View Full Version : Alcohol withdrawal - so scared
Catherine84
03-12-13, 10:35
To cut a long story short, I have had an incredibly bad week with my breathing awareness to the point where every breath sends me into a panic attack. This is unrelenting and goes on 24/7. To deal with this, I have turned back to alcohol, and I'm now back to my old habit of two bottles of wine a day, spread out over the day. This has been going on for nearly a week now, but I was drinking daily before that - one glass of cider a night before bed on a weekday, but more on weekends. I had a period in September of about 3 weeks where I didn't drink after hospital admission and after that, it was relatively under control until about halfway through November.
I have read that alcohol withdrawal can be fatal, and due to my anxiety, I am now extremely concerned. I also feel like I am losing my sane mind due to the changes in brain chemistry that the alcohol is no doubt causing and I'm constantly worried I'm going to flip out. I am scared senseless of hospitals and don't want to go back there unless it is really necessary. I guess I just wanted some reassurance as soon as possible as I am really, really concerned. I have been sick twice this morning already and my stomach is in knots.
Hi Catherine,
Really sorry to hear what you are going through.
In my experience alcohol and PA's don't mix well and reducing my alcohol intake has certainly improved things dramatically for me. If you can cut down or even stop your drinking I'm pretty sure it would help you. Withdrawal from alcohol can be uncomfortable yes, but nothing to be too concerned about. I've had countless PA's when hungover (and like you felt like I was losing my mind), but that's all they were PA's and they passed eventually like they always do. Perhaps reducing alcohol levels gradually over a few days may be easier.
Good luck
Yorkie
Hi Catherine,
I too suffer from terrible anxiety and self-medicated with alcohol daily for 10 years. On my bad days I could drink a whole bottle of spirits and more.
I ended up with alcohol withdrawal in October (even thought I was still drinking!). I simply went to my doctor, confessed everything and was placed on a short course of medication whilst I stopped drinking. I didn't even miss a day of work (yes remarkably I held down a job through it all).
Have you spoken with your doctor? It may be best to be honest with them. I was convinced I was going to be taken to hospital to detox and I was just sent home with some pills and it was quite easy really. My doctor came up with a long term plan for me dealing with my anxiety including taking an SSRI and getting some counselling.
Certainly from my own experiences as a big drinker though going "cold turkey" without help from the GP is something I'd certainly avoid if you're at all worried.
As a committed drinker, it was the hardest thing ever to admit that my crutch was causing more problems with my anxiety than it ever solved. The odd time since I de-toxed that I've relapsed I've felt truly terrible the day after with anxiety and panic.
To be honest, I thought dealing with the de-tox would be the hardest thing I had to do but in reality it's been far eclipsed with dealing with all the things that caused me to drink in the first place. Looking back I actually enjoyed the de-tox because I felt I was getting control of my life back.
I hope you can find something useful in my experience.
Catherine84
03-12-13, 14:27
Thank you for replying, and for your reassurance.
You are right, Yorkie - each time I haven't had a drink for a few hours, the rebound anxiety gets even worse than previously, and I get stuck in a vicious circle.
Can I just ask an additional question? Is it normal for your liver area to ache (kind of like a stitch that I notice on and off when I cough)? I am worried senseless that I have done some serious damage already and that it is too late :weep:. When I was admitted in September for detox, one of my liver enzymes was elevated (ALT - they didn't say by how much) - I understand this is the first stage of liver disease, which can occur even after a heavy night out, but is reversible if you stop drinking for a few weeks. I guess cirrhosis would show up on the blood tests? I have only been drinking very heavily on and off for the last 10 months, but I know if I don't stop, I am going to die. The strange thing is, I sometimes think I would rather be dead than never be able to switch off from my breathing.
I have tried medication, counselling, CBT - it seems like nothing will cure this 24/7 breathing obsession. I have been off work sick for nearly a year, and have lost all pleasure in life. I cannot even sit and watch the TV or read any more. x
Catherine - do you think that the breathing obsession may have been related to your past alcohol intake? The reason why I ask this is because I believe that many of my OCD thoughts are related to my use of alcohol in the past. I never drank massive amounts, but I did regularly consume around 3, maybe 4 pints of beer a night. Its fairly moderate, but I read that what is fine for someone could cause problems for another. I guess I got into a bit of a vicious circle - I used the alcohol to try and take my mind off my intrusive thoughts and general feelings of depression, but I was wondering whether I was just making things worse. Add to that some SSRI withdrawal and I've pretty much messed my body/brain up. The pull to drink is still strong - I enjoy the feeling of being drunk, but part of me wonders whether abstaining from it for a year would benefit my anxiety and depression.
Hi Catherine,
The pain could be a gallstone, or just plain nerves if you have breathing anxiety.
There is a small chance of dangerous convulsions occurring when detoxing from alcohol. This can easily be controlled by a few days of diazepam while you detox. Most GPs should be able to provide a schedule so you can detox at home. Is there anyone there with you who can keep an eye on you?
If you are worried about your liver, your GP can also get a blood test that will let you know the state of play - hopefully no great damage yet, and all reversible.
Best to be totally honest with the GP - they've heard it all before.
Some panic i go drinking the alcohol as well anger appeared also how to over come this problem
Catherine84
04-12-13, 14:24
Hi everyone,
I've managed to now go for 12 hours without a drink, and I have used this time to replenish my fluid intake. My anxiety and restlessness was dreadful this morning, but has abated a little now.
I haven't had too many withdrawals (no hallucinations, which you should watch for, and I feel with it and not confused. Also, my temperature is normal). What is concerning me is my heart rate - it is a little fast (in the high 90s at rest, but raises to 125bpm on standing!). I noticed it while I was taking a hot shower. I'm guessing a few days' overindulgence could cause this, but it is making me really worried that I am going to go into cardiac arrest or something.
I am staying with my parents, so there is someone with me who can look after me.
Oscar, I have also had this problem - my emotions go all over the place, and I do notice it subsides when I stop drinking for a while. Once you drink above a certain amount, the initial euphoric feeling you experience gives way to anger and paranoia. If your drinking is very heavy like mine, I would definitely cut back (of course, easier said than done!). I would echo the very helpful advice others have given in this thread - if you are worried about stopping abruptly, then taper off or see your GP.
I am starting to wonder whether my mood swings are also a hormonal thing, as my period started today and my mood has improved a little over yesterday. The alcohol almost certainly doesn't help, though.
