View Full Version : Please read this!
I occasionally pop back to this forum to see how you lot are doing. It's good to see inspirational posters like Fishmanpa, Kate, Nic, etc still hanging round to help people out on a regular basis. Although if I was any of these guys having been through what they have in terms of REAL illness I think I would have a hard time understanding what this health anxiety is all about and how people can get so bad with it. To people who haven't had it, it must seem like attention-seeking, or an excuse not to work, or just that we're a load of fruitcakes.
What disheartens me about this forum is that it's a never ending stream of symptoms from the usual suspects (and many newbies who are just getting into this health anxiety fad). I've seen it all before. Take a snapshot of this forum's first page today and it won't differ too much from the first page 6, 12 or 24 months ago. It's reassurance-seeking on a regular basis, that's all it is. A cry for help, from people looking for people who've also experienced the same symptoms and turned out ok.
What you really need to do, if you are one of these regular posters, is to understand that the vast majority of these symptoms you get simply come and go for no apparent reason. Speaking from experience, I've had most of them - if you don't believe me check my posts from circa 2009, and you'll find that I was a desperate mess of a human being back then, caught in the vicious cycle of health anxiety, panicky, agoraphobic, alienated from normal living. The fact that I've had most of these symptoms that you're constantly looking for reassurance about should give you some solace - although I've never had a lumpy anus and would never admit to such even if I did. Luckily I'm biologically unable to suffer the delights of vaginal discharge or heavy periods either (although as a man I realise I'll die younger, so swings & roundabouts).
I know I've waffled on a bit but I'm just trying to stop this madness - reassurance-seeking is NOT the way to cure health anxiety. Posting your symptoms on here will not help you in the long run. I'm not saying abandon this forum, just stick to reading the posts from the aforementioned inspirational ones, and you'll find yourself slowly getting better.
:yahoo:
Skippy,
You have several valid points/observations as usual. There have been several threads discussing this subject as well recently. There is no real answer or words that can be posted to change this. It must come from within. It's obvious that many great and inspirational posts fall on deaf ears and/or the individual is in a state of psychosis and unable to hear/see the wise words that are spoken/written. Such is the nature of the illness as well as the forum. One only need to view the posting history to validate your point.
Positive thoughts
I posted and subsequently deleted something quite similar a few days ago, as it turns out that some people believe, which of course they are entitled to, that posting about symptoms and seeking reassurance is the first stage of a process to recovery. I personall disagree with this viewpoint, but as it turns out the view put forwards above isnt a universally popular one on here.
I think you have a really good point. My anxiety regarding 'symptoms' posts stems from the fact that posters are incredibly willing to attribute other people's symptoms to anxiety, or worse to attempt some sort of amateur diagnosis based on personal experience and a google based medical degree. Personally I find this incredibly worrying and have pretty much stopped responding to any symptom posts on precisely that basis.
I think you are absolutely right, but unfortunately I think that this forum will always be over populated with symptom questions and a whole list of potential conditions, many of which I had never heard of before coming on here.
I agree with all of you above. I've had HA on and off for years, but I refuse to say what my symptoms are or to ask for reassurance, as I know that this will do me no good.
My rule of thumb, is if I have any new symptoms,unless I am actually bleeding or am in acute pain, I give myself a month before I make a docs appointment. Most of the time the symptoms resolve themselves.
I tell myself that if I have a serious disease like cancer, then a month wont make a lot of difference, and if it's a galloping type of cancer then not going to docs wont make a whole lot of difference to the outcome anyway.
I think a lot of us with HA, are under the impression, that if we can catch it early we can be saved from whatever "it" is. But by doing this we ruin our lives by always being on the alert.
We have to start believing our Doctors and not the health section in the newspaper.
Although I do understand people looking for reassurance, I will keep saying til I'm blue in the face, it's the panic and anxiety that needs addressing, and to resist asking for constant reassurance.
I couldn't agree more with this Skippy.
Joining this forum was great to cure that loneliness, but I feel it isn't the best in the fight against HA. From personal experience it's incredibly easy to post every new symptom in hope of someone saying "Oh I have that to! your fine!"
It ends up being a relatively constant thing until you notice it's pointless. With my HA the first thing my psychiatrist said was to not seek reassurance as it does nothing in the long run, he was right. This coupled with the fact that sometimes you even get someone else's symptoms makes it even more detrimental to recovery as you get into a cycle.
