CBT - is this it?

[Snoodlester]

Well I finally had my first CBT today. As my travelling fear has become so bad I had to do this over the phone.

The first half hour was going over a pre-set questionnaire to find out about my mood/feelings. Then the last half hour we discussed my two main issues (although there are many more which we didn't get to) - travelling (I can barely travel to the end of the road without panicking) and going back home (where I live alone). I wasn't given anything constructive on either of these things, and I was told I would have to make all the suggestions/decisions myself. I explained that my main problem is anticipatory anxiety and that I've currently got physical symptoms which is feeding my anxiety/panic. She just said oh dear I can see why that's a problem - it's a viscous circle isn't it? I explained that I'm anxious most of the time and she just said I should talk to my GP again - but I've done this so many times and I'm told just to carry on with the tablets.

Anyway we agreed I'd concentrate on my breathing, as when I'm in full panic this goes out the window. The therapist then said, how are you going to go about doing this? And I said, I thought you would be able to tell me. She said no, I'm here to guide not to steer! I said maybe for half an hour each morning when I wake up really early I'd concentrate on deep breathing. She said is that realistic? I'm so confused with my anxiety at the moment I didn't know what she meant so I said, do you think that's too much or too little, but she just said that's up to you?

She then pointed me towards an online resource, and there's a module I have to work through before next week. I also need to keep a diary of my thoughts, even though as I said to her I know what it'll be - every time my 'flight' feelings kick in and it's overwhelming. She just said to write it down, that it will help put things into perspective.

I was asked how helpful I thought the session was, and I had to say I thought it would be a bit more helpful and I'm finding it hard to see a light at the end of the tunnel or how CBT will help me. She just said oh, let's talk again next week.

Am I missing something? I know I have to do a lot of work too, but I thought it would be a bit more helpful than this - there we go, that's my negative voice talking again!

[NOGGIN]

Hi I have had CBT with a great lady who I saw privately i had around a dozen 45 min sessions. I will be honest and say it didn't really have a long term affect for me but was helpful at the time.
I had to do Homework through modules and it felt a bit like school.
It was very different from other therapies I had tried as it doesn't really focus on the past but deals with coping in the here and now so it's more practical than emotional.
I got the book CBT for Dummies from Amazon which might be something to look at. I like the Dummy book format, it's around £9.00.
I too suffer from anticipation anxiety and know how awful this is.
Have you been referred through your GP or is it something you arranged yourself?

[Stormsky]

The thing with cbt is you have to do most of it yourself, they just seem to listen and not too much else... Tat was my experience, didnt do much for me.

[Tufty]

My 2013 experience with CBT has been the same, she telephones me, does an anxiety and depression assessment which has risen week after week, asks me what I've been doing, praises and encourages me and tells me to carry on. I've been having this for 4 weeks now. I know it's based on changing your behaviour but the lack of interest into my thinking and feelings and the lack of clear information is leading me to question its efficacy.

In 2003 I saw an experienced CBT therapist for 10 weeks, although it didn't stop my anxiety it helped me understand it and tackle things like anticipatory anxiety by examining my thought processes. She was more interested in how I was thinking, raising my self esteem by looking at faulty bottom lines and re writing my core beliefs.

I guess it's cheaper to consult over the phone but I find it cold and not very helpful. For the past two sessions I have cried throughout, there is little she can say and empathy doesn't travel down the phone well - she left it by saying 'well I'll phone you in 2 weeks to see how you're doing'.

I'm afraid with CBT all the work does have to come from us but an experienced, caring and effective therapist will give us the tools to complete this work and unfortunately this doesn't seem to be happening. It is in all of us to recover fully, I take every therapy that is available in the hope that it will help but I believe that ultimately recovery will come from within. I'm still searching for it though :blush:. I will keep 'seeing' my CBT therapist until my session number is up and will wait to see what she will do then if I am no better.

[Snoodlester]

Thanks guys. I guess I've been waiting so long, I just thought I would be given a bit more advice and some techniques to help work through my thoughts.

My GP says she can't refer me for anything and that it's all self referral! Although she did give me the leaflet with the information..

Would be interested to find out how you get on Tufty - especially when your sessions are up. I've been told I get 6 sessions.

[daisydaisy]

Hey Snood,

I'm sorry to hear your first session was not great especially after the long wait you have had. I have to agree with everyone that CBT does seem to be more about what you can do for yourself or helping yourself more. As you know I am having counselling at the moment and perhaps this would be something to consider after the CBT comes to an end? Not that my counsellor guides me in any way but she sometimes acknowledges things or agrees with some of the difficult things I have gone through/am going through and as you know the past couple of sessions I have had with her I do come away feeling a little better or with things in perspective or just relieved I guess for talking. We do seem to jump about a bit from topic to topic but she sort of goes with it. Sometimes I feel frustrated when my hour is up as I want to keep going but I think when this ends in a few weeks I read that she can refer on or may be able to offer me something else but I think this would be a paid for service and I am not sure if I could afford the sessions as yet.

I have self referred as advised by my doctor for what I was hoping may be CBT- will PM you about this as don't want to take up your thread. I think it will be telephone work and I am worried already that I may not find this useful as I'm not great over the phone at the best of times or as Tufty mentioned above I think I'll be in tears because I get stressed trying to explain how I'm feeling etc and often this comes out through crying I think out of frustration. I don't know about everyone else but I find when they ask you questions over the phone from their 'questionnaires' my mood and feelings vary so much day to day that I get in a bit of a mess answering them etc so I'm never sure how much of a true reflection I am giving- if that makes sense?!

Keep updating this thread Snood and let us know how you get on week by week. Don't lose faith just because this may or may not work (early days) there will be other options or other types of therapy you could try.

Xx Daisy

[carousels]

The thing with cbt is you have to do most of it yourself, they just seem to listen and not too much else... Tat was my experience, didnt do much for me.

That's what I'm finding after a few weeks. I always get asked what I want to get out of the session, and my response is always "to be fixed", which never goes down well.
I don't like having to do the work for myself, didn't work for me in university and it isn't now haha.

[AnxietyGirl87]

I have had CBT twice in the past few years, both times I had about 8 sessions and it was with different therapists each time.

I honestly feel that CBT offers short-term help and at the time of having CBT I felt a little better about things, felt things were put into perspective more and I always left feeling a little happier.

However, once the sessions had stopped and a few weeks had gone past, I noticed that it really hadn't made much of a difference after all. I think its difficult because although it is all about your thoughts and behaviours, I think my mind is SO strong that it takes over every time I try and tell myself that everything will be ok.

I would see how your sessions go anyway and then see how you feel. I don't think CBT is for everyone at all, but it can help some people.

:)

[violet12]

I had CBT on the NHS about 18 months ago and although mine were face to face I never felt that they were helpful or that the therapist was very experienced. It was cold & clinical and put across in a very simplistic way which tbh was far too basic for someone with complex issues. Thats my view anyway. I've just started 4 focus sessions during which I am being assessed for the suitability of long term psychotherapy. I've only had one session so far but it already feels so much more appropriate. The CBT never came close to striking a cord with me! There were never any 'light bulb' moments as there were with the psychotherapy. But I guess different types of therapy work for different types of issues?

[AnxietyGirl87]

I had CBT on the NHS about 18 months ago and although mine were face to face I never felt that they were helpful or that the therapist was very experienced. It was cold & clinical and put across in a very simplistic way which tbh was far too basic for someone with complex issues. Thats my view anyway. I've just started 4 focus sessions during which I am being assessed for the suitability of long term psychotherapy. I've only had one session so far but it already feels so much more appropriate. The CBT never came close to striking a cord with me! There were never any 'light bulb' moments as there were with the psychotherapy. But I guess different types of therapy work for different types of issues?

I'd be really interested to find out more about your focus sessions Violet12 and how you get on etc as I feel like I am at a bit of a dead end after having CBT a second time and it not really working for me.

[violet12]

I would be happy to keep you updated with how it goes. Perhaps I will start a new thread to keep a record of how it goes. I think that would be good therapy in itself and would give me a bench mark of where I was when I started etc.

Please feel free to PM me if you want to ask anything x

[southey]

The best thing I got out of CBT was being able to talk to someone. Once the sessions were over things returned to normal(i.e bad)

Steve.

[Snoodlester]

Thanks for the replies guys :)

I had my second session today, and it was a bit different to last week. We talked mostly about my issues, and we covered quite a bit. I found myself getting upset talking about it, but it was good to actually get it off my chest. I did find it difficult when she asked how we're going to tackle my issues, especially travelling, and every time my negative voice would speak for me and I could sense a bit of impatience in her voice! So when she was trying to 'convince' me of a way of thinking, I would give the right answer as my logical voice would agree, but she could sense the doubt in my voice. I explained this to her, and she was then trying to be more encouraging and positive which helped.

For my travelling fear we've agreed that I'll go for a couple of short journeys within the next week - so fingers crossed I can do this!

[Gmanina]

I am realizing after 20 years that it is good to talk to someone however, it always comes back to me and medication to do the work, still not where I want to be but not where I use to be. I find as unbearable the symptoms can be sometimes, they are always the same and we do get through them time and again.

