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harasgenster
27-01-14, 12:24
This was inspired by a question I read here about whether you ever really get better - i.e. cured - or whether you just learn to deal with the symptoms. I remember having questions like that myself and there not really being much on the internet to explain. I used to read things like you will never have an anxiety-free life and wondered whether they meant I would feel stressed sometimes (like others), or whether I would always have to contend with and 'manage' the way I feel.

I consider myself to be recovered in that I do not believe I have a disorder anymore. I don't think I'd fit the criteria for anything. I do still find myself overreacting to things or getting a bit panicky now and again, and I still have questions over what is 'normal', I guess.

But I've noticed some major differences that I think I can attribute to recovery and that I want to share with you to show you what you can look forward to!

1) You bounce back To me this is the main difference. I still feel the physical sensations of anxiety to some extent - more a general malaise following a very stressful event than palpitations or anything - but whereas they once would have lasted three months, they now last an hour. I don't think you will ever stop feeling ill when you are under a lot of stress or when something very sad happens. I think it's human to feel that physically. But you really don't mind anymore when you know it's going to pass quickly.

Not only are the physical symptoms much shorter, but so are the emotional ones. A large part of this for me was learning to stop trying to 'fix' the way I felt and stop being anxious, but to allow myself to feel fear or sadness or pain or whatever with the confidence to know that it's self-limiting. You won't feel that way forever, you're going to feel like that until it passes - and it does always pass. You've just got to let it kind of 'play out'. I prolonged my suffering by trying to make myself stop feeling negative things. Had I allowed myself to just feel like crap and believed it would pass, I would not have felt bad for so long. Nowadays, something extremely stressful and upsetting can happen on one day and two days later I can be out laughing with my friends. We all need time to deal with our emotions, but once they've passed, you bounce back.

2) No more panic attacks or severe symptoms Like I say, I do get physical symptoms, but not major ones. I no longer have panic attacks (haven't had one for a few years). I also don't get dissociated anymore (derealisation/depersonalisation) which was one of my major symptoms. I don't feel constantly exhausted anymore, although I do feel tired if I've had a stressful day. I feel rested after sleeping, I have enough energy to keep on top of my responsibilities AND have fun! You will never live a life with absolutely no physical symptoms, because that's how our body reacts when under stress. But they won't be what they are now.

3) Warped thoughts continue a while, but you're aware of them If you have worked with a therapist, you will have identified patterns in the way you think/behave/feel that are prolonging your suffering. I had schema therapy, so I learned about major life patterns. Those who have CBT will learn about warped or faulty thoughts. They don't just disappear. They crop up again and again, but because you're aware that those thoughts are arising from a dysfunctional habit, you don't take them as seriously and they stop affecting your life. It's also a lot easier to brush them away. Basically, this is because you don't really believe them anymore. They still arise, but you're able to go 'oh, I remember last time I thought that it wasn't true' or something like that, and the fear of it just goes away - it loses its power and you get on with your life. I expect that slowly those thoughts will just be drowned out.

4) You don't put up with the same sh*t I guess it depends what you put up with before, but if you're struggling with your confidence, you will gain more. I find that I don't care what other people think of me anymore because I only really care about what I think of myself. So long as I'm doing alright by me and I know my intentions are good etc. then I don't care if others think I'm strange. I do care if I offend someone, of course, as I don't want to cause harm. But if someone is rude to me - they don't like the way I dress, they think it's weird that I become very engaged with my work in the office and can't talk and work at the same time - that's their problem, not mine. I can only be me. This part is very freeing if, like me, you have a history of social phobia.

5) You feel like your own person One of the things a lot of people with anxiety/depression have but don't necessarily notice until therapy is the voices of their parents or other significant figures resounding in their heads. I refused to believe this was true of me for years until I started to realise I was still trying to keep up to my parents' standards instead of making my own standards. My mother was anorexic and still has warped thoughts about weight, but one day I realised they were her thoughts and that I didn't really agree with them. I didn't agree that thin was better. That day I stopped seeing flash frame images of myself looking bloated and ugly in my head, and it was easier to get over my eating disorders. There are tons of other examples, but you start to realise those arguments you're having in your head between 'rational' and 'irrational' are sometimes because you've been brought up with standards and values that just don't apply to you and you can choose to let them go.

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So those are the main changes I've noticed. Will it be the same for everybody when they recover? Maybe not, I'm sure it's different for everyone, but I can tell you you will no longer feel that you are ill.

I do still get anxious and depressed, I do still get physical symptoms, but not for 'no reason at all', but because something bad has happened. And even then, I can cope. I don't feel overwhelmed. In fact, I'm pretty sure I can survive any emotional turmoil.

The main feeling I get from getting rid of anxiety is the same way I felt when I got rid of my eating disorders - freedom. It feels really, really freeing and it's definitely worth working towards. I guess you just have to believe it will happen for you, and there's no reason it won't.

Hope this is interesting or of help to someone.

Phuzella
27-01-14, 12:31
Well said:yesyes:

TooMuchToLiveFor
27-01-14, 12:42
Harasgenster~
What a GREAT and very much needed post! Thank you so much for taking the time to share all of that!

May I ask-- in addition to schema therapy- were you/are you on medication?

I am a good deal down the road on my way to Recovery, but I feel as if I have plateaued a bit- with the few slips backward and then inching back forward again. I am on 100mg of Sertraline- and my GP is recommending one to two years of being on this. I trust her, and other than possibly wanting to have another baby I have no reason not to stick to that regime. I am just wondering what happens after? I am doing CBT and talk therapy, mindfulness, relaxation exercises, acupuncture, and actually joined a gym yesterday to start working out again, doing yoga, etc. Taking a multi-vitamin and fish oil. No alcohol, caffeine, and don't smoke. I guess I am just wondering if in your experience it is now about letting time pass while my brain/nerves heal?
My battle only started in November, but progressed very quickly to a crisis stage of anxiety, panic disorder, and agoraphobia. I am back to living pretty fully, but I feel I have to "push through" and fight for it a big percentage of the time.
Okay, just realized I am bordering on hijacking this thread, my apologies. :blush:

harasgenster
27-01-14, 13:07
Harasgenster~
May I ask-- in addition to schema therapy- were you/are you on medication?
I had schema therapy with Mindfulness-CBT, person-centred counselling, and DBT - so I guess I threw everything at it!

I have been on a great deal of medications over the years. It's difficult to say whether they made any difference to me as I'm very sensitive to medications - it turns out - and the negative effects (for me, extreme drowsiness and oversleeping) were the most obvious to me. In the end I was on a very low dose of citalopram but frankly didn't feel any different after coming off it (once the withdrawal symptoms had passed) than I did while on it - except I was able to stay awake all the way through the day! I did, however, find them useful when in crisis - i.e. I can't get to work or something like that. I found them more useful in the short-term, basically. They weren't a long-term option for me. I had also been on most SSRIs, SNRIs and had been on a mood stabiliser as well over the years. But these things effect everyone differently, so I guess you just need to think of how the pills are making you feel - are they working? - and then, as you say, trust your doctor! I think medication is one of those things that works for some and doesn't for others, and you just have to decide for yourself whether it's something that's helping you or not :)


I am a good deal down the road on my way to Recovery, but I feel as if I have plateaued a bit- with the few slips backward and then inching back forward again. I am doing CBT and talk therapy, mindfulness, relaxation exercises, acupuncture, and actually joined a gym yesterday to start working out again, doing yoga, etc. Taking a multi-vitamin and fish oil. No alcohol, caffeine, and don't smoke. I guess I am just wondering if in your experience it is now about letting time pass while my brain/nerves heal?

Obviously everyone is going to be different and it's going to be a very individual journey for you, but in my experience where I felt I was plateauing I would discuss this with my therapist as sometimes there was something holding me back I wasn't really fully aware of.

Having said that, rest is really key, as you're probably pretty exhausted by now! It sounds like you're doing all the right things to help yourself get that rest so if I was in your position I think I would give myself a bit of time and see how I feel. I guess if you feel plateaued for months on end, that's when I'd start wondering if there was anything holding me back.

As for what happens next: By the time I came off medication I really didn't need it anymore and it had got to the point the medication was holding me back (in my case because it was making me too drowsy to make the changes I needed to make). I guess what you're aiming for is to change from the person you were when you got ill, because whatever vulnerabilities you had (perhaps you had some beliefs about yourself or your situations that weren't completely true - perhaps you believed you can't cope, or believed you would never be able to achieve, or whatever...) are what caused this in the first place. Presumably you and your therapist have been working on finding out what it was that led you down this path in the first place and once you've accepted what was wrong and made the decision to change those things, I think that's when you start feeling like you're really behind the steering wheel!


Okay, just realized I am bordering on hijacking this thread, my apologies. :blush:

Not at all! :)

TooMuchToLiveFor
27-01-14, 13:10
Thank you, dear friend! :)

cloudbusting
27-01-14, 17:01
Harasgenster - great post and thank you for taking the time to write it for us all.

I shall take yesterday as a blip. I have been doing OK, not fantastic and not where I hope to eventually end up but not too bad either (this has been building up since October and boiled over, for want of a better expression, during Christmas and New Year). I'm just impatient, I guess !!!

I shall read your post again and really think about what you are saying here. The voices of our significant others part has really interested me

Thank you again

Lisa x

Fishmanpa
27-01-14, 18:27
This is a great post. It also affirms my beliefs concerning healed/recovered vs. cured. I truly believe you can be healed. I'm healed/recovered from serious physical illnesses as well as from some mental (depression) but I don't believe I'm "cured". The recent depression was mild and I've stated that the CBT course offered here contributed greatly to my recovery.

It is like you said. There are times "Eeyore" comes creeping into my head but I'm better able to cope and deal more effectively with the thoughts that sent me into a downward spiral previously. It's like what Tanner is always saying about her "toolbox". We have these tools so we can tighten a nut or bolt that has come loose (intentional analogy). When things are tight, it prevents outside elements from getting in :)

That last point is for me the most important. Both with my physical recovery (which I'm still going through) and my mental recovery. I call it my "new normal". Am I the same person I was before? For all intents and purposes, yes but I've been compromised physically as well as mentally and there are scars. In the end however, I'll be a stronger person for it. Like you said, it's about not putting up with the same shit.

Although I don't suffer from the same affliction, I can empathize and relate to a great extent what you're going through.

Again, great post and a testament to what determination along with treatment can do.

Positive thoughts

harasgenster
27-01-14, 20:20
This is a great post. It also affirms my beliefs concerning healed/recovered vs. cured. I truly believe you can be healed. I'm healed/recovered from serious physical illnesses as well as from some mental (depression) but I don't believe I'm "cured".

This is essentially a philosophical question for me, but the reason I don't use the word "cured" is because I'm not sure I believe I was ever ill. I don't mean to trivialise the seriousness of mental health disorder, but now that I can see the events that led up to me being the way I was and I can see the kind of 'internal logic' to it, it just doesn't seem right to call it an illness.

I don't think there is any difference between me and the man on the street, basically. It's just that I had some pretty unlucky circumstances. Fortunately, those circumstances no longer effect me. So I guess I don't think there was ever anything 'wrong with me', I think I was just being human...reacting in a totally human way.

Like I say, it's a question of semantics really! Perhaps I just find it more comforting to see it that way.

I would say that I don't think those 14 years have necessarily had a lifelong impact on me - or rather, not a negative one. I think there are positives to having suffered at some point. I think it makes you wiser, really, and more appreciative of the good that life has to offer.

Fishmanpa
27-01-14, 22:21
That's an interesting perspective. I don't know if I would have thought of it that way but then I wasn't affected to any extreme for a long period of time.

I do however, see myself differently from the man on the street due to my physical illness. Outwardly, you wouldn't know but if I were A/B myself against another, the differences are apparent... at least to me.

From the mental aspect I see your point to a degree. My knowledge of depressive disorder from which I have suffered with, is that indeed it is an actual illness. A chemical imbalance that affects the way I process certain situations. That's what the science behind SSRI's is about. These imbalances can and are caused by various reasons. From heredity to traumatic events that throw brain chemistry off balance. At least that's my take as well as the therapists I've spoken to over the years. From my research into anxiety disorder, I've found much the same.

It's an interesting subject to say the least and one that has always fascinated me from my college days.

Glad to see that you've found a way to tame the Dragon and that you're doing well.

Positive thoughts

vaughanp99
12-02-14, 11:17
I think it is important to be realistic about what recovery might look like. I have social anxiety but always wanted to be the life and soul of the party. Once I understood that this was not a realistic target and that simply being able to function in social situations was a huge step forward, I was able to make peace with myself. I have to say CBT was a great help in my case.

WhyWhyWhy
14-02-14, 08:35
Point 5 in this is very important for me. Really good post x

MrAndy
14-02-14, 13:39
great post,I still feel anxiety is a condition that can be resolved.Personally I am getting closer every day and hope to be fully recovered soon.Some very good points in this thread though.

Keep strong and keep fighting everyone

sc0g
31-03-14, 18:58
i hope to feel as you do some day

harasgenster
31-03-14, 19:53
i hope to feel as you do some day

No reason why you can't. I believe it's achievable for everyone, just takes a little while so try to have patience with yourself :)

PanchoGoz
31-03-14, 22:44
I think this is brilliant and very insightful. It rings true with me very much so, expecially that I now don't consider it as a disorder, just something that I feel, that comes and goes now and then. Points 1 and 5 really ring true for me to and I consider myself to be in the same position as you. Yes I can feel anxious, but then the next day I might notice that I don't - it's like I forget to. And the fact that you now see through the anxiety, you are above it and control it and you can smile if you want to.

High five!!!!