View Full Version : No money to fund nhs treatment for mental illness!
Broken-doll
12-11-13, 23:41
How many of you just out of interest... Been to the doctors on numerous occasions over a panic disorder or other mental illness and have been fobbed off with medication or not taken seriously?? How many of you have been put on waiting lists for cbt/counselling and had to wait literally months for an appointment? I find it quite disgusting that not enough money is invested into mental health when it is evidently a massive problem.
I saw on the news today that shopping vouchers are to be awarded to mothers who manage to breast feed their young for six months, that's £200 worth of shopping vouchers to be awarded to each mother as an incentive to breast feed (something every mother should be attempting to do anyway without a cash incentive.) how many cbt appointments would all that cash cover?? Priorities are all wrong!! When will the government start taking mental illness seriously?? Recent statistics show that people who suffer mental illness are 2 and a half times more likely to fall victim to rape,muggings and attacks, yet the majority of us are left to fend for ourselves untreated! So so very wrong! Rant over!!
nomorepanic
12-11-13, 23:44
It all comes down to funding to train a CBT therapist for example and also the other problem is finding staff that actually want to do it as a job. It is like the shortage of nurses - not enough people want to do the job at the end of the day.
Broken-doll
12-11-13, 23:52
There seems to be plenty of private practitioners available. The problem being many people can't afford to pay for private treatment, but when it comes to nhs treatment it's very scarcely funded. X
---------- Post added at 23:52 ---------- Previous post was at 23:49 ----------
What about the government giving the mentally ill "vouchers" to seek treatment from private practitioners whilst their quick to dish out shopping vouchers for breast feeding mothers! Now there's an idea ! X
nomorepanic
13-11-13, 00:00
Ahhh well see if I was a trained therapist I would work privately as well cos the money is far far better!
Broken-doll
13-11-13, 00:03
Perhaps if the government started throwing a bit more money into mental health care it might be more of an incentive for cbt therapists to want to work for them and more people would get the help they need.
The problem is staffing. The vast majority of all problems in the NHS boil down to it.
Not enough Therapists.
Not enough Doctors.
Not enough Nurses.
Hence not enough services to offer.
There is not enough incentive to want to DO the jobs firstly, and secondly (as Nicola said already) those who DO want to do those jobs don't STAY working in the NHS as again.....no incentive.
That boils down to any medical profesional, including therapists.
In all honesty, who can blame them?
Broken-doll
13-11-13, 00:11
The problem doesn't lie with the nhs it lies with government funding! Things need to change, far too many mentally ill people not getting the help they so desperately need.
nomorepanic
13-11-13, 00:21
Things will never change in our lifetime - if anything they will get worse!
Broken-doll
13-11-13, 00:27
I agree! And it's a very sad state of affairs!
Money does not create staff though, so it is not solely about funding.
People have got to have the urge to work in healthcare, and that isn't all about money/wages either when it comes to its attraction.
You can throw all the money in the world at the NHS, but you can't create a member of staff out of a pound note!
People always harp on about funding, but it comes down to the basic facts like staff too. If people don't see health as a viable professional avenue, it is useless having funding.
There are a million and one problems with the NHS, and a million and one reasons why it is so flawed. It will never change in my lifetime, or the next generations.
Broken-doll
13-11-13, 01:53
Like I said earlier though Debs, if you seek a private practitioner , they're not hard to find!and also perhaps if there was more student funding there may be a hell of a lot more people wanting to train within the field.
---------- Post added at 01:53 ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 ----------
Apparently there are over 60,000 Cbt trained practitioners in England, that's a substantial amount. I should be interested to know how many of these work for the nhs !
Gingerspider
13-11-13, 02:55
Well said indeed! I read that story today and couldn't believe my eyes.
---------- Post added at 02:55 ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 ----------
Oh and I was receiving CBT and halfway through my mother had a heart attack and I had to take some time off it (obviously) my lovely therapist as brilliant as she was had no choice but to follow NHS guidelines and take me off the course for missing appointments. I have been told no matter how bad I get, I am not allowed to apply for more for another 2 years. All due to a lack of funding. I might have a child, breastfeed it and then take my £200 quid and use it to pay for some more.
The staffing issue is a downward spiral....working conditions get worse with less staff, making more staff leave healthcare. With mental health patients there is that frustration that therapists face as there is such a high demand for services. The change will take a long time, its the attitude that has to change before the money comes, shame really as I find a lot of people with mental health problems have that life experience to work well in the healthcare profession.