[Stormsky]

When you've been stuck in negative mindset for so long, it takes time and perserverence.
Your minds like a stubborn child, lets say for example a child who has always gone to bed whenever they liked...suddenly you tell the child they have to go to bed at 8 pm every night...you will get resistance , but eventually by persevering, they will get used to the change...
Same with the mind, you try a new way of positive thinking, but you meet resistance ...you'll say ' I'm strong, I deserve to be happy' and you get back from your subconscious 'yer right ,who you kidding, you'll never be strong or happy'.... You have to keep on and on to retrain your mind and thought patterns... It works in time!

[AuntieMoosie]

Well I had CBT with a therapist several years ago, I got told I'd be having 6 sessions.

I immediately felt under pressure feeling that I would have to make leaps and bounds each week to be completely recovered in 6 sessions, there was no way I was ever going to be able to do that.

As has been said, some of us have more complex issues than others and some will need more help than others :)

Unfortunately I also didn't get on to well with the therapist, I didn't like that she would talk to me as if I was a 5 year old and knew absolutely nothing!!

She also took me on a couple of walks, neither of which I can quite understand what we were meant to be doing??

So I pulled out as it just wasn't helping me at all.

I became agoraphobic in 2004, completely housebound, couldn't go anywhere except into my garden.

I thought I would stay like that forever.

However, when I joined NMP, I came across the CBT4 Panic therapy. I thought I'd give it a go, I had nothing to loose so why not??

Bingo!!!! it has worked for me :yesyes: and I started being able to go out on short trips towards the end of last year. Some of the trips where highly stressful too as I was undergoing hospital tests, but I did it :yesyes:

I love the CBT4Panic as you can do it from home in your own time :)

To be perfectly honest, I prefer this type of programme. I think to many of us, when seeing a therapist, become too attached to the therapist and we kind of believe that we can only do it because of their guidance and that is why I feel that a lot of people fail once they stop seeing their therapist, it's kind of like you've learned how to do it with your therapist but you still can't do it alone and the whole point of CBT is to learn it all yourself, so I suppose we really become our own therapist in a way :)

Keep an open mind and have a look at all of your options, and don't think that because it didn't work doing it that way, that it will never work, because it can and it does :yesyes: :hugs:

[Spot-the-frog]

AUNTIEMOOSIE: Well I had CBT with a therapist several years ago, I got told I'd be having 6 sessions.

I immediately felt under pressure feeling that I would have to make leaps and bounds each week to be completely recovered in 6 sessions, there was no way I was ever going to be able to do that.


I am having 6 sessions which my company are paying for, they are not quite CBT in fact i am not sure what they are, but I agree with AuntieMoosie 6 isn't enough. I have had 5 sessions and they have been pretty much the same, I would say one of the sessions was a waste of time. All I have been doing is graded exposure which I was doing myself anyway. I am on the waiting list for NHS CBT, I have been told that I can have up to 20 sessions of 1 hr on a 1-2-1 basis. There is a 12 week waiting list but I am prepared to wait......

[Snoodlester]

[QUOTE=Spot-the-frog;1174461]AUNTIEMOOSIE: Well I had CBT with a therapist several years ago, I got told I'd be having 6 sessions.

I immediately felt under pressure feeling that I would have to make leaps and bounds each week to be completely recovered in 6 sessions, there was no way I was ever going to be able to do that.


I'm pretty much the same - I've only got 6 sessions and the first one didn't even touch on sorting one issue let alone several!

But I've gone out for a very short journey in the car this afternoon. When we stopped at the lights I felt panicky and really thought I'd get out the car, but although it wasn't pleasant I stuck it out and did it. I even got back in the car to come home - last time I couldn't do it and walked home! So this is progress :)

[daisydaisy]

Well done Snood on the journey. Although it feels like it might not do much for you yet at the moment hopefully things will improve week by week and you can keep reviewing. As you know I'm having counselling at the moment very similar to Spot the Frog through my work. My 4th session this week wasn't as helpful and I agree with other comments here that it really depends on the rapport that you get going. My counsellor and I at the beginning often start by her looking at me and I think ok shall I go yet? Lol. Anyways I'm going to keep going with it and hoping to try CBT at some point too.

Xx

[Snoodlester]

Well, what a really crap third session.

I've been doing well recently, but for some reason woke up early again and felt down all morning. Had my phone call at 12:30 as I can't travel to see my therapist. She asked how I've been, so I filled her in. Since last Thursday I've managed to travel to the local shops 3 times, but I explained to her that every time I get panicky when we stop at the traffic lights. She tried to make me feel positive about the fact that I'd done the travelling at all, and although I said yes, she can detect doubt in my voice - as I've said to her many times before, I can understand the logic, but deep down I can't convince myself to believe it, as every time is like the last. Constantly throughout the session I could hear her sighing or tutting, which is really disheartening.

