eight days a week
29-08-12, 12:47
Hi Tel,
I'm so sorry to read of your situation...
The guide my benefits officer gave me is from www.benefitsandwork.co.uk (http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk)
You can join the site for free but you need to pay for a membership (which I doubt will be very expensive) I think for access to their guides for ESA and DLA criteria. It is called 'A guide to the limited capability for work assessment'.
I have the ESA one. It is co-written by a barrister, and is superb. I was sending out copies of this to anyone who I knew was 100% genuine, but unfortunately can no longer afford to...
Before my medical visit I was really struggling and panicking to know what to tell them. After two hours looking through the guide, with its notes and examples, I had over 10 pages of notes on how my condition relates directly to the criteria.
The incompetent doctor who 'examined' me did not ask about almost any of it :doh: So I know if I have to appeal I am very well-prepared and have a very strong case.
(At the appeal stage you will need to provide 'further medical evidence' e.g. a letter from a doctor or other person treating you to support what you are saying about your condition.)
Hello Tel. Ito suffer with chronic anxiety and agoraphobia. The DWP are aware of my situation and told me to get a letter from my GP stating that i am unable to leave my home to attend a medical and that i would require a home visit. I sent the GP,s letter to the DWP who forwarded it to ATOS. Iam now booked in for a home visit. So ring the DWP and tell them of your wifes situation and she should get a home visit too. Good luck. :)
I gt a home visit causr im agropbic,im stil on esa bt bi put in thevwrk group,dont no what to dp as I dpnt leave the house,x
Thanks for the advice everyone. It's really appreciated at this stressful time.
eight days a week
19-09-12, 18:08
I'm getting a lot of PMs about this. Of course I don't mind at all, but life is throwing me some difficult things at the moment so time is too short to help as much as I'd like :(
I posted on the previous page where to go to get a guide (there is a small fee to access it - sorry i don't know how much it is but it will be worth it I really think) that will help you greatly with your claim/appeal. I used to send out copies to genuine people but unfortunately I can no longer afford to do so.
I have no relationship to that site (actually I have never used it) and no reason to gain anything to promote it apart from to help people on here but the guide is BRILLIANT. My copy was given to me by my benefits adviser!!
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/
The only other thing I can say is that my adviser (who I accessed through my mental health centre, so ask at yours if they have one and if you can see them - explain you need help) said that if you are under 'secondary care' (a mental health service in addition to your GP) then please show the person who gives you your medical any letters you have from them (ask them for copies of anything they send to your GP).
It can make things easier if they see that you are under 'secondary care' (psychiatrist, mental health team etc) as well as your GP.
Good luck everyone and god bless :hugs:
eight days a week
25-09-12, 23:17
Well, imagine my surprise and shock when I was sent the results of my ESA home medical of so many months ago that I cannot remember*. They have awarded me zero points!!
This despite my GP faxing them that I could not travel to a medical because of my condition (being able to travel to places you aren't familiar with alone is one of the criteria). They judged me able to go anywhere!!
This despite showing the guy who came to examine me the paperwork from my psychiatrist that backs up everything I told him.
This despite him asking me who does the paperwork and deals with day-to-day things that need addressing, and me showing him the piles of paperwork going back five years that I have never felt able to deal with (e.g. we haven't had any kind of home insurance until recently for at least three years because I couldn't feel up to trying to arrange it).
Etc etc etc.
I had thought that he gave me only a cursory examination because I had been failed before (with six points) only to take it to tribunal and overwhelmingly win. But no. It is obvious that (at least in my case) they have sent an examiner who would have failed me no matter what.
I had the criteria that I have posted a link to (and had gone through those points writing many pages of how my conditions directly affect me in relation to them). But he asked me about none of them.
When he was finished I showed him all my notes and asked him to listen to them. He walked out. Just before he did so, I gave him the example of 'how my illness puts me in danger' which is one of the criteria (in my case it is because of chronic insomnia lasting weeks on end which leaves me utterly unable to function, the effects of my medication (which spaces me out), and derealisation (I have been known to just run in front of cars when I have panic attacks because I don't know where I am or really care)). I often have falls or find cuts and bruises I don't know about, or am unable to do things (even cook or bathe) because I am scared of accidents.
