View Full Version : Why I don't think CBT will work for me
CBT is about exposing yourself to your feared situation to learn that your fear never happens, i.e. you won't actually pass out/have a heart attack/faint/stop breathing/go insane etc.
But my fear is just simply having the panic attack. That to me is the worst thing that can happen. I fully understand that no symptoms will harm me or kill me. I don't get shortness of breath of think my heart is going to give in. I don't think I'm going mad and I even know the panic attack will eventually stop.
But the panic attack itself is absolutely frightening to me. I just don't want one. If I have one then I will either avoid that situation again or I will be on high alert and feel uneasy the entire time. Even if I don't have a full blown panic attack but feel very scared and uneasy, I don't feel a success from that. I feel that then going out I just feel horrible.
I do hope I am wrong because I love the idea of CBT.
Anyone else have this similar fear?
I like most other anxiety sufferers also have a terrible fear of the "PANIC ATTACK."
I found CBT really helpful, I did not learn any exposure techniques relating to panic attacks. I did learn how to slow my breathing down if it happened - relaxation techniques that would help to relax my body when tense; and many many more useful things.
Don't knock it until you try it.:)
I fear those horrible feelings you get of going into panic, so much so that I have cut myself off over time from social situations and even visiting people.
I found my therapist not that good when I read what people have done in there sessions.
I found mine telling me to just go and do it as nd don't think what if.
When I said if I did that I would fall at the first hurdle, I need to build myself up starting small. I was telling her lol she just said yer do that and whatever plans I had don't wait to see what I am like just do what I planned that day regardless of how I feel aghhh.
There's now way I could do this, she even told me to do things without taking a diazepam because how do I know I can't do it. Which fair enough if you havnt got social problems and high anxiety you can stay in the situation.
I didn't think I learnt anything from her, even when I was that bad I couldn't stomach food and was wrenching she told me to go round supermarket and look for something different or what I fancied I had no appetite what so ever !!!!
I've got a review in 5 weeks to see how things are going, don't really want to go back, but MH worker thinks I should but he's not going to call one of his colleagues is he
But it just depends who you get, so wait and see.
Hi Steveo
I have sent you a PM which may clarify this a bit for you
I didn't post it here because it is in response to your PM so my reply may be confusing to others. Maybe if it helps you can eventually share with everyine else.
Robin
I agree with BobbyDog. CBT is about learning the skills to manage the panic when it happens.
A panic attack is frightening to all of us. That is why we are all members of this forum. Our anxieties may take different forms but the fear is real to everyone. The fear of fear, it is so common. You are not alone in what you are going through and I certainly understand that at this time you are having enough problems getting through your own day. Believe me I have been there and it is very scarey. Also believe me that this is a blip, you can work through this, a time will come when you will feel less anxious and you can make a full recovery.
Do not reject the notion of learning the skills that CBT can teach you. You may not be ready to accept just yet but the time will come when you will be more open to trying.
After my breakdown I completely closed my mind to everything. My automatic response was 'I can't' or 'that won't work for me.' My brain just could not cope with any new suggestion. CBT didn't work for me then because I closed my mind to it. I didn't understand it and was frightened to try it. I was also terrified that I would have to face my panic head on, just like you it was something I avoided at all cost. Because of my fear of the panic I became housebound for 20 years.
That was some years ago and I am using CBT now. My head is in a different place and I am willing to accept new ideas and suggestions. I am learning skills that are teaching me not to fear the panic but to accept it and carry on doing what I want to do. Because of the skills CBT gives I am now getting out of my front door and taking the dog for a walk.
Stay open to the thought of CBT. It doesn't have to be now but just be aware that when you feel ready it is something for you to try.
My opinion has massively changed now thanks to the incredible CBT4PANIC program that was so kindly introduced to me by the very amazing Robin Hall.
The program is incredible and Robin is so very helpful. I am doing little bits each day and it's so far been the most helpful thing I've ever done therapy wise. I highly recommend CBT4PANIC.
AuntieMoosie
23-02-13, 23:37
Oh Steve I'm so pleased that you're finding it helpful.
Seeing an NHS CBT therapist didn't work for me a few years back, but when I joined NMP and saw the CBT4PANIC therapy, I thought I'd give it a try.
I had been housebound with agoraphobia from 2004 right up until the end of last year when I was able to start going out and working on my CBT:)
I wish you all the best Steve, I'm sure you will do well with it :)
Hi Steveo
Glad that you are finding the programme of help. If you have come up with those alternative thoughts I mentioned and a list of your safety behaviours send them to me and I can help you expand on them. Dont be worried about asking questions.
Robin
Thankyou Robin. I have written some down but waiting for another bigger panic attack to really work on them. You have been so helpful. I don't know how I'll ever be able to thank you for everything you've done for me.
Steve I am really pleased that CBT4panic is helping you. I also have found it to be very helpful and it is changing my life for the better :D
star2sparkle
25-02-13, 17:59
I hope no one minds me putting a spanner in the works here (only a very small spanner!) but I really do believe also that CBT works but that it should be done in conjunction with a therapist...especially if you have been suffering for a number of years. I think it is very wise to employ CBT tactics that you can learn from Robin Hall's excellent books, of course, but to not embark say, on an exposure programme without extra assistance. We all do respond similarly and the techniques to calm down are the same, but our reasons for becoming that way are different. CBT attacks the problem head on but ignores the reasons behind it. It was partly introduced to stop the lengthy procedure of psychoanalysis but in doing so, has a tendency to ignore that we are all unique. I'm not into lying on a couch, bemoaning my childhood (!)...but we did all get here for different reasons. Sometimes, these original fears need to be addressed, to prevent them from returning. I was told the other day that valium is papering over the cracks and I agree, but sometimes CBT does that too, but much more effectively!
I can only speak for myself but Robin has given a lot of extra assistance and contacted me to advise on a personal level. :)
AuntieMoosie
25-02-13, 20:56
star2sparkle I like that you've thrown a spanner in the works cos it's a very worthy spanner :) and I have to say that I do partly agree with what you're saying.
I did see a CBT therapist in the flesh, so to speak, a few years back, unfortunately it didn't work for me.
When I found that I could do it online, in my own home and in my own time I thought I'd give it a shot........I'm happy to say that I'm making steady progress :D So I think that you can be equally successful whichever way you choose to do it :)
Where I fully agree with you is your saying about how it doesn't deal with things in the past.
When I saw my therapist, she told me that it really doesn't matter how we got to where we are now because we can learn new skills to deal with it in the here and now, I didn't agree with her then and I still don't agree with this theory now either.
I do fully understand CBT and the way it works and it's a damn good therapy and I'd never knock it, it's helping me so much right now :)
But I don't believe that it doesn't matter how we got to where we are.
It does matter very much. I had 4 years of psychotherapy back in the early 90's. I had to deal with some very painful childhood issues. Those issues were effecting my everyday life and how I was behaving. It was through having that psychotherapy that I'm the person that I am today, my therapist was absolutely excellent, she helped and supported me fully for the years that I was going through the therapy and I was able to learn so much about "me" and why I was the way that I was then :)
As you so rightly say, you cannot just cover over these issues, they will not go away by doing that, I know cos I tried my hardest to do that and it turned me into a very angry person, because, as I learned whist doing my psychotherapy, I was using the anger as a way of covering up the emotional pain and hurt that I was really feeling.
So CBT at that stage would most definitely not have worked for me. I had to deal with other issues first to be able to move on.
CBT is now being successful, so far, for me because I can do the programme and follow it in a completely rational way, I wouldn't have been able to do that before my psychotherapy:)
So to round off. I say that both psychotherapy and CBT therapy both have lot's to offer and much is to be gained from both :) But it is my opinion that you really need to deal with any underlying issues with psychotherapy before embarking on CBT therapy.
It is then that the two therapy's become very successful :)
star2sparkle
25-02-13, 21:06
AuntieMoosie, I think we could be very similar with this. I have many issues that need to be explored but I also do very much value CBT. I know Robin can help on a personal level, which he has also done for me too because he is such a decent, caring guy but at the end of the day, the actual underlying fears that are causing that adrenalin need to be dealt with. Graded exposure can assist here too but sometimes fears can be very complex and tied up with all sorts of childhood memories and even other disorders. I just worry sometimes that people may try CBT at home without that extra support, don't like to think of anyone suffering with their own DIY therapy even with Robin's very best of intentions. Sometimes I think CBT is a bit of a sticking plaster but like you said so well, AuntieMoosie, with or after psychoanalysis, it can work wonders. But we are all individual at the end of the day. Just like Robin is an inspiration, I think you are too AuntieMoosie with your fabulous name :hugs:
I agree with you too, The CBT has helped me in that I can cope with the panic and anxiety better and helped me in social situations but I still had deeper issues that are affecting me from my past. Like Auntie Moosie I am now having intense psychotherapy which is helping me deal with these deeper issues. You are right Auntie Moosie I can now see how the 2 therapies together working together are helping me. :)
Finding why it all began may help for some people but not everyone. I have agoraphobia which developed gradually from having emetophobia from a young age.
I can remember having a fear of vomiting from a very early age but no one in my family knows why this started. Even if I could somehow remember a traumatic vomiting experience from when I was under 5 years old then I do not believe this would help me to recover from my agoraphobia now.
If there is a specific underlying issue for anxiety them yes maybe further therapy can help but not everyone can attribute it to a certain thing or experience and therefore just CBT can help for them.
CBT is about exposing yourself to your feared situation to learn that your fear never happens, i.e. you won't actually pass out/have a heart attack/faint/stop breathing/go insane etc.
But my fear is just simply having the panic attack. That to me is the worst thing that can happen. I fully understand that no symptoms will harm me or kill me. I don't get shortness of breath of think my heart is going to give in. I don't think I'm going mad and I even know the panic attack will eventually stop.
But the panic attack itself is absolutely frightening to me. I just don't want one. If I have one then I will either avoid that situation again or I will be on high alert and feel uneasy the entire time. Even if I don't have a full blown panic attack but feel very scared and uneasy, I don't feel a success from that. I feel that then going out I just feel horrible.
I do hope I am wrong because I love the idea of CBT.
Anyone else have this similar fear?
You are saying "I knowingly surrender to a fear of nothing". It might be that you have a phobia about having panic attacks, which would certainly put you in a bind.
But the panic attack itself is absolutely frightening to me. I just don't want one.Whether you want a panic attack or not, part of you knows you will have them. You wouldn't be in this situation if you didn't. You are creating a moebius loop in your thoughts and behaviour. This means your thought pattern is taking you nowhere, so it is ultimately counter-productive if you ever want to move forward in life.
Try looking at it from a different perspective. Do you want to have panic attacks at intervals for the rest of your life, or do you want to face them now and get them over with so you can move forward into a future that isn't dominated by anxiety?
Whenever you choose to surrender, you are giving away all your power and control.
By choosing to strive, you are taking ownership of your life, and that is like poison to anxiety. Panic attacks cannot prevail if you hold your nerve, grit your teeth and say, "You know what, I can do this - I can get through this - I can be the man I want to be, and the panic attacks can go and screw themselves."
Evening Psycho,
I'm confused by this:
Whenever you choose to surrender, you are giving away all your power and control.
By choosing to strive, you are taking ownership of your life, and that is like poison to anxiety. Panic attacks cannot prevail if you hold your nerve, grit your teeth and say, "You know what, I can do this - I can get through this - I can be the man I want to be, and the panic attacks can go and screw themselves."
This is fighting the anxiety, doesn't that make you more tense and therefore the anxiety worse. I thought it was best to accept and allow the panic, or is surrendering not the same as accepting, I don't know. I get that we must believe that we can achieve anything we put our minds too but the anxiety and panic still comes back and bites me on the bum everytime I think I'm in control and over it.
Sam
Surrender and acceptance are different things.
When Claire Weekes says "surrender", she means to let the anxiety have its reign, and not to burn energy denying that the anxiety exists. She is talking about acceptance.
When I say "surrender", I mean giving up on the hope of recovery. Surrender is really a military term, describing the situation where soldiers cease their efforts to resist and deliver themselves to the enemy as prisoners of war. So if you surrender, you become a prisoner. Do you want to be a prisoner?
When I talk about "fighting", I mean to stand up for yourself; to acknowledge that while some anxiety is a necessary part of survival (this is acceptance), excessive anxiety is destructive and you do not wish to continue in a state of excessive anxiety. You deliver a clear and sustained message to yourself that you will recover, your anxiety levels will reduce and you will not be a prisoner.
How do we fight? By having clear and simple goals to guide ourselves, by learning to trust ourselves and by learning to trust that hope exists no matter what happens next.
Hope is something that exists outside of ourselves. We don't always see it, but that doesn't change the fact that it exists. You don't see the sun on a cloudy day, but you know it is there behind the clouds.
Why does hope exist? It exists because hope is an idea, and as I've said before on this forum, millennia of religious wars have proven that you cannot destroy an idea. Choose to believe in it, or choose not to, that is down to everyone individually and is a decision that will affect the course of your life.
Will you believe in hope or will you be a prisoner?
I'm aware of what you're saying. Obviously though it's not as easy as that or this forum wouldn't exist and we would all be getting along with our lives.
Of course I don't wish for anxiety to take over my life but myself and possibly everyone else on here is finding it very hard to find the solution. Of course we don't want to be a prisoner and we all have stood up and taken panic throughout our lives.
I've had this since I was 6 years old. It has gone and come back several times in my life. Now 22 years later it's back very badly.
I don't really find your comments helpful and I find them almost patronising and it's something that I feel someone who doesn't suffer from anxiety would say to someone who is. I'm sure you didn't mean it like that though.
On a different subject, yes it would be nice to have a therapist with me during exposure but I had had several and never clicked with any of them and none of them ever came out on exposure with me. They would send me away each week and just tell me to fill out a diary. Useless.
Although Robin isn't with me, I feel I can go over the videos and books again and again and again and even take and print off some pages of the ebook to take out with me. Plus he is very contactable so as well as all his great information, you have a therapist there too!
star2sparkle
26-02-13, 17:39
All I can add is make sure you have as much support as you can possibly get. Don't give up. I wouldn't expect a therapist to accompany you on an exposure programme but I do think you need to have one that you see and not just to do it all alone. You may find that a combination of therapies may help or CBT may be all you need :)
---------- Post added at 17:39 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------
Steveo, I do wonder though, has Robin got round to asking you if you'd like to play the piano yet? :D
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