About 10 minutes in, she then said, I'm just wondering if these sessions are helping you, I think you would benefit from face-to-face sessions what do you think. This threw me, and I said yes I think that might help, but how do I do that? So she said what about services in Weston? But this made me feel very upset as I've been waiting for this CBT since February and I said to her that I can't wait all over again for help and that since waiting to speak to her I've become worse than I was originally :(

At the moment because I can't travel and I feel anxious/panicky most of the time, I feel unable to look for work, and I told her I can't carry on the way I'm going indefinitely. So we carried on our 'chat' and she started asking me questions about what's causing me problems (more than just the travelling and frankly things she should have asked during the first session) and just kept saying, oh I can see why that's a problem. She kept asking me to find solutions to these problems, but I've been thinking about them about since February, and I haven't been able to come up with anything yet. That's why I need help!

So I spent most of the session crying, and feeling even more hopeless. She said I can see that this session has been tough for you, do you know the number for the Samaritans if you need help? Thanks, that's really making me feel good.

She called back this afternoon to say that she'd spoken to their equivalent in Weston, and that I can self refer, but she didn't know if I could do this as I technically live in Bristol and am only temporarily staying in Weston. I had to ask her if she knew their waiting times and she said thought it was 6 weeks. Brilliant, I was told in February the waiting time was 4-6 weeks and it turned out to be more like 3 months! I asked if I could continue with our phone calls if I self refer with Weston and she said she doesn't know she'd have to talk to her supervisor. I basically said I'd rather her telephone support than no support, but she's not really being very helpful to be honest.

I did ask her a specific question about the travelling, which she hasn't helped with at all. Basically when I'm in the car I feel 'trapped' and have the overwhelming fear that I need to get out the car, and if I do get out the car there's nowhere for me to go. So when I'm in the car, I find mindfulness impossible as it's reminding me that I'm in the situation I fear the most and it's terrifying. I asked what she could advise - but she didn't offer me anything helpful. She suggested I take a longer journey (either distance or time). I understand and have used graduated exposure for the 'bout' of agoraphobia I had (still have a bit), but I can get through this as I know I can turn round and walk back if I absolutely have to. In the car it's not so easy to say, right I've had enough we need to turn round and go home. Again she didn't offer any practical help with this.

Finally she asked how I thought the session went - and I said I was hoping to get more advice on coping strategies or specific new ways of thinking, but I got nothing constructive. I've just come away feeling more hopeless than ever :ohmy:

[Tostado]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience Snoodlester, I have been there. I exhausted my therapy options back in 2010 and felt I had no hope. Most of my sessions were phone based too because of where I live and they did not help either.

It got so bad for me I contemplated suicide but I have two young kids who needed me so I dealt with this using a thought experiment. I set the date of my next birthday as the day I ended my life. Anything that I experienced thereafter would be my ghost unfeeling self. It sounds odd but It helped quell any suicidal tendencies.

I managed since with anti depressants until this year. I am solely relying on a CBT book which was highly recommended on Amazon. It is called Feeling Good by David D Burns. After reading just the first two chapters and working on the exercises I was provided relief and I although I still have sime tough periods I am optimistic about my prospects.

Would you consider a book yourself?

Tostado

[daisydaisy]

Hey Snood,

That is so disappointing and I feel so cross reading your story because you have waited for so long to access this and also quite rightly as you have said if they had seen you sooner maybe things wouldn't have got worse.

I really think counselling would be useful for you just you and a counsellor face to face- not CBT over phone. I can't remember if you are signing on as such but you must have access to some services in your area- could your temporary GP refer you? I can't understand when they say you're still living in Bristol because clearly for however many weeks now you have been back with your parents and mental health doesn't choose where it rears its ugly head and regardless of where you are you should be able to access services. I think many people have sought comfort with their parents too I know I did 10 weeks ago as I just felt safe there and therefore you should get the service there.

Instead of Samaritans have you called Mind? They have a great telephone channel and may be able to tell you about services in your area. I know travel is an issue for you but there must be something available to you- I fail to believe that phone CBT from your own NHS trust in Bristol is the only thing you qualify for with your symptoms. You are doing everything you can to get better. I think you need to go back to your GP and say you have tried CBT but so far you feel very disappointed in the sessions and are really no further forward. You can see from lots of the responses on here not everyone has responded to CBT and it really does depend on the therapist and the relationship you get going.

As I mentioned before my therapist is a bit bizarre to me in some ways but she had holiday last week and I have to admit I missed the session more than I thought I would as its my one hour a week to offload and try and work through things.

I really hope you can find out more about what you can be offered. I would strongly recommend seeing your GP in the area you are now and also getting in touch with mind or even googling any charities in your local area who you may be able to reach out to.

:hugs: xx