View Full Version : Feeling harassed after returning to work - advice?
Catherine84
23-08-13, 19:04
I posted a short while ago about how I was returning to work after a long term absence of 5 and a half months for Generalised Anxiety Disorder.
To put it bluntly, I met with my boss this afternoon, and have had the worst day ever.
When I returned three weeks ago, my boss and I agreed that I was to have regular progress reviews. I tried not to worry too much about these (I have enough on my plate trying to beat this awful condition, as we all do!) and assumed they just wanted to check that I was coping ok with the transition, and if there was anything they could do to support me/make my return to work easier. The meeting today seemed to take an entirely different tone to the previous ones. I was told, before the meeting, to draw up a timetable of what work I proposed to do in the next two weeks. I assumed, again, that this was to help reduce my stress. In the meeting, she said how 'now I was at work again, that there were expectations I now had to fulfill, and the table was a way of them tracking if I was keeping up with the required productivity, and fulfilling my role as a research chemist, and so they could see when there were dips in my productivity'. She then went on to say how she had brought up with HR how my 'lack of confidence and indecision' had affected my productivity in the past (it was brought up in performance reviews how I do sometimes do too many repeats to check accuracy, but that I was competent and should have faith in myself, and I always got the required rating of 'successful performance'). She also stated it was to check the projects were proceeding at the required rate (as anyone who works in R&D knows, you do sometimes have setbacks!). She even went as far as to suggest how many tests I should be doing in a morning (7+ - each actual run is 15 minutes, but you have to weigh everything out and prepare the solutions, so it is more like half an hour each. You can stagger them, but I end up with 'headless chicken' syndrome, which in turn affects how accurate I am!). I have heard people speak of 'capability procedure', and I do wonder whether they are trying to justify getting rid of me, though she never mentioned if they were following a formal procedure. They got a temp in while I was off, who seems very popular and good at the job.
She then went on to ask me how I had managed to integrate being back, so I said that, on the whole, people had been sensitive. She then probed me, saying how she had noticed I had been taking my lunch break late (you are allowed to take it at any time), and 'was this because I was trying to avoid people'.
The last thing, and possibly the worst, is that, on the GP's recommendation after mentioning it was something I wanted to do (in her own words, she thought it would avoid me going 'back to square one'), I brought up the subject with Occupational Health about reducing my hours to 4 days a week, and that I was prepared to take the financial hit. This in itself brought up problems, because my boss wanted to know why I had brought it up with them before her. They then said that they would wait for the GP's letter and take it from there. My boss today, however, said that she had brought it up with her manager and the other boss in our team, and that they would possibly consider it in 6 months' time, when I was 'functional again'. I can't imagine struggling through that long! I'm wondering if I have a right to submit an application anyway, as they haven't even got the GP's letter yet. I know it can be denied, as a business is not going to run itself, and I would have to demonstrate that I could do what was required of me in less time. It's more the fact that they won't even let me fill in the paperwork and apply formally. My boss and the other woman on the team (the latter of which does not have children of 'dependent' age) both work a 4 day week.
I just wanted some advice on how to proceed really - I have been crying for the last hour and I am going to be a wreck all weekend now. I was close to just walking out, as I couldn't hold myself together. I don't even have a union, so I don't know where to turn. My partner has offered to put in a word for me, but I don't want to be confrontational. All this is really hindering my recovery, when I didn't really feel well enough to go back anyway (the GP would not extend my note), not to mention reducing my self esteem further, and making me feel like I am stupid and no good at anything.
If you read to the end of this, you deserve a pat on the back! I know I can waffle for Britain :).
Catherine x
I'm afraid I can't offer u much advice where work is concerned but I just wanted to say that I really feel for u having to put up with all that crap and you should commend yourself for doing what ur doing. That's seems like a lot to take on and in an ideal situation I think u should tell them to stick the job. Stress is no good for any of us. I wish u well and I hope u get this sorted
Catherine, this sounds like victimisation to me, from what you are saying, it seems as though they are trying to push you out. I would try and make an appointment with the CAB for help with this problem. Your GP doesn't sound like a lot of help either, I know what you have been going through and I also know that it is a living hell, if it was me I would change my GP and apply for ESA. I say, if it was me, which it is not. If you can afford legal assistance - get it.
sarah.x
It is not too late for you to join a union, they will act on your behalf and advise you as soon as you join even if it is a current issue. You could try calling a union like Unite. Also you could call ACAS http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461 tell them what is happening and they will advise you.
Firstly scientists don't waffle and what your experiencing is pressure after pressure. I think I've mentioned career wise I'm very similar to you and can completely visualise all this happening in the work place, as I read through your thread. Yes you should have more faith in yourself and be confident and trust yourself knowing your good at what you do but, the more you repeat stuff in science the better. Well that's what I've always been told. Bit of a funny remark to make, in a way. All I can say is I think you need to decide if or not to stay in this current role for this particular company anymore?? I know you've threaded about this before and it just seems to be getting worse. Financially and for some leaving work can be a dire option , no matter how ill you may be but, i really don't know where your supposed to go from here especially having no union behind you. I think you should do as Annie said regarding the union and consider your future with your current employer.
Good luck x
Catherine84
24-08-13, 10:10
Thank you all of you for replying and for your very helpful advice - I really appreciate it.
Sands, I know exactly what you mean about telling them to stick the job - I could so easily do that right now. Part of me thinks that it would make things easy for them, and I shouldn't go down without a fight, but if I am going to constantly be under this level of pressure and have my life made difficult, I am starting to think that my health needs to come first.
The CAB sounds like a good first port of call, and also it is reassuring to know that it isn't too late to join a union. I might try and make an appointment for next week if I can, as my partner is off work. Do you know if you are allowed to have someone accompany you? I intend to try and make a list of everything that was said, but I tend to seize up under stress - having someone else there who can add their part to the conversation, and who has seen me at my worst might help my case.
