View Full Version : Man the f**k up
This thread is aimed specifically at men with HA but can apply to everyone. One of the best pieces of advice I've ever had was from a friend a few years ago. We'd gone out for the day and I had a cold. He didn't know about my HA (I never discussed it with friends) but I felt like I was dying of this cold which was giving me palpitations and an ache in my chest. After hours of me moaning about it he turned round to me and said:
"Man the f**k up princess"
Seriously, this worked wonders. All of a sudden I felt this wave of humiliation sweep through me - here I was a fully grown man thinking a cold was going to finish me off. In the meantime there are people having their legs blown off in Afghanistan, people nursing their terminally ill children and people undergoing gruelling cancer treatments. I felt like a complete d*ckhead.
Lots of people unfortunately use HA as a constant excuse to say 'poor me', it's all too often a cry for attention or an excuse to be lazy, off work or on benefits. That said, the are CLEARLY loads of people who AREN'T like this and whose HA is very real and very terrifying (like mine was). But even if you're in the latter category you should learn how to 'man the f**k up'. Put your worries in context and they will seem less severe and you'll be on the road to recovery.
I realise that a thread like this is going to cause angry reactions from those who regard HA as some kind of 'disease' that can't be cured and that excuses them from working or whatever, but I don't care because this needs to be said. HA is essentially a state of mind which can be changed. I've been there and done it. It's horrible, it truly is, but sometimes the attitude of 'man the f**k up' can really help us to put things into some kind of perspective and beat this.
Fire away with your comments but please keep it respectable, as I respect everyone's opinion on here.
Well Skippy,
I do think of health anxiety (and all anxiety issues) as an illness.
But I guess we'll have to find a double gallows because I agree with your post (when applied to people who never try only)
Skippy, the same sort of theory got me out of the grips of HA a few years ago.
But I also believe that some suffer differently to others and may need more help.
Becci
sophieunderscore
20-12-13, 18:09
I don't like the whole sentiment of telling people to "man up", because I think it reinforces the whole idea that men shouldn't succumb to their "womanly" emotions. I get the idea, health anxiety is rubbish and needs hard work to get over, I just think telling people to man up is really problematic. There is a huge problem in the UK with men committing suicide at a disproportionate rate to women because they don't deal with their mental illness, they are told to be manly and grow a pair, so they don't seek help in the same way that women are allowed to. I really don't think that the best way to cure someone's anxiety is to humiliate them and use misogyny to do so... just my 2 cents.
I was once told to "develop some ovarian fortitude" which is a phrase I like.
ankietyjoe
20-12-13, 19:01
This isn't really about 'manning up', but more about just getting on with your life.
Men aren't inherently more able to deal with these things than women are, and in fact I'm pretty sure that pretending that all is good when it's not is far more detrimental than beneficial.
With all due respect, if you were out with a friend, you probably haven't felt the full force of what anxiety is capable of.
nomorepanic
20-12-13, 19:16
With all due respect, if you were out with a friend, you probably haven't felt the full force of what anxiety is capable of.
I worked with anxiety and full blown panic attacks daily so does that mean I don't really know how bad it can be cos I was out earning a living?
I worked with anxiety and full blown panic attacks daily so does that mean I don't really know how bad it can be cos I was out earning a living?
Exactly.
Working or not doesn't tell you anything about the anxiety one feels.
I like the saying 'man up' woman up is better though ;)
I like the saying 'man up' woman up is better though ;)
But if you say to your girlfriend "Hey baby....man up if you know what I mean"....that's a good thing ;)
Positive thoughts
Well Skippy,
I do think of health anxiety (and all anxiety issues) as an illness.
But I guess we'll have to find a double gallows because I agree with your post (when applied to people who never try only)
I don't think I explained this very well Kate - my point was that HA is not the terminal disease some people think it is.
I don't know, I think I fall halfway between the two camps of 'man up' and 'it is a disease'.
Lots of people unfortunately use HA as a constant excuse to say 'poor me', it's all too often a cry for attention or an excuse to be lazy, off work or on benefits
I do tend to agree with Skippy that HA sufferers in particular do seem very self-centred and self-absorbed. BUT I think that is part of the illness/problem.
HA is essentially a state of mind which can be changed. I've been there and done it. It's horrible, it truly is, but sometimes the attitude of 'man the f**k up' can really help us to put things into some kind of perspective and beat this.
It would not be acceptable to tell someone with severe depression or OCD to 'man up' as these are widely accepted as serious illnesses. Hypochondria has different symptoms but the underlying cause (anxiety, depression, social and economic issues) are pretty much the same.
I don't think many can 'man up' and snap out of it without help. If they could put things into perspective and stop worrying then they wouldn't have 'HA' in the first place right?
However like many mental illnesses the sufferer does have to be willing to work VERY hard at getting better. It isn't like having a broken leg, slapping a cast on it and being back to normal in a couple of months. MI is a constant battle and maybe some people feel it is a battle they can't win or decide they can't face trying.
p.s. I hate the expression 'man up'. It implies men must be tough and somehow emotionally impervious..... but at the same time society seems to want men to be in touch with their feelings and feminine side. Totally unrealistic and talk about mixed messages as well.
Whether the phrasing works for me or not, I take the point about the need for individual agency. The fact that it's a disease doesn't mean agency isn't important--look at diabetics, who need to manage their diet and blood sugar, or people like me with no thyroid, who need to take thyroid hormone every day. We don't choose those diseases either, but if we want to be well, we have to take action--that's the only way we can be healthy.
I think the challenge with anxiety-related illness is that your body lies to you--it tells you that safety is in withdrawal and passivity rather than action. So in addition to all the usual reasons why actively dealing with disease is hard (it takes time, I'm still bitter I have to, it takes money, I don't feel very well) there's the fact that our bodies are often make us feel worse at the thought of action. But that's HA for you--it makes our bodies lie to us about all kinds of things, so why would it be any different when it comes to taking action?
Im not very good at explaining things but will give it my best shot.
Surely the point is that if we knew for sure we were suffering from HA then we wouldnt be so anxious or need to much reassurance. When I get symptoms I am sure I have a physical illness and find it impossible to accept that it is all down to my anxiety. So for instance this time I am convinced that I have cancer and surely you wouldnt be telling someone who had cancer to man up.
The reason I post on this forum and the HA one in particular is because when I started suffering from high levels of anxiety I found it hard to function and wanted to see how others coped with it. When I joined NMP I saw that there was a specific forum for HA and that seemed the best place for me to post purely because I was seeking what apparently is the worst thing you can do and that is reassurance. I am too scared to look at cancer forums in case I get even more scared than I am now. I have struggled for 4 and a half months with this particular bout of illness and it has scared the hell out of me.
Sorry if nobody understands what Im trying to say, I know what I mean but find it difficult to put into words. :)
had
This thread is aimed specifically at men with HA but can apply to everyone. One of the best pieces of advice I've ever had was from a friend a few years ago. We'd gone out for the day and I had a cold. He didn't know about my HA (I never discussed it with friends) but I felt like I was dying of this cold which was giving me palpitations and an ache in my chest. After hours of me moaning about it he turned round to me and said:
"Man the f**k up princess"
Seriously, this worked wonders. All of a sudden I felt this wave of humiliation sweep through me - here I was a fully grown man thinking a cold was going to finish me off. In the meantime there are people having their legs blown off in Afghanistan, people nursing their terminally ill children and people undergoing gruelling cancer treatments. I felt like a complete d*ckhead.
Lots of people unfortunately use HA as a constant excuse to say 'poor me', it's all too often a cry for attention or an excuse to be lazy, off work or on benefits. That said, the are CLEARLY loads of people who AREN'T like this and whose HA is very real and very terrifying (like mine was). But even if you're in the latter category you should learn how to 'man the f**k up'. Put your worries in context and they will seem less severe and you'll be on the road to recovery.
I realise that a thread like this is going to cause angry reactions from those who regard HA as some kind of 'disease' that can't be cured and that excuses them from working or whatever, but I don't care because this needs to be said. HA is essentially a state of mind which can be changed. I've been there and done it. It's horrible, it truly is, but sometimes the attitude of 'man the f**k up' can really help us to put things into some kind of perspective and beat this.
Fire away with your comments but please keep it respectable, as I respect everyone's opinion on here.
Hi Skippy, as much as I love your general attitude and helpfulness to others here, I have to say that I disagree with the sentiment of this particular post.
I understand that the man the f**k up line gave you a good boot towards recovery, but I just don't believe that feelings of humiliation or shame should be part of anyone's journey to getting better. People who suffer with HA *already* feel bad about themselves, I can guarantee you that no sufferer wants to be that way and would switch lives with someone happier in a heartbeat.
The idea of manning up adds to a sense of shame about the self, instead of learning acceptance and self compassion which is a much healthier way towards recovery. It's better to try and understand ourselves than to shame ourselves.
It also lacks an understanding of what mental illness is and how it should be treated. Lets not forget that HA is a mental health issue, it's not something that should be regarded as laziness or bad attitude. You wouldn't tell someone with a visible physical illness to man up, and so that attitude shouldn't be applied to someone with an invisible problem.
It's just not helpful, far more likely to be counterproductive and adds to the already difficult stigma around mental health problems.
I understand that your friend didn't know you were suffering with HA. Maybe if he had known that he would never have said that to you. I had someone say something similar to be once and it hurt me so badly because it showed me that they had never even bothered to try to understand my illness and how it affected me - they didn't know how badly I wanted to get better and snap out of it, if only it were that simple.
I also understand that you're saying people need to take responsibility for themselves and their mental health, and that's a really important point. But there's got to be more understanding in how mental illness works to have a more beneficial affect on sufferers.
It's way more effective to encourage people to think logically, get help, learn tools that work and put those tools into action. But telling people to just snap out of it is not a helpful approach, let's not add to how bad HA sufferers already feel about themselves. Lets encourage them to embrace who they are and learn to get better, rather than shaming them into submission.
Sure, some people are more difficult cases than others and it's important to be firm and consistent in our approach to them. Too harsh an approach can have the effect of making someone angry and so more irrational, or ashamed and so more unhappy - we need a better approach than that. It can be easy to feel overwhelmed with the huge amount of fearful and irrational posts on here. But rather than getting frustrated and saying flippant things lets continue to try to be frim and straight talking, but compassionate and understanding also.
---------- Post added at 23:01 ---------- Previous post was at 22:55 ----------
PS - I forgot to mention, directing this specifically towards guys is also not really a helpful approach. Being male doesn't disqualify you from feelings of fear and anxiety, it's ok to feel that way no matter what gender you are! Making someone feel lesser than others in their gender because of an illness that they suffer with again has the effect of shaming and even emasculating men.
It's OK to be a man and have a mental health problem.
I can certainly see both sides of this issue. I do agree that HA is an illness, that needs to be treated like any other illness. I believe the diabetic example set the appropriate tone. People with real physical illnesses must take responsibility for their physical and mental well being and subsequent recovery.
HA will take longer for some folks to tackle than others. Some folks will never tackle the real illness, for one reason or another. While no one should ever be humiliated or shamed into recovery, some folks do need a good kick in the general direction of the rear end. Whether we can that " manning up" or "ovarian fortitude", it is one and the same.
Even for a person diagnosed with cancer or other serious diseases, attitude plays a huge role in their recovery or lack thereof. Firm, compassionate actions are needed on this site, and also some serious honesty to those who need it. If I had only listened to the folks who " understood how I felt" and that just shared their own physical symptoms, I would not be better today.
I don't think I explained this very well Kate - my point was that HA is not the terminal disease some people think it is.
Ah I think I misunderstood. I do that often *points at hair colour*
I also find myself agreeing with you (as I said, in cases where people have never tried to help themselves and won't) but also agreeing with honeylove at the same time.
I think I shall have to ponder this further before I have know what my exact opinion is and add something more constructive to the debate.
kittencake
21-12-13, 02:02
Hi Skippy, as much as I love your general attitude and helpfulness to others here, I have to say that I disagree with the sentiment of this particular post.
I understand that the man the f**k up line gave you a good boot towards recovery, but I just don't believe that feelings of humiliation or shame should be part of anyone's journey to getting better. People who suffer with HA *already* feel bad about themselves, I can guarantee you that no sufferer wants to be that way and would switch lives with someone happier in a heartbeat.
The idea of manning up adds to a sense of shame about the self, instead of learning acceptance and self compassion which is a much healthier way towards recovery. It's better to try and understand ourselves than to shame ourselves.
It also lacks an understanding of what mental illness is and how it should be treated. Lets not forget that HA is a mental health issue, it's not something that should be regarded as laziness or bad attitude. You wouldn't tell someone with a visible physical illness to man up, and so that attitude shouldn't be applied to someone with an invisible problem.
It's just not helpful, far more likely to be counterproductive and adds to the already difficult stigma around mental health problems.
I understand that your friend didn't know you were suffering with HA. Maybe if he had known that he would never have said that to you. I had someone say something similar to be once and it hurt me so badly because it showed me that they had never even bothered to try to understand my illness and how it affected me - they didn't know how badly I wanted to get better and snap out of it, if only it were that simple.
I also understand that you're saying people need to take responsibility for themselves and their mental health, and that's a really important point. But there's got to be more understanding in how mental illness works to have a more beneficial affect on sufferers.
It's way more effective to encourage people to think logically, get help, learn tools that work and put those tools into action. But telling people to just snap out of it is not a helpful approach, let's not add to how bad HA sufferers already feel about themselves. Lets encourage them to embrace who they are and learn to get better, rather than shaming them into submission.
Sure, some people are more difficult cases than others and it's important to be firm and consistent in our approach to them. Too harsh an approach can have the effect of making someone angry and so more irrational, or ashamed and so more unhappy - we need a better approach than that. It can be easy to feel overwhelmed with the huge amount of fearful and irrational posts on here. But rather than getting frustrated and saying flippant things lets continue to try to be frim and straight talking, but compassionate and understanding also.
---------- Post added at 23:01 ---------- Previous post was at 22:55 ----------
PS - I forgot to mention, directing this specifically towards guys is also not really a helpful approach. Being male doesn't disqualify you from feelings of fear and anxiety, it's ok to feel that way no matter what gender you are! Making someone feel lesser than others in their gender because of an illness that they suffer with again has the effect of shaming and even emasculating men.
It's OK to be a man and have a mental health problem.
I want to thank you for this post, Honey Love. You've said exactly the things I wanted to say and said them brilliantly - including your 'PS' on the subject of gender.
One of the worst aspects of my health anxiety is how deeply, deeply ashamed I am of it.
This incident was a slap upside the head for you Skippy. Your friend unknowingly gave you a wake up call and it was a catalyst for you. However, it doesn't always evoke the same reaction in anxiety sufferers as I've seen here.
I can equate it to my cancer recovery. To look at me now, you would never know I was sick. People seem to think that I'm cured and life is back to normal. The truth is, it's far from it and may never be that way. In fact, based on what I'm experiencing, I know it will never be the same. Not too long ago at work, I needed to go home early as I just hit a wall with fatigue. One of my co-workers made a comment like "ohhh c'mon, you can't be that tired"... well I got news for you. I sure can! I think the same thing applies here. There was no more I could do even if I wanted to.
For some, a slap does wonders, for others, it just knocks them down a peg. That being said, there are times when a slap is certainly warranted. It's a matter of how and when it's done. There was a few threads recently where basically it was relayed that enough is enough. It was a "shit or get off the pot" ultimatum. Hopefully, it was the slap and motivation needed to give that person the push they need to take action against the beast called anxiety.
Positive thoughts
Same as you Skippy, I had a wake call a while ago, as normal I was going on to my husband about aches and pains etc, he turned round and said can you just for once stop thinking about yourself,well it made me sit up and think,and in in the long term helped, but maybe not good for everyone Simi
I have to tell myself that on a regular basis, and it does help. Especially to get through work or with outings with the family and friends.
Skippy,
I love your posts and I can see exactly what you meant....you had a cold and your friend said "man up it's just a cold"...you were a "man" and had a "cold"......so what he said was relevant to you at that time....................and I can agree with the sentiment behind your post.
I also, however, agree with a great deal that others have said.
But come on guys!!!!...it wasn't a gender comment nor about people not understanding Mental Illness!!!!
Skippy was just saying (as far as read) SOMETIMES a good reality check can be a good thing....and I think he is right:)
Sarah
---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------
Infact, further to my last.....sometimes, just sometimes there are threads started on this forum when you just want to say "FOR GOODNESS SAKE THE PAIN IN YOUR HEAD IS A HEADACHE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
eastofeden
21-12-13, 16:17
It's like telling a depressed person to 'get happy'. If only it were that simple, what a perfect world we would live in. I agree with your sentiment but the tough love approach doesn't work for everyone. Good it helped you though. Perspective is a nice thing.
Btw people can die from chest pain/heart attacks caused by the common cold if the virus travels to the heart. It's called myocarditis and it is rare but does happen.
There seem to be a lot of comments lately about people not trying. I find this attitude difficult. It seems to imply that if you try hard enough, you can recover from health anxiety. If you still have it, you haven't tried hard enough. I know nobody has said these exact words but that seems to be the logical conclusion to be drawn from some comments, not specifically on this thread. I have had HA for over fifteen years, and believe me, I have tried and tried to beat it. These days, I prefer to think about managing it and reducing its impact. Does that make me defeatist? Perhaps, but it's more hepful to me than feeling I have 'failed to be cured' whenever I have a relapse. I know many ways of lowering my anxiety to an extent, but I don't know a way of getting rid of it forever. Anyway, I am wandering away from the original point. My real point is that I believe compassion and understanding are the way through health anxiety. Nobody should really stand and judge the effort another has put into their recovery as none of us can walk in another's shoes so how can we really pass judgement on the journey that other people need to make?
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