View Full Version : getting worse, another trip to A&E
Yet another trip to A&E, worst palpitations i have had. Literally thought my heart was going to stop, I even said bye to my mum thinking this was it. panic attack with no racing heart is just weird. one ecg done and blood tests (again) all come back normal. Bit worried they only did one ecg but doc listened to my chest and heart and out came the anxiety diagnoses. Been prescribed venlofaxine, anyone been on this?? Really want to believe the docs this time. I asked him if my heart was weak and he said no, I have a healthy heart. Beta blocker now been changed to modified release so hoping this will make a difference. Cant believe that your mind can literally make your heart do these things with nothing physically wrong. Docs have assured me it makes no difference if they do an ecg when I have palpitations or not, it's my mind affecting my heart. I asked him about an echo scan and he said it is not needed. Can a doc really tell what is gong on by listening with a stethoscope for 30 seconds?? He also said that it doesn't matter that I had no symptoms when wearing the 24 hour monitor, as it monitors you in your sleep. Suppose he is right. Just got home and feeling anxious. Finding it so hard at the moment :(
mummyanxious
29-03-14, 16:42
Well I would say that's massively reassuring. What a great explanation and sounds like they took a lot of time talking to you.
When I listen to them, I understand what they are saying but it's like there is a block in my mind to fully accept it, does that make sense??
Lisa.w1979
29-03-14, 17:45
aw, panic, im so sorry you're going through this. Its not your mind, well, it is, but its adrenaline. Can make all kinds of weird s**t happen. If u wanna chat, you can inbox me, or join the chatroom. XXX
Thanks Lisa, I will message you later tonight x
Lisa.w1979
29-03-14, 18:00
ok, i'll be here. xx
ankietyjoe
29-03-14, 18:04
At my worst my palps would fire off and set my heart racing at up to 180bpm, and my partner said she could hear my heart beating from about 3 feet away.
The key when it happens is to just not react. It's hard, but it works.
If the doctor says your heart is ok, then it's ok. If you can't accept that right now you need to find a way to or you'll just keep repeating the cycle of stimulus and panic.
It's not easy of course, but when your heart is racing just lay down, breath deeply and actually say to yourself 'it'll slow down in a minute or two' over and over again. It always does.
Hi ankietyjoe, this is the thing my heart doesn't get faster. It's gets very slow with palpitations. It's strange. Think it must be the beta blockers, but they are meant to stop the palpitations
ankietyjoe
29-03-14, 18:31
Hi ankietyjoe, this is the thing my heart doesn't get faster. It's gets very slow with palpitations. It's strange. Think it must be the beta blockers, but they are meant to stop the palpitations
Sorry my bad.
The same tactics apply though. If your Doctor has said your heart is ok then it probably is, especially seeing all the tests you've had have come back fine.
That's ok, I stupidly read that an echocardiogram (heart ultrasound) is the only way to see if your heart is pumping right or if there are any valve problems. the force of the beat goes soft in my heart and that's when I think it's weak. An ecg doesn't detect this sadly and they won't give me an echocardiogram as they feel it is not needed.
mummyanxious
29-03-14, 18:39
I always found palpitations far worse with slow heart rate simply because the 'pauses' are longer spaced as your heart is going slower if that makes sense.
So really though how do we STOP the adrenalin? I need to stop it. My body has been running on adrenalin for so long due to stress that now the stress is gone the adrenalin doesn't know that and keeps pumping.
It's vile it really is. Today going to the supermarket I was shaking all over, it was horrible, horrible.
It really is terrible. Hope you are ok. My heart seems to make like a ticking feeling like it is one beat instead of two, I get a run of like 50 in a row and get air bubbles in my throat. When I wore the holter, I didn't get any (always the way). The last week my heart has slowly felt like it is giving up. It's like the beta blockers are the only thing that's protecting my heart. Once the effects of them wear off (usually in middle of the night), my heart plays up and feels different. It never felt like this even a couple of weeks ago :(
When I listen to them, I understand what they are saying but it's like there is a block in my mind to fully accept it, does that make sense??
For me, Panic, this is an important statement that you make. What you say makes total sense to me
and this is very much worth pondering. If I may explain why I say this......
Its very good that when listening to the doctors you are able to understand what they say. This demonstrates their diagnosis makes sense to you. In that moment you are able to believe & accept the diagnosis. And that's just it.....
"In that moment" you feel reassured.
For me, the crux of your issues, is finding a way of absorbing the information & "staying with it". Continue to believe it. To accept & absorb the professional diagnosis & not to "slip back" into anxiety mode once you are out of reassuring clinical surroundings.
I know this is a very simplistic way of putting things but in many ways anyone dealing with issues (of various types) has to find alternative more realistic and proportionate views. They also need to trust in themselves & become able to talk themselves around in stressful situations. It takes alot of hard work & practice but it is possible.
It was a similar situation for me dealing with depression. I relate to the difficulties of really accepting & truly believing different more healthy viewpoints.
During my therapy, when "in session", what my therapist said made so much sense. I'd sit there in comforting surroundings wondering why all this "easy stuff" didnt just come to mind for me. I began questioning why I was unable to change the way I was thinking & feeling. It was hard work I must say.
Of course, every time I went back out into the big wide world, I'd forget half of what she said & then repeat the same mistakes over & over.
But gradually I became more able to see a balanced view & how my mind was distorting reality. I could detect when thoughts were running riot.
Sticking to facts was instrumental in stopping my worries.
Repeatedly I would ask myself "what is the reality".
Using these straightforward techniques, I became able to challenge undermining thoughts.
Something else critical to my recovery was trusting myself. I think that can be very difficult to do. When my therapist showed me how to challenge my thoughts, as I say..... It seemed easy, but when I was doing it alone I wasn't sure if I was doing it right. I didn't believe I was capable of that but now I know I am. It did take time but I got there. I use those techniques every day & my life has changed considerably as a result.
I don't know if you have tried CBT or anything similar but it helped me so much & was the foundation if my recovery. Anyway, i Hope my ramblings are helpful :-)
Thank you so much Tessar, really good of you to write all this. I am hoping to have my first CBT session next week. When i get home after the docs have said to me, i have loads of questions in my head. Things like 'I'm not having the palpitations/weird heart feelings at the hospital, so the ecg they did was not accurate' or 'if I wore the holter monitor on a bad day or for a bit longer, my results would be different and they would catch the heart problem'' and 'I need a heart scan cause an ecg won't pick up how my heart is pumping or if I have a valve problem'. These 'what ifs' drive me mad and are all I can think about. Really hope CBT can block these from my mind. I always think that the anti depressant medication they give me won't fix my palpitations cause it's a heart problem. If the way my heart feels went back to 'normal' I wouldn't be anxious. Too many things in my head, it's a vicious circle as they say
Hi panic I have been getting panic without heart racing for the last week which is really horrible so understand ur concerns when I had 2 ambulances out it was the same crew who know my brother in law as he works on ambulance they checked there own sats bp heart pulse etc mine were better than there's but still it's no comfort to me hope u feel better soon xxx
Yeah I think I'm on first name basis with most of the ambulance crew now lol. Thank you for your message, hope you are coping ok with it. Its nice to hear other people with similar problems. I always associated anxiety with a fast heartrate and getting hot, I have a slow heartrate and get freezing cold lol had to be different! X
I think I get so scared cos my symptoms can change quickly after days or weeks with same ones makes u doubt things xxx
Yeah I know what you mean, my heart feels different than it did even a week ago which brings all these fears into your head. That's why I struggle to get my head round the whole anxiety thing x
mummyanxious
29-03-14, 19:45
Yes you see you can rationalise its just putting it into perspective.
My dr is always very complentary of how far I've come.
People think I'm bad now, its nothing compared to what I used to be like a few years ago when I had NO insight into what was happening to me. I understand the workings, my brain knows. But when were in the midst for some reason the mechanisms don't click in.
I do wonder about focus. I am sure that if I were to really focus on my heart & how it is behaving,that I'd end up really worried too. Like times when I am trying to sleep & suddenly realise I can hear my heart besting away, or when I accidentally find myself focusing on my breathing. I have like everyone else) had moments when I worry about these natural functions stopping, but I know if I over-focus on them then it makes me feel worse.
So,,, with that in mind, if u dont mind me suggesting....what would you think to finding ways of altering your focus? That instead of repeatedly coming back to the same focus, on certain symptoms or body functions, you find ways if throwing a spanner in the works. Do something that breaks these thoughts and you focus?
Just an idea & I'm curious to know if this might help.?
Huh I get the air bubble feeling too; I've wondered if it's actually the esophagus causing this feeling? Though the slow beating really does it make it sound like the vagus nerve. I've had two echos btw, if that's at all reassuring to you.
