View Full Version : We Are Not Doctors!!
AuntieMoosie
28-02-14, 02:12
Please, if I may, I'd like to put in a small request.
I haven't been on for a few days now, and when I did come here, I was blinded by symptoms!!!
"I've got this pain, I've got this lump" and so on...........
Now, before anyone jumps on me, I really feel for anyone who suffers from any form of anxiety, and here on NMP, we all suffer from it in one way or another.
I'm sorry to say this, but I cannot see the benefit of people asking us about physical problems, we are NOT doctors, and, in fact, all I'll do is advise you to speak to your doctor, as I will know as much as you do.
It's one thing to say "I get really bad migraines because of my anxiety" or any symptom related to anxiety, but the endless, "what's wrong with me" stuff is just getting too much, well, I'll rephrase that, it's getting too much for me!!!
What annoys me most about it, is that all of those kind of threads, tend to bury all of the others, then I end up missing something that I would have liked to reply too.
I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but it is my opinion, it's like it's becoming "No More Health Panic"
Please don't misunderstand me, it's fine for people to say that they are suffering from health anxiety and seeking advice, that's what we're all here for, but please, can we stop the endless symptoms, it's not helpful to anyone, as we know no more than you do.
While I'm on a roll...!!!.......lol :winks:
I also get quite miffed at the "I've got cancer, I've got MS" and so on, when, in fact, you haven't even had a diagnoses. It really is just shouty, drama stuff, and can also have an impact on other members.
Well anyway, sorry for the moan, but that's how I feel.
xBettyBoopx
28-02-14, 03:53
Wow you seem to be in a bad mood or something. As far as I can see this site has always been the same and people are always asking questions, you know the ones that you don't like!
You say that you can't see any benefit in people asking about physical symptoms, but if there was no benefit in it in some way or another, people wouldn't bother to waste their time asking.
At the height of extreme anxiety the health anxiety kicks in and we ask questions of others in the hopes that someone can help. Now if you think thats wrong, well then I shouldn't be here. However I have been here since 2006 and have had a lot of help in my hours of need from a lot of people. I do know of course that people here aren't doctors, but doctors can only give you medical advice that is taken from a book and not from experience.
I make absolutely no apology for asking for help from people here and none for offering help either.
Els
I have to agree with AuntieMoosie on this one. We are NOT Drs or medically trained! If people have physical symptoms they should go to their Dr or call NHS Direct.
I also have concerns about teenagers on here who are clearly in trouble and need to speak to an adult in their lives. We are NOT psychiatrists and if we tell these young people something and it all goes wrong!...........
I have health anxiety too but if I have a medical symptom I see my DR.
The support I get on NMP is different.....I know exactly what Auntie Moose is referring to.
Sarah
I reply on the forum much, but I agree with moosie, a lot of posts are asking about specific symptoms, convinced they have a specific illness and seem to want us to tell them that its all just anxiety....yes it probably is...but we are not doctors so cannot say 100%
I use the chat room a lot and it can be the same in there. When we say go and speak to your doctor, that sends anxiety spiralling as the sufferer thinks we are confirming how ill they are...when we aren't we just aren't doctors so cannot diagnose.
In my experience, discussing symptoms in detail don't help. Tackling the actual thoughts and anxiety routes do....but it takes each individual time to be ready to do this, so until then...they are lost in the symptoms themselves.
I just think that all members need to remember that we are all sufferers, we all have had different journeys and experiences to bring us to where we are now and we are all at different stages of our recovery. There aren't many people that reply to a post meaning to cause harm...they are trying to help so we should all consider others opinions.
Health anxiety sufferers should utilise the experience of members on tips of dealing with anxiety rather than search this site for someone who has the same symptoms...
venusbluejeans
28-02-14, 12:41
NMP has definitely changed over the last couple of years, Watching and reading all the threads as an Admin you see a different side of things and notice the amounts of threads and the type of threads that are posted.
There has been a ten fold increase in Health anxiety posts, and they are a lot more of "OMG I have a spot on my arm, I am dying" type of posts or "my whatever levels are whatever on my blood test what does that mean???"
That is not belittling HA at all it is the truth about the forum as it is at the minute.
Yes I understand it must be horrible to suffer from it and I really wouldn't want to myself BUT this is a support site that is supporting you through your your anxiety rather than a diagnostic tool for your results.... about 99% of the forum are not medically trained. so can not give a quallified diagnosis.
I also understand that a lot of the posts like it are just after reassurance BUT....
what happens if you tell someone that their spot they have posted is harmless and it is just their anxiety causing all the symptoms and then later on they find it was really skin cancer???
yes there is only a very small chance that may happen but I am not sure I would want it on my conscience and I am not sure many other people would but it may happen as it seems a lot of people would just answer "it is just a spot and your HA is getting the better of you it is just your anxiety" and not the better answer of "It is more than likely just a normal and looks like it to me BUT we are not drs so if you are worried go to the doctor!"
Also the Dramatic posts seem to get all the attention and many pages of replies trying to placate the poster, but there are loads more threads that get hardly any replies.......does that mean that their problem is less important? I don't think so....do you?
So totally agree with you Auntie Moosie!
hi, correct me if im wrong,I thought this site was to see if people were having the same symptoms as others and to compare, reassure and suggest that some may need to see there gp, I know that you are not doctors but its reassuring to talk to someone who are having similar symptoms of this dreaded anxiety, and try to put minds at rest, when possible, isn't this the purpose of this site ???
nomorepanic
28-02-14, 13:20
That isn't entirely the purpose of the site really and not how I want it to be if I am honest.
It was intended to be support for people with panic attacks and anxiety and not turn into a site that has most posts asking "is this cancer", "do I have a brain tumour" etc.
Most people post in the Health Anxiety forum as they see it has the most posts but they could actually post in the more relevant forums and get just as many replies.
NMP has (sadly) gone too far down a route that I am not happy with at the moment but turning that around is a big challenge too.
anxietyoverload
28-02-14, 13:29
I feel like I agree with everyone who has posted on here. Correct - we are not doctors and we cannot diagnose anything. However I suffer from HA and sometimes I feel like when I am in state of panic it really does help to see that other people have been through the same thing.
It is hard for people who do not suffer from health anxiety to relate, and I understand that. I do have HA and even when I see a post saying ' I have cancer' or 'I am dying' the first thing I think is well, your probably not, but its easy to say when your not the one with the issue. When you are in that state of panic its very hard to calm down yourself.
I could never ever thank this website and the people on it for all their help over the years, it's been a lifesaver in my darkest times xx
ok fair enough, what purpose does the site hold if no one can talk about there symptoms in the hope that someone else is suffering the same, anxiety is all about reassurance in the hope to get people to feel better with themselves, I suffer with generalized and health anxiety and have done on and off for years, this site has helped me loads, purely because ive read that most people are having similar symptoms to me and it reassures me, the way I see it is if people go to there gp in the first place to get anxiety diagnosed and to get the relevant tests done then reassurance is the best way to go
sharing anxiety symptoms is fine....there are a whole array of annoying symptoms from anxiety, and we all have our ways of dealing with them. It's as Moosie says, this lump, or this pain...I think I have cancer....people asking for advice on this is more a doctors field. To be honest, if people ask for advice in a "I'm struggling with my health anxiety symptoms" way then 1. they are helping change their thought cycle by admitting its anxiety themselves, and 2. they can get advice and techniques from other on how they have dealt with it.
if this is the case then you just say that a trip to the gp should be in order, not moan about people who are scared they have something sinister going on and just want a bit of reasurrance
I'm with Moosie and Administrators, that NMP now seems to be 80% health anxiety posts, which is blocking out people posting primarily about anxiety. Most of the HA posts just seem to be veiled requests for reassurance that the symptoms don't really mean that the person has cancer or whatever the feared disease is.
If the HA poster has actively found this website, there is a good possibility that their symptoms are due to anxiety. On the other hand, there is always the small possibility that there is real physical disease, so any symptoms should be checked by a doctor. In this case, NMP posters are not qualified to give online medical diagnoses.
However, any HA posters who have had their symptoms checked several times by several doctors, and been told they are normal, should acknowledge that they have health anxiety, and seek help for that. Their illness will not improve if they simply continue to seek reassurance that their symptoms do not have some serious physical cause.
In the old days, if you had a problem, you saw your doctor and were reassured it was nothing serious, or diagnosed with something and treated accordingly. Theses days, with medical horror stories everywhere you look, especially on the Internet, nobody has confidence in their doctors anymore.
It's a sign of the times I think. Technology moves on at an alarming pace and our poor old stone age brains struggle to keep up.
Years ago, a doctor,my mum,and many other people told me 'oh it's your nerves, you'll be OK '. And I was OK, I recovered.
If I'd have had Google etc to constantly scan for symptoms, I don't know if I'd have ever come out the other side in one piece. That's my take on it anyway:)
anxietyoverload
28-02-14, 14:09
My anxiety is no where near as bad as it used to be, and 90% of the time I come on here to respond to other peoples posts. However after reading these comments, it would make me think twice about posting for reassurance. I always thought this was a safe place for me where I would not be judged, but it appears that this is not the case and HA sufferers should just go speak to their GP.
Surely everyone on here suffers from some form of Anxiety and going to see your GP for help goes for everyone not just HA sufferers.
