anxiety and depression

[theresa]

My anxiety doesn't seem to fit into any neat category - I guess the nearest is GAD. I have anxiety symptoms all the time from waking to going to bed - maybe at times I don't FEEL anxious but the chest pain, 'swirly' stomach etc is still there. I think about my anxiety practically all the time, how I got into it, what I've tried to get out of it, what else can I try etc. I don't have panic attacks but I frequently have an anxiety 'rush' where I feel panicky or frightened and I break out in a hot sweat. I wake up a couple of times a night feeling frightened. I've had depression for quite a while and the anxiety kicked in about 18 months ago after a few sessions of cognitive therapy for the depression. I found that I just couldn't bring myself to fill out the forms as I often felt worse after doing them, particularly so after my (NHS) therapist had told me to concentrate on those where I ended up feeling worthless! As soon as I tried to do the form-filling I just became too anxious. Now whenever I think I'm going to feel depressed (e.g. overhearingpeople talking about their jobs - I'm no longer working) I just get more anxious.

All the anxiety recovery methods seem to be based on exposure therapy but I can't see how I could apply it. I don't have triggers and I can 'push' myself to do things. I suppose I do avoid situations where I've expereinced intense anxiety symptoms e.g. visiting relatives. I've had various kinds of therapy which haven't helped and am now feeling pretty desperate. I am extremely negative in my thought processes and feel hopeless and helpless. I'm now wondering whether to try cogntitive therapy again, but this time for anxiety (and with a different therapist!).

I'd love to hear from anyone else with similar symptoms as I never seem to hear/read of symptoms quite like these.

Thanks a lot
Theresa

[Meg]

You do have triggers . Your triggers are your very negative thoughts which you upfront say lead you to feeling anxious and depressed too. Those are what you need to push yourself to change and the rest will follow.

Get a notebook and write down every negative thought that you have for a whole morning. Don't think about them- just jot them down. Later that day reread them and sit and ask yourself how many of them are honestly realistic or rational ..?? Then cross out the negative false thought and replace it with a more realistic positive one.

Then do it for a whole day and so forth It's hard work and a challenge but so very powerful.

You are distressing yourself by believing what you're saying to yourself.

Either

Feeling Good - Burns
What to say when you talk to yourself- Shad Helmsletter

books will help enormously


Meg

Watch your thoughts, they become your words...
Watch your words, they become your actions... Watch your actions, they become your habits... Watch your habits, they become your character... Watch your character, it becomes your destiny...

[bishop]

hi there
love your advice meg,read this and thought it is really good,think i
will try that myself,brilliant .
bish

[theresa]

Meg,

Thanks for the good advice but ..... (always another 'but'). I've read the Burns book and it's too much to take in, plus I don't have the sorts of thoughts he describes, a few years ago I did, like worrying what people think of me. Now my thoughts are always about how bad my anxiety is, very dramatic thoughts like 'I can't stand another day, or another week', 'Maybe I should be in hospital', 'How did I get in such a mess', 'Why am I not getting better?,' I don't seem to be able to stop them. I know they fuel the situation but I am in a pretty bad way and maybe I should be in hospital. Getting 3 hours sleep a night doesen't help. The frightening thing about anxiety is its self-fulfilling nature. It seems I can just spend all day trying not to think about anxiety, or trying to say something more positive to myself. If I do something distracting I can stil think about the anxiety.

Sorry to be going on so much - I'm fairly isolated and the forum gives me a 'sounding-off' board.




Theresa

[Lottie32]

Hi Theresa

Your symptoms are very similar to mine. I have had great spells in my life where I feel "wound up", "tense", "anxious", with a pulsating heart, sweating, nausea etc for no apparent reason. Some of them are continual - i.e. I wake up feeling like this, spend my day feeling like this, and go to bed feeling like this. It's really hard to explain if you haven't been there.

I don't know what triggers mine - I don't have much self confidence (people often dispute this, but I am only "fine" when surrounded by my friends, who know I'm a bit "mad" - and quite frankly don't care), and I'm not sure if this has something to do with it.

Also, I often feel a bit lost. I am in my early thirties, got a reasonable job, but not one I particularly enjoy, and still live at home with my mum. I've also been single for the last two years, although my friends boyfriends all say they would go out with me if they weren't already committed! I'm not bad looking, have loads of interests, am a nice person to be around, and an excellent friend (this is a quote from my mates. I don't really feel in control of my life, and I'm not sure if this sense of "drifting" has something to do with it.

I too find self help books "too much". However, I have had some success with a relaxation hypnotherapy tape. My mum swears by yoga, but this didn't work for me.

I find I need a bit of routine and order in my life, which is why I fight very hard to keep coming to work. You say you have given work up? Could I suggest you perhaps try and get some sort of part time work - it needn't be paid, maybe some voluntary work in the local charity shop. Also, I find hobbies very theraputic. Try and find something that interests you, and keep striving to get better.

I have an excellent (NHS) CBT therapist. She is marvellous, and I can honestly say the CBT is working for me. I have only had to fill in one set of forms too - so please go back and give this a go - but find a better therapist!!!

Graded exposure is hard, but works. The trick is to set yourself very small (and therefore possible) tasks, and to keep doing them repeatedly, before moving onto something else. You also need to keep repeating the original tasks.

Positive thought should also be encouraged, very hard I know, but try to re-train yourself to look on the bright side. My gran (who was also my best friend) was recently diagnosed with ovarian cancer. She was 87 at the time. The cancer had spread, but there was a possibility it was treatable, although this would have been very unpleasant and traumatic for her. I took her to hospital for tests, and whilst she was there she suffered cardiac arrest. They revived her, and I spent the next day with her, but unfortunately she had a heart attack the next day and died. I was absolutely distraut (in fact I'm crying now as I type this and it was 6 months ago). The only way I can cope is to keep thinking that she didn't suffer anything, she had the chance to say goodbye, and she didn't have to go through the pain of dying from cancer (which we had to watch my dad do several years ago). It's a very negative subject, and very hard to be positive about, but the fact she died peacefully, and painlessly and with her dignity still about her makes it so much more bearable.

Also, exercise, and a healthy diet have mad a big difference.

I'm sorry if I've rambled here - it's quite hard to precis.

I have coped by

Eating three healthy balanced meals a day
Taking regular exercise (even if its just a walk)
Getting 8 hours sleep a day
Trying to keep some structure and order in my life
Doing things I enjoy doing (even if its something simple)
Trying to find the bright side to every eventuallity
Trying not to be too hard on myself if things don't quite go right
Listening to relaxation tapes
Taking part in CBT (but change your therapist first)
Surround yourself with positive people - spending hours every day talking about my problems with a "friend" actually made me worse! Go out with people, and make a conscious effort

[Meg]

Hi Theresa,

I agree Burns book is bulky and heavy going which is why I also suggested Shads which is tiny in comparison.

With his explanations of thought processes your thoughts do indeed fit into several of his 10 catagories, eg I can't stand another day/week- can be in several as I'm sure today is not the first day you've had this thought. Anyway - no matter - as at this time it's not right for you. So lets move on and look at other things..

It's totally fine to sound off here - thats what Nic made it for. Having anxiety and panic is one of the scariest things out - if you're isolated it can seem even worse as the time can go slowly and there is noone to bounce silly thoughts off and you can get yourself into a tizzy very easily.

The not sleeping is an issue as everything always looks worse when you're tired.
Do you get off to sleep easily and then wake up or is getting to sleep a problem ?

Do you get out and about easily - do you go to a relaxation session of some sort Yoga, Tai'chi ? or maybe use some tapes at home ..

General nutrition and adequate hydration is important and a Vit B complex can help too.

Please consider giving the writing down negative thoughts and replacing them on paper a good try as it's very powerful when you go back and see how out of perspective some of them are.

If you are still functioning in your daily life it is unlikely that you do need hospitalization. I went through exactly those thoughts too as have lots of people on this site. None of them are unusual nor is the obsessive part unusual at all.

'I can just spend all day trying not to think about anxiety,' if you were asked absolutely not to think about a white elephant what is the first thing to come into your mind ? the same can be said for a song lyric - don't think of an Abba song and depending on your age you'll be off.

These thoughts will come for as long as you give them energy and power. I found it sooo hard and it took some determination and patience but let the thoughts appear and stay there if they want to - counter them with positive ones or if that's too much, just let them in and just carry on regardless and ignore them - just like Mums manage to do when toddlers are constantly under their feet. They manage to glide around the kitchen and although they know the whereabouts they manage to pretend they are invisable.

The key is not to let one thought of 'How did I get into such a mess ? ' spiral into ' oh look how awful things are for me , maybe I won't get better, Why am I not able to shift this. etc. Its the spiraling, spinning thoughts that do the damage.

If you're doing something distracting and still thinking Constantly about your anxiety then its not something you need to concentrate on enough. It's really got to be something that needs fine detail and a variety of thought that you enjoy like a hobby with bit size chunks. Intermittant anxious thoughts are fine- with time they become less and less. Try to change your daily routine, if you are able to - go for a drive out with someone and visit somewhere new.

Find someone who is less fortunate then yourself in a completely different way and help them out, visiting blind people and reading to them is great as is helping out at a day centre or an animal shelter. This was a real turning point for some people.

You are needing to build new neural pathways and these can take time and huge amount of repetition before they are anchored.

You don't mention whether you have been on any medication . If you're really feeling that this is too much to cope with at this time then there are a few of the newer meds that are great for obsessive thought patterns . Unless your GP is experienced get a referral back to your mental healthteam , they will be able to recommend one and maybe do some 1:1 with you .It will break the cycle for you.

Remember to pat yourelf on the pat heavily for every achievement and reward yourself.

I know it's so hard and sometimes it's difficult to see the way out but it does pass and with some work and det

[theresa]

Thanx for your replies, Meg and Lotty. I'm trying to follow all the advice - good nutrition, supplements, exercise tho' I'm currently struggling with getting back into a gym routine. I'm doing a yoga session but also struggling with this as it's sometimes hard to concentrate. I have been doing some voluntary work, one day with the local conservation volunteers however I'm getting bored with this and one day with an environment/horticulture charity which works with people (adults) with learning difficulties. I'm now struggling with this as they require a lot of attention and I feel so needy myself, so I end up feeling very resentful and then feel awful for feeing resentful.

I've tried lots of anti-depressants over the last 6 years or so but none seemed to have helped. I've been seeing a psychiatrist but didn't bother to make another appointment after my last visit as I end up feeling so much worse after I've seen him. A couple of sessions ago he was talking about ECT; the last session he was talking about trying a combination of a-ds, I'm feeling reluctant to add to the chemicals in my body. Meg, what are the newer drugs you mentioned.

Sleeping - I usually get off OK but wake after a few hours and then don't get back off again. Actually the awake time is when I'm most calm. I wake up with a big panicky, sweaty feeling but after I've calmed down from this I feel fairly relaxed - I don't have the physical sensations so much and my mind's not racing, in fact it's probably the best part of the day!

I get through 1 day and then feel anxious/depressed about all the other days stretching off into the future. The advice about creating new neural pathways was helpful - something to remind myself of when I start getting too depressed or an an anxiety 'roll'.

Your support is much appreciated.



I've recently started doing crosswords and have found I enjoy doing them, so that's something to be positive about.

Theresa

[Meg]

Hi Theresa,

Well done for making those changes in your life already.

Keep going with the gym, it will get easier. I cheat at Yoga all the time- not following the postures slowly enough- not concentrating on the guided meditation properly but it still has huge benefits.

The learning difficulties people day sounds too much - you need something diverting but not all encompassing. I agree look to see what you can change that to...

Could you have a nap in the afternoon to try to get another bout of sleep if you manage to get off to sleep ok .

There are new meds appearing each year and some are really good for obsessive thought processes. I would be inclined to go and discuss your obsessive negative thought pattern which is giving rise to your depression prior to taking a cocktail of several meds and prior to agreeing to having any ECT which is mainly used for unexplained persistant clinical depression.

Great about the crosswords- how about expanding that a bit to other word games . Keep it up.

let us know how you're doing.



Meg

Watch your thoughts, they become your words...
Watch your words, they become your actions... Watch your actions, they become your habits... Watch your habits, they become your character... Watch your character, it becomes your destiny...

[andrew]

hi theresa

first post so bear with me.

i can relate to your sleeping situation, i suppose best described as waking up in a panic/anxiety attack. fortunately for me, it hasn't been much an issue for over a year, unfortunately i dont have a certain path to show you as a way out.

i can remember things i was doing at the time. breaking my own isolation, actually talking about myself to other people (no panic do things). professional help, i was paying to see a counsellor and gathering infomation / advice from websites / literature / people.

i also used to struggle as to how to describe my anxiety, like g.a.d. isn't confusing enough and blows the concentration. i think you only need to deal with the things that are causing you problems. i can remember thinking too much about my anxiety as being 'obsessive' another form of anxiety and not really being helpful.

maybe go back to the psychiatrist. ask about transactional analysis - it might give you a way to look at your sleeping situation. i think theres very few successful short term answers, so try and make your next 'BUT', i'll give it a bit longer to see if it works.

and not wanting to be harping on too much. despite your troubles you are getting on with your life, the voluntary stuffs brilliant, posting here - facing your troubles, excellant and no doubt there's alot more to AFFIRM yourself about.

best wishes andrew

[Lottie32]

Hi Theresa

Glad you are making progress. I tried very hard to do Yoga, but I too found it very difficult to concentrate. The positions were easy, but I could never "switch off", or slow my mind down. Now I do other sports where I have to think about what I am doing all the time, (horse riding and squash). I find that I naturally have to concentrate on these sports, or I end up falling off/running into a wall etc.)

As regards the sleeping, do you read. I found that when I woke up and couldn't get back off to sleep, reading a good book helped. I would turn on a little reading light (not too bright), and just stay curled up under the covers with a book. Invariably, I would wake up sometime later, having fallen asleep on the book - so don't try this with one you are fond of, or one that somebody has leant you. I also do loads of word puzzles, and if you are not into reading, then try doing one of these in bed. (Better use a pencil though - you'll end up with inky sheets!!!)

It sound like you are really trying, but sometimes you can be too hard on yourself. Try to take each day at a time, and where possible don't think about tommorrow, next week, next month etc. It's quite hard, but once you start trying to change your thinking patterns it becomes easier.

Also, could I suggest that you change your charity job. You are bound to be resentful, and it's too much to ask of yourself to get involved with a very demanding group like this. Have you thought about trying something else instead. Visiting old people in hospital or at home can be quite good - particularly if you get a good talker - it can be a bit like listening to Jackanory. Or what about working in an Oxfam shop or similar?

Try not to be too hard on yourself, and I know its hard, but try to stay positive. You say you have an anxiety/depression free day - well if the next day isn't just keep reminding yourself that you were "fine" the day before, and you will be "fine" again.

Good luck, and Keep up the Hard Work!!

Lottie

Charlie

[theresa]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying now to take one day at a time and to not keep thinking about the next day, next week etc. I've just come back from doing a flower arranging course (week 3) and I'm finding it SO hard and I can't really describe in what way it's hard! My anxiety is just so high when I'm there. I've got a ton of thought processes going on and it seems too much to try and separate them out. Generally I just keep thinking that it's all too much, I'm trying to do too much and then I agonise about how recovery is all about trying to take small steps and if I can't manage to do a class how on earth can I identify any other small steps. Then I get upset about how anxious I've become, that over the years this condition has developed I just get worse with each year. I look at the other people in the class and wonder what it must be like 'inside their heads' as I feel that I'm in a completely different world. I've forgotten how it feels like to not feel anxious. How can you build self esteem, try to keep moving forward when doing anything new is so difficult. When I was well i found it hard to tackle new things, now it seems impossible - Catch 22. Not too far from where I live, but unfortunately in the next county so I'm not eligible, is a scheme to help people with mental health problems learn new skills and I imagine this must be a much more supportive atmosphere.

To try and end again with something positive, I've started doing jigsaws which can be very absorbing.

Thanks for the support.


Theresa

[Zoe]

I have been looking at this computer screen for what feels like forever, wondering what to type. My anxiety is really bad especially when driving and I don't know what to do about it.

[nomorepanic]

Zoe

My panic is bad when driving too - email me at nomorepanic@btinternet.com and we can talk some more

Nicola

[Cheyenne90]

i have the exact problem except now since ive had it for 4 straight months its just mainly depression i cant think its like my mind is numb to everything ill be driving but im day dreaming while im driving idk what to do.........

[xBettyBoopx]

OMG this thread is 6 years old!!:ohmy: