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hi ive just read a link from some one put on here called a nothing works a letter to myself and wonderd if any one else has tried his method as i would like to try it but not sure if i should ask my gp first weather i should try it just in case it makes me worse so just thought id ask on here for other opinions
Jamesflames
28-07-13, 12:34
I have written one of those letters to myself and found it deeply calming. I don't think there is any particular hazard in trying it yourself. A diary can be handy too for much the same sort of reason. When we are anxious our brains tend to race and jump about from one awful thought to the next, but when you write stuff down it sort of forces you to slow your thoughts to a writing pace.
Even if you don't actually put it to the test yourself, it's a really good read and I think most of us could learn a thing or 2 from it. In case anyone hasn't seen it, the link is:
http://nothingworks.weebly.com/
Pip
hi pipkin i just thought id give it a go and do wat he did.to put away all the momentos of anxiety i have and pretend that im ok and not have a disorder as i feel ive nothing loose really as like he said we hold the key and i think he makes so much sence of it and i might just learn from it
Hi. I have read nothing works and it makes total sense to me. It's fairly hard to put into practice cos the whole seeking reassurance and reading up about anxiety is damn hard to resist at times. I am fairly certain that if I could stop myself reading and researching I'd be 10x better by now. I understand totally how to get better but anxiety tricks me still. One of these days I'm just going to take the plunge and do exactly as chris says. Chris's letter is by far the best thing I have read and I have read a lot! Do it, :)there is no way it will make u worse. All the best
cymraig_chris
16-08-13, 22:00
Hi Sands,
Here is my viewpoint.
The seeking of reassurance can be lessened if we understand what anxiety is.
Anxiety only arises from a lack of understanding.
Anxiety as a thing does not exist, it is us battling against a non existent adversary.
Anxiety is a scenario borne from incorrect conclusion.
It is our fight flight response and nothing more. It is a small part of us.
We are fighting when we need not to.
Acceptance and non reaction are the natural children of understanding.
We don't accept anxiety as an adversary.
We accept that we are fighting nothing, that there is no adversary.
We further accept that there is not even a battle within which to fight.
There never has been a battle.
We are well.
We are not physically ill.
We are not mentally ill.
We don't try to make anxiety unimportant.
We understand that it is unimportant.
We are fighting fear, but even fear is a non existent battle.
If we undress fear we also conclude that it does not exist as a thing.
Fear is the aggregation of benign sensations, it is a collection of benign stuff, it is not a thing in its own right. It is just the name given to a group of things. Fear is just a word and nothing more.
When we accept this we know the sensations of fear are unimportant. And are happy to do nothing about them.
We no longer fear fear.
The fight flight is switched off.
When we do this, we stop fighting to win a battle that never existed.
We stop adding fuel.
The fight flight response runs out of fuel.
We smile.
We know.
We understand.
That is how I see things.
Hi chris. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I can't believe ur talking to me! Lol. I know ur right. When I get fear flashes I seem to forget all words of wisdom. I think when I started getting panics last year I felt so so strange even when I wasn't panicking that I totally felt like there was something wrong with me. I guess it just takes time to prove to myself that there isn't. Thanks again chris.
cymraig_chris
16-08-13, 23:10
There was a great section in a Claire Weekes audio, she was stating that one of her patients was saying exactly that. I.e "I forget in the moment what you tell me Dr Weekes" .. To which Dr Weekes answered, "I don't need you to remember everything ... I just want you to remember two words ... Loosen and accept."
The way i understand this is ... relax your body and submit to anxiety, let it do its stuff ... Let it win. Anxiety is part of you if you let anxiety win you actually let yourself win.
My letter is a mere anecdote, hiding away in cyberspace, I have no credentials or claims.
Dr Weekes on the other hand is the essence of anxiety understanding and removal.
Gotagetthroughthis
16-08-13, 23:14
Is that Chris who actually wrote Nothing works?
I cannot thank you enough. Your page has helped me so much and I pass on the link to your page to anyone and everyone I think it may help.
If only I could stick to your advice given in the letter. I was doing so much better from using your techniques until my CBT therapy finally came through from the NHS. 4 CBT sessions down the line and I feel like I am back to square 1 with non stop anxiety and panic every day.
My plan is to stick out the CBT as I don't feel I should pack it in after waiting months on a waiting list for it. But as soon as I have done my last session I will have another read of nothingworks and start employing your techniques and go back to living my life as normal as possible in the hope I do one day recover from this and move on with my life.
Thank you again
I wish I could carry you around with me :) ok I shall loosen and accept, that's not too hard to remember. Thanks once more
cymraig_chris
16-08-13, 23:43
Hi,
I did write that letter.
Here are my thoughts.
It's ok to have non stop anxiety every day, I used to have it constantly, I hated it, but I learned from it, then I stopped hating it. It's normal. The body is doing what its supposed to be doing. When we fight anxiety, we naturally exhibit the sensations of the fight/flight response. It's only natural.
When we fight (ie when we have anxiety) we are at our most safe, we are protected by a wonderful list of defensive systems.
When we loosen up we stop fuelling the response, we let anxiety do what it does to the best of our ability, and anxiety diminishes.
The more we loosen, the better we get at loosening up, and the more we start to realise its complete unimportance.
When we flee, we tell the fight flight response it is needed, it keeps switched on
When we don't flee and we do loosen up we tell the flight flight that it is not needed and it switches off.
We are less likely to flee when we understand it.
Anxiety is limited.
It's magnitude is limited and its initiation parameters are limited.
Anxiety only learns when it is switched on.
So any anxiety is an opportunity to practice accepting it.
Accepting it as perfectly safe.
Accepting that it is trying to help us.
Accepting that there is no danger.
Accepting that we don't need to fight a non existent battle against a non existent adversary.
Accepting that anxiety is only us fighting against nothing whatsoever.
Chris,
I found your post and your letter very helpful. Thank you.
I am a great fan of Claire Weeks who got me through my first spell of anxiety many, many years ago. It is noticeable that all the other therapies do not conflict with any of her methods. Although more up to date therapies may have varying ways of getting there, acceptance is always the main theme.
Having had many years of relief, I find myself caught back in the struggle after having retired from work. It began this time with a few worries and pressures but with so little distractions, like work, it has been difficult to get out of my own head this time.
As a result, I did for the first time try antidepressants to assist recovery. I have been struggling a fair bit with their side effects but am trying to stick with it and give them a chance. My anxiety has alway manifested itself mainly as stomach discomfort and sods law determined that this would be the main side effect for me, which adds to the mix. I know I will still have to deal with my anxiety at the same time.
I just wondered if you have any thoughts on anxiety when in my situation. I was fine for the first 18 months of retirement, with outside interests and hobbies, but there is a loss of structure to your day and a lot of free time.
I know a lot of people reading this may think, "I wish I was retired and no longer have the pressures of facing work" but I have to say that anxiety comes whatever your circumstances, and dealing with it when you have reduced distractions and even less reason for feeling it is just as difficult. I find I have less opportunity to socialise, and I lose interest in my hobbies etc when I am having a bad day.
I have been recently reading about ACT ( Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) which is still all about allowing yourself to think and a feel everything without judgment or reaction.
Phil
cymraig_chris
18-08-13, 11:43
It seems you are wishing anxiety away. Just because you are retired does not mean that you don't have the distraction to remove anxiety. You don't need distraction to move anxiety. You don't need anything to remove anxiety because you don't need to remove it. You never did. You just need to accept and allow these protection feelings and thoughts to be there.
Observe and accept, observe and allow, face it and float with it.
The moments we stop struggling, are the moments we practice accepting it. The more we practice ... The better we get.
Take it with you.
Accept when you rest, accept it when you are busy, don't keep busy to push anxiety away, keep busy to take it with you wherever you go.
Fill your day, find fun things to do.
When we are sensitised we amplify the bad feelings, this also means we amplify the good feelings.
Accept it when we go shopping, accept it when we sit down, accept it when we do the dishes, accept it when we go to the cinema.
Don't fight in battle that does not exist.
There is no struggle.
Anxiety is safe.
Rest at night.
Loosen and accept.
Chris,
You are absolutely right... I am wishing it away. I do understand what you are saying. There is no way to like this, or want this... But my efforts to rid myself of it are wasted efforts. I am aware that this is indeed taking part in the struggle, which leads to more suffering and despair. I just find it so difficult to believe that I am going to be fine when taking the feelings with me although I don't avoid anything and the anticipation is usually unfounded when I actually do things. It just never sinks in that there is no risk involved.
I know that these feelings are just feelings and these thoughts are harmless bluffs, but it is so easy to get hooked by them and start to worry and panic.
I did go ahead with a family day out today, even though I felt sick. Once I arrived and started chatting the day got a little easier. Not entirely comfortable but as you say, nothing bad happened. How many times have I experienced this.... Hundreds! And I still believe my silly thoughts and predictions.... One day soon it will sink in.
Thanks for replying.
Phil
cymraig_chris
18-08-13, 17:27
I experienced something very similar to this. I was convinced I had do do something ... Anything ... In order to get myself out of anxiety.
I never had to get myself out of anything, because I was never in anything.
The only thing I was in was a belief that I had to get myself out ... Out of anxiety.
This belief was the cause of all my attempts to solve the issue, to readdress the balance to escape the jailer.
I never had to, the was no issue, there was no imbalance, there was no jailer.
When I accepted, what was I accepting? I was accepting my body purging itself of adrenaline, using it all up, when the body uses it up we get the sensations associated with the fight flight response.
If I just observed the sensations without reaction, they just burned themselves out, I no longer added any fuel to the fire.
Yes it takes a few times, but not as many as you would think if you do it willingly.
The body is remarkable at healing itself as long as we give it the space and the time to do so.
Every sensation is anxiety burning itself out, if we accept this, without recoil, we emerge into the sunlight.
Anxiety was only a false belief of entrapment.
I practiced really accepting the sensations, and that helped a lot.
I then consolidated my knowledge of acceptance by trusting my own body ... Trusting that it was doing exactly what it was supposed to be doing.
I never had to engage in a battle with anxiety to prove it was benign, I just had to realise that there never was a battle in the first place, there is not a battle now, and the never will be a battle.
I was ok all along.
Does this make sense?
If it doesn't make sense immediately then it will soon. This is what I believe Dr Weekes used to refer to when she talked about recovery from deep understanding.
When we know there is no battle .. That there never was we are able to remember us recoiling from panic/anxiety at the last 1 percent.
There is no point going through 99 percent and recoiling at the last 1 percent, this is possibly the essence of GAD.
Once we travel THROUGH panic and anxiety we see the clarity of the green fields of relaxation on the other side.
We stay in the moment WITH panic/anxiety carrying on doing whatever we were doing and make sure that panic/anxiety leaves before we do.
We do this not with gritted teeth but will a loosening of allowance.
This is the last 1 percent.
This takes practice.
We get setbacks, but setbacks come before big recoveries.
We practice, practice, practice.
I did this whilst being busy at times, but other days I did it whilst sitting down just watching telly.
Deep understanding comes not from reading words on a page but by direct experience of seeing the panic through until it softens.
We see it though willingly. It's hard at first but gets much easier rather fast.
By accepting we are stepping out of the way and letting the body cure itself.
Do I still get anxiety? no. Do I still get the odd symptoms of the fight flight response, yes, because I do little exercise, I smoke, I drink strong coffee, I have two loud offspring and a demanding job.
Do I care about these sensations. Not i the slightest, they are only mild, the same as anyone else who is so called normal.. When I get them I know deeply that it is my body removing the built up adrenaline. What does this mean, it means I am very efficient at removing adrenaline, and so is anyone who gets a panic attack. I can't say I get panic attacks any more, not that it would bother me if I ever got an adrenaline surge.
It stands to reason if I got off my backside and started cycling etc and eating healthy them I would not build up this adrenaline. But with my understanding, I don't actually care about these sensations. Because as stated, I am simply removing the excess stress.
Chris,
My first taste of anxiety was over 40 years ago, and I do remember being told by my GP not to be so stupid!
Claire Weekes appeared on midday TV and was an absolute life saver. I bought her books and tapes and although it often took months, I did recover. I have not had any real setbacks for over 8 years... I suppose this one caught me off guard and I was so determined not to become entrapped again. That I did exactly that.
The stomach is so closely related to the mind in most cases and this is especially true for me. Nausea ( although I am never actually sick) is fairly constant until late afternoon and even when I feel relatively relaxed. It is definitely anxiety, best fitting in with GAD. It is this feeling in my stomach that I seem to struggle with. Today for example, I spent the day with my children and grandchildren and tried to focus on the present and allow my stomach to be as it is. It sort of worked, in as much as I didn't get too anxious, but it kept reminding me of how I felt. I found I had to keep recognising that my mind had wandered back to my stomach discomfort and to revert back to the present. This seemed like a battle itself.
I definitely know what you are getting at, but sometimes still find myself confused when my mind keeps wanting to get back to the anxiety.
I suppose it is about more practice until the process becomes more natural.
I think I am still at the stage where I still care too much about how I feel.
I also have to mention that I started taking SSRIs for the first time ever over 6 weeks ago and the side effects are confusing the issue... I will be seeing the GP tomorrow to discuss whether I need to come off of them.
Thanks again,
Phil
Can't your posts be made a sticky??? Your wise words need to be heard! I'm taking it in slowly.
cymraig_chris
18-08-13, 18:08
If your mind wanders back to anxiety them accept this.
It's normal.
It's ok to think of anxiety a millions times a day. Don't push the thoughts away, let them be there.
---------- Post added at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:04 ----------
Can't your posts be made a sticky??? Your wise words need to be heard! I'm taking it in slowly.
I'm no wiser or cleverer than anyone else on this site. I'm just muddling through the magnificence of life's ups and downs like anyone else.
Nothing in my words can't be found in Dr Weekes' work. Except she is a hundred times better, more caring, more confident and has all the professional credentials and personal experience of helping others one-to-one.
I'm am much too wordy and tend to like the sound of my own voice too much, I waffle on far to much.
Additional, Dr Weekes summarised with two words, loosen and accept, I spent 30 thousand words saying the same thing!
Just remember what she said .... "Indeed, I have never seen this method not work". Acceptance is the answer.
It is simple but not easy.
I believe I have read all of Claire Weekes books and I also try to keep up with what you have got to say. She is no longer around unfortunately and I don't hear her get mentioned all that much here. You are wise Chris, at least where anxiety is concerned :). Understanding is what will get me out of this merrygoround. Positive posts are always good
Well I think the message is clear...
But more importantly it is very uncomplicated.
Just be prepared to allow it all... Experience everything without resistance. Let it all go.
And remember, it is a natural function of the body, and we can carry on as normal whatever we are feeling.
I will read this again tomorrow morning when I am sure I will need reminding.
Thanks again..
Phil
cymraig_chris
18-08-13, 18:54
Exactly Phil, when you offer no resistance you watch as the adrenaline rises and then falls after it has been used up. When we don't flee during this time and see it all though, the fight flight response learns by demonstration that is is not needed. The fight flight response only learns when it is switched on.
Loosen and accept.
hi chris I read your script and have for a week now ive been doing wat u did and just wonderd how long was it before u noticed a change and did u have set backs in the prosess as along the way
I started reading this last night, got most of the way through it then fell asleep (I was very tired) but it really does make sense. Im going to read it every day and try to digest the contents slowly over time. During anxiety its so difficult to rationalise what is actually happening, but I hope this is something that can help. Thanks for posting the link, and thanks for writing it in the first place Chris, it really does make sense, just need to find the way of allowing our minds to accept that it is sense, and maybe slowly we can all benefit from it and start to get better.
cymraig_chris
25-08-13, 17:31
Setbacks are normal.
I noticed a difference in 2 days.
I made a decision that I would no longer start or complete any rituals, my anxiety went up for quite a few hours as a result, my other decision was that I needed absolutely nothing to cope, I would just allow myself to feel anxious and not react.
It helps to do something fun and very engaging at first, chatting with friends etc, going out etc.
The brain learns very fast.
That's what I did anyway.
Wow, how profound and so true. So many of us have lived in this cycle of fear for such a long time, we react automatically to the surge of adrenaline without really knowing we are doing it. Acceptance is the key.....
Chris, you have such an eloquent way with words. When I read Dr Weakes's books I often wish she were alive today. But after reading your posts I have found my new Dr Weakes - YOU! :)
It's not about the not remembering of anxiety, it's about it not mattering. And when not mattering occurs, the not remembering eventually follows.
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