I have enough savings to live off at the moment, due to living with my parents while I worked until two years ago, which allowed me to save up a bit, so money isn't a problem short term. It's more long term finances I am worried about - I don't want all my hard work the last five years to go down the drain and go back to where I was when I left uni. It's also more my prospects at finding work again - I know people aren't allowed to discriminate, but I have had two periods of long term sickness in the last 3 years (I had 3 months in 2010), but in between, almost perfect attendance. If I allow myself a little time to sort myself out and try and get better, will the gap on my CV make it hard for me to ever get back into work? I have thought about if the worst happens, and maybe I could try and do a course to help improve my prospects, as then it shows that I am using my time out of work constructively. I'm not sure how many employers make you declare your sick record before an offer of employment, and what period this has to be over (in my last place if work, it was over the last 12 months).
The hardest part is, this job pays a very decent salary - I am really stuck between a rock and a hard place, I guess.
I will definitely give your suggestions a go regardless - after all, I have nothing to lose by seeking advice :).
Thank you,
Catherine x
Morning Catherine what are your qualifications at highest level.... I'm assuming bsc msc ???
Look I've lost my career. Im a biomed I did fd maths and sci and then biomedical route human biology BSc 4 years I worked over a year in a lab - hurrendous competitive because it was not strictly a testing lab there were people from all walks of life , a promotion came up & some made it very clear to me as I was new they didn't think any one new should apply. And there was a divide between those with and those without degrees & it created a bit of friction. I left maternity & I then went onto post graduate study for secondary science teacher training. But I've had a very turbulent 10 years if u read some of my first threads posts you might get an idea of my personal life. Anyway after having my second child and onto my PGCE and finally moving into my house after 5 years of trying to get onto property ladder - I HAD A BREAKDOWN. Horrific acute panic attacks , anticipatory anxiety lead to agrophobia and with kids and school run , there was no choice for me to continue my course. I quit half way through. All the after school clubs and breakfast clubs I left my daughter at from 8-6 everyday and chucking my 18 month old in nursery and all the work I'd done to that point - MY doc basically told me I needed NO stimulus and to go home and scrub floors. Heartbreaking! Can u imagine. Luckily my hubby on decent salary but then we for the last 2-3 years because of my career collapse - we've lived from hand to mouth and that's put serious strain on our marriage. I left my PGCE course feb 2011 and SO I'm really out of the science / career loop now!!!! I'm very very very ambitious BUT I've learnt self preservation & health are the key to everything in life and if your as bad as your saying you might have to jump off the bus - for now!
Collette x
I gave up a very good job earlier this year due to anxiety as I realised my health had to come first. I have no regrets about it. Financially we are worse off but I was assessed by ATOS and I get contributions based ESA for a year.
If you contact ACAS or the union they will be able to discuss ways of leaving if that is what you decide, such as a compromise agreement which will pay you money to leave (with a reference). ACAS are the best to contact on any work related issues (there is no charge).
I am now doing a cleaning job for a few hours a week and selling cosmetics door to door and enjoying it. Much less stressful than my previous work. It may sound like a waste of my qualifications but I am a happier person now :D
Catherine84
24-08-13, 11:08
Hello Annie,
I am glad that your stress has reduced now, and that you are enjoying your new work. My father often says, when I suggest that I don't want to stay in chemistry forever, that I am 'wasting my qualifications', but I have come to the conclusion that I am not the kind of 'career type', who wants to climb to the top of the ladder in a stressful job, at the expense of my health and work-life balance. Not that that is an issue in my current job anyway, as I am one grade from the bottom (it's on a scale of about 1-8, and I'm level 2) and there are no prospects of promotion for the foreseeable future, if ever.
Did you find, when you applied for ESA, that it was hard to get? I have heard horror stories about ATOS, and their attitude towards people with mental health problems. I am glad that you managed to succeed in getting it. I am hoping I won't have to go down that avenue for some time yet, but it is good to know that there are success stories.
Thank you for your replies. :hugs:
Catherine x
Hello Collette,
Wow, I am so sorry to hear what a difficult time you have had - it really puts my problems into perspective. I completely know where you are coming from, being disheartened by what your doctor said (that is pretty out of order, to be honest). You sound like an extremely hard working, driven person, and you want all your efforts to not be in vain. Part of what hurts so much is knowing I put the effort in to get my degree (I graduated with an MChem six years ago), and wondering what the point really was in the long term. I can really relate to what you are saying there.
It sounds like you had a really hostile environment at your old workplace, and I think you did the right thing by moving on. It sometimes takes a tremendous amount of courage to put your foot down and say 'enough is enough', but I think there reaches a point where you feel, even by potentially taking a risk, there is nothing to lose. My friend, who studied the same course as me, works as an accountant, and from what he has said, people will trample all over everyone else to climb the ladder - backstabbing, telling on colleagues etc. I personally couldn't bear to be in an environment like that - he is obviously a stronger person than me.
At the end of the day, a job is a means to an end, but money has to be balanced with happiness - you are so right.
I really wish you all the best, and I hope things will improve for you soon. :hugs:
Catherine x
My ATOS experience wasn't at bad as others have had the doctor I saw was so lovely and understanding. I was put in the working group.
Yes Cathrine they were like that with me! Because I was as qualified as the managers, some thought I'd obviously and very quickly over take them, on the career ladder?? NHS has bands like you in your work place and i think i was band 3-4 but on paper qualified at band 5-6 which is management level. After graduation I took the job part time as it fitted in with my daughter being at school and I thought perfect starting point being my first job after qualifying especially being with the NHS.
Anyway... I was accused of violating a standard technique - my small kids would have known not to do, mix blood packs from 2 different donors??? One word catastrophic - comes to mind! I questioned who had reported me and the shift supervisor was stupid enough to say who had reported me and that the person in question, "overheard" me talking about it ( opening donor packs of blood and combining 2 differnt donors blood together) Ludicrous !!!!! Another was me and my collegue accused of spilling blood and not reporting nor logging the incident? We'd have seen it, my gosh it's blood?? Then there was what I'd call bullying.
But your friends right & spot on with what he said regarding - backstabbing and telling on collegues. Just awful.
