View Full Version : lorazepam/ativan
Hey all,
Recently I had a mental breakdown. On the verge of suicide. Rushed to hospital because of depression and actively participating in attempting to kill myself etc etc. The anxiety and depression got far too much for me. I now have a mental health team who visit me every other day, and with plans to start 1-2-1 therapy once the home team have finished up.
Since my mental breakdown I have been doing fine this past week taking my Citalopram and Lorazepam. The Lorazepam chills me the hell out, but allows me to function, and I don't get any side effects from the 40mg of Citalopram as I've been on them a while now.
But, the doctor has prescribed pregabalin which he plans to keep me on and take me off the lorazepam. He said the lorazepam is short term use only. I am in total disagreement with him here because I've spoken to a number of people who have been taking them years. Yes, granted they are probably dependant on them both physically and mentally, but they take them daily to maintain a balance and function in life - and it works!
I discussed this with my doctor who said it wasn't ideal to keep me on them.
I have explained I struggle to swallow tablets, and the Citalopram and Lorazepam are both very small. But the pregabalin is huge and I've choked and vomited on them every time I've taken them. He wants to try and get me a liquid form.
I just feel it's pointless. The lorazepam works. I don't care about the physical addiction to them, because they make me feel so normal.
I don't get why some doctors are happy to keep patients on lorazepam, and others not.
The pregabalin is pointless, because I can't take them. I don't want to try other meds when I have a working combination here. So I'd rather stay on them until I've gone through my 1-2-1 therapy, and then when I've learnt to cope I'd rather come off the lorazepam and remain on Citalopram.
What is so wrong with this?
I just feel like if he's going to take me off them I'll end up buying them illegally because this is the best I have ever felt in the 12 years of battling anxiety and depression. I feel without this "normal" feeling I am just going to slip backwards again, as has happened many times in the past.
Any advice or help here?
I think you should trust your Dr and mental health team.
I am on Citalopram/pregabalin and use Lorazepam very occasionally (0.5mgs dose) when my anxiety peeks. Any valium is HIGHLY addictive and you will have HUGE problems trying to come off it.
Trust the pregablin it is brilliant for anxiety and allow the Citalopram to get in your system.
I have been in the same place as you i.e I was in a psychiatric unit last year and very unwell.
Believe me you do not want to get into a Benzo addiction!
Sarah
xBettyBoopx
16-07-14, 23:24
Doctors are supposed to be getting everyone off anything that ends in 'pam' it means it's a tranquillizer which is addictive.......der......... lots of things are addictive but I agree with you, if they work then why the hell don't they just leave well alone. They are addictive and quite hard to come off of but like you said you could take them for the rest of your life it wouldn't matter to you!
I have to say I am on them and don't know what I would do if my doc wanted me to come off of them because I have tried all this new medication and they make me feel ill.
Please don't buy them from anyone you don't know what you are taking.
I have know suggestions for you I'm afraid except maybe speak to another doc at your surgery!
At the moment, Benzos are the only thing that truly help me (I have severe agitation/restlessness/anxiety) but I know that I would never want to take them long-term until all other options had been exhausted.
Put the three words "protracted" "benzo" "withdrawal" into google and have a read of some of the stories there. Coming off them sounds like hell on earth for many people.
xBettyBoopx
17-07-14, 09:17
At the moment, Benzos are the only thing that truly help me (I have severe agitation/restlessness/anxiety) but I know that I would never want to take them long-term until all other options had been exhausted.
Put the three words "protracted" "benzo" "withdrawal" into google and have a read of some of the stories there. Coming off them sounds like hell on earth for many people.
I don't suggest that people google, they don't need to be even more anxious!
Everyone knows the risks associated with Benzo medications like Lorazepam, but I feel the borderline hysteria around them is very short sighted because somtimes for some people there really isn't a whole lot else that works.
Getting off them may be difficult but if done slowly it certainly isn't impossible.
The irony is that Pregabalin is a relatively new drug and it is rapidly starting to a gain a reputation as a medication that is abused - a medication with value on the street just like Benzos. It is also addictive in its own right and also has a whole host of side effects like weight gain.
So you can see your doctor is probably swapping you from one problematic medication to another. The pregabalin may or may not work as well, costs the NHS a whole heap more and will still require you to go through a slow and difficult tapering process when you need to come off.
If it were me I would argue the case strongly with the GP. But I do admit I am biased - I've been on Lorazepam for 8 months now and it is the best medication for anxiety I have found - this is after decades of switiching from one antidepressant to another. Just having the Lorazepam around means I am less anxious because I know I have the option of taking it if I need to - I started out being prescribed 3mg a day but lately I am actually using less and less - maybe .5mg per day if I get anxious in the evenings.
Maybe I am the freak exception to the rule that benzos are addictive? Or maybe the addiction thing is overblown.
As a pregabalin AND Lorazepam user I can say they are completely different in how they work and what it is like to reduce the dosages of both drugs, I have tapered off pregabalin VERY easily and it is not classed as an addictive drug like Benzos are. I still use 0.5mgs of lorazepam occasionally.But I know which one I would rather have in mh system!!
Sarah
As a pregabalin AND Lorazepam user I can say they are completely different in how they work and what it is like to reduce the dosages of both drugs, I have tapered off pregabalin VERY easily and it is not classed as an addictive drug like Benzos are. I still use 0.5mgs of lorazepam occasionally.But I know which one I would rather have in mh system!!
Sarah
Well with respect I disagree.
Not everyone fits the typical, which was my point really as some people taper of benzos easily too. You only have to type "pregabalin and addiction" or "pregabalin and abuse" into Google (http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6747) to see that many people have issues with it and it is becoming more widely abused, unfortunately.
Are you saying that the Pregabalin has less side effects than the Lorazepam? Seems odd to me given pregabalin is known for the brain fog and weight gain.
Give me the Lorazepam any day; at least the doctors know it is dangerous and prescribe it cautiously. Plus for me has the least side effects of anything else I have tried.
I believe Lyrica/Pregabalin will be considered the modern day Benzo in 10-15 years time. It is being dished out like smarties for people with all sorts of conditions, just like the benzos were in the 1960/70s. It took the medical community years to catch up then and I think it will be a repeat process now.
Plus from the OP's perspective it must be frustrating to be forced to stop taking something that works, and have to change to something that 1) might not work and 2) virtually guaranteed to have more side effects.
Well I think we will have to "agree to disagree" on this one:shrug:
Sarah
Hi yenool,
I did do a search on pregabalin and abuse as you said, and it turns out the abusers are taking two or three times the maximum prescribed daily dose in one hit.
These people are likely to be recreational drug abusers, not people seeking relief from an anxiety disorder.
There is no evidence that someone taking pregabalin at prescribed levels will experience addiction or abuse.
...hanshan:winks:...
I have not experienced ANY withdrawal problems from pregabalin at all!
sarah
...hanshan:winks:...
I have not experienced ANY withdrawal problems from pregabalin at all!
sarah
Yet in your pregabalin withdrawal thread (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1298550) you said:
This is a follow on thread from "pregabalin ...at last":D
Pregabalin SE's were tolerable until I realised that my anxiety was breaking through again at Xmas. So I did not see the point of carrying on if another drug could tackle both depression and anxiety together. SE's were; brain fog, short term memory loss, massive weight gain, blurred vision, fatigue.
I have been on 400mgs a day of pregabalin and for the last 2 days have reduced to 300mgs taken in one dose at 6pm.
Withdrawal symptoms have been so far; nausea, itching, headaches, stomach grumbles ALL in the afternoons.....1 hour after I take the evening dose these effects disappear..... oh! And I have started dreaming a lot just before I wake up (which is very odd for me).
The positive effect is that already my thinking is much clearer.... sharper thought patterns....which I did not realise had been quite so bad before.
[COLOR="blue"]
So you took the medication for a while and it stopped working (tolerance), you then came down on the dose and experience symptoms (withdrawal). You also gained weight, had brain fog, memory loss and fatigue (side effects).
All of the things I was warning about before.
Hi yenool,
I did do a search on pregabalin and abuse as you said, and it turns out the abusers are taking two or three times the maximum prescribed daily dose in one hit.
These people are likely to be recreational drug abusers, not people seeking relief from an anxiety disorder.
There is no evidence that someone taking pregabalin at prescribed levels will experience addiction or abuse.
hanshan, I'm not saying all people who are using it for anxiety or pain will abuse it.... but not all people who use benzos will abuse them either, yet doctors will not prescribe benzos freely because the RISK is there.
My point is Pregabalin also has the potential to be addictive and abused, just like Lorazepam. However prescriptions for Pregabalin have increased a lot!
Pregabalin is a good medication in the right circumstances. However it is not a wonder drug for anxiety that is necessarily better than Lorazepam, and the OP should not necessarily be forced to change over just because one has a reputation for being 'addictive' and doctors are too ignorant about the other to realise it is also problematic.
Hello yenool,
Well, from looking at some more posts on other sites (not NMP), pregabalin certainly seems to have the potential to be abused by certain susceptible people.
However, the people posting their abuse stories mostly seem to have taken an unprescribed megadose (ie more than 10 times the maximum prescribed daily dose in one case) from the very start for some kind of high effect. They also seem to be very knowledgeable about other drugs that can be abused, indicating that they may have a history of abuse of several other drugs.
There is no evidence that pregabalin is addictive among people taking it at prescribed dosages under medical supervision.
I understand where you're coming from regarding benzodiazepines - that using them on an ongoing basis to control anxiety has been demonised as an addiction when perfectly ordinary people are using them in an intelligent way just to get on with their lives. But you won't help your case by trying to demonise other medications yourself.
There is no evidence that pregabalin is addictive among people taking it at prescribed dosages under medical supervision.
I understand where you're coming from regarding benzodiazepines - that using them on an ongoing basis to control anxiety has been demonised as an addiction when perfectly ordinary people are using them in an intelligent way just to get on with their lives. But you won't help your case by trying to demonise other medications yourself.
I think your statement in bold is a very strong statement to make at this stage, it is quite a new medication and research/reports are only slowly coming through.
Here is an article for example (http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6747) and if you look at the 'responses' section you will see one GP writes:
I have never suggested that Pregabalin/Gabapentin were not effective nor that they shouldn’t be prescribed. Just as opioids and benzodiazepines are effective and important medications. But we eventually recognized that those medications cause widespread harm and prescribing was controlled. We do not want to make the same mistakes with Pregabalin /Gabapentin.
Or an example here where a patient started on a normal dose (http://journals.lww.com/journaladdictionmedicine/Abstract/2013/03000/Concerns_About_Pregabalin___Further_Experience.13. aspx) under medical supervsision and quickly started abusing it.
They handed out benzos like smarties for year before accepting they were dangerous and should only be prescribed carefully. Then it was SSRIs given out like candy and it took decades for them to catch up with the fact that they were harmful to some groups of people (cause suicide in some young people) and acknowledge the discontinuation syndrome. Now they make the same mistake with Pregabalin by selling it as a safe alternative to benzos or a cure all for chronic pain.
I'm not trying to 'demonise' anything. I'm simply pointing out that it is not a risk free alternative to benzos as it is sold to be. I'm not saying it is a bad medication or shouldn't be used, just that the risks should be weighed up against the benefits to see if it is worth it.
But whatever, I give up. Many people here would rather swallow whatever pills the doctors gives them without thought, rather than make an informed decision.
I am not going to argue with you about this Yenool. As my post says this was in the afternoons ( for a couple of hours) and perfectly tolerable.... unlike withdrawal from Benzos!
Of the 2 drugs (both of which I use) the pregabalin is the one that I would trust. The right dose is important.
And I agree with everything Hanshan has said.
I am not going to post on this thread again as you do not appear to want to listen to reasoned opinions.
Sarah
I am not going to argue with you about this Yenool. As my post says this was in the afternoons ( for a couple of hours) and perfectly tolerable.... unlike withdrawal from Benzos!
Of the 2 drugs (both of which I use) the pregabalin is the one that I would trust. The right dose is important.
And I agree with everything Hanshan has said.
I am not going to post on this thread again as you do not appear to want to listen to reasoned opinions.
Sarah
Uhuh. You were caught out saying one thing here to support your argument having previously said the exact opposite on another thread, and now you are calling me unreasonable! OK.
FWIW I will not post here anymore either.
(I did make a post earlier today which may show up later as it needed to be moderated for some reason?).
nomorepanic
23-07-14, 17:23
Your moderated post has been added now
Hello yenool,
If I can reply to the second example you give, the woman in question had a past history of alcohol abuse, and was initially given a dose of 800 mg a day.
For me, the warning bells are going straight away - that's 200 mg above the maximum daily dose in Australia and the UK, and I haven't heard or read of any doctor who prescribes that much as an initial dose. Usually it's around 200 mg a day or less as an initial dose.
Initial feelings of mild euphoria are a known side effect of pregabalin which some people experience. The point is that the euphoria doesn't last.
The woman described resorted to increasing the dose and doctor shopping almost immediately. Perhaps this may not have been the first time she had done this.
To me, this is a case of abuse by a susceptible individual taking doses over normal prescription limits, not dependence or addiction. Given her known history of alcohol abuse, she should not have been started on 800 mg per day. I would suggest something like a two week course of 75 - 150 mg per day, and then back to the doctor.
Hello yenool,
You say you are not trying to demonise pregabalin, but what are you saying?
What you are saying is this (which sounds like demonizing to me):
“Pregabalin is a relatively new drug and it is rapidly starting to a gain a reputation as a medication that is abused - a medication with value on the street just like Benzos. It is also addictive in its own right and also has a whole host of side effects like weight gain.”
“So you can see your doctor is probably swapping you from one problematic medication to another. The pregabalin may or may not work as well, costs the NHS a whole heap more and will still require you to go through a slow and difficult tapering process when you need to come off.”
“You only have to type "pregabalin and addiction" or "pregabalin and abuse" into Google to see that many people have issues with it and it is becoming more widely abused, unfortunately.”
“Are you saying that the Pregabalin has less side effects than the Lorazepam? Seems odd to me given pregabalin is known for the brain fog and weight gain.”
“I believe Lyrica/Pregabalin will be considered the modern day Benzo in 10-15 years time. It is being dished out like smarties for people with all sorts of conditions, just like the benzos were in the 1960/70s. It took the medical community years to catch up then and I think it will be a repeat process now.”
“My point is Pregabalin also has the potential to be addictive and abused, just like Lorazepam. However prescriptions for Pregabalin have increased a lot!”
Finally, some kind of concession:
“Pregabalin is a good medication in the right circumstances. However it is not a wonder drug for anxiety that is necessarily better than Lorazepam, and the OP should not necessarily be forced to change over just because one has a reputation for being 'addictive' and doctors are too ignorant about the other to realise it is also problematic.”
But then:
“They handed out benzos like smarties for year before accepting they were dangerous and should only be prescribed carefully. Then it was SSRIs given out like candy and it took decades for them to catch up with the fact that they were harmful to some groups of people (cause suicide in some young people) and acknowledge the discontinuation syndrome. Now they make the same mistake with Pregabalin by selling it as a safe alternative to benzos or a cure all for chronic pain.”
But another concession:
“I'm not trying to 'demonise' anything. I'm simply pointing out that it is not a risk free alternative to benzos as it is sold to be. I'm not saying it is a bad medication or shouldn't be used, just that the risks should be weighed up against the benefits to see if it is worth it.”
So let’s demonise the people taking it instead:
“But whatever, I give up. Many people here would rather swallow whatever pills the doctors gives them without thought, rather than make an informed decision.”
Frankly, ativan probably saved my life. I use it as required now and is the best med I have ever used for anxiety... Never been on anti depressants. I agree if it works for you leave it be. Its hard enough getting through life at times. This is the only medication that truely helps me live a 'normal' life. I am fortunate to have a good GP
If you acknowledge benzoate ARE addictive and the problems of withdrawal that you might face.
then the only other problem you might have is TOLLERENCE to the drug.
within 2-3 weeks your body becomes used to the drug
and soon needs higher and higher doses to achieve the original effect.
so long term usage is not ideal. But it is a very useful drug short term
Very sorry, I missed this post. I think it was moderated when I posted and thought it had got removed.
In the end I had to cold turkey off them. I'm over month cold turkey now and just starting to feel normal. I didn't agree with what the doctor did, but I am glad I am no longer taking them.
My anxiety is back to how it was before, so trying to manage that.
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