The problem is, reassurance is more easier than working through it yourself. it's a quick fix to a bigger problem, you can see this everywhere though, quicker is better, no matter what the quality.
As Fishmanpa said, people get blinded by their fears, I know I have many times. Ultimately it's down to the sufferer to see through it though, along with the emotional support, from friends, family, psychiatrists and this forum if needs be. I think sometimes though people prefer to stick in their habitual cycles out of fear of the unknown and lack of energy, I have no doubt that in their own time they can/will get through it, the positive posters as a shining example of this :)
I think that I might be one of the people you are referring to in your post. You make a series of very valid and sensible points and I don't disagree. However when you are in the grip of HA, truly in it, then unfortunately you just aren't able to think this logically and frankly it is just a case of 'any port in a storm'.
It probably doesn't appear this way but normally I am a very rational and logical person. I'm not hysterical or unintelligent or weak-willed but I succumb to bouts of very severe HA for which I've received two rounds of CBT and several different medications. I have very supportive friends and family but having not had HA they aren't able to talk to me at any length about it and find it very frustrating (understandably). Sometimes you just need to get through the hour or the day or the night and for many the way to do that is to seek reassurance, it's not a cure and it isnt anything like a step on the road to recovery but I'm yet to be convinced that it's detrimental either provided that the people posting on here are seeking practical methods to end the debilitating cycle of anxiety. It is a cry for help and people need to answer it, especially if you have been lucky enough to come out the other side. Maybe not by offering reassurance if you don't agree that that is the way forward but by suggesting other sensible courses of action.
Having an issue with anxiety, I feel judged and 'mad' enough and I think calling people 'usual suspects' and describing their behaviour as 'madness' is just not helpful. I know it's frustrating, believe me. But people need sympathy, maybe sympathy and a tough line, but that's better and more constructive than what can be interpreted as judgement. For me, it isn't just about reading inspirational posts, as great as they are. I need more (and I am actively seeking that help) and I need to feel like I'm not alone. I hope I will always be able to get that from this forum.
cut_out_stars
12-03-14, 13:22
I agree with so much of this skippy. Although for me personally I've found asking about certain symptoms / random body things on here to be of enormous help to me (whether that is long term help, we shall see)
While I think it's massively important to break out of the habit of constant reassurance, I'm one of the folks that believes posting on here definitely helps you up on the road to recovery from HA. When my HA took hold a few months ago I suddenly became aware (and still am, to an extent) of every little thing 'wrong' with my body.. Lumps, moles, nails, my heart beat, bruises.. Things that may or may not be new symptoms, but things I most likely wouldn't have thought about too hard before my HA flared up. Looking up, and posting about these and get responses from similar folks who could either say "yeah, that's normal" or, "I've been there" helped me greatly to start to be able to rationalize (rather than google!)
To me being able to rationalize sensibly is the really important issue, as I believe a small amount of reassurance is very beneficial.
This is a debate that will always be there, because we are all at different points of our journey. Reassurance is part of the cycle, and when in the rutt it is something we have all sought. Until the sufferer is truly ready and able to break the cycle then reassurance is a temp bandage needed to keep us together.
As long as the poster isn't asking for a diagnosis or seeking medical reassurance then I don't mind them posting, as long as they take advice to get help for their anxiety from the professional...because deep down I think most of these people realise the symptoms are anxiety...as they are posting them in the health anxiety section.
To people that are frustrated with the numerous posts, if you see a thread of this sort, stop yourself from reading it...if you know it'll only frustrate you...then distance yourself from that part of the forum. If there were one definitive answer to resolve anxiety....this site wouldn't be here anymore....each of us will find different things helpful.
To a certain extent any person will need reassurance or want to get information on health problems at some stage, whether they have anxiety or not. There will always be times when reassurance is needed, when we get confused, upset or simply when someone is having a really tough time and needs a kind word. It's OK to need that sometimes.
It becomes an issue when we continually seek reassurance without making much effort to deal with the anxiety - on the forums in particular it becomes obvious when posters ask about the same issues over and over again, or just post about their symptoms while ignoring advice to deal with their anxiety along with health problems.
There are some people here who only ever post about their own problems and never anything else. There are others who create lots of threads but give very little reply to the people who take the time to talk with them. More still who completely ignore most of what people say and only focus on symptom related replies.
