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Hi All,
In June, I was in the pits. I felt miserable daily, I felt guilty that I was basically ignoring my family, I felt angry that I had just started a new dream job and was wasting my chance. I felt depressed and all about my health.
I remember it well, going to the GP and bursting into tears and telling him that I was losing the plot and needed help. Now to give you a visual of this image, I am 6ft 4 tall, 16.5st and have a little less hair than I once did. I wouldn't look terribly out of place as a prop forward. But I was on my knees, couldnt see a way out.
My GP gave me meds, they didnt really help and i just felt worse that now, my option of help had also failed. Right at that moment i would have quite happily driven off into the countryside, gone to sleep and never have woken up again. I couldnt see the point in living like that.
I spent literally hours and hours surfing the internet connecting my 'symptoms' to neurological conditions, cancers and other things. I had a kidney anxiety (come on everyone is entitled to a wee thread). I even developed an obsession with wonky sized testicles!! That one makes me cringe!
I then resorted to this forum, a ready made zone of people who experience what i do and when I experienced a symptom, I could post about it and several people would tell me it was nothing to worry about. Exactly what I was looking for.
Did it help? Did it heck!
I needed a plan, I desperately needed a plan. This wasnt the way I saw my life going. I have two children under 7 a great wife, fab job and live in one of the most beautiful parts of the UK. What reason do I have to feel miserable?
I realised one day that posting symptoms on here was an exercise in complete futility. All that happens is another symptom emerges, then another and another.
I had an epiphany at that moment that if I wanted to get better that I had to focus in the right areas. I had to work on my thoughts, my reactions and focus on how I want my life to be. I think it is Honeylove or Andria who talk about the fear of not living being far greater than the fear of dying. This for me is so important.
I am also motivated by Katie's thread on parents with HA. I dont want my kids to be anxious I want my kids to be confident, outgoing and wonderful people. Everything I know that I can be when I am not riddled with anxiety.
There is a stickied thread at the top of this page that says 'Please don't ask for medical advice'. Yet that is precisely what 90% of threade are about on this forum and why there are always 500+ people viewing it and searching it at any given moment. I know because that was me! The problem is that people respond and perpetuate the problem, under a guise of helping and being supportive and I am quite sure this is meant in the most sincere of ways. But the harsh reality is that it just perpetuates the problem, keeps people locked in a cycle of reassurance seeking and gives somewhere for people to hide from tackling the real issue that is recovery from anxiety.
What is funny (in a not ha ha way) is that most people open their posts with 'I know I have HA but..........' There are very very few people who open by saying, 'I know I have HA can someone help me with that'. As far as I can make out that is about the only thing anyone here is qualified to help with :) (I can help with healthcare commissioning if that is helpful to anyone :yesyes:)
Sorry for the long and rambly post, but I just feel so passionately about how low people feel when they are in the pits of HA and that in order to get better people's focus, and in my opinion the focus of this forum needs to change, otherwise it just becomes a den of mutual anxiety and negative counselling.
Hope that isnt too contentious.
Chris
Wonderfully put, Chris. We will all be better, quicker, with a pla. Reassurance seeking is never helpful. I should know, as I've tried it often.
Hi Chris,
Great post... I completely understand where your coming from, I think my issue and many others is that we don't believe our symptoms are from HA hence why we ask for reassurance.
I know I suffer with HA I know what symptoms do come from this anxiety as they come on in certain situations like when I am out with friends, I can say ok this is anxiety, however when we get a new symptom it turns into 'what if this time' 'what if this is different' and this is the hardest part of HA and one I can't seem to tackle..
Not sure if the above makes sense but I liked your post and it has helped to open my eyes :)
Excellent post Chris,
Imagine if you will, one who doesn't suffer from HA coming across this site. I had been part of a couple of oral cancer forums, even moderating on one. That was my first exposure to severe HA. There are a couple of people in my life (friends) who I believe suffer from anxiety but not to this degree (or at least I don't see it). On the forums, there were several posters who obviously suffered from HA. Some to the point of which I see here.
So I came here in search of more information. Reading the posts and information here and studying medical journal postings and other articles has given me a good sense of this affliction. Having had and experienced some of the illnesses and fears so many here face, I stayed and posted my experiences and thoughts in the hopes it may help others. In doing so, it benefited me in that it took my mind off my own health issues and gave my experiences, as awful as they were, a positive spin in knowing they may actually help others realize they don't suffer from them...if even for a moment.
On the other hand, there are times I feel helpless and sad reading how this has affected some. To my rational mind (that can be debated ~lol~), some of the posts and fears are so outrageous that I can't imagine ever fearing what some fear (poo threads for example). It's actually exhausting and if I feel exhausted, I can only imagine how those suffering must feel. To spend the vast majority of your day Googling and drowning in worry not only must be mentally debilitating but affect you physically more than you realize. I do understand what it's like to worry. I've done my share with what I have to deal with but I don't suffer from HA and can tune it out quite effectively. I have and currently am dealing with some depression due to my illnesses. More like PTSD but nonetheless. However, I recognize it and I'm seeking help.