It took me 6 months for the nhs to take me seriously about my mental health,in the end i took a photo of my family to A&E and demanded to see the on duty psychiatrist .I was then submitted to hospital for 8 weeks ! all of this could have been avoided with early help and care.Saying this the care I eventually got was very very good but it did take another 6 months to get cbt
I agree with you completely, and its probably because mostly mental health is an " invisable" condition.
However, we ourselves have to take it seriously. Most of us are willing to pay £40 for a top, or fancy meals and haircuts, but are not so willing to pay that same ammount for an hour of therapy.
Rennie1989
13-11-13, 10:14
Unfortunately there's more to it then lack of staff.
We all know of these targets the NHS has, 4 hour waiting time in A%E and 9 month wait for an operation. Mental health services have NO TARGET, hence why people like me had to wait a ridiculous amount of time for treatment. My doctor refused to refer me to counselling because of the waiting list.
Mental health services receive a very small portion of funding from the NHS. As a result the small funding is aimed more at crisis help than treatment like CBT. And as a result of that doctors feel compelled to give patients medication.
There are PLENTY of counsellors, therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists to meet the burden but the NHS cannot afford them (because of the lack of funding) and therefore go private. It benefits them because the salary is better, the environment is better and they can afford to spend more time with clients because they're not being shouted at by the NHS to get a move on.
Every time I say that the government are shooting themselves in the foot because people get unwell, they can't get treatment, they get worse and leave work, that costs the economy money because it's one more person out of work and one more person to pay benefits for, and the spiral keeps going. If these services were more available then people would not feel the need to be out work and on benefits, which would save this economy a phenomenal amount.
---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 ----------
T* - we all pay National Insurance though, so why should we? I understand paying for prescriptions and what not, but not for a service that I pay towards every month.
You raise a good issue here and a very important one, No mental illness is not given proper funding partly because it cannot be seen so therefor could be false, similar to the bad back cliche (hard to prove).
Sadly yes there are genuine cases but how many are not genuine? How many are just in it for the cash and have no intention of getting better? I think this is the real problem here, you can't expect tax payers money to fill an ever growing black hole.
The government had to address this problem for sure, but the way they have addressed it is cruel. Sadly it's people who con the system that has made it hard for everyone.
Ian Duncan Smith says those who are genuine have nothing to worry about, but i suppose time will tell.
Broken-doll
13-11-13, 12:04
Just look at the amount of distressed people who use this forum who aren't getting the help they need!! We're having to resort to the internet for help! Dr Google has been of more help to me than the nhs! Just look at the suicide statistics for depression/anxiety sufferers, it's sky high! When, when ,when is mental illness going to be taken seriously ?? I for one am getting sick of bring fobbed off with meds after meds after meds which aggravate my anxiety,I've paid for Cbt (quite ironic considering my anxieties are triggered by my job/financial situation.) and I am now on an endless nhs waiting list for Cbt! Considering the fact my mother suffers from manic depression and phychosis, and the fact that I've started hearing voices , and I'm still not being taken seriously?? What exactly does it take??
Hi, quite agree with you all. I have had 12 sessions of CBT which I believe wasn't bug hay ho. My therapist us a nice person but not a good one. Now I have to stop because I have reached my limit and she says I have to evaluate all the past sessions. What a load of crock. I know that's all they are allowed to give because of funding. I was so ill last year and they said they were going to admit me but they had no room. Again not true. Unless your about to injure yourself they are not interested. The physiatrist was trying hard to get me yo rake melds bug I refused. He smirked at me. I was saying support me and I will get well without meds. I could have throttled him. I have since refused to see him. As for private it's a mine field. If you have the money finding one that has experience is scares. There are no real guidelines. I can train as a therapist get my certificate bug that does not make me a therapist. I'm fed up with it all.
I think its pot luck with any therapist ,i tried two private and they were expensive and rubbish but my NHS one is very good.Doctors love to dish out tablets and get you off their case.Long term support is the only true way to beat this illness from my experience.
Rennie national insurance and tax is just not enough for it all.
I deffinetely think priorities should be sorted out, they need to stop masking over the cracks and trying to make our towns "beautiful" and start sorting and helping the people that actually live there.
Also there are a lot of support groups around, its not one on one, but can deffinetely help while your waiting for that support. Most of them are charities yhan run on donations so super cheap too, and another added benefit is that you can meet people im simular situations who will also further support you. Its not for everyone but worth a think. There also lots of mindfullness meditation groups that are aimed at anxiety that are around £3 a session.