Continuing to engage and reassure people like this will only keep them in the anxiety cycle, it won't help them at all and I believe it is damaging. What they really need is genuine help with their anxiety levels, a way back to rational thinking and a calm mind. I think the forum becomes a kind of crutch that people lean on, in the same way they might continually visit their doctor or the A&E. By reassuring them we enable them.
We need to give people the best help we can offer, and if that means withdrawing reassurance and urging them to get help with the anxiety it might seem harsh but ultimately if they work at breaking out of the cycle it will be far far better for them.
So, reassurance is fine to a certain extent, we all need it and each of us knows that anxiety is a horrible experience. But for those who have reached a very damaging stage of reassurance seeking, our continued part in that cycle will not help. I'd rather help someone conquer their HA than continue to pat their hand.
WOW!.... we seem to be having a lot of these type of "threads"........... Skippy I agree with everything you said
WE ARE NOT DOCTORS!!!!!
I try to be patient when I see these threads come up.... but sometimes :doh:
mummyanxious
12-03-14, 16:02
Agree with button, as I am one of the 'usual suspects' you refer to. And as button says we are trying to help ourselves but sometimes you want to hear from people in the same boat as you rather than be a burden to your family.
Put yourself in our place, how would you have felt reading a post like this in 2009???
Many good points have been raised here and to some extent I'm in agreement, HOWEVER, I have seen a couple of these type of threads pop up recently (have lurked on here for 5 years before posting) and I now feel like I'm being judged for my posts and that maybe I have no right to ask for reassurance. I don't think anybody who reads or posts on the health anxiety forum believe it is a fad and they're jumping on the bandwagon, it is essentially a part of a mental illness that we are trying to recover from.
I am sure for some people the feelings or aches and pains are very real to them and when in the depths of an anxiety moment it is hard to rationalise and be logical. Some people reply to posts,some people don't, some people can accept reassurance, some people can't, it doesn't make them any less worthy than others.
We all seem to share a common goal here in that we all want to get better after all that is why we view the health anxiety section of this wonderful website, and if I can help even one person in distress than I've done something worthwhile.
cut_out_stars
12-03-14, 16:27
Very well put 3tikes.
Agree with button, as I am one of the 'usual suspects' you refer to. And as button says we are trying to help ourselves but sometimes you want to hear from people in the same boat as you rather than be a burden to your family.
Put yourself in our place, how would you have felt reading a post like this in 2009???
I would have reacted the same as you, because back then in my mind I didn't have health anxiety, I had several serious illnesses and I was always about to suffer cardiac arrest from my palpitations. Looking back now, I can see that I had severe health anxiety, and this gave me more symptoms and more panic attacks. But hindsight is a wonderful thing and at the time, in the grip of HA, I leaned so heavily on this forum and the RLR forum.
So I can see exactly where you're coming from, but it's so frustrating for me because I found a way out and I want to guide you out too. There's no need for you to be wasting one more second of your precious life worrying about scary symptoms. I wasted 8 years to find this out.
You should be buoyed by the fact that I was so low and I have managed to come out of it. Hopefully that can provide some serious optimism for people struggling with this.
mummyanxious
12-03-14, 17:22
I've been there skippy. I've been well. I got out of it. But at the moment I'm low. I come here because I want people to talk to in a similar situation so I don't have to worry my family.
I can completely see how frustrating it is for others. I would feel the same if I were well. But when someone is brand new here sometimes these posts are too much and put people off coming back.
When I was first in here years back people were just as supportive but there wasn't this constant 'what are you doing for your anxiety' questions which feel sometimes like you should be well instantly and 'snap out of it'.
It's great you guys want to help and do help but sometimes the tome of some posts, not specifically anyone in particular, don't come across quite right.
Again, this has been a recurring topic recently. Part of the issue in a forum such as this and any for that matter, is that these are words on a screen. One cannot read inflection nor emotion into them even when emoticons are used :) :huh: :unsure: etc...... Ones state of mind when reading can and does influence the way in which we perceive the post. Some will see and take it somewhat personally and others will see it as spot on.
That being said, from my experience here and from my own personal experience, while reassurance is comforting and serves a purpose, in the long run, to continually seek it is unhealthy IMO. If one were to gain the strength to use reassurance to dig themselves out of the spiral, then it's served it's purpose. Unfortunately, when the cycle continually repeats, one can see and understand another's frustration. Wherever you are in the journey, there are times it's just not pretty.
