View Full Version : The TV show "The house of agoraphobics"
stevie boy
19-12-06, 23:10
wow just watched the show and wow the first woman who cant go on moterways wow her husband was so uncarrying to her saying he was going to take there baby away and not even wanting to hear her how she got on cos he was doing some work im sorry for swaring but what an *******
stevie boy
Excellent program. Each person is doing really well. I felt every bit of their panic. It was really wierd.
The agoraphobic fella is fantastic. Hadn't barely left his bedroom in FIVE years - now look....
I think i want to meet him ;)
Sarah
Well I have just finished watching and rather painful/panicky viewing it made too at times.
I made myself watch it though as I want to pick up any tips etc and despite crying a few times through it I am glad I did.
I think I identify mostly with the chap in the group, as he seems to have trouble with the idea of what other people might think of him if he panics and that seems to be the basis of mine too.
I really loved it when he and the Prof lay down in the street - what happened, did the world come to an end, did it cause chaos, no it didn't. Great exercise to help get over this bothering what people think!!!
I almost laughed but it was mixed with tears at the single mum running around the supermarket.
Painful viewing, yes - but I will be watching again tommorow night.
I faced my fears tonight albeit in a small way just by watching and not avoiding!! Well done me!!
:D:D:D:D
Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Fascinating. I want an appt with the Prof!!!!
Nel xxx
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
bluebottle
19-12-06, 23:31
Well done Piglet! :D
A journey begins with that first step. Corny, but so true, particularly in this case. I've suffered similar feelings. I remember being panic stricken about a boat trip around Poole harbour but when I actually did it I enjoyed it and was waving at passing leisure craft. We fear fear. Everything that leads up to that point is relevant, but in the end we are afraid of fear. That is a natural reaction normally, if your afraid then you know that there is something wrong. Fear is there to protect you. Its when there is nothing to fear that fear turns on you and enslaves you. Shows like this are superb, and the Professor is great, but the real stars are the three agoraphobics and people like them who face their fear head on.
--
Blue -
"Your truth is better for you than someone else's. Just get to know what it is, so you can finally own it, and speak it."
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/innerchildhealing/
As much as I know such people, I thought the programme portrayed the feelings of agoraphobics well. I was totally absorbed in the programme, and actually felt less panicky that I would be chatting online, surfing NMP or watching many other TV programmes in the evening. I guess that's a reaction to realising that a good many additional people were beginning to understand anxiety in general.
Funny thing was, I recognised the area where it was filmed which is about 15 miles away from me. My Dad lives there, and I actually visited him there today and even got a glimpse of the pub where we met for lunch[8D]
Can't wait for tomorrow's episode!
Ray
http://www.anxietyrelease.org.uk/
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
Paddington
19-12-06, 23:36
Yep ,me too.Just watched it!Wow i did identify with Simon,and the lady running round the supermarkrt ,well all of it really!!Well done piglet for watching it,i too got panicky ,palps and weepy too.Butit is a relief to know other folk have watched this so maybe undersrtand more?And also to be able to look at the people on there and say'THAT'S ME!!!'I will be glued to it tommorrow.Love M.R.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
we are all in the same boat and can guide each other ashore
...i am afraid to say i'm very much like the pregnant women. Take one look at what scares me........and run in the other direction!
I wish i had the b*****ks to FACE MY FEAR.
I am so poo :(
No Sarah you are not poo at all hun - like the prof says we are to try not to knock ourselves (guess we all find that one hard).
I really admire all 3 of them - they are all brave to tackle everything they have tackled.
This has made me want to redouble my efforts - at the moment I can shop ok by night time (not really big shops or by day just yet) and go out for evening walks. I can also go out in the car with other people. I don't have any trouble being alone when I am inside, it's outside that's the prob for me.
What I liked was that each of the people were a little different in how they had arrived at this state and also their starting points were slightly different too - so what one may find not too bad the other would find too much.
I have also been watching Monty Don and his programme about gardening and helping people on drugs and also his openess about his depression has been very refreshing too.
:D:D:D I do watch a lot of comedy though to offset some of these deeper progs - a bit of Peter Kay ususally sets me right again!!
Piglet xx
Sue K with 5
20-12-06, 00:04
Oh Piglet you have just described exactly how I felt.
I was at times crying my heart out, especially when she ran round that supermarket like a looney. I have done that so many times. What I admired was how she never left that shop, no matter how bad she felt she stayed. I too laughed when they laid down in the road.
I have at times wanted to stand in the street look up at the sky and shout
" Come on then ya bugger give it your best shot hit me with it " then ran for me life in case someone was actually listening.
I was very distressed during and after watching it but I will be watching it tomorrow night.
As for the husband well I have been there with my husband. I know how she feels and from experience I know that what he is saying will only make her feel more inferior not better.
Excellent but very tear jerking. I rang 13 people today to ask them to watch that, all non agoraphobic, will be interesting to see the feedback from them
Sue
xxx
scknight
One aspect that interested me was how people made the journey to the house in the first instance, when they could hardly venture out.
Why do you think they could undertake that? Was it the prospect of a one-off chance of some of the best treatment around, or perhaps wanting to tell the world how they felt and a yearning for understanding?
I think I'd feel safe in a team of such a renowned psychiatrist, moreso than just "Professor Smith" that may practice in my locality.
Ray
http://www.anxietyrelease.org.uk/
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
I sat with my children totally absorbed watching it, and could relate to each and everyone of them.
My eldest daughter said that I am so like the bloke in the programme it is untrue, even to the point of him wearing his sunglasses, something I always do when out, it really did make me think about how I need to start to deal with my agoraphobia again.
Looking forward to tomorrow's episode to see the outcome of it all.
Love
Trac xxx
'Live your life with arms wide open, today is where your book begins, the rest is still unwritten'
hi i thought they did really well i could relate to all of them i haven't been out for months it has been 2 years since i have been in a supermarket i could never take my daughter to school every body else has done that for me my daughter is 15 now and she can remember me trying to take her to school and then running back home with her because i couldn't do it i am going to try harder to get out i don't want to spend another year stuck in the house looking at four walls and wishing i could get out love marg
When the young man panicked in the car, I felt very emotional for him, he seems such a nice guy, I did have a few tears at that point.
But I was shocked about the way that horrible husband was threatening his wife , Id tell him to sling his hook !!! And hes supposed to be a clever man (not that clever).
The bit I found interesting was about sounds and noises, I get jittery if theres a sudden noise , If I hear people behind me in a shop and they sound loud or intimadating , I get panicky.
Isnt it intereeesting :D
My hubby was too sleepy to watch it all, but hes taped it, he said he really wants to watch it all ,so will watch it later today.
Also my mother in law phoned me up saying she was going to watch it, I dont know why but I felt embarrased talking about it to her,
I suppose its because Ive always tried to make out Im not as bad as i really am............
that song comes to mind........
"oh yes Im the great Pretender" lol
mirryx
I too watched the programme with my teenage daughter and we related most to the woman who couldnt take her child to school. And the way the husband spoke to the pregnant woman in the car brought back painful memories.
However, all the programme did for me was trigger off some awful memories and personally i dont want to relive them - I also woke from my sleep at 1.30 this morning with a full blown panic attack (something Ive not done in years!)
coincidence - im not sure - but dont think I will continue to watch.
........life is for living not just for surviving
Aww Darkangel hun - I can relate to that as it really was hard to watch!
Ray - I wouldn't have had trouble travelling to London with the Prof at my side :D he's wonderfully reassuring isn't he. Having the support by my side is the bit I need to let go of though and realising I am perfectly safe and my own support.
I'm really getting where he is coming from with the whole face your fear thing cos it's just a paper tiger but it's so incredibly hard to do in reality isn't it!
Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Maybe it's just me then, but at my worst there's no way you'd have got me to London. You'd have had to take me sedated and in a straight jacket.
I kept thinking, why are they not that bad?
The show didn't give any insite of living with agoraphobia. If I didn't know what it was like from the inside, I'd think they were making it up. There was no information on panicking all night long and every second of the day and never getting a break from it.
When I've had panics in super markets, you don't see me for dust. I certainly wouldn't stand round and chat about how I feel.
I'll watch tonight but I'm very dissapointed.
It made them look pathetic.
I did like the house though. the decor was nice!
Loonie, I understand what you are saying, for years when i was at my worst, I panicked 24/7, it was totally exhausting , I panicked out the house , in the house, with people , on my own, on the telephone answering the door etc.
But I have moved on since then , although I can now manage to shop at a few shops in my local high stree (not all of them) and speak on the phone etc, I still have agrophobia...it is never easy for me to do the things everyone else does naturally and some days I just cant face it.
However If I go into tescos with my hubby, I can have a racing heart, shakey all over , hot and feel quite sick, then get dizzy. But now days I Never ever run out the shop, I stay and tollerate the distress with all my might [:I].
So I can understand how those people can do what they can do but dislike what they are doing. (if that makes sence).
I think I am more like the guy, was his name simon ?
But I can also understand that agrophobia comes in many different strengths and usually changes over time.
mirryx
Hi All,
Really interesting program and very informative.
There are thousands out there that have similar problems/ issues and over all it is a worthwhile program. :)
I have even got my family to watch it, so they can understand some of my issues and not be in the dark about Mental Health etc..[8D]
Will def be watching the sencond part tonight - Just think another country like that is a bit too much for anyone!!! [V]
Oh well hopefully it will help out others learn about it and overcome any similar issues, etc.
Take Care all
LOL
Madmax
-*-
I was really looking forward to this programme, and made myself watch it even though I was worried it might give me something else to panic about ("oh look, that woman is scared of so-and-so, perhaps I should be scared of that too.."). I'm still reserving judgement, as I think they made it look a bit too easy for them to get in the car to London, get on the train etc. - I think it would have been more insightful if they had shown more of the therapy itself, and perhaps a bit more of the actual panic - but I'm going to watch again tonight, and I am feeling a little more determined to actually get a hold of my panic myself by doing what I'm afraid of and convincing myself that the bad stuff won't happen, so perhaps it has had a good effect.
I'm kicking myself for not having recorded it to lend to my fiancee, parents and future-parents-in-law though. My parents are the ones who know about it most, as I started panicking when I was 14/15 and continued to live with them just earlier this year (aged 24), so they've been through each panic with me. My fiancee is quite understanding now, too, though it nearly ended our relationship in Autumn last year as he couldn't understand or help me (he was 200 miles away at that time, but has since moved here to be with me), but my parents in law (and especially my future father in law), though they know about it and try to understand, still don't quite get it, and father in law will bring it up in conversation whenever they come to visit and ask me questions which make me uncomfortable. In fact, they are visiting again the day after boxing day with my fiance's cousins, and I'm dreading him bringing it up in front of them, as I don't want everyone knowing :(
--- Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal.
Oh my god - however did they manage even to get to London in the car.
It is very much about exposure therapy, isn't it. I have had CBT and it has helped me to take baby steps with my agoraphobia and driving phobia. I stayed in my house for about 3 years and there was no way with or without some else could I venture out on to the motorway. Whilst I can now go on the motor way, with my daughter driving, and me reading a book to distract me, I myself am still not ready to drive on the motorway.
There is also no way I could have stayed in a strange house.
Apparently, the man, after this programme is still stuck in his bedroom.
SHEENA
First post here, so, hi to all...
I thought the programme was interesting and at times as others have said very emotive, plus dragged up plenty of memories, etc. where I thought it failed was communicating what agoraphobia is to those who don't have it. This is reflected in many of the reviews, who feel sympathetic but still don't really get it... not that this is an unusual response in the wider world anyhow. So I think it might fail in one of the things I hoped it would do i.e. demystify the condition to non-sufferers.
I also wondered how much the camera being there played a part in the anxiety - i.e. where the guy is walking down the street saying the builders were looking at him & I reckon it had more to do with them being curious about why he was being filmed than anything else. Although as others have said the bit where he lies down in the street was priceless.
Has anyone thought of trying to invite them here to discuss the programme and how they are?
p.s. whether Archana (?) had agoraphobia or not the husband's attitude to his pregnant wife was totally inexcusable and is surely playing a massive part in keeping her where she is at... scary thing is, he is a doctor - gives you hope he'll be sympathetic to anybody who visits him with mental health problems!
Hi Timsum, You are absolutely correct, I feel it failed to explain to non agrophobics what actually happens to someone who experiances a panic attack, It did leave me feeling confused as to if some of the sufferes really had it ? But then thats how people look at me , Like I am being fussy sometimes.
As for that husband, Id love to tell him a few things!
I think the program should give this site a mention at the end of it.
mirryx
I had to watch this programme. It made me feel very uncomfortable in certain parts, and even set my panic off a little. I could most relate to the guy. Even though it's great to see people taking steps to getting rid of this hell, it also scared me a little to see how hard it was for them.
And that womans husband...what a complete idiot.
tonight they are taken on a 13 hour flight to Tokyo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will add no more - think it gives false hope to many people. It totally goes against the therapies as the flooding technique doesnt work for many people.
Agoraphobia can be recovered from - but in baby steps for a long term recovery.
........life is for living not just for surviving
I too found the programme very interesting and hope ALL of my friends and family were watching so they can start to realise what life is like for us sufferers!
I really admire them for getting in the car and driving them to London, It would have taken them weeks to get me to do that!
My mother in law watched the programme, she suffered years ago, apparently, and has phoned this morning to inform me that after xmas she will be coming round to take me out, for small trips, whilst this is really thoughtful and kind I do not want to do this, I am better on my own, and I want to try and deal with this in my own way. Now really stuck, dont know what to tell her?
I have decided, I think, not to see the hypnotist any more cos had six sessions and going out is no easier.
I cried lots when the little girl was with her mum supporting her, etc, and then when her auntie took her swimming etc, made me realise the kids do miss out on so much, but if we could take them out we would wouldnt we, my sister thinks I can just pull myself together for the sake of the children - if only if was this easy.
I will be tuned into tonight!
Take care
Lisa px
Hi,
I watched it lastnight even tho i had decided not to (cheers sue lol) I was abit scared to watch because i was worried it would make me panic. Im glad i did because i related to so much of it. I also thought i was the only one who wore sunglasses when i go out even when its not sunny. But i feel more panicky if someone makes eye contact with me. I feel like i have something written on my head or that people can see it in my eyes.
What did make me think is the fact that most of the fear comes from the anticipation of things. beacuse in all reality its never as bad as we think or imagine.
Wow made for hard veiwing but glad i did.
Take care
xxxxxxx
donna
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">tonight they are taken on a 13 hour flight to Tokyo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will add no more - think it gives false hope to many people. It totally goes against the therapies as the flooding technique doesnt work for many people.
Agoraphobia can be recovered from - but in baby steps for a long term recovery.
........life is for living not just for surviving
<div align="right">Originally posted by darkangel - 20 December 2006 : 12:30:54</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I agree...i've tried to push myself beyond what i thought was right for me at the time..and it just set me back even further. The only way i've ever got better was taking baby steps when i felt was right.
LickeyEndBlues
20-12-06, 14:09
I wasn't going to watch this but at the very last minute decided to give it a go. I don't suffer from agrophobia but thought it would be interesting to hear and see what it meant to people. Crickey.... an eyeopener about me in so many ways!!!
I agree with the observations posted, in particular I'm joining the queue to have a quiet word with Archana's husband.
