Harassment Question (URGENT)

[robinsky]

Good Evening,

I wanted to ask some questions about harassment and if you could help, it would be most appreciated. The reason I ask is because I've made a conscious decision to leave my job but need support in order to build up a defence suitable enough to basically close a stressful situation and go.

In regards to sexual harassment:

1) Is it sexual harassment if you hypothesize a situation, opposed to if you said you were going to do something? For example, if I said "Could you imagine if I touched her?" as opposed to "On Monday morning, I'm going to go into work and touch her." I've spoken to my HR and my CBT and they both agree that there is no intent/threat/sexual advance or violence in the hypothetical in relation to if you were going to do something. Is this correct? I am happy that if my doctor has said this and my Trade Union rep, then its defence enough.

2) Is an opinion considered harassment? I have been told it isn't. Also, I wasn't the one who said the statement in the first place. All I supposedly said (this is in relation to comments that appeared on my Face Book) is that they possibly could be. Therefore, in the real world, if I said this, I'm not saying they are, nor am I guilty of saying the original comment. I've looked up all the possibly synonyms of the word that was used and all agree that the word does not mean you factually believe they are. So therefore, how can you be held accountable because you're not saying they are that? I've asked around and people have said that neither party is guilty of harassment since it is an opinion and not a fact.

My Trade Union rep listened to the comments some while back and he said there was nothing there that immediately concerned him. Also, my HR told me that its very important about how things are worded and that makes the difference between something being trivial and serious and they said the first situation isn't gross misconduct because there wasn't any element of threat/aggression/sexual advance/intent.

I think my case is good but I just want to leave work - I've been off work for six weeks due to stress and anxiety and have made the conscious decision through C.B.T. that it is the way forward for me and have sent work a letter, detailing all of this so hopefully there will be a quick resolution to this.

Thanks for any advice. As far as I am concerned, if the experts are happy, so am I. Let work do their absolute worst. I am so fed up of this - its been going on for two and a half months.

[Fishmanpa]

You might be best consulting an attorney. Best of luck whatever happens.

Positive thoughts

[MyNameIsTerry]

Sorry I didn't get back to you Rob. I've been meaning to find some relevant legislation for you but when I used to do this it could takes ages going through various sites because there is a lot of 'Best Practice' out there which isn't really a legal requirement but could be in a tribunal, so it can be a pain to route through HR stuff. I'll get back to you about some of the things you said about your TU reps because I don't think they are doing what they should.

Really, I think you need a better forum than this in terms of the commerical world, this doesn't seem like the kind of issue for people on here and it's an international one and you need UK law. There are forums where there is a lot of things like MSE. A lot of the people on MSE work in those fields but may not declare it (as employers watch these forums) so they can be useful in prompting you to find what you need.

Here are some things you need to read through.

https://www.gov.uk/workplace-bullying-and-harassment

http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=306&p=0

http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/l/r/Bullying_and_harassment_employer_2010-accessible-version-July-2011.pdf

Something to determine is whether your situation falls under bullying or harrassment. From my experience, bullying (which is the lesser of the two) can be approached as gross misconduct. Bullying can be serious enough to dismiss someone so it's up to the investigation to prove the severity and for the disciplinary hearing manager to make a decision based on it and decide the correct form of punishment (if found to be bullying that is) which could be a formal written warning or dismissal for instance.

1) Since bullying is classed as making someone feel intimidated or offended, it wouldn't matter if it were hypothesized in my opinion. They could take offence to a hypothesis about them. If someone made an assumption and discussed it, it could be classed as something that could cause this. To be harassment, it would have to be about a protected characteristic. So, if you hypothesised or made an assumption out loud about someone that included their race for instance, it could be termed harassment under UK law.

2) Yes, an opinion can be classed as harassment where it is about a protected characteristic. If you verbalised your opinion about someones race or religion for instance.

I think the question is also about the severity of the incident in question. Whilst the above applies for bullying or harassment, it could be an extreme situation, be continual or be a one off or something less extreme that was unintended. The problem is, if the complainant went straight into a disciplinary stage, the company has to respond inline with their policies regarding it. The investigating officer might find it's all a load of rubbish, submit a report and the preciding disciplinary hearing manager could throw it out as such. This is why it's always advised to raise it informally first incase it's all harmless. Many times, it could even have been taken out of context by the complainant so a discussion (under supervision) can resolve it.

A doctor is not qualified to make a decision about HR policy or UK law. He/she can only give you their opinion as could anyone else. Imagine your HR person or TU rep diagnosing you - your doctor would think it ridiculous and potentially dangerous. Your doctor should have advised you to seek legal advice, so in my opinion, your doctor has acted badly there.

I'm not a solicitor. This is just my opinion based on experience and what I've read and attached. Have a look.

A question from me. Did the person do any of this?


Tell the person to stop whatever it is they are doing that is causing you distress, otherwise they may be unaware of the effect of their actions. If you find it difficult to tell the person yourself, you may wish to get someone else – a colleague, trade union official or confidential counsellor – to act on your behalf.
If you cannot confront the bully, consider writing a memo to them to make it clear what it is you object to in their behaviour. Keep copies of this and any reply.
Be firm, not aggressive. Be positive and calm. Stick to the facts.
Be prepared to describe what happened even if you find it embarrassing.

[blueangel]

Hi Rob

I know we've had a PM conversation about this as well, but as a union rep myself, I think you need to stick to the advice that your own union rep is giving you and not ask for lots of advice from different people, as it muddies the whole issue. Also, with the best will in the world, none of us on here know the chapter and verse of your employer's policies.

IMHO, you're creating anxiety for yourself about this and of course, this is making you feel worse about the whole situation.

If you're still having advice from your union, stick with this and don't go elsewhere at the moment, particularly not to any sort of legal advice. Your union will arrange this if they think it is necessary.

Terry has given some good advice above, and I also gave you my two pennyworth a few weeks ago. Take this on board, and then trust your union rep to help you out. He/she is trained and probably has a lot of experience, and then will call in help from a full-time officer or solicitor if it's needed.

Hope this helps.

[robinsky]

Hi Rob

I know we've had a PM conversation about this as well, but as a union rep myself, I think you need to stick to the advice that your own union rep is giving you and not ask for lots of advice from different people, as it muddies the whole issue. Also, with the best will in the world, none of us on here know the chapter and verse of your employer's policies.

I think that is a very sound point - I will take my union/hr advice as they both say the same thing - surely both can't be wrong? They should be the experts in this matter. I have had a nightmare with T.U. representatives - my first broke procedure and my second said he couldn't represent me anymore. I have gone through my local T.U. office and they have not gotten back to me, as of yet.

IMHO, you're creating anxiety for yourself about this and of course, this is making you feel worse about the whole situation.

The whole situation has been anxious for me since January - therefore, I have taken the plunge, written a letter to work and asked if a settlement can be agreed or failing that, would they accept my letter of resignation because a few people have said my happiness comes before any job. As already stated, my HR/Trade Union have given me all the info I need and I can accept that, so I think now is the right time to move on, personally.

If you're still having advice from your union, stick with this and don't go elsewhere at the moment, particularly not to any sort of legal advice. Your union will arrange this if they think it is necessary.

I am using the advice given to me by my union and T.U. who both generally say the same. I just hope work will accept that a severance package can be agreed or they can accept my letter of resignation - I have been so unhappy in my place of work for so long now, anyway.

Terry has given some good advice above, and I also gave you my two pennyworth a few weeks ago. Take this on board, and then trust your union rep to help you out. He/she is trained and probably has a lot of experience, and then will call in help from a full-time officer or solicitor if it's needed.

I have had a lot of issues with reps letting me down - I am still waiting to hear from my local branch - it has been very stop/start.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for all your help, Terry and blueangel. It is much appreciated.

Regards.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I've PM'd you back Rob with some suggestions of what else to look for.

Whilst I agree with BlueAngel, I would also add that I found some of the response you had from your rep to be questionable so I would be a bit more assertive with them. They can chase it up for you, your are entitled to a reasonable timescale and your rep can give them a nudge in the right direction.

[blueangel]

Sorry, I only long on here sporadically, so I didn't see the replies.

Yes, you're absolutely entitled to a reasonable timeframe of responses from the union. However, most of who are workplace reps are unpaid and have to fit in our union duties with our "real" jobs, which can make life quite difficult.

I think the key thing here is that HR and the union are saying the same thing. I would be more concerned if they were saying different things, to be honest.

In your shoes I would pursue the possibility of severance as at least it gets you some sort of dignified exit. Also within this, make sure there is agreement about what goes into any reference from your current employer.