Thread Titles

[venusbluejeans]

Please could Members have a think about the type of titles they are using for threads.

This is for your sake as your choice of title may make a difference to if someone answers your thread or not.

When people look through the 'Active Topic' list they tend to look at the title and make a decision there and then if they have the experience to answer the thread before they even click to read your thread.

It therefore helps if your title lets the reader know about your thread.

There have been quite a few threads recently with titles such as "please Help me" "read this" or just "I need Help"...... These titles although 'dramatic' may tend to get ignored even though the poster needs help.

Titles saying more about your problem are more likely to get you a reply..... such as "panicking about my headache" or "worried about my Heart tests tomorrow" may get more replies as people with experience who can give advice or help will know what the thread is about

Many Thanks

[AuntieMoosie]

I couldn't agree more Venus :)

I always scan the "posts since last visit" and will look out for the one's that I think I may be able to help with.

I tend to bypass the one's saying "read this" "look here" "needs help" as I really don't know what the subject is going to be, I will sometimes look if I've got the time, but if time is limited then I will go for the one's that have an appropriate subject line.

You may write "help me" but you have to remember that nobody will be able to see exactly what help you need :)

If you write something like "Agoraphobic had bad panic attack" then that would instantly get my attention because my brain will pick up both "agoraphobic" and "panic attack" :)

Sorry if this comes over as a "lecture"....it isn't :) it's just that it would make the board easier to read and easier for others to target their help and advice to appropriate threads :)

[PanchoGoz]

I agree with this...I tend to bypass the ones as well that are made to stand out with capitals or loads of punctuation like "AM I DYING" or "Does anyone else have these symptoms????!!!!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?"

[nomorepanic]

We don't have unwanted advertising on here though Bill. As you know I don't support those miracle cure sites.

[nomorepanic]

Hi Bill

As you know from our previous conversations about this it is not about financial gain at all.

I am not bothered either way about the money.

The programme I do believe in and I know that a lot of members have done extremely well following it and it is not a miracle cure - it is hard work and based on CBT.

I doubt you will find many panic/anxiety websites as big as NMP that do not have some form of advertising on it - usually Google Ad's. I have kept NMP free of that. Even now the advertising is done in one post and a handful of members felt strongly enough about it to add it to their signatures.

You know which organisations my comments were aimed at in the above rules.

I have no intention of banning you and never have done - why would I? You have done nothing more than express an opinion and I know you have strong feelings about that opinion and that is perfectly acceptable to voice on here.

You always have been and still are a dear person to me Bill :hugs:

[nomorepanic]

Bill

I am still not going to remove you and I am still going to let you have your opinions on this - you are entitled to say exactly what you want and how you feel. I have no problem with that at all.

I do get emails most weeks asking for advertising space but I decline as I do not want NMP covered in adverts.

Maybe it would help if Robin replied to some of your concerns - not sure if that would or not but I will show him this post anyway seeing as it is his programme that I support.

Don't leave ok Bill?

[Pipkin]

Bill,

I also don't like advertising but, at the same time, I discovered CBT4Panic through this site and it has been marvellous. There's no pressure, plenty of resources to read through and Robin is nothing but supportive. I'm not just agreeing with Nic, I'd say if I thought it was a problem but it's quite the opposite - I see it as another form of support available here and I think it would be remiss not to make people aware of such a good programme to balance all of the posts about different medications. Remember, they're products too and they get a lot of coverage here through members' posts.

As Nic said, you might feel reassured by a chat with Robin.

Pip

[AuntieMoosie]

Hi there Bill :)

I don't quite understand why you feel the need to leave?? As Nic has said, we're all entitled to our opinion and all you've done is to voice yours which is perfectly acceptable :)

You're worried about upsetting Nic, you're obviously friends which I think is lovely, but Bill, you're probably upsetting Nic more by saying you want to leave, than you are by voicing your opinion :)

You've nothing to feel bad for, you have written your posts very politely and with the utmost respect and you seem a very decent and pleasant Man to me :)

Bill, in life, no matter what, we're not all going to agree with each other all the time, but we can accept each others opinion and just agree to disagree, it's really not worth breaking friendships and leaving forums over it :)

I know the programme to which you refer Bill. It's an excellent programme, it's really good value for money and Robin even has an easy payment scheme in place so that people can spread the little cost out :)

Bill I have already seen an NHS CBT therapist a few years ago, but doing that didn't help me as it doesn't for some, but this programme is helping me :) Now I would never have known about it if Nic hadn't have had it on this site, so I would have lost out on an opportunity to recover and get better :)

There is nothing wrong with NMP being able to gain some revenue from this, it's not a scam in any way, shape or form and it all helps Nic with the burden of the costs of this site, which we all gain so much from :)

It's not as if Nic or Robin are pushing it down peoples throats, it's just there for if you would like to try it. Bill hun, it's really no different to seeing any other adverts is it? We all look at products and decide whether we wish to purchase them, but it is all on a voluntary level :)

I can feel that you really have a lot of empathy for the poor and I think that's wonderful :) I do too, as I'm sure that Nic also does :) But you have to look at it from both sides of the fence, there are people who don't want to wait for months or even years for CBT under the NHS, there are people who are desperate to get their lives back on track and be able to go back to work again, this would get them out of the poverty trap which has to be a good thing surely?

I'm on a pretty tight budget too, as so many people are now, but I just thought that it would be such a good investment, I mean, what could be better than getting your life and freedom back? That, to me, is priceless :)

Bill please don't feel the need to leave, you will hurt Nic by doing that and I know that you wouldn't want that :)
It's okay for you to have your opinion :) we all respect that, but let's just agree to disagree :) :hugs: :bighug1:

[Serenitie]

Oh Bill,

I hope that you don't leave. Your posts are invaluable to so many. Me included.

You have every right to express your opinions as we all do. If they conflict with others, including Nic, so be it. This is your right to think and express yourself freely as an individual.

I have every respect for the work that Nic and the other moderators have undertaken and executed successfully. However, I do not always agree with Nic and have felt shut down by her on a few occasions ~ I have fed back to Nic on this so do not feel I am raising new issues via a thread or speaking out of turn.

I have also noticed the 'shutting down' of other opinions by other moderators who jump in to agree with Nic to silence other viewpoints on several threads. This is unprofessional at best and can be intimidating on a forum where there is no place for this behaviour.

Nic removed a very valid post of mine relating to an extremely sexually inappropriate message I received from a member. Nic did this as this would provide fuel for those who were currently opposing how NMP was being moderated at that time. This was, in my opinion as a mental health professional, totally irresponsible, it did not serve Nicola well as I received numerous messages concerning how badly this issue was managed and caused me incredible personal distress leading to self harm as a rape survivor who was triggered by this message at a very low ebb.

As an Approved Mental Health Social worker, I worked at the 'heavy end' of mental health and constantly challenged the mistreatment of individuals suffering mental distress. Including challenging a psychiatrist and GP for clock watching during appointments and failing to make eye contact with their patients. These so called paid professionals were reported by me and second opinions were sought by my clients as respect is a two way process. Why respect a 'professional' who acts so unprofessionally!?

There are many seeking to make money from those looking to find a 'cure'. The truth is, there is no cure. As an expert in my field with a distinction in Social Work and quality award for service in my field I can assure you all of this without charging any fee.

Yes CBT can help. But as we are all individuals with individual experiences, no therapy is a one size fits all! The breakdown of family and community alongside the ever increasing fast pace of life is the number one factor in the increase of mental distress. With this as a foundation and add a few negative life experiences to the mix = mental health problems galore.

A sense of community was once our salvation. Here we have the perfect opportunity to thrive through the sharing of advice, resources and mutual experiences as extended families once did.

I agree with you Bill. If you advocate one resource, be open to advocating all. Who is anyone to judge what is the 'best' or an 'effective' method?

I for one entered the trial of CBT4Panic as a result of a recommendation from NMP and I was sorely disappointed.

I cannot criticise the methodology whatsoever. As a mental health practitioner trained in CBT, task focused therapy, person centred therapy and crisis management, Robin's product is sound and well presented.

However, at the time of embarking in this programme, I was totally without income and in crisis resulting from numerous issues in my life. I was not able to pay. Upon cancelling, I expressed my thanks for a quality product, but at this time, I could not continue as a paid member. Robin's response was patronising and said it was a shame for me to walk away from the one to one support for such value for money. I responded to Robin by saying when you have no money for food or mortgage, paying for CBT is not an option. He responded by conceding that financial matters and generating an income were a priority for him currently.

This told me that as skilled as this man is in CBT, which I do not deny, his people skills were displaced by his need to make money from CBT4Panic. Which is the point that Bill has made eloquently. I, for one, concur.

I am a qualified social worker, skilled in many fields, willing to offer my expertise for free on NMP even though I'm struggling financially. Look through my threads. I seek support infrequently but provide support as often as I am able.

I post on here to help others out of goodwill and the hope that I can help others with the benefit of my knowledge, skills, personal & professional experience.

Be wary of those charging for their support. Some - not all - will be reluctant to hurry your progress or discharge you from their care as this causes a drop in their income. I speak as a professional who has heard this directly from other colleagues and so called 'professionals' who I have recoiled from in disgust.

Stay with us, Bill. As I have said before, you are a gentleman and a scholar. With more people like you, this world would be a much better place :yesyes:

---------- Post added at 04:23 ---------- Previous post was at 02:21 ----------

I can feel that you really have a lot of empathy for the poor and I think that's wonderful :) I do too, as I'm sure that Nic also does :)

I wish Robin did given my circumstances :lac:

[Serenitie]

[QUOTE=Bill;1123332]You're Very Sweet Cat.:hugs: I'm So sorry to hear you've been unwell. I'll always be around if you feel I can help in any way.:hugs:


I know Bill and sincerely appreciate your care. But to talk of my hurt right now would cause a unravelling that would burn my core. I'm just not ready or able but appreciate your concern as always. :hugs:

[Bill]

Then for now sweet Cat I shall just send you these :hugs::hugs::hugs:with a wish that you will soon be well. Keep safe.:hugs:xxx

[Serenitie]

Then for now sweet Cat I shall just send you these :hugs::hugs::hugs:with a wish that you will soon be well. Keep safe.:hugs:xxx

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::h ugs:

right back. Speak soon, Bill. Cat :hugs:

[Rain]

We are all in the same boat here- suffering from anxiety and hoping desperately to be well again. If there is a product available that can help, I say let’s all be given the opportunity to give it a chance. I personally have had psychotherapy, Cognitive behavioural therapy, hypnotherapy; and yes, I have tried CBT4Panic. My hypnotherapy cost me €600 for the course. CBT4Panic cost me a fraction of that. I have no income at all and my partner and I are on a very tight budget. But it was worth paying out the price of a night out (It’s about 12 years since I’ve had one of those!) to see if it could help me. I am not cured but I see it as another tool in my toolbox on the path to recovery.

I feel a huge amount of criticism has been levelled at someone who has produced something with the intention of helping people at a relatively low cost. Booklets and DVDs cost money to produce and post. People have to make a living. Why should everything be free for it to be a genuine product?

We are intelligent people who can make up our minds whether we feel something is worth a try. Nic has been running this site for many years and has seen many products come and go. Some were very expensive. I trusted her judgement that CBT4Panic was worth a try was worth a go and I’m glad it was made known to me through this site. Many here have tried it and found it helpful. It’s good that we have a forum where we can discuss how we got on with it.

If you don’t like the idea of paying for a product to help with anxiety that’s fine. But those of us who were prepared to give it a go have a right to our views too. I believe if we keep saying ‘no’ to everything we will get nowhere. Some points have been made very forcefully here. I think Nic has answered those criticisms in full. I think it’s time to let Nic get on with running the site as she sees fit. She has had a lot of experience.

[ricardo]

Well said Rain

I don't want to go against the flow as I have debated with Bill myself recently,but to an outsider IMO a lot of these posts or at least a major content of them, should be private between the parties concerned .

[Rain]

If you go on a dog forum, you will be given all sorts of advice on how to look after your dog. Forums are great for this and it can be very helpful. However- it is not PROFESSIONAL advice. You are able to make a judgement on when you need to actually go to the veterinary surgery and get professional help. Of course you pay for this help. The vet has gone to veterinary college for many years. He is a professional vet and we don’t think twice about paying him.

In a similar manner, we can all give each other lots of tips here, but some of us will choose to have professional help, often in the form of an online course created by someone qualified. Likewise, we should expect to pay for this. We do not live in a communist state yet, nor are we babies who need to be protected from solutions available. We can all do our own research and make a judgement. There is nothing wrong in paying for solutions if you choose to.

[robinhall]

Hi Everyone

Just thought I would bring this argument to and end and let Nic get on with running the forum

I will attach the PM that I sent to Bill which hopefully can explain everything (it contains nothing personal about Bill so I'm sure he won't mind).

Maybe it's good that all this has come up since it will force me to get the new website out a bit quicker than I intended. But really I will just be glad that people will give Nicola a break.

I could still use financial help (as could Nic) developing the new programmes so if anyone would still like to pay for CBT4PANIC via the original website - before it is taken down that would be much appreciated.

If anyone else feels annoyed that they recently purchased the programme and it will soon be free - I dont mind if you ask for a refund.

With regards sending people PMs about the programme maybe those of you who have received the download link free of charge over the last while might be able to put Bills mind at ease.

I have been discussing this with Nic for some time now and we will make a proper announcement soon.

If any of you would like to help us promote the programme online worldwide we would love to have you on board.

Thank you to those who have supported the programme thus far and apologies to anyone who feels upset or offended by CBT4PANIC or myself.

Robin

=================



Hi Bill

Nic just showed me your posts

I am just heading out but thought I would reply quickly

It may help you to know that very soon I intend to offer CBT4PANIC free anyway - I realised that making it a paid programme was putting too many people off trying it and besides that I want to try to get it out around the world. My wife is Indian and we want to give it out in India

I have been out a LOT of money because of CBT4PANIC - I earn around £60 per week maximum - and I might spend several hours a day - sometimes late into the night emailing people with professional advice - where any other therapist will be charging up to £70 per hour

It cost me about £30,000 to become a therapist and it took around 2 years full time work creating CBT4PANIC

I think people think I am some highly paid psychiatrist living in a mansion. I have to rent a house - cant get a mortgage due to bad credit - my wife and daughter and I have to share with my 86 yr old mother and my brother - I own a 12 year old Clio and can barely afford to put petrol in it. I really struggle to make ends meet.

I would love to be able to create similar programmes for other disorders such as Health anxiety and depression - unfortunately I have bills to pay so I may not be able to do that. My hope was that people would be happy to pay for my hard work and that in turn would mean I could help many more - unfortunately because of [the many online 'miracle cure' products] people are SO antagonistic against paying for ANY online treatment programme I am just fighting a losing battle.

Anyway - as I said, I will be giving the programme free and will be devoting my time to helping as many millions of people areound the world as I can. Hopefully that will put your mind at ease. Any sales I make until that happens will help me to at least create the new website where the programme will be accessed (it will be called care4mind.com)

I had seen some of your posts and could tell you were also sincere in trying to help people and was actually going to ask if you would like to help promote the programme when it becomes free - getting it out around the world with no money for advertising isn't going to be easy.

I was also going to suggest that you had a look through the programme which may add to your own understanding of CBT and how it can be of help.

In the last few days I have emailed many people on the forum with the direct link to access the programme free of charge

Things aren't always how they seem :-)

anyway - feel free to look at the programme - let me know how you get on

http://ct-online-info.com/

Robin

[AuntieMoosie]

Hi there Robin :)

I just wanted to say that I think what you're doing and planning now is so very kind of you :)

I did pay for CBT4PANIC and I, for one, would not dream of asking you for a refund. When developing programmes like this, there are costs involved and, once again, I like to contribute to help cover those costs especially if I'm getting lots out of something which with CBT4PANIC I am :)

I can understand what you're wanting to do now Robin and I think it's so very generous of you :) But I must say that I am feeling a little peeved and a touch angry, to be honest, at this whole, sad subject. I really, honestly, can see nothing wrong in what either you or Nic were doing, it has always been down to individual choice and, in my opinion, it's up to us to decide what we want to do :)

I do fully respect everyone's opinion as I've said before :) But I am going to say that I do feel hurt towards the way this has unfolded :weep: As I see it, both our dear Nic and Robin have been run through the mill on this and for no good reason as I see it :weep: All that they have both tried to do is to help people, anyone who wanted to try CBT4PANIC were more than welcome, you were never obliged to pay for it if it wasn't for you and I just can't think of anything fairer than that. I take offence and I'm deeply hurt by the accusations that either darling Nic or Robin have been making money from others suffering :weep:

Robin I wish you every success in what your going to be doing now :) I would love to be on board for anything that might be helpful to you, I will promote your new programme every which way I can, as I know just how helpful it has been for me :)

I feel I must end here as I am feeling very upset. I'm so sorry Nic and Robin for what has unfolded here.............sorry but I really fail to understand any of it, all I know is that 2 beautiful, kind and caring people have probably been deeply hurt and, for that, I'm truly sorry :weep: :weep:

---------- Post added at 14:09 ---------- Previous post was at 14:05 ----------

Rain I want to say thank you for your opinion :) I fully agree with everything you've said :)

[robinhall]

Hi Auntie Moose

Thank you for all the kind words - but don't worry, I dont believe anyone intended any 'hurt' and since this is the direction I was headed with this there is no harm done in the end. And thank you so much for your offer of help - once the new website is up and running I will explain more about HOW people can help.

I understand that people can feel strongly when it comes to these things. The internet IS littered with 'health products' whose main goal is financial gain so I can see why some people would want to avoid ANYTHING remotely related to that on the forum.

I think everyone on this forum genuinely wants to help other people. We all do this is our own way.

Can I also add that it's not that I think people weren't 'prepared' to pay for help - I think the problem was more that many people were WARY of the programme because they maybe thought it was just another 'miracle cure product' regardless of any assurances I could give or even a money back guarantee.

Because of THAT I realised that too many people were missing out on getting help and apart from that there are too many countries where people simply can't afford ANY payment so I decided to make it free. Hopefully I can cover expenses through donations - or if anyone else has any good ideas please let me know.

I hope that people dont fall out because of all this - we all share a great deal in common so lets all stick together. :)


Robin

[bernie1977]

I think people are getting Robin confused with Charles Linden!! Cough, cough sorry but couldn't resist that dig.

I think it's great what you aim to do Robin and very generous. As we know certain individuals have made millions from online methods and retreats and you are now going share your programme for free - that speaks volumes.

[nomorepanic]

Two members who have posted on here have upset me with certain comments and I do not wish to get into an arguement over it.

Thank you to those members that have defended my corner!

I will continue to support Robin and I am sorry but if that offends anyone but I cannot do anything about that and I am not going to stop supporting him.

I already had a discussion with Bill via PM about Robin's intentions with his programme and he (Robin) has now announced it here as well.

Yes I will lose out financially but Robin has far more to lose than me. When I first agreed to help Robin I told him I did not want anything in return. It was Robin that insisted I took a small percentage of each sale made through NMP. Members had the choice to use that link or use one that did NOT give me any income. We did not force members to only use the one link that would be for my gain.

If anyone just googled CBT4PANIC and bought it that way then NMP gained nothing financially.

Considering I get no financial help from the government in terms of benefits I think I am entitled to accept a small amout of money to help fund NMP which I pay for out of my savings!

If you think I get hundreds of pounds then I don't. I get between £60 and £70 a MONTH so about £15 - £17.50 a WEEK

I do not feel there is any point in me saying anything more on the matter now.

[Kells81]

Good luck Robin in all you plan to do with your new website. I think cbt4panic is a great support tool, especially for those like myself who had to wait 9 months for CBT through the nhs.
I think it it great and very selfless that you plan to now offer it for free and I really hope you manage to help countless people.

I would also like to add that I personally was pleased that nic promoted cbt4panic as a great method to help overcome panic disorder. I think it is helpful to get some kind of direction to a product that is decent.

[Bill]

I just wanted to say I apologise to anyone I've upset or offended over this subject because I actually agree with just about everything people have said since yesterday. The reason being that they're not about the actual issue I was trying to raise.

However, it wasn't my intention to cause conflict or upset people, especially Nic, because I honestly do feel she's a wonderful person and that she should receive funding for everything she does on here.

I don't want to upset anyone any further so I've decided not to post on the forum anymore. I promise.

I sincerely apologise to those I have offended.

I should never have said anything in the first place. I think I have done enough harm.

Please always take very good care of yourselves, and that means Everyone on the forum, and I sincerely hope you all find what you are looking for. It's obvious I have outstayed my welcome so it's time I moved on but I do also have some very upsetting personal matters that need my full attention.

There is no other phrase I can bow out with but to say I'm VERY sorry for upsetting and offending you.:hugs:

[little wren]

With regards sending people PMs about the programme maybe those of you who have received the download link free of charge over the last while might be able to put Bills mind at ease.

Robin

Hi - I received the download link free of charge a few days ago in response to a pm I sent Robin. There was no pushing the product etc. If I don't like what I see then I will not use it. If I think I could benefit then I will use it. I am still having a look at it.

[LittleSongbird]

I'm not good at English but I have to say that for Robin

Well. I'm in VIETNAM and you know what, in my country therapies or CBT is not well-known and if it does it COSTS me a fortune. Robin knew that and sent the program for free, even when I felt so shame for not paying him and ASKED him I would pay for his program but he said "NO"

And he said he would soon give this program free.

He also sent me his 64 booklet and DVD to my house - in Vietnam - free

I kept his messages. He supported me a lot

Although his methods do not suit everybody, but he was very very supportive and his program is much more valuable than trashes or scams out there - for example clamclinc. I don't know but when a person works hard for something even if he does not ask for money but we should pay that.

Working to launch that program is not easy, it requires a lot of patient, a lot of skills, and kindness, sympathy...

If somebody does not believe me I can send them ID and passwords to check out my messages between me and Robin

[Pinktel]

Another vote of thanks from me to Robin Hall and the No more Panic team.

You should all give yourselves an enormous pat on the back and feel incredibly proud of your collective bodies of work and advice.

This is the most informative and helpful anxiety website I have ever found. It is a lifeline to thousands I haven't doubt.

Through this website I discovered a CBT programme (CBT4PaNIC) which genuinely works because it is brilliantly researched, eloquently explained and thoroughly comprehensive.

I am reaching a level of understanding now that is finally eroding my 20 years of anxiety. Without NMP and CBT4PANIC that would not be so. I have tried most other remedies in existence.

Allowing people free access to the programme is the most worthy action of all. I am informing my GP to check the programme out as she is so pleased with the progress I am making. It should be in every surgery across the globe because it works.

Robin and Nic, we salute you :yesyes:

[Annie0904]

Pinktel you have said more or less what I would want to say :) Both NMP and CBT4Panic have and are playing such a big part in my recovery and I am so grateful for both of them. Thank you Nic and Robin for all your support and especially the amount of time that I know you both put in to help others.

[Pipkin]

Bill,

I'm going to have one last say and then I'm keeping quiet but I can't do that until I've pointed out a couple of things:

1) I understand your point of view and, of course, you're perfectly entitled to hold that view. I'm also a firm believer in equality and equal access to health care. What I do know is that Robin would never have refused help to anyone because they couldn't afford his services, however minimal the costs were. That's quite clear from other members' posts. Nic knows that so your earlier scenario about referrals and someone committing suicide could never have happened. No-one would ever have been excluded.

2) I don't know you so your intention to leave doesn't really affect me. However, there are clearly many people on here who hold you very dear and care about you a lot, and I can see that you've helped many people during your time here. You have every right to leave but, if I were you, I'd stop for one last time and ask why I'm really leaving. It seems to me that you wanted the decision to be taken away from you as you kept suggesting that Nic should remove you. This makes me wonder if you've just decided the time's right to leave regardless of this situation. If your time to leave has come, that's fair enough. If you're leaving due to your principles, as you say, there's now nothing for you to object to as the CBT 4 Panic programme is free and, as I pointed out, it always was for people who couldn't afford it.

I wish you all the best whatever your decision and it's a shame we didn't get to know each other. I think we would have got on well.

Take care

Pip

[ricardo]

Dear Bill

I had replied to you but unfortunately as you have read,Nic combined your two threads together and a few replies went missing.
You are obviously well respected by many on NMP but I am afraid that even allowing for your strong principles I go against the flow as I wear my heart on my sleeve.
As you say you as I are only members and it is Nic's site and quite frankly if you had concerns you should IMO have kept this private.
You have asked to be banned twice in the last few days and then said you were leaving and as you have stated you are breaking your own promise.

One can only get one's point over so many times otherwise one loses credibility and to be quite frank all this is doing is adding more stress to Nic and her team, though I am sure she must have already explained her feelings to you in private.
I really don't understand why you keep posting on the same theme.Please don't take offence as it is just as I see it.

[Daisy Sue]

[B][COLOR=#000080]I have tried to explain why but it feels like either people can't understand or to them its unimportant but to me, these issues are because I came here to help on the basis that it is a support group provided purely for anxiety sufferers to support each other but packed with help and advice made available by outside sources.

I'm relatively new here but I've spent a lot of time on the forum since joining... looking for reassurance, advice, help, friendship.. all the things a member might want from this forum, and I've found it all, with absolutely no thought of there being any profit making.

Yes I have seen the link to the treatment you refer to, I read it and was grateful that such a thing is available and easily accessible, should I ever decide to go that route, but certainly I felt no pressure, nor do I feel it detracts from the essence of this forum.



I just feel under the current arrangement I can't fit in because there are issues, as someone who came here to help, that at present go against my personal principles but rather than cause upset to Nic I would much rather leave so she can get on. You see, it's not just about me, rightly or wrongly I've raised them because of my concerns for others who might be more vulnerable.

Depending on the level of vulnerability, anyone can be taken in by thousands of quick fix treatments offered on the internet.. you can't protect everyone. I think Nicola's decision to have this particular one linked to here is good, because it is not some hocus pocus cure claim, it's not some wacko pretending to be a doctor - this is a proper recovery program with personal support, and I feel it has an important place in the whole anxiety help field. Like me, people who see it, click on it, read it, will decide whether they want to pursue it or not...

Bill forgive me if I'm being a little presumptuous, but I feel that maybe you think you've said too much, and that's why you're talking about being banned or leaving.. but it's ok, we all unload a bit too much sometimes - & it's no reason to stay away permanently.

[Rain]

I feel it’s important here to look at exactly what has been said and how it has been said:


Quote from Bill on the ‘Panic attack poll’ thread:
18th February:
‘I find it very sad to think that there are those in this world who wouldn't think twice about seeking financial opportunities to prey on their fellow kind knowing how vulnerable and desperate they are, under the guise of wishing to help, when their main objective through their charm is to gain profit for themselves, from others suffering using the knowledge that has been freely given to them.’

Quote from Bill on the ‘Panic Attack poll’ thread:
19th February:
‘it seems everywhere you look, even on nmp these days, there is some form of advertising or affiliation links that are tempting vulnerable people who feel desperate for a cure when there is no need for anyone to pay out for the support they need in this country.’

Quote from Bill on the ‘Panic Attack poll’ thread:
19th February:
‘I feel the most vulnerable deserve better protection from these wolves in sheeps clothing’

Quote from Bill on this thread:
23rd February
‘Perhaps Nic, after you've had a good long look in the mirror at your beautiful conscience, you'll be able to answer all the many questions that I keep uncovering the deeper I delve’


Can you see how this looks like a passive aggressive campaign to accuse people of unpleasant intents? Some of this wording is very strong and I for one found it most upsetting, no matter if you are calling people ‘beautiful’ and ‘sweet’ in the same breath. I love No More Panic. It has helped me so much over the years. I don’t like to see it and those who are working with it attacked. I think you’ve said enough on the topic now Bill. I really do.

[Pinktel]

Rain thankyou, you just saved me a lot of typing :D

I was intending to pick those exact points after I returned from dog walking this morning.

The (at times simpering) comments I have been reading put me in mind of some Pythonesque comedy, but the trump card was the story about a vulnerable person committing suicide because they had spent their last brass razoo on a CBT programme, hocked to them on their doorstep, which failed to work for them, whilst the agent who sold it to them sailed on merrily with their lives growing rich from the profits of vulnerable people.

As to where these fundamental laws are upon which this site was founded, I have yet to find them....

Bill, if NMP did NOT endorse CBT4PANIC I would still be sitting in my house crying a lot feeling like death.

nobody is making a profit out of vulnerable people here, looks to me like Robin has done his best to get the information to those that couldn't afford it for free anyway so your argument is without grounds in my opinion.

[Kells81]

I feel for me it's different though because I came here primarily to try and help people and not to seek help.

I think this quote speaks volumes-you are not here to seek help Bill so I really hope your comments don't prevent others seeking help due to now avoiding cbt4panic because of your comments.

Would it make out feel happier if Nic also endorsed products that are over priced and useless? Sure this would mean all advertisers had the same rights but that certainly wouldn't help sufferers on the forum and that is the main priority.

It is great you come on this forum to help people but you need to allow others such as Robin to help as well.

[mikewales]

The fact is NMP doesn't endorse just anyone, we spend a lot of time removing people who spam adverts, and removing links from peoples profiles.

If a program has been endorsed on here, you can be damn sure Nic has checked it out thoroughly first. Robins course was initially offered free, and it was because so many people were benefiting from it, and giving good feedback that it was decided to support it, nothing to do with any ( minimal ) financial incentives.

If money was the object, the site would be covered in random adverts like most sites are, this is something Nic has deliberately avoided, or would charge people to join as some of the other anxiety sites do.

Bill, I'm not sure why this causes you some personal conflict, but as it is a free world obviously if you are not comfortable with it then you can choose to leave.

[AuntieMoosie]

Bill please, I really think it's time for all this to stop now.

People are trying to be really patient and kind to you. But we have all heard, loud enough now, what you're issues are and they have been answered and explained more than once to you.

Why do you feel the need to keep re-opening this issue Bill? Is it that you think if you do that, then Nic will, in end, ban you? are you trying to push her into a situation where she would have no choice but to do that? what you get out of that Bill? and would you really and honestly think that's the right way to treat someone whom you say is a friend?

I've already written a long reply to your leaving thread and I explained that you had no reason to leave NMP, we all want you to stay. Other's have also replied to you saying the same thing, yet you still seem intent on keeping this saga going, but for what reason, only you must know, because I'm at a complete loss.

Anyway, getting back to the start of my post.

It's time to put this to bed now Bill.

It would be truly sad if you were to leave NMP, but I am going to say this now, If that is what you really want to do then now is the time to do that of your own accord, it is, in my opinion, completely unfair to Nic for you to keep asking her to ban you, the door is open for if you want to stay, or if you want to leave, but please have the courage of your convictions and leave freely on your own decision.

Please just let this be THE END

[Bill]

If that is what you really want to do then now is the time to do that of your own accord, it is, in my opinion, completely unfair to Nic for you to keep asking her to ban you, the door is open for if you want to stay, or if you want to leave, but please have the courage of your convictions and leave freely on your own decision.

Please just let this be THE END ...it is...and that is Absolute Promise because I have done far too much harm and I have some very upsetting personal matters that need my full attention anyway.

Please take good care of yourselves and I am Truly sorry for offending you. I hope I have gone some way to make amends by deleting Every offending post that I can find. When I couldn't find the thread, I thought it had been deleted anyway. I would have agreed with it in any case.

My Sincere apologies to Nic and everyone else I have offended because as Nic knows I Very Much care about her and about everyone who feels the same way about her on here, and for that reason I am Truly Sorry for the conflict my concern has caused.

As you say and I agree....THE END....TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY. I just want to leave Nic, yourselves and everyone else to get on with things without ANY further trouble from me, and you can hold me to that, so once again please accept my SINCERE apologies and allow me to wish you every happiness in your personal lives and on NMP.:hugs:

[blue moon]

Would like to say,there are plenty wolves in sheep clothing,I work and walk amongst them everday.Good on you Bill, remember you have folk on here who care about you and reading your wonderful posts,do not leave over all that has been said,you keep posting your feelings and views.

Petra x:D

[nomorepanic]

Bill

You haven't offended me at all I promise.

You take care of you ok xxx

[Bill]

This is something I've written for Nic that I'm hoping will give her back a smile so I hope you won't mind me coming back momentarily to post it for her.:hugs:

One Word

One word is often easy to say,
And can be said in many ways,
But gratitude felt every day,
Can never easily be conveyed,
With words that are too inadequate to repay,

The soft texture of a smooth satin petal,
Cannot be described in words alone,
But only in feelings which flow from the heart,
Where loving thoughts are first sown,

If a word could describe the tender beauty of thee,
A new word would have to be created in the vocabulary,
For no such word as yet exists in any published dictionary,
That can sufficiently express how highly I will always think of she.:hugs:

[blue moon]

Lovely....:hugs: