View Full Version : CBT not working
I've got 8 sessions of CBT left and I really don't think it's helping.
Every session is the same, going over the details of my worries and doing surveys etc, she just keeps explaining about the cycle of anxiety and how it's anxiety making me need the toilet (the CBT is focused on my worry of needing the loo while out and about). I know all the facts already and it doesn't matter how many times she reasurres me nothing is helping as I always do need the toilet because of my anxiety. She just doesn't seem to get that my anxiety is the root cause of this and that's what needs fixing first. (She said if you didnt have the toilet worry then you wouldnt have anxiety and would be able to go out and live normally) But this isnt the case, I have social anxiety, GAD, panic etc. I've told her this but I feel like she doesn't want to address this as there isn't enough time to do so in 8 sessions. I don't know what to do, I feel my anxiety has many different forms and phobias that stem from it, I just don't want to continue with this if its going to be a waste of time and unnecessary stress. But then again I feel like giving up would be ungrateful of me as I know many people struggle to access this therapy. I just don't know :(
i tried cbt to i didnt find it helpfull to be honest they tell us what we already know we all no how the anxiety works what we want is how to stop it i have suffed over 30yrs and even though its lifted but never gone every time it comes bk i am worse than before i to have panic attacks and agraphobia to wich as been worse this time than ever i list to clair weeks read her books tried eft read all the books hypnossis acupuncture a new thaerpy call time line my brother paid 250 for me to have 2 6hour sessions it didnt work we all no its only us that can change the way we are if only that was as easy to do as it is to write none of us would be on here take care trish x
Snoodlester
24-06-13, 11:17
Hi Jasimine
I'm exactly the same. My therapist keeps repeating stuff I already know, and she knows I know it. And each time she asks the same questions, and rather than offering advice just keeps saying, I can see why that's difficult. She does keep asking how I think the session/s are going (perhaps she has a self-esteem issue?) and I do say that I had thought she might be able to give me some coping strategies, or mechanisms to change my thinking. I'm carrying on, as I feel some support is better than nothing - but she made me feel really bad about myself after last Thursday's session, and I'm only now starting to feel a bit better again.
I too have recently developed a toilet issue, which is adding to my anxieties, and I think my therapist did try and use the 'downward arrow technique' to find out what I'm thinking deep down. Even when I could see that it all stems from embarrassment and what other people think, she didn't give me anything to tackle the issue.
Sue x
CBT can be really good, but it does depend on the therapist. Because you only get a short course, they tend to focus on only one issue, and that's not terribly helpful if they're misinterpreting what you're trying to tell them is the biggest issue.
I had a similar experience a few years ago when I was sent for CBT to deal with my IBS. I also felt my therapist misunderstood the causes of my anxiety, and didn't really help me at all. Fortunately I was eventually sent to a gastroenterologist who has address my IBS with medication, and within a month of it taking effect, my anxiety about going out has completely gone away. (I still have other anxiety problems, but agorophobia isn't one of them.)
I have previously had some very helpful CBT therapy, so I wouldn't give up on CBT altogether, though I can appreciate that this approach is not helping you. You have expressed yourself very clearly and frankly in your post, so if you're having difficulty explaining your needs to your therapist, maybe writing them down would be a good way to explain what you'd like to address in the time you have left.
I hope you can get the help you deserve. I know how frustrating it can be when they don't seem to be listening. If they really won't help then I personally would walk away - that's probably not the right thing to do, but it's what I would do when someone's ides of help is actually just making me feel worse.
I don't think CBT really works as a short course when there is more than one issue to deal with. I pay for private CBT and have been going since September 2012 and don't know when I will stop. It took along time for my therapist and myself to figure out what my core belief was that is driving all my anxieties. We are making progress but it is slow at times depending on how my depression is affecting me. when my mood is really low we cant push forward with behavioural experiments. I have recently changed my medication and been put on the sick from work so my therapist and I are now pushing forward.
Hope you don't give up. you may be able to find something in the last few weeks to help you.
Thanks everyone for your replies! Well I went back to CBT on Monday after posting this and mentioned the social anxiety again, but this time I made sure she listened to me! She seemed quite flustered with it, like I was causing more work I guess. I explained that my social anxiety came first and the toilet worries are what followed due to the physical symptoms of panic and, what I realised then, the fear of being embarrassed in social situations. I didn't realise the toilet worry was to do with being afraid of social humiliation, but it does make sense now. I then mentioned how anxiety/depression runs in my family (my mum, nan, dad, brother slightly and even relatives who I have never even met but have heard about their social anxiety by other family members) to which she replied with anxiety isn't genetic and is only learnt. I argued this a little as I'm not 100% convinced, but when I seemed like I didn't believe her she then said 'don't you think therapy will work then'. I was a little annoyed by this because I don't really know what to believe, I don't know all the answers and it was if she was saying well it's my way or the highway. I understand they have certain rules and ways of working thearpy but still, you need to treat each person as an individual in my opinion and be more open to things as a therapist. Anyway, after that little debate we then agreed on a plan to tackle the toilet worries and then work on the social anxiety afterwards as the toilet one is what is more troublesome at the moment (I can't go out until I get this under control and obviously can't tackle social anxiety if I don't go out and see people!) She said she'd work up a new plan with her supervisor. I don't know if this means I will need extra weeks, or whether it will be all crammed into the remaining sessions I have left. I hope so much that it will solve everything but I'm still on the fence, how can you fix something so severe that has been bothering someone for 7 years in just a matter of weeks?
---------- Post added at 19:35 ---------- Previous post was at 19:19 ----------
i tried cbt to i didnt find it helpfull to be honest they tell us what we already know we all no how the anxiety works what we want is how to stop it i have suffed over 30yrs and even though its lifted but never gone every time it comes bk i am worse than before i to have panic attacks and agraphobia to wich as been worse this time than ever i list to clair weeks read her books tried eft read all the books hypnossis acupuncture a new thaerpy call time line my brother paid 250 for me to have 2 6hour sessions it didnt work we all no its only us that can change the way we are if only that was as easy to do as it is to write none of us would be on here take care trish x
Hi trish, totally agree, they just tell us what we already know, to be honest I think we know it better than they do anyway, it is us after all that are going through it! Sorry the other options haven't worked out for you, why does it have to be so difficult! x
Hi Jasimine
I'm exactly the same. My therapist keeps repeating stuff I already know, and she knows I know it. And each time she asks the same questions, and rather than offering advice just keeps saying, I can see why that's difficult. She does keep asking how I think the session/s are going (perhaps she has a self-esteem issue?) and I do say that I had thought she might be able to give me some coping strategies, or mechanisms to change my thinking. I'm carrying on, as I feel some support is better than nothing - but she made me feel really bad about myself after last Thursday's session, and I'm only now starting to feel a bit better again.
I too have recently developed a toilet issue, which is adding to my anxieties, and I think my therapist did try and use the 'downward arrow technique' to find out what I'm thinking deep down. Even when I could see that it all stems from embarrassment and what other people think, she didn't give me anything to tackle the issue.
Sue x
Hi Sue, your definitely right there! I hadn't realised that the toilet worry was related to social anxiety, but it does all make sense now. I wonder if it's the therapy not working for us or the therapist? I did CBT a while back for health anxiety and it did work, but this could be the type of problem and the severity as I had only had it probably less than a year. The problem for me is no matter how hard I try I can never convince myself to stay calm during a panic. I can't control the physical symptoms which then fuels the toilet worry. It's a vicious cycle! Are you having therapy for social anxiety or the toilet issue may I ask? x
CBT can be really good, but it does depend on the therapist. Because you only get a short course, they tend to focus on only one issue, and that's not terribly helpful if they're misinterpreting what you're trying to tell them is the biggest issue.
I had a similar experience a few years ago when I was sent for CBT to deal with my IBS. I also felt my therapist misunderstood the causes of my anxiety, and didn't really help me at all. Fortunately I was eventually sent to a gastroenterologist who has address my IBS with medication, and within a month of it taking effect, my anxiety about going out has completely gone away. (I still have other anxiety problems, but agorophobia isn't one of them.)
I have previously had some very helpful CBT therapy, so I wouldn't give up on CBT altogether, though I can appreciate that this approach is not helping you. You have expressed yourself very clearly and frankly in your post, so if you're having difficulty explaining your needs to your therapist, maybe writing them down would be a good way to explain what you'd like to address in the time you have left.
I hope you can get the help you deserve. I know how frustrating it can be when they don't seem to be listening. If they really won't help then I personally would walk away - that's probably not the right thing to do, but it's what I would do when someone's ides of help is actually just making me feel worse.
Thanks so much Edie for this post! It really explains what I'm thinking better than what I said! She does seem to only be focusing on the one problem when really it's just a smaller part of a bigger issue. Hopefully I will have got through to her now though and she'll start to work on both issues, although I am concerned about the time scale with it only being a short course like you said. Anyway, I'm glad to hear you finally got the help you deserve, hopefully things are continuing well for you!
I don't think CBT really works as a short course when there is more than one issue to deal with. I pay for private CBT and have been going since September 2012 and don't know when I will stop. It took along time for my therapist and myself to figure out what my core belief was that is driving all my anxieties. We are making progress but it is slow at times depending on how my depression is affecting me. when my mood is really low we cant push forward with behavioural experiments. I have recently changed my medication and been put on the sick from work so my therapist and I are now pushing forward.
Hope you don't give up. you may be able to find something in the last few weeks to help you.
Thanks Moley for your response. I agree with you in that there isn't much time to deal with more than one issue, that's my worry right now. May I ask, without sounding rude, how much roughly your private sessions are? I didn't realise this was an option but I'd really be interested in looking into it as I think I do need much longer treatment. Hope you can make some good progress in the time you have off work :)
You sound like you have a good grasp on the issues at hand so in my mind you are half way there to a solution.
Can you fix something so severe that has been bothering someone for 7 years in a few weeks? Well that depends on how quickly YOU are able to fix your mistaken thinking rather than necessarily the quality of the therapy you are prescribed.
I agree with you that there may be a family link to all our neuroses. And whilst I appreciate what your therapist says in that it is not genetic, I believe we may have certain personality traits or learned behaviours and opinions which have been instilled in us that can predispose us within a family towards neuroses. Add to that genetic predispositions to perhaps a sensitive nervous system then you begin to see that our anxieties could well be familial.
Tackling your fear of social embarrassment is key. List out all the symptoms you experience and follow through their story to what that would mean we're they to happen. Then you can begin to pick apart each one, that is the cognitive work. It is time consuming and repetitive. Almost like a brain washing. But brains CAN be re programmed if you are willing to work hard. This is what your therapist should be helping you with. It will take weeks of repetition.
When this is grounded and understood and you are beginning to believe your new thoughts, THEN you can start the behavioural work. proving the cognitions.
Tiny trips at first. Almost pick a laughably easy task. Do it until you think nothing of it. Again it is repetitive and boring and you feel like you may be getting nowhere.
Think of stroke victims who must learn to walk again with months of intensive physio. It takes months if not years of dedication, two steps forwards and one step back etc for them to crack it. It is no different. You can't reprogram a brain just by someone telling you "oh it's all in your head, read this about fight and flight... Understand ? Right off you go and live your life..."
Sorry... Doesn't work like that in my experience.
Check out the link in my signature if you haven't already tried the CBT recommended by this site. You sound more than intelligent enough to work through it. Good luck.
For me, it was a case of learning the coping skills (the facts that help you see there is no threat, it won't happen, bla bla bla) but also..... And I agree with you Jayjoe .... A very important part of the whole process for me was the emotional support I got, learning to realise I didn't ned to be socially anxious. That I wasn't fat or ugly, stupid and so on, that I was just as good as every other person opinion the world. If I'd not had that side if things dealt with, then I doubt it would have worked for me. In fact, I had a big relapse in my emotions, including social anxiety, even feeling anxious at work amongst good friends, and what got me through? Again a combination of (1) the practical skills I learned in CBT but also (2) the emotional support and encouragement of my counsellor.
Because I'd been thro long and deep therapy and learned the CBT stuff thoroughly,. I hadn't forgotten it at all. What I needed was deep emotional support from someone who really could relate to my difficulties. And that is what helped me through this time,conce learned the CBT skills can help you for the rest of your life,CBT to start applying them properly, I do believe you need to address what lies behind anxiety.
That's why I agree with you Jayjoe,
Lisa Morgan
27-06-13, 22:37
Hi Jasmin I know that CBT is not for everyone and its not easy to keep going when it doesn't seem to be helping. In your mind you have a video running of your panic attacks and wanting the loo while your out. Try playing a relaxing cd while you are visualising yourself out and about relaxed and happy. Do this as often as you can. It may seem pointless at first but the more you practise this exercise it will become more real in your mind. Instead of running the negative pictures you can just as easily replace them now with stronger more positive feelings. It worked for me. :yesyes:
lifesfighter92
27-06-13, 22:47
Same here so frustrating , I'm out of ideas , I'm not goin on meds either , never
Ive been told my next session is the last. Its 5th or 6th. Definitely not enough.
Have been going onto self help websites myself and getting help.
It is working a bit and so far have learnt to stop the full blown panic attack.
Still have lots to do to conquer fear of driving and socializing.
Ive got to do it myself, what else is there really.
Hi Jasmin,
I pay £45 for an hour session. when I was looking into they were therapists that charged a bit less and some who charged more. But I just picked one and thought I would see how we got on and would try someone else if I needed to. but the therapist I found is great he has been through very similar experiences to myself so I find we have a good connection. which I think is very important. Hope you find the help you need.
Thanks for the advice Pinktel, Tessar & Lisa Morgan, what you have all said really helps and I'm going to give the suggestions a go, I'm just annoyingly one of those people that thinks too much on a logical level and doesn't give the smaller activities enough time to work. I'm also a pain when it comes to relaxing but I bet everyone here is the same! I'm running out of options at this point so I'm really going to try and set my mind to do these little tasks.
Same here so frustrating , I'm out of ideas , I'm not goin on meds either , never
Same here lifesfighter, I'm running out of options at this point, may I ask why you're against meds?
Ive been told my next session is the last. Its 5th or 6th. Definitely not enough.
Have been going onto self help websites myself and getting help.
It is working a bit and so far have learnt to stop the full blown panic attack.
Still have lots to do to conquer fear of driving and socializing.
Ive got to do it myself, what else is there really.
5 or 6 sessions doesn't seem a lot at all flori!
I wonder if there are any other therapies that last much longer for people with more than one issue?
Hi Jasmin,
I pay £45 for an hour session. when I was looking into they were therapists that charged a bit less and some who charged more. But I just picked one and thought I would see how we got on and would try someone else if I needed to. but the therapist I found is great he has been through very similar experiences to myself so I find we have a good connection. which I think is very important. Hope you find the help you need.
Thanks Moley for your response, I think if the therapy helps then it's worth every penny! Definitely will look into this in the future if I need to.
jayjoe18; here's something to reflect upon....... I can appreciate why you'd say you are "annoyingly one of those people that thinks too much on a logical level and doesn't give the smaller activities enough time to work". That sounds pretty familiar to me and indeed I'm sure others in here too would agree.
But, the good news is, that despite feeling that way.... it is possible to change, Really it is.
You also say "I'm also a pain when it comes to relaxing but I bet everyone here is the same! " I agree again. And for sure, others here will too. It's quite hard to relax, I'm the same. But I'm getting better at it and for my money.... one of the ways that you improve is indeed as you rightly say..... "I'm really going to try and set my mind to do these little tasks".
Little tasks they may be. Futile at the beginning perhaps. But what you can't appreciate at the outset is that these "little tasks" build and build until one day you achieve something amazing that you never thought possible.
I'm not just making this up as I have been there. That place that you think you are stuck in forever. But when you do give it a go, the results do come providing with each step forward you keep pressing on, be determined. Tell yourself you are not going to give up or give in, you are going to keep at it.
So, remind yourself often of what you said "I'm really going to try and set my mind to do these little tasks".
Also, perhaps think of it like this. If you were putting a jigsaw together, then you might have perhaps 500, 1,000 or even 5,000 pieces. Well, maybe your "little tasks" are the jigsaw pieces. When you get enough of them you create something really worthwhile. A beautiful picture perhaps. And you will feel such a sense of achievement and gain that much confidence that the little tasks will become second nature. That's how you build. Eventually you can attempt something big. And believe me this is entirely achievable. And it's those "little tasks" jayjoe, that will start you off in the right direction.......
Thank you Tessar for that, you're so good with words! I love the jigsaw quote! I think for me I've made progress but then something has happened to knock me back or the anxiety started creeping back in and instead of tackling it, I've ran away, back to square one. This has relieved the anxiety for the time being and made me feel better but without realising it, I was making things worse. I know this now I just wish back then I would have had more help or a site like this to come to for support! I was only 12 when it started and it took a while to even realise what was wrong. Now, I'm back where I started and wondering where to go, what to do first, whether I'm doing the right thing. I feel so pressured, I just want to get my life back because I feel like times running out and I'm missing out on what is suppost to be the best time of my life :( What methods did you use to get out of that stuck place?
jayjoe18; as regards how I got out of my stuck place, I think the first things I did were (as I have heard others describe here) like baby steps. Although I was still going out to work, I had become very insular. So I was making efforts to connect with people more, not to hide from them.
I'll never forget walking home from work one night and there was this little girl playing outside her house. I smiled to her and she said hello, so I said hello back. Such a simple thing to share with a little girl who I didn't even know. But I realised it was important to make the effort with things like that.
Also I began standing up to people. That was pretty darned scary but in time I got much better at it. I still struggle with that but I am so much better than say a decade ago.
I became more self-confident as well because again I made myself socialise. The first few times I felt terribly self-conscious. I wanted to run away, to cry or hide (or both!). But each time I managed to do something socially, it got that little bit better.
Well, I'd best be off to bed now ... I need my beauty sleep! But I will try to think of more examples. In the end, it is a case if gradually re engaging with life. I did have the backing of my therapist but ultimately I was the one doing these things. I came to realise that in the end.
When I read posts from people such as yourself I really want to help. I can relate to what it feels like. So don't forgt, just simple, things really. Like said before they build up into the big things.
Also, try to recognise when you do achieve something good, it might be really simple like making the effort to do a chore. Or even to ignore a negative thought. You can always let me know how you do.
Byeeeeee for now.
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