I really hope you find a way through this too. But do remember you don't want to end up hitting rock bottom because even getting out of bed and breathing will seem like a struggle, never mind getting dressed and driving to work. You need health on your side for all you do in life , this I myself use to take for granted - not any more! I just have to count my blessings in life & keep looking forward. All is not wasted ! There will be other opertunities In future.
But health is soooo very important. When it comes to career & money and health it's about striking a balance. Personally right now I'd rather be healthy and happy than ever have to go through what I did in 2011 again.
Good luck let us know how u get on. X
Hi Catherine,
I can't add to the excellent advice you've received in this thread but I wish you well.
One thing I would suggest though in any future encounters; if at all possible, keep a log of who said what, where and when, either to or in front of you. That will help you feel more in control of the situation and also give you something to refer to if or when you have to get the union involved.
Everyone is giving you excellent advice Catherine. You can take someone with you to the CAB, I took my Mother for support when I went to get help with filling in the ESA forms. Most of the people who work there are highly qualified and able to support and direct you in the appropriate direction. A lot of the solicitors work on a voluntary basis and you would probably be offered an appointment to return and see one for legal advice. As everyone else has pointed out your health should come first. If as you have said, you would be able to support yourself financially for a while, a change in direction may be a good idea. Thinking of you.x
Catherine84
26-08-13, 15:38
Thank you again everyone for all the advice you have given.
I'm a wreck today - cannot stop hyperventilating, and I don't know how on earth I am going to cope going in tomorrow.
I am going to find a phone number for my local branch of CAB and try and make an appointment tomorrow - hopefully I will be able to be seen fairly soon and I will be able to find out where I stand from a legal viewpoint. One of my friends has suggested getting a paper record of my positive performance reviews, so I can question what had changed if it comes to that.
I'm not sure whether it is worth still getting the GP to send the letter anyway, or whether this will just create more animosity. I suppose it wouldn't hurt for her to know of the situation and what effect it is having on me.
And Collette, I cannot believe your colleagues would actually do that to you - that is absolutely appalling. There are some very malicious people out there - considering most of us in this world rely on work to feed ourselves and our families, and put a roof over our heads, why would anyone tell lies like that about a fellow human being that puts them in danger of losing their job?
Catherine x
Catherine, I am in a similar place. To be blunt, returning to work is not an option for me now, and that is quite scary, especially as I still have a lot of 'motions' to go through. I have no idea what will come next but I had never heard of the 'compromise agreement' before someone pmd me and I have seen it again on this thread - I think that is what I shall have to go for.
Just remember you are not alone. Whilst we can eat and sleep and have a roof over our heads we are surely winning in comparison with a lot of the world. xxx
Ahh Cathrine - yes do try and get in touch with CAB it's free advice so do use it & I really think, u need all the help u can find regarding your current situation! It sounds like your at your wits end over this & I dont want to sound morbid but this could eventually lead to you having complete meltdown.
Ps - my supervisor knew she had dealt with the donor pack situation completly wrong because A - she randomly said it on the lab floor in front of others and B- I immeadiatly saw red and asked - why/what/who said that about me? To cut a long story short my quick reaction paid dividends & later that evening she came up to me asked me to go into the office & SHE started crying and apologised to me and that she'd called the lab manager Bernard at home because she knew she'd dealt with it all wrong and because people witnessed it, I think she was scared I'd take it further. Ha ha served her right!
Anyway Cathrine keep us updated with this one & as always there's been some great support and advice given to u by NMP members so please keep posting.
Good luck X
Richard1960
27-08-13, 02:34
It really sounds like you are going through the mill,i am a union steward for unison rest assured you are not the only person going through anxiety problems,a lot of my casework involves issues around this.
You are doing the right thing by going to the cab and getting advice is there a union presence in your workplace? i often find people do not want to join until its too late.!
I work for the NHS and we have quite a long procedure for sickness like this which includes access to trained councillors does your workplace have access to this sort of thing,many large employers do.
All the best.
Richard.:)
Catherine84
27-08-13, 07:30
I feel in no fit state to go in this morning. I cannot breathe automatically - I am having to do it manually, and it is making me lightheaded. Every breath frightens me, and I cannot let go. I have been panicking so much, I have thrown up, and I want to kill myself. I cannot go on like this, I am falling backwards at an alarming rate. My partner is just saying I have to go to work, or I probably will lose my job, but I really need to see a doctor. I cannot function at all like this - eternal peace would be so much easier.
Catherine... don't go. DO go to your doctor. It is not worth wondering whether to go down the route where they can make your life not worth living. Although you are on that route I'm afraid. Tell your doctor you feel suicidal and stuff work - what is the point anyway of keeping a job which makes you feel this way? It is not worth it Sweetheart, your reaction is perfectly rational. PLEASE go to the doctor today. xxx
Catherine84
27-08-13, 08:28
Thank you, Speranza. :hugs:
I really don't want to go in, but my partner is threatening to phone work and tell them I have a hangover and that's why I am not in. I completely broke down a few minutes ago, but I am now calm enough to at least type this message.
I am definitely going to take your advice and go to the doctor today. I feel that is the highest priority right now. Work won't like me going in their time, but stuff them - you are right.
X
Well done. Maybe your partner is worried about money? Or just not the right person to support you through this? Whatever - the key for everyone here is learning to support ourselves... we are here for you. x:hugs:
Catherine84
27-08-13, 12:55
Thank you, Speranza.
Money is partly an issue, but he is in a well paid job. I think he's more worried about my anxiety becoming even worse if I lose my job. At the moment though, I cannot envisage carrying on like this. I have been trying to fend off a panic attack all morning, and I have spent the entire morning focusing on my breathing and consequently being very lightheaded. I am just waiting to run my third test now, and I was supposed to do 7 this morning. We keep having meetings, which is holding me up. I just made a mistake when weighing out the water for one of my solutions, and I don't have time to do it again before the next meeting at 1. I just want to run far away from here and escape. I feel like I am being set up to fail :weep:.