I agree that the majority of posts are seeking reassurance or diagnosis. Rarely are the posts on dealing with HA or treatment related issues and they really should be. One only need look at the posting history to see the pattern of HA.
There has been a minor shift in the tone of the boards with posters like Skippy, Kate and Andria as well as you Chris and Tanner and others (forgive me of I don't recall everyone) getting help and getting better but they get frustrated and take their leave in an effort to not get dragged down again. From an outside perspective I understand exactly why.
There's only so much pussy footing around one can do in an effort to be politically correct and exhibit compassion and caring but sometimes a cyber slap upside the head is needed and warranted to wake someone up. If it insults them then so be it. One must be true to themselves when posting and replying. I've been accused of that but I offer no apologies. The worst that can happen is I get a cyber slap on the wrist or be told to leave. If that happens, so be it but I'll offer my experiences and opinions in the hopes they help.
No one should suffer as I see the suffering here, especially when there's no real reason for it. I would venture to say that 98% of the maladies and fears I read about are unwarranted and a figment of the mind. There is an illness and the illness is mental. The mind can be sick just as the body can. Why is that so hard to accept?
The thing is, most here preface their posts by saying "My anxiety is really getting to me"... if you know it's anxiety, why are you not treating it? Why are you doing things to prolong and feed it?
Yes, the focus needs to change from reassurance to support. Hopefully those that seek help will stay and help others do the same. That's what people really need.
Positive thoughts
But you must at least suspect that they do fedup otherwise you would be at the GP and not posting on a HA forum.
What you describe are the thought processes that keep us locked in HA and that keep us a prisoner. They are not thought processes that people usually have when they dont suffer HA. They wait until they feel ill and then they go to the GP if it doesnt go away. They dont pick on the first sensation and assume that it is cancer or something equally as drastic.
For me it isnt about tackling the thought process as in many ways that is a reflex reaction. But I know that over time by tackling my reaction to the thought, that I have become bored with it and for whatever reason my brain doesnt classify it as much of a threat any more. I have also rehearsed time and time and time again my nightmare scenario, forced myself to think about it, forced myself to read things that would have been triggers and watched things i would have avoided.
I am not by any means there and it has been the best part of six months hard work, but I do think there is a way.
Thanks Chris. When I am feeling well I can probably say yes those awful symptoms I had today were anxiety but when you feel ill 12 hours out of the day its very difficult to think like that and can be very debilitating.
I've been to the doctor about my symptoms and had a number of tests but as you say its the vicious circle we get stuck in with the 'what if's'
I challenge myself every day and have good and bad days but don't feel like I am making an improvement which is very frustrating...
I understand where you come from and appreciate your views :) I will get there some day and have asked to have some more CBT again from my doctor so am thinking positively about tackling this :)
Best of luck!
Lean on people here too Fedup, there is so much resource. I personally quite enhjoyed CBT in a sadistic way as it really made me look at myself and the way my brain worked in destructive cycles. However what really helped me more than anything and continues to is the peer support on here from people like Fishmanpa, Katie, Tanner, Skippy, Honeylove, Andrea etc.
It is funny though, I really connect with what Fishmanpa says above about people feeling better and drfiting away through not wanting to get dragged back in. I desperately want to support people, hell, I might need support again myself at some point.
A-freaking men!
I've popped back in because I wanted to see if someone who I emailed something very personal that I'm reluctant to go on about on these boards has taken even a tiny bit of the advice given just to see that no, they haven't.
I want to comment on your post Chris before taking my break for real because you and fishmanpa are doing a great job of explaining why it is so hard to stay here when you are trying to recover.
In addition to all said on here, it becomes hard, as someone who still has relapses and would frankly love nothing more than counterproductive reassurance at times to have advice repeatedly ignored. If people think Chris, andria, Skippy, honey, tanner, debs or even me find it any easier than them they are wrong. I've had conversations with some people who primarily post to help others that literally made me teary. They could all be fully justified if they were trapped in the ha cycle but they force themselves to do the very hard bloody work to get better and then try to help people who, I'm sorry, think that they are somehow different.
I won't single anyone out, but my thread about taking a break prompted pm's asking me to tell people whether they had ms - Christ how do I know? I was only just diagnosed myself, not a doctor! And while I hope nobody has it (and I am confident they don't) the implication that people think my illness is terrifying and doom filled enough to ask me like that is a bit saddening when I'm trying to consider it no big deal.
Sorry for the slightly off topic tangent there but I think it's an example of how all consuming ha can be and why it only gets worse if we don't take action ourselves.
This is a great board full of caring and wonderful people. But we only get better if we try.
A-freaking men!
I won't single anyone out, but my thread about taking a break prompted pm's asking me to tell people whether they had ms - Christ how do I know? I was only just diagnosed myself, not a doctor! And while I hope nobody has it (and I am confident they don't) the implication that people think my illness is terrifying and doom filled enough to ask me like that is a bit saddening when I'm trying to consider it no big deal.
That is one of the most abhorrent things I have heard in a while. Whoever did that should take a long hard look at themselves, and fast.
I agree with Kate, in that it can become discouraging when people don't take the advice that is given to them. We have all struggled and will have ups and downs upon occasion. Many of you have been an encouragement to me, and I want to pay that forward. But I will never do that at the expensive of my own recovery.
If Skippy, Kate, HoneyLove, etc... Can do this, so can I. So can YOU! No one will ever reassure me but me. Reassurance lasts 10 minutes while recovery can last a lifetime. We all must come up with a plan and a tool box of coping mechanisms. I found a rough patch of skin on the roof of my mouth today. Two months ago, it would have sent me over the edge. Today, nope. I gave it 5 minutes and then said, the heck with it. I will be fine.
I have enjoyed the last three days immensely, while entirely being out of my comfort zone. But I planned for it, thought about it, shared it and acted out all of my positive strategies.
No one has to suffer. There is far too much support here on this forum. Take it to heart, lean on it, believe it. You can be a success story instead of a victim.
Tanner, given how recently I was that you were posting quite differently to this it is so good to hear you talking in this way. So glad you are feeling positive.
Thanks Chris. I've been through this before so I think I just needed a refresher course. You, Kate, Skippy, Andria, Fishmanpa, have been a tremendous reminder of the power of positive thinking. I always was stubborn so once I set my mind to something and allow my intellect to take over, it's pretty much all good. You just have to trust and make a plan. Reassurance just doesn't work.
Great post Chris, I've been having similar thoughts lately.
My HA was never really as bad as a lot of the folks on here, but this forum was also a big wake up call to my own behaviour - I didn't want to end up like the hundreds of people browsing here just looking for reassurance every day. I wanted to let go of that fear and get my life back. It also showed me the frustrations that the people in my own life must have felt when my HA was at its worst, I'm so glad to have seen that and been willing to change it. The amount of self exploration and development that has come out of it has been remarkable for me.
The cycles of reassurance we see on here are frustrating when you make a real effort to try to get through to people. I've tried to shorten my style and the way I write posts so that I don't waste too much of my own time with posts that are never replied to or replied to but still ignored. The result is often that my posts seem to be taken as harsh or hurtful, when really they're just the result of trying to be clear, firm and straight to the point, no pussyfooting! If you knew me in real life, I'm very warm, understanding and kind, I have lots of patience for people but here I don't want to waste very much time if my advice will be ignored, so I keep a lot of my personality out of it.
I feel that the forum is used in the wrong way by a lot of people, it becomes a kind of crutch for the anxiety instead of a support for working through it. Many people see reassurance as harmless and helpful, rather than the enabling tool it can be. A little reassurance is always needed through tough times, but not to the point where it's obsessively sought out and eventually ignored.
Over the last few months it's been great to see more and more posters wake up out of the cycle and begin helping themselves as well as others. We can help each other through problems that way, instead of leaning on each other to support our anxious behaviour. It's becoming a much more healthily space :)
You've been doing a lot of good here, as well as a lot of good for yourself. What you're doing will help a lot of people, even though sometimes it takes time!
That is a phenomenally good post Honeylove.
Your email was a big kick up the butt for me and I will always be grateful.
Lol I'm glad it was so helpful for you :) I think I will have to write a series of posts for these boards, I have so much information on anxiety and recovery now that I think I could teach a class! ;)
It seems this forum has had a very positive effect on you, and for that alone it feels worth it to come here and try to help others x
It certainly is. I arrived here asking about bubbly pee and will leave with a new understanding of the way my brain works and how I can prevent relapse. I can associate with so many posts on here as I am sure you can and in a perverse sense they make me all the more determined.
It certainly is. I arrived here asking about bubbly pee and will leave with a new understanding of the way my brain works and how I can prevent relapse. I can associate with so many posts on here as I am sure you can and in a perverse sense they make me all the more determined.
I remember that post! ;) I think I responded saying it depends on how much porcelain you hit ~lol~
Positive thoughts
The great news is I have turned a source of anxiety into a personal challenge ;)
As I said in another thread, we all need a wee or poo thread :)
It's been a total transformation for you! And it's been a pleasure to see that happen.
You'll find it offers you a unique perspective to really help people because you truly understand what they're going though.
