View Full Version : Why you should exercise vs medication
http://jamesclear.quora.com/Natural-Happiness-The-Truth-About-Exercise-and-Depression?ref=fb
If you don't want to read the whole thing (it's not long) here is the take home message;
Exercise alone is better in the long-term than medication alone or exercise & medication.
Very true. I'm a big advocate of this. However, this thread is about people suffering from depression caused by their anxiety.
Not just depressed people. Most people on here are moderately to badly depressed because their anxiety is impacting on their lives. Like myself. I would do anything to go outside for a jog, but my anxiety stops me from leaving the front door some days, and this in turn makes me depressed. Remove the anxiety and you remove the depression here.
But yes I am a big advocate of this treatment being used before medication in cases of mild depression.
Animalhugger
10-04-13, 12:54
When I suffered from cepression and Panic Disorder. Regular excercise combined with medication was very successfull in getting me back on form :) Unfortunately it hasn't had the same effect this time round with Depression and GAD, i still keep it up because there are benefits, just started Yoga and meditation too. I'm going through a bad spell and my motivation is zero but i force myself to get up and do it as it's more positive than doing nothing. I have a Spin class after seeing my therapist tonight, have already packed my bag so i'ts less easy to talk myself out of it. :winks: I also have a couple of excercise routines I have made for myself to do at home. If Im really bad I try and do that instead.
Hi steveo.
Yeah I get your point and was aware that the population sample reflected depression only. I guess it's a leap of faith on my part that it applies to anxiety and anxiety caused depression too. Anxiety and depression involve very similar brain networks (eg cortisol and serotonin and dopamine) and I would place a very large bet that the exact same results would be found in a population of solely anxious patients. In fact i believe there are many studies reporting the anti-anxiety benefits of exercise. Tho I liked this article because it directly compared the effects on depression against medication and post-intervention effects, which are extremely important.
I get what you're saying too about the practicalities of exercise in the house. Currently im exhausted 24/7 and can barely climb the stairs without effort. However that shouldn't stop me from building up exercise from mildly to moderately. there are plenty of things one can do in the home to exercise (it's just a lot harder to motivate yourself at home! :D).
In your case have you considered that exercise at home might reduce your anxiety which may help in the process of getting outside again? Just a thought.
Sorry if i come across as a Mr-know-it-all! ha! Not my intention :)
My opinion on the GAD and depression is that I could manage my GAD before I developed depression. If I were to exercise, the depression would go but the GAD may still build up and drag me back into it. However, any benefit is a boon for us sufferers, and if that helps depression, do it, and also aid the anxiety with other methods. Then they can decrease incrementally.
Very interesting article. I wonder if taking medication would add to my depress list. There is quite a stigma and feeling of failing attached to it for me. There is something very satisfying about succeeding "by hand".
Thanks for posting, should spawn an interesting discussion!
My opinion on the GAD and depression is that I could manage my GAD before I developed depression. If I were to exercise, the depression would go but the GAD may still build up and drag me back into it. However, any benefit is a boon for us sufferers, and if that helps depression, do it, and also aid the anxiety with other methods. Then they can decrease incrementally.
Very interesting article. I wonder if taking medication would add to my depress list. There is quite a stigma and feeling of failing attached to it for me. There is something very satisfying about succeeding "by hand".
Thanks for posting, should spawn an interesting discussion!
You raise a really interesting point that I think we can all agree on. We are self-referential beings. we view the world from a point of "me" and everything gets filtered through these tinted lenses. being on medication feeds into those deep beliefs like "If I am on medication then there is something physically wrong with me", "I'm not strong enough" etc. Feeling better without medication has a load of self-satisfying attachments to it!
The problem with excercise is something that you never hear about in articles:
Exercising can make people feel tired and burned out, which mimicks depression and can in some people trigger bad anxiety as they think they're having a depressive blip.
I have also struggled with this. The best I can say is to remind yourself that if you do feel burned out and exhausted after exercising, and this makes you feel depressed, remember that you are experiencing something that is totally normal but you are seeing it through the filter of fear.
It is actually a good time to practice reassurance and self-affirmation, not out of fear or to blot depression out, but to fill yourself with pride that you've done something good - something that matters - and to know that no matter how rough you might feel in that moment, it just seems bad because you expect it to be a sign of illness. If you have managed to do some exercise, this is an incredibly positive step, just bear in mind that physical health, like mental health, is something that requires you to push yourself and learn to cope with being well outside your comfort zone.
footballking
10-04-13, 17:42
It's bullshit, believe what you want. It's got nothing to do with exercise, it's got more to do with removing the anxiety in the first place, if your anxiety is for example heart problems. The second thing is, willpower.
Believe what you want, but exercise does not equal less depression. It's like people read an article and suddenly it all makes sense. It's complete bullshit.
Provide me with all those researchers and specialists on anxiety and depression for 4 weeks and see if I can't beat it. (That is what they had, when the case study was conducted.)
It's bullshit, believe what you want. It's got nothing to do with exercise, it's got more to do with removing the anxiety in the first place, if your anxiety is for example heart problems. The second thing is, willpower.
Believe what you want, but exercise does not equal less depression. It's like people read an article and suddenly it all makes sense. It's complete bullshit.
Provide me with all those researchers and specialists on anxiety and depression for 4 weeks and see if I can't beat it. (That is what they had, when the case study was conducted.)
Not so. Exercise really does help depression as it releases endorphins. That extra happiness they does banish the depression for a while. My problems have nothing to do with exercise/heart rate. I have to do some form of rigorous exercise a day to keep it at bay. If it didn't work, people would not have recovered to those stats. The article is from an acedemic journal, I checked. Please don't say it's rubbish just because it didn't work for you, if you have even tried it.
As Pancho says, exercise is well known for releasing feelgood chemicals, but someone with severe depression is not just going to perk up immediately. Excercise, when done right, is difficult and challenging. It will even make a fit and healthy person feel tired out.
The difference is perspective. Are you going to see it as useless if it doesn't give instant results, or temporarily makes you feel worse, rather than see it through until the benefits come? Depression is as much of a problem within your belief system than anything else. Recovery is about trusting and believing in things. You are free to choose whether to believe in something, or believe in nothing.
EDIT: Reading about aspergers made my anxiety and depression, in fact my entire life, make sense. Epiphanies do exist. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_%28feeling%29)
Very interesting - I think we often lose our identities when we suffer from anxiety and depression and we become consumed with thinking about how we feel and our negative thoughts. This article confirms that if we focus on something other than how we feel and have a goal our brains will take up that challenge and the depression will recede. Interestingly they didn't say it was the endorphins or actual physical action of exercise that helped but our mind being focused. It confirms that empowerment, us taking responsibility for our own health, and self belief are central to our well being - whether that be belief in medication, yoga, CBT .....
Less than 2 years ago I ran a marathon, I am over 40 and not a typical runners build :blush:. I trained over a period of 5 months and planned a schedule of runs, up to 4 runs a week. I used an online resource to plan the runs so they were accurately measured and I didn't get bored with the same routes, using this resource became a habit and I spent maybe 3 evenings a week planning my route. I was focussed and determined and I did it, not in a fast time I add but still an achievement.
Less than a year later I started having panic attacks and 'was forced' to stop running. What forced me? My belief that running was too much, it was tiring me out, I was physically exhausted and I felt too ill to run (I don't suffer from agoraphobia when running so this wasn't an issue) I'm still not sure if this was and is true and is probably something I should challenge as a year on from my 'crisis' I am still unwell. I have lost faith in medication but know I have a strong spirit and am stubborn and ambitious so I wonder? Would planning to run another marathon get me out of this tunnel I'm in?
Sam x
footballking
10-04-13, 18:20
If you are suffering with just depression alone, as a single entity, then yes maybe you can beat it with running.
But there is no way individuals with high anxiety which leaves them depressed, are going to go running. If the anxiety is still there, you can't remove the depression. You obviously don't suffer with health anxiety, otherwise you'd understand.
The study conducted was with people that were just depressed from what i've gathered, as there was no indication of anxiety mentioned in those people, i'm not 100% certain because I can't remember the whole article.
Tufty, that's a really good post. In the end, EVERYTHING is about mental attitude. They say in an accident, the ones who survive are the ones who stay conscious, look you in the eyes and don't surrender. Depression is like this, too. At the end of the day it is just an illness, a particularly nasty one in some cases, but anything that has an arse can have its arse kicked, right?
Anxiety and depression do not stop you being the woman you are. They just stop you from believing in your potential, or from even realising it's there. But it is still there. Depression cannot change reality by telling lies.
Here's something to help you when you're training to run your next marathon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6WGp_zPg2Y
---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:23 ----------
Footballtalking, I get your point, I really do - but you're speaking from what arty-farty books refer to as "a position of pain and helplessness".
I suffer from health anxiety, and I worry that I might damage my heart or brain, but these thoughts are the symptoms of an illness, just like fearing exercise won't help me or that I'll never get fit are also symptoms of depression.
They're just the result of negative beliefs which make me view the world through a scared, hopeless perspective. Part of getting better is altering these beliefs and learning to see a positive outcome. Exercising will strengthen my heart, extend my life, boost my self-confidence, make me fit into my nice clothes, make me more attractive and who knows, little birds and squirrels will follow me wherever I go.
In the words of Muse, I choose to strive, not because I am guaranteed to get the results I want, but because I believe they will happen if I work for them.
If you are suffering with just depression alone, as a single entity, then yes maybe you can beat it with running.
But there is no way individuals with high anxiety which leaves them depressed, are going to go running. If the anxiety is still there, you can't remove the depression. You obviously don't suffer with health anxiety, otherwise you'd understand.
The study conducted was with people that were just depressed from what i've gathered, as there was no indication of anxiety mentioned in those people, i'm not 100% certain because I can't remember the whole article.
I don't have health anxiety - the acedemic study is not about health anxiety either - the study is not therefore bullshit. You are sensitized to the issue because of your own related health fears so it would not be helpful or relevent to you or someone in your state. For me it presents a revolutionary case against antidepressents for depression that would benefit from more investigation. My rant over.
I think exercise can help those with anxiety (not health anxiety or agoraphobia) as it draws the attention away from the self as previously mentioned. It's also a natural thing to do, humans are used to having exercise. I wander if evolution will eliminate the need for exercise at all though.....
If you are suffering with just depression alone, as a single entity, then yes maybe you can beat it with running.
But there is no way individuals with high anxiety which leaves them depressed, are going to go running. If the anxiety is still there, you can't remove the depression. You obviously don't suffer with health anxiety, otherwise you'd understand.
The study conducted was with people that were just depressed from what i've gathered, as there was no indication of anxiety mentioned in those people, i'm not 100% certain because I can't remember the whole article.
I quite agree with you. But still it depends on certain people. Not all the time an individual is strong enough to face any situation, of course we know that if we are depressed, we feel very low, we think we are all alone and very weak. Exercise can greatly help us but before we consider a certain activity, we should check our body if we can really sustain it. Though depression is still a very tricky disorder, the more we deal it, sometimes the more it will complicate but if we deal in a smooth way, there is a higher change we can beat it.
Good article linked to in the OP, thanks for this.
Speaking as someone whose problems definitely lean towards depression a lot more than anxiety (both largely cured at present), I've had great success with exercise, I simply don't agree with those who suggest as a general statement that it doesn't work. Not only have many, many studies liked exercise with better mental health, it is my experience too.
But it's not a miracle cure, quite often what's missing is what I would call the catalyst - that "thing" that gets you off the sofa in the first place. For me, ironically, it WAS medication, finding the right medication (Mirtazapine in my case) lifted me enough to get fired up and wanting to do other things to help myself.
Also, I needed meditation to unlock the problems in my head and see how my thought processes were damaging, I am not sure exercise alone would have done that.
I tend to go through phases where sometimes my good diet slacks off, and sometimes my exercise slacks off. In both phases I do struggle to keep afloat (bear in mind I have been medication free since last year, so I am flying solo!). When I get into a routine of cycling every day, even for 15 mins, plus regular walks out into the country, it has an amazing positive effect.
The best way I can describe the effect of exercise, long term, is it makes the world seem more "solid", more real and more manageable to me. As opposed to medication which kind of sticks a fluffy barrier between me and reality so I can cope, or meditation and other spiritual stuff which seems more an escape into a nice place.
I have always thought a good diet is also critical, but that's another subject :)
little wren
11-04-13, 12:47
I think exercise can help those with anxiety (not health anxiety or agoraphobia) as it draws the attention away from the self as previously mentioned. It's also a natural thing to do, humans are used to having exercise. I wander if evolution will eliminate the need for exercise at all though.....
Hi panchoGoz I think exercise can most certainly help those with agoraphobia. The exercise just takes place in your own home :). The human body is what it is - it does respond to endorphins. Also I think exercise makes you have a better belief in the resilience of your own body - that it can be out of breath and have a quick heartbeat and still be ok.
I suffer from agoraphobia and before I got ill we used to go cycling and walking 10 miles or so 'just for fun' and it was one of the best things to clear a worried mind because the adrenaline would just get used up in the activity.
Tufty is this what you mean when you say you don't suffer from agoraphobia when running? The adrenaline is used up in flight (the run)?
Thanks incognito for sharing the article. I read the link to the original paper too and in their discussion section they do acknowledge some of the shortcomings (e.g. as participants were volunteers maybe they already had a belief exercise would work). Really enjoyed the article - the idea of exercise and self identity is fascinating.
I forget we can exercise in our homes lol I had running and cycling in my head. My granddad has an exercise bike he used. I think it cheered him up and gave him a sense of achievment.
Perhaps part of exercising outside is the fact of going outside.
it is easy to said you should exercise if you have anxiety. But when I had it it was difficult for me to get up from bed especially not to exercise. But if you are able to exercise it is a huge step in curing anxiety. Combining exercise with medication is best option.
Nice to see Ingenious still living up to his name! Another thoughtful, well-written and reasoned post.
Exercise is like medication: it can help, but it is not a cure for most of the causes of depression. The only cure is to discover the hidden, harmful beliefs that you have, then challenge them one by one over a period of weeks and months.
So instead of seeing exercise as a weapon of war, we should acknowledge that it promotes health, long life, well-being (physical and mental) and can make us feel good about ourselves. The burned out feeling some of us get afterwards can be unpleasant - until you remind yourself that it's just another symptom of depression, just another negative belief telling us that we can't do something which we really can.
I've just caught up with the posts and yes, Little Wren when I was struggling with agoraphobia I was sometimes able to run. Often during the run I would be thinking 'OMG I can't do this, I'm going to stop and ask that person to phone an ambulance' not because I physically couldn't do it but I was panicking even after running 2 miles, but by the time I'd run 6 miles and got home I felt great. I had the rush of endorphins, the sense of achievement, tiredness which meant I would sleep better and I felt better about myself.
Sam
This is a really interesting thread. I suffered from agoraphobia and high anxiety and I would say that exercise helped me a lot with both of these. I would force myself to go to work every day, as a self employed gardener, because I had no choice. I would panic on the way to work (my husband would be driving), but when I got to work and started throwing myself into the job, it would give me an escape from the anxiety and the agoraphobia. I could focus on physically exerting myself and doing a good job. I believe doing this gave expanded my world greatly and gave me the constant exposure I needed to help with the agoraphobia. Unfortunately I now I have symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome and physical work makes me extremely fatigued. I hate it because exercise was always my escape and now I don't have that and it makes me even more anxious. I would love to be able to throw myself into something and get those endorphins flowing, but all it does is make me so tired I can't stand or think straight and I get shakey spaced out. Wish I knew what to do about it.
I attended a lecture recently that looked at depression and the effects of genetic expression. Exercise is a positive mediator of reducing the effect of genes that influence depression.
Also chatting to an author of the Lothian birth cohort (tracked people from birth in 1921 and 1936 throughout their life) and exercise is one of te biggest mediators of physical and cognitive health.
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