Court tomorrow and terrified [Archive]

shotokansho

31-07-13, 23:09

I'm so scared guys. I have to go to court tomorrow morning for not paying council tax. I had the summons through about 3 weeks ago and had every intention of discussing it with my care coordinator, but with everything that's going on in my life at the moment it totally slipped my mind. I was just coming to bed and it popped into my head, it's tomorrow and it's a t 9.45am so it's just not possible to get any of my care proffesionals to come with me, I just don't know what to do.
I was up in court last month for not having a TV liscence, I didn't show for that but they just sentenced me in my abscence and fined me through the post, but this is different, much more serious because it's council tax. I don't ever discuss my finances with anyone, so no one knows about this, it's been a great struggle to hide it, and I've just cried and cried over it.
What will happen if I don't go? Will I get arrested? I simply can't go without someone fighting my corner as I will say all the wrong things or say nothing at all. Knowing me and my illness I will clam up and cry in front of everyone. I have emotionally unstable personality disorder so things like this really effect me.
I'm so anxious and scared, if I don't go and I get arrested my mother will find out and she doesn't know what kind of trouble I am in. She would be so dissapointed. Even if I told her and she came with me she wouldn't be the same as my support worker because they obviously have more clout. Do you think if I phoned the courts in the morning they would stop any kind of warrants to arrest me? I simply cannot go without my mental health support worker.
Don't know what to do guys :weep:

Speranza

31-07-13, 23:22

Have you contacted your MH worker yet?
:hugs:I know this is really, really scary but it is not going to kill you and things can be sorted. But you need to phone someone.

shotokansho

31-07-13, 23:26

No I can't call them now until tomorrow. It's too late at the this time. I will call her in the morning.

Speranza

31-07-13, 23:29

Yes, do that. Remember for another time, if we leave it too long to face things it can get more scary and panicky. Please don't worry, you will not be the first person in this situation. Make sure to post tomorrow night so I'm not left worrying too long! ;) XXX

shotokansho

31-07-13, 23:37

I can't help it. I don't like people I don't know coming to the house and I very rarely open post because I am so frightened of what I am going to find or who I'm going to encounter. I know it's not going to kill me but it doesn't lessen the anxiety.
I know I'm just going to get bullied into a corner and not be able to speak up. I mean how am I supposed to explain why I haven't paid it? I wouldn't mind but it wasn't even a large amount at first but then it got higher and higher. It's because I never paid council tax before and then I suddenly had to start paying it. Such a stupid stupid thing.

shakey1961

01-08-13, 00:08

Hi. All I can suggest is that you ask to speak to a court solicitor. You are entitled by rights to be represented in court. That can be your back-up plan.

But first you MUST CALL your MH worker first thing in the morning as a matter of urgency. Do they have an answerphone you could call now? If so call it and leave a message asking them to call you first thing as a matter of urgency as soon as they hear the message. Soon as they're open though call them. They may not be able to send your MH worker, but they could send someone.

Do you have a printer attached to your computer? If so while you're sat down at this moment, try and write something out and explain your mental health problems, how you find it difficult to cope, what your life is like and you find it difficult to cope with everyday things. You have not had to worry about council tax before and since the benefit changes have taken place it's been too much too cope with and everything has got into a mess. Explain that you wrote the letter because you are very frightened and would not be able to speak up for yourself under pressure. Explain that you are sorry the council tax has not been paid and that if they will give you time you will be willing to comply with a repayment plan.

If you type that up now, you will not be under pressure when in the court in the morning and you can ask for it to be given to the court clerk for the magistrates to read.

As long as you are willing to sort the problem out the courts will look kindly on you. You will NOT be put into jail tomorrow!!!

I know you will be frightened, but you must go as it shows willingness on your part. If you don't then more problems might start. I know that sounds very scary and it's probably not what you want to hear but it's always best to know the truth.

It's not going to be a comfortable experience, but you have to do it. But do try and write something down tonight - even if you can't sleep which I doubt you'll be able to do, so use the time wisely.

When this is sorted, you must get help to keep your finances in order and open envelopes and start letting people come to visit you. In the long run sorting it out before it goes to another level like tomorrow is always preferable.

I wish you all the best tomorrow and come back and tell us how it went.

God Bless

---------- Post added at 00:08 ---------- Previous post was at 00:01 ----------

When this is sorted, you MUST get help with your finances and start talking to people. They are there to help. You will find it a HUGE weight off your shoulders if you get help.

I always like to turn these things around. If you came across a person who had problems and couldn't talk about things, wouldn't you want to help them? We have to learn to accept that kind people want to help us, that's why they take on these jobs because they enjoy what they do.

