View Full Version : My CBT therapy, I'm not sure if its helping.
Hi all,
I've seen my CBT therapist 4 times so far, he missed out two sessions in the middle due to illness and bank holiday.
First he told me that nothing will help in a panic attack, which shocked me.
I said about my practices with breathing and meditation, and my Dr. Claire Weekes concepts of facing accepting floating through and lettting time pass in a panic, and he said he had never heard of her., and poo parred it.
He said meditation is for depression, and that the breathing wouldn't help either. This left me with nothing to have as a backup in the panics.
Straight away I was supposed to be doing a mindfull class, but he said, as it was agoraphobia, it wouldn't help as I still had a problem with going into a room full of people to sit for 2 hours.
So he said, he could give me CBT instead, this is all on the NHS.
He directly got into "safeties" and I was to practice at my local Teasco's, first leaving my water bottle behind etc etc, it worked ok
Before the CBT I had had
EMDR combined with councilling and it really did help, for the first time in 33yrs I felt I was getting somewhere, I'd been doing well for three years, and had gone from strength to strength, even being able to sit in coffee shops, and stores in town. I did my walks for exercise, and mindfully took on more things. It was going well, then last session, he said that, " anything only works if you believe in it " this disturbed me, but I thought ok, let just keep practicing, so off I go to tesco's and, bang. The security alarm went off as I went out. At the door the security guard checked everything and said the tag on the dvd I had may of broken inside. I opened it and it had slid under the dvd and scratched it. So he said we will replace it, and I followed him to the back of the store where he had to go and get permission for replacement. As he disapeared my anxiety exploded, I wanted to escape, but was rooted to the floor, and thought he would think I was guilty of something, I tried my coping stuff, after a long period of total panic, and at last he came back with a new dvd, and walked me to the door.
I'm now experiencing, a not wanting to leave the house, all the safeties which I let go of are back, I'm shaking if I do try to do tesco's, I had to take my wife with me last time, and I feel, I've been sabotaged by the very people who are supposed to help.
Is this a normal way to start CBT ? or am I being duped. Any experiences with CBT or tips would help immensely as I've lost my confidence in everything I do.
Cxxx
Hi Challior,
I am currently undergoing CBT but am paying for this privately as couldn't wait for NHS.
I get on well with my therapist and have never been made to feel the way that you have it seems yours doesn't understand where you are coming from.
it doesn't seem that he is doing you any good. all it seems that has been done is for him to take away your comfort blanket but they shouldn't do this if there has been nothing else put in its place.
When I first started my therapist asked lots of things about me to get an understanding of what my troubles were. My first behavioural experiment was a trip to tescos for a coffee. Because he was with me I felt safe. I had problems with walking in places as I fear people are staring at me, while we were out he made me ask members of staff where things were as I have trouble talking to people. at no time did I feel that I had to do something if I couldn't do it.
If you are not comfortable with your therapist as it seems then is there a chance you can swap to another one. I wouldn't give up on CBT as it has helped me do lots. But sometimes you just dont click with some one and it doesn't work.
Hope I have been able to help and not waffled on too much.
Please dont give up on CBT just yet
Thanks Moley, sounds like you have got a good CBT therapist and I wish you all the best with it.
As for mine...............
Initially, the CBT therapist was very blunt cocky and in my face, saying he could make me panic anytime, and that he would at some stage, first make himself panic and then calm, then get me to do it with him. I've asked him how to do it, thinking it must be shallow breathing or something to do with breath, but, he wont tell me.
I do like straight taking, and really want to get better, so I wont give up, till I cant get out the house, but I would like at least something to be able to hang on to.
He said even elongating the out breath breathing when hyperventilating was no good. And I'm not having that one at all as I've proved it to myself over many years experience.
How can I trust someone to give me the correct advice, if he is saying these things to me.
I'm thinking of confronting him about all this, in a nice way, but because I'm still sensitive to what others say, it does affect me greatly, I've slowed down on all my positive stuff, thinking it dont work, where inside I know its all I have.
well I feel that you have to do what is the best for yourself. I am lucky my therapist has experienced want I am going through so totally understands.
AuntieMoosie
18-06-13, 21:54
Oh goodness me, I'm so sorry you've had this experience with your therapist challoir.
I'm actually a bit gob smacked to be honest.
Why on earth did he tell you all those negative things for goodness sake???