For me it was logging in one day and seeing that there were literally HUNDREDS of people browsing this forum in particular. It made me realise what I had become, and where my life was heading if I chose to live in fear - and that realisation fitted in well with some personal development work I was doing in my own life. It was an uncomfortable realisation but ultimately a blessing.
Some times NMP is just a good vehicle for
venting your thoughts
Without burdening family/friends/ doctors/psychologists etc.
Asking advice about meds (bearing in mind we all have diff dosages/side effects)
Telling people about successes (no matter how small)
And this gives hope to others, who think they will NEVER get better
Communicating with people with the same condition, that other people might not understand.
It doesn't affect me, but I can see how reading negative posts MIGHT depress someone's mood. But I would say if it happens once to you then DONT read any more posts...simple
Xx
A lot of the posters on this thread have helped me turn my life around, so whilst you all seem to be together I just want to say thank you :D
Some times NMP is just a good vehicle for
venting your thoughts
Without burdening family/friends/ doctors/psychologists etc.
Asking advice about meds (bearing in mind we all have diff dosages/side effects)
Telling people about successes (no matter how small)
And this gives hope to others, who think they will NEVER get better
Communicating with people with the same condition, that other people might not understand.
It doesn't affect me, but I can see how reading negative posts MIGHT depress someone's mood. But I would say if it happens once to you then DONT read any more posts...simple
Xx
I get what you are saying but I dont think that it is less a case of having less negative threads as fundamentally if people were happy then in the main they wouldn't be here. But what I mean is threads that focus on what we can help with, recovering from health anxiety.
With the best will in the world, if someone posts saying 'I have a headache, is it a brain tumour?' It just leads to a host of people saying they too have headaches and it isn't a brain tumour. That might be temporarily reassuring for the person asking the question, but the two issues for me are that it is always always temporary, and secondly we have no idea over the Internet what symptoms someone is experiencing and therefore the best place if people are genuinely worried is their GP.
One thing I've done here is to look at the history of the poster before replying. There is definitely a pattern and main fear that will often repeat. For example the heart attack fear. Some have a history of this fear for a year or more. One can safely assume there is no heart attack as the person would be too ill to post or pretty ill after a year if it were really heart disease or issues. Even so, saying that does nothing to quell the fear and no amount of reassurance will change that. Also having had a two of them, I have a little experience in that area ;)
The same goes for many of the fears. If one was really that ill, they wouldn't be posting about it on a HA forum. That's not to say it can't happen but I'd be safe to say the majority are anxiety based symptoms when taking into account the history.
That being said, this is not a place for diagnosis and none of us are medical professionals. We can only recount our experience.
Positive thoughts
I think when, due to anxiety, we first fear eg the heart attack, not being able to breathe, or the fight or flight feeling. Never having experienced it before, we genuinely fear for our health.
After a dozen or so experiences, and after visiting the doctor/hospital
and given the all clear and the anxiety diagnosis.
AND
when our logical brain tells us there is NO ACTUAL threat,
but when our bodies or minds continue to react to stress... IT IS SO REAL.
I think we DO need continual reassurance.
It is an individual thing in how long it takes before we accept this reassurance.
Also the unfortunate thing about anxiety is, it can mascarade it's symptoms in every system of the body.
I know i am in reasonable health
But I have lots of body anxiety symptoms.
And even after 30 years if this
When I am in midst of a major panic attack, I keep saying a mantra to myself
"It's only adrenaline, it's only adrenaline
Your not going mad, your not going to die!!
But it still seems VERY real to me at that point.
I have never given up the search for a "cure"
But even so I know it is
Deep breathing, avoid stressors
Medication if required
And.....acceotance
May I post this.
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/index.cfm
MyCBT councillor recommended it and one who suffers with one particular form of HA for over thirty years I am very slowly getting to grips with it,but it's not easy .
Thoughts and facts have to be seperated.That is the key.
I found this forum a few years ago when I was really very ill with anxiety. It had been triggered by changes in my personal life but I was a long-term anxiety, depression and HA sufferer anyway. I'd used another similar forum but there were constant arguments and it hacked me off.
One of the things that I realised very quickly was I'm a fairly high-functioning anxious person, as I've only very rarely lost any time off work. This immediately made me very grateful for what I've got! I also knew about the reassurance cycles as I'd done all that years ago (before the internet). However, this didn't stop the anxiety, but as I internalise everything it really wasn't noticeable to many other people.
I think the main thing I've got out of this forum is being able to give bits of advice to other people, particularly those with work-related problems as I'm a trade union rep and it makes me feel better if I can do something useful.
However, I do realise that anxiety is a changing condition and can return. I'm fairly well-maintained at the moment and have quite a lot of CBT, which I have found very helpful. But, I know anxiety/depression are part of my nature and I've just had to learn to accept that, that there is no magic cure, but there are lots of coping strategies and management techniques.
So, I carry on with fingers crossed, and pop in here from time to time.
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