I try to do things to distract myself, watch tv, listen to music etc..... but my heart is always in the back of my mind. Have you any suggestions what might help Tessar? I'm at my worst if I wake up in the middle of the night say 3am as I struggle to get back to sleep and I feel my heart is beating weird. I wonder in my head that i must have woke up cause my heart was playing up in my sleep. This seems to be the time I panic and usually ring 999. I tried today to switch the tv on to distract myself but sadly it didn't work.
---------- Post added at 19:54 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------
Going to look on the mindfulness website now Phuzella :) I'm quite early on in the panic disorder so think that's why I am struggling at the mo. I assume these both came back normal freaked? Were u experiencing the weird heart feelings when you were having the echo done?? I'm getting the whole camera down the throat thing to see if anything other than anxiety is causing my reflux. If something is found, maybe this is triggering the palpitations? Saying that, it's likely nothing will be found and it's anxiety lol
Try Headspace, and Mark Williams.
I'm the same I just crumble my left arm is a bit numb and shooting pains always left arm never the right but like usual my mind says it's my heart , but have had these symptoms before but because I'm in a bad spell at the mo it's something serious xxxx
yeah this morning was so bad I was 100% convinced I had a silent heart attack. No pain but heart not right. Totally freaked out. I am yet to experience the good days, the only time I can be a bit calm is if I'm being monitored at the hospital. Suppose that's where I feel safe. Getting a bit funny now, I'm always worse when near going to sleep. Going to try and read up on the mindfulness stuff to distract myself x
I used to b other way round Liked bed hated days but since I'm having more problems in bed I'm cracking myself I to feel odd mind is racing trying not to ring 111 again xxx
Try some of the YouTube videos
Thats so weird, exactly the same :) I used to be able to sleep for England, now I'm lucky if I get any. there is nothing wrong with phoning non emergency line, I would actually see that as a step forward for me from ringing 999. Depends where you are in your recover so to speak. I just did the first day on headspace as Phuzella recommended above. First 10 minute video. Was strange but at the end I realised I hadn't thought about my heart much for that 10 mins. Maybe have a look :)
Brilliant keep it up:). Honestly it does help a lot
mummyanxious
29-03-14, 20:46
Have you got a link for headspace?
I'm watching a film on amazon love film thingy and can't get any distraction been on net all day playing games etc nothing helping I think we may feel odd about sleep etc cos change is difficult when I have a routine xxx
Here we go http://www.getsomeheadspace.com/
mummyanxious
29-03-14, 20:51
Thanks :)
Gosh, Panic, it really is a 24/7 thing isn't it. So you must feel like you r living with it "all the time". With it being "all consuming", it must be really tiring & drag you down. when you have stuff like that going around and around in your head, it does become difficult just to get on with living normal life so to speak.
Best sit yourself down comfortably as i seem to ramble on rather a lot here..but once i get started its difficult ....
I have tried to compare this with things that I struggle with. For me it does tend to be "psychological" stuff so purely thoughts so at least I am not focused on my body. Actually, the closest thing I could come up with is a particular phobia I have. When at its worst is is all consuming for me. Before i started working in combating the phobia, everywhere I'd go.... Everything I did seemed like a huge risk. So much exposure. Would I catch this. Would I see that. If I did how would I get it out of my mind...... So many questions. And they just seemed to go on & on. I almost dared not do any research as the more I found out, the worse my phobia got.
I remember the first time I mentioned it to my therapist which was over a year into therapy as I was scared of "contaminating" my sessions by just talking about it (because talking about "it" would make "it" happen). This was a person I trusted implicitly & knew wouldn't laugh about my fear but the fear was even bigger than worrying about trusting my therapist.
In the end, I had to take some risks. To stop being "cautious". Initially, My therapist helped me look at facts & figures in relation to my phobia. I suppose that might be a bit like you having a diagnosis from a doctor which is factual. I'm sure I have read somewhere that "facts speak for themselves".
In my case I was looking at statistics. if i were in certain "high risk" situations (high risk as I perceived them) .... what was the likelihood of "it" (my phobia) happening to me. In the end I "took the plunge" so to speak. I did a few things likely to trigger my fears. Sometimes, if I had Ben around someone likely to "infect" me.... I could spend hours, if not days worrying I was gong to get ill.
I can appreciate the waking up in the night thing, I have had dreams where this "dreaded" thing is happening to me or people around me. when I wake it's horrible because again that triggers the fear. I feel like I have had it happen so therefore it was real. Then for a few days I am hypersensitive & on high alert.
I suppose my fear/phobia is real in the sense that it does happen to people and could happen to me. In the end, I suppose I learned that is therefore isnt going to go away. So I have have just simply "had to get on with it". I really have deliberately focused away from it. That really is my only option. I have no choice. I don't like it but it can't be magicked away. So.... When I am lying in bed about to go to sleep and the (once) inevitable video of this "plays" in my head.... I have to shout (not out loud of course) STOP!!! I make it stop.
I am no longer willing to let this "thing" take over my life and make me unhappy. I then do try to think of something much much nicer. or perhaps i focus on breathing exercises or relaxation. i am bigger than it. That is what I say. If all of this fails I will lie there repeating a word or words over and over. I don't allow any other words in my head at all.
Over the last year I have got to grips with it much better. I dont think about it anywhere near as often. Of course I still have "moments" & I know that will continue but it was making me so unhappy when it was consuming me all the time. I just get on with stuff.
In the end I was getting rather bored with it & did gradually decide I wasn't going to waste my energy on something so pointless. I must admit I am going to stop thinking about it now or it could actually have the opposite effect for me!!! But that's it. I have started to think about it which in itself could be risky. Bit now I am bored thinking about it so will change the subject in my mind, plus I am rambling now.
Anyway, trying to apply the logic to this while heart thing.
Just as it is for me, your issue isn't going to "go away" as such. After all, you need your heart to keep beating (she states the bloomin' obvious):lac:
So you can, like u already have, try thought blocking or changing the subject of your focus. It's not just a case of listening to music or watching TV. It's doing that 100% wholeheartedly. That is your full and total focus. You do not allow any other thoughts. You are focused away from those and you will not allow them in. They are NOT welcome. Be definitive. Be in control because you can be.
Is definitely hard in the middle of the night especially as it's something you can hear. when it's quiet & there isn't the hubbub of life to distract you, of course you will notice your issues more. If it were happening to me I would definitely try breathing or relaxation exercises since these would calm my body & mind.
If I were having difficulty sleeping, especially because if noisy neighbours, I used to get very angry, so u can imagine that got my heart pumping & that really didnt help me at all. This is why I think relaxing is so important, I would be gritting my teeth & winding myself up .... Pretty pointless since there was nothing I could do to stop the noise. Again eventually I learned to stay calmer. It is possible but not easy.
I wonder... What if you really turn this on its head and tried to welcome the sound and rhythm of your heart like a friend? Your heart is your friend because it's an important part of you. it could be a soothing & comforting sound rather than something fearful.
I think that's a big ask and maybe my suggestion sounds impossible or a difficult ask. But actually, something that came out of therapy for me is that a seed of thought was planted in my mind. At the time I would think it impossible or not suitable for me. But then it would grow on me.
Anyway, hoping again my ramblings prove helpful somewhere along the line.
:-)
Your body, ie adrenaline, is trying to keep you safe from danger, fight or flight. So to fight against it just prolongs the anxiety. When you think about it, our bodies are amazing, not something to be fighting against all the time:)
That's very true. This whole phobia thing I am on about. When I learned to be calmer about it, I was less anxious, less aware & that helped me chill out more quickly. Our Bodies really are amazing.
Thank you so much, I am going to try a few of the things you suggested :) it is very tough at the moment but I am going to try my best to have more positive thoughts and look a the good things the docs have said to me :)
50shadesofmessedup
29-03-14, 21:33
If this is any reassurance whatsoever I have had two echos and a cardiac mri scan and during both had long runs of palpitations. The doctors smiled when I got panicked and said that was as significant as hiccups or a sneeze. They weren't bothered in the slightest xxx big hugs Hun I lost two years of my life, my children growing up, I missed smiles hugs and laughter and went into a complete mental meltdown over these orrible things , u can do it xxxxx
Excellent Panic :-) That's made me smile. I find it so helpful knowing that if I have a bad day I can share my feelings here. I've also found having therapy so beneficial that I do like being able to share some of it with people. I really hope it helps.
I have had a good couple of days thanks Tessar. Hopefully the medication I am on is starting to kick in. Been doing the mindfulness stuff and reading up about panic disorders has helped a lot. How are you?
That's good to hear, u keep at it because it's early days but really worth the battle believe me. Thanks for asking how i am :-) Last weeks felt really tired but I made a point of catching up on sleep/relaxing. Had a couple Of walks too which I enjoyed. Gonna take myself off to bed in preparation for the week ahead. I know it's going to be a busy one bit I will find time for relaxation and walking. It's worth doing that as I helps me distress :-)
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