Rennie1989
13-11-13, 14:19
I'm aware it's not enough, but when internationals and 'health tourists' are receiving free health care and spongers receive benefits that they are not entitled to which are worth more then my annual income it frustrates me. That money would help fund mental health services, stop the closures of A&E departments, fund the police and fire services and much more.
That's why I donate money and support Rethink. When I suffered a crisis a mental health nurse pointed me and my mum to their direction and they offered us a lot of support and information. Without that we'd feel lost and abandoned, especially when my treatment from the NHS was atrocious. But we have to remember that many people with serious mental illnesses may not be in work (because of their illness) or do not have a disposable income. I was referred to private counselling by my GP when I didn't have two pennies to rub together. If I could receive quick treatment for my back problem, get the x-rays and other examinations that I needed and see the necessary doctors when I needed to see them why should I have to fight to my last breath to get basic CBT and be forced to take medication which greatly affected my health, because the doctor didn't want to do anything else?
That's why I resort to self-help. Eat better, sleep better, play as hard as you work, do free CBT courses online, speak to the Samaritans when you need to, take herbal remedies and much more. Groups like this are a fantastic source of information and support which is valuable to everyone of us.
Like I said earlier though Debs, if you seek a private practitioner , they're not hard to find!and also perhaps if there was more student funding there may be a hell of a lot more people wanting to train within the field.
---------- Post added at 01:53 ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 ----------
Apparently there are over 60,000 Cbt trained practitioners in England, that's a substantial amount. I should be interested to know how many of these work for the nhs !
...and as I said Broken-doll, creating more places out of money does NOT make nursing/health professions automatically attractive as a career.
It is not solely about available funded University courses. It is about what people see in the media about working in the NHS, the conditions they think they may face, the pressures of the job due to 'too many patients, not enough staff'....this is what cannot be addressed by money, and what sends them off on another career path, and this is also what sends off the numerous practitioners very rapidly into the private sector, once they see what they have to deal with in the NHS!
I spent 12 years working in the NHS, some as staff, some as agency staff. As agency I did the odd shift in the private sector, and it is like another beautiful planet compared to an NHS ward, predominantly because there were tons of staff and far less patients, so as opposed to having 8 -10 patients to care for, I had 2. The only way people will want to train and want to stay in the NHS is by changing the way it functions from the ground up, starting with way, way more staff, but I don't see how that can ever change as it is a vicious cycle.
Rennie, your on about foreigners coming in getting free health care and so called spongers dipping their hands in the pot, then you say this money should go to help people with mental health issues instead.
Sorry to say this but there will be people with mental health issues who are just faking it for what they can get, sorry that is fact. Why do you think the government has clamped down so hard and made tests much harder, you should read the figures on mental health benefits in the past few years the way it's gone up and up.
Yes there are plenty of genuine cases out there but sadly there are lots of frauds as well, I agree what is happening to people now is awful, but i think it's needed somewhat, but yes it needs to be fairer and not so harsh. After all when people are taking their own lives out of fear of what the future holds something is wrong.
I agree with you rennie, it really frustrates me too, and I couldnt even dream of paying for private therapy, ive been let down by the nhs on so many occassions, even with illnesses seperate from mental health, I dont trust them because I know they dont really care, its just a job to most of them.
A lot of people often feel hopeless and give up when the nhs refuse to help them, I know I did, but then I just thought screw them, this is my life and I wont just sit and be a number on a waiting list for the rest of my life. So I researched stuff in my area, and go to meditation and yoga classes specifically aimed at anxiety, I havent been to a group therapy session yet, but im working on that. I obviously still feel like I havent sorted the route cause of most of my problems but hopefully one day ill get to do that. What is the online cbt course you mentioned? Its a pain in the arse that so many people have been let down by nhs, but there is hope elsewhere, this site is a perfect example.
Rennie1989
13-11-13, 16:20
Vicki - I meant that money should go towards mental health services and other services in the country who are experiencing cuts, like hospitals, police and fire services. I am fully aware that people will and do fake mental health problems for the sake of not working for their dollar, but considering how difficult it is for people with genuine mental health problems to get recognition and benefit support I can imagine it does not happen often.
I also agree that these benefit systems had to be made tougher to stop these people defrauding the system. But the current system to assessing those with health problems discriminates those with mental health problems and has been deemed illegal by the courts. Mental health charities are working hard for the assessments to be fairer to those with mental health problems.