Get the help you need and TALK!!!!!

shotokansho

01-08-13, 00:10

Thank you Shakey. I will ring them first thing. It's a good idea to write something down, I never thought of that. I am not going to get much sleep tonight as my mind won't shut down, so I can do that.
I don't know what I'm going to do with my little boy though. My mother is on a rota with her sister to look after my sick Nana so she isn't available. I suppose I could ask my teenager to mind him (he's 16).
I'm just trying to take deep breaths and relax. This is horrible. Thanks for the advice I will follow it.

shakey1961

01-08-13, 00:16

Glad you've read my post. Promise me you will go tomorrow? Use psychology also. How old is your little boy? If you can't get someone to look after him, take him with you. Show that you don't have anyone to help and that you have a child to look after and life is very difficult and the only reason the council tax hasn't been paid is due to pressure at home, mental health problems and it was through forgetfulness rather than wilfully not wishing to pay it, that it has remained unpaid.

They'll look at you and take pity on you.

All psychology like the football mangers use to have a go at the opposing team before a match.

I'm going to send you another private message

Speranza

01-08-13, 08:55

Good advice Shakey. Thinking of you Sweetheart, gird your loins. x

shakey1961

01-08-13, 12:23

I'm getting impatient for some news. Hope it's gone OK

gypcyg

01-08-13, 13:32

Shoto try this site - http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/

Join and post your queries in the forum area. It gives great advice on how to reduce debts as well.

My other advice would be to stop paying your TV licence, details here - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1487193&page=1

Did you know that there is no such thing as a TV detector van? You can only be prosecuted if you admit that you are watching TV without a licence. DON'T EVER OPEN YOUR FRONT DOOR WITHOUT FINDING OUT WHO IS ON THE OTHER SIDE! I have never bought a Tv licence and I'm 44 now. I've never been prosecuted and I never will be either. Look on youtube to see how you should handle the TV licence people as they knock on your door - You'll save over £10 a month.

Finally don't ever be scared of being in debt - If you owe less than £500 then the people you owe money too will follow 3 steps:

1) A mildly threatening letter telling you to pay now or court proceedings will occur and ergo your debt will increase.
2) (if you ignore step 1) A much more threatening letter saying that you now owe much more and that if you don't pay then steps will be taken to recover the money owed i.e. baliffs. This letter will be sent 2 or 3 times if you still ignore them.
3) (if step 1 and 2 have been ignored) A new letter will arrive, this will be much more reasonable and will offer you the chance to pay just your original debt.

If you ignore 3 then step all three steps start again.

It costs them a lot of money to take court proceedings and to hire baliffs so the debt has to be worth recovering. If you do intend to pay it make them an offer of say £15 per month depending on your circumstances. Also remember that thousands of people are refusing/unwilling/unable to pay the Council tax so there is a huge backlog going through the system that will literally take hundreds of years to clear.

Good luck!

shakey1961

01-08-13, 13:48

The lady has problems dealing with things, and while I understand you want to help, I don't think it's really wise to be telling her to stop paying her TV licence. You might be lucky having not paid yours, but I'm sure she would not want the worry of unannounced visits, whether or not they have any rights of entry. If prosecuted a person is liable to a fine of £1,000, just under 10 times more than the licence fee itself. Pay the £142.50 and have peace of mind and pay in instalments.

She needs practical help to get on her feet and sort things.

Sorry we're talking about you Shoto as if you're not there, but I'm trying to fight your corner.

gypcyg

01-08-13, 14:46

Lots of people have stopped paying the Tv licence (especially after the Jimmy Savile cover-up) - and the link I gave is to a reputable site. If you want to pay a tax for watching TV thats up to you but there are people who don't want to pay it or can't afford to pay. I don't see a problem in letting people know that there are legal ways not to pay - as well as the other less legal ways.

I have as much right to post replies on here as you and I find your attitude a little worrying. People who post here often have little financial support and if there is a way that they can reduce their outgoings then they should be investigated. Shoto might look at the links I posted and think that it is not for her but at least she has the choice!

nomorepanic

01-08-13, 15:19

The link was from 2009 and I did read about 3 pages before I got bored but no-one seems to have actually tried it out. I am pretty sure that 4 years on they would have got wise to this and found a way round it.

I would not want to risk it to be honest.

It is one of those things we just pay for and accept it on the whole.

I think people would spend a lot of time worrying about every knock on the door, every phone call or every official looking letter in the post. Is that worth it for £100? I personally don't think so.

shakey1961

01-08-13, 15:24

I don't think I said in my original reply to you that you were not allowed to post. You have a much right to post on here as everyone else. If Shoto wants to look at those links you posted then who am I to stop her.

I was just stating my personal opinion that I thought it was possibly wrong. And when you read this it is written with no nasty tone implied.

I am not the authorities and neither would I go to the authorities about it, but I know I wouldn't want to do something that could cause me more stress that I'm already under. Anything for a quiet life.

meche

01-08-13, 15:40

I agree. I don't like paying it but it's one of those things that is just accepted. I pay mine quarterly by direct debit and I'm certainly not going to draw attention to myself by suddenly stopping the payment..... but then I'm a bit OCD when it comes to finance. Each month I spreadsheet all my outgoings and bills are paid on payday. What's left is mine. No stress, no worries.... a quiet life!! xx

gypcyg

01-08-13, 16:16

Here are some up to date links then - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/9668776/Heres-an-answer-to-the-BBC-licence-fee-dont-pay-it.html (read the comments at the bottom especially)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2343323/400-000-households-avoid-paying-TV-licence-watching-BBC-programmes-iPlayer.html (again the comments are good)

The link that was 3 years old was only updated 2 weeks ago (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/tv-licence ) but the advice was still fully legal. (should you really post on a subject if you don't read all the information because your attention span is so small?)

Video to enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfHRhXW1hno - This shows you that your best defence is a video camera.

Everyone should get themselves acquainted with the law - remember the Tv licencing people who turn up at your door have no right of entry! I left home when I was 17, that's 27 years without paying for a TV licence. I must've saved over £2000 and I'm damn proud I have. The BBC is not impartial (read Flat earth News by Nick davies http://www.flatearthnews.net/ ) and it could easily be funded by other means - Did you know that Channel 4 is owned by us too?

Don't be cowed into paying an unfair tax - know your rights and save money. Or simply shut up and pay up, it's your choice :)

nomorepanic

01-08-13, 16:35

shotokansho

01-08-13, 17:13

Hello people.

Can I just correct things here. The court hearing today was for unpaid council tax NOT TV liscence. I had a court hearing for TV liscence last month. To be perfectly honest that was the 3rd time I have been caught, I will not be making the same mistake again, you have just been lucky so far. Weather they have a tv detector van or not they obviously have some way of detecting weather or not you have a liscence.

So back to today. I'm ashamed to say that I didn't go. Last night I didn't get to sleep until 4am, as I was crying all night. The crazy thing was that I wasn't crying over the court hearing but about something completely different. I read over my old posts because I needed to print some off for a psychiatrist. I came across an old post I made which hasn't been resolved and still hurts me a lot, so it set me off.
I called my MH worker this morning and she phoned the courts for me. She explained everything and told them I don't have an issue with paying it but we would need to rearrange as she is on annual leave for 2 weeks now. I'm just waiting now for something to come through the post, I just hope I have the courage to open my letters, what a strange thing it is...I mean they are not going to bite me are they!

I'm not in a huge amount of debt, I do have some things that I pay regulary but usually I can just get by. We don't have much left at the end but we have what we need. It's just that this council tax has come along and bit me on the bum. I have always had full council tax paid for me but with all the changes the government have been making it was landed on me, it's not a lot granted but it just sent me into panic mode and didn't really know how to deal with it.

Thank you for all the constructive advice and support.

Kerry xx

venusbluejeans

01-08-13, 17:30

The link that was 3 years old was only updated 2 weeks ago (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/tv-licence ) but the advice was still fully legal. (should you really post on a subject if you don't read all the information because your attention span is so small?)

Very much uncalled for gypcyg :lac:

and just to say that the last post on that thread is back on the 15th May so 2 1/2 months ago....... so not 2 weeks.

Shoto, I hope you get everything sorted, money problems are a huge worry to a lot of people let alone for people who have anx to worry about too. x

Pipkin

01-08-13, 17:43

Kerry - it must be an awful situation but you clearly want to pay and I'm sure the courts will allow arrangements for you to be able to pay off the debt in a way that's affordable to you. Try to put it behind you and get advice on any other debts you have - I know the Citizen's Advice Bureau are excellent for this. Good luck.

Finally don't ever be scared of being in debt - If you owe less than £500 then the people you owe money too will follow 3 steps:

1) A mildly threatening letter telling you to pay now or court proceedings will occur and ergo your debt will increase.
2) (if you ignore step 1) A much more threatening letter saying that you now owe much more and that if you don't pay then steps will be taken to recover the money owed i.e. baliffs. This letter will be sent 2 or 3 times if you still ignore them.
3) (if step 1 and 2 have been ignored) A new letter will arrive, this will be much more reasonable and will offer you the chance to pay just your original debt.

If you ignore 3 then step all three steps start again.

It costs them a lot of money to take court proceedings and to hire baliffs so the debt has to be worth recovering. If you do intend to pay it make them an offer of say £15 per month depending on your circumstances. Also remember that thousands of people are refusing/unwilling/unable to pay the Council tax so there is a huge backlog going through the system that will literally take hundreds of years to clear.

Good luck!

I find this particularly poor advice, especially when receiving threatening letters would make the average person anxious, let alone an anxiety sufferer. On top of that, people should be encouraged to manage their debt responsibly, not ignore it. Also small businesses depend on the payments of money owed to them to make ends meet - companies go out of business because of this.

As for the TV licence issue, for every non-payer and the money it costs to take proceedings against them, money is ultimately added to everyone's licence. In other words, you're enjoying free tv and we're paying for it.

Honesty is always the best policy, in my opinion.

Pip

gypcyg

01-08-13, 18:03

Kerry if you're an anxious person then you do what you feel is right - I hope it works out for you.

To the others: I'd answer you but I got bored after reading a couple of sentences of your posts so missed what you said :)

Another good site for those considering not paying the TV tax http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/index.php?topic=6255.0

venusbluejeans

01-08-13, 18:05

To the others: I'd answer you but I got bored after reading a couple of sentences of your posts so missed what you said :)

Thats ok, because I only wrote a couple of sentences anyway :)

and please stop being rude, there was no need for it whatsoever.... if you have something to say to someone then I am sure you can do it without being sarcastic and rude as you seem to be a knowledgeable person, you will find that people respond to you much better if you do.

nomorepanic

01-08-13, 18:18

I only wrote one word lol

Shoto - sorry you couldn't make it today and I hope you get things sorted out soon

mikejames

01-08-13, 18:22

HI KERRY

Just read your post my love and my heart goes out to you

This may sound a bit harsh and I don't intend that my love but you can't let things build up like this because the more you bury your head in the sand the worse it becomes

I am an accountant and I know how easy it is to push things under the carpet but it was still on your mind I bet

Now listen talk to citizens advice who won't judge or think anything worse of you but please darling talk to someone in future - talk to me if you want pm me is fine I will help if I can but sometimes you just HAVE to do what you don't want

As a panic sufferer for 20 years I know it is hard but so was today ......???

Please no one bash me was only trying to help

Lots of love and support

Mikey

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Pipkin

01-08-13, 18:30

Pipkin

01-08-13, 18:32

To the others: I'd answer you but I got bored after reading a couple of sentences of your posts so missed what you said :)

That just about sums it up and is exactly how to bury your head in the sand and end up in trouble. Not something I would expect from someone in your profession.

Pip

Magic

01-08-13, 18:59

Blimey, Does that mean that we can all get away from paying our TV licence?
Don't think so!!!!
Good Luck to you Kerry.
You are a very nice, kind and thoughtful man Mike James

mikejames

01-08-13, 19:33

Thank you magic ...........I don't think I am but I understand the hell we live and how hard it is and I am not judgemental and never will be am just someone who tries his best tries to help others and expect to be treated the same way but thank you that meant a lot to me

But this thread is not about me so how's Kerry doing anyone know ?????

Mikey

xxxxxxxx

gypcyg

01-08-13, 19:52

Magic it does indeed - all you need to do is find out the current laws. The TV licencing people have no right to be on your property and have no right to enter your home. The TV licence door collectors are normal people without any special power, they get a flat wage and a £20 bonus for each licence that people buy. The detector vans (what a joke) do not exist and the only thing that can be used in court is your acceptance that you are watching live Tv without a licence. To get you to admit to this they use intimidation and threats of prosecution - the only people they prosecute are the ones who make a stand against the TV licence (thus admitting they watch TV without one) or the people who allow the door collectors into their premises. Look at the video's on youtube - they threaten that they will get the Police involved - so what!! They still don't have the right to enter your property. I've been visited 4 times by the TV licence collectors and I admit that the first time I was nervous when I told them to Feckoff and then slammed the door in their face. The last 3 times I've really enjoyed it. They know I've got no licence and they send me letters every few months which I place in my filing system (the bin). The money I save I spend on a weekend away and call it my TV holiday :)

Those that cry that I'm breaking the law or that your Licence costs more because of the non-payers then please continue to moan cos that makes me laugh the loudest! Again I refer you to Flat Earth News as a starting point in your quest to become informed.

Pipkin please re-read my post. I was stating that Kerry should not feel anxious as many people are in exactly the same boat. I also pointed out how the council will go about threatening her so that she pays up the money she owes. That is not advice! I bit my tongue when writing that post so that I kept my advice to myself - I'm sure you can imagine what my advice would be anyway :) Think along the lines of single mothers and the poorest people in society being punished for the greed of the bankers and other large corporations - You say pay up - I say kiss my ****!

Semantics - but Venus the site was updated 2 weeks ago (July 17th 2013) Tell me how and I'll post a screeshot to prove it. (I like your hat btw).

Finally my sarcasm was a response to Nicola brushing me off:
("The link was from 2009 and I did read about 3 pages before I got bored but no-one seems to have actually tried it out. I am pretty sure that 4 years on they would have got wise to this and found a way round it.")

Currently 400.000 homes (that's a conservative estimate) no longer pay for a TV licence. 4 years later the law is still the same.

Maybe you didn't mean to brush me off but I'm a person who finds the best form of defence is attack - my apologies if I misunderstood.

venusbluejeans

01-08-13, 20:11

I am not sure she was brushing you off at all. it was just a case of her stating her her opinion on the matter just like you were doing.

The link you posted to the money saving expert site as I was saying was answered on the 15th May which is the link that I assume Nic was talking about too.....not the site....which site did you mean?, that may have been where the confusion was.

Thank you for answering sensibly much appreciated.

ps. Moooooooooooo :)

nomorepanic

01-08-13, 20:20

I wasn't brushing you off just stating a fact that the link was old and no-one on the first 3 pages had tried it so could not say it was a success. In fact most replies were in support of getting a TV licence.

I, for one am not cancelling mine now and taking my chances.

mikejames

01-08-13, 20:30

well am not sure am comfortable with this TV thing cos as far as I am concerned the law of the land is the law whether we like it or not ..............call me crazy (many have) but personally would like to sleep at night but heigh ho ...............

Ask my partner in crime AKA KITTIKAT who leads me astray on a daily basis ..............who is first in line for a job at my new empire (ha ha for now but watch me brothers ) she will tell you the same and it's not rocket science just common sense

Kerry I hope you are ok angel let us know how you are sweetpea and stop worrying ............everything can be fixed with a bit of time and understanding

Mikey

xxxxxxxx

shotokansho

01-08-13, 20:40

I'm not too good...But I guess that's another thread. At the moment I think the court hearing today and council tax is just lingering and causing more stress to the lingering issue I have...Not sure if I'm allowed to post about it, but so need to talk about it.

I don't mean to be rude but suggesting that I don't pay my bills is ludicrous and not vwry helpful, but that's ok I know what's constructive advice and what isn't.

Thanks again for your kind support...I have been here a long time and have always received lot's of good and thoughtful support xx

kittikat

01-08-13, 20:45

Kerry sweetheart,

This thread is about your council tax court date today....like Mikey says above and in his previous post here, my heart goes out to you and I really feel for you. There are many here who will identify with your sheer terror at the thought of going through this, especially with anxiety.

mikejames is one of the kindest, most supportive and approachable (and very witty!!!) people I have met on here and he has helped me so much even though he has been through the mill himself. Listen to his advice and forget the TV license debate....we all have to make the effort to pay our bills and god only knows it is not easy in the current economic climate.

I would say the same, CAB urgently to get the help and support you so urgently need. There is no shame in admitting you need help hun.

Please let us all know how you are. Kitti :hugs: xx

shotokansho

02-08-13, 05:27

Oh don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying anything against Mike, far from it. I had a few beers tonight and I wish I hadn't, I ended up crying. I then was awake from 4am. It's 5.30am, hardly any point in trying to sleep again.
My mum knows there is something wrong with me, she keeps asking me if I'm alright and that my persona is flat. I hope this depression lifts soon, it's so hard to pretend and keep functioning when things are not right in your head.

Speranza

02-08-13, 05:54

Kerry, can I just point out that you did one thing VERY right, and that was, you rang your Mental Health worker. And that has helped to begin to put everything right - so well done. I am sure that was not easy either.

I don't know (or have missed - Prozac head!) your age but my daughters are independent women in their twenties - and I can tell you as a mum that I love them and would really want them to let me know if they were feeling as you are. Your mum may be different. But don't make the mistake of thinking you are saving her feelings, she will be extremely worried and wondering what is wrong, and probably has come up with far worse scenarios than the truth. If you have a good or even reasonable relationship, maybe consider telling her?

I think a lot of us end up in difficult places because we are too scared, proud or stubborn to ask for support, or we think we are 'sparing' other people.

And I would bet money that you are always there if someone else needs a friendly ear. Now it's your turn.

WELL DONE for beginning to reach out for support. xxxx

shotokansho

02-08-13, 06:03

Thanks hun.
I'm 36. I know what you mean, I do worry about other people's feelings. My mum has been through a lot lately with my Nana spending 4 weeks in hospital and I spent a night in there after doing something silly, so she had my kids to look after too. But now my nana is better I might have a chat with my mum about it tonight. There won't be much she can do about it but it might help us both if she knew.
The problem I have is she will probably try and bail me out with the money if she knows and there is no way I can accept that, I already owe her £350.

Uriel

02-08-13, 06:45

Please let me assure you that you won't be arrested. A local authority has to jump through a lot of hoops before a court will consider something as drastic as arrest, which is reserved for those who refuse to pay their Council Tax, not those who, simply, forget or have difficulties paying.

shotokansho

02-08-13, 07:53

Thank you Uriel :)

mikewales

02-08-13, 08:59

I would definitely get it sorted out, nothing worse than having a problem hanging over you and worrying about it for making anxiety worse. With most debts as long as you contact them and make an arrangement to pay of the arrears according to what you can afford, they have to accept this.

If you aren't comfortable doing it yourself than either ask you MH worker to contact them, or the CAB are good at helping with things like that.

I certainly wouldn't follow any advice about not paying bills !!! he is going to have lots of fun when they catch up with him and want 20 odd years of TV licence money owing

Magic

02-08-13, 10:45

This is a message for gvpcyg,
Everyone I know has a TV licence, and buy TV stamps weekly to pay for it-- if they cannot pay for it straight off.
I know people have a struggle to do this.
I do hope you are caught. You must not be a panic person or suffer with anxiety.
This thread was started by a lady who is poorly, I hope she can get all the help she can.

gypcyg

02-08-13, 12:46

Thanks for your kind words Magic! You're not very compassionate (are you sure you've suffered from anxiety?) Unluckily for you I will never be prosecuted for not having a TV licence as I know the law :D Yes before you answer again - get it right inside your head I WILL NEVER EVER BE PROSECUTED FOR NOT HAVING A TV LICENCE SIMPLY BECAUSE I KNOW THE LAW!!! (I bet that riles you "lawful" people out there).

Yes I am a panic person thats how I've got into debt through my life - I would also bury my head in the sand and hope things went away. Over the years I noticed a pattern emerging to the threats from the companies I owed money to (see a previous post). How they would send intimidating letters that threatened baliffs or jail for not being able to pay tax. How they would then increase that debt even though I couldn't afford the original amount! (very compassionate too). Well I stopped worrying (admittedly it took me many years and a lot of reading) I figured what's the worst that they could do? 2 weeks prison? Take away my goods (which I never had much of anyway). I also lived in quite a run down area so I would see (and admire) my neighbours telling the Tv licence man and the Baliff's where to go. They'd slam the door in their face and that was it! I would watch them sheepishly walk away - Thus my new tactic was born - I never ever open my door if I don't know who is on the other side - this tactic has saved me thousands of pounds and tons of stress!

With all my free time (well I stayed in so much) I looked into the law. Lo and behold they need certain things before they can enter your property and the courts will never grant these to a TV licence collector - NEVER! So why pay something that is almost impossible to be prosecuted for? Yes I can hear the Muppets now "Cos it's the law and I follow the law", well goody goody gumdrops for you! I, on the other hand, have become informed. I know that the BBC is a mouthpiece for official Government propaganda and always has been. I am political now and I want to affect change. My non-payment might have started because I was impoverished but it has now morphed into a totally different kettle of fish.

So please don't hate me simply because I use the law to my advantage. How many of you have boycotted Vodaphone, Starbuck,s and Google since you found out they avoided (not evaded as that's unlawful) billions in tax? My guess is none - doesn't that make you a hypocrite when you attack me? All I stated in this thread was the OPTION of not paying your TV licence and saving yourself money (how much is it?). And the way of going about it if you were interested.

I'd like to finish by reiterating what Uriel said - and that is not to stress too much about debt as the corporations have to follow procedures when recovering those debts. Mike Wales is also right in saying that if you get in contact with the people you owe money to then a payment plan can be organised - Look at getoutofdebtfree also because they have great ways of reducing your debts or in some cases they can cancel them completely! Knowing the law is a wonderful thing - I'm going on holiday in 2 weeks, do you know where I get my spending money from :D Yup I think you do!

Pipkin

02-08-13, 13:21

GypsyG,

What you or I think is actually irrelevant in this case. What's important is that people are given the opportunity to see all sides of a debate and then make up their own minds, understanding and accepting the potential consequences of the choices they make. That's one of an administrator's roles on this site which is why you find us so vocal when a member suggests something which many find unacceptable, unethical and potentially unlawful.

In the spirit of trying to help and not to be patronising, I'd suggest that you be less confrontational when responding to others' posts. You said that you believe that attack is the best form of defence. Just to be clear, no-one's attacking you so you don't need to be defensive and that approach will either make people respond in the same way or become more anxious and withdraw. As a carer, I'm sure you have to deal with confrontation at work and that you're very good at defusing it. It's not so different here.

Pip

Magic

02-08-13, 14:25

OK GypsyG. You probably have not got a TV or radio anyway.

No you don't rile me at all and I do not hate you. I do not hate anyone.
and I am no hypocrite. I have my own standards and abide by the law.
In fact. AND GET THIS INTO YOUR THICK HEAD. Do I care- or what you think?-- NO.

I do know about getting in touch with the people who can help. Bin there. Done that.I hope you have a lovely holiday

meche

02-08-13, 15:04

Well said Magic.

gypcyg: How you choose to handle your finances is your choice, how others choose to handle their finances is their choice. There is no right or wrong. People will do what they are comfortable with. If I'm honest (and I'll probably get slated by you for saying it), you may be informed but I find your attitude to be very arrogant. Why do you feel the need to be so defensive and belittle people? Yep - I'm one of those muppets who when it comes to finance abides by the law. Muppet of all muppets eh! If I borrow money, I pay it back. What makes you so different? Ok - you may think you have found a way round the system it but I imagine your credit rating is apalling! Maybe you don't need credit for anything and it isn't a problem for you but for alot of people a bad credit rating can effect their lives. Just my opinion.

mikejames

02-08-13, 16:39

meche

02-08-13, 16:45

I agree Mike. And I have also made my point. I was just incensed by some of the comments and wanted to state my opinion. It's done and dusted.

Sorry Kerry if I have upset you or gatecrashed your thread in any way. I hope you can sort out your issues in a sensible way but you know we are here for you if you need advice or just to chat. Big hugs. xx

gypcyg

02-08-13, 16:47

Meche Honestly my credit rating is excellent - my bank is always calling me to try to get me to take out loans/credit cards etc (If anyone does have bad credit there are steps you can take to improve your overall score and remove any negative comments next to your name which cost no money).

The reason it is excellent is simply because I now know what to do regarding finance (I cannot stress how highly I rate the getoutofdebtfree site) The internet has a wealth of great advice* - you simply need to know where to look. I repeat that I consider this as using the law to my advantage (just like the banks and big business) - I see no-one answered my question when I asked if everyone has boycotted the major tax avoiders. Has anyone writing on this thread written to one of the major tax avoiding companies or to the Government to air their disgust that they allow them to avoid billions of pounds every year? (thought not)

Breaking the law is a form of protest that I personally find acceptable - Think of the Poll Tax riots, the Greenham Common Demonstrations, the pioneers of Women's Liberation. In Nazi Germany it was illegal to harbour Jews, In some American states it is illegal to feed homeless people - Should all laws be followed? Personally I find the Bedroom Tax reprehensible and if it had affected me then I wouldn't be paying it (along with the tens of thousands who also can't/won't pay. I consider those people as heroes - Why should the poor pay more taxes than the rich? Why shouldn't the poor use the law to their advantage? I found it quite offensive that someone wrote that because I have an anxiety disorder then I can't make a stand against what I see as unfairness in society. Why should I follow a system that I consider broken?

Meche, your comment about repaying loans is invalid in this argument and I don't see why you wrote it - FYI though, if I borrow money (prob twice in my life) then I have always paid it back. But like you said "How I handle my finances is my business" (just before you stuck your nose into it) You call me arrogant, does that mean it's ok for me to call you ignorant?

If anyone feels I've been too confrontational then I am sorry - When I was younger I allowed people to walk all over me rather than stand my ground, maybe I've swung too far the other way now but with more time I'm sure I'll find the right way to respond to what I see as attacks (even though they are not meant as such).

From now on I'd like to be addressed as GypcyG Licence Free!

*It is also full of conmen and idiots without a clue so be careful to double check any information you have been given.

kittikat

02-08-13, 17:13

:bighug1:can we all calm down a little and remember this post is about helping Kerry who is going through a rough time

At no point was this ever supposed to be "how to dodge the system" and I pay for you etcetc

Am sure Kerry never intended this ...........I have made my point on the matter very clear but a lady is suffering here and needs our help and I thought we were all in this together to help each other no matter what and no judging .........cos I don't know about you but I don't rule the land

Lets try and help Kerry and stop bickering ..............what's the point in that

Mikey and lots of love to all and

I couldn't agree more, well said Mike :hugs: xx

And to you Kerry, I do hope you find the courage to tell your mum, I am sure that she will be there for you and do her best to help you. No one would want to see their family member suffering in this way.

And well done for reaching out, we are all here for you hun :bighug1: xxxx

---------- Post added at 17:13 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------

Oh and gypcyg...perhaps it would be a good idea to put those websites in the "Useful Links" category....just a thought :)

shotokansho

02-08-13, 19:50

Ok I'm in a really bad place. My mum is coming up shortly and I'm going to ask her to take me to A&E, I can't cope with what I'm feeling I need to see someone. My self harm and suicidal thoughts are back and I'm scared.

I really hate the fact that this thread has turned into an argument, I'm sorry if I have riled people. I didn't mean too. I have been on this site for 4 years and I don't think any of my threads have ever caused a row.

I am going to beg the on duty psychiatrist to keep me in hospital, I just don't feel safe. The good thing is that I have heard today that I didn't actually HAVE to attend court, it just would have been in my best interest if I had. So I am not too worried about that now.

The stress of this, as well as other issues that have been going on lately is just simply too much for me to deal with and I am tethering on the edge. I am scared stiff of telling mum that I need to go to hospital, but I will do something silly otherwise.

Thank you again everyone, I do so much appreciate it...Everyone is brilliant on here...I totally mean that.

Kerry

Speranza

02-08-13, 19:52

Sweetheart, you HAVE NOT CAUSED the argument. It was not you. It wasn't even anything to do with what you said. Forget about that and concentrate on getting yourself into a better mental state. You have done nothing wrong. You simply aren't in a good place to be coping at the moment, with things which countless other people can't cope with either.

Big, BIG, BIG hugs to you my darling. XXXXX

Edie

02-08-13, 20:37

Kerry, the row was not your fault in the slightest.

I'm so sorry you're feeling so awful. You're doing the right thing. I hope you'll get the support you need. Much love to you xxx

gypcyg

02-08-13, 20:43

Kerry I'm sorry if this little disagreement is causing you discomfort - It's just us expressing a difference of opinion, it wasn't caused by anything you said :)

I will post the websites in the section suggested by the poster on page 5 and withdraw from this thread. Kerry I am really sorry if I've upset you - that is the last thing I would've wanted.

I hope you can find strength and remember you're a survivor!

Speranza

02-08-13, 20:47

Thanks gypcyg. :)

Pipkin

02-08-13, 20:48

Kerry,

Sorry you're feeling like this. As others have said, the comments on here are no reflection on you - people are just trying to be helpful but all have different opinions and sometimes don't react in the most constructive way. It's not your fault in any way so don't think that it is. We've all got your best interests at heart and we won't allow anymore of this type of discussion on this thread.

Take care

Pip x

Please can everyone read Kerry's post carefully before posting on here. We don't like closing threads but we will if this type of discussion continues.

shotokansho

02-08-13, 20:52

Thank you. It's ok, I know people have different opinions and that's fine. Even though it has upset me a little that's really not the brunt of it, just doesn't help.

My legs feel like jelly and I feel so sick. If I can just relax a little I may be ok and not need hospital.

Tessar

02-08-13, 21:54

How r you now Kerry? I was wondering if your mum came round & if you've been able to chat at all. Anyway, sending you warm & caring hugs & thinking of you.

kittikat

02-08-13, 22:05

Big hugs to you Kerry we are all here for you sweetheart xxx

:hugs: :hugs: I wish you well xxxx

shotokansho

02-08-13, 22:13

Mum is here but not said anything to her, I'm pretending well. I think I'm calming a little but still anxious. I think I may just need a good sleep, maybe things will seem brighter in the morning and at least I'm not on my own I guess.
It doesn't help that the kids are not here, I've nothing to focus on.

Tessar

02-08-13, 22:35

Well... Kerry, this "pretending" thing..... Hmmmmm. See I used to do that. I still do it to a degree. Even when I have been sitting with people like therapists or counsellors. I wasn't able to open up. To tell them how bad I feel. But..... What I really do wish is that I HAD found a way to open up sooner. Finally, this year I feel I did open up properly. It helped me so much. I felt better in the long run even though at the time I felt like it would overtake me completely and swallow me up.
You don't have to say much, just maybe think of a few words to start a conversation perhaps with your mum. It's not easy opening up but when I have done, it's helped me so much. Imagine some of your burden being lifted.
Also, these things happening for you now, finance wise, none of them are worth getting really really anxious about. Most certainly they are not worth harming yourself over. That is because you, as a person, are worthwhile. Whilst thoughts of this nature are very overwhelming & compelling, it is worth reminding yourself any time you feel really bad...that with the right help (which you are already endeavouring to get) you will begin to feel better in time. Ride the storm Kerry. Remember your friends are here. There have been some lovely supportive posts from people who really do care about you. So if things feel difficult, come here. Share. We will do everything we can to look after you.
I recall the time when I felt my worst, the one thing I really needed was a place like this to come to. So I wouldn't feel alone or overwhelmed. So don't forget keep on talking. Byeee for now, hope u sleep well, I'm off to get my beauty sleep ... :-)

meche

02-08-13, 22:49

Kerry - I apologise sincerely if I have said anything that has upset you sweetheart. It was nothing you said - just a difference of opinion. Big hugs sweetheart. Hope you're feeling better. xx

Gypcyg: if I have said anything that has offended you then I also apologise. I have no right to judge you. Lets all just agree to disagree. xx

shotokansho

02-08-13, 22:54

Thank you Tessar, I will take on board everything you have said. My heart beat is racing and skipping beats. I will see how I feel tomorrow, and how I get on through the night. Damn I could do with a diazepam!

Meche please don't apologise...it's fine honestly, lets just forget about it, thanks xx

Magic

03-08-13, 09:03

All the best shotokansho.:hugs::hugs::hugs:xx

shotokansho

03-08-13, 12:15

Morning everyone. Well I made a small step last night and told my mum that I was highly anxious, I told her all my physical symptoms and she was great. She kept making conversations and making me laugh and she waited until I had gone to sleep before she did (even though it was late). My physical symptoms have virtually all gone and I am so relieved. It just goes to show what talking to someone can do.

I just want to thank everyone for their help and support during my difficult time. You have all been amazing and I truly do appreciate it so much. Thank you.

Kerry xx

Magic

03-08-13, 13:11

Well done Kerry. I find it better talking to someone. You have a understanding Mum and that's great. We are all here for you anytime :hugs:xx

kittikat

03-08-13, 13:30

Aww, that is fantastic news Kerry....well done.

Big Hugs to you and remember, keep talking!! Everyone has your best interests at heart. Stay strong.

:bighug1: Kitti :flowers: xxx

Tessar

03-08-13, 21:25

Well done Kerry!!! Keep at it because talking really is good therapy. Especially as receiving reassurance from your mother is so good.its lovely that she looked after you.

mikejames

04-08-13, 19:14

well done sweetheart xxxxxxxx proud of you girl xxx

mikey

xxxxxxxxxxxx

bagpuss75

04-08-13, 21:55

I've only just read this thread and had to reply as it touched me.
Your mum sounds amazing and very understanding. She loves you and wants to help - I'm 38 and couldn't have got through this last year without my mum who has helped me both financially and emotionally. Your mum will want you to lean on her, just like you'd want your kids to come to you, so accept her support. There will be times in the future when she will need your support I'm sure.
I just wanted to say as well that my dad got himself into a real pickle financially and he didn't speak to us about it. We found out quite a few weeks down the road. He had lots of unpaid bills etc, but we went together and spoke to all the people we needed to and everyone was very understanding about it. There was never any word of prosecution as he wanted to pay everything, but wasn't quite sure where to start. Things had got on top of him so much.
Hope you get things sorted and a big hug to you.