He just said 'that doesn't matter, everyone has accidents' :scared15:
Well, sorry sunshine, but it DOES matter. The criteria to receive this benefit is set in law. I know the law, and I have the criteria. Also, very thankfully, I am in touch with a great benefits adviser through my mental health team, and he knows the law too. Sorry ATOS, but this is another appeal you will have upheld against you, and another black mark against your name.
I spoke to my benefits adviser (who I was able to access through my mental health team luckily) and told him I'd received no points. He just rolled his eyes - he is sick of this, he fights this injustice every day. I told him all about my medical assessment and he wasn't surprised by the 'doctor's actions. I'm going to see him and he's going to help me.
I am sorry for the long post, I just wanted to share my experience. I have been turned down for ESA after a medical once before. I appealed (not knowing that if you want it overturned at that stage you have to provide 'further medical evidence' e.g. copies of letters from your psychiatrist or GP etc - something at least more than just saying 'I disagree'). So, it went to a tribunal. At that point I did (with my benefit adviser's help) have a supporting statement from my psychiatrist, but I have no doubt even without that I would have passed (the tribunal is impartial and HAS to uphold the law, even if ATOS don't even bother trying, and so they properly questioned me).
People!! If you are turned down by the initial medical assessment I would suggest that means nothing whatsoever!! It is very unpleasant and distressing, I know that (I spent the day I received the letter in a state of utter terror and panic, and two days later I am still manic with worry) but please, please, please continue to put the effort in to claim what is rightfully (and legally) yours. If you cannot do that by yourself then please appeal for help through your local mental health centre, careworker, ANYTHING.
Good luck my friends, and I will let you know how I get on...
* There is an outrageous secondary scandal here. The first is obviously that people with mental health issues are being treated so abysmally by the system that is meant to protect and support them. The second (and this is partly why, for me, so many 'ordinary' voters are against the system full-stop) is that my GP said I needed a home medical in February. They gave me one early summer. They have just told me that I have failed and they will stop my money. That is seven months of benefit that they say they believe I am not entitled to, and yet they have been paying me all that time, and will not ask for that money back. Obviously I believe, and fully expect, to have my own personal decision reversed. But imagine the money we are giving to people who genuinely are not entitled to benefits while the incompetent system catches up with them. And so we genuinely ill suffer because of the political pressure to reduce the benefit bill that they cannot keep under control because they are utterly useless. The genuine claimants are often too sick to fight their corner. The fraudsters will be well versed in their 'rights' and know how to play the system. I give up on this country and its government, I really do :doh:
eight days a week
28-09-12, 00:28
OK, so I saw my benefits adviser the other day (again, I asked at my local mental health centre for someone to help me and they put me onto him).
I have also heard that there is a retired magistrate at the local Citizen's Advice Bureau who is an absolute expert in things like this, and her passion is helping people like us, so if you have no other route to try PLEASE TRY THAT!
Also again, if you get to the appeal stage (like me) then you will need to submit additional medical evidence (this could be supporting evidence from your GP or psychiatrist or other people treating you) to back up what you say about your illness.
If you can't give further evidence then it will go to a tribunal - I know this is very scary to think about, but please remember that these people are NOT biased like ATOS or the government - and unlike (in my experience) ATOS 'doctors' they must assess you according to the actual LAW (rather than their targets for just failing people).
I have been to a tribunal and they were very kind and understanding and actually assessed me properly!! (Unlike ATOS.)
So, here is how my meeting with my benefits adviser went:
I told him I was given zero points - he was not surprised (so please, please NEVER give up at this stage!)
He said that he is overrun with ATOS denying people with mental health issues enough points (15 I think) to pass the medical, his full-time job is trying to help people like us.
I told him the story of my home medical assessment and I said I felt like complaining - he told me to do so! He said I should complain about everything I have described. He also said I should send the original of my psychiatrist's letter that I actually showed the doctor along with my other paperwork, because quite clearly what was written in that letter was NOT reflected in the points I have been given. So the 'doctor' basically looked at it and yet ignored it.
He said to send the copies of my psychiatrist's recent assessments of me (ignored by the assessment), my GP's letter saying I needed a home medical (ignored by the assessment - should at least have given me 6 points), as well as the notes I had made on how my condition affects me in relation to the legal criteria (notes I made from the website link I have posted here, and which I tried to show the doctor before he walked out) with my appeal letter.