I also couldn't get a doctor's appointment. The surgery is 20 minutes from work, and they could only give me 11:50, so I now have the stress of having to negotiate with work about going.
X
Ahhhhhh Catherine :bighug::bighug:
Yep money is always an issue one way or another AND also, the fact that if at home your anxiety could become a lot worse - I can see that BUT sometimes like I said before its about getting the health/work balance right! Take it from someone who knows. I worked myself into the ground and carried on thinking THIS AFFLICTION would pass then...... I had a complete breakdown panic attacks got worse and worse until they frightened me sooooo much I became agrophobic, even a 5 minute drive to my daughters school to drop her off , would send my heart racing.
Catherine what do you think you should do right now , what's your gut feeling because from what your saying in your recent posts , I personally think you need the doc and time to sort yourself out , outside of work.
Yep making up solutions can be a bugger - but it will get done one way or another don't worry about that - one of those days. Your health is more important than calculating solutions and working out moles!!!
Take great care of yourself Collette X
Ahhhhhh Catherine :bighug::bighug:
Yep money is always an issue one way or another AND also, the fact that if at home your anxiety could become a lot worse - I can see that BUT sometimes like I said before its about getting the health/work balance right! Take it from someone who knows. I worked myself into the ground and carried on thinking THIS AFFLICTION would pass then...... I had a complete breakdown panic attacks got worse and worse until they frightened me sooooo much I became agrophobic, even a 5 minute drive to my daughters school to drop her off , would send my heart racing.
Catherine what do you think you should do right now , what's your gut feeling because from what your saying in your recent posts , I personally think you need the doc and time to sort yourself out , outside of work.
Yep making up solutions can be a bugger - but it will get done one way or another don't worry about that - one of those days. Your health is more important than calculating solutions and working out moles!!!
Take great care of yourself Collette X
Hi Catherine I too was like Collette, my problems were not work ones, they were personal but like Collette I worked myself into the ground although I knew what was wrong I kept pushing and pushing myself until I had a complete breakdown in April, which resulted in panic/anxiety from the moment I woke till I went to bed, the only reprieve was sleep, I also became agoraphobic.
You have to take control now and nip this in the bud don't let it get to the stage we did. You need to think of yourself and your health. Good luck with what you decide Kim xx
Catherine84
28-08-13, 07:33
Hello,
I really feel like I'm on the edge of a precipice right now and I am close to falling off and having another breakdown. Every day seems more of a struggle than the last. My sleep is poor because I drink every night.
I know you are right - my health should come first. I am dreading doing even two hours at that place, let alone a full day (and I will have to stay late because of the appointment). Truthfully, I am hoping that the doctor doesn't make me go back there this afternoon. I feel worse than I did when I was first signed off, and I am struggling to have a bath at the moment (I am typing this from my phone). At the same time, the thought of calling work again to say I am ill is sending me into a state of panic.
I'm really not sure where to go from here :weep:. Losing my job will open up loads more stress. I know I am nearly thirty, but my parents will be disgusted with me. Up until now, they have been very supportive (though my father does lose his temper a fair bit), and I feel like I will lose that and feel really alone. I am at the point now though where I don't care any more. None of the possible outcomes are good, so I have nothing to lose by trying to get myself better.
Thank you for all your support. I really don't know how I would have coped without it, and I really mean that.
Catherine x
Morning Catherine - I have very very judgmental parents too. Having kids and marrying a man I shouldn't have has caused some right problems for me. Even after 12 years with my husband and married for 8 my dad still tries it on vile comments on the few occasions I see him. Ohhhhh and he always says "interesting to see what you do career wise because your careers never really taken off as it!". Well I'm only 31 have 2 kids and have bought 3 houses , I have gained a BSc , worked ,got married and learnt to drive & with baby number 3 on the way for a women my age - I don't think I've done bad at all!
Sod him and although I am very conscientious about everything and everyone - my patience has ran out!!! I'm an adult in my own right and my dad is nothing but a bully at times! He's not with my mum she got sectioned , my brother went to live with him, my brother for 7 years has absolutly nothing to do with my mum and can't stand my dad. My dad has a 7 year old to another women - he also isn't with BUT they own houses together, go theatre , on hol etc for the sake of the child and dad can't stand her either but then she's nice all of a sudden - He says shes just a bit mardy???? SO now My thinking about my dad is - u have had your opinions on my life and made your opinion very clear dad. Enough! Dad your life is a mess. Ohhhhh, He wouldn't accept my anxiety either and 2 years ago carried on pushing me out and about and my brother had to almost shout at him for me and tell him I was severely unwell.
He's the type of man that will boast how healthy he is and how he never gets ill. Only last week he was in my house telling me about a tenant he's got whose had a anxiety attack, collapsed and got hospitalised. HIS response - sounds awful, I don't know about all that , I'm not that type of person. WHAT???? Anyone can get anxiety etc - he's got a severe God complex going on.
Sorry to ramble but I wanted to get it accross that your parents should have no baring on your decision they should be there to support u and based on my own experience with my parents and my work/panic issues - I've had NO, NO support at all. It felt like they thought I was lying OR exaggerating about my breakdown to avoid going out.
SO on the note - Im really not bothered what they think anymore. The stress I've had has been unbelievable at a time when I really did not need the additional stress. By the 2 people who should be in my corner when the chips are down.
Concentrate on your self
Keep strong Hun XXXXX
Catherine, do check out the links to CBT. Some of the things you are thinking are thoughts which you can learn to counter/ignore. TELL THE DOCTOR you don't feel you can go back. XXXXX
Great advice speranza:winks:
Catherine84
28-08-13, 16:26
Thank you for the links, Speranza - I will definitely look at them :).