May I just add ----Each visit the GP gets they are paid. I just cannot remember how much, so the more you visit the better off they are xx
Hi anxietyoverload,
There is always the case that people might reassure you when in fact you actually did have a life-threatening illness. As Moosie says, we are not doctors.
See the doctor about your symptoms, and post here about your anxiety.
nomorepanic
28-02-14, 15:24
Here is a post just done that makes the point I think:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=150483
There is no mention of the person even suffering from panic or anxiety but asking for a reason for the problem that the doctor's have already evaluated and commented on.
nicola1980
28-02-14, 15:33
I sadly have to agree, i don't really post on here anymore due to the fact it all seems health anxiety related and if Im honest i tend to just skim the posts now, nmp certainly isn't what it used to be which is such a shame as in the past its been a godsend to me but now i just don't feel comfortable posting or evening replying x x
nomorepanic
28-02-14, 15:40
I totally agree Nicola and it is sad that many "old" members say the same thing.
I am not sure how to get it back on track without upsetting people though and not allowing certain posts etc.
Is it possible to not have HA related posts appear in active topics and for them to stay only in the HA section on the left?
I agree with both sides in this debate - yes people need reassurance and sometimes the symptoms they suffer from are common complaints, which can be verified by others who are going through or have been through the same thing.
However we are not Health professionals and asking us if your complaint is harmless is like asking the window cleaner to take a look you swollen ankles.
anxietyoverload
28-02-14, 16:08
I think that would be a great idea gypcyg x
Wow! Go away for a couple of hours and back to 3 pages!
I am SO glad this debate has come up. Moose, Nicola, Hanshan (as always) and Nicola1980....I most definitely agree with you all.
Dont get me wrong if someone is anxious about their health then that is awful.... BUT there are LOADS of health websites, some about specific illnesses which would be far more informative and relevant for someone with specific symptoms.
Nicola... I know it sounds harsh but maybe if the more regular users of NMP or Admin could, if they see some of these posts come up, direct them to other sites. That way the site could go back to "anxiety". E.g.If you have a suspicious mole... go on a skin cancer website.
Sarah
I have HA myself, but I would NEVER use NMP to list my symptoms and ask for an opinion
I almost feel like this is aimed at me, might just be my anxiety talking ,) (that was a crap joke)
I hope I haven't annoyed/cheesed anyone off. Although in my defence I am going to doctors and seeking proper medical help, for my currently non existent illness. I truly think my anxiety is an issue it started a little while ago, not even sure it's just linked to health but anway I'm rambling on! Just wanted to apologise, and this website has fully helped with my googling addiction, I've been across many different health websites which makes me worse personally, so I come here instead. thank uou x
Jonesle,
I for one did not direct my comments to anyone in particular and I am sure the others on here were just speaking "generally". .....so yeah... chill out:D
I think it's worth mentioning that NMP isn't the only forum bombarded with health queries, people go on yahoo answers, cancer forums and all sorts asking the same questions, they won't mind if it's an anxiety website, they search their query and post wherever similar results come up. It's a thing of the modern western culture.
Are people aware you can filter out the health anxiety forum? In your profile you can select which forums come up and which don't, I've filtered out HA and men's personal problems lol
Poncho,
I think I might stay away from the Mens personal problems too!:)
Thing is when people post on NMP do they post in HA forum or are they just posting in general?
Sarah
But I've got this itch.........
But I've got this itch.........
:yesyes:then scratch it.....
I agree with what your all saying.
But Sarah if you direct diagnosed anxiety sufferers to cancer forums just because of a new symptom, surely it's more likely that it's their anxiety, surely it's better to ask advice here where you definitely have other anxiety sufferers too?
I think that's the only reason why I've posted symptoms in the past, because it's far more likely it's anxiety as I'm already diagnosed with it. But I know what you mean, some people may just turn up here without previous anxiety and ask for advice, I think that's where the problem lies.
It's quite interesting how the Top tips forum always seems to have 4-5 viewers, then you look at the HA forum and it has around 500. I think that shows a lot.
nomorepanic
28-02-14, 17:48
Is it possible to not have HA related posts appear in active topics and for them to stay only in the HA section on the left?
Hiya
I don't understand what you mean about them staying in the HA section on the left.
You can stop them appearing in active topics by excluding the forum like someone else said on this thread.
Luna,
You answered your own question:). People come on here asking about symptoms...... there are many forums where they can ask about symptoms for every illness on known to medicine. NMP as Nicola has said is about "anxiety" itself, NOT...." OMG my left testicle is swollen... do you think it is cancer?" type questions(I just made that one up BTW):)
sarah
anxietyoverload
28-02-14, 17:57
It's strange, as when I joined this website in maybe 2011 it was very HA based when I was just stalking the site shall we say, so thats why I signed up. I didn't realise this wasn't how it started xx
The fact that people are posting it in the health anxiety forums surely means deep down they know its anxiety....but some don't accept that when told...or when they are directed to self help cbt sites. Some have even been to the doctor about their issue...and have been tested and cleared...but still come asking if there symptom could be a terminal illness.
I think it's just about thinking before making a thread....many symptoms have been posted about before so reading others posts may answer questions people have. I understand that some people just want a bit of reassurance about their issues as well, but that can also feed the problem, rather than solve it.
I think it was a bit much naming and shaming someone with their post?? Probably won't have helped them if they've just joined and also suffer from anxiety. What seems trivial to one person may not to another.
I think it was a bit much naming and shaming someone with their post?? Probably won't have helped them if they've just joined and also suffer from anxiety. What seems trivial to one person may not to another.
Who has been "named and shamed"?
nomorepanic
28-02-14, 20:52
Me I guess as I posted a link to a post but I was just making a point and I doubt very much they will see it to be honest.
Nicola, I would post links myself if I knew how to (luddite:D). Since this thread was started today there have been several new ones along the lines that we have been discussing..................
Sarah
bottleblond
28-02-14, 21:34
I have only read the first few posts on this thread because I did start to become a tad irritated if I'm honest. I have had severe HA in the past. Not so much now thank goodness BUT in saying that, I completely understand how and why people try to seek reassurance on this subject.
People must try to remember that although THEY may suffer anxiety in their own way, others have a completely different experience with their condition and are quite within their own right to seek reassurance as other do for their symptoms.
There are no rules to anxiety and panic attacks. No one wants to live this way or suffer these symptoms. The fear is there no matter if it's the fear of a life threatening disease or crippling panic attacks etc.
HA is the worst aspect of this illness I have experienced. Even worse than the agoraphobia because at least with that, you feel safe in the comfort of your own home but with HA, you NEVER feel safe or well and it's a tad unkind for fellow sufferers to make someone feel even worse for asking for help and advice on this matter.
Just my view
Lisa
Lisa,
I have health anxiety too! But I would never list my symptoms on here and ask for an opinion. That is the point that is being made by Moose and others. Reassurance about the anxiety is what NMP is about..... but not diagnoses'.... surely?
Sarah
nomorepanic
28-02-14, 21:47
Lisa - it may help to read the whole thread to get an idea of what we are talking about and how NMP used to be and how it is now. You will remember how it used to be as you are part of the furniture now :winks:
bottleblond
28-02-14, 21:54
Lisa,
I have health anxiety too! But I would never list my symptoms on here and ask for an opinion. That is the point that is being made by Moose and others. Reassurance about the anxiety is what NMP is about..... but not diagnoses'.... surely?
Sarah
I have no idea who this thread is about and I have no desire to know. I saw the post when floating around, logged in and replied so I am reading this blind so to speak. I am answering as a HA sufferer and I know in the past my symptoms have been plentiful and I have asked for advice on them all. Unfortunately at my worst, there was no online internet help because there was no internet. lol...BUT if there was, then I am sure I would have listed my
lot and asked for advice.
On the flip side, If I was someone dealing with me when I was at my worst, I would have pulled my hair out because it is the most infuriating condition and the majority of the time, the sufferer doesn't believe the advice they are given. Not through any fault of their own though.
I'm not here to debate or enter into an argument. I just wanted to put my point over because I have gone through it.
xx
nomorepanic
28-02-14, 22:21
Lisa - did you see my reply ?
bottleblond
28-02-14, 22:35
Let me read back.....
Barnabas75
28-02-14, 22:38
Maybe we should just keep showing compassion.I recieved it here from members.This site was a Godsend during the worst time in my life.I think maybe its a compliment that people feel they can share there greatest fears here.Many sadly may not have anywhere else to go.I dont know,just some thoughts.But I agree with Moosie.We are not doctors.And like fishmanpa says,we cant jump through the screens and save people.There comes a point where people have to take action.
bottleblond
28-02-14, 22:43
Nic
You replied several times. Are you talking about the link you shared poppet re the gurgling ? x
MRS STRESS ED
28-02-14, 22:43
Surely people who are posting their symptoms are just looking for answers nothing else,its due to their state of mind ,how many of us can say we have not posted about are symptoms ,I cant see the harm myself ,yeah I agree about the drama side of things but postng symptoms I have and its not because I think your doctors ,just thought people could help
Nicola I had no idea that you could hide certain posts when you search active topics. If that is so then what's the problem - tell everyone how to do it and the HA sufferers can seek reassurance as normal without bothering those who don't want to see them.
nomorepanic
28-02-14, 23:03
Nic
You replied several times. Are you talking about the link you shared poppet re the gurgling ? x
No the post saying read the whole thread to get an idea of what the thread is about lol
nomorepanic
28-02-14, 23:06
Nicola I had no idea that you could hide certain posts when you search active topics. If that is so then what's the problem - tell everyone how to do it and the HA sufferers can seek reassurance as normal without bothering those who don't want to see them.
I would guess that over 50% of the posts go in HA forum regardless of where they should be.
Myself and the other admins spend a lot of time moving them to more relevant forums.
I have to read all posts to check for spammers etc
bottleblond
28-02-14, 23:17
Nic
I did and went back and read the whole thread. I've read nothing that changes my opinion.
What I meant is, Am I looking for something you said in particular? x
nomorepanic
28-02-14, 23:20
Well the fact that NMP has changed so much and now is being used as a medical diagnostic site I guess was my main point.
It isn't the site I created and the site I want it to be and something has to be done about that in my opinion
Is the increase of health related posts here connected to difficulty seeing a GP, does anyone think?
I don't have HA, but I do have health issues, and recently it's been almost impossible to see a doctor at my practice when I want/need, and I've long given up trying to see the one who knows me best. If I ring on the day, it's emergency only, and the receptionist wants all the gory details of why I need the appointment. Most times I get promised a phone call, not an appointment. It's as if we need to know a week in advance that we're going to be ill!
Plus, there may be NMP members worrying more at night (as we do) and obviously they can't see or speak to the GP at that time, but the forum's always here 24/7.
bottleblond
28-02-14, 23:43
Well the fact that NMP has changed so much and now is being used as a medical diagnostic site I guess was my main point.
It isn't the site I created and the site I want it to be and something has to be done about that in my opinion
I know mate but it's still an issue that effects and involves a site like this regardless of whether any of us can help or assure an HA sufferer. None of us are medically trained on Panic attacks, phobias etc but we try our best to help those who suffer and reassure people who suffer the same symptoms. :hugs:
AuntieMoosie
01-03-14, 02:06
May I firstly thank you all so much for taking part in the discussion and adding your own thoughts and feeling on it :)
Lisa, bottleblond and all that suffer with health anxiety.
Please don't misunderstand me or feel that it's to "get at you" that's not what I meant at all :)
I have the utmost respect and understanding to all who suffer from any sort of anxiety/panic...........it's all the pits no matter what we have on an individual level.
I feel that I should perhaps make it a bit clearer what I actually am saying.
I just feel that you're not going to really get the help and support that you may need if you're just asking about specific symptoms rather than talking about the real issue which is the anxiety/panic.
I have absolutely no problem at all with people talking about health anxiety and I would love to try and help and advise as best I can. :)
It's just the endless symptom posts......the "help me! I've got cancer" that I just don't think actually help anyone.
The reason that I say that, is because we wont know anymore than you do, and like Emmz has rightly said, I'm very reluctant to even hazard a guess, I would feel absolutely dreadful if I was to say "no, no, it's alright, you haven't got a heart problem" and then find out that in actual fact you did have and vise the versa, if I were to say, "oh yes! that definitely sounds like cancer to me" which could have a most dreadful impact on the sufferer.
Now, having explained that, I think it's great and very positive for someone to say, "my health anxiety is making me panic" "how can I help my health anxiety?" :)
For the people that say "but we only want reassurance" my answer to that is that you're not really going to get that reassurance on NMP as we are not doctors or medically qualified to give that sort of advice or reassurance. Seeing your doctor about specific symptoms is the way to go firstly, then, if your doctor says all is well and it's an anxiety issue, then that's where NMP can help, support and advise :)
There has been some really good suggestions and opinions from all sides.
I would like to reply about having a "special" place for symptoms. I can understand your thinking and I understand what you're saying, but I really, in my opinion, don't think that would help either. As there really is no "right" place on NMP for medical symptoms. Nic set up up and opened NMP primarily for sufferers of anxiety and panic, and not as a diagnostic tool on the net.
There are, as has been said, many different sites for different health issues, and if people are seeking advice specifically about a medical condition, they will be served much better by going onto a specialist site :)
It just doesn't seem right that NMP has turned into a "symptom checker" It's not what it's all about, it's not what our Nic created and it does seem a little unfair that people who are trying to get advice about anxiety and panic are having their posts ignored because they become buried, and lost, in all the "symptom" posts.
Nic has got some really good and helpful information on NMP, she has included a forum for "symptoms" of panic or anxiety where people can freely discuss any symptoms that they get relating to panic or anxiety.
Like Nic, I'm not too sure of the solution to this problem now, I feel for her too, as I know that she wont want to upset anyone, but she feels she needs to do something to bring NMP back to what it should be and that's a very difficult situation to have to deal with.
I'm kind of hoping that people will take note of what has been said, and perhaps try to change things ourselves, we're all adults and we all, at the end of the day, want the same thing and that's lots of help, support and advice for all of us that suffer with panic and anxiety.
It's not difficult to do, it really isn't, if we all just focus and talk about panic and anxiety, support, advise and understand each other and leave all of the physical health issues to the health professionals, thus leaving everyone able to focus on the "real" problem. :)
Many thanks to you all for taking the time to reply to this thread.
Love and best wishes to all :hugs: :hugs:
Catherine S
01-03-14, 03:01
I'm now totally confused! I always thought the NMP forum was all about health anxiety. I personally do not expect you to diagnose my health problems, but feel that it's more about sharing symptoms and making each other feel better that's the important message of the forum. This thread has thrown me to be honest, and I'm feeling a bit lost now :(
I think what AuntieMoosie meant was that it is different for someone to ask "Has anyone had a similar symptom or experience?" and "I have this symptom, is it cancer, MS, etc?". The problem isn't in asking for advice, support or looking for someone who has experienced similar. I have no problem when people post along the lines of - "awful chest pain, already had scans and seen doctor, nothing wrong. Has anyone else experienced this kind of pain and how do you manage it?". The problem is when people ask if they are dying from this and that. For example - "Is this a heart attack?". Generally, the answer is no. If you can sit at a computer and are asking about it, and not calling an ambulance, then chances are is isn't a heart attack. HOWEVER, we don't know for sure because we aren't doctors. We can't tell you with certainty that it is or isn't. We can't guarantee that the pain in your chest isn't heart pain because we haven't be trained to do that. We are normal people, just like the person asking the question. After you've seen the doctor and ruled out anything medical, we can reassure you that you are ok, but if you haven't seen a GP we can only offer you advice, generally to go and check in with your GP :tongue:
That was my understanding anyway.
---------- Post added at 15:48 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------
I may also add that I am in my 5th year of training to be a clinical psychologist, and in a professional setting clients are usually referred to us by a doctor/GP who has seen the patient and ruled out any serious medical conditions. Otherwise, as a part of our assessment, we ask patients to see a doctor to rule out any medical issues as being the cause of their symptoms.
I hope that helps put things into perspective.
Well said Anthrokid and Auntie Moosie:)
I agree with everything Auntie Moosie has said. I must admit I am tending to avoid the posts that are so dramatic or I might just reply with "only a doctor can diagnose ypu do go and see a doctor" That is the only way to get reassurance. We can help with the actual anxiety created by symptoms but not in diagnosing those symptoms which a lot of people are now asking for.
If I can take the opposite side for a moment, meeting up with someone else who has the same symptoms can be beneficial, if you've just been shunted out of a doctor's office, having just been told "your symptoms are normal, there's nothing we can do," etc. Doctors often act like their work is done once they have ruled out any health-threatening physical condition.
For example, there was the poster who posted that floaters were "ruining their life" (floaters are spots or vague blotches that swim around in your field of vision). I was able to say say that I've had floaters for half a century or more. At times, when I was anxious about other things, I also became more anxious about the floaters. But once I calmed down, I was also less worried about the floaters.
Knowing how floaters have affected another person might help the poster work their way through the problem.
The main point is that anxiety and psychological, not bodily physical, issues are at stake.
Well said hanshan,:D
Petra x
nomorepanic
01-03-14, 11:15
I'm now totally confused! I always thought the NMP forum was all about health anxiety. I personally do not expect you to diagnose my health problems, but feel that it's more about sharing symptoms and making each other feel better that's the important message of the forum. This thread has thrown me to be honest, and I'm feeling a bit lost now :(
Nope it was never set up for this and not what I wanted it to be - as I said earlier.
bottleblond
01-03-14, 13:28
Again, It's going to be one of those subjects that is going to cause debate. Not a heated one this time thank goodness. :)
I can see both points of view but if I still suffered with chronic HA as I did in the past and came across a site like this, I would have thought all my christmases had came at once just being able to see in black and white that others had these same physical symptoms I was suffering from. On the other hand, I'd probably begin to get alot more symptoms reading others posts. lol
:hugs:
xxx
For reference, I'm copying a random selection of health related issues posted or commented on in the PAST HOUR OR TWO. Clearly, many of the posters realise that anxiety may be a factor, but their fixation is that they have some physical disease.