I'm going to say here and now, that I totally and completely disagree with him.
There are always things that you can do when you're in panic, I actually find it best to just let it happen and just go with it, because I know it will pass:)
But this is something that I've learned to do from doing CBT4Panic, and this is the sort of thing that your therapist should be teaching you.
Clare Weeks is excellent and she is spot on about the floating through it.
I think your therapist is at best, too in love with himself and what he believes, and at worst highly irresponsible!!!
You must have felt like you were going to be walking a tight rope with no harness or net and that's an awful thing to have you believe because it's just not true :)
I had CBT with an NHS therapist years ago and sadly it just didn't work for me, I found my therapist too hard, too cold and, to be honest, quite rude in her manner. She also wanted to induce me to have a panic attack in her office, I refused immediately and I'm glad I did. I just can't for the life of me, understand what that is supposed to achieve?? We already suffer from panic attacks so why the heck do we need a therapist to induce one??? we know what they feel like!! I may be wrong here, as this is only my opinion, but I just don't understand that theory???
I do understand gradual exposure and I do understand having to feel anxious in order for us to learn how to deal with it, but to induce a full blown panic attack to me just seems silly. I mean, if I'd have had a full blown panic attack in her office, that would have probably been the last time I would have gone there because at that point, I was busy avoiding anything that would likely bring on an attack!!!
It is, of course, entirely your decision as to what you want to do.
But it sounds to me like you really don't understand him and you don't understand why he is telling you the things that he is, and neither would I, none of it makes sense to me.
Maybe have a face to face chat with him and really let him know that his therapy at the moment is not helping you at all and that you don't understand it and then see what he says.
Please don't let this put you off of CBT though, because I know there are some excellent therapist out there who do excellent work with their clients and with very, very good results. Remember one bad experience doesn't mean they are all like that because they're not:)
Please let us know how you go hun :hugs:
Oh thanks for that AuntieMoosie,
I think I just needed someone to understand and let me know what I'm experiencing is a bit harsh.
And your right, as I suspected.
This really did ring a bell :)
I think your therapist is at best, too in love with himself and what he believes, and at worst highly irresponsible!!!
I can see the benefit of the gradual desensitising ideas, as there the same as Dr. Claires, but the way he is doing it for me is far too harsh. He plants seeds of doubt in anything I try to say, so I end up doubting everything thats kept me alive for the last 33 years.
Maybe he is trying to break me, I am going to ask him about all this as its gone on for long enough now.
Thankyou again for your reply, its given me hope.
All the best
C
This therapist seems totally disconnected to reality if you ask me...... Why on earth come out with all those things? If I were in that situation, I think I would want a different therapist. Mine was lovely to me. When it came to me having to face how I avoided things and what I could do to change them, we would discuss what was going on in my mind. Then she would help me see the reality of the situation and how disproportionate my thinking was. Gradually I learned to tolerate situations that made me feel uncomfortable. At no point EVER did she come out with the sorts of things you describe. This man strikes me as being far from professional. I wish I had it in me to be a therapist coz I could be your one and then you could feel totally comfortable. You could explore things that make you feel uncomfortable, look at the facts of the situation and see how your thinking is distorted. Then, in time, you would begin facing this things you fear, gradually overcome the fear and then get well. That is how I would anticipate CBT working...... Which as you can see appears to be poles apart from your experience.
Hi Tessar,
Thankyou very much for replying.
Your right, that was my understanding of CBT, he's doing the gradual stuff with me loosing my safeties, but its the denouncing of everything I believed in thats messing me up. Surely Dr. Claire Weekes knew how to help, and give a good treatment plan that worked.
And " I have to believe in something before it will work ? " surely a sane man would try it out first, and by practice see if it was working or not.
I'll ask him about all this on friday, I might be misunderstanding or it might be like I said a way of breaking someone, then starting again, like the army does.
Thanks again
C
Hi Challoir, I'm glad that you were thinking along the same lines as me - and that you are being shown how to gradually lose the safety behaviours.
I think that we all have behaviours we use to cope with things. I suppose its finding things you can do which calm the fear and prevent anxiety.
For example; I have been challenging myself with several flights for work recently. This will be ongoing now. At least 2 short flights every other week probably. By repeatedly doing this I am hoping the fear will get less and less. In so doing, I'm trying to find healthy ways of distracting myself when I feel triggered. This might be taking pictures out of the plane window for instance (this keeps my mind busy and stops me looking around at other passengers and stuff like that).