And Collette, lots and lots of :hugs: for you. The way your dad has behaved is totally out of order. Unfortunately, I have seen people act in a similar way. You are spot on with how anxiety can affect anyone, but it seems that some people will never understand the living hell we go through if they haven't experienced it themselves. What I consider my closest friend (we have known each other for nearly 24 years!) recently told me that I need to 'man up' and 'kick myself up the backside' to sort my life out. I know she has been through a hell of a lot recently, but that really hurt. I am a very shy and reserved person, and making friends is hard for me at the best of times, so to have someone you feel you can turn to say that really upset me. I just want you to know that you are not alone, and I understand as best as I can how you feel with regard to that.
I've now completely cracked. Went to the doctor after the longest two hours of my life at work this morning. I got nothing done - ended up staring at my screen blankly. My partner came with me for my appointment - I ended up practically crying in front of the doctor. I mentioned everything that happened at work and she too thought it was unacceptable. She encouraged me to take the Pregabalin, but I am still reluctant to do so when I have to be at work. The moment I got out of there, I started crying uncontrollably, and unfortunately clawed at my arm, which caused it to bleed. She did say I didn't have to go back this afternoon, to be fair, but I just didn't know what to say, as I didn't want to do anything too hastily.
So I finally put my foot down and said enough is enough. I was in no fit state, so I got my partner to phone my line manager this week (conveniently enough, my boss is away until Tuesday), and requested that I take the rest of the week out of my annual leave entitlement. I need a couple of days to sort myself out, and whilst at times I don't think I am well enough to go back there, it at least gives me some space. I already had Friday booked, but it was a struggle to get it (my boss wanted my confirmation that it was a genuine holiday request, and not because I was unwell again!), so I now have the stress of facing her when I go back on Monday.
My partner took me to the CAB today, but they are closed, so we are going to try again in the morning. Hopefully that may reduce my stress a little.
Thank you again for your support. X
Really do try & rest over the next couple of days , leave work at work and use your time to sort your self out a bit. Yes do keep trying CAB u really need to know where u stand before you make any serious decisions but also remember as much as you dont want to really have to jack work in, it's your decision & your life ultimately. Whatever u decide, please don't let friends 'man up' comments, your dad or partner dictate your ultimate decision.
:hugs: thinking of u x
Good advice Col! ;)
I can't stress enough that you have to go with YOUR gut, not your partner's.
Actually I tormented myself over all this too - "If I don't go in tomorrow I will never be able to go back..." I made myself go in for two more weeks just so I could tell myself I had tried. You know what? In the end a pupil (they are all Special Needs) came up to me and hugged me and said, "Miss - you need to go home and rest, you've had enough."
:weep::unsure::wacko:
She was absolutely right. I actually don't give a piece of dog poo whether I ever go back (that's not true - I'm definitely NOT going back). But whatever comes next, at least I don't feel as though I am about to disintegrate.
Life is too short to spend it feeling this way any longer than we have to. I am incredibly proud of you - we all know on here what strength it takes to go and talk to the doctor honestly. If I were you I would be making another appointment to speak to him/her on Friday.
Please keep us posted, and trust yourself to know what you need.
Lots of love, Gill xx
Catherine84
29-08-13, 15:50
I really need someone to reassure me right now.
I have just been to the CAB and they are pretty much implying I should struggle on, and that giving up will make things easy for work. He also said that it would be a shame to give up a decent job I have been in for nearly 6 years! Also that I should talk to my boss in person, which is making me so anxious. I could barely wash myself this morning as my breathing panic has become so bad, I am constantly hyperventilating. I hate not being in control of it and feel like I am losing my sane mind.
I just cannot go on. I feel like I have reached the end of the road. I have just had a breakdown and cannot stop crying. I just want to reach for the kitchen drawer and grab something to end my life. I can't even cope with my breathing, let alone all the stress this is piling on me.
The occupational health nurse rang today, so I told her everything. She just said that my boss is a very approachable person (yeah, right) and she would understand if I voiced my concerns. I could barely face going to the CAB, let alone to work! She also said that my workplace had been very supportive, and done a lot for me. I now feel like I am the one in the wrong! She also asked me how I felt I would be able to carry out my role in the next couple of months, and said if the doctor signed me off again, it wouldn't help anything! She also mentioned my holiday request, and how they wondered why my partner phoned in, and not me. I just said I was in a mess yesterday, and in no fit state to talk to anyone. She just told me to get plenty of rest and forget about work, but to try to come in on Monday. I am struggling with my breathing, let alone getting into work! Every time my mind wanders from it, it goes out of rhythm, I feel like I am being winded, and it seems to stop!
My partner even said 'don't make out you are the only one suffering through all this, because you aren't'.
I just feel like my life isn't worth living any more. I really want someone to tell me things will get better, but it's up to me to beat this crippling anxiety, and I feel like I am fighting a losing battle.
I'm off to get a couple of glasses of wine at 4 in the afternoon.
Oh dear my God! Catherine honey this is awful. Right CAB are gonna say that because idealistically they are looking at the bigger picture and looking to the future. I kind of get in this current economic climate etc How it would be best to stick it out! BUT that's idealistic!!! Do they not realise that some of us more driven individuals well- to put it this way when we walk into a CAB office that says a lot. We've hit rock bottom and there's no where else to go.
There advice is good but, to me speaking in very broad terms. Perhaps if they knew you personally they'd realise to a person like you , that advice is not very constructive. Of course you'd stay in work without a doubt if you thought u 100% could.
As for the nurse hmmmm some are exceptional & others I think get a free degree and more or less garunteed NHS job and the sentiment behind nursing is lost or never there in the first place. That's me talking from personal experience having 2 nurses in my family who say some absurd things about their jobs, the patients etc - that I don't care to repeat. Vile!
But some I think nurse or not like to act all correct tick box and enjoy situations like yours.They are human after all. And with all humans u get good ones and bad.
As for ticking boxes - Employers are clever and Ive read stuff on NMP before where the work place has ticked all the right boxes and on paper behaved correct and faultless. But at the end of the day the nurse doesn't do your job, walk in your shoes or know what's going on from a personal perspective. Its all very much they've ticked all the boxes therefore they've done all they can according to the nurse?