Positive thoughts
Fishmanpa, you are right that it is difficult to judge tone and inflection through an email. I can't tell you how many arguments I've had with my husband because of something we've misinterpreted in the others email! However using terms such as 'the usual suspects' is simply disrespectful. Maybe it was meant in a lighthearted way but that wasn't the tone of the post and even if it was maybe it should be considered how it might come across when read someone else.
I think there's alot of emphasis on reassurance seeking here and yes I agree, it doesn't help in the long run and it is a crutch. BUT on many occasions it will build a bridge for someone to get from a place of panic to a place of courage to do something about the way they feel. This is my personal experience. It has also stopped me from falling further down into a dark place when someone has said "I've had this too. You aren't alone." Whatever people's opinions, there is some value to be found in this I think. As someone said above, if you find this frustrating, avoid the reassurance threads or post advice you feel is necessary and then wall away, confident that you've done what you can. But don't judge people or from your place of calm, expect someone to suddenly 'snap out of it' simply because you've been lucky enough to recover. It doesn't work like that, as many of us know to our cost.
I'm not saying that anyone's points are invalid or wrong, they're not BUT there are two sides to this coin and some moderation and sensitivity is required for people who are currently suffering.
No one here is talking about expecting people to suddenly snap out of it, or be on the road to recovery instantly. We all know anxiety doesn't work like that.
But I think it is fair, after spending lengths of time answering and advising posters, that not continuing with reassurance is an ok conclusion to come to. This is an anxiety advice forum after all, it's a resource for getting better not a crutch enabling people to live crippled lives.
Button you're right that just walking away and not replying to certain posters is the best thing to do here, so that people dobt end up frustrated. It is a shame to have to do that, but I've had to do it myself quite a bit because I realised I was only harming myself by wasting time & getting frustrated.
Dexterjames
12-03-14, 18:08
My doctor said that reassurance seeking is one of the main issues with health anxiety and when you slay that dragon as FishManpa puts it your on the wright track to recovery.
Its a very difficult mental state to overcome :weep:
I think there's alot of emphasis on reassurance seeking here and yes I agree, it doesn't help in the long run and it is a crutch. BUT on many occasions it will build a bridge for someone to get from a place of panic to a place of courage to do something about the way they feel.
The issue doesn't lie with building the bridge, it lies with whether or not one crosses it or even makes the effort to do so. If you look at someone's post history, you can see whether the bridge has been crossed or if someone has just fallen into the river etc. In fact, if you notice, when one is crossing the bridge there is an incredible amount of support and one has fallen in, again, there support is evident. It's when, regardless of how it phrased in the OP, one stands on the edge and never takes a step that the issue perpetuates and festers and one can see frustration on the part of respondents, and even eventually, a lack of them.
I equate things here to my own personal experience, we all do. For example: I have swallowing issues. I have to take a sip of water with practically everything I eat or I risk choking. I have to do swallowing exercises daily to maintain my swallow or I'll eventually lose it completely. So, do I complain about it or do I do the exercises? It's really no different with recovering from anxiety. There are therapies, techniques, exercises and drug treatments that will effectively aid you in recovery. So, do you do them or not? I can't tell you how many times I've posted the link to the free CBT course and never gotten a response or a note saying..."Wow... I have it and it makes sense". No... I'm sorry, I know only a few actually followed that advice (I corresponded with the author and she showed me the views vs. the downloads)...AND I'm not blowing smoke up someone's arse. I have personal experience with it and it's helped me!
This subject will probably be an ongoing debate and as was stated in a previous post on this subject, the forum and certain aspects of it have taken on a life of it's own in many ways.
Positive thoughts
nomorepanic
12-03-14, 18:24
To be honest I don't post much any more as I feel the advice I give sometimes falls on death ears and when you have said the same thing over 100 times you kind of give up saying it again. This is nothing personal to anyone on here it is just how I feel at the moment. I have been running NMP since 2001 so I guess I have reached a bit of a burn-out point.
I think it would help enormously if members used the search facility more and looked at "similar threads" at the bottom of the screen then they may not even need to post their concern as I can guarantee that we will have a post on just about any problem you post about.
Also take time to read the other threads in the relevant sub-forum.
If you have an ongoing problem then add to the existing thread rather then create new ones as well.
These simple things alone should make the forum less crowded with people posting about the same thing that answers have already been given to.
Just my thoughts anyway.
Worriedwellornot
12-03-14, 18:35
Hmm Nicola Frueudian HA slip in your first para!
Well said Nicola,
There are so many "repeat" questions that just a simple search would stop.