__________________________________________________ ______________
"Hello. I have HIV/lymph node swelling anxieties. Even though I tested 6 months conclusively negative I can't seem to believe it as I had a bad viral infection 5-6 weeks after a sexual encounter. ..I even went to a ENT specialist few Weeks ago and he felt my neck and didn't mention anything. I had a doctor check my neck for persistent swollen glands as a was still worried about HIV and he said there's nothing. I'm guessing there just normal size. Any help?"
__________________________________________________ _______________
"I've been putting lots of effort in this past week, and I am 7 weeks doctor free this week. I know its silly but I'm very proud of that as I used to be there 3/4 times a week! Ive found a little peace this week and hope I'm moving forward. However I have a niggly stomach discomfort in my upper right stomach that is driving me mad.
A moment of madness I consulted Google and it was all bad. Heart or possibly lungs. I feel my breathing has been funny recently like I need to cough to breathe. So now blood clots in the lung cross my mind. I know I shouldn't be asking for reassurance. But as I can't see a doctor I will be worrying all weekend over this. Its not serious pain its intermittent discomfort in my upper right abdomen. It's definitely worrying me, especially with my chest and breathing."
__________________________________________________ _______________
"I am 40 years old and I have known that I had three fibroids for about five years. I have managed them fine using birth control pills but last week after a few months of changes to my pills due to discontinuation of the greatest pill ever I was bleeding for three weeks. Last week it got so bad that I really thought I was going to die. I bled so much that I have been weak and tired (probably anemic). I got back on a good bc pill and am not bleeding anymore but the doctor is pushing for a hysterectomy. I am scared, I don't want surgery, I don't want anesthesia, on and on. I am anxious, obsessively researching and depressed. My mother had very large fibroids and did nothing (took bc pills to control) the bleeding and once she got through menopause they shrunk. Have any of you dealt with fibroids? How did you cope? Did you have a hysterectomy, or myomectomy?"
__________________________________________________ _______________
"This is getting ridiculous. I know it is. Today my poo is orangey yellow. GP says I have gastritis, I am taking ranitidine, I thought it was from drinking too much wine on Saturday but now my partner has similar symptoms to me, he says 'it's just a bug' (viral gastritis?) and made the rookie mistake of saying his poo was a bit yellowy when I asked him. HE TOLD ME HIS POO WAS YELLOW. WHY DON'T I BELIEVE HIM? WHY PHOTOGRAPHIC PROOF?"
__________________________________________________ _______________
"Please help as I recently had a blood cholesterol test, which seemed ok, but receptionist at my surgery said I had high potassium levels, and would need to retake the test in 2 weeks. I am going to struggle to wait 2 weeks with my anxiety levels."
__________________________________________________ _______________
"I'm acutely aware that I get anxious (though I've never had it diagnosed) but still, would like to get people's thoughts. 2 months ago I went to the doctor for a tongue problem, something that was scaring me and making me very anxious. Whilst in the middle of all of my anxiety I noticed a lump in my throat below my Adam's apple.
Since then I've almost forgotten about the tongue thing but am fixated on the throat lump. Some days it's not so bad but other days it's there. On top of this I've developed a symptom of eating and then burping a lot after and feeling like food is coming up with my burps. I have convinced myself I've got Barrett's oesophagus and that isn't good. Could it all be anxiety? I have an ENT appointment in London this Saturday, but am petrified to hear what they'll say. How can I go from seeing my dentist and doctor about a tongue thing, to developing symptoms completely unrelated?! I hate being anxious and worrying! It's ruining my life!!"
__________________________________________________ _______________
"I know this is stupid but I was tested for HIV it was negative. Had a really bad illness I can't get over in my head that it wasn't HIV infection symptoms. In my head in going over reasons thinking that they must be wrong what if they tested someone else's blood instead of mine. My question is do labs have safeguards to stop errors like that happening? I’m basically looking for reassurance as it's driving me insane and I don't wanna go retest as it took 19 days last time for it to come back and I was tearing my hair out then and I don't wanna face that anxiety again especially if it's over nothing. Do labs have safeguards to stop errors when blood testing? If so does anyone know what? Anyone heard of labs making a mix up? Or is this just Hollywood movie scripts I'm coming up with in my head?"
__________________________________________________ _______________
I have always assumed that NMP is NOT a diagnostic tool.... that is what Doctors are for an in an emergency in this country we can use NHS Direct who have access to Dr's.
I am still struggling to understand why someone would post a thread with a headline that says "Am I having a heart attack!!!!?"....... all I feel like writing is "well clearly not as you wouldn't be typing on your computer!!!"....... Or "Do you think my mole is cancerous?"......... well how the hell would I know!..... go to the Doctor!!!!!!!
I think these are the type of questions that Nicola, Moosie etc (and me) are referring to. (although of course I would never speak for anyone else).
The anxiety/medication questions I can deal with............. the rest I am staring to ignore
Sarah
---------- Post added at 15:05 ---------- Previous post was at 14:59 ----------
Hanshan... are you saying that these samples are not what NMP is about or that these are ok?
MRS STRESS ED
01-03-14, 15:11
I think people are forgetting these symptoms are a big part of peoples anxiety ,I dont think this post isnt going to help them if they read it ,they will feel they cant ask a question but thats just my opinion
Rennie1989
01-03-14, 16:25
What people need to understand is that there are umpteen-million threads on this forum of every possible symptom ever experienced from people with anxiety and I think the search tools are being ignored. People should use the search tool before posting as they may find their symptoms have already been discussed about, with relevant advice given, instead of clogging the forums with thousands of hyperventilation/palps/shaking threads.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe the HA forum is becoming a bit of a trigger. I've seen so many threads of HIV, food poisoning and cancer fears where people literally say 'I have this condition' without a medical diagnosis (or even a consultation), it can't help those who also have these fears but are trying their hardest to control them.
I maybe cynical, but I think some sufferers (even myself) need to take a step back and think rationally for a few minutes about their anxiety. I've had terrible anxiety relating to HIV, being followed, police coming after me, my husband leaving me and so on and I've had to learn to deal with these anxieties myself, because reassurance is only a quick fix, DEALING WITH THE ANXIETY IS KEY! Anxiety is a bloody pain to live with and the sooner we start learning how to tackle the anxiety itself the less we'll feel anxious about.
I agree with both points here, this forum is a support network and not a cyber doctors surgery. If you think you have x,y or z wrong with you then speak to a doctor, but there's nothing to say that you can't have support through the anxiety, just don't ask us what is wrong with you. There is something nice in reassurance, because symptoms of anxiety are very physical and scary, but please take the advice given and learn to accept that it will not hurt or kill you, otherwise we all wouldn't be here!
Why have a health anxiety section Nicola if you feel so strongly that that is not what you want NMP to be?
The main problem people with HA suffer with is not being able to rationalise about what symptoms they are experiencing. We get a headache and go straight to worst case scenario, rather than the simple explanation.
When I am in the throws of a HA panic attack then I seek reassurance, whether that be from family, friends, doctors or fellow HA sufferers. Whilst I 'know' that most of us are not medically qualified, it is useful sometimes to compare symptoms with each other. I also find it useful to reread my old posts and this helps calm me down when panicking.
Whilst I do agree that asking if we think something is cancer etc is pointless as we can not diagnose, it is difficult for the poster as they want immediate reassurance. So unless the forum is deleted, those posts will always remain.
Only my opinion as a HA sufferer.
I think this threat has been a fair and balanced debate where people have expressed views on what they think is helpful. I don't think that health anxiety sufferers should take any offence in what has been said...if anything, it may help them get more support in future with how they express their issue in thread title and content.
I personally don't fully understand health anxiety, which is why I don't respond on threads in that section but as I have said earlier I do use the chat room a lot and people often come in "having a heart attack" or suffering from "a brain tumour", and it can be quite intense trying to support them through.
I have always stood by the "each person has their own journey to recovery" moto but try my best to share what I have experienced to work with my self and others....and with health anxiety I have seen many cbt tools have good effect.
Anyway, as has been said, no-one is saying people cant post about health anxiety issues, but just be careful what you are asking support wise...do you want people to convince you don't have an illness? or do you want someone to relate to, so that you can talk yourself down :)
Rennie1989
01-03-14, 16:45
Why have a health anxiety section Nicola if you feel so strongly that that is not what you want NMP to be?
That was not what she meant at all. The HA forum is there to support HA sufferers, the problem at the moment is that it's become a forum asking for diagnoses and people self-diagnosing with these very serious conditions. The intention of the forum is to SUPPORT, not DIAGNOSE. We understand that the thoughts and strong feelings make you believe that you have an awful condition but there needs to be some sort of control. Reassurance only works temporarily, as I've experienced with my own anxieties and witnessed with others, but the anxiety itself needs tackling for these thoughts to eventually go away.
The reason we ( only recently ) added the HA section was because people were posting HA posts in all the other forums and swamping them. It seemed a better solution to have one place for them all, so members could choose to block or ignore them if they wanted
almamatters
01-03-14, 17:18
Really good point about the search facility Rennie. I used to ignore it when I first joined the site but it is a great way to look at symptoms and rationalise . It helps to calm me down regularly.
nomorepanic
01-03-14, 17:27
We have a Health Anxiety forum as it is a recognised illness so it is for sufferers of HA itself but at the moment it is being used for just about most posts AND to ask for a diagnosis.
If you don't have HA then you can post in the symptoms forum instead.
Really good point about the search facility Rennie. I used to ignore it when I first joined the site but it is a great way to look at symptoms and rationalise . It helps to calm me down regularly.
I do that too and when the google beast attacks, I only allow myself to google my symptom followed by 'no more panic' to ensure I only read things on this forum. It as been a lifeline for me on a number of occasions.
Interesting topic and thread Auntie Moosie.
I have to agree with you here as well as many others in response. Symptoms and fears go from legitimate to ridiculous but then the anxious mind is one that cannot be easily defined.
The HA forum is by far the most viewed and participated aspect of this site and for good reason. This malady, I believe, is possibly the most common of the various types of anxiety disorders. If it weren't for the fact that HA sufferers visited the cancer forums in such frequency, I wouldn't have given the malady another thought. It was due to that fact that I even found this site and began to research it as I did.
The majority of the posts are reassurance oriented and I agree with you that they coincide heavily with diagnostic overtones. No, we are not doctors. At the same time, some of the fears, and forgive me for being so blunt or seeming insensitive, are frankly absurd. To ask if you're having a heart attack and sit waiting for a response for hours surely indicates it's not. To be chasing the tail of cancer worries for years despite dozens of tests and doctor visits would certainly indicate it's not cancer. And don't get me started on poo threads! But such is the nature of the Dragon. In those types of instances, a common sense approach and response is indicated as long as it's followed with seeking help for the real illness which is anxiety.
I'm a relative newbie here and while I don't suffer from anxiety (and I've gotten some rather heated responses due to that publicly and privately), I do have issues I deal with. Depression and "scanxiety" are nothing to sneeze at I assure you. I spend a considerable amount of time here answering posts (publicly and privately) and hopefully in a reassuring and logical way, the fears so many face, and do so based on personal and practical experience.
If anything, we should strive to encourage others to seek professional help. When medical science fails to resolve the fears and doubts, it only leaves the psychological aspect.
It's human nature to get caught up in drama. Why do you think TV daytime soap operas and dramas in general are so successful? Drama begets drama and regardless of the subject, it's a common theme in humanity. Thus it's not surprising to see the responses to some of the threads, especially when the OP's responses are so emotionally charged (suicide, irrationality etc.).
What can be done to change the tone? IDK. Ignoring is not the answer. A simple response advising help beyond what can be provided here and leave it at that probably would be the must prudent way. That's difficult sometimes obviously and thus part of the reason of this thread.
Again, an interesting subject and thread. Thanks for allowing me to be a part and voice my opinions.
Positive thoughts
Well said, Hanshan :) And those kind of posts are completely fine by me. I have no problem with people asking for a bit of support/advice from others in the forum, or asking if anyone has experienced similar. This is a great place to talk with people who have experienced similar symptoms and to learn how to cope with your own. I think the thing people are frustrated with, as I mentioned before, are when people ask "Is this cancer?", "Am I having a heart attack?", "Do I have cancer?".
---------- Post added at 10:48 ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 ----------
And well said to you too, fishmanpa! I think you managed to word that much more eloquently than myself.
---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:48 ----------
And thank you for your rational explanations, Rennie :) Again, you managed to summarise much more eloquently than myself, haha!
harasgenster
02-03-14, 01:47
I personally respond to HA posts by determining whether I would personally feel any worry over the same symptoms (as someone who has never suffered HA). If there are symptoms there that I would think 'yeah, I would see a doctor about this', then fair enough see a doctor. I think there was one about vomiting blood once, and I would personally phone the NHS if I was vomiting blood to determine if it was an emergency. Don't know if that's the right thing to do, but that's what my guts would tell me, so that's what I would advise. We can only tell others what we would do in the same situation.
But generally what I find myself telling someone with HA is 'I wouldn't see a doctor about this, it doesn't sound like anything that would concern me'. Because we all (anxiety or not) get ailments now and again, or aches and pains etc. And you wouldn't see a doctor every time.
For this reason, I kind of understand the 'is this anxiety' posts, because frankly 99% of the time it is. And 99% of the time when people post stuff on the HA forum, I think 'yeah, I've had that and I didn't worry about it' or 'yeah, that's a really well known symptom of anxiety'. I think if they were really ill, they'd know it (and then they normally wouldn't come here).
We're not doctors and shouldn't be a replacement for doctors, but I also wouldn't encourage a person with HA to see a doctor for all the stuff they post on here. It could only make it worse, imo. A person with HA should generally be trying to see a doctor a lot less often (although obviously there are individual differences and some may be actively avoiding doctors).
It's true that I can't directly relate to HA, but I've had mad irrational thoughts before, so I relate to that. What I would say to those with HA is that you just have to take 'the risk' (which it probably isn't) to just sit with your symptoms and see for yourself that you don't die without rushing to a chemist or a doctor or even to this forum. Until you've proven to yourself that reassurance makes no difference whatsoever, you won't get over it.
Catherine S
02-03-14, 02:33
I'm still confused even after reading all of this thread! Somehow it has made me think about people panicking in a different way, and no longer feel confident, as a fellow HA sufferer, to offer them advice or comfort just in case I'm saying the wrong thing, or what they are asking isn't really acceptable to ask...how can we judge people who come here for help? How do we make the decision on who to respond to and who not? I've read threads where people have talked about taking their own lives..so if that's OK, why are people who think they have a real illness unacceptable? All we do is just tell them we cannot diagnose, that's not too much trouble surely? If anybody is fed up with that they should think about what the forum means to them. Just some thoughts from someone who doesn't know how NMP was when it was first set up, only as it is now and was really impressed with it which is why I signed up, and who feels lost, confused and disappointed reading this thread, and hopes no potential new member thinks the same if they are perusing the forum with a view to joining!
Hi Sarah,
Concerning those posts that I put up - I'm not sure what the answer is. It was mostly for people to be able to read a few HA posts together to help them make an informed comment. I really did pick half a dozen at random in a row from the previous hour or two.
What is clear is that every one of those posts is from someone suffering from anxiety, and they need to talk to someone else about it, particularly a person who has experienced something similar. I wouldn't want to deny that to anyone.
The problem is that giving reassurance is bound up with giving medical advice more suited to a doctor, and disentangling reassurance from medical advice can be difficult. For example, if someone is frightened of having surgery, that is a very common and genuine fear. We can reassure people by saying that they are safer going into surgery than hopping into a car, or by telling them that we had a similar operation and it went fine. But if a person says "should I have surgery or continue as I am?", we can't really answer that question.
Well said, Fishmanpa. You are a rock to many of us. (And do you play that guitar resting on your knee? Sorry, I shouldn't go off-topic :))
Perhaps people's replies to health anxiety posts could focus on the thought process side rather than the reassuring "I've had that" side. After all not everyone might have had your symptom but it could still be normal.
hello
I haven't been on here for weeks but this thread caught my eye.
Abraham Lincoln once said that you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time…
I find all points of view are valid but am interested why certain ladies ignore reading men's problems.
It is far harder for most men to "come open" on NMP about their problems than women and health anxiety can naturally effect one as one gets older, and as I get older and am experiencing failing health for a number of reasons and therefore my GAD has increased and like many others on here,it affects my whole family.
When I am feeling really down,not depressed or am in a highly anxious state, the last thing I would do is post on here, I physically wouldn't feel well enough,so it's my decision to stay away.
There are some very supportive and brave people on here and unfortunately a few attention seekers but we each judge that ourselves.
On balance I think Mandy was right to bring this subject up and I also know that many people say one thing but actually in reality mean the opposite.
When I am ready I will hopefully return,but for me I don't find a good majority of the threads helpful,at least for the moment.
find all points of view are valid but am interested why certain ladies ignore reading men's problems.
It is far harder for most men to "come open" on NMP about their problems than women and health anxiety can naturally effect one as one gets older
I don't mean men's posts in general, the "men's problems" forum which is about testicular worries as such. I am of no help to them and they are of no help to me!
One of the other issues that needs to be mentioned concerning the reassurance posts is that you have fellow HA sufferers affirming similar symptoms. "Me too" is not really helpful in the context of "Is this normal?" as it's not normal to begin with. Take a look at the thread about "Upper right stomach pain". Three pages of "Me too". It's like a love fest of stomach ailments. Perhaps it offers some short lived reassurance in that someone is not alone with their symptoms/issues but it doesn't address the problem nor offer a solution.
Positive thoughts
One of the other issues that needs to be mentioned concerning the reassurance posts is that you have fellow HA sufferers affirming similar symptoms. "Me too" is not really helpful in the context of "Is this normal?" as it's not normal to begin with. Take a look at the thread about "Upper right stomach pain". Three pages of "Me too". It's like a love fest of stomach ailments. Perhaps it offers some short lived reassurance in that someone is not alone with their symptoms/issues but it doesn't address the problem nor offer a solution.
Positive thoughts
:yesyes:
IrishLondon
02-03-14, 21:25
The fact that anxiety has very real physical symptoms surely means that people will come on to talk about the physical symptoms they feel? I totally understand the diagnosis thing but I have received great comfort here from people telling me they have the same anxiety symptoms as I do. I often see this forum as a safe haven...and I do worry that this thread makes this forum a bit less welcoming for people who need help.
Catherine S
02-03-14, 21:55
This was kind of what I was saying too Irish, in fact I find myself looking at the threads now in different way...as in, should I reply and try to help or, as has been implied, maybe they are expecting too much?
nomorepanic
02-03-14, 22:04
On the flip side the posts could also be putting people off joining and replying as it can be overwhelming to see so many posts about cancer and brain tumours and other illnesses that are never actually diagnosed.
I know of many members who have left as they felt NMP was turning into some sort of medical diagnostic site and not a support forum for panic and anxiety sufferers.
We have to have guidelines about what can and can't be posted or it just turns into a "free for all post anything" forum and I cannot allow that to happen
This was kind of what I was saying too Irish, in fact I find myself looking at the threads now in different way...as in, should I reply and try to help or are they asking too much :shrug:
This thread as made me question whether I should reply to people too, It's almost as if I feel I will be in the wrong if I do.
In fact this thread has made me question the forum as a whole which is a real shame. It was the one place I thought my health anxiety was understood, I'm not so sure now.
nomorepanic
02-03-14, 22:13
Why are people missing the point of this thread?
We are NOT saying HA sufferers are not welcome on here to post. We are saying that we cannot diagnose illnesses and people should not be posting asking if they have this and that and even putting pictures up asking what it is.
Imagine if someone was misdiagnosed by a careless reply by a member to their thread? What would happen then?
Nicola, I think 99% of people agree that this forum isn't a diagnostic tool and should never be. BUT...the nature of health anxiety means that people who suffer will want to discuss what they feel anxious about. Whether that is waiting on test results, dr appointments or symptoms that they are experiencing we want to discuss it with people who understand our thought process.
Catherine S
02-03-14, 22:33
Point taken Nicola, and realise the responsibility you have, but think this might have made a lot of HA sufferers much more anxious than they already were! The nature of the beast I guess.
nomorepanic
02-03-14, 22:39
I am not trying to make HA sufferers more anxious at all.
I am trying to get NMP back to what I WANT it to be that is all and not something that can make people feel worse as all they read are doom and gloom posts when they login each day.
It needs to be more about getting well again and anxiety free and ways to do that and success stories.
Catherine S
02-03-14, 22:54
Doom and gloom? Nice. I'd say be careful what you wish for...the forum as I understand it would cease to exist if nobody was asking for help. We all love success stories and that's what we're hoping to achieve for ourselves by sharing our panics and fears on here. I also realise that you have to support your staff without question but I think Aunty Moosie has opened a Pandora's box with this one :)
nomorepanic
02-03-14, 22:57
I don't get paid for running NMP and it costs me money to run it and the admins do it for free as well
Moosie is not one of the staff as you call them
I am sorry but that is the message I get and people are leaving because of it - one has posted tonight saying the very same thing more or less
I've been sitting back, quietly taking in everyone's opinions and thoughts on this thread. I will begin by saying that I understand and respect both sides of the thought processes going on here.
As someone who has struggled with panic attacks, depression, generalized anxiety, and yes, health anxiety upon occasion, I feel the need to weigh in. This site has changed within the four months that I have been a member. Has it? Or is it me that has changed?
When I first joined, there were many days and many posts about my symptoms. I don't think that I was ever asking someone to diagnose me, as somewhere deep down, I knew it was all anxiety based. I was an absolute wreck when I joined and this site was a godsend for me. But yes, I did talk about my symptoms. The initial reassurance that I received and the ability to share my feelings and my fears with like minded individuals was an invaluable resource.
If I was reading this thread today, as a new member, and I was a wreck, I would probably not feel welcome. I would feel too ashamed and too insecure tom open up. I would not know if what I wasmposting was okay and I might feel that I was being judged.
Luckily, my symptom posting phase did not last long. Why? I don't know, other than the fact that there were many people on here that I saw had recovery and valuable advice. Skippy, Chris, Kate, Fishmanpa, and many others. I wanted what they had. I was determined to eventually help others, as they had helped me. And then there were the new people that came online, like Too Much, that came with a determination to get better.
I am one of the lucky ones.
With that said, as a HA sufferer, nothing drives me crazier than the 10-15 page threads where people keep responding to people that are not in a place to hear them. Or they are not in a place to work hard enough at this time. Posts of people in need are ignored while posts of "I know I have cancer, lymphoma, MS, etc..." get a gazillion responses.
One thing I do know is that NMP will never be what one person or what another person fully wants it to be. It is larger than me or you. It is a community of people that are going to continue to speak in the manner that they need.
I will say that I miss the members that seemed to have so much recovery. I tend to become discouraged these days when I read all of the "I've got this" posts.
I'm not sure if NMP has changed or I have changed. If I have changed, it is partially due to NMP. So who am I to complain?
harasgenster
02-03-14, 23:07
I would like to add that there are rules about what can and can't be posted on other forums about mental health disorder, for very good reason.
For instance on an eating disorders forum you cannot say 'I'm going to starve myself by (details inserted)' because this may negatively affect others in the group. You can however say 'I keep wanting to starve myself', because that is the real issue and that's the only issue anyone can help with.
Part of the point of this is that it forces people to rephrase what they are going to say and that very rephrasing is often what people need to start doing for themselves.
So instead of 'I have cancer' as a subject title, 'I keep thinking I have cancer' would be more appropriate. You don't have cancer, but you keep thinking you do. That focuses it on the real problem.
Also, maybe don't title a thread something like 'Upper abdominal pain HELP!', because the pain is not the issue. The issue is the way you are reacting to the pain. So 'Jumping to conclusions about stomach pain' may be more appropriate.
This isn't just for the sake of the rest of us, it's for the sake of the poster. You come here because anxiety is the issue. Take a moment to decide what kind of anxiety issue this is - are you jumping to conclusions perhaps? Are you overgeneralising? (I've failed an exam therefore I will fail every exam, for instance). Think about what it is about your thoughts that is irrational, then seek help on dealing with irrational thoughts or relaxation techniques.
I think that would be useful, anyway. It doesn't help people to constantly seek reassurance.
Harasgenster, very well said. Unfortunately I think that many of these people are not in a place where they can actually do that. Their irrational thoughts have taken control and the rational part of their brain is not strong enough.
I must say that this thread has even made me question who I respond to and what I can say to them.
Catherine S
02-03-14, 23:15
Great post and very well explained harasgenster, however people aren't thinking that intelligently in the middle of a panic attack, so would really only apply if they were thinking rationally enough to make those choices before posting.
---------- Post added at 00:15 ---------- Previous post was at 00:14 ----------
Sorry Tanner, looks like I answered at the same time withe same thoughts.
MRS STRESS ED
02-03-14, 23:17
Harasgenster, very well said. Unfortunately I think that many of these people are not in a place where they can actually do that. Their irrational thoughts have taken control and the rational part of their brain is not strong enough.
I must say that this thread has even made me question who I respond to and what I can say to them.
I agree with you tanner when your anxiety is that bad your not going to think about anything only how bad you are ,Im sure when I joined I was bad x
harasgenster
02-03-14, 23:18
Harasgenster, very well said. Unfortunately I think that many of these people are not in a place where they can actually do that. Their irrational thoughts have taken control and the rational part of their brain is not strong enough.
I must say that this thread has even made me question who I respond to and what I can say to them.
Perhaps there could be general guidance, with examples, of what you're not allowed to say so that people can work out how to rephrase their problems?
I do agree that it is difficult for those who are not yet there, but perhaps providing a kind of step-to-step of how to make a post so that people can see when they are panicking over a pain, they can use a pre-formatted title instead.
So they have to answer the question 'have I been diagnosed with the illness I am going to talk about?' If the answer is 'no' they have to put 'jumping to conclusions about...' before the title.
Maybe that's too restrictive and probably just way too much work for the administrators, but I think it would be useful to kind of force people to start rephrasing their thoughts.
---------- Post added at 23:18 ---------- Previous post was at 23:17 ----------
Great post and very well explained harasgenster, however people aren't thinking that intelligently in the middle of a panic attack, so would really only apply if they were thinking rationally enough to make those choices before posting.[COLOR="blue"]
Hmmm...yeah, good point...
I'm not sure what the solution is then, but it does seem like a valid issue to be solved.
nomorepanic
02-03-14, 23:20
We do have rules but how many of you have actually read them - go on be honest :whistles:
Panchogoz I understand ricardo's post concerning Men's problems as I was concerned also when reading your earlier post about filtering out male problems, it just sounded to me like you and Sarah found it amusing as if Men's personal problems are a load of garbage, if I have misunderstood your post then I apologize,
as for the main topic I can see both view points, I don't suffer from HA myself but I can understand HA suffers expressing their worries and anxieties on a site like NMP as they are seeking what we are all seeking which is comfort and reassurance, but I can also understand the other view point, I'm a root admin on a gaming site and I know how frustrating it can get when people don't post in the proper forums. :unsure:
We do have rules but how many of you have actually read them - go on be honest :whistles:
Hiya
I use to get announcements sent to me via pm but now they just seem to be shown as a post in the forum. I'm pretty sure not everyone looks at these posts (I always search all posts in last 6 hours so usually get to see them all but I think some people just look in certain sub forums). Is it possible to send the rules out to everyone through a pm?
This might help a bit or at the least it should mean everyone has a read through of the rules.
harasgenster
02-03-14, 23:28
We do have rules but how many of you have actually read them - go on be honest :whistles:
Hmmm...I may have read them when I first joined years ago, but I've re-read them now!