Your an intelligent person Catherine and I think u should be Very selfish right now and seriously get yourself right. I think u should definitely join a union pronto. U need to get your point accross and pull them up about stuff like getting your partner to phone in work for u - for God sake - petty nit picking idiots.
Also all the other stuff that's been going on from your perspective. How U feel emotionally how works compounding your stress & how if U could help it, you'd simply get your head down and get on with the job. Also state the obvious make it clear that they've obviously been keeping a log/diary on you and are demonstrating that they are and have done all they can when it's not entirely the truth and how, despite being unwell that u are not either over reactive nor over sensitive - it is what it is & they are trying their upmost to show they are extreamly supportive on every level , when thats not exactly the truth and basically this is why your health continues to deteriorate at the moment.
:flowers:
You shouldn't get any of the horrible side effects with Pregabalin, it makes you a bit clumsy, blurred vision and brain fog at first, but that soon eases up, you have nothing to loose and an awful lot to gain, and while you are off work would be the best time to start. As everyone else had said, listen to your inner self about making decisions regarding your immediate future. You are so very strong Catherine and I am know you can get through this. Don't listen to anyone else, do what you feel is right for you, and let them sort their own lives out. You are right, no one can understand the fear of anxiety and hyperventilation unless they have suffered.xxxx
Catherine please call ACAS and see what advise they give you. If you do stay off work sick and the doctor has anxiety on your sick note, you will be protected under the 2010 equalities act and your work place will have a duty of care to you. Catherine your health is more important than anything and it sounds to me like you really need a break to get well again. :hugs::hugs::hugs:
Catherine84
30-08-13, 01:34
Thank you everyone. :hugs:
I have been to bed for a few hours, admittedly after drinking made me sleepy enough to manage it. Now I have had time to rest, I need to try and think rationally. I am going to sort myself out. If this means taking more time out of work, so be it. The people advising me at the CAB etc. are not anxiety sufferers - they have not been through this. Everyone here on NMP knows how ill anxiety can make you, and I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that the advice you are all giving me is the right advice. I have hit rock bottom, and I don't want to see how much lower it is possible to go. The time has come to put myself first.
I am sorry for my ranting earlier - I was just in a complete mess and had to get it off my chest somehow. Everyone here has been so supportive, and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate having somewhere to go where people understand the struggles we face, in a world where it can feel like you are so alone at times.
Thank you again,
Catherine x
Sounds as though you are managing to get your head around this awful situation a little better and seeing things more clearly, look after number one Catherine, because no one else will, put you and your needs first and sod everyone else, they are sitting on the side lines, on the outside looking in, you are the one suffering this chronic mental anguish - you can do it, we all have faith in you and your abilities.
I really need someone to reassure me right now.
I have just been to the CAB and they are pretty much implying I should struggle on, and that giving up will make things easy for work. He also said that it would be a shame to give up a decent job I have been in for nearly 6 years! Also that I should talk to my boss in person, which is making me so anxious. I could barely wash myself this morning as my breathing panic has become so bad, I am constantly hyperventilating. I hate not being in control of it and feel like I am losing my sane mind.
I just cannot go on. I feel like I have reached the end of the road. I have just had a breakdown and cannot stop crying. I just want to reach for the kitchen drawer and grab something to end my life. I can't even cope with my breathing, let alone all the stress this is piling on me.
The occupational health nurse rang today, so I told her everything. She just said that my boss is a very approachable person (yeah, right) and she would understand if I voiced my concerns. I could barely face going to the CAB, let alone to work! She also said that my workplace had been very supportive, and done a lot for me. I now feel like I am the one in the wrong! She also asked me how I felt I would be able to carry out my role in the next couple of months, and said if the doctor signed me off again, it wouldn't help anything! She also mentioned my holiday request, and how they wondered why my partner phoned in, and not me. I just said I was in a mess yesterday, and in no fit state to talk to anyone. She just told me to get plenty of rest and forget about work, but to try to come in on Monday. I am struggling with my breathing, let alone getting into work! Every time my mind wanders from it, it goes out of rhythm, I feel like I am being winded, and it seems to stop!
My partner even said 'don't make out you are the only one suffering through all this, because you aren't'.
I just feel like my life isn't worth living any more. I really want someone to tell me things will get better, but it's up to me to beat this crippling anxiety, and I feel like I am fighting a losing battle.
I'm off to get a couple of glasses of wine at 4 in the afternoon.
I probably shouldn’t stick my oar in here but your partner doesn't exactly sound supportive, which you need him to be right now.
Ah so THAT'S why my doctor asked if he could put anxiety on my note... I knew there must be some reason.
I saw a different doctor this week and he put just stress.... ah well...
My workplace LIED on my OH referral and said I had depression and was too depressed to work. I gave them a rocket and pointed out this means they don#t have to answer questions on why people are stressed at work.
Catherine, lots of love and hang in there PLEASE. Do NOT let these Bar stewards make you want to end your life. If all else fails, I am ready to start up a community where we pool our part time jobs/benefits and get a house big enough to live in! We have to do what we need to survive...
XXXXXXX and MAHOOSIVE :hugs: :bighug1:
Hi Catherine
I'm so glad you got some respite through sleep.
I do understand how totally distressing it is when you cannot get a breath.
You have to keep reminding yourself it is only a side effect of too much adrenaline and stupid as it may seem when you struggle for breath. If you could do some form of excercise like walking up and down stairs. This will help dilute the amount of adrenaline in your body.
The reason you feel breathless is because you are shallow breathing your oxygen and co2 balance is all out. Try holding your breath for a count to 7. breathing into a paper bag or cup your hands and breathe in your exhaled breath. Or just really, try to slow breathe.
When you are really breathless, I know this can seem impossible. Just in andout for what ever you can manage, even if its in for one or two and out for one or two. Holding your breath for as long as poss in between. Eventually, I promise, you will be able to breathe in and out for longer.