Sarah
nomorepanic
12-03-14, 18:49
Hmm Nicola Frueudian HA slip in your first para!
Huh?
Worriedwellornot
12-03-14, 18:58
Death ears !
nomorepanic
12-03-14, 18:59
Oh ok lol
Dying_Swan
12-03-14, 19:31
This is a really interesting debate and I can really relate to both "sides". I don't have HA so it's difficult to comment, but I do understand how it feels just be to able to go somewhere, write out your fears, and have someone tell you that they know how you feel and you aren't alone. That is one of the most wonderful things about this forum.
That said, I also agree that nothing can substitute the professional opinion of a medic and people do need to be careful about the information they rely on. I also understand the perspective that reassurance-seeking is ultimately not beneficial, but then when you are in the throes of a bout of anxiety, rational thought can go out of the window. I certainly don't have any answers, just wanted to add my thoughts :)
I think it is impossible for anyone who hasn't felt the sheer terror of HA to understand. I've felt this terror more often than I care to remember. Sometimes it goes away for years, and I think I'm cured, and then something triggers me and that's it back in to the cycle of fear.
Although I never post for reassurance, I tend to scour the forum for similar symptoms, which doesn't do any good either. It's as bad as googling.
There is no simple answer or cure, and I don't think there is any way to discourage people from posting symptoms. When you are feeling desperate, you just want reassurance from any source.
MarkJames3
12-03-14, 21:36
I have read through this thread with interest and there are a couple of things that stuck in my mind when reading…
Firstly what Primula says above… I have found sometimes this forum has heightened my anxiety even more and I definitely use the forum as a crutch.
What fishmanpa said also about people can give you as much advice as you like but its up to you to action it…. something I definitely struggle with greatly.
So many times people have said you should do this, try doing that… do I ever follow through with it? probably 1% of the time. It's too hard, as stupid as it sounds sometimes its easier for us to just lay down and continue in our misery because we have engrained that idea and habit into our heads.
Reassurance seeking I agree is the biggest hurdle to overcome… I think I am not alone in saying reassurance seeking controls my life in everyday… its become second nature and a habit. my reassurance seeking comes from anything like asking doc's, family members and friends directly about a symptom…
I also try and kid myself by asking people in a casual way "oh have you ever had this happen to you?…." I think if i ask in a casual and indirect way that I am tricking myself thats its not really a reassurance seeking behaviour…
It doesn't stop there though… quickly scanning my body in the shower, looking in the mirror after the shower… if I have an itch on my arm I then scan all around my arm trying to find something…
Asking about symptoms on here is a massive part of reassurance seeking behaviour.. and i do it, I know I do it but actually reading this thread had pushed me towards a place I think I want to be and taking away that crutch… it will be massively hard, probably seem impossible… It could even be likened to someone hooked on drugs…
If you read my other recent thread I mention about how uncertainty drives my anxiety… the unknown and all it entails but I have never actually thought until 5 minutes ago what if the unknown is a good place? What if I don't reassurance check and take away that crutch and have the uncertainty inside me.. what if in the long run that leads me to a better place?
Mark....I think you're getting it! It is difficult to stop checking but it can be done. I've managed to stop googling and reading the Daily Mail, it is difficult but you have to go and do something else, and in time it does get easier.
Threads like this are great, because they get people thinking and talking, and really help some of us make a breakthrough in our way of thinking,
Catherine S
13-03-14, 01:10
:scared15:
Let me start by saying ...I have Health Anxiety...... trust me I have it to the extent that when I take my dog for a 10 minute walk I take my phone just in case I should collapse from a heart attack. I constantly check myself from the moment I wake up.... I Google and I search for others with the same "symptoms" on NMP....BUT I will NOT post I thread which says "I have A,B,C do you think I have heart failure/cancer/liver/kidney failure etc".... why? Because I know that it is pretty unlikely that a Dr is going to be reading this forum and even if they were they would not be able to diagnose over the internet.
So if someone posts a "new" symptom every three days then quite clearly that person has issues with anxiety. And lets face if they were having a heart attack they would not be able to come on here and post a thread about it!
If people who come on NMP used the search button they would find a huge amount of information about their "symptoms" which would reassure them that they are OK.
As Nicola has said many times the forum has become something which she had not wanted..... this is a forum for anxiety, not NHS Direct, or a symptom checker.... there are loads of those elsewhere on the internet.
I sound harsh.... but if I can avoid listing my symptoms then so can others.
sarah
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