Any advice on how to deal with obsessive thinking?

[Charlotteee89]

I had a bad panic attack out of the blue 5 weeks ago which triggered major anxiety & obsessive thinking. :wacko:

It seems I have two parts of my mind clashing together - the rational & the irrational(negative) parts.

Irrational part - Constantly obsessing over the thought that I'm lonely & is constantly barging through other thoughts & memories of mine to prove why this is so. Constant "What if this, what if that?" "OMG this" are going through my head all the time. I can have very low moments when these thoughts have 'convinced' me. There's triggers everywhere also! I've also had intrusive, obsessive thoughts about suicide but they've subsided quite a bit, but not completely. It seems once I do seem to be getting through to myself that these thoughts aren't real & are from anxiety (basically not give them power) then my mind starts obsessing over something else. Almost like it's looking through my insecurities & fears to find something.

Rational part - Constantly going "What the hell?!" "OMG NO That's not true!" "STOP IT!" "OH SHUT UP!!" in response to my obsessive thoughts. I know deep down that I'm not lonely, just maybe a bit bored with my life & my mind has got boredom & loneliness mixed up. Or maybe it's focusing on the loneliness as it's more of a negative thought.

I can have moments in the day where I do actually feel 'normal' but then it's almost like I get anxious over NOT being anxious.. Like there's something wrong? :unsure: I'm also getting a lot of Anticipatory Anxiety.

I'm also worried that these low moments are actually depression... :weep: & That terrifies me, mainly because of the 'other' obsessive/intrusive thought that seems to come back strongly automatically when I feel low & exhausted. (I have NO physical impulse etc to do anything like it, it's just the intrusive thoughts that terrify me! Of course I think if I am thinking it then it must be true! :scared15:)

So... Any advice on how to deal with this? Anything you've found helpful?

I am seeing a Therapist but she's now on leave for 5 weeks!

xx

[MyNameIsTerry]

I feel a lot if the same.

Firstly, dont be afraid of depression. Its very common with anxiety disorders, infact I think its pretty much part of the journey.


Secondly, thoughts dont equate to actions. If you can see this, you are not suffering from a more serious mental illness since they dont realise its bad or wrong.


Thirdly, you will burn yourself out and feeling you are losing your mind by constantly fighting it.


You are telling yourself its not you, just your anxiety, which is good. Thats all part of CBT was you will be able to examine it further in your therapy.


The trouble is, you are fighting with yourself. You need to learn to calm your mind which will lessen the thoughts. Mindfulness meditation is good for this as it teaches your mind to let them pass with intense focus. They use this in CBT. There are some threads about it with resouces mentioned that will help and you dont need to wait for CBT to do it. It can takes months to learn to do but it can help you quite quickly with some for of it.


Distraction with interesting, creative and fulfilling activities as well but give them time because you need to retrain your subconscious to accept yourself.


Its hard, it will take time, but it gets easier.


Dont worry about intrusive sexual or violent thoughts. These are common to this, its as if your subconscious takes something acceptable and turns into something adhorent to your conscious mind, thus creating guilt and self loathing. I know you havent mentioned this, its just incase.


I think feelings of suicide are common. Doing it is the difference. I remember points where I would kill for a way out...but we dont...its nust desperation.

[Charlotteee89]

I think I'm scared of depression because of the suicide intrusive fear.. I'm so scared to get that low incase 'it' becomes an option or a way out if I get to a point where I can no longer cope or see a point in living. :scared15: Those intrusive thoughts already appear when I'm feeling low as it is. :/ They really frighten me.

I think I just so desperately want to feel 'normal' again so I get so annoyed with myself when my obsessive thoughts re-appear again! I just want my life back, I hate feeling so anxious & out of control everyday. I'm scared incase I do lose control & have a nervous breakdown or something!

I am definitely fighting with myself... Constantly looking & searching for reasons why these thoughts keep coming & when they do I desperately try to block them out which just makes them come stronger. :wacko:

I just wish my Therapist wasn't on leave as we haven't really got into CBT or Mindfulness... Even though she has asked me to look up Mindfulness.

I suppose it would be classed as 'normal' to feel low when intrusive thoughts about being lonely come into your head, it's not a violent or disturbing intrusive thought by any means. When I really think about it I get annoyed or low by the general-ness of the thought not necessarily the content of it.. If that makes sense? I feel low about the fact the intrusive thoughts won't stop & the fact they're forcing me to feel lonely when I actually don't feel that at all. Sometimes I do convince myself that I am lonely with no friends or anyone who cares for my existance for a bit then I become more rational & calm down & pick myself back up again.

Sorry to rant on! I think I'm just letting everything off my chest. :)

[Ikaeoph]

Everything you said I have and it is absolutely awful I know :weep:... but! I have found that taking a walk everyday will help you so much and also trying not to have a routine otherwise you feel like a robot, if you are spontaneous your mind isn't on the same track :) CBT is great for this as well but you have to treat this like a virus, do what it takes to get rid of it and wait patiently. I also stopped eating meat on new years day to see if it would help and so far I am a lot clearer in my mind and i feel less fuzzy :).you will recover with time just get the right therapy and eat/excersize and be spontaneous good luck :yesyes:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, I agree with the above from Ikaeoph. I do a lot of walking but it can become a routine and it becomes another OCD issue. You have to mix it up and avoid routines as much as possible, but it will take you time. OCD is very irrational and hard to understand so it's equally hard to control.

Get it out, it's better than obsessing over it. I'm sure loads of people on here know how you are feeling.

You WONT go crazy, trust me. I'm over quite a lot of the OCD now but at the height of it, it was very alarming. What I worked out from my CBT was that OCD was more an output of underlying problems with my GAD. I realised this because I started to have days where I felt better and the OCD calmed down but the minute the bad days came back, so did the OCD at full throttle. So, it could even be that you attack indirectly through relaxation.

I think suicide is worrying but you have to have a blocker to stop you thinking you could e.g. family. I've said many a time that I would have ended all this at the peak of it as it's not worth living like this, but I can't do that - I have a family. If you have such a blocker, employ it when those thoughts come. If you don't, it still doesn't mean you won't, just keep telling yourself that it's a stage and will pass.

For Mindfulness, there are free downloadable sources on the internet. I think there are some of the NHS somewhere. There are some threads on the Therpay board on here for CBT. Have a look at them.

If you wan't the newer form, Mindfulness Based CBT (MBCBT), look for prof Mark Williams who is the UK's expert on it or Mark Kabat-Zinn who started it. Both are available in WHSmith or online if you want to try a book. These are 8 week courses.

[Charlotteee89]

Everything you said I have and it is absolutely awful I know :weep:... but! I have found that taking a walk everyday will help you so much and also trying not to have a routine otherwise you feel like a robot, if you are spontaneous your mind isn't on the same track :) CBT is great for this as well but you have to treat this like a virus, do what it takes to get rid of it and wait patiently. I also stopped eating meat on new years day to see if it would help and so far I am a lot clearer in my mind and i feel less fuzzy :).you will recover with time just get the right therapy and eat/excersize and be spontaneous good luck :yesyes:

Yes I definitely feel more anxious over my routine! Especially being in the house all the time just stresses me out as I feel really isolated, imprisoned & lonely... :wacko: Being out of the house with people makes me feel a lot better.

I've definitely noticed that my obsessive/intrusive thoughts come more when I'm feeling stressed anyway (not stress over my anxiety problems just general, day to day, normal stress) which makes me feel more anxious to do stuff as I don't want to associate them with feeling anxious & get anticipatory anxiety every time I do it again.. If that makes sense? :unsure:

Think I'm going to try being more spontaneous! :yesyes:



Yes, I agree with the above from Ikaeoph. I do a lot of walking but it can become a routine and it becomes another OCD issue. You have to mix it up and avoid routines as much as possible, but it will take you time. OCD is very irrational and hard to understand so it's equally hard to control.

Get it out, it's better than obsessing over it. I'm sure loads of people on here know how you are feeling.

You WONT go crazy, trust me. I'm over quite a lot of the OCD now but at the height of it, it was very alarming. What I worked out from my CBT was that OCD was more an output of underlying problems with my GAD. I realised this because I started to have days where I felt better and the OCD calmed down but the minute the bad days came back, so did the OCD at full throttle. So, it could even be that you attack indirectly through relaxation.

I think suicide is worrying but you have to have a blocker to stop you thinking you could e.g. family. I've said many a time that I would have ended all this at the peak of it as it's not worth living like this, but I can't do that - I have a family. If you have such a blocker, employ it when those thoughts come. If you don't, it still doesn't mean you won't, just keep telling yourself that it's a stage and will pass.

For Mindfulness, there are free downloadable sources on the internet. I think there are some of the NHS somewhere. There are some threads on the Therpay board on here for CBT. Have a look at them.

If you wan't the newer form, Mindfulness Based CBT (MBCBT), look for prof Mark Williams who is the UK's expert on it or Mark Kabat-Zinn who started it. Both are available in WHSmith or online if you want to try a book. These are 8 week courses.

I've definitely noticing how bored I am now! Especially at home where my anxiety is worse anyways - But that could also be my anxiety over analyzing everything & making me aware of things that I wasn't before! It's hard to tell the difference.

I'm been feeling much better since yesterday, more 'me' but earlier at work I had a sudden bout of severe nausea & lightheadedness that completely threw me off & I thought I was going to faint! :scared15: I think it's due to me stressing about how much stuff I've got to do tomorrow & I'm getting anticipatory anxiety over it. I don't want my anxiety to ruin a potentially good day. :/ I'm trying to 'live in the moment' at this point in time though.

I feel my obsessive thoughts have come after a gradual build up of GAD - I've been getting more & more anxious over things over the last 4-5 months but I'm also very anemic which could of contributed to it.

Yes the suicide intrusive thoughts really debilitate me & I get so many connected intrusive thoughts like "What's the point in living?" "No one would care if you did it..." "I have no one!" "OMG this" & "OMG that" Etc etc. :wacko: They come & go now... It's mainly the lonely intrusive thoughts that are bothering me. If it's not one intrusive thought it's the other it seems... Constantly flicking between the two. :doh:

Thank you, I'll have a good look into the Mindfulness. :D

---------- Post added 20-03-14 at 01:19 ---------- Previous post was 19-03-14 at 23:24 ----------

Okay scrap the feeling much better bit ^^ I've been having bouts of nausea & lightheadedness for about an hour now. :weep: When it comes I find it so difficult to ignore it & it leads to me feeling even more anxious! It's a cycle really.

I'm also feeling really spaced out & 'un real' I think it's just down to my body being in the 'fight or flight' response mode (I think the nausea & lightheadeness are the first symptoms I get). If I'm not careful I could easily have a full blown panic attack. :/

Gah, I thought I was doing better! It's almost like I don't know how to feel positive now - I'm feeling so sensitized & alert. :scared15:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Thats very true. I've had it for 7 years and I cant remember how I felt before so its hard to work towards getting better when I dont know how to feel.

The nausea is unpleasant. Try breathing & relaxation techniques. At first I found counting backwards from hundreds whilst monitoring me breathing helped but not later on and be careful it doesnt become some form of counting obsession.

[Charlotteee89]

I've definitely come to the conclusion that my anxiety/obsessive thinking is triggered by being alone in my house.

I had a bad panic attack at home, at night nearly 6 weeks ago which triggered this current bout of extreme anxiety. So now when I'm at home (which is a lot unless I'm at work) I can't help but obsessively think about how alone I feel, imprisoned etc - all the thoughts I had during that panic attack. I'm very consciously aware of how dark & enclosed my house feels at night, with the curtains closed. I can feel overwhelmed. I just want to get out & go & socialise with people. I get all sorts of obsessive thoughts related to being alone especially one's about not having many friends (something that never even bothered me let alone occurred to me before) & therefore my mind is obsessively craving socialism & random intrusive thoughts bombard my head throughout the day. It doesn't help that I work evenings as I'm basically waiting around all day to go to work, so my anxiety is building up & is still around by the time I get to work. But it DOES calm down after an hour or so but when it gets close to the end of my shift the Anticipatory Anxiety arrives & I start feeling nauseous & lightheaded.