Occupational nurses have to be a qualified, but not necessarily with mental health qualifications or even understanding. So her attitude is frustrating. There are procedures for reporting sick, and it usually has to be the staff member That does it. So that will be why she commented on that. Don't worry about it. It's just a procedure. And the OT is just being a jobs worth.lol
There is so much pressure in employment. To tick all the boxes. And there are safeguards for workers. Like Annie said
Keep on the sick, until you are able to return to your job. That's what the NHS sick notes are for!!
It can be distressing and frustrating for our family and friends to watch us in such a state 'over nothing'!! If they genuinely do not have the capacity to understand this mental illness, then They get to a stage when they believe the only thing they can do is to tell is to 'pull herself together or to think how our behaviour is affecting them!! (More guilt)
So you have to be strong and assertive and look after YOURSELF.
You can deal with everyone else later, once your mental health is improved.
So, I would stay on the sick
Tell your partner you are not going back to work till your health is improved
Practise deep breathing
Listen to relaxation cd
Take medication as prescribed
Eat well
Excercise in fresh air as often as you are able.
Take care
Catherine84
06-09-13, 19:27
Hello again,
I'm really sorry for posting again, but I am desperate for someone to reassure me.
Basically, my situation has been a lot worse the last few days. I have been consuming two and a half bottles of wine a day (spaced out at a glass every two or three hours, but I had to have two on a couple of occasions last night, as I had left it too long and was shaking and vomiting), because my breathing anxiety has got so bad. It doesn't even work much any more, and when I go to bed at night and sleep it off for a few hours, I cannot stop vomiting and screaming in panic. My heart is racing, and if I let go of just one breath and realise, it sends me into a state. I was in hospital on a drip two days ago to get some hydration back into me (just a day admission), but they said my stats were fine and released me. I don't even feel with it now - I feel the only reason I am coherent is because I have alcohol in me to relax me.
I have been to a rehab facility, and they pretty much said I should taper off gradually, and gave me a drink diary to make sure I don't increase the amount any more. I just want some reassurance I am going to be ok, as I am worried I have poisoned myself, and it is sending me into a state of extreme panic. I have also read about delirium tremens, amongst other things.
X
Ohhhh no just seen your online and posted under this thread gonna read your latest post and get back to u Hun X
---------- Post added at 20:35 ---------- Previous post was at 20:21 ----------
Oohhh dear sweetie, this is awful. The drink does have to be reduced but better said than done, we all need a vice & comfort from something when times are bad. But drinking like this will as u know in the long run, make your life a misery & will be another big issue, to tackle. U really do need to get a handle on this before you can tackle the anxiety. I'm not sure how other than taking the advice aready given by the professional what u can do? Perhaps replacing at least 1 glass of wine with a strong coffee or a displacement activity???
As for being poisoned, no darling surely hospital would have kept u longer I think your just feeling really rough from overdoing the alcohol & being in a high state of anxiety.
Hows work??? Just wondering if that's made your situation ever more worse???
xvolatileheart
06-09-13, 22:01
I'm so, so sorry you're going through this. I know how awful the anxiety feels and how getting through work is a living hell. I feel like I'm teetering just above rock bottom. We are obviously high achieving women that put a lot of pressure on ourselves (and feel it from others, too) and it can feel so suffocating. I work in a hospital and everyday I have to stop myself from running down to A&E screaming SOMEONE HELP ME, I can't take this anymore!
Have you tried the pregablin? You really should try medication and therapy to see if you can get this under control. Alcohol is a quick fix but only creates a bigger problem to tackle so please try to taper this down!
Just wondering, did your doctor say why you were prescribed pregabalin straight off? Usually they try an SSRI first, but I've heard great things about pregabalin so I wonder how you got your hands on it.
You're not alone. Please don't give up, there are options for helping you get better. :hugs:
I would try the medication Catherine, what have you got to loose, I believe it works on the same receptors in the brain as alcohol. Hope you are a little better today, I am here if you want to off load.x
How's everything Cathrine ?
Catherine84
17-09-13, 12:14
Hello,
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. The last two weeks have been a blur. To cut a long story short, my drinking spiralled out of control, and I had to go into hospital for help to get off the alcohol. I had to be admitted, as my resting heart rate was 150 at one point, and they said that my heart could not take much more. That, and I was drenched in sweat and my breathing was rapid and shallow.
I have had the most hellish time, but I have now been dry for the past week, so I suppose I can count that as something. I am not sure if it is normal to feel this weak and unwell though, which has convinced me there is something wrong.
I have decided I am going to try the Pregabalin, as I never want to go through this again.
Thank you for your kind messages. Xx
Aww, Well done Catherine, give it a go!
xvolatileheart
18-09-13, 13:03
I'm glad to hear you got help. Things can really only go up from here. Wishing you lots of luck! Let us know how to medication goes. :hugs:
I just want to second the previous two posts. I really hope the medication works well for you and that things improve in general for you from now on.
Catherine84
01-10-13, 21:33
Thank you for your kind words everyone.
A brief update: I went to see a psychiatrist (GP referral) last Thursday, and he has a different opinion as to what medication I should be on. He seems to think I should try yet another antidepressant (Venlafaxine/Effexor), and if that doesn't work, take the Pregabalin. During our consultation, he pretty much opened a book and studied it for some time before selecting a drug to prescribe. I have been told to hold off on taking anything until I have had an ECG done, as it can apparently cause heart rhythm disturbances in certain people (I get ectopic beats and I have high blood pressure). It is just frustrating, as I don't seem to be getting any clear answers. I am dreading going on it, as I have only been eating properly for the last two weeks and don't want to go off my food again and end up as weak as I was. I have made a substantial improvement pyschologically since I came out of hospital - my anxiety is still severe, but I am not having complete breakdowns any more. I have also managed to cut back on the alcohol, but I am finding it hard, and I worry I will go back there. I just have to try and ask myself, when I am craving it, do I really want to go through that hell and another hospital stay again? It doesn't help that the alcohol treatment service have said there is nothing more they can do for me, as they claimed that I was drinking to help with the anxiety, rather than the alcohol being the primary problem. I just hope that my willpower holds out.
