View Full Version : Why do the heart races IF there's no reason for anxiety/panic?!!
My wife is having panic attacks for years now, she's used to take Zoloft and Rivotril (Clonazepam) for 6 years but she stopped two years ago being helped by acupuncture, after trying different doctors, different approaches (psychotherapy, psihogodknowswhat, differentpsyhocan'tremember, etc).
We thought she finally got rid of her problems after this acupuncturist but due to quite a stressful period (relocating to London, me having difficulty in finding a job, same for her), her panic attacks are now back.
Everything is close to perfect in our life, we both have the jobs we have dreamt about, but her panic attacks are now back and she is afraid she won't be able to cope with them at her new job, which is quite demanding.
Few months ago she went to Chelsea hospital as her heart was racing and also the chest pains, you all know what I am talking about, that tightness.. she had an electrocardiogram taken, everything fine, there were loads of doctors around her as her case seemed special (don't know why, too many beats per minute, I try not to give too much attention to this kind of details when she tells me, but deliberately), and they've clearly said there's nothing wrong with her heart. They've said the same after soooooo many doctors and hospitals we've been through all these years, but as ever, this is not enough for her.
However, this is her major concern, and we both feel that if this has a logic answer, it would be a lot easier to cope with:
Why is the heart racing, why the chest tightness and all the panic attack symptoms IF she feels perfect? She is in a perfect mood, no negative thoughts at all, very, very happy and suddenly her heart starts to beat like crazy, faster and faster all of a sudden, or she feels chest pains, or pains in the left part of the body.. I basically need to convince/explain to her why is all this happening, and how is this possible?
As it should be the other way round: panic attack to cause the symptoms. Not the symptoms first as this obviously starts the panic attack, this meaning more symptoms most of the time.
Told her hundred times: You've been to 20 doctors, 10 of them reputable cardiologists, 10 of them psychiatric/psychologists, they all told you the same thing: your heart is fine, nothing wrong with it, is the anxiety that causes the heart and chest pains.
She would believe it, IF I can "serve" her a decent answer, as in why is this happening all of a sudden if there's no panic attack? Of course, after the heart and chest tightness and the other symptoms, what follows? The panic.
Any view on this would be greatly appreciated, as I will show her the answers in a week. Doesn't matter if it has been said before or not, it would probably help her a lot, seeing different people, different answers/approaches/explanations.
Thank you very much in advance.
I don't know if this is helpful at all but my heart shoots to 140 bpm even when I "think" I am feeling fine. I've had heart tests as well, all with nothing to mention.
I think anxiety is tricky and even when your not thinking, your subconscious always is. And if this heart issue has been bothering your wife for sometime now, she is likely hyper aware of her heart rate and the minute it feels off-down the cycle you go.
I have to have this same conversation with my fiance almost every night because I, myself am hyper aware of every sensation my body produces which only causes more symptoms and worry.
I think you are an amazing husband and she is lucky to have you for your devoted support
Amanda
A completely unconscious thought can start panic circle, adrenaline, tight chest palpitations etc etc.
Your wife is extremely thorough examined by cardiologists, if she had a heart defect that could trigger these episodes, it was discovered.
We who have tried to suffer from panic attacks, should not think many thoughts before the entire turbine is started again.
She should use her common sense and the tools she has received, recognize the anxiety, and thinking based on it. It's so easy to write / say .. I know.
But the heart is our strongest muscle.
Has she ever had a holter recording on who have recorded the attack?
Right now is facts that her heart is struktuelt healthy and normal, so the probability that something had to be missed is almost 0
:flowers:
Thanks Amanda. Is quite important for her to have an explanation, as frome her point of view is simple, and quite worrying: if there's nothing wrong with my heart, why all the chest tightness and pain on the left side if I've got no panic, but nothing at all?! Clearly (in her mind) something must provoke all this panic and this is the heart, this meaning I've got heart problems.
If I will be able to knock down this stereotype, I am positive it will be a lot more better for both of us!
Thanks Rikke for the kind words. They will be quite helpful when she will read; obviously, she is probably laughing now (as/when she reads), she would say for herself something like "what if I really have something despite all these opinions" :).
No, a holter monitor would be the ultimate solution. But with or without, she would probably feel the same. After all these years, I've got the feeling that only and ONLY a cardiologist would make fer feel better. A friend or something to tell her every single bloody day that there's nothing wrong with her. Of course, she must respect his opinion as a professional. I've also got a feeling that even if I tell her the same thing over and over, she doesn't see me a a qualified person and my opinion doesn't help her at all.
xvolatileheart
02-07-12, 20:46
You are a very kind husband!
My panic attacks are exactly like your wife's - symptoms happen which cause me to panic. I wish I had a perfect answer for why it happens, because I would be healed if I did! But I can say that even when I feel at my best, I am still deep down keeping a hyperawareness of my heart beats and breathing rate. It's like an obsession, I can't stop it. Of course the second I feel the tiniest change, it sends me straight into a panic which causes the cycle of symptoms, panic, symptoms, panic, etc.