I am confident that doing all that (which I would have done anyway, even without my benefit adviser's help) I would have a very good chance of passing the appeal. So, please try to get all the help you can, but if you can't get someone to help you just send them the originals of anything you have copies of describing your condition by medical professionals and say that they weren't taken into account at your assessment.
But first I would urge you to try to get some help from your psychiatrist/GP/local mental health team/benefits adviser/Citizen's Advice.
If not, still don't worry!!
So, how did I get on? Well, my benefits adviser said that certain categories don't apply to me (e.g. 'learning to do tasks'). I disagree with this, and the notes from that website (that he gave me) suggest he is wrong, or not pushing things as far as he should/might given my condition. At the same time, I understand he doesn't need to. He has known me for years, knows me well and that I genuinely have problems, and also (I suspect) that the more 'obvious' parts of the assessment are where things don't need to be argued in legal detail - they are so obvious it's untrue (thank you ATOS doctor you useless/deceitful muppet :doh:).
He is overrun with people like me (us!) being turned down this benefit at the assessment stage, so he just does what he needs to do - which is focus on the obvious things.
He assessed me himself based on my medical notes and his knowledge of me.
How many points did I score (even with him ruling out two sections that I feel I should legally get points for)? And please bear in mind that you need 15 points, but I was given ZERO by the assessing doctor who came to my home because even though my GP wrote to them saying I couldn't travel to see them due to my condition, they didn't even give me points for that (which seems illegal to me - not just a mistake actually illegal).
34
Fight it my friends. We are legally entitled to this benefit, as set down by the laws of our country. You may very well (very sadly, it seems likely) be failed at the assessment stage. DO NOT GIVE UP. THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT.
Once I have passed this appeal I will be taking this fight to my MP and Parliament, hopefully. It is a disgrace in my humble opinion, an absolute outrage. One day the truth about ATOS and the mentally ill will come out, I have no doubt. There will be a scandal. But, for your benefits, please don't wait for that day.
Whatever your medical assessment, and as hard as it is (I know all about that, I have been through it, and still am) do what you can and get what you deserve.
Sorry for the long post.
:hugs:
kashameets
30-09-12, 01:18
So sorry your going through this :hugs:
Sadly ESA is just like DLA its all about the right words :lac:
Key points are.....if they want you to go to a medical get a letter from a doctor saying attending a medical would be detrimental to your health..they can not make you go to a medical after a doctor has said that.
Always send everything recorded delivery....or it will be 'lost'
When you get the ESA form do not make you illnesses fit the form make the form fit your illness.....IE if you can not go out alone on the question about walking distances put you can not walk that distance unattended as you would need to be outside of your home....turn the physical questions in to mental health questions....
Do not write 'if' always write 'when' ....
Read the descriptors and keep these in mind when you fill in the form...
In the form where it asks about being able to go out alone it does not give you a NO/NEVER answer.....write one in.....
Send 'ALL' your medical evidence in with the form, do not wait until they ask you for it....send copies or at least keep copies....let them know you have kept copies.....
Ask your doctor to write a letter saying that it would be detrimental to your mental health/condition if you were not found to have a limited capability for work related activity...
If a doctor is sent out to see you HE/SHE does NOT make the decision on if you pass or not...the decision maker does.....this means THEY will only see what your form and the doctors notes say so make sure YOU send ALL your medical evidence along with your form....
If you send enough medical evidence the decision maker may decide you have given enough evidence so you do not need a medical....
You need to score 15 points to be placed in the work related activity group, in this group you are classed as ill/disabled but can work in time with help....you will need to attend work related interviews....
To be placed in the support group where you are classed as ill/disabled and can not work and where you do not have to attend work related interviews one of the following descriptors must apply to you http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wca-handbook.pdf
Descriptors (http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_177366.pdf)
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_177366.pdf
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I was in a terrible state when i knew i was going over to ESA and made myself ill with worry as i was convinced that either i would be turned down or i would be placed in the WRAG group and i knew i would not be able to attend the interviews but i filled the form in making it fit me and my illness plus i sent a tun of letters with it even including letters i had from the mental health team saying we are sorry you missed your appointment, when i had missed appointments due to my mental health...