As for the stats, there are a whole bunch of reasons why they have gone up. Could be better recognition of mental health problems, life factors that contribute to the development of a debilitating mental health problem (like redundancy from the recession) and more. You cannot purely put that down to fraudulent claims.
T* - I couldn't give you a website that I know of, I've only heard from others. Maybe check out the Therapy and CBT forums?
WOW! IM DUE ON 19th AND LIVE IN SOUTH YORKSHIRE & WILL 100% BREASTFEED
BUT ...... I've also suffered with GAD due to a breakdown and what I class as acute panic attacks for 2 years.
Now my decision to BF my third baby is nothing to do with the money incentive and I like a few on here was shocked to descover this new government incentive. WHAT do I think...... Discusting really!!! Breastfeeding is a choice and the alternative is the bottle. I think it's a form of bribery tbh, also how are practitioners going to know 100% that an individual is exclusively breastfeeding?? Bit of a joke really. So as mentioned about the mental health fakers, how do we know some won't fake telling their practitioner that they're BF when they NOT??? How can they really vet something like this? Unless, they sit there & watch U.
As for the nursing profession NOT being appealing IM SORRY I disagree. Call me jealous BUT my degree biomedical science - I owe 20K for. Whilst my cousin and another family member & my mums step son have joined the NHS nursing profession in the past 5 years and basically said collectively - they get a free degree, guaranteed work £20K salary after qualifying - so win win!!! My mums step son says he'll be on 40K soon enough and boasts about it. ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!! Thats the appeal with nursing and allied nursing professions at the moment. When I went back to college to take biology and chemistry - it was essentially OpenCollegeNetwork for health care and most in the course were doing it to become nurses.
And again and again - people would say free degree , a profession and 20K basic salary. People do anything for money, sometimes.
Back on point - it is very sad there isn't enough being done for those of us suffeing some form of mental health issue. Maybe it's more than just ploughing money into CBT/ therapists and money could go into more local support groups or home support workers who u could get out and have a coffee with for an hour?
Ps that's probably why the compassion has gone out of the window RE:nurses (some) - all about the $
Rennie you raise some good points there and i agree, but part of the reason there was so many people jumping on the welfare through mental health is because maybe it was to easy. On the other hand like you say it maybe was also partly down to the fast and harsh way of life now.
Bottom line i think is there is/was far to many with their paws out expecting a free ride, but then we have the likes of MPs who are also good at this with their expenses etc.
Oh and I was receiving CBT and halfway through my mother had a heart attack and I had to take some time off it (obviously) my lovely therapist as brilliant as she was had no choice but to follow NHS guidelines and take me off the course for missing appointments. I have been told no matter how bad I get, I am not allowed to apply for more for another 2 years. All due to a lack of funding. I might have a child, breastfeed it and then take my £200 quid and use it to pay for some more.
I might do this - seriously:roflmao::roflmao:
Rennie1989
13-11-13, 16:50
I agree with Col. I was once a student nurse and I met a lot of enthusiastic students. Although adult nursing is easier to get into midwifery, child/mental/learning disability nursing are all very competitive to get into, that goes to show that people want to work in these professions. The NHS is an attractive industry to work for, good salary, career progression, ability to move to different wards/sectors and a good pension. Once I'm a qualified counsellor I will be working for the NHS, for those reasons.
theharvestmouse
13-11-13, 16:51
My private therapist costs £85 for 45 mins, I'm having therapy on the NHS as well. I don't even know if its helping this time.
It's the same old cliche i'm afraid you can be as well as you can afford to be. If your short of funds the future isn't so bright. Treatments on the NHS are often out-dated and the waiting lists for what they offer is not just months but for some years.
harasgenster
13-11-13, 17:40
Yeah, I've had several GPs apologise to me actually! It was identified years ago that pills weren't the answer for me so I didn't take them but when I had breakdowns I just got a very sheepish GP apologising profusely and saying they would put me on the waiting list but they could only offer antidepressants to try and get me through it while I waited.
I think the referral system could probably also be improved. For a few years I was stuck on a waiting list having initial assessments with a handful of therapists that apologised they were not trained to help with my particular needs and refer me to someone else.
I think it's a situation everybody involved is very frustrated with. Perhaps some kind of triage immediately to identify what the best treatment for each person would be and so that people are put on the right waiting lists for the right therapists? Again, you run into the short-staffed problem there, though.
Channibear
14-11-13, 18:54
I've had to save up for private health. The NHS is just too risky sometimes, imo.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.