What I found scary was how close I am towards agrophobia and I relate big time to Simon and his fears about what other people think. That has been a big stopper for me over the years and still is in many ways.
The sensory overload that was experienced in the supermarket is another situation that I can associate myself with at times.
Obviously the programme is a snapshot of the work that has been done with the intrepid 3some, none the less it was fascinating. I did feel though, at times, the therapists were asking leading questions of their charges.
It will be interesting to see how tonights programme pans out, recorder already set!!
Iain
What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?
fairyclairy
20-12-06, 14:12
I was so excited about watching it last night, went round to my bf's so hopefully he would get a better understanding of it.. started watching it, i was having a panic attack at this point, because i felt very nervous watching other people and i felt like i was in there situation, anyway, after 15 minutes of watching it, my bf didnt seem interested at all, he says he wants to help, but when it comes to it, he just doesnt seem to care, he said he wanted to go to sleep, so i went home, after slamming his door and in tears by this point, we had a huge argument on the phone when i got back home, we have never argued like that, he said i had a tentrem and i should 'grow up' etc etc.. i was still watching the programme at this point, still in an even bigger panic attacks, still in hysterics, had noone to turn to because my bf had put the phone down.. it was just one big disaster, i waited since november to watch one programme with him and felt hugely let down.. but as always, i was the one saying sorry and he thinks he is right... Men!
Watching the second part tonight because i know i need to watch it, even if it does upset me.. but watching it alone thankfully.
C xx
Before each of them got in the car to travel to London i'm sure they said that they had had hours of therapy to face the journey to the house, I wish they had shown more of this and more about the therapy itself.
They were so brave to face what they did on last nights show, and after seeing the trailor of tonights show and seeing them all in Tokyo[:O][:O] I'm amazed as most people do feel a little anxious about flying but to see agoraphobics travel on a plane is amazing bravery!
I think I relate to the bloke Simon more in the way that I think my agoraphobia and anxiety stems from my self conciousness and worry about what other people think.
Piglet I am like you as if and when I do venture out the house it is only when it is dark or very nearly dark, I dread the summer months when the days are longer and by the time the sun goes down its so late and by that time i feel too tired to do anything, My neighbours probably think im a vampire as well as a looney.:D
Looking forward to tonights show, I hope we get to see more about the therapy they used and the 3 people as recovered agoraphobics at the end of it!!
normalwisdom
20-12-06, 14:25
As soon as the programme started I sat and cried.......I could really relate to all of the people in some way and it made me realise how close I came to being like them too. If I didn't have the support of my Hubby I wouldn't be where I am now, so for the lady to have her husband think she can just snap out of it on a certain day was awful to hear and them for him to be too busy to hear of her accomplishments geeez!
I will be watching tonight (with my box of tissues)
I also have it taped to show to my family, although I do agree that at times the programme makes the people look rather pathetic, if I didn't know better and never suffered I would probably say "pull yourself together" it would have been nice to see more of them in thier day to day lives as I actually find life a lot easier when i am away from home so would probably have been fine in the "house" but then it is the going back to the situations closer to home where panics have happened before.
My Hubby pointed out that I have few problems when on holiday as I am probably more relaxed and as I have said, away from my familiar situations.
Oh I dunno lol[:I] it is nice to see it "out there" and talked about though.
Steph
Gotta admit...........the show made me very anxious indeed.
Afterwards, got a couple of non anx friends ring me....and quiz me about 'how my agorgaphobia was'. Shot my anxiety sky high.
Felt sorry for the asian lady - her husband was a total s**t
It was the bridge that got me......that triggered me off. Had to turn the telly off for a few seconds.....but then gained the courage to put it back on.
I think, like other posts here, they arent showing the daily feelings, lives and positions of the individuals. They seem to have made the reasons for agoraphobia 'matter of fact' - as if it was one event or one reason.
We know that is not the case.
Overall though.........it gave me a certain amount of motivation.
I do know it is in the mind....and accept that i have to face the fear and do it anyway. However, we (I) have certain stages of anxiety...where some weeks I have the motivation and courage to face certain things....and other weeks....cant even bear the thought of opening my front door.
For anyone that is interested..........i managed to download a complete cbt programme that includes a 250 page pdf assessment. Along with about 40 (20 minute) workshops. Im on my second week and am finding it interesting. Only in the fact that it is providing me with a structured approach.
If anyone is interested......am prepared to send files to you by email or set up a shared folder in msn.
If I could replace my Fear with Love - Even Jesus would ask my Secret !!!
I saw the programme too.
It also made me cry a few times, I could mostly relate to the man and to the woman who went into the supermarket. I have run away in the past, and I also worry what people think everytime i'm out.
I also agree with others about Archana's husband, I wouldn't want him to be my doctor.
I and also 2 other people I know who watched it, thought the same as what's been mentioned here. They didn't show about their daily lives, and I think they made it look easy at times.
I'd like to watch tonights though and I think it's good that it's making people more aware of Agoraphobia.
Heather x
Had to come and put my tuppence worth here..
Firstly i have suffered agoraphobia 12 yrs, no way could i get in a car firstly and drive to London, Simon showed alot of emotion which brought me to tears i felt every bit of his pain and anxiety.. On the first day a walk? I feel better already one quoted! Were they doped on medication in a busy London Street? Second day Supermarket? Once she did feel panicky she ran back to the man who then told her to look in to his eyes and after a minute of telling her positive things well she was fine! To me on a personal note it made a mock of ppl who are sufferers and it showed NO therapy tecniques etc either, aslo didnt show any form of anxiety in the house i live with it day to day why or where was the anxiety, sorry but if it was so easy to cure in a few days then Psychologists would be out a job it made it look such an easy illness to cure, entertainment! Made me angry infact cant wait to see trip to Singapore tonight of on a plane already, i couldnt get on a plane never mind a bus.. On another forum i Quoted: What a liberty! Well only my own personal opinion here mind, one other thing its personal to one person in show but the person actually made a 90 mile trip a few days before the show to visit a friend Hmmmm.. That wasnt mentioned huh! Not saying to much as a friend of hers told me. So their we go.. Right i wont say no more or ill end up getting booted <Grins @ Nicola> ;>
Hope you are all well Take care <Hugs>
Luvvas Caroline.x.
I'm afraid i wimped out after about 10 minutes as it made me feel anxious, especially the chap as that was me in a panic ,when he was in the cab.I also woory about what others will think of me.
Anyway started cbt today so will see what the future holds.
Linda xxx
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
To me on a personal note it made a mock of ppl who are sufferers and it showed NO therapy tecniques etc either, aslo didnt show any form of anxiety in the house i live with it day to day why or where was the anxiety, sorry but if it was so easy to cure in a few days then Psychologists would be out a job it made it look such an easy illness to cure, entertainment!
<div align="right">Originally posted by CarolineP - 20 December 2006 : 16:53:59</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
A valid point, but I think if you making a programme on any anxiety disorder, you have to consider the wider audience - could you hold an audience for an hour by just focussing on people stuck indoors? The programme did show people's resistance to stepping outside their immediate safety zone, and illustrated their fright at being taken away from it.
Most people watching these programmes will know little about agoraphobia, and we need to raise the level of awareness in those people as much as possible. It will also hopefully show the difficulties there are in achieving a result, but at the same time keeping positive.
Ray
http://www.anxietyrelease.org.uk/
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
Ray, I think your right, I wouldnt know how to get the message accross in 2 nights what its like to live with agrophobia ?
Really we needed a much longer show, starting with daily life in one , then therapy in another,followed by treatment and progress.