When I was in acute alcohol withdrawal (the week before I went to the GP) my heart rate was all over the place. I used the "stress test" app on my phone and it was constantly registering 100% which indicated an erratic and fast heart beat. That got me pretty scared. Thankfully on the detox medication and with a plan in place to tackle the anxiety it sorted itself out. It's caused by the drinking.
Once I started to fight the cause of my drinking the anxiety, everything else has clicked into place.
I concur with hanshan, speak to your GP, they're not there to judge but there to help - and having been in your position, it was the best thing I ever did.
Catherine84
05-12-13, 19:20
Emphyrio, I'm sorry, I didn't answer your question yesterday:
To be honest, I wasn't a very big drinker until late 2007, when a 3-month mystery illness left me with the breathing obsession. I then began to drink one small glass of red wine a night on weekdays (admittedly slightly more at the weekend, but not more than the unit equivalent of about two glasses, and was still holding down a job, so the anxiety can't have been as bad as it is now). It has been going on and off for some time since, but only got unbearable in February this year, which resulted in me no longer being able to work. The two antidepressants I have tried so far just made the anxiety worse and worse (and the doctor won't prescribe a long-term course of diazepam, and only 5mg, which didn't even cut through the breathing obsession anxiety, especially when taken alongside the antidepressant in the first couple of weeks). Now, I find the only way I can get to sleep is to knock myself out, with alcohol as my poorly-chosen sedative.
I am just despairing, as I know I am sending myself to a very early grave, and it is not a sustainable solution. I am sure, even though I drank to 'cure' the OCD symptoms with the breathing, it makes it worse with each successive daily binge, and I am trapped in a vicious circle that I don't know how to get out of. It's really getting to the point where I am worried about suicide and I tremble in fear at the thought of waking up every morning.
Emphyrio, I'm sorry, I didn't answer your question yesterday:
To be honest, I wasn't a very big drinker until late 2007, when a 3-month mystery illness left me with the breathing obsession. I then began to drink one small glass of red wine a night on weekdays (admittedly slightly more at the weekend, but not more than the unit equivalent of about two glasses, and was still holding down a job, so the anxiety can't have been as bad as it is now). It has been going on and off for some time since, but only got unbearable in February this year, which resulted in me no longer being able to work. The two antidepressants I have tried so far just made the anxiety worse and worse (and the doctor won't prescribe a long-term course of diazepam, and only 5mg, which didn't even cut through the breathing obsession anxiety, especially when taken alongside the antidepressant in the first couple of weeks). Now, I find the only way I can get to sleep is to knock myself out, with alcohol as my poorly-chosen sedative.
I am just despairing, as I know I am sending myself to a very early grave, and it is not a sustainable solution. I am sure, even though I drank to 'cure' the OCD symptoms with the breathing, it makes it worse with each successive daily binge, and I am trapped in a vicious circle that I don't know how to get out of. It's really getting to the point where I am worried about suicide and I tremble in fear at the thought of waking up every morning.
Thinking of you and wishing you well Catherine.x
I've been in your shoes for sure. Trust me when you think you're in a situation where you think you're dieing it so exacerbates things. You can get better at making the distinction between anxiety and a real problem. If you are able to calm down and the symptoms abade, it's just anxiety. It really helps to recognize how anxiety affects you. I do get the same sort of breathing problems, but I know it is purely mental.
Try to think of things in the reverse. you kind of have to let go when it comes to breathing, you have to realize you're gonna keep breathing no matter what your mind does. If thinking of bad things makes you more anxious and makes you think of more bad things like symptoms, do the reverse, think of good things and even if it's only slight think of how you feel that's good. It takes time, because you have to reverse your thinking.
As hard as it may sound you can reverse it. My breathing as of late has been really good, even with drinking (which I really shouldn't).
Catherine84
15-12-13, 14:00
I am so scared right now.
My drinking is still far from under control - I have cut back a bit, but I am probably still consuming the equivalent of a bottle and a half a day. It is so hard tapering when you feel so unwell all the time.
What doesn't help is that I have read that excessive alcohol consumption over a period of time can cause electrolyte imbalances, which can lead to life threatening heart rhythms and possible cardiac arrest. I am absolutely petrified, especially since I read that 95% of people die and the rest are left with brain damage. What doesn't help is that I suffer from tachycardia and ectopic beats. Reading all of this has me convinced that I am not going to live until Christmas.
I am trying to drink plenty of fluids to avoid dehydration, but I am convinced I am going to die. I am so desperate to stop putting this poison in my body, but I have tried so many things and felt so helpless until it spiralled.
I'm not sure if there is anything else I can do to reduce risk until I can get some help and beat my alcohol addiction and anxiety.
harasgenster
15-12-13, 14:34
I am so scared right now.
My drinking is still far from under control - I have cut back a bit, but I am probably still consuming the equivalent of a bottle and a half a day. It is so hard tapering when you feel so unwell all the time.
What doesn't help is that I have read that excessive alcohol consumption over a period of time can cause electrolyte imbalances, which can lead to life threatening heart rhythms and possible cardiac arrest. I am absolutely petrified, especially since I read that 95% of people die and the rest are left with brain damage. What doesn't help is that I suffer from tachycardia and ectopic beats. Reading all of this has me convinced that I am not going to live until Christmas.
I am trying to drink plenty of fluids to avoid dehydration, but I am convinced I am going to die. I am so desperate to stop putting this poison in my body, but I have tried so many things and felt so helpless until it spiralled.
I'm not sure if there is anything else I can do to reduce risk until I can get some help and beat my alcohol addiction and anxiety.
I'm sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread, but have you told your GP you are struggling to quit drinking? This is the kind of thing you really need some help with, as you're quite right that it could lead to physical problems in the end (it doesn't sound to me like you're in any immediate danger, though, so don't panic!)
There are certain conditions that mean you will be bumped up the waiting list for therapy. I know that if you have diabetes with an eating disorder, for example, you get immediate therapy because obviously that's really dangerous. I imagine the same is true for drinking problems, as that puts you more at risk (of having difficulties at work and home, not just health-wise) than just anxiety alone. When I was having difficulties that were causing a lot of problems, my GP wrote to a psychiatrist saying that she should 'fast track' me, because I could have lost my job.
So you really need to be honest with your GP because they will be able to help you. Not all people with drinking problems want help (at first) so I'm sure they will jump at the chance of someone arriving specifically to ask for help. They will be able to help with medication to get you through detox, as previously mentioned, and they'll be able to get you some "fast-track" therapy - or suggest some groups you could go to - so that you don't need to go through this alone.
If it helps at all, alcoholism - though dangerous - is not going to kill you outright! You seem very worried about your health and I don't think that's helping you to reduce your alcohol intake. My mam used to go out with an alcoholic. He was basically drunk consistently for the 5 or 6 years he was in our lives, and never once had any kind of health problem. It's dangerous, but it's dangerous in the long-term. Don't worry about your physical health right now, you're fine. It's your mental health you need to be focused on.
Good luck
Catherine,
Are you currently taking any medication for your anxiety?
When I started taking citalopram, things did get worse for a couple of weeks but with my drinking getting bad I didn't really see I had any option but to "tough out the medication". If you read some of my posts about citalopram, you can see it's been a journey but I'm pulling through.
If you go and speak to your GP, they'll most likely put you on a home detox with a gentle sedative for a week and then you can look into trying an AD for your anxiety. There's lots to try out there but they sadly are not a magic fix and you have to work with them.
To be honest my de-tox week was one of the best in my life - I felt relaxed and happy. Dealing with my anxiety afterwards has been tough, but with a clear head it's been easier.
I found with my GP, once I'd admitted to my problems and made a plan to get myself fixed, he was much happier prescribing me gentle sedatives to help me out.
Please go and get some help with this from your GP. Tapering off booze is horrible and I've found it never works - I always ended up just drinking more.
Catherine,
Have you considered intervention and/or hospitalization? It doesn't make any sense to worry about electrolyte imbalances or your health in general when you're drinking yourself to death. There are far greater hazards in your behavior than worrying about issues that haven't happened. What if you pass out and leave the stove on? Or, if you smoke, passing out with a lit cigarette?
Your drinking is out of control and you cannot stop it on your own. You say you don't know of anything you can do "until I can get some help". What are you waiting for? Call a help line, walk into a clinic. Do something so you can be helped. These are just words on a screen from an anonymous person but one that hopes you take my advice.
Positive thoughts and good luck.
Fishmanpa - getting hospital inpatient treatment for alcohol problems in this country is difficult unless there is an immediate risk to health. I was convinced I wanted an inpatient detox but simply got given home-detox and treatement with ADs - despite being in quite severe alcohol withdrawal having being drinking 3 times Catherine's amount on some days. It's taken me two months to find some counselling which I've ended up paying a not insignificant amount for. The help is out there though but finding it when you're in trouble is hard!
"until I get some help"... you know you need help but somewhere inside you have to summon up some incredible courage to pick up the phone, walk into the GPs office and take that incredibly big pile of shame with you, stand before the man and publicly admit that it is out of control, that you cannot fix yourself, that you are not functioning correctly. And damn that is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life.
And then you have a journey... you've decided to turn your back on something that has provided so much comfort to you and start walking an untrodden dark path towards the light.
Fishmanpa is right Catherine - pick up the phone and make that call please. Even if you phone Samaritans to build up some courage - they won't judge you. Even if you can't make it work this time please try.
And in writing this I've got a lump in my throat and have gone misty eyed. :bighug1:
Teej,
It's a shame that it's so difficult to get treatment. Where there's a will, there's a way. Here in the US, millions take advantage of a system that's far from perfect. One just needs to look into the ways to do so and there are ways. even when you have to look under rocks to find them.
I agree, it does take an incredible amount of inner fortitude to seek help. It's much easier to reach out anonymously in a forum like this but nonetheless, it's a cry for help and the first step in accepting there is a serious problem. However, there's not much more anyone can do in this medium as we can't reach through the screen and drag Catherine, or anyone for that matter, into an AA meeting or clinic for help.
I hope Catherine as well as all who suffer here take that first big step.
Positive thoughts
Catherine84
15-12-13, 17:54
Thank you everyone for your responses.
I agree, I need to go back to my GP for help. I think that my reluctance was definitely to do with the 'pile of shame' that I am carrying, and feeling like a failure having already been through one detox.
I agree with teej - it is incredibly hard to get treatment in this country. When I was admitted to hospital last time, I was drinking almost twice the amount I am now. I had to go to A & E five times before I was admitted - I was drenched in sweat, high blood pressure and pulse rate of nearly 150. I am convinced that the withdrawals would have killed me without intervention. About a week before I was admitted, I turned up, in a pretty inebriated state, to the local alcohol treatment service to get help. I had an hour long interview and was given lots of literature about support groups, etc. When I was discharged from hospital (not much was done in there apart from monitoring me), I received a letter from them saying there was 'nothing they could do to support me at present', even though I knew there was a risk of relapse, as my anxiety was far from under control. I recently phoned them again (probably about a week ago), and they said I would have to go through the assessment process again, despite the fact my anxiety was so bad, I hadn't left the house for over a fortnight!
I think this time around, people have thought there is not a problem - I am never drunk, just drinking small amounts regularly to 'take the edge off' my breathing OCD. But it's a vicious circle, and one I definitely need to get out of.
A lot of my issues with alcohol and anxiety I believe have come from shame.
Unfortunately it's something my parents built into my personality when I was young and I've come to cement in during later years.
I'm breaking it down slowly at the moment but it's going to be a long healing process.
Good luck with your GP. And remember - they have a hippocratic oath to heal - they're not there to judge. The only person who can judge you is yourself (or God depending on your beliefs). Guessing from your posts - you've already judged yourself. If you're religious - God knows what you're going through.
I've just posted on the general part of the forums to someone suffering a shame incident in a supermarket - same thing that would have me come home looking for the scotch bottle. I realized that one way I've tackled some of my shame is my road cycling and that's what got me into the GP's office!
Catherine84
03-01-14, 14:29
Hi everyone,
To cut things short, I have had a very difficult time the last couple of weeks. I have been unable to see a doctor with the Christmas break and now can't get an appointment until next week, which I am fully intending to do. In the meantime, because of the sheer quantity I'd been drinking, I've found it impossible to cut down to any great degree. In my desperation, I mentioned my drinking to the psychologist I had to see through work (even if it meant the information would get back to them) as I so badly wanted help. She has just said that I should go for more CBT (12 sessions), but between me seeing her and her submitting the report recommending it, the CBT therapist discharged me! Everything is such a mess. It didn't help that I struggled over Christmas and drank more as the temptation was too great with everyone else doing so.
The main problem I have been having the last two days is involuntary movements and muscle tremors. I don't have any of the other 'textbook' symptoms of DTs like fever, blackouts, hallucinations etc., but I have read that it can be the precursor to a seizure. The strange thing is I haven't cut back drastically, as I figured it wouldn't be safe to do so until I can see my doctor next week and hopefully get some medication. I thought withdrawals only happened a while after you stopped drinking if you had only been doing it short term (4-5 weeks). I have a real phobia of hospitals and haven't even left the house for days. Going to the GP next week is going to be a real struggle. I'm just scared it's not safe to wait that long to see her.
It's just impossible to relax when various muscles in your body are twitching and contacting almost every minute. I couldn't sleep for more than a few hours last night. I just want this hell to end. :-(
Hi Catherine84,y you are not alone.Five years ago now I too was a heavy drinker ,drinking Brandy every night of the week to help me sleep,but then in the morning I would get heart palpitations and a terrible bout of Anxiety,this went on for years.Then one day I decided that I was not going to drink any more.It was fine for awhile I found that I could sleep without drink and I felt much better.
Then I had a lot of deaths of loved ones nearly altogether and I nearly went crazy .I went and talked to my doctor and he put me on Citromil 10mg per day an Valium to help me on the bad days.I am now on them 8 weeks and am only feeling the effects now.
Please go and talk to your Doctor again and be honest with him ,you see they can help you ,but at the end of the day its really up to you ,you are the only one who can really help you (this is speaking through experience )you can talk and chat till you are blue in the face to people but you are the one that holds the Key.So have a good chat to yourself and think of all the good things in life and those that love you and you love them.You will find that it is easy when you look back.
There is always someone here to listen.Hope you feel better soon,sending you hugs (we all need them ):hugs:
I'm just scared it's not safe to wait that long to see her.
I'd really try and get an emergency appointment if you can. They'll sort you out so easily and quickly. If you're quick this afternoon maybe they'll get you one?
because of the sheer quantity I'd been drinking
So how much are you drinking? I can put my "been there, done that hat on" possibly then and give you my experiences.
I thought withdrawals only happened a while after you stopped drinking if you had only been doing it short term (4-5 weeks).
I don't understand how it works to be honest. The first time I had withdrawals they began about 24 hours after my last drink and I was on about 2 bottles of wine a day. As I recall I had a fitful night of sleep, my mind raced like no ones business and I think I had convulsions - I don't remember too well. I felt like crap the next day but by the afternoon had recovered. I didn't have any detox medication.
My second time of getting withdrawal I went on a bender, drank 2 litres (maybe more) of spirits over two days. I was a regular drinker before that but never had had drunk anything like this. By the Monday, despite drinking (much less) daily I was still suffering from withdrawl and suffered it for a week despite continuing to drink in the evenings. Eventually I went to the doctor and had a home detox (taking pills) which was so easy.
I know withdrawals do get worse the more times you go through them though.
Again - get yourself some medical help even if you have to sit in your surgery until someone sees you. Once you've done that you can begin to get yourself fixed.
I know it's tough walking in there and admitting it's a problem but you can't put yourself through this any longer. Honestly, you'll feel so much better.
Catherine84
03-01-14, 16:05
Thank you both for taking the time to reply.
teej, to answer your question, I am probably drinking the same as you (about 17 units a day, which works out at a couple of bottles of wine, I'm guessing?). If you don't mind me asking, how long were you drinking the two bottles of wine a day for?
I'm just not sure whether it's serious enough to call 999. I cannot get to the surgery now as I am staying at my parents' house and it is 40 miles away. It's not helped by the fact that the receptionists tend to be very snotty and insist you phone in at 8am for an emergency appointment. How can you predict whether you will have an 'emergency' later in the day? I think they close in an hour. I'm just so scared I am going to die. I could ring 111, but they will most likely tell me to go to A&E and admit me.
mollys, sending lots of hugs your way. I'm sure we are stronger than we think we are and we can both beat this. :hugs:
Catherine,
There's no local surgery you can visit for an emergency appointment at all? They cannot simply refuse you medical treatment. Where I live there is a doctors you can visit at the hospital which is not A&E but it's 24/7.
I am dry at the moment. Following my detox in October.
When I initially de-toxed in 2008 (when I stupidly did it without medication) I'd been drinking heavily for 4 years - many days I must have been far in excess of 17 units a day and drinking all day. It varied hugely over those 4 years. I managed to drop down to 17 units eventually where-upon I went cold turkey.
When I detoxed this October I'd been drinking again probably 17 - 18 units a day but only in the evenings for again about 4 years - but like I said, I'd been on a massive bender the weekend before it all began. With me it's something about day time drinking which makes it so much worse.
From having met many alcoholics along my journey drinking two bottles of wine a day is not the worst alcohol problem anyone has ever had by a mile - I went to AA 2008 and that was eye opening. Now I'm not saying I don't have a problem. I do. I know the damage I've probably done to myself. But knowing that I was not too far gone really helped me to get the courage to move on with things and know that even when I slip (and I have done since October) that it can be easily fixed and that I'm not going to simply end up back where I started.
Please try and get some help. I know how bad alcohol withdrawal is.
T
Catherine84
03-01-14, 17:03
Tried to get an appointment, but the earliest they could give me was next Wednesday. I've taken it, anyway - it's better than nothing. I just wish someone could reassure me I will be OK in the meantime :-(.
We did have a walk-in clinic, but it closed. Now the advice is to go to A&E if you think it is serious enough.
And thank you teej, it's good to hear a positive story from someone who has come out the other side :-).
I have just Googled (bad idea, I know) muscle spasms, and they can also be due to anxiety. I have also just been sick, but I was very panicky. It seems with alcohol withdrawal, you also get sweating, tremor of the hands, pallor, dilated pupils and a whole other host of symptoms. My pulse is 95 sitting down though, which does seem fast. In view of this, I am trying to tell myself it could just be anxiety. It's so annoying, though. When I was in bed this morning, I was having hypnic jerks and could not get back to sleep.
I wish I could calm down :-(.
I've come out the other side twice. I just wish each time I'd gotten help quicker.
It's a real shame that you can't get the medication to detox that you need. I'd certainly try giving NHS non-emergency a call and see what they suggest but the only who can give you the medication for a detox is a doctor.
Last time I called they told me to "keep drinking in moderation and see a doctor". If you think you're in withdrawal don't go cold turkey was the advice.
I'd also look at finding a better doctors surgery too! Our surgery will normally fit people in for emergency appointments morning and evening.
How much do you think any general anxiety and health anxiety might be making you feel worse? I only say because I relapsed Christmas day, was convinced I too was in withdrawal but it turned out I worked myself into a right state and the alcohol was interacting with my medication.
Catherine - I was on the internet looking for something else but somehow came upon this site forum & decided I’d post. Maybe my tale will help you.
6 years ago I started self-medicating with alcohol. I’ve had major problems with panic/anxiety for 25 years and was a “social” drinker (30 units a normal weekday) again for 25 years (chicken/egg?).
In 2007 following a daily succession of horrific/scary panic attacks where I couldn’t breath and thought I was having heart attacks I realised copious amounts of drink got me over them. This was fantastic. Feel breathless/panicky, have 4 pints in 15 minutes and feel better. Then I started pre-empting attacks by drinking before trigger points/situations. Things quickly escalated. I carried alcohol with me at all times & drank 24/7. The least I was drinking was 90 units a day, at weekends 110 units. I couldn’t go an hour without a drink as the anxiety was unbearable. I couldn’t leave the house without panicking. I was really agoraphobic. I regularly needed half a bottle of vodka to get me 1/3 of a mile to the local shop where ironically I was going to buy drink.
I drunk in the car (as a passenger) & on buses/trains because I felt panicky travelling. I drank at tea breaks during work to stop being panicky. I drank if I knew I’d to cross a bridge or be in a high building. The drinking and the withdrawal and drinking to halt withdrawal was fuelling my panic and all my phobias to an extent I’d never experienced. I was getting “stitches” in my right hand side & took about 1200mg of ibuprofen daily to help with the pain. Anxiety caused breathing problems which led to more anxiety………
This really bad time went on for 3 awful years. I didn’t care. Feel panicky > drink > causes panic > drink ……. I was suicidal.
I don’t know why I sought help but I did voluntarily. Something inside me fought back. I went to my GP. With their help I managed to get a place in a NHS de-tox unit. When I feel panicky I need to feel “safe”. Nothing gets me out of a panic attack than being somewhere “safe”. Being seen by medical staff has always been a release. Because of my panic I don’t think I could have de-toxed at home. My thought process about doing it in a hospital was a) hospital = safe b) if I panic because of withdrawal they’ve got doctors/nurses/defibrillators/tablets = safe.
Prior to going into hospital I was taking Sertraline, Zopiclone, Mirtazipine, Pregabalin & diazepam. Stupidly (or perhaps not) I suddenly stopped taking them maybe a month before admission. I presume they never worked because of my alcohol consumption. I know I suffered some withdrawal but alcohol “relieved” this.
I went to hospital on my own. I didn’t tell anyone because of embarrassment & fear of failure. Upon arrival they relieved me of the vodka in water bottles I had as well as my stock of diazepam. This made me really really anxious. No safety net. After they took the first blood test they nearly sent me home because I’d been drinking up to half an hour before admission. It wasn’t the on first test they did but one of my ALT readings was 4532. The acceptable upper limit is about 56. I was scared.
After that it went really well. I didn’t get the anticipated DT’s and I didn’t even mind the vitamin injection in my gluteus maximus. The worst thing was the food. I was really sweaty and sweated buckets but this was partly due I think to the plastic bedding sheets! My withdrawal was controlled & I felt safe. What was the worst that could happen? I’d doctors & nurses on tap. Physically after the first day I didn’t crave a drink & certainly not mentally. 25 years of daily heavy drinking & 3 years of unbelievable daily drinking & I’d stopped just like that.
On my fourth day there, I was asked to go for a liver scan. 3 problems 1) it was at another hospital 6 miles away 2) no staff were available to go with me 3) because I was still ashamed I didn’t want help from family/friends I had to go on my own. Unbelievably I was able to get a bus, attend the appointment and come back, I hadn’t panicked & I hadn’t felt panicky. No shallow breathing. I wasn’t doped up. I don’t think I thought about it & just did it.
After only 4 days! I hadn’t been able to get to the end of my road without panicking & here I was after 3 years of suicidal drinking & crippling anxiety gallivanting about town with no chemical crutches and no problem. I remember getting back to my room in hospital & crying with relief/happiness.
Two days later I was discharged. Over the next fortnight I attended “therapy” which was a blend of alcohol/medical education & sharing experiences with others. The education was really useful. Putting aside the physical/personal/social consequences, understanding how alcohol affects the mental wellbeing was really informative. They should teach that stuff at school. I really began to realise how alcohol caused anxiety rather than relieved it.
I see Gastro-intestinal people every 6 months & have quarterly blood tests. I have scarring on my liver and will need to watch myself. My liver function results are acceptable. I admitted I freaked out at first when I realised what physical damage I was doing to myself, but having more knowledge about how my body works I understand & accept. I’m not overly worried as I know where I’m at. I feel chilled. I reckon a lot of the population are unwittingly killing themselves with drink. At least I’m now fully aware of how alcohol affects the body & mind. The pain in my right hand side disappeared. I was advised that basically this was my liver “complaining” Now I’m alcohol free and my liver is not being abused, no more pain.
That’s been it. In 3 years I haven’t had or felt like a drink, am tablet free for the first time in 25 years & haven’t had a panic attack. I don’t see anyone for mental health issues. I’ve not had any further counselling. I did try AA once while I was in hospital but it wasn’t for me although I know it helps others. Each to their own.
Sure I suffer from anxiety daily & occasionally feel panicky. But I’m in control now. I feel so strong mentally that I’m able to calm myself before things escalate. I do a lot of hillwalking now – despite being agoraphobic! I never would have believed it. I sleep better. Uninterrupted relaxing sleep which leads to a better mental state etc etc. I no longer have anxiety breathing problems. Breathing is necessary & normal. I enjoy it! It means I’m alive.
This may seem like an christian evangelical tale about the demon drink but it isn’t. For one thing I’m an atheist. What I’m trying to say is this: I’ve had a lifetime of problems with anxiety. I’ve been hospitalised in the past for anxiety/panic and resulting physical psychosomatic symptoms. I’ve seen dozens of doctors, nurses, psychiatrists, counsellors. I’ve tried lots of prescribed medication, I’ve tried hypnosis/CBT - you name it I’ve tried it , I know where my anxiety stems from and understand my condition. Yet I’ve never been able to eradicate it. I’m a normal clever guy. I understand how anxiety & panic work but it still happens.
But it’s better now. Alcohol does not alleviate panic - it does not help, it accelerates the condition and can take over and instigate the condition. Alcohol no longer is affecting my brain, it’s not depressing me, it’s not causing anxiety filled hangovers.
IT CAN BE DONE ! Stop drinking & it allows you to work on your real medical issues. I’ve started a new life and got new interests. De-toxing allowed me to challenge my thinking, get on with a new chapter in my life and take charge. IMHO the statistics for safe & successful de-toxing are borne out by my experience.
I hope this helps. You are not alone. Any questions please post.
hethoog - what an amazing first post. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us.
Catherine84
04-01-14, 10:13
Hi hethoog,
I would just like to echo what teej has said - what a helpful and insightful post. Thank you for giving me the belief that there is hope in even the most desperate of situations.
I take it you are medication free as well? My doctor is convinced it is the only way I am ever going to get better, but I am so reluctant to take it in the long term (I appreciate I will most likely need it for detox). They are only willing to prescribe antidepressants, and they always ramp my anxiety up, even when I stuck with them for nearly two months. This only increases my reluctance to try any more. I'm sure most of my depression comes from lack of quality of life due to the anxiety, coupled with the daily drinking.
Edit: My apologies - you said that you are. The doctor actually prescribed me Pregabalin a few months ago, but I was scared to take it.
I was scared for far too long to take medication but it's really helped me. I'm taking citalopram 20mg and have been for more than 2 months now. I still have ups and downs.
In the early days things did get worse but I'm glad I stuck with it.
Catherine84
08-01-14, 14:23
Went to the doctor today and it was a complete waste of time. She didn't give me any medication (in her words, giving me Diazepam would be 'replacing one addiction with another') and just advised me to taper off, despite the fact I told her I'd already been sick twice this morning.
It seems that you must fight to get any help in this country :-(.
Catherine,
Did she offer an explanations to why she chose this response? Did she not think you to be at any risk from the withdrawal?
I'm surprised to say the least at her response.
T
Catherine84
08-01-14, 16:09
Hi teej,
She did suggest that I might be at risk of seizures if I go 'cold turkey', but said that tapering should be safe if I do it very gradually, as I had only been drinking for a few weeks and not years.
I'm still absolutely petrified though, and wondering if I should get a second opinion.
You are right, it does seem to be the daytime drinking that puts you at risk. I never drink so much that I am passed out drunk - just enough to keep the anxiety at bay. Yet, if I go more than a few hours without a drink, I am throwing up and feeling awful.
I know some doctors are not keen on handing out benzodiazepines and if your doctor has assessed the risk and can avoid doing so then they will.
Saying that tapering off alcohol is a skill in itself and does require an iron will and conviction. I've looked before and there are some resources out there and I've done it to an extent myself!
I wouldn't be scared though... a medical professional has essentially said she's not worried. But if you're still scared maybe a second professional opinion would help settle your mind?
Is it dropping the drinking down that's worrying you at the moment? Did she suggest anything like ADs to help you work through the problems?
Catherine84
08-01-14, 16:36
It has been recommended that I start Venlafaxine when I have managed to stop drinking, but I have heard that it's notorious for making your anxiety worse and is really hard to come off. It also raises your blood pressure, and I've had about five different doctors tell me mine is elevated.
At the moment, I'm stuck in a vicious circle, where I have to drink to keep the symptoms at bay, but I'm worried if I have a seizure they won't be able to treat it with Diazepam etc., as I will still have alcohol in my system, and it's potentially deadly to mix the two.
If you don't mind me asking, do you have any links to websites that advise you on the best way to taper? I've only found one so far that advises using beer, but I can't stomach the stuff, and I'm struggling to keep anything down at all at the moment.
You're right - it really does require an iron will, and I'm not the strongest of people - it is so much easier to reach for the bottle when I know it alleviates my symptoms. I have definitely reached the point where enough is enough.
Yes - citalopram has the same problems (which is what I take). It did make my anxiety worse to start with but I reached such a point in my life where I just sat it out. When I finally started to take it, I'd reached such a rock bottom point I didn't care any more. And here I am still standing. :yesyes:
If they couldn't treat people with an alcohol problem for withdrawal and seizures then no one with a problem would ever have stopped drinking - or we'd be dead! How do they deal with people who've been drinking litres of spirits like our friend hethoog above? He's still here to tell his story!
I think the HAMS Harm Reduction is the most notable guide to tapering I've found. Have you considered just watering down the wine until it had the same potency of beer?
Catherine84
08-01-14, 17:28
Thank you, teeg.
I think that I will try your suggestion of watering the wine down. Alternatively, I could try drinking cider, which I think is a little stronger than beer, but much less harsh on my stomach than wine.
I have googled HAMS and it seems like a more realistic way of cutting down my drinking. So many programmes focus on complete abstinence, yet I know this would be hard to achieve at the moment. At least there is less pressure with this method, and it seems more attainable. The hardest thing is the fact that I don't actually want to drink at the moment - I feel physically sick thinking about drinking red wine, and wish I could just stop like that. It's amazing how just a few weeks of heavy drinking can do this to you.
1. You can quit booze safely. Your doctor agrees. I'm not a doctor, you're not a doctor. We have no option to doubt her.
2. Make some long term life goals - we have one life so live it. Me, I'm going to write a mobile app, run my own company and run a marathon.
3. Take steps to realize those dreams: cutting down the drinking... every time you're sitting waiting for the next drink... think about all the people doing what you want to do and realize you can do it too! Watch TV, watch YouTube about the people doing what you want to do and realize this world is full of people who can love and help you achieve your dreams. This is a big exciting world.
4. Get onto the medication. Apply the rest of step 3.
5. Talk to people, learn to control your mind. Counselling and CBT have helped me so much. Counselling for me has been invaluable - just talking has been a revelation.
6. Live each hour, each minute. Another 60 breaths.... and you're still here. In fact you're still here. Look back at your NMP posts... you're still here. And then think of the goals.
7. Find more people who've been through this. We'll happily help.
This worked for me anyway...! You can do so much with your life!
Like I say - this is my individual experience. I really hope it can help you.
Hi hun
After reading your post I hope my experience may help:)
I have suffered with alcohol abuse in the past. I have gone through 2 medical "tapering off" periods and now I can't stand the thought of heavy drinking or hangovers.
It takes strength and help, you can't do it alone hun. There is a great forum I am a member of the support is immense and there is loads of info, especially on alcohol withdrawal and what to expect. Please, please read the info as withdrawal can be dangerous to your system.
Try and not be scared its such a massive achievement to get on top of a alcohol problem.
Jackie cx
The site is soberrecovery.com
Catherine84
09-01-14, 00:17
Thank you, Jackie - come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I have come across the site you mentioned before. I did consider signing up - I think I may just do so. Hopefully it will help speaking to people who have been in the same boat.
I'm glad to hear that you have managed to overcome your struggles with alcohol.
I think that half the battle is being able to distinguish between which symptoms are withdrawal and which are just feeling rough due to overdoing it.
And teej, it is so reassuring to see such a positive attitude - I hope that your words will be able to inspire me. I really want to be able to just get on and live my life - you are right, there is so much that I could be doing, and the drinking, coupled with the anxiety, is severely affecting my quality of life. We only get one shot in this world, and it seems such a waste to be living this way.
I've read this post and it sounds all too familiar. I have been drinking a lot for several years now (upto 20 units a day). My reason was to try to self medicate and reduce anxiety......drinking isn't the answer. So far I have not had a drink since New Year's Eve. The first few days were pretty rough but the last few days have been much better. My anxiety levels are much lower and I am starting to feel much much better. It's early days but I'm going to have a whole month with no alcohol and see how I feel. I have also started exercising which has helped. If you've only been drinking heavily for a short period you shouldn't have bad withdrawl. The worst symptom I had was dizziness and nausea but I think I'm over the worst of it now. Believe me, if I can do it so can you! Good luck, hope you feel better soon.
Catherine84
09-01-14, 23:53
Thank you for your reassurance, cjw :-).
And I just wanted to say thank you Jackie for recommending soberrecovery.com. I signed up today and have received a tremendous amount of support and ressurance already.
How are you doing Catherine?
Catherine84
17-01-14, 19:18
Hi teej,
Not at all good :-(.
I went to the gp, who would not prescribe me Diazepam, even though I tolerate it well. So, in my desperation, I looked up home detox, but they also wouldn't touch me with a bargepole because they said they used such high doses of the drug (30mg three times a day) and my medical history. So I had to travel two hours away from home and stay somewhere without my family, which understandably left me distressed and I turned up completely inebriated, begging my partner to stay by my bedside overnight. I was then forced to take Librium (a drug I know didn't agree with me last time). My breathing got so shallow and every time I dropped off to sleep it would stop, spasm and wake me up. They refused me a Diazepam detox as they said it wasn't the best for withdrawals (well, how come people on here can get it?). I also found out I am not allowed any visitors until Sunday. I have to attend group meetings with a packed timetable and I just want time to get better first in a non-daunting setting. I hated being in hospital last time, but I would look forward to visiting times every day and it was a lot closer to home. Every time I relax, I cannot breathe at all.
The doctor just said he'd never seen someone react adversely to it.
I know I am going to go through the awful sleep deprivation due to not being able to stop the shallow breathing as I drop off and it is now in my system. I feel petrified and helpless.
What dosage of Diazepam did you take, teej, if you don't mind me asking?
And your avatar is so cute!
I detoxed with librium (chlordiapoxide) too. I took 20mg 4 time daily in my first day and then tapered down. Right away. Helped like a dream. Valium (diazepam) is closely related to librium - they have the same method of action and are both long acting benzodiazepines so it's really unlikely you'll have an adverse reaction. Diazepam is more potent though so you'll get a lower dose but it'll do the same thing.
Try not to worry about your breathing. You'll be fine. If you've been so anxious you're probably used to breathing in sharply as your body is in "fight or flight" mode - hoovering up as much oxygen as possible to fight off a sabre tooth tiger. Long slow deep breaths are just a sign you're relaxing and the chlordiapoxide is working.
I'm working on using a technique at the moment called "mindfulness" at the moment with my counsellor. It's really really helped me. I'm trying to make sure that I don't over focus on the future and just really try and enjoy each moment of my life. I've been making a list of things today which I've enjoyed. I walked around the park in the dark with my torch and saw some rabbits playing. I had lunch with my friend. I had a hot shower. If I die tomorrow (which I won't) I know today was a good day because I made sure I enjoyed being alive.
And the avatar is my kitten - she keeps me in the now. She's got three paws and a squinty eye but she's a fighter and loves life!
You'll be okay Catherine. Detox and then find a good counsellor and start enjoying each day as it comes. Don't worry about taking the Librium. It's been around before our time as a drug and under supervised usage it's well tolerated and safe. My grandmother is reliably reported to have kept a large supply for all occasions. :D
Catherine84
19-01-14, 02:18
Thank you, teej so much for the reassurance.
And sorry for my silly phone double posting. My partner should be bringing my laptop over tomorrow :-) x
Hope you had an improved day today Catherine. :D
Catherine84
24-01-14, 02:27
Thank you, teej :-).
Finished my course of detox meds yesterday and I'm physically a lot better.
Anxiety is still there, despite the diazepam they gave me. It's scary not knowing what the next step is, but I think I am going to push the GP for Pregabalin. I'm fed up with antidepressants making me feel so lousy.
You made it Catherine. Take a look back on what you've just achieved. Welcome to the "other side". Well done. Time to congratulate yourself!
Unfortunately the anti-depressant path is a bit rocky especially with SSRIs. Have you tried many before then? Getting myself onto citalopram was hard but sertraline has worked effectively for me eventually.
Counselling is very important at this point.
SaraH and hanshan are our resident pregabalin experts on NMP it seems! Probably worth posting in the pregabalin forums!
Hope you're doing OK Catherine. You've not posted in a while... :weep:
Catherine84
25-03-14, 16:44
Hello, Teej :).
Sorry I have not responded sooner - been so busy with moving house and trying to get everything in order.
I would like to thank you and every other poster in this thread for the advice and support you have given me over the the past few months. I was constantly trying to justify continuing with my drinking, but it took me so long to come around.
Last week, I received my 2 month sobriety chip from AA and have now been nearly 70 days dry (my last drink was on January 16th). I attend meetings every week, and aftercare from my rehab centre, which helps a lot. I still miss my moderate drinking, and going into a nice restaurant where everyone is having a glass of wine is hard for me. But, as someone in group therapy said yesterday, when this happens, he remembers the days where he drank alcoholically and how ill that made him. He says he wouldn't go back there for the world. Reading some of the stories in this thread has also been inspirational for me.
So, finally, I would just like to put my own positive spin on things. Being sober is not a cakewalk, but I am now living in a sweet little cottage in a lovely village and feel like I have landed on my feet more so in 5 weeks than I did in the three years we spent in our old place. Something wasn't right, and I was desperately unhappy. One thing that being in rehab has taught me is that change doesn't have to mean doom and gloom.
Giving up drinking has made me more willing to take risks. We only get one shot at life, and I have learnt to go with my heart a lot more. There were many things I was scared of - driving being at the top of the list, but I have managed to drive for around 45 minutes at a time now with a passenger in the car, and also managed shorter drives on my own. I feel like a whole new person having my independence back.
I also decided to take up playing the piano again after 12 years. I tried to teach myself last year, but soon gave up with the ups and downs the drinking and trying different medication during my dry periods gave me. I was so scared to have lessons again, mainly because I was worried that the teacher would say I was a hopeless case, and partly because I am self-conscious of others hearing me play. But I managed to pick up the phone and respond to an advert I had seen in the village for a teacher and I have now had two lessons. I have learnt Ballade by Burgmuller (for those who like their classical music!), and have just started to work on the first movement of Moonlight Sonata. It's such a brilliant escape for me, and it's not found in the bottom of a bottle.
I have not just started to appreciate the beauty of music again, but also the world around me. I went for a walk the other day, and I went past a pretty stream, across the fields, and could hear the birds singing, heralding spring had begun. I could never have done this before getting sober. It was like I was in my own bubble, unaware of my surroundings. The changing of the seasons and everything coming to life again has almost been symbolic for me.
The biggest change to my life I have made though came yesterday. After working for the same company for 6 years (and being on sick leave for severe anxiety for one of them), I decided, after some coercion on their part, to hand in my resignation. It played a big part of my life for several years, but it was a stressful position for the money, and definitely played a part in my drinking latterly. I have decided that my health is more important and I at least have a bit of a security blanket, financially. I cried and cried when I left, and I am still not sure whether I made the right decision, but my partner has assured me that I have.
As I hopefully get better, I am thinking of looking for a part-time or online course, and volunteering, to improve my employability when the time comes to find another job. I hope to find something that will give me some motivation to get out of bed in the morning, not hide under the duvet, knowing that I am going to be performing tasks that are way out of my depth and with so much resting on them. All I can do is try, and whilst I am scared about the future, I hope it may have opened up some opportunities for me to explore.
In the meantime, my health has to come first. Every day that my head hits the pillow sober, I look back on the day, and realise that I have accomplished something, however small. If I am having a bad day and haven't been able to face the world, at least I have stayed dry.
Thank you,
Catherine x
Well done Catherine, I knew you could do it, so proud of you.:yahoo:
Incredible Catherine. What an amazing story. I'm so pleased for you.
To read your post is inspirational. From an outside perspective, to read your original posts on this thread until now reveal a totally different person and one I dare say you didn't realize you had become. I'm sure it is inspirational to see how far you've come.
I would print the thread out and read it whenever you feel a little weak in the knees. You sound so much happier and have done many things to improve your life. Where you are now is where you want to be and should be.
Continued success and.... and keep on practicing and playing that piano ;)
Positive thoughts
To be honest I feel honoured to have been in some small, tiny, insignificant way involved with this story of hope.
livinginacave
19-05-14, 15:38
I have been self medicating for quite a long time now. I dont know if I am over doing it because I don't drink every day but I feel so much worse the next day and can hardly get out of bed the next day. If I don't drink for a bit the withdrawals can be pretty upsetting especially those vivid nasty nightmares, just to drink and experience it all again. What a misery.
Livinginacave,
Scroll up and read Catherine's post again. ... Now doesn't that sound good? You, too, are worth that kind of life. I wish you courage and strength.
Catherine, all the best, my dear, you deserve every good thing! Keep doing what you're doing, and you'll keep getting what you're getting. Onwards and upwards! xx
Marie
livinginacave
19-05-14, 16:45
I think shame has a lot to do with my state of mind. The shame that I felt at school wearing cheap clothes that didn't fit was unbearable which in turn brought about avoidance behaviours. Still hurts today but I hate myself for drinking and trying to feel better about.
PamelaParker
22-11-17, 08:34
I am with you -If you think that YOU HAVE to quit - your health is really starting to suffer - you have all these skin rashes now that I am sure are related to the toxins you have been dumping in your body - as well as just feeling completely 'blah' all the time.You hate it and you have complete control over it - so today is the beginning. start from today why tomorrow?
REALIZE WHY YOU SHOULD QUIT DRINKING. Quitting alcohol (as a drinker) is the healthiest decision you can make. Weight loss, improved liver function, lower cholesterol, stronger immune system, a clearer mind, better emotional balance, and more efficient brain activity are among the ocean of long-term benefits...read many motivational blogs on alcohol drug rehab
alcoholrehabguide.org/blog/5-ways-to-tell-someone-you-dont-drink/
addictionblog.org/rehab/rehabilitation/what-is-alcohol-rehabilitation/
addictionrehabcenters.com/withdrawal-detox/alcohol-withdrawal-detoxification/
carljoseph
29-11-17, 13:03
Beer is the best form of alcohol to use when tapering off. If you attempt to taper off using wine or hard liquor you might just wind up getting drunk again because these have higher alcohol content than beer. Try to limit yourself to drinking no more alcohol than necessary when you start tapering. Drink just enough to keep the sweats and shakes at bay. Gradually reduce the consumption of beer as you continue to taper. If the withdrawal is not too extreme you should be tapered off in a day or so. Some people may, however, take longer--three days or even a week. If you start to feel withdrawal that is a sign that your taper is not done yet. Vitamins can also help you since dring alcohol is not really good for your health.
Beer is the best form of alcohol to use when tapering off.
This is an old thread and with respect, this is just not good advice. For someone who is alcohol dependent, tapering is not an option regardless of spirit. The reason their alcohol dependent in the first place in part is a lack of self control. What's to stop someone from downing a 12 pack instead of a bottle of wine or spirits?
Positive thoughts
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