I'm not sure how I'm going to tackle this issue.. In the past with my Social Phobia I gradually exposed myself to social situations but of course with this issue I can't gradually expose myself to it as I'm at home all the time...

:shrug:

[MyNameIsTerry]

I know what you mean. At my lowest point with GAD, I was off work and at home. For a long time I have struggled with being in the same place as where I spent those times.

It's horrible not feeling safe & relaxed in your own home. I would rather it the other way knowing I've at least got a safe place.

This is why I found Exposure Therapy inaffective for me in many ways because I was exposed to it quite normally, not via a controlled experiment aimed at getting better.

You need to feel safe, trust yourself and feel relaxed. I was saying some of this on RoseEve's thread because I've found I could only reduce some aspects of my OCD via tackling it directly with CBT. I hit a point where the hardest OCD issues would only reduce slightly. What I later found out was that my GAD was the underllying issue as it came first, so I had to tackle my GAD which started to reduce those ingrained OCD issues.

Is it possible to tackle it indirectly in your case?

Do you think you need to learnt to trust yourself in those scenarios so you know you won't havce a panic attack? I'm wondering if practising things like Mindfulness meditation would help because you can practice that in those places where you are struggling. If you can make yourself calm, it might reduce it's grip on you enough for you to tackle it more directly?

If you are at home and you rang somebody, does it ease off until you are off the phone or do you need to be physically near someone?

Do you think it's a matter of not trusting yourself, not having confidence, etc?

[Charlotteee89]

I was thinking yesterday I'd rather have my more severe Social Anxiety than go through this. =/ I hate not feeling relaxed & happy at home, especially since I'm at home a lot.

Yes I don't think Exposure Therapy would work in this case only CBT & Mindfulness.

I need to look up Mindfulness Meditation to be honest.. I keep saying I will but I just forget! :doh:

I do think it all was all triggered by a gradual build up of a more Generalized Anxiety problem especially when my iron levels dropped very low.

I do definitely still struggle with my confidence but it's not something I'd say was a major issue now.. Maybe that's the point? I'm so much more confident now craving to do things that actually because I'm not doing as much as I would like I'm getting very bored when I'm at home (I can't drive yet either) which has caused me to get more anxious? Hmmm...

Because I spent many years pretty much house-bound now that I'm better I get this major urge to just be out in the World all the time especially in the last few weeks.

I do think I'm just bored with my job & not be able to be independent that it's frustrating me & leading me to feel stressed all the time... My mind needs something to think about so when I'm not doing much my mind starts obsessing over things it shouldn't. I think I've always had obsessive thinking to a certain degree... It's just now gone into over-drive with this current bout of Anxiety.

I probably do need to stop being so frightened of having a panic attack at home & probably do need to trust myself & not allow myself to get overwhelmed by boredom & routine.

& Hmmm, I think speaking on the phone to someone would ease it as I'd have a distraction but as I'd be in the house but overall, probably wouldn't make much of a difference.

[Charlotteee89]

Just want to type out my experience from today/tonight. I find typing it out quite therapeutic tbh.. Maybe as I don't have anyone I can talk to in such detail like I can on here.

I woke up pretty late & felt really tired & lethargic most of the day. In the evening it was my parent's birthday meal & I was feeling okay getting ready for it but as soon as we got there I just felt weird - really empty & depressed. I felt like a zombie. Like I was in this bubble & couldn't connect myself to the environment or my family who were around me. I had obsessive thoughts about being lonely & having no friends which made me feel even more low.

Afterwards we went out to a pub in the town & it was okay but I just felt out of place hanging out with my parents & older family members - I couldn't help but think I should be out with friends. Then an older friend from work text me & we decided to go 'out on the town' which I was sorta feeling but also feeling really anxious but I was a bit perkier by this point. We went to bar & I just wanted to leave as I felt empty again (it doesn't help that last time I was there I felt really panicky so maybe I was having Anticipatory Anxiety?) I felt better with alcohol in me but still couldn't control the thoughts. But I kept analyzing everyone around me feeling very jealous that they were all out with friends or a group of friends, I just couldn't enjoy the moment at all.

Later on we saw some work colleagues so hung out with them for the next hour or so which was okay, I felt better socializing with people more my age & having conversation with them. But I was still anxious. My older friend got a bit too drunk & went home so I was left with the work colleagues but I decided I had enough & got walked to the taxi rank & came home.

So now I'm feeling pretty annoyed with myself for having these thoughts. I cant figure out whether they're truly my thoughts or just obsessive thoughts. :unsure:

I was doing good for a few days then BAM I feel rubbish again which I think was triggered by being at home most of the day on Thursday.... Argh! :wacko:

[MyNameIsTerry]

I wonder if the thoughts of not belonging are a part of the depression side?

Perhaps you feel you have no self worth?

This might be where acceptance is required. I big part of the final push from existing well at work and flushing myself round the u-bend came this way. I'm not implying that will happen to you, it was just the last straw for me as I felt I had nothing. In reality I had a loving family and GF, I was valued in my work, etc but I just didn't feel it. It was like I was hollow for some reason. I felt no matter what I did, it was all broken so whats the point. I felt without purpose so again whats the point.

I still get a lot of this now, mostly when I hit a bad few days with the depression. It passes though. It's hard but all I've found so far to deal with it is distraction and activities where I can't think like that e.g. with other people. For some, it might help to have a cause e.g. volunteering, but I'm working towards that stage still.

When I was attending the self help groups they would always spend some time reading elements of the courses they ran, followed by a group discussion of how we felt about the module, do you feel that way, etc.

There a few that stick in my mind.

- All or nothing thinking. So, always putting pressure on yourself to push onwards. This sounds like what you were saying before in that you want to do so much and then get frustrated that you aren't. I think the Mindfulness will help here as that originates from being able to realise that you can give yourself a break.

- There was one about types of words that are common to anxiety sufferers at a subconscious level. It may have been part of the above. For instance, an anxiety sufferer will think or even say "I should" which puts pressure on yourself when you should say "I could". This is a bit like your feelings of not having a place as well as needing to do everything. Mindfulness will be one for this as well because it's about being content.

[Charlotteee89]

I definitely feel depressed when I'm allowing my thoughts to override me.

I'm still struggling to deal with how awful I feel when I'm at home, I really hate getting all these thoughts when I'm at home. Maybe, getting angry at myself isn't helping, maybe I've just got to accept it? Trying to ignore the thoughts will just make them come stronger.

I was feeling pretty good Tuesday, Wednesday & most of Thursday then BAM I've gone downhill again! I was out in the day on Thursday & I noticed my obsessive thoughts weren't as strong & I wasn't observing anyone around me at all. I was pretty chilled. But last night at the family dinner it was the complete opposite but I've got an idea behind why that could've been... When I walked into the restaurant my first thought was "Oh it's pretty dark in here, pretty claustrophobic..." So maybe it's not just my house at night that makes my anxiety worse, maybe it's the dark in general? When I went out later I was nervous about how I'd feel in the bar because it's normally quite dark & loud... I think there's a connection. I'm not saying my anxiety is non existent in the day but it's definitely not so severe especially when I'm out in public, in the day like it is when I'm out at night.

& Yes definitely, when my anxiety is sky high I definitely struggle with my self-worth, I become very self conscious & have no confidence, I feel so out of control & I can't concentrate on anything other than how I'm feeling let alone connect to people around me. I was like it when I had severe Social Phobia, the only thing I could concentrate on was myself & I was constantly analyzing people around me.

Yes, I probably am putting too much pressure on myself to feel better so when I have a bad few days I feel so rubbish. I think I need to stop being so hard on myself. There's too many "I should" thoughts in my mind all the time. :wacko:

[MyNameIsTerry]

I was just having a look for a link for someone for panic duration (I was given a grap to show how it goes up and down) and I came across this.

Some of what you have been saying appears listed at the bottom in the Agoraphobia section. It's a misconception that Agoraphobia is the fear of open spaces or going out. It can also be linked or triggered by Social Anxiety Disorder and can manifest as a fear of the place you had attacks in the past, even inside.

http://www.anxietybc.com/resources/panic.php

Some of that seems to fit with what you are saying.

So, maybe your previous Social Anxiety issues have led to this or perhaps because you knew what they felt like, having a panic attack in a place of safety led your subconscious to believe that it's a place it should associate with panic.

Perhaps the dark is one of your triggers. A lot of people seem to say it's worse for them at night...I'm more the day time from waking myself.

Exposure doesn't work really for this since you have no choice but to expose yourself to it and it doesn't make make you get used to it. So, perhaps it means dispelling the possibility of a panic attack being possible in that place?

[Charlotteee89]

Yes I was thinking of Agoraphobia last night ironically. Over the last 6 weeks I've been trying to do normal things but unfortunately sometimes when I have been out I've got quite panicky & I think I'm now fearful of going to that specific place again as I was previously panicky there (like the bar on Saturday night - I was very panicky there a few weeks ago..) & Obviously in the past I would ALWAYS avoid places that made me feel anxious so yes my subconscious is probably remembering that so it's making me feel anxious in places all over again.

I just feel a bit trapped to be honest, I can't relax at home or when I'm out (especially at night..) so I'm having bouts of feeling overwhelmed. In the day I'm normally at home as I don't drive but I get these massive urges to get out of the house, I feel like I'm in prison but the obsessive thinking isn't as bad that seems to kick in at night. I work evenings & I've definitely noticed I'm getting Anticipatory Anxiety over how I'm going to feel when I'm at work as I've had a few very panicky moments there during the last few weeks.

So yes I need to 'override' the feeling of fear/panic attacks in certain places, don't think it's going to easy though.. My subconscious is very aware of it.

It's all very frustrating, I don't want to be living in fear 24/7. :doh:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Trust me, I know what you mean.

I've been working on mine for a while but I started sliding backwards and now I'm trying to claw myself back to where I was late last year. So, for now I'm back at pretty much all day, in or out.

Perhaps trying going for a walk in the daytime then. Exercise helps and so does nature and walking can be gentle if your anxiety focuses on symptoms like mine does. Feed some ducks in a park or something. It can help, if only for a short time.

[Charlotteee89]

I think I'm just going to have good days & bad days until I learn techniques on how to not put 'power' on my obsessive thoughts. Some days I can 'block them out' other days I can't. Once you've triggered the obsessive thinking it's very difficult to 'turn it off' by sheer will power I suppose.

I've been looking up Obsessive Thinking & came across a lot of different techniques which I think I'll try, here's one I found really interesting - http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anxiety-files/200907/practicing-your-obsessions-the-boredom-cure

I've never thought about allowing my thoughts in as my automatic reaction is to block them out. It's true that if you try not to think about something you end up doing so but actually if you do try to think of something non stop your mind will end up getting bored & will start thinking about other things.

I think I will just have to break out of my routine of not doing much in the day before I go to work & get out of the house for a bit, but I don't want it to become a safety behaviour. But until my Therapist comes back from leave I've got to try & help myself. :)

[Charlotteee89]

Just to add.

A few weeks ago even at work I just couldn't concentrate, everyone was asking me what's wrong. I felt so low & I couldn't even be bothered. But at work this past week I'm definitely more 'perky' & more chatty & just generally more 'me' even though I still feel pretty low but I'm not sure whether I'm low about anything specific or low about feeling low? I'm so tired today which makes me feel worse.

I've also noticed that I'm feeling guilty about doing normal things.. Like if I'm planning to go out & socialise I get thoughts like "You shouldn't be doing anything because of your anxiety!" & "You're depressed, you shouldn't be doing that!" Like what? :huh: It's almost like doing things isn't fair on me or other people.. It's weird, I don't get it. Maybe it's because I don't feel comfortable & relaxed at the moment, I'm very fragile with anxiety & I'm trying not to provoke it anymore so it's like 'fight or flight'? Running away from the unknown. :shrug: Maybe, also, I'm scared incase I do get anxious or panicky & it spoils it? Hmmmm.

Also, when I am genuinely happy I almost feel wrong/guilty for it & my mind can't help but force the obsessive thoughts/thinking through? :unsure: It's like I feel wrong/bad because I wasn't anxious...? :unsure: