View Full Version : Sexual Harassment Question
If someone at work made a sexually explicit remark about someone else in your workplace and you agreed with it, even though you did not say it, does that make you a harasser?
Also, what if you did not fully agree with the statement and said 'maybe' or 'probably,' does that mean you have come out and basically said that they are what the original person said they are, for example if someone at work called a co-worker a lesbian?
Thanks for your help.
Sexually explicit remarks are fine in the right company but I'd make sure not to do it at work unless it was being done with your best friend(s) and no-one else was within earshot. It is also fine for you not to join in with the banter and to even take a stand if you feel someone is going too far.
Gossiping about a co-workers sexuality is again fine in the right company but don't let the conversation become mean spirited and doing it in front of the person can cause offence.
The following could be construed as controversial so please don't read on if you are easily offended!!!!!!!!!!!
My last piece of advice is to never let a woman become part of your inner circle (at work) as they have totally different sensibilities about how men use language. Some people will argue about this but it is rock solid piece of advice.
i love tea
08-02-14, 15:25
Me too!
"The following could be construed as controversial so please don't read on if you are easily offended!!!!!!!!!!!"
Your last paragraph IS offensive, however you read it.
The following could be construed as controversial so please don't read on if you are easily offended!!!!!!!!!!!
My last piece of advice is to never let a woman become part of your inner circle (at work) as they have totally different sensibilities about how men use language. Some people will argue about this but it is rock solid piece of advice.
***Grabs some popcorn and sits back in my chair to watch*** ;)
Positive thoughts
Lol Fishmanpa.
Seriously though, I can swear like a trooper when needs be, and not blush if someone dares to mention anything to do with sex in my presence. But as for men and women having different sensibilities with regards to the use of language, this sounds like something from 1914 not 2014.
Now where did I put my smelling salts??
TooMuchToLiveFor
08-02-14, 16:24
***Grabs some popcorn and sits back in my chair to watch*** ;)
Positive thoughts
LOL!!!! I haven't yet decided if I want to sit next to you and enjoy the show, or become part of it. :tongue:
Apologies to Robin for making light of your problem, but someone very dear to me has been subject to rumours about their sexuality, luckily they were able to not let it get to them too much but it's still not nice.
I guess the answer is to not get involved with gossip in the workplace in future.
Robin my advice is rock solid - disregard it at your own peril!
When did it become offensive to be honest? And did you really find it offensive? Really? Not that I care if I offended you btw.
In this infantile society we live it is now considered brave to admit we are different - that the private conversations I have with my male friends I would never dream of having with a woman, especially one in the workplace.
Women please get over the fact that men enjoy each others company without you being invited. We talk about childish things and make jokes about anyone and everyone - boundaries, decency and good taste are usually left at the door. To talk freely at work in the company of a woman is a stupid needless risk so don't do it!
Not really offended, bit annoyed but hey, I enjoy men's company, their simplicity can be a breath of fresh air.
Harassment of any kind is uncalled for though.
And I meant no offence by the use of the word simplicity either, women can be a bit complicated at times.
Let's agree to disagree:D
For those not in the know, this is based on FB comments I supposedly made. This is the ongoing issue. I am trying to defend myself based on the comments.
I have addressed the issue about the sexuality question and I agree, its not nice. However, you can't be guilty of sexual harassment based on an opinion. The original question was based on orientation.
The two other individuals who were involved in the conversation, I have been told, are guilty of making sick comments which are as much of a harassment to me as to my supervisor.
I was also told that my supervisor had created a sexualised environment based on what she had told me - she mocked my physical appearance and told me that I should have a shave, brush my hair and change my image basically and get a makeover as it was implied that then I would have a better chance of meeting women. When I asked her if she would be in a relationship with me based on my looks (this was a hypothetical question), she said "not like that, no." She said we had nothing in common and I was too old for her. This was all based on hypothesis in regards to the questions I asked.
My supervisor doesn't like criticism - this is a general comment. I'm not too concerned about this.
To be hypothetical about a sexual harassment situation. I have spoken to my HR dept. and they have told me that there was no sexual intent on my part and that wording in comments is important. If I had said, they said, that I was going to, for example, slap her bottom (sorry if that offends, it is merely an example), that is serious because the intent was there, but if I said "Could you imagine if I slapped her bottom?" then there is no intent.