Another example might be; sometimes I worry that people are staring at me. These days instead of worrying about myself and focusing inwards all the time; I focus on other people. Like at work, in a meeting. Instead of thinking they are all starting at me, I will get self-conscious, blush and they will all think I look stupid (and must run away), I do look at the others in the meeting and that helps me not think about myself all the time. Plus I realise I'm not stupid either and I do things that build my self-confidence. Also I now refuse as much as possible to go back to where I was. I look out for "critical voices" (i.e. people in my past who were horrible to me.... who put negative views about myself in my mind). if I hear the critical voices I know they are wrong. Instead I lok at the reality and realise I am intelligent, not stupid and that I have much to offer people (and to offer myself come to that).
Perhaps your therapists viewpoint is that by denouncing everything, he's trying to demonstrate you can just cope. You dont need things to use as coping methods.
But I agree with you. What Dr. Claire Weekes suggests has worked for many, many people. The suggestion is something sensible. It doesnt harm you. It helps. So in that respsect I'm not sure why he'd do that.
For me, when I was doing therapy, it was often difficult to believe the things that "reality" suggested were true (my issues included self-esteem, self-confidence.... because I lacked them I felt really self-conscious and that lead to my depression & feeling anxious in many "high pressure" situations or even every day situations at my worst). I did learn to tolerate feeling uncomfortable. It is possible but along side that I'm sure you do need to have methods of coping. Such as relaxation. Surely he wouldnt dismiss that? Like learning to breath effectively when feelings of anxiety or panic arise.
It took me time then to believe in what was being suggested to me but eventually I came to believe in myself. I was given forms to fill out each time I felt triggered. These helped me unpick my confusing and feelings.
Different things work for different people. That's why yes you'd want to try something and see if it works. no different to medication really. sometimes it works for you, other times it doesnt. Actually things that I wasnt interested in trying during therapy a few years ago, do now come to mind. I was unable to share my emotions properly then but these days I can. that has come out of years of practice. Gradually allowing myself to open up and relax with the right people, it has come together.
CBT is an ongoing thing. Once you learn solid skills, you carry on using them for the rest of your life. I certainly do... every day.
It's an excellent ide to ask him about all this on friday. You're right, it might be a misunderstanding. If he was tyring to break you down to starting again, like the army does, well I'd not agree with that. People I've known in life who have tried that on me (like my football team manager) got nothing back out of me except aggression as all they did was upset me, and so I'd bite back!!!
If prefer a more caring and emotional approach. That's of course how I like it, others might find that too full on. Of course, even though my therapist was very caring towards me, ultimately I did all the hard work. It was me who faced my issues but with her supporting me. I guess in my case as I had alot of childhood issues left over, we had to deal with, so it was very intense. But fundamentally the CBT aspect of it worked just the same as it would for anyone.
All the best and let us all know how you get on tomorrow!!
Hi Tessar,
Thankyou very much for replying with your insights into CBT.
I'm thinking there may be an alternative approach that he can take, one that contains a little compassion and caring.
Thankyou all again
wishing you all a peacefull day.
Cxxx
Hi All,
Just one update before I put this to bed.
I talked it over with my therapist, and its all ok now.
We identified that I sabotaged my practice, with my " its got to be perfect or I'm a total failure " in my head.
I've also put back in place my meditation, my breathing, my lack of faith, and my coping strategy.
I think its all good, and do feel positive, just hope the health results from this go soon too.
Thankyou for all your positive replies. It helped give me the confidence.
Wishing you all well
Cxxx
Challoir.... I'm really pleased you had such a positive outcome from this session today. And well done for bringing this up too. One reason I like this site is because sharing my issues helps make me more confident too so I'm glad it has had that affect for you as well. I might have struggled to say things myself were i in your situation as I am not very assertive sometimes. But you did it. As regards your health improving, well it will in time, CBT can be quite taxing at times, but I guess that is because it's a time if upheaval and challenges. But in the longer term, it will improve your life and the benefits in time will make the efforts you are putting in now with all the effort,
Thanks Tessar,
Yes I was surprised at how I went in and said my piece.
I do care for this therapist, maybe today he learn't something too.
I'm back to practicing again, back to the beginning.
And I'm taking my meditation, my elongating breathing, my Dr. Claire Weekes, and my doubts with me :)
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