Unfortunately, the situation with work is no better. I had a call from my boss about a week after coming out of hospital, which was very probing, and I basically was told off for not adequately staying in touch, and how it was 'my responsibility'. I am also being hauled in for a work meeting next Monday to discuss a 'path forward' - Occupational Health and HR will be present.
I almost don't care any more - I am just desperate to get better.
I am going to post my experience of yesterday, because I hope it will be helpful. This is an email I sent to my family.
I arrived early, having arranged to meet the Scarlet Pimpernel (Bill - the Uncontactable Union Guy) there. I waited for quite a while, feeling pretty grim but concentrating on breathing deeply and reminding myself that, as Bill had said, this was more like a doctor's visit than anything else. He emerged from the Nurse's part of the building, which I wasn't expecting, so it took me a moment to realise it was him, and liked him immediately. He looks like an elderly hippy or a - tall - retired Hobbit.
After the initial greetings, we talked about my situation, I told him I had severe palpitations going on but that in my head I wasn't scared, just in my body. I could tell the minute I woke up that I was going to cry, so I had my bag stuffed full of tissues. We discussed tactics... to my great relief he is 100% with me on Not Being Gagged. He was helpful about explaining what to expect over the next few months, and to cut a very long story short, it will be this:
He and I will meet again before the Grievance hearing (which I keep reminding myself is the one THEY should be nervous about, not me. I will need reminding of this!)
He is going to raise various things, such as my pay still being illegally docked, me being stripped of a pay point I am entitled to, and them informing OH that I am severely depressed when my GP has a record of telling me I am not. We are not going to tell them I don't ever want to set foot in the door again. I am not making anything easier for them. He also told me that HR have not been entirely truthful about the number of times he has tried to set up meetings. I am not surprised, although they almost had me fooled.
Yada yada...
Then there will be a series of 'review meetings' - after the first of these I will receive a Formal Written Warning (about my attendance I think) and will be on the path to Dismissal. This will take about 6 months. He has different teachers on his books at every stage of this - eg a woman two meetings ahead of me in a very similar situation. I go down to half pay we THINK in November, need to check that. I know I have an Income Protection Policy somewhere in my portfolio so I shall look that out when I am feeling better.
Eventually (summer sometime) I shall be dismissed. At which point they have to pay me three months' full pay.
We discussed the tribunal option - which I still don't really feel is very 'me' - and he told me (which seemed eminently sensible) that he doesn't generally recommend it, the emotional toll being far more than is recompensed by whatever paltry sum is awarded. Anyway for me it was about exposing them, and if I haven't signed a gagging clause I can do that to my heart's content. I observed many years ago that divorced couples who nurture hate are actually trapping themselves in a lifelong relationship, where they are constantly on each other's minds. I'm not that kind of person and I don't want to become that way. I am still Christian enough at heart to believe that forgiveness and compassion are the way forward in most situations. Later, obviously!
Just then, my doctor rang about my sick note, and when I told him where I was he immediately said, "Oh let's start giving you 2 month sick notes to save you a bit of hassle." I am truly blessed with my doctor.
Kim - the OH nurse - came to fetch us, and I also instantly liked her. She was one of those people with blurred edges (I am desperately hoping that makes sense to you as it just spilled onto the page!) - shoulder length, wispy grey hair, cuddly kind of figure and very kind and twinkly, piercingly intelligent, eyes.
We went into her room and sat down (as you do!) and she said, "Ok - what brings you here?" I asked if she meant physical health and she said, "Everything." So I began with a very polite and potted version of school background, then hesitated, and she said, "Yes - I have an idea about Beech Hill - but what is going on for YOU? Where is Gillian up to?" (It says a lot for her kind demeanour that Gillian didn#t feel like my Naughty Name. For some reason, every Gill I know has a horror of it! lol)
I said, "Well, I suppose it all began back in April..." and gave her a quick picture of how stressed I was feeling, and why (she was rolling her eyes by now, and I noticed she was actually having to suppress a physical reaction every time I mentioned Janice the Head - honestly!) and then went onto the horrible Day of the Car Park Sobbing. I couldn't speak for a moment, and then I whispered, "It feels as though I have Post Traumatic Stress," and began crying. I said, "I knew I was going to cry - I don't mind if you don't!" at which she pushed a box of tissues over and said, "Why do you think I have these?"
So we went through it all, and she asked various questions and jotted things down, and then we began discussing the likelihood of my ever returning. Mindful of Bill's advice, I said, "Never say never, but I will find it extremely difficult now French isn't on the timetable." At which she literally gasped in horror.
After a very long discussion punctuated with a little more crying, she talked for a while. She explained that she was required to answer certain questions (she was typing all the time we talked, we kept pausing) but said, "Usually I estimate when somebody is going to get back to work, but I'm not even going to attempt it in your case. It isn't even relevant."
She has given me a copy of my report (I had to sign it as a true record) and said, "Share this with WHOEVER YOU WANT - It's YOUR report."
The only box she has ticked on the front is, UNFIT FOR WORK.
Under comments, she has written:
Ms Ashtons health condition is slowly improving with the assistance of her GP with appropriate medication and is due to commence Talking Therapies via Care First shortly. The issues are attributed to work pressures in relations to teaching her non specialist subject. I understand that her union is also involved in looking to resolve these together with a grievance process.
It is my view that until the issues are resolved, a return to work is unlikely and there are no adjustments at this time that would assisst an early return.
With regard to your question about attendance at t formal hearing, it ismy view that at this time, with appropriate extra time if needed and support from a representative, she is fit to attend.
She explained that she almost NEVER says someone is unfit to attend as that delays everything which is not conducive to recovery, but stressed that her form of words meant it would be entirely appropriate for Bill to attend all those meetings on my behalf, which he is happy to do, so I feel my subs are totally worth it now. Especially as he told me he is a retired teacher and gets no money for his Union work, he just gets satisfaction from helping people to get through awful situations. Which now he is finally on the scene does appear to be the case.
So there you are - you know almost as much as me now, except how much better I feel after a cry, I felt totally drained yesterday but I will be better soon.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.