The next comment was based on how her mother was more than willing to dance with me and give me a christmas kiss at the christmas do but my supervisor was not - further more, when i got to the do, they had been mocking my supervisor and she had felt embarrassed and they were playing "our song" on the DJ's mixer. I asked her if she wanted to dance but she said no (purely on a friendship level). There was then an on-going joke about the christmas kiss and even other colleagues had said if she had given me a christmas kiss yet? Now, if that behaviour offended her, surely she should have asked me to stop or gone to management, as is procedure? Also, since other people mentioned the kiss etc., why did she not make a complaint against them? Another point that was mentioned was that my supervisor was keen to give me a lot of alcohol that night and it was noted by other employees that I had had enough - it was insinuated that she might have been trying to get me drunk in order to have her wicked way with me - I saw this as unlikely.
I saw there was a comment on my FB page about how my supervisor was immature but that is a general comment to me and I am not too worried about it.
Another comment was how some of the ladies in a certain department had nice figures and a woman who once came into the office to apply for a job gave me a hot flush. Surely that's no different than if a woman saw a handsome man at the counter and then turned around and said they were having hot flushes. This is harmless, surely?
The final comment was based on how I have raging hormones and now and again, can't resist a subtle look. I can understand how that might make some feel uncomfortable but this is all part of human life. It is perfectly normal. Certainly no grounds to criticise an individual, based on this.
Also, if an employer feels that a sexual environment has been created in an office, that it is their duty to act upon it to avoid potential problems arising e.g. harassment. Has my supervisor neglected her duty of care by allowing the office to become sexualised?
Is the above enough for the individual to raise a civil suit against me? I don't care much for the job in truth. I just don't want to be sued. I believe I have more than enough of a defence here. Also, my HR said that in order to constitute harassment, the behaviour must be ongoing. However, that is not in my opinion always the case based on the harassment.
Its all a nightmare and I am due to go in for a workplace meeting next week to discuss this but I have no recognised T.U. rep (this was due to breach of terms) and now have just four days to find one. I have been on stress leave and to hospital which is why I have not been to the meeting as of yet. Also, it was suggested I should attend no meeting until I am aware of the full allegations made against me. All I know is that the allegations made were based on FB comments - nothing more than that. Should the allegation originally have been more specific?
I am really scared and have on occasions contemplated an easy way out, such is my worry. Please help.
Thank you.
Can't your union help in providing a rep to accompany you to the meeting?
I had one but unfortunately they breached policy. Also, my line manager made a statement to me that time restraints in regards to holding the meeting could be used against me. When I told my mum, she said this is actually a threat. I have been off on stress leave and gone to the doctor's etc when the meeting was due to take place. My biggest concern is can a civil suit be used against me? How severe would harassment have to be for it to reach a civil court?
I believe I have answered all the questions in my defence but I fully appreciate it from the point of view about how she feels.
From what I've read about civil suits, they seem to be based on a series of incidents rather than one or two questionable ones - e.g. if I made 1 lewd comment.
The only other point which concerned me in truth was about was the gender orientation but I believe I have my answer there.
As for the other points, I'm not too concerned because I feel I have the ground work now in order to move forward.
I have contemplated asking a legal advisor about this as well because there are a lot of things here which I find very concerning still in regards to employment rather than the situation in hand.
Thank you all so much for your help. It is very much appreciated.
If you want a union rep there it is your legal right, insist on it. Your company should have a written policy probably called respect at work or similar, read this, you should know in advance what is being raised, if anything surprises you, halt the meeting and discuss with your rep, you are within your rights to postpone it if new allegations you are not aware of are bought up.
At the end of the day the worst they can do is sack you and you would likely have a chance at employment tribunal as they seem to be making a mess of the process. Civil case won't happen, not enough reward to raise it through that route.
How about talking to the CAB, I believe they sometimes have legal people there.
I'm afraid I have no idea about civil suits etc. In my opinion, the best thing is to be completely honest about the whole situation, write notes for the meeting and try to stay calm.
I am not too bothered now really. I think all my questions have been answered. I can't see how a civil claim could come of this. I will try and contact CAB and see what they say but this has been a complete farce from start to finish. Thanks for your help. I just feel like tendering my resignation now. I am just so fed up.
Hope it's all sorted soon :)
How about this?.... When all this hopefully and finally blows over, or even right now, delete your Facebook page and avoid social media websites ;) I'm sure every single one of us did just fine prior to social media.
Positive thoughts
I am still on Face Book but keep my posts very much general (as I did before anyway).
As far as I am concerned, I have got the answers to my questions I need and work can basically do one - sorry to sound like that but I've had enough of this now.
Just want this whole sorry mess sorted out - need a rep but I only have four days to prepare. Not my fault my old rep. broke procedures or if I was on stress leave or had a medical appointment when the meetings were supposed to be.
All I want is to go in on Monday and hand in my letter of resignation in all truth. Its stressed me out, no end.
Thank you for all your help. Kind Regards.
Robin why haven't you contacted the union's main office? They specialize in this - do it Monday first thing - we are not the experts!
It does sound like you have done nothing wrong though.
Will do - it is good to get general consensus and other expert advice as well in a means to build a case. I am going to contact HR as well so they can help further.
Thank you all. Regards.
I've been enjoying the popcorn BUT pretty reprehensible when you say if I offended you, I really don't care. Come on, we are all here to support each other.
TooMuchToLiveFor
08-02-14, 19:51
I second what Tanner said. ^^^^^^
Also, Phu, thought you handled your final comeback in regards to the "offensive" post to be full of maturity and grace.
I have shown support and offered constructive advice.
If my comments have offended you then I really don't care - they are honest and I stand by them 100 percent! Maybe the fault lies within you for finding offense in the truth however unpalatable it may sometimes be.
TooMuchToLiveFor
08-02-14, 21:16
Wow, Sweetheart, I'm not even commenting on the "offensive" part of the post (whether it is or not- I just really am not worried about what your take is on this subject- you are entitled to your own opinion)--- I just think that your wording could be a little kinder considering this is supposed to be a SUPPORT board and not a board where posters instigate communication in an antagonistic fashion.
Fair enough but then why have people made a point of highlighting what I wrote as though it was a major issue? I did forewarn those of a sensitive disposition - what more could I do?
Personally I think that people have been conditioned to shout "that's offensive" before they actually even consider what is being said. If you think the advice I gave was wrong then please explain why.
The problem is these days whilst you know what may be construed as offensive, you do not always know what may be offensive if you came out with a perfectly innocent comment.
It's a minefield indeed.
i love tea
08-02-14, 23:01
“When did it become offensive to be honest? And did you really find it offensive? Really? Not that I care if I offended you btw.”
It's offensive to be honest if the views you hold are ridiculously sexist. You speak as though you know the thoughts of every man and as though you never spend any time with women... And, yes, I know my own mind and I did find it offensive. I don't expect you to care but I expect to be able to express an opinion, just as you have.
“Women please get over the fact that men enjoy each others company without you being invited. We talk about childish things and make jokes about anyone and everyone - boundaries, decency and good taste are usually left at the door. To talk freely at work in the company of a woman is a stupid needless risk so don't do it!”
That's your opinion but you don't (and can't) speak on behalf of every man – a fact which I'm really very thankful about.
“If my comments have offended you then I really don't care - they are honest and I stand by them 100 percent! Maybe the fault lies within you for finding offense in the truth however unpalatable it may sometimes be.”
I think we just established that it's not “truth” - it's just your opinion.
Getting back to the point, this whole thread is making me uncomfortable as we have only heard one side of this story.
I personally think that, if you have upset someone, (whether you meant to or not) rather than trying to justify your behaviour perhaps a better course of action might be to apologise. Just a thought...
I understand you have heard just one side of this story. However, with due respect, I know I have done nothing wrong, regardless of whether I wrote those comments or not.
What I find so sad about this is that my supervisor had to stay away from me during this time. Does she think I am a sex pest or was going to make her do something that might make her fear for her safety? I would never intentionally endanger anyone or make them feel uncomfortable and find it offensive that anyone may suggest otherwise.
However I totally respect what everyone says, whether I agree or find it to be otherwise. I want to make it crystal clear that I mean no offence to anyone based on my own opinion.
However if this thread is making people feel uncomfortable, perhaps it should be closed down.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.