Ive seen so many programs make it look easy to overcome phobias,
I hope this isnt just another one ? we shall see :D
mirryx
I watched it and found it interesting. Lots of people are saying it never gave non agoraphobes an insight, perhaps this was deliberate? By that I mean, unless you experience agoraphobia or indeed an anxiety disorder of any kind, you won't understand. I gave up long ago trying to make my family understand exactly how it feels, they are supportive, but they will never know how it feels. It's just the way of it - their outook on the world doesn't change, it's only the sufferers.
Nel xxx
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
W.I.F.T.S.
20-12-06, 19:07
The professor from the show (don't ask me to spell his name!!) is from the Maudsley clinic in London. Here is their website http://psychology.iop.kcl.ac.uk/cadat/
For people living in and around London, you might be interested to know that they are always on the look out for people to take part in studies into anxiety/panic and they actually pay the princely sum of £20 for 2.5 hours of your time....obviously more if you do it residential. Sounds very worthwhile to me.
Ships in harbour are safe..but that's not what ships were built for.
I wasnt going to post , because in some respects im not sure what i think. i agree the indian ladies husband is horrible .
I dont agree that leaving the house with company is a cure. i can leave my house , but i have never yet managed to leave the house for more than 3 consecutive days . i worked really hard this week and took my dog to the field behind my house for 3 days in a row , all was going well yesterday i watched the agrophobia show and then later in the evening i was trying to measure my dog for a new coat , she didnt cooperate and i flipped out into full rage , i spent the rest of the evening unable to speak , lying in bed crying . my voice came back part way thru today but i dont want to speak anymore and spent the day in bed just getting up for an hour or so . I am seriously depressed. watching the show i guess did not help me , the worst part was the trailer for tonights show the thought of a 13 hour flight and seeing all those people in the streets of that foreign city was just too much for me so i am back to square one , who knows how many weeks or months it will be before i am able to get out again .
bb natty the miserable
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I wasnt going to post , because in some respects im not sure what i think. i agree the indian ladies husband is horrible .
I dont agree that leaving the house with company is a cure. i can leave my house , but i have never yet managed to leave the house for more than 3 consecutive days . i worked really hard this week and took my dog to the field behind my house for 3 days in a row , all was going well yesterday i watched the agrophobia show and then later in the evening i was trying to measure my dog for a new coat , she didnt cooperate and i flipped out into full rage , i spent the rest of the evening unable to speak , lying in bed crying . my voice came back part way thru today but i dont want to speak anymore and spent the day in bed just getting up for an hour or so . I am seriously depressed. watching the show i guess did not help me , the worst part was the trailer for tonights show the thought of a 13 hour flight and seeing all those people in the streets of that foreign city was just too much for me so i am back to square one , who knows how many weeks or months it will be before i am able to get out again .
bb natty the miserable
<div align="right">Originally posted by natty - 20 December 2006 : 20:14:24</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Natty don't let setbacks get to you! Dust yourself off and start again, I have made the mistake many times of letting setbacks get me! You can do it.
Nel xxx
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
Ray,
I totally agree and understand what your saying..
I just felt as i had said re myself personally that it took them one day to go out? Ive been in counselling for two yrs and can only manage out re medication i couldnt go out accompanied by however many ppl.. Never seen the girls once have a panic attack not a full hyperventillating one anyway seen them anxious, if i was to go out alone and without medication sorry id go into full blown, need paper bag the works.. Well dont know whats went on behind the scenes of show but would sure love to know how they managed to go out in one day! If it was so easy well NONE of us would be here wouldnt be any forum and like i mentioned Psychologists would be out a job ;> Catch yas laters Tc Mwah x
Caroline,
I suspect these agoraphobics were able to make the trip, albeit with a lot of difficulty, because of the prospect of progress, especially under the guidance of one of our country's top men in this field. Maybe the same journey may not have been possible had they just been visiting a friend or relative. I think motive has a lot to do with it.
They have gone to the House and also to Tokyo (tonight), but that does not mean they will be cured.
I too have been in therapy for two years and can relate to the apparent lack of progress but we will get there. It is probably helping you in the long term without you realising it.
Take Care,
Ray
http://www.anxietyrelease.org.uk/
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
nomorepanic
20-12-06, 20:55
I was crying after a few minutes when the guy was in the car and getting freaked - reminded me of how I was.
I think we are missing loads of stuff behind the scenes and they would have done intensive talking with the people prior to them going out.
Also for most of us we don't have someone with us that can help us control the panic when we do go out. If we did it would help immensely. Our own therapist would be able to get loads of us doing stuff I am sure.
It is worth remembering that a few people off here applied and were told they weren't "bad enough" to be on the programme so I don't think they have particularly picked people that weren't that bad and would be easily cured.
I just think with intense one-on-one therapy we can do so much more than we think we can and this will be what these people would have got.
I have met Paul a few times now and have great respect for the man. He tells it like it is and does some fantastic work with people.
I am not sure I would like the cure of flying off to a foreign country mind you - that seems excessive to me but let's see what happens tonight!
It would have been better to be a longer programme than 2 hours I think as they must have had so much material they could use and do it as a series.
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
I just kept thinking gosh that's me.
It saddened me a bit, to be very honest, when it occured to me that a lot of people would be watching it and thinking it was amusing.
Nel xxx
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
I think we are missing loads of stuff behind the scenes and they would have done intensive talking with the people prior to them going out.
<div align="right">Originally posted by nomorepanic - 20 December 2006 : 20:55:58</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Thats so very true, Having been involved in the program the BBC made about Nic they do tend to cut massive chunks out. We have 24 hours of video for the program that Nic made and on air it was 12 mins (Mind you they did keep the scenes with me in :D:D:D)
I met Paul at one of the conferences and he came across as a very genuine and sincere person
Regards
Alex
how come we never saw archana actually on the motorway or arriving at the airport or waiting for the flight or flying on the plane ? arent those the things that would be likely to cause us the most panic ?
I guess it all depends what you call success for me its being happy in an environment and not feeling sick with panic and anxiety, i would have prefered to see these people in those situations. im not convinced it would be what id call successfull, if it went well why didnt they show it.
bb natty
Hello, Tim asked if I would join the discussion. Happy to.
Some explanation: There is a huge amount of editing. For the two weeks, there were two cameras running, sometimes three.
Getting to the house: Myself and another member of the team went to assess, then when it was time to go went to have a session (up to six hours) to help each participant understand how panic works. Then used the journey to consolidate that and begin to challenge their catastrophic beliefs, help them discover the things they were afraid of would not happen, as in some of the posts I have seen in this thread.
What you see is of course what the programme editors think is good tv. Sometimes, good tv and good therapy don't always coincide. That being said, the production company (monkey tv) did an excellent job of balancing things. However, the bottom line is that talking about dealing with panic is less interesting that panic. The show contains just about every panic attack that was filmed, and did not contain the sections where (for example) we drove along the M4 to go to heathrow.
There are restrictions which do not allow filming on the plane. The first hour was hard work for all, especially su, archana and simon. however, pretty soon it all calmed down.
The problems of each were more complicated that is shown. this is not big brother, there were no hidden cameras, and participants were encouraged to ask for cameras off when they wanted to talk about something they didnt want to share. Also to ask for material to not be shown (provided it was requested on the day)
Happy to answer a few questions on the topic of the programme, but not necessarily instantaeously (have a day job to do)
With best wishes
PaulS
Having not watched the programme as it made me anxious- could yu tell us how they are doing now?
Linda
Really enjoyed the programme, I felt for all 3 of them it is hard enough to face your fears in your own surroundings, let alone doing it in strange places with camera's etc. I guess having the support network there really did help them though.
Was totally suprised at the end though as Simon seemed to have made the most progress through out the programme, so to hear he had stopped going out again was not what I was expecting, guess once the support is gone though some would find it hard to carry on.
My eldest has now decided I am being dragged to town minus sunglasses and being made to lay in the middle of the street, so if I disappear you know they have sectioned me lol.
Would love to know how they are all doing in a few months time.
Take care
Trac xxx
'Live your life with arms wide open, today is where your book begins, the rest is still unwritten'
normalwisdom
20-12-06, 23:28
Oh Trac lol.
I must say that when I acheived something.......like going on the bus the other week I was smiling so much I was expecting someone to come and drag me away LOL.
Steph
nomorepanic
20-12-06, 23:29
Paul - thanks so much for taking the time to post this message and explain a few things. Much appreciated by all I am sure.
Trac - I did laugh when he bought the sunglasses and thought of you mate!!
Archana's hubbie was a bit too mean for me lol. Bit harsh!
Simon - wow I was so upset to hear he didn't continue his success.
I wonder what help they got afterwards to continue the support.
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
Hmm not sure i should have watched this its left me feeling hopeless! it made it look so easy to just hop on a plane to japan when you suffer with panic & anxiety. I think it made anxiety look like a joke the way simon was quite happily shopping in japan then couldn't leave the house when he got home & then there was the pregnant ladies miraculous recovery! Not sure what the purpose of the programme was but i just think instead of educating people who dont suffer with anxiety its just made a mockery of people who do. these are just my personal views & i hope other people found positives in it but its really upset me.
love
suzy xx
Firstly, I would like to commend the three people who took part in the show. It was a very tough thing to agree to do, and they deserve medals for it.
I really felt for Simon at the beginning (show 1), when he got into the car, and headed for the House. I guess I related to him more than the other two because he is Male. When he got to the traffic lights, where he would normally not pass and started to panic, I really felt the Anxiety build up inside of me.
My concern with this type of treatment, is that these people have been stuck in their house for so long.... wouldn't it have benefited them to tackle their immediate surroundings, rather than be taken to London (then Tokyo) for Therapy? I honestly believe the hardest part of their journey was the first 10minutes (not just because it was the start, but after 10mins, they were away from what they knew). It's like being removed from a place of problems, and taken elsewhere.
I would like to know more about how they coped when they got back home.
For me, the show was well put together, and deserved more air-time.... perhaps if that was the case, more of our questions would have been answered!
------------------------------------------------
Is There Really Gravity, Or Does Earth Just Suck?
nomorepanic
20-12-06, 23:41
Can I also add that these sort of programmes are on a lot and we usually get posts on here so if YOU want to take part then keep an eye on the posts under "Media Interest/Research" and volunteer.
If you don't try it you will never know and don't knock it until you do.
Like I said before it is much easier when you have concentrated therapy and help but we can all get that if we ask for it so if you want it then ask the GP for it!!
Please remember that some people can be cured after years of suffering once their problems are explained and they understand them and this is what the programme portrayed.
Therapy does not cure you - you cure you - they show you how but unless you work at it you won't be cured. Just a thought.
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
Paul thank you so much for taking the time to reply :D
I definately got something from the programme and feel it tried to cover as much as was able in the 2 hours it had.
My favourite bit of the whole documentary and the most useful part for me was when you and Simon lay on the pavement (I've already mentioned that last night). I'm sure for Simon that must have liberating.
I had a long discussion with another member today or rather I discussed and she listened (sorry Bobsy) and we both felt that the largest part of our anxiety/panic lies in our fear of embaressing both ourselves and our families in public. Strangely we both felt that this wouldn't bother us in a new or strange town where no one knows us - it's only infront of people we are likely to see again. Not at all sure why this should be.
Piglet :)
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Thank you Paul for answering my questions , i have to be honest and say i am hugely surprised , i felt that maybe the show was edited in a way to make your approach look compltely succesfull and to make agrophobia and anxiety look like easy things to cure . i completly recognised aspects of myself in simon and sue , like simon i have had times when i have been succesfully able to go out unfortunatly it never lasts and i always wind back where i started .
bb natty
This programme has really helped and encouraged me!
I am agoraphobic, but I am not housebound. I suffer extreme anxiety and panic attacks when I go out and this programme has shown me that I am not alone. It has also shown me that I am doing the right thing by challenging and facing my fears. I had a panic attack in a shop today, but I did not leave, I took deep breaths and after completeing my transaction walked out with my head held high.
I always apologise to people when I have an attack because I feel embarrassed and ashamed, but I learnt that having a panic attack does not make me a failure. It does not matter if I have panic attacks, what matters is that I have a life.
Thank you for making this programme and highlighting the challenges faced by agoraphobics.
nomorepanic
20-12-06, 23:49
Natty - TV is designed to do that I am afraid.
When I did my TV programme it looked like I just got in a taxi and on a train and on a bus after one meeting with a therapist!
It didn't work like that but they never show the "behind the scenes stuff".
Trust me it was blooming hard work and lots of tears but I did it like the people on this show and we all can when we want to and put our minds to it.
Nothing can beat you when you have a mission in life trust me
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
Hi i must say i watched the programme with an open mind and spent most of it upset because i can relate to most of the guys. I think if i was told iam off to japan id have freaked big time. Sad to see simon not so good after the show , after showing the most signs of recovery.Ive always been told baby steps help to move on but your prog seems to grip the throut and pull full on (if thats the right way to describe)Is that the way forward?. PS iam south london so if you want to film me (with costs lol) be in touch lol
Mazz.
Sue K with 5
21-12-06, 00:00
I sat there in anticipation and I think I felt more panicky watching them on the plane and walking round tokyo than they did. I think they did amazingly well, but from experience I am not surprised that Simon had a set back.
All the time he has the support behind him it is much easier to push yourself. I was so impressed with sue as well. It is very difficult even with children to have the energy and the fight to beat this and as much as you love your child the fear is so overwhelming, and the fear of breaking down in front of your child is demoralising and you would much rather be locked in your house than humiliating your child in public.
I thought the show was very good but it left out so many important aspects, especially the parts which did not show what lead to their panic or the thoughts and feelings, like did any of them have additional phobias or anxieties as so many of us do ????
scknight
It was interesting to see that the two people who succeeded the most had an important family issue to achieve. Archana could have struggled with her marriage (with a baby on the way) had she not conquered her fears and Su had her child's education and wellbeing at stake.
It was far easier for Simon to take his foot off the pedal and retreat back into his bedroom without such a focus.
Liked Simon's photos shown at the end of the programmes[8D]
Ray
http://www.anxietyrelease.org.uk/
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
I found watching the programme very emotional and found myself crying at times because I could identify with so many issues in all of the 3 participants.
I am not suprised that Simon has slid backwards due to personal experience but why is it that this damn condition is so difficult to cure once and for all?
Lexxie
I would of liked them to wear a heart monitor so everyone watching would see that it is a real condition, that has real physical sensations.
My husband said that would of made him see what is actually going on in the body and people would be more sympahetic towards agrophobics then.
Paul , another program in the future maybe ? [:I]
mirryx
I'm really mad with myself. I was sick yesterday so i slept through 99% of the show. Could anyone tell me the outcome please??
Sarah
Hi All,
Well i wasn`t very pleased with last nights programme;
I was very touched in the issues they have and was dissapointed that all 3 had to be taken to Japan and didn`t feel comfortable..
Although the progress was really good within the two weeks. It didn`t show enough to believe the staff were appropriate. I suppose it is down to the fact it was only on for 2 hours.
It was a very good program over all and in some way was helpful to me as i am using some of that process today and hopefully be very helpful! ??
Well big challenge and hopefully will help others understand and over come their issues!!!!
Talking giberish and prob don`t make any sense..
Sorry Guys and Gals!
Take Care
LOL
Madmax
-*-
I felt for the 3 people involved in the programme and I take my hat off to them...they were very brave.
I am however not very impressed with the prof I think his understanding of agoraphobia is distorted...I think he expected far too much from them to even expect them to travel to London was too much never mind take them to Japan!!! I think it was cruel and he should seek his recognition elsewhere...I think he could of done more damage than good in the long run to those 3... that trip to Japan would of scared me for life...no wonder Simon took to his room again.
I think to recover from agoraphobia you need to build confidence slowly and have good experiences...not be thrown in at the deepend as that just makes the fear worse.
Those are my thoughts anyway.
Accept the things you cannot change and have courage to change the things you can.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I'm really mad with myself. I was sick yesterday so i slept through 99% of the show. Could anyone tell me the outcome please??
Sarah
<div align="right">Originally posted by sarahc - 21 December 2006 : 09:13:43</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Simon had a tough time again just 3 days after getting home, he was in his bedroom again.
Su still couldn't walk her daughter to school but she was going to the park and went out on a family day out with her.
Archana did the best really and managed to move to live with her husband.
I have to say myself, I don't think this kind of treatment is effective, i've tried this and it's only put me back in the same position or worse.
I'm so upset for Simon, i was really crossing my fingers for him, could we know how he is getting on now?
THANKS!
What a shame Simon isn't doing well. He was possibly the one who i thought WOULD overcome the fear. He was doing so well.
At least Su is trying with her daughter - what an amazing little girl to have such understand of her mothers illness. My son is the same age and is completely unaware mummy isn't "normal".
...Well....Archana! The one who resisted the most is doing the best. MASSIVE WELL DONE to her :)
Thanks for letting me know.
normalwisdom
21-12-06, 11:43
I think you are right about Simon Ray. He was the only one who (sounds awful) didn't have a reason to get better.....that sounds awful I know....but what I mean is the other two had children to consider, I know if I didn't have my son it I would probably be a lot worse than I am at the moment. It gave me the push I needed my son is only 6 and he has no idea I have problems and I don't want him growing up thinking that I do so I make myself do things for him.
Of course he wants to get better for himself and we all do really but it really does help if there is something there to give you that little "kick up the bum[:I]" pardon me french lol.
Hope I haven't annoyed anyone by saying this, there i go apologising again!!
Steph
Dear all
had done another lengthy response this am before my first coffee, then lost it all when I was timed out. silly me, will do long one offline next time
Further update
Su is taking her daughter to school, and has continued to improve
Archana is also continuing to improve.
It all rather emphasises the importance of having somewhere to go and someone to do it for (and support you when you do)
will post longer soon to clarify some of the points raised.
There is a phone in on CBT this pm 3pm bbc radio 4 on CBT
with best wishes and in haste
Paul S
normalwisdom
21-12-06, 12:05
There you go thats what I was trying to say lol wish I was clever![:o)][:I]
Steph
PS I'm getting hundreds of emails to me. I really cant' respond to them individually, I'm really really sorry about that. We have posted stuff on our website to help people as much as possible
see here
http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/iopweb/events/internal/?event=434
and follow links to
http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/iopweb/blob/downloads/locator/l_968_Panic_Disorder___Agoraphobia_fact_sheet.ppt
hope that helps
PaulS
Thanks Paul for responding to questions on this thread, it is much appreciated by everyone. I was amazed that Simon who appeared to have made most progress on the programme has regressed so much. I do believe however that it is easy for that to happen. You need to keep going with the exposure which can involve much energy and hard work. As you said Paul it is important to have someone in your life to motivate and support you.
Thanks for an interesting programme.
I will tune into radio 4 this afternoon.
chillx
Ray brought up that important point about Simon, Paul mentioned it too - motivation!!
We all need reasons and motivations to achieve our goals, so I totally agree that it was more likely in Simon's present circumstances that it would be hard to keep it up.
Paul - if you ever keep in touch with Simon would you tell him about this site and how well so many of us identified with him and would like to encourage him with his progress. Infact that goes for the girls aswell. They would get a very warm welcome I can tell you! :D
I am so glad this subject has been aired and I would love for you to do further documentaries in the future (if this is ever possible) - perhaps a slightly longer series and/or covering the day to day things we can do to help ourselves (Japan not being an option financially or otherwise for most of us[:I]:D).
Very best wishes.
Piglet :)
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Well, I feel a bit daft now! I posted about this show on the panic attack forum, not realising there was a whole pile of stuff on this one. Thought it was a bit strange that it had not been mentioned.
I found the show very moving. I was really rooting for all of them to succeed. Like other posters, I suppose I did feel a little that the show didn't get over the fact that people may live in a state of constant anxiety - it's not just when you are outside. I suppose I was also hoping that there would be a miraculous recovery for them all - even though I know from experience that these things take a long time. It's good to hear that the girls' are still improving. Simon did so well, I really hope he can seel further treatment.
I think the trip to Japan was a gamble but possibly Simon needs to do what I did - and I am not saying this would work for everybody by a long shot - but I broke a lot of the cycles of agoraphobia that I had by totally destroying my safety zone: i.e. moving to a different country, studying (which I always hated), being 12,000 miles away from my support network, etc. - it was hell nearly every step but 3 years later and it has made me realise I can beat this condition and do virtually everything (even if acutely distressing at times) that has suffocated me for years - still not going to the hairdressers but being an old punk guess that doesn't matter too much.
The reason I am saying perhaps it is what Simon needs is (and again this is only from the brief glimpse we got in the programme) he seemed to flourish when in Japan (and also when looking after the others) he was free of some of the expectations and internalised pressures he must feel from his family (even if they're very supportive - something I know I have felt).
Sometimes it is "baby steps" or just surviving each day or even minute but other times I have forced myself to make massive breaks and try and start again and I reckon these have worked in a lot more profound way... of course I am just saying this is my experience and not a prescription for all.
I feel very honoured to have the Professor answering our questions personally, thank you for doing so. I have 3 questions I'd like to ask:
1) Were any of the 3 on meds? This might be a question you are unable to answer, if so, in your view can it be done without meds? I take the odd valium but don't take anti-d's of any sort (and would rather avoid them).
2) I noticed that the out of the 3 the pregnant lady seemed to find the outings more distressing than the others. Do you think that is why she made such good progress? My CB therapist told me I had to experience some level of distress, it appeared ot me she was finding it more distressing than the others yet she seemed to have gained more than Simon after the 2 weeks.
3) When can I come and see you (lol)!!??
Nel xxx
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
Lol Nel - we are all queuing up!!! :D:D:D
Piglet x
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Lol Nel - we are all queuing up!!! :D:D:D
Piglet x
<div align="right">Originally posted by Piglet - 21 December 2006 : 14:23:40</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
;):D x
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
I think I must be in the minority here as I thought that the programme DID show the extent that people suffered with anx/panic throughout their general everyday lives.
I don't think that what the Prof did with them was anything new. It is what is told to us time and time again. The only way to get better is to get out there and actually face our demons and prove to ourselves that the worst scenario that we imagine will not in fact happen. We also know that running away from our distress only reinforces it.
The only difference with this programme to what we are told anyway is that for the majority of the time, they had either the Prof or counsellors with them talking them out of the negatives and really pushing them to face their fears and talk through how they were feeling during the panics.
I thought it was well presented and not at all sensationalised.
Kate x
"Everybody's changing and I don't feel the same"
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I don't think that what the Prof did with them was anything new. It is what is told to us time and time again. The only way to get better is to get out there and actually face our demons and prove to ourselves that the worst scenario that we imagine will not in fact happen. We also know that running away from our distress only reinforces it.
<div align="right">Originally posted by kate - 21 December 2006 : 15:36:17</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I think it involves a bit more than that. Yes we all know the concept, so why aren't we all just getting up and going out there?
I'll get myself on a 13 hour flight tomorrow in fact - NOT! lol ;)
Nel xxx
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
nomorepanic
21-12-06, 16:27
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I think it involves a bit more than that. Yes we all know the concept, so why aren't we all just getting up and going out there?
Nel xxx
<div align="right">Originally posted by Nel - 21 December 2006 : 16:17:35</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Ahh well that is because people are scared of what might happen and the usual answer to that is "I will die"! [}:)]
Of course you won't but unless you try and face it you will never know.[:P]
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I think it involves a bit more than that. Yes we all know the concept, so why aren't we all just getting up and going out there?
Nel xxx
<div align="right">Originally posted by Nel - 21 December 2006 : 16:17:35</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Ahh well that is because people are scared of what might happen and the usual answer to that is "I will die"! [}:)]
Of course you won't but unless you try and face it you will never know.[:P]
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
<div align="right">Originally posted by nomorepanic - 21 December 2006 : 16:27:50</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Not for me to be honest. I've never thought a panic attack itself would kill me. It's the thought of fleeing in panic which gets me, fleeing in front of a car or something like that (in other words, losing control). Anxiety has MANY different guises, it all comes down to the fear of the fear I guess.
Nel xxx
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
nomorepanic
21-12-06, 16:48
True Nel - hence the title of that book "Feel the fear and do it anyway". I like that title.
We are afraid of what we think will happen.
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">True Nel - hence the title of that book "Feel the fear and do it anyway". I like that title.
We are afraid of what we think will happen.
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
<div align="right">Originally posted by nomorepanic - 21 December 2006 : 16:48:03</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Yup, it's so true.
For example, I watched a programme once about NASA and the tests that potential astranauts go through. Of course it was just my luck that they highlighted their 'phobic' tests, and said that anyone even slightly phobic wouldn't be allowed to travel into space in case they tried to get out of the craft in panic. When I was watching them on the boat, I was petrified that the girl would jump overboard to escape.
The self control issue is my main fear.
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
I fall between the two emotions really - I used to feel the result of a panic attack is that I will die and I still do occasionally but far more these days it's a feeling of being totally out of control and how embaressing that might be in front of other people.
Piglet xx
the reason i dont think this kind of treatment would work for me is that, my problem is i dont think im going to die, i dont think im going to suffocate, the worst that can happen is i have a panic attack, and if put in situations like that, i WOULD have panics attacks, which would only reinforce my fear. The only way i've got better is by doing things when i feel i wont have panic attacks.
Yes, we DO all know the concept and the point I was making is that the absolute only way forward is to go out and do it.
I also don't think I will die from a panic attack. Those days are long since gone for me. I AM worried about looking a right dick in public but my main fear is of the fear, how it makes me feel like poo, how I hate the physical feelings of panic, the racing heart etc etc.
I don't think it matters at all whether we think we will die or not, the only way is still to go out there and do it, whether we panic or not. Running away from the situation that causes the panic only serves to reinforce it. Staying and sticking it out, no matter how bad we feel, is the only way to realise that nothing bad will happen no matter how bad the panic.
And before you all jump on me for my views, I will just say that I still avoid loads of places/things that make me panic.
I also know the concept but do not carry it out. I accept that this is my own doing and that if I were to keep putting myself in situations that I fear, then eventually the panic would lessen.
I would reiterate that avoidence only serves to feed the anxiety.
Kate x
"Everybody's changing and I don't feel the same"
I agree Kate, and as you suggest, its hard to carry out your beliefs and just go for it all the time.
I have had two similar challenges this week - having lunch with people at a time when I am no fit state to do anything inside my house. It means pushing the boundaries big time. One of those was today and I feel like crap of course.
But you know what - good medicine never tastes good.
Ray
http://www.anxietyrelease.org.uk/
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
Sorry Kate, the plane quip was more me making fun of myself. I agree with all your points.
Nel xxx
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
Do you think that it may have been easier to go out in places that were not so familiar?
This might be the reason why Simon got on well abroad. He didnt have any bad experiences there to remember.
When he got back home he was stuck again because he hadnt worked on getting out of his room/home etc very much and that is where he had experienced most of his anxieties/fears. These all returned to him as soon as he got home
The whole thing was concentrating on doing things further away. I think they should have worked on getting them out from their home and into the local enviroment more. THis is where they spend their lives not in Japan
What do you think?
Pam x
Yes I'd agree with that Pam - I actually find it easier to go shopping to a town an hours drive away, cos I am unlikely to see anyone I know there, than I do to walk up my own street - how mad is that!!!
I obviously have no hang up about how I appear to strangers then!
I've come to the conclusion lately that I think far far too much - so next year is going to be more of a doing year and much much less analysing things all the flippin time.
As Kate says, we know what we have to do but it doesn't mean we always manage it. Like I was saying to Bobsy sometimes it gets so tedious feeling anxious 24/7, so we avoid stuff to give ourselves some time off.
I really do want to get a handle on it but the handle's so slippery!!
Piglet :)
Piglet,
Similar to my feeling of being more comfortable taking pictures in any town but my own :D
Ray
http://www.anxietyrelease.org.uk/
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
the programme when advertised said of "ground breaking therapy" i take it the going to tokyo bit was the ground breaking therapy?this in any other terms would be called flooding and could easily have been done down oxford st on any saturday-fair enough it was something different for them to try but being out of there comfort zone was going to the local shops not tokyo...this production company also contacted a friend of mine to appear on house of social phobics-he runs a sa n agoraphobic help,line-it couldnt work in a million years for sa as to many issues and so many people have different anxiety triggers.
all in all it was a brave attempt but it has helped noone conquer there fears...dr p s i expect you to differ but i feel u threw them in the deep end and expected them to come up swimming,no doubt the woman who hated motorways n finally got to her husbands house is now just agoraphobic there as has no need to travel on them again....sorry for sounding cynical-had every pill n every tratment for sa -there is no cure-u gotta live with it and just alter ur life around the beast that is.....
unfortunatly i only saw the second episode where they went to tokyo, i kept saying they'll never do it, but was amazed that they did!! I found this website by looking for details about the programme.
It was uplifting for me to see these people with similar fears, it made me feel, not so alone..
i wish i had more courage, sooooo much:(
I'm the same as NancyDrew & also found this forum thanks to searching for info/ reviews of the programme so (for me) some good came of watching it...
:)
Nicola; i have just done 5 pages in word responding to some posts....should I post it here or is there a better way of doing it?
PaulS
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Nicola; i have just done 5 pages in word responding to some posts....should I post it here or is there a better way of doing it?
PaulS
<div align="right">Originally posted by PaulS - 22 December 2006 : 11:44:34</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Paul
Can you email it to Nic? If you can then I will get it on the site so that people can see it.
Regards
Alex
sent as requested
with seasons greetings to one and all
PaulS
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">sent as requested
with seasons greetings to one and all
PaulS
<div align="right">Originally posted by PaulS - 22 December 2006 : 14:01:04</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Same to you Paul!
I look forward to reading your replies, thank you!
Nel xxx
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
nomorepanic
22-12-06, 17:03
All
Here is Paul's reply in full........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear All,
As I avoid the paperwork on my desk today, I thought I might put down some thoughts from the programme. I am utterly and completely unable to deal with emails directly about this, which are as we speak filling up my inbox. Apologies, and thanks to No More Panic for allowing me to communicate in this way, which I feel is in any case fairer.
First let me say that this kind of programme does not show the reality. In fact, this was not a reality tv programme. There were no hidden cameras. To protect the participants, they and we were allowed to have as much off camera time as we needed, and we used this. Also, on the day of filming, it was agreed that the participants or therapists could tell the production team not to use something. This was to allow people to say what they needed to in treatment without fear of having to worry about what they were revealing. All three had things which they quite understandably did not want to share with the rest of the world. Our view was that they were very generously allowing the audience to see how things went in treatment, and they had to retain control of this, which they did.
In a show like this, there is no room for the science and even the majority of the therapy. As in last year’s house of obsessive compulsives, it at times looks like “a miracle happened”. One minute they are housebound, the next they are in Kingston upon Thames (yes, several of you got that right!!!). The reality is a great deal of hard work by my team and even more hard work on the part of the participants. Treatment went:
Assessment, detailed, long, and involved a risk assessment, part of which was the possibility of serious psychological harm to prospective participants if they went on the programme.
We also had a consent procedure approved by the Trust Caldecott Guardian, and the involvement of both Trust managers and our communications department.
Helping the participants understand their panic attacks; development of a “shared understanding” as the basis of the rationale for treatment.
Once understood, challenging the beliefs driving those panic attacks.
Doing “behavioural experiments” which help them discover the reality of those beliefs. (bear in mind that CBT is not about positive thinking or stopping negative thinking, it is about discovering “how the world really works”. This happened loads; one of the examples was Simon and I laughing ourselves silly as we lay on the ground and saw how people REALLY react when you appear strange (rather than the continual attempt not to appear strange).
Then……and only then……we take the process further by travelling with them to the house in K-u-T. More work is done on the way if possible, and we and the participants were constantly learning more that we could use in helping them overcome their anxiety.
The whole process then is consolidated in the house. Hours of calm talk, discussion, checking it out. Participants discovering more and more. Gradually, going out to do behavioural experiments. We are now up to many hours of treatment.
Next, several days in, we go out and about in Kingston, shops (e.g. Mothercare), bridges. Travelling on public transport. All carefully tailored to dealing with the beliefs driving the anxiety. Going up to town, into cafes, restaurants. Remember, we went to japan on Tuesday of the second week. The weekend before japan, all going home to consolidate AT HOME what they had learned so fare. Back to the house, discussions.
There was much, much more. Sessions were usually with two therapists. Sessions were audiotaped and participants asked to listen to them afterwards to consolidate what they have learned (something we always do in our clinic; if your therapist doesn’t, then ask them to….if they can’t, then take your own tape recorder to treatment sessions. How can anyone be expected to remember all that, especially when it is really upsetting stuff if therapy is b
Paul, Absolute appreciation for answering each post (as many as you could) individually.
I suppose Anxiety / Phobia is so very different for each individual person, their opinions on anything related to Anx / Phobia is going to be vastly different also.
It's a shame to read you are not making anymore 'House of...........' programmes in the future. I would have hoped that the lessons you have learned from this particular show would make your next one flawless.
Thanks again,
Kind Regards
Ross
___________________________________
Is There Really Gravity, Or Does Earth Just Suck?
Paul - [Wow!]
Thank you so much for that post!:)
I'm going to take the image of you and Simon on the pavement with me as a valuable lesson in what really happens - not what I think will happen. :D:D:D
Very best wishes to you.
Piglet :)
Yeah, piglet.
I think we ought to try the Paul/Simon position next time there is a NMP meet up. Or perhaps you could try it out locally with one of the smaller piglets?:D
Thanks Paul, especially your comment about me [^]
Ray
http://www.anxietyrelease.org.uk/
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
Huge thanks Paul for answering my questions - it is very much appreciated.
Huge thanks to NMP aswell, for the chance to ask our questions. The service you guys provide is second to none.
Nel xxx
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Yeah, piglet.
I think we ought to try the Paul/Simon position next time there is a NMP meet up. Or perhaps you could try it out locally with one of the smaller piglets?:D</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I will if you will!!! [:I]:D:D:D
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
Thanks Paul, especially your comment about me [^]
Ray </td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Piglet is so unbelievably jealous of the 'sensible' remark made about Ray from the emminent psychologist, that under the cover of darkness she will be back to swap the names around - sensible indeed, Paul have you not heard his story about .............!!!!!!!
Piglet :):):)
nomorepanic
22-12-06, 19:00
I have sent Paul a thank-you mail from us all for taking time-out to spend his time doing individual replies as well.
Cheers Paul.
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
nomorepanic
22-12-06, 19:20
I was googling info on this programme and found this other forum that I did know about anyway.
Simon from the programme has registered on there as a user called Descry so you may want to go and read what he has to say about the programme from his viewpoint.
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=258702
I would love for Simon to come here so will see if I can contact him about it.
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
Hi
Paul - thanks for responding to questions on this thread it has given me a greater insight into the making of the programme and the therapy used.
Nic - thanks for the link. I have had a look and found it very interesting, good to get an update on the participant's progress together with Simon's perspective on his experience.
This thread has stimulated good healthy discussion which I think everyone has benefited from.
Thanks everyone
chillx
bluebottle
22-12-06, 21:41
I've read Simon's post on the other forum and I agree 100% with his comment about after care/support. Once these 3 were taken under the wing of the Professor and his team surely he understood, that like it or not, he had a duty of care to them. Once the experiment was over the support should have kicked in and every resource made available to the 3. OK, that isn't how things work usually, but once they became the experiment, and I know they signed up on their own free will, then they became an exception to the norm.
I feel for Simon in particular from a personal point of view as I also lost my wife/home/job in a short space of time. I would really like to have the opportunity of communicating with him, and for him to know that he is a nice guy, and that he has a lot to offer.
Thanks Professor for the show, but it you do another please ensure the aftercare is there.
--
Blue -
"Your truth is better for you than someone else's. Just get to know what it is, so you can finally own it, and speak it."
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/innerchildhealing/
Under~The~Stars
22-12-06, 22:09
Hi I'm a new member, and just wanted to say that the programmes "House of Agoraphobics" was brilliant. It was really tough to watch as I could relate to all 3 of them and knew just how hard it was for them. I feel so sorry for Simon as I thought he did really well throughout the programmes and then went back to not being able to leave his house again. I think the key is support, which I lack unfortunately. Is there anyone else who feels they don't have enough support or that important people in their lives don't really understand how difficult these problems are?? Really glad that the problems were shown on TV.
yorkylover
22-12-06, 23:51
Hi,my partner watched the programme,and he has always supported me 100%,but has never fully understood the problem.Today he apologised to me for not understanding fully and how sometimes in the past he had got annoyed with me,he used to think I was making excuses when I was always ill.The programme has opened his eyes and he has learned alot from it.He even got upset watching it.
Thank you :)
Ellen XX
Paul, thank you so much for your feedback.
No, I am not Imelda Marcos! Being agoraphobic I don't have all that much use for hundreds of pairs of designer shoes, although I admit I do rather like them!!! [:I]
When I read your message to me, I shed a little tear (in a good way) because normally people don't appreciate the huge effort it takes for me to do 'normal' every day things. I can assure you that although I am not housebound, it is a HUGE effort for me to go out. I do not consider myself a 'success' because I still suffer from panic attacks and I still worry about what other people will think. I am not sure I will ever beat this thing, but I am learning to live with it. When I am an old lady I want to look back on my life and think 'oh, I remember the time I went to London and I had a panic attack on the London Eye, but wasn't it a great day out?' instead of 'I wish I'd left the house'. It is this thought that motivates me and gives me the strength to JUST DO IT ..... (that's most of the time - of course I do chicken out sometimes, and there are a few things I still avoid)! :D
HAPPY CHRISTMAS!
shoegal
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I've read Simon's post on the other forum and I agree 100% with his comment about after care/support. Once these 3 were taken under the wing of the Professor and his team surely he understood, that like it or not, he had a duty of care to them. Once the experiment was over the support should have kicked in and every resource made available to the 3. OK, that isn't how things work usually, but once they became the experiment, and I know they signed up on their own free will, