Adverse reaction Diary [Archive]

Iggy131313

10-09-12, 12:29

Ok, new day, new diary

After tons of reasearch I have at last found out that I have been suffering from the kindling effect which is when trying to restart an ssri that you have been on previously it can either not work or turn paradoxical/adverse on you.

I have spoken to 3 others on here who have suffered the same fate.

I have also read that the central nervous system after taking such a kicking during the adverse reaction really needs time to recover.

I also now understand why I shut myself away in the bedroom with the curtains closed, its because I am now ultra sensitive to stimuli, the dark quiet space is a comfort to me because its a comfort to my central nervous system.

So after my 5 days upto 30mg I have done 2 days on 20mg and will continue that until saturday when I will take my first 10mg and do that for a week to try and come off them. Its only once Im off the meds that I can begin my rocovery from this nightmare.

I woke up very anxious this morning and feeling sick, very shaky, my hubby took my little one to school and I went back to sleep until 11am. now im awake and on my laptop in bed which is about to conk out as the screen has become very blurry and I keep getting the blue screen of death, god knows what Im gonna do when its gone.

I am also getting the brain heat I have always had on the cit, my brain get hot in certain places, different places at different times but I can feel something happening in there.

I have moments of feeling ok but on the whole im no longer the person I was before starting meds, I wish I had gone to hospital on the 4th day when I felt I needed to but was scared they would commit me. lol, I only had 1 panic attack before restarting these meds!

anyway I will track my recovery here and hopefully one day I will the person I was again.

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------

Since starting cit these are the symtoms I continue to have

1) severe/moderate anxiety - terrible until about 12am then its hit and miss to when it comes on, usually ok by night time but not always.

2) shaking in arms and legs

3) memory issues - sometimes cant finish a sentence or find it hard to bring a word to mind that is very simple.

4) ultra sensitive to stimuli

5) stuck in bedroom all day

6) brain heat

Sparkle1984

10-09-12, 13:58

Good luck, I hope you start to feel better once you come off them. :hugs:

Iggy131313

10-09-12, 14:02

Gosh so do I sparkle, but I have read that people can take 18 months - 2 years to recover from this reaction and am very worried about that.

I think the average time to recover from an adverse reaction is 6-8 weeks but it all depends on the body chemistry.

I will say one thing, people need to be sure that they need to stop their meds before they stop because of the risk of this and also the fact that I stopped cold turkey last time would add to thie risk of this kindling effect.

restarting ssris can be more dangerous with each restart, I should have recognised that my side effects were way more than the norm and gone to the hospital then but you live and learn eh?

keep me in your prayers people that my central nervous system can recover quickly from the chemical storm

nicola1980

10-09-12, 15:16

Good luck chick, you'll soon have that spring back in your step im sure :hugs: xx

Sparkle1984

10-09-12, 18:03

All this about the kindling effect has set me wondering - I've had several anxiety episodes throughout my life, but this is the only time that I've had the courage to ask for help, so this is my first time on citalopram (or any other SSRI for that matter). I'm now worried that if I feel better and I come off it in a few months time, what will happen if I get another anxiety episode a few years down the line? I seem to get them every few years. So now I'm thinking would it be safer if I just stayed on the tablets forever? (Although I'm not sure whether my family would be too happy about that, but it's something I need to consider). Has anyone got any advice about this?

Iggy131313

10-09-12, 18:14

No No No, sparkle, MOST PEOPLE can go on and off ssris with no problems at all. But SOME people cannot, no one understands why.

I have not posted this to scare or influence anybody just to share my story with anyone who is suffering the same and to reassure them that they are not alone.

Most people on here have restarted many times with no issue, I think Nicola had an adverse reaction on her 4th attempt.

It was my bad luck that I had the adverse reaction on my second attempt.

In one way I wish I had stayed on the cit, never came off them but thats in the past.

Also its worth noting that the chances of getting this kindling effect is much bigger if you stop cold turkey, so when the time comes for you to come off just do it slowly, I quit cold turkey last time so that could be why this happened to me.

please, please dont think this is the norm. Its not.

xxx

Sparkle1984

10-09-12, 19:01

OK, thanks putting my mind at rest. :) I knew the kindling effect doesn't happen to everyone, I just wasn't sure how common it was. I don't have my review with my doctor until November, so I'll keep getting repeat prescriptions until then, and then I'll just have to see what happens. I definitely will come off gradually, although I'm only on 10mg so it shouldn't be too difficult.

Iggy131313

10-09-12, 19:19

thats the key matey, come off slowly and give your body time to ajust, that way you have hardly any chance at all of this happening to you.

sounds like cit is really suiting you, its great to hear. xx

laura442

10-09-12, 20:54

I really think you are making the right decision Iggy, I hope you get back to normal asap ! Is that really true that it is more dangerous with every restart of ssri's ???????

Iggy131313

10-09-12, 21:10

From what I have read that seems to be the Case...But especially is the ssri is cold turkyed or not weaned off properly

Dr Tracy Blake is the leading expert in adverse reactions caused by ssris, this paragraph is from a post on paxilprogress

"...when "some" people go cold turkey (or close to cold turkey) off of an ssri, they "sometimes" only have a small window of time before they can go back on an ssri without causing further damage to their withdrawal. for people that this is the case for, this window is usually varies from 2 to 6 weeks. charly groderick and others warn about this. sometimes when a person goes cold turkey, after a certain period of time, the brain sees the ssri as the enemy. this is known as the "kindling effect." this has happened to numerous people on this website. shea took a single dose of lexapro 4 months after her cold turkey withdrawal and went into convulsions and went to the ER. i tried taking zoloft 2 and 1/2 weeks after i went cold turkey and got terrible nosebleeds and migrains so i quit again. after trying to go back on 2 months later, one dose of zoloft thru me into the emergency room with akathesia. several months later, i tried only taking "2 milligrams" of zoloft and guess what happened? my skin started burning and i got akathesia. charly groderick himself quit prozac cold turkey and a couple of months later took a single dose of prozac which also put him in the ER and that is what made him sick for years. rob robinson warns in one of his posts that going back on an ssri can make things much worse once you are in a cold turkey withdrawal. dr. ann blake tracy warns on her website that each time you go back on the ssri tends to be more dangerous and this is possibly why."

It all makes sense to me, but I am a minority, like I said I have only spoken to 4 others on here who have experienced this and there are hundreds who havent so its nothing to worry about, just something to bear in mind if you keep getting worse and dont understand why

Iggy131313

11-09-12, 15:07

Ok Day 2

Awoke with horrid anxiety, hubbt got up, got our little boy sorted and took him to school, I soothed myself my telling myself thats its just my Central nervous system is in shock and needs some tlc and went back to sleep, at 10am my hubby came back to bed as he had been watching tennis until 3am and we both went back to sleep until 2pm!

All my body and mind seem to want to do is sleep, and sit quietly and peacefully, I supose it makes sence because its putting the least stress on my CNS.

My biggest fear at the moment is that I go through a protracted withdrawel so tonights the first day Im gonna go back to 10mg and I will try to stay on that for AT LEAST a week maybe more but I can feel my brain desperatly trying to recover, and I want to give it the chance but I need to be so careful.

I am waiting for my referral to come through to the phyc, its ridiculous that they have made me wait so long, I may make a drs appointment for tomorrow and chase it up.

So my anxiety is reletivly low at the moment as it often is in the afternoon, but thats prob because Im sat up in the bedroom, If I was trying to live any kind of normal life that wouldnt be the case.

I will update later, wish me luck. x

Iggy131313

11-09-12, 19:14

So not a bad afternoon, all considered, I got up when my hubby went to get my son at 3pm cleaned the kitchen, living room, did soe laundry and then when they got home went to my sisters to deliver her birthday card.

I had very minimal anxiety during all of this but also have given myself permission to withdraw to the bedroom whenever I need to, that helps.

I took 10mg at 4pm and whether its that or still my reactionmy head is throbbing and my vision keeps going shakey, you know like side to side I have to keep focusing on different things because I dont like the feeling. The headache is quite sharp, on and on we go eh?

Im also still shaking but I have the tremors all day everyday now so Im used to that and I feel very delicate, vulnerable and weak and of course I am already dreading the morning , but whats the point? each day I wake up it might be bad but I hope it brings me closer to my recovery from this nightmare.

I hope everyone is doing well. xx

Fay_elizabeth

11-09-12, 20:39

Hi Iggy,

I have been reading this with interest and just wanted to say I wish you well on your recovery. Keep us updated! What you've gone through so far sounds horrible, I really hope you feel good again soon.

Iggy131313

11-09-12, 20:46

Thankyou Fay, Im trying to stay positive and just hope that I come out of this chemical storm with the strength to make a full recovery. x

We all have our battles to face and yes mine so far has been a bloomin horror show but I hope to come out the other side a stronger and more confident person, lol, I would never write that in the morning!

Iggy131313

12-09-12, 14:47

Day 3

well, I thought my last birthday was rubbish, where a student staged a dirty protest, and I came home from work covered in poo. But no, THIS IS THE WORST BIRTHDAY EVER!

Happy birthday to me, I am 32 today.

I took a 5mg diaz at 1am because I couldnt sleep, that sent me off and I managed to sleep until 11.30, got up for a bit and then sat in my bedroom again for a while.

At 1pm I got myself ready and walked down to the supermarket to buy a birthday cake, I know my son will want me to have one, I had minimal anxiety but felt quite disconnected and surreal.

Im going to go with my hubby to get him from school in an hour too, and see how my nerves take that. Im kinda annoyed with myself for taking the diaz, I dont like taking them and I should have just let myself fall asleep naturally. I will try harder in future.

As A liverpool FC supporting family today is a big day with the truth at last being out. Its great that recognition has been made but not helpful for the families who have suffered for so long.

Remember the 96 who died today guys, men, women and children. and no matter how long it takes me to recover from this hell, the mothers and fathers of the children who died that never will never escape theirs.

TJSMITH

12-09-12, 15:48

Don't beat yourself up about the diazapan if it helps as it doesn't for me really wish it did.
Happy birthday :)
I didn't do anything other than cry in my birthday this year either as that time was when I was scared to go out so you not alone, hopefully next year will be better x

Iggy131313

12-09-12, 16:08

Diaz doesnt work for me either Tracy, but it does help me sleep but doesnt take any anxiety away.

Thanks for the happy birthday wishes, lets hope both our birthdays next year are something to celebrate. x

nicola1980

12-09-12, 17:10

:birthday: i also spent my last birthday in march in tears and an anxious state :weep: roll on my next one so i can enjoy it!! xx

Iggy131313

13-09-12, 18:53

Day 4

ok, 3rd day of being on 10mg and I think Im going into a little withdrawel.

I couldnt sleep last night and had horrible tummy ache so got up at 12 and read a magazine downstairs until 2am then I came back to bed and managed to get to sleep.

I woke up at 11.15, got up, noticed how much my body was shaking, and went back to bed to rest until 1pm.

Then I got myself sorted and went to the supermarket for some bits, came back and tidied up the house. I did all this with minimal anxiety (although it was, of course, present) and then picked up my little boy from school.

yesterday and today I have had some brain fog but this afternoon and still with me now is a return to depersonalisation, what a horrible feeling it is, like Im real but Im not real, total dream like state and NOT in a good way.

I tried to stick it out and stay downstairs with the family but now at 6.30 I have given in and come to sit in the bedroom, I cant handle pretending to my 3 year old that Im fone when I feel so drugged up and out of it.

Im hungry and will be making some steak butties when my hubby has taken fred to bed, so Im hoping Ill feel a bit more with it later on.

so todays symptom stew contains -

anxiety
depression
depersonalisation
headaches
brain fog

mix then all together, and stick in your brain... delicious..NOT!

nicola1980

13-09-12, 19:22

How long you staying on the 10mg for hun? xx

Iggy131313

13-09-12, 20:01

I guess as long as it takes me to stabalise, I deffo want to stay on this until my next period is over, I think thats the best time to make any changes as when those hormones get thrown into the mix its not good. Feel really panicy and horrible tonight, I guess the 20 for 2 days 30 for 5 days 20 for 3 days and now 10 for 3 days is bound to take its toll on me,

People on paxil progress have been warning me not to try and come off too quickly its a real catch 22

Iggy131313

14-09-12, 19:46

Day 5

day 5 already! gosh!!

ok, so have been getting tummy cramps at around midnight for the past few days which keep me up for a couple of hours, I guess that w/d from my drop.

I woke up at 11.30am - seems to be the pattern at the moment, analysed myself for symptoms, im scared, but that could be my own fear and up I got.

I watched a film and felt very flat and depressed but not TOO bad then went to the local high street to get the shopping in, had, once again that strange feeling of disconnection and depersonalisation.

When I got home the eye wobble set in where it felt like my eyes were rocking from side to side, very odd indeed! That only lasted an hour or so and I picked up my son from school.

I had a relaxing bath this evening but AGAIN have had some DP, I hope it passes soon, I HATE that feeling.

Spikes of anxiety have needled me throughout the day but nothing that lasts too long, I just notice its there and carry on!

So not a BAD day, not a GOOD day, just another day!

lets hope things start to improve, but I do notice a difference being on 10, once again I feel better on 10 than I do at the higher doses, not BETTER as in Im cured but not as bad, at least Im not suicidal and theres alot to be said for that!

karenp

15-09-12, 17:01

You've suffered so much Iggy and really hope you are miles better soon. I wonder if I was always so bad starting back up on the Citalopram for the same reason then, I was on it 3 times even though the first time was worst I think as I had my worst ever panic attack on it.
As you know, I decided to go on Mirtazapine when I started having panic attacks back in March because my marriage was over but I wish I'd quit that too right at the start as now my doctors have cut all my other meds down (diazepam and zopiclone) I am a total anxious mess and am under the care of my local crisis team now I am so hyper. I've been on Mirtazapine 6 months and though my divorce was horrible at first it's settled down and my life is falling inicely into place or would be if I wasn't so anxious, so I'm going to my doctors on Monday and asking to come off my A/D too as I really believe it's made me miles more poorly. I'm absolutely terrified it's ME and not the Mirt but it's never going to suddenly work now surely, not after 6 months? Does it really take 6 to 8 weeks to see if it is the A/D or just you? Gosh it'll be bloomin Christmas then before we may feel a bit better! But hey as long as we do. All the very best of luck darl xxxx

---------- Post added at 17:01 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------

I never had any probs at all coming off Citalopram but I was 100% better by the time I did withdraw from it so that probs helped. I never felt a thing and came off pretty quickly too all 3 times, I was on it 3 years last time I took it too and am just so sorry my doctor persuaded me to come off it last July.

Iggy131313

15-09-12, 17:09

Day 6

another day, another disaster zone!

It was my 'get up' this morning with my little one so my hubby could have a lye in. But I was up until 3am as insomnia has seemed to have set in and then when I went back to bed I was tossing and turning all night, hardly had any sleep.

So my baby boy woke us up at 8am and I got up with him, it wasnt TOO bad, not as bad as last week I dont think so the 10mg seems to be better, but it may have been because I was so tired it was almost like being sedated.

I sat quietly on the sofa with my boy (he has a cold so will do this at the moment) and we watched some mindless kids tv together.

At 10.30 my hubby got up and I was soooo tired that I went back to bed for a couple of hours and had some HORRIF nightmares where I was being tortured etc. Nasty.

Got up at 1.30pm and tidyed around, not feeling great but not too bad, then went down to the high street and got some bits, not too much anxiety but had a little cry as a walked along.

Now Im up and about, which is one thing, and Im looking forward to x factor tonight, hopefully that will take my mind off things a little.

karenp

16-09-12, 09:13

Hope you have a better day today, I've just been at the walk in centre and have the crisis team coming to see me today. My doctors have cut my diazepam down and because my AD's not working at all I have had a weekend of panic attacks during the night as I am an insomniac too. I just feel so bad at the moment and scared of coming off the Mirtazapine if it's not that making me so anxious and it is really just all ME but if you can do it Iggy then I am sure I can, I don't have any other choice as it's pointless carrying on on an AD that after 6 months may as well be lumps of chalk or I am reacting very badly to it!
Was there any bad singers on X FACTOR last night? I can only remember every one being good! There seems ot be so many good people this year too (:

Iggy131313

16-09-12, 15:49

I agree Karen, they all seemed to be quite good last night, oh dear about Gazzas daughter though - hyper cringe!!

Im glad you are getting some help. Remind me Karen, when did you last come off cit? and tell me about your history of anxiety?

karenp

16-09-12, 16:18

I came off last July. My anxiety began when I was pregnant with my little boy who is 9. I was sick 24/7 and started having nervous feelings so I was put on Sertraline at first but moved onto Citalopram because I had such a bad panic attack 2 days after start up. Anyhow, Citalopram was just as bad, infact I had an even worse panic attack but stuck with it and though I never felt 100% the whole 9 months because of hormones, it did help me get through them and the day William arrived my anxiety lifted altogether. (I was also terrified of child birth which I think had alot to do with my anxiety and ended up having a C/S!)
A year later, after coming off Citalopram I was getting married and knew back then it was a huge mistake but had this 11 year old baby and the mortgage etc so went ahead with wedding but ended up back on Citalopram which was just as horrible for weeks starting up on.
I was fine for a couple of years after that so came off it again but in 2007, we lost our little yorkshire terrier, we'd had form a 6 week old puppy so I had a panic attack, wen tto my doctors and he put me right back on the Cit which was really bad to start up on again that time and it took longer for me to get well, I had to go on 40mg's but had only been on 20mils the other 2 times!
Any how when I started with anxiety again this March because I'd just had enough of being unhappily married, I just took Lorazepam for a month and was fine most days, it was only when Anthony was going to be home that I felt anxious and panicy but my doctor made me go on an AD again so I refused Citalopram as I just didn't want to go through the start up hell again but Mirtazapine hasn't helped me at all. I am 50 times worse than before I went on it so wonder if I've had a bad reaction to it, either that or it's just not worked so I've got more and more poorly. :scared15:
How's your day been any how? I've got a mental health doctor looking at my medication tomorrow as someone has finally realised Mirt's doing nothing for me (possibly doing me more damage) after I went to the hospital last weekend and got involved with their crisis team. You never see the same doctor at my surgery and they just want me off the Diazepam and Zopiclone and don't listen to me at all when I tell them "but the mirts not working one bit, I am more poorly now than back in March!"
Don't forget X FACTOR is on again tonight (:

Iggy131313

21-09-12, 12:14

Day 12

its not been too bad a week, Ive deffo been better on the 10mg but Im still having a bad reaction, my bladder stopped working the other day, this can be common in adverse reactions and my face twitches quite alot, not a good look.

im dreading next week as its my pmt week but ill just have to see how it goes.

Ive not been hiding away in the bedroom this week at all which is good progress and instead sit downstairs, Ive been going to the local shops every day and picking up my son from school.

Im finding it hard to sleep and dont drop off until about 3am which is annoying but I just try to sooth myself with the fact that I know what it is and I will heal in time.

Its been 3 months since I was launched into hell and I know it could be 18 months before I recover from this, I can only hope and pray that my recovery comes faster than that.
xx

Iggy131313

30-09-12, 20:04

Day 21

well Im still on 10mg and still suffering very badly, Ive had better days here and there but none of my 'better days' are anywhere close to how I was before.

I have been corresponding with a very high standing neurophychiatrist in California, he is one of the leading experts in ssris and the long term effects.

I now understand what was happening. SSRI withdrawal is a strange thing,

phase 1 - occurs quite quickly after stopping the drug, is mainly physical in nature with sickness, bowel issues and head zaps etc.

phase 2 - occurs between 4 weeks and 9 months of stopping the drug and includes anxiety, depression and a whole host of terrible neurological issues (this is mainly if you cold turkey like I did)

so the panic attack I had 4 months after stopping the citalopram and the subsequent anxiety feelings that I had never had before were actually a sign of w/d. Most people when feeling this think it is the original problem resurfacing and go back to the drs for the drug again, just like I did,

The Pdoc explained that sometimes restarting a drug once you are in w/d will NOT alleviate the terrible symptoms but aggravate them.

Most drs and pdocs do not believe in long term w/d fro ssris but there are those who recognise it. The recovery period is 18 months - 2 years and thats what Im facing now.

If anyone who ever reads this feels like they are suffering this them feel free to PM me, I can give anyone who wants to know more information. But I will say this...NEVER COLD TURKEY its the second biggest regret of my life, the first being starting to take this muck in the first place, it has ruined my life and given me a 2 year prison sentence as far as Im concerned.

This is the worst time of the month for me and I hope that in another week I will be feeling more positive, but at the moment things are still very hard, I am having lots of physical and emotional issues but at least I have had validation from a very respectable and informed dr who acctually understands the dangers around these drugs and the knowledge of whats happening to me.

bernie1977

30-09-12, 20:10

Sorry you're having such a bad time, I had similar problems getting off venlafaxine. I will never take another SSRI or SNRI as they didn't work for me and made me very ill and the withdrawal was awful. I know these drugs help millions of people but they obviously aren't for us.

I hope you continue in your recovery and I wish you well

Iggy131313

30-09-12, 20:13

thanks Bernie, ven is terrible to w/d from I hear, how long have you been drug free?

bernie1977

30-09-12, 20:19

Hi Iggy, yes it was awful. The worse thing was feeling like I was getting electric shocks through my head and constant nausea.

I've been off antidepressants for over a year now but my anxiety is awful. I have panic disorder with agoraphobia. I'm going to ask my support worker to speak to my psychiatrist tomorrow to see if I can go back on Trazodone. This is the only AD I've had that doesn't give me awful side effects.

Honestly you have my sincere sympathy as I understand the hell you are going through.

Iggy131313

30-09-12, 20:24

NO BERNIE!! YOUR NEARLY THERE!!!!!

Ven w/d lasts for 18 months, PLEASE dont take anything else until that time is up!!

stick with benzos if you need something, but trust me when I say that part of the anxiety that you are feeling now is still w/d from ven, the full recovery time is 18months - 24 months.

Do you get windows and waves in your symptoms? ie - feeling ok for a few days and then BOOM bad again?

bernie1977

30-09-12, 20:30

Sorry I wasn't clear in my last post. It's over a year since I was on any AD. The last one I was on was Trazodone then before that Mirtazipine. It's 3-4 years since I was on venlafaxine and before that I was on citalopram. I need to do something as I'm housebound with agoraphobia as the panic attacks are so bad.

I thought I'd give trazodone another go. If it doesn't work then fine, getting off that is a walk in the park compared to what I experienced on venlafaxine and citalopram! I get a prescription for diazepam every month but don't always take them as I don't want to become addicted.

Iggy131313

30-09-12, 20:39

Its bloody hard isnt it?

I hope you fond something that works for you. If there was something I could take to stop how Im feeling right now I would take it without hesitation, but I know that for me, all I can do is wait this out and suffer the onslaught,

Im very angry and I truly belive that SSRIS/SRNIS will not be available to many people in the future, not once the truth about protracted w/d is acctually recognised by the medical proffession.

drs will say that w/d only lasts a few weeks or a month well there are HUNDREDS of people suffering from w/d many many months and even years after stopping, and then trying to reinstate just makes things worse still!

I should never have been given cit in the first place and I wish I had not tryed to reinstate, although I have learned an awful lot. xxxxx