All very sensible, of course. Perhaps something regarding the discussion of physical symptoms/illnesses could be added? (Sorry, if that's already there and I missed it).
A reminder of the rules and a more strict deletion system would be of use, but I understand that takes time and it may be too much for a free site to be able to cope with.
nomorepanic
02-03-14, 23:30
I don't send the rules out via PM Kells as there is a link in the welcome PM that everyone gets. I doubt many people read it like they don't read it when they sign up either.
I stopped sending the announcements via PM as a) it usually crashed whilst doing it to over 34,000 members and b) I got complaints about receiving emails that were un- wanted.
It does say in the welcome PM to read the announcements forum but as they say "you can drag a horse to water ......."
Panchogoz I understand ricardo's post concerning Men's problems as I was concerned also when reading your earlier post about filtering out male problems, it just sounded to me like you and Sarah found it amusing as if Men's personal problems are a load of garbage
Certainly not. filtering does not suggest a forum contains "garbage" or anything laughable, just that it is not relevent to some people and I for one suffer from neither mens' problems or health anxiety, so I don't read those topics. I would fully expect most men would want to filter out "womens' problems". I trust there is nothing more to be construed from that matter
---------- Post added at 23:34 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ----------
I have to say I was thinking of leaving the forum due to what meets your eyes when first opened, but since the new filtering system was put in place I find it much better! I think it should be made quite clear to new members how to use it so that people don't get bogged down in something they find irrelevent and can't help with
I wouldn't filter out anyone's problems.
Barnabas75
02-03-14, 23:39
My last 2 cents. I think Nicola has been very gracious in listening to all our view points.A couple times she has mentioned the site may be going in a direction she did not intend the site to go.Its good to hear so many points of view and they all valid in someway.Quick decisions on serious matters that effect peoples lives are not easy to make.Her job is tough enough.Lets find ways to make it easier.But ultimatly we should respect her calls and support them.There are plenty of forums on cancer etc where people could ask advice directly related to their health concerns.I am guessing people are to afraid to go there.I supose a, Do I have cancer? sub forum would not be helpful as it would be straying from the initial purpose of this site.This site is in good hands with amazing members and staff.You guys will figure it out together.:)take care
I wouldn't filter out anyone's problems.
If you want to summarise my post in that manner you may as well condemn filterers for not joining the athlete's foot and classic car restoration forums as well.
I suffered from panic attacks and depression. If I was a psychologist qualified in that area, I wouldn't look for a job in health anxiety or stress induced impotence. You could even call them different disorders if you want to. You make it sound as if I'm suggesting some problems are unworthy of my attention which is not at all true.
If filtering allows users to enjoy the parts of the site they find relevent, surely that's a good thing. There will always be someone on each forum. However I understand the frustration of admins who must check all posts every day and must see a lot of repeat posts (and repeat offenders?).
20 years ago, a forum like this or the thousands that exist today weren't possible. Technology has opened the doors beyond what many have ever imagined. Read any forum or comments section of a website and you'll find responses from the insightful and heart felt to just plain nasty. I believe this and the people who participate existed way before the internet. The internet has just opened the doors for all to see the world for what it is. Frankly, it's not too pretty is it?
In reality, while this site and many other like it help others, it's just a click, power failure, hard drive crash etc. from going away. That's the reality. If you don't like something, all you need to do is click the little "x" in the upper right of your window and it goes away. What this medium has done in many instances is take away the "humanness" from us.
On the other hand and as is repeatedly demonstrated on this forum, there are so many people with caring hearts who truly want to help others and that, in my opinion, is what makes this forum valuable. It's much like the cancer forums I frequent. The people there have experienced what I've experienced and frankly, I don't know how I would have made it through without the help and advice I received.
I wouldn't be too concerned about putting someone off by this thread as I don't believe (at least in my opinion) that many get this far down in the subjects and read them fervently. I think it's a relevant discussion and one that has and is opening some eyes, mine included.
Positive thoughts
AuntieMoosie
03-03-14, 00:56
Firstly may I thank everybody for their input and opinions :)
It saddens me that I even feel the need to say this, but, sorry, I do.
Can people please make sure that they read the thread properly and not just take bits out of it. There are valid opinions on each side of the fence that all deserve to be read and considered :)
I'm finding it sad to see some posts being directed at Nic in a negative manner.
Nic has never, not would ever, say that people with Health Anxiety are not welcome here!.....why do you think she's got a forum specifically for that topic alone??
Also I have never said that people with Health Anxiety are not welcome here either.
NMP is a support forum for people with panic and anxiety issues and anyone with any condition that concerns panic and anxiety should feel very free and very welcome to post about that topic.
Support, advice and help will always be given to people with panic issues, no matter how that panic may materialise :)
All that we're saying is that we are not doctors and are not medically trained to even attempt a diagnoses, and I will never do that on principle, as Nic has tried to explain a few times now, imagine what could happen if we were to get it wrong??!!!
Also as Nic has tried to explain, this is not how she wanted NMP to be, it is not a diagnostic tool and we're just not qualified to be able to tackle those sorts of questions.
I can see that some Health anxiety sufferers are becoming upset and are misunderstanding what it being said here.
Of course you are free and very welcome, always, to post about issues with your heath anxiety and there will always be many of us who will support, comfort and advise you, but, only on the issue of the health anxiety itself and not the endless input of symptoms upon symptoms.
In my opinion it does not help the health anxiety sufferer to be focusing on physical symptoms, and reassurance is a very short term fix, it doesn't really help. What does help is to focus on the actual anxiety and panic :)
There is nothing wrong at all with someone posting along the lines of "I suffer with health anxiety, and a symptom I have is really making me panic" no, we wont be able to diagnose the symptom, but we can help and advise you about your panic and ways that you can manage it :)
I suffer from agoraphobia, it would be useless me posting "help me! I'm going to have a heart attack when I'm out" how could anyone help me?? But if I were to say "I need to go out today, but I'm really panicking" more people would be able to offer me advise on my specific problem, which is the "panic" not the "imaginary heart attack"!!! :winks:
That's all I've been trying to say, I certainly don't feel like I've opened up a can of worms, because I have explained exactly what I mean.
To be honest, I think that Nic has been very patient with this problem for a long time, but it is, in my opinion, taking over NMP and is making the whole site very negative. Sometimes when I've come in, I've just scanned down the first page, seen the endless symptoms and then just logged out, it does look very depressing and very negative and I, for one, don't think that is helpful to anyone suffering with panic disorder.
I'm also going to back Nic up 100% about the success stories and the stories of peoples progress, I love to see those stories and I love to be able to reply, but as usual, they are buried and lost in all the symptom threads.
A few of us started to show our crafts and to get people interested in crafts, they are, in my opinion, very helpful for people with panic and anxiety and they do aid recovery, but hardly anyone is interested, in fact all of the more positive threads that I see, hardly seem to get any interest.
Negativity is not good for anxiety or panic, yet people seem to spend a long time focusing on those threads, and very little time taking any interest in the more positive threads.
It really doesn't help me to see all of the negativity and that's why most of the time now, I log out very quickly.
By the way, I am not an admin on NMP, I'm just a member the same as everybody else, but this subject is something that I feel strongly about which is why I started the thread.
I know that I will be blocking posts from the health anxiety forum until something changes, and my reasoning for that, is NOT that I have anything against people with health anxiety, quite the reverse is true actually, but it will then give me the chance to reply to people who are discussing and seeking help for their panic and anxiety, and following and supporting those who are making a recovery :)
Love and best wishes to all :hugs:
---------- Post added at 00:56 ---------- Previous post was at 00:53 ----------
20 years ago, a forum like this or the thousands that exist today weren't possible. Technology has opened the doors beyond what many have ever imagined. Read any forum or comments section of a website and you'll find responses from the insightful and heart felt to just plain nasty. I believe this and the people who participate existed way before the internet. The internet has just opened the doors for all to see the world for what it is. Frankly, it's not too pretty is it?
In reality, while this site and many other like it help others, it's just a click, power failure, hard drive crash etc. from going away. That's the reality. If you don't like something, all you need to do is click the little "x" in the upper right of your window and it goes away. What this medium has done in many instances is take away the "humanness" from us.
On the other hand and as is repeatedly demonstrated on this forum, there are so many people with caring hearts who truly want to help others and that, in my opinion, is what makes this forum valuable. It's much like the cancer forums I frequent. The people there have experienced what I've experienced and frankly, I don't know how I would have made it through without the help and advice I received.
I wouldn't be too concerned about putting someone off by this thread as I don't believe (at least in my opinion) that many get this far down in the subjects and read them fervently. I think it's a relevant discussion and one that has and is opening some eyes, mine included.
Positive thoughts
Thank you Fishmanpa :)
I value your input and always find your posts interesting, supportive and helpful :)
This thread has made me feel that I can not be open and honest on NMP with my health anxiety, so i will sadly not be posting anymore. I don't feel like i could ask for or give help without being judged for saying the wrong things.
Whether that was the intention of this thread or not, it is how it has made me feel.
Auntie Moose, Nicola and all those admin who do such a sterling job for FREE I totally support what you are saying......I am a relatively new member .S...But I have seen a change in the posts. I will continue as best I can to guide people in the right direction..
Sarah
Catherine S
03-03-14, 11:43
I'm really not trying to be awkward about it and when i say i'm really confused by it all, its just that I really am :wacko: And its not about having a go at AuntieMoosie (apologies that I thought you were admin by the way) or anybody who runs the forum, as I do realise that its run on a voluntary basis and everybody works hard to make it a good place for sufferers to come to.
But I'm speaking as a fairly new member so I only know NMP as it is now and I chose to use it as it is now, and I see more people joining every time I log in, so whatever it was in the past, you're obviously still doing things right in the present. And whenever I scroll down the list of threads, I just simply choose to reply to the ones relevent to my own HA symptoms as these are the only people I can share my own experience of the condition with.
I can also see the other threads that you talk about, but don't reply if after reading them I feel I can't help...and have replied to some to suggest a doctor. But I just thought that was how the forum worked if you see what I mean? Each person who puts up a thread usually gets some answers so not many are ignored as far as I can tell.
I also read daily about the members who are on the road to recovery, managing to wean themselves off meds etc, so the success stories are there, but I guess there will always be more sufferers than recoveries.
As in any debate there has to be two sides and despite my own confusion, would like to go on using NMP in whichever way the owner and admins see fit to run it in the future.
I Still Believe :flowers:
If you want to summarise my post in that manner you may as well condemn filterers for not joining the athlete's foot and classic car restoration forums as well.
I suffered from panic attacks and depression. If I was a psychologist qualified in that area, I wouldn't look for a job in health anxiety or stress induced impotence. You could even call them different disorders if you want to. You make it sound as if I'm suggesting some problems are unworthy of my attention which is not at all true.
If filtering allows users to enjoy the parts of the site they find relevent, surely that's a good thing. There will always be someone on each forum. However I understand the frustration of admins who must check all posts every day and must see a lot of repeat posts (and repeat offenders?).
Yes I can see your point, I suppose what I'm trying to say is I just don't like the thought of filtering out everyone's problems, I can explain it like this I suffer from agoraphobia and panic disorder but wouldn't want to filter out everything except those two topic because maybe one day I might be looking on the site and come across a post regarding something with woman's problems, now it might not be relevant to me personally because I'm a Man but I may have a family member that has suffer from symptoms mentioned in the post and they have managed to resolve the problem I could then pass on that Information to the posts author, you never know maybe I might come across a post I can help with regarding classic cars as I am a mechanic :roflmao:
I have a classic car Alan,real classic maybe you could fix it.....Sorry from straying away from the topic,sometimes you got to smile:D
Petra x
I have a classic car Alan,real classic maybe you could fix it.....Sorry from straying away from the topic,sometimes you got to smile:D
Petra x
Lol I would be happy to fly over I could do with a holiday anyway :yahoo:
You are welcome here.Bring your togs the weather is warm,you will also fix my friend car it is what she calls ratshit.....lol:D.My husband is a Doctor I call him dr Feelgood we can discuss the topic further.See you in sunny Queensland:yesyes:
Unfortunately I think that many of these people are not in a place where they can actually do that. Their irrational thoughts have taken control and the rational part of their brain is not strong enough.
In the business I'm in which is essentially sales and customer service, I know that the customer will hear what he wants to hear. I can say "While there are no guarantees, your turn time is 5 business days from approval". The customer will hear "I'll have it in five days". This is not always the case but when the customer is stressed due to a deadline, they're going to hear things a little differently. It happens all the time.
I believe much the same happens in the anxiety afflicted mind. It becomes quite apparent after a few posts when this is happening. As one that tries to help, it's a very helpless and sad feeling knowing the individual needs more help than the forum can provide. Short of reaching through the screen and dragging them to a professional, what can one do? I know that the rational and logical posts are falling on deaf ears and blind eyes.
It's a sad reality in many cases.
Positive thoughts
Yes I can see your point, I suppose what I'm trying to say is I just don't like the thought of filtering out everyone's problems, I can explain it like this I suffer from agoraphobia and panic disorder but wouldn't want to filter out everything except those two topic because maybe one day I might be looking on the site and come across a post regarding something with woman's problems, now it might not be relevant to me personally because I'm a Man but I may have a family member that has suffer from symptoms mentioned in the post and they have managed to resolve the problem I could then pass on that Information to the posts author, you never know maybe I might come across a post I can help with regarding classic cars as I am a mechanic :roflmao:
Yes fair enough haha. I think the internet is too big personally, this is where all problems start :whistles: I guess we all use this site in different ways and for different purposes, for some it is a broad part of life, and for others they like it boiled down to the bones.
anxietyoverload
03-03-14, 13:33
I have spent the last hour reading every post on here - I should be working, woops!
I do indeed see both sides of the coin. It saddens me to see that this website is turning into something Nic did not want after she worked so hard.
When I joined this site it was very HA based and I did not realise that this was not how it had always been and not what it was intended for, so as all my posts are HA based and seeking reassurance from other sufferers - I apologise.
I fully understand that all AuntieMoose was saying was that people on here are not medically trained to say - no, you do not have this or anything else for that matter. However I also understand how this thread can make HA sufferers feel a but ''pushed out'' I don't really post as much as I used to, but I would definitely think twice before doing so after reading these comments. I for one know that in my darkest moments of HA this is the only place I can turn to speak to people who understand how I feel. As much as HA is a long term thing they can also come on in attacks, I'm sure 90% of the time when someone posts ''Its cancer, i know it is'' or something along those lines its in a moment of sheer panic and needing someone to speak to right away.
Having said this, I know that if you do not suffer from HA and you don't understand it, maybe it can be frustrating to see so many posts on it xx
bottleblond
03-03-14, 20:17
This thread has made me feel that I can not be open and honest on NMP with my health anxiety, so i will sadly not be posting anymore. I don't feel like i could ask for or give help without being judged for saying the wrong things.
Whether that was the intention of this thread or not, it is how it has made me feel.
Mondie please don't feel like that. Classic example for me.....A few years ago
I began suffering with Chronic Urticaria. My body was covered from head to toe in massive blisters, my lips and eyes were swelling and I honestly thought I was being sent for. I had no idea what was happening to me or why so I posted but not really expecting anyone to reply or even know what I was talking about because this is an anxiety forum. To cut a long story short, A lovely lady replied to my thread, she knew exactly what I was suffering from as she was a fellow sufferer and she helped me to the point I accepted the condition, I believed that it wasn't going to kill me and I began to live with the flare ups without anxiety. Now I had never met anyone in real life that had this condition and if I hadn't posted on the forum about it, I would never have had that help and reassurance.
I don't think the lady that started the thread meant to cause offence or to stop anyone from posting about their HA issues. Please please carry on posting hun.
Lisa xx
I remember that Blondy, long time ago ;).
Health anxiety is an awful thing, you can keep seeking reassurance and still your mind won't allow you to accept the evidence !!!!
bottleblond
03-03-14, 20:46
That's me to a tee mate. Lol :blush: Well used to be.
Yer yer I remember, was just thinking, 7 years ago, and I still think you're radio rental ;) x
bottleblond
03-03-14, 21:03
:roflmao: Phew!! I am so glad I never got sane, I would HATE that. lol x
Much of health anxiety revolves around accepting the evidence.
If you accept the evidence, and it is bad, how can we refuse you?
If you don't accept the evidence, and it is good, what can we do?
bernie1977
04-03-14, 10:51
Please, if I may, I'd like to put in a small request.
I haven't been on for a few days now, and when I did come here, I was blinded by symptoms!!!
"I've got this pain, I've got this lump" and so on...........
Now, before anyone jumps on me, I really feel for anyone who suffers from any form of anxiety, and here on NMP, we all suffer from it in one way or another.
I'm sorry to say this, but I cannot see the benefit of people asking us about physical problems, we are NOT doctors, and, in fact, all I'll do is advise you to speak to your doctor, as I will know as much as you do.
It's one thing to say "I get really bad migraines because of my anxiety" or any symptom related to anxiety, but the endless, "what's wrong with me" stuff is just getting too much, well, I'll rephrase that, it's getting too much for me!!!
What annoys me most about it, is that all of those kind of threads, tend to bury all of the others, then I end up missing something that I would have liked to reply too.
I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but it is my opinion, it's like it's becoming "No More Health Panic"
Please don't misunderstand me, it's fine for people to say that they are suffering from health anxiety and seeking advice, that's what we're all here for, but please, can we stop the endless symptoms, it's not helpful to anyone, as we know no more than you do.
While I'm on a roll...!!!.......lol :winks:
I also get quite miffed at the "I've got cancer, I've got MS" and so on, when, in fact, you haven't even had a diagnoses. It really is just shouty, drama stuff, and can also have an impact on other members.
Well anyway, sorry for the moan, but that's how I feel.
Agree with you Auntie Moosie. It stops me coming on sometimes as I start to think things after reading all the health anxiety posts.
To avoid them instead of logging in and viewing today's posts, I look at each forum individually and cut out the health anxiety & symptoms posts as I fear I'll start to suffer with health anxiety if I continue to read those posts.
People who have health anxiety have my sympathy but I don't see how reassurance can be got from the site as doctors opinions are questioned so why believe someone with no medical experience
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.