For those of us with an underlying anxiety, even at our very best, we are very sensitive to random adrenaline attacks and noticing extremely minute changes in our body. After years of worrying, it is almost impossible to completely let it go from your mind.
I really feel for your wife as she and I seem to be in the same boat! Despite everything I've said above, I instantly think the worst about my health anytime my heart speeds up or skips beats.
Thanks, I kind of feel embarrassed now, I do nothing special but trying to understand better so I can explain it better to her. I also think everyone should do the same and I actually refuse to believe there are d**kheads in this world refusing to understand their partners and to take any action at all but well, that's some other story. But let's stop this here as this is irrelevant.
xvolatileheart, you indeed sound like my wife :). And I've recently realised there are, I think, hundreds of millions in the same situation. But never lose hope, my wife was able to quit Zoloft and Rivotril in 6 months after many years, and then had like half a year feeling perfect with no anxiety at all, we were thinking she discovered the anti-dot and we've discussed quite a few times to tell the world what happened in her case but due to her pessimistic side we've kept that for us until the last moment and now she is in the same old situation again. Only a lot more stronger, and I am sure everyone of you is getting stronger as the years are passing by.
One thing I could say: never give up. Where others have been completely healed for 6 months, is it possible then to get better for a lot more!
So far, I couldn't find a reason for "why is the heart racing even if no panic". I mean, how is this physically possible, what's the scientific reason for it? Should I assume is the subconscious panic causing/triggering the heart beats and that would immediately and inevitably lead to the rest of the systems, based on the worries followed after the racing heart?
If I can only serve a proper reason, a very logical explanation, she would happily embrace it and I know this is going to help a lot. As she is telling me, she knows there's nothing wrong with her heart but there's always an "if" as she is not 100% and sooo many psyhowhatever (we've been to so many, no offence but they are all the same under different names) told her the same thing, as a stereotype: "you have anxiety, nothing wrong with your heart, you will be better, do this"; basically, all of them were telling her what she previously told them and she now feels she can't take the same answers anymore.
She needs a logical explanation, that's why I am here and have read so many articles in the last week. I've read about everything, but didn't really find something relevant enough.
xvolatileheart
02-07-12, 21:53
Thanks for the kind words. I've only been dealing with this for 5 months, but it feels like a lifetime. :blush:
I think that your wife and I get fixated on the "what ifs" and don't deal well with the unknown. Unfortunately, you can NEVER be 100% about anything. Healthy people drop dead. People who have been investigated and cleared later find out they have something awful. Yes, these are the exceedingly rare cases, but they do happen and some of us can't let it go. Especially when we're having symptoms that feel like "HEY, listen, something is wrong!" I understand that it's about changing the way we think, but it doesn't take away the physical symptoms and that is really hard to deal with.
carlodozre
perhaps try nothingworks.weebly.com
good explanation there..
I'm exactly the same as your wife pal my symptoms come before the panic I can't get my head around this ever my doctor tells me that it's my subconscious thoughts that trigger the adrenalin and because I'm slim my body can't absorb it aswell as a person who is bigger than me,I've been questioning my doctor for 9 months now but I've decided to take his word for it and go with his diagnosis at the end of the day me trying to diagnose myself is just adding to my health anxiety.
It is a little bit confusing but the actual symptoms that your wife and a lot of others get is the actual Panic Attack, they dont lead to the attack as they are it to start with if that makes sence.
So for example if you get the chest pains, rapid heart beat and so on that is your Panic Attack right there, the worry and feel of doom are just other symptoms as well.
Just remember any of the Symptoms are the Panic Attack. Its a bit of a deceptive name in a way because you think unless you are Panicking and Freaking out it cant be a Panic Attack, but this is not the case.
Your body can fire of these Flight or Fight responce symptoms at anytime as it has become so sensitized so it doesnt just have to be in a stressfull situation.
Margaret99
07-07-12, 10:15
Those of us who have PA are in an extreme state of nervous tension, often without realising it. Thats why it takes very little or it can appear to take nothing to trigger PA symptoms.
The body wrongly thinks its under threat because you are in this elavated state, and responds to it, thats when you get PA symptoms. You are usually not under threat, but understandably if you have suffered from anxiety/PA for some time your body/mind believes that it is and reacts in this way.
The way i understand it, the fight or flight response is triggered by something supposedly "going wrong", adrenaline is released into the body (your bloodstream) which you feel going through your limbs. The chest muscles in the ribcage contract which can feel like sharp, stabbing and tightness sensations. Your mind is almost trying to protect your heart by making you much more aware of it. It's completely self defeating when you look at it logically.
But i think everybody else has answered your question. I still experience the symptoms without the panic, more so when i'm stressed out or worrying. My heart rate is still low and i'm not panicking right now, but my shoulders are tense and i have chest pains.
I think the symptoms are triggering off your wifes anxiety. Once she fully believes she's not in any danger whatsoever, she'll logically see no reason to panic and it will get easier for her. I know it's easier said than done, especially after being aware of your heart for years, but she has a good partner in you to understand her :)
---------- Post added at 21:22 ---------- Previous post was at 21:22 ----------
http://www.calmclinic.com/anxiety/symptoms/chest-pain Also, I found this a good read on the difference between heart trouble and anxiety :)
techgurl1988
10-07-12, 22:07
I read this thread today because this is exactly what is happening to me. The pain in my chest is more of a burning sensation. I have only been to one cardiologist who did a nuclear stress test. Only my situation is a little different, I wasn't having any symptoms of chest pain BEFORE the stress test. The reason for the test was because I was preparing to have back surgery (fusion) and they found something abnormal with my ECG so the surgeon requested that I have a stress test performed.
3 hrs AFTER the stress test, my chest started burning, i started breathing fast like I couldn't catch my breath. I didn't know why it was happening to me but I feared the worst, that somehow the test had stressed my heart. However that is when the panic set in, it went straight to my brain...the fear I mean. And when the fear hit me (mind you, I had never had a panic attack before and I am 40 yrs old), I thought a demon or something evil was possessing my thoughts! All I could think of was fear. But I didn't know what I was afraid of. They said (the professionals) that it was anxiety of the surgery so I canceled that, yet the fear remained.
To make a long story short, the attack continued for 6 days. 2 times I was without fear in those 6 days and it was when the ER gave me pain medicine for my back. I realized that whatever it was, pain meds took it away. I was already on vicodin for my back so that worked out. However recently, the attacks began even though I was on the pain meds. After one hits you, the likelihood of another coming on is common. Fear of having a panic attack causes a panic attack. At least this is what my psych told me today. So I asked her the question that was posed in this thread. Why does the symptoms occur BEFORE the panic. She explained it was cognitive. You can be doing nothing, watching a comedy even, but your cognitive part of your brain is still running the autonomic nervous system (ANS). (Thank you for the link above to nothingworks this really explains it very well). So that even if you are not aware of any issues, the ANS is still there. The word itself-Autonomic- has the word "auto" in it meaning "by itself". So it runs automatically whether you are thinking about it or not. It runs the flight or fight reaction. Here is a very good article about the symptoms of Flight or Fight which includes cardiovascular. changingminds.org/explanations/brain/fight_flight.htm
What I found interesting about this answer was I remembered back to the 6 days when I was in non stop panic mode, my back pain was literally non existent. I didn't understand why until I read the link about the fight or flight. You produce endorphins which it states "Are the bodies natural pain killers". Once I returned to my normal self, the back pain returned and I had to go back on vicodin.
Well I hope this helps explain it a little more. I am no expert, but did ask the question to the psychiatrist today and what she said made a lot of sense so I wanted to share. Hopefully your wife can take comfort in some of it?
MikeAmbition
15-07-12, 12:45
Basically, a panic attack is a panic attack in itself, what you mean is probably the "second fear".
But whether an attack is coming of not, she can't control consciously. Only thing she can do is how she reacts to it. As long as it's not resolved.
I've read several stories about people who totally recovered.
---------- Post added at 11:45 ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 ----------
Thanks Amanda. Is quite important for her to have an explanation, as frome her point of view is simple, and quite worrying: if there's nothing wrong with my heart, why all the chest tightness and pain on the left side if I've got no panic, but nothing at all?! Clearly (in her mind) something must provoke all this panic and this is the heart, this meaning I've got heart problems.
No, a holter monitor would be the ultimate solution. But with or without, she would probably feel the same. After all these years, I've got the feeling that only and ONLY a cardiologist would make fer feel better. A friend or something to tell her every single bloody day that there's nothing wrong with her. Of course, she must respect his opinion as a professional. I've also got a feeling that even if I tell her the same thing over and over, she doesn't see me a a qualified person and my opinion doesn't help her at all.
Of course she needs an explanation, because she - probably for the first time in her life - feels an intense emotion (the most intense, fear of death), and has absolutely no idea where it comes from.
(Imagine that. Emotions are a vital part of even a very rational human being. Getting a panic attack means that you feel like your emotional world is DESTROYED.)
I'd say try to imagine, but you really can't. Even though she clearly and totally understands that her heart is probably totally okay, her deepest instincts (life protection instincts, the strongest one) constantly SHOUTING into her ears that "YOU WILL DIE, YOU'RE IN DANGER".
And in this situation, she does what every single healthy human or animal would do: starts the desperate search for the threat. And regardless of what it is (even if there's none), she will FIND one.
If you prove her that her heart is the best heart in the world, she'll find a new "explanation". Until she resolves panic.
Bad heart? You have no idea about my variations. Mental illness, scizophrenia, heart disease, meditation caused craziness, egoloss, failure in life (even if everybody tells the opposite), ugliness (girls love me), brain damage, brain tumor, the world is not real, etc..
The stupidest, and most irrational idiotic ideas. But they are not the result of my stupidity, they are the result of the DESPERATE search you do when you BELIEVE that your life is threatened.
ps. : In this state, even the "nothing wrong with you" statement can hurt. It can make her feel like she's unintentionally and uselessly robbing other peoples time and energy, just to pay attention, and may start to question her own sanity. But of course, she did not woke up one day and thought "Nobody pays attention to me, let's simulate some heart disease."
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