I sent in enough medical evidence that the decision maker decided that i did not need a medical and i was placed in the support group...
I was turned down for DLA the first time i applied as they said once out i was aware of my surroundings.....it did not matter that i could not go out unless someone i trusted was with me....in the eyes of DLA a spaceship picks you up and drops you somewhere :lac::doh::roflmao:
I had explained that if i was suddenly dropped somewhere i would have a panic attack which for me means i would get very hot, feel faint, go deaf, go blind and collapse yet i was still turned down...
The next time i claimed i filled in the form just the same but this time after explaining what happens to me when i have a panic attack i added the words 'i am unaware of my surroundings' and i was awarded it.
Its all in the words:lac:
eight days a week
17-10-12, 22:00
Brilliant post kasha and I agree with every word!! People please follow this great advice :yesyes:
The only thing I would say is, as I don't think you have been on this benefit for long (?), when the time finally comes when you have a home medical, please don't be surprised if they fail you (they are failing everyone). You will then need to ask them to reconsider.
I was finally able to send my documents in today asking them to look at my claim again and to reconsider (the first stage against a medical assessment) and telling them I will appeal (to the independent legal tribunal) if they will not.
I sent them:
1) A letter telling them I believe I am entitled to ESA and asking them to reconsider their decision, and also making a formal complaint about the doctor who came to my home to assess me.
2) An appeal form if not (I am 100% confident I will win this if it gets as far as this - this is the next stage after asking them to reconsider).
3) A new medical certificate from my GP saying I am unfit to work from the date they said I was (you need this to get continued payments in the meantime until they are able to review your case - they told me this should be done within 50 days).
4) A copy of the notes I wrote before the doctor arrived for the assessment (based on the criteria and advice in the link to a website I gave earlier in this thread). I complained that I had prepared and shown him the notes when he came (particularly as problems 'dealing with people' is one of the criteria!!) but he dismissed them and refused to look at them, or even listen to me.
5) A copy of my GP's letter saying I needed a home assessment because I cannot travel to a non-supportive environment that I don't know due to my condition (this was totally ignored by the doctor as 'going out' is another criteria you can score points on).
6) Copies of two letters from my psychiatrist that show my condition (I showed the doctor one of them but again he totally ignored it because I scored ZERO points :whistles:)
I am totally confident I will win this. They are making it as hard as possible for people so if you are not able to do this on your own please PLEASE ask for all the help you can get. Your Citizens' Advice Bureau is a good place to start. If you have access to your local mental health team then ask there, also your GP to support you, but the CAB might be able to help you to start to do that if you can't yourself.
Please do not worry if you do not have so much stuff as me to send :) Even a letter complaining that your medical assessment wasn't carried out properly and explaining why (and most importantly HOW) your condition affects you might get your claim agreed before the tribunal stage. I cannot recommend the link I gave to that benefits guide highly enough. But then I don't know how much it costs to access it, could anyone comment on that? All I can say is that I didn't have a clue what to say to the doctor befo0re he visited my home for the assessment, I was just ready to follow his questions. But after reading that document, in a few hours I was able to make enough notes from their explanations that would and should have 'passed' me 100% - if the doctor had actually been willing to listen.
And that I feel is one of the strongest arguments I have about winning this before the actual appeal (tribunal) stage. That I had all the evidence and explanations sitting right there by my chair in pages and pages of notes, but the doctor ignored it all and refused to even hear about it.
Best wishes to all, carry on fighting this madness please (and they reckon we're the mad ones!! :whistles:)
:hugs:
eight days a week
27-10-12, 19:11
The latest news on my case is that I got a letter saying:
1) I have been found fit to work
2) I have been found to have limited capability to work
Both in the same letter!!
Conveniently confusing for someone with mental health issues I would suggest :whistles:
I felt able to phone up yesterday (mostly I cannot use the phone at all except for texts) to question what on earth they were saying in this letter.
They have introduced a new 'security system' on their phone access to your records at the DWP. They have all my details (which have not changed for seven years) and yet after twenty minutes on hold I failed some part of the security clearance.
The gentleman was polite and very apologetic. He said I needed to phone back and fail security three times in total for them to call me back to reset the security details they have for me (not my fault as they have had the same, correct, details for so many years).
So, I had to do that, and now wait back for Monday morning when they are supposed to call me to sort out my security and also to discuss my appeal.
We will see - I am not hopeful. They are clearly incompetent.
Fight this people, please, or get someone to help you. If I felt unable to phone them back a second time I would have written explaining the problem. In my past experience this has always worked :) For example, sometimes they sent me letters in the past saying 'you failed to attend your medical on (date) so we will stop your benefit' (when they hadn't actually sent me a letter at all - at least not one I had received!!). So, I wrote, and they were fine about it.
eight days a week
29-10-12, 17:25
As predicted, they did not phone me this morning as I was told they would.
I got my P45 through the post from them this morning which means they have not received my letter asking them to reconsider, or else to send me to appeal. I had suspected this, as I sent the letter with all my supporting evidence recorded delivery. And the tracking number still shows as 'not delivered' on the Royal Mail website.
I suspect they get a lot of recorded items and don't bother to sign for them, but they are still delivered. Just the same as they SAY they sent you letters about your benefit that you need to reply to, but never actually appear. Funny though that I always get the ones that tell me my benefit has stopped :whistles:
I guess it's going to need another letter which I will try to send in the next few days if I am able to...seeing as they have blocked me off from phoning them to speak about it due to my security details (which I have never changed) being 'wrong'.
If I feel well enough at any point I am resolved to see my MP now.
It is a national disgrace.
eight days a week
30-10-12, 11:48
So, I sent them my appeal letter and stuff a month ago. A month later they send me all the paperwork kicking me off the benefit.
So as I posted I phoned them on Friday. Now suddenly this morning I have received two letters. One of them is dated Thursday and says my appeal is going ahead. The second is dated Friday and tells me I have been paid the money from when they said I was fit to work until now (so, I can buy food again, hurrah!).
It still seems a great coincidence to me that the only 'positive' paperwork I've received is a few days after I phoned them, even if one letter is dated the day before :whistles:
In the meantime I am locked out of contacting them on the phone to discuss my appeal because of their new security system - not very helpful for me, but seems rather convenient for them :whistles:
I guess the only thing I can advise from my experience is to send anything important to them by recorded delivery, and that you may have to chase them up a bit, unfortunately. But if you do the system seems to work, eventually. Oh and you might get confusing letters that make no sense :doh:
Luckily I don't feel I need to speak to them right now, but guess I'll have to write to them at some point to ask them to reset my security.
So, I sent them my appeal letter and stuff a month ago. A month later they send me all the paperwork kicking me off the benefit.
So as I posted I phoned them on Friday. Now suddenly this morning I have received two letters. One of them is dated Thursday and says my appeal is going ahead. The second is dated Friday and tells me I have been paid the money from when they said I was fit to work until now (so, I can buy food again, hurrah!).
It still seems a great coincidence to me that the only 'positive' paperwork I've received is a few days after I phoned them, even if one letter is dated the day before :whistles:
In the meantime I am locked out of contacting them on the phone to discuss my appeal because of their new security system - not very helpful for me, but seems rather convenient for them :whistles:
I guess the only thing I can advise from my experience is to send anything important to them by recorded delivery, and that you may have to chase them up a bit, unfortunately. But if you do the system seems to work, eventually. Oh and you might get confusing letters that make no sense :doh:
Luckily I don't feel I need to speak to them right now, but guess I'll have to write to them at some point to ask them to reset my security.
Excellent news.:D
I have been following this thread with interest as my form is sitting on the table waiting to be sent to ATOS.
I phoned my GP straight away and she has already written a letter to say that I have 'significant' agoraphobia and would be unable to travel to the assessment centre. Let's see if they accept that straight away or still ask me to go there. I'm sending a copy with the form so I expect they will ask for the original letter first.
It's the first time I have been significant at anything, I don't know whether I should be sad or happy about that:D
My GP said that the benefit system is a complete mess at the moment and that I am not to worry. To expect to be failed and then phone her straight away for her to deal with and I am to just carry on with my recovery. Nice to know that I have her support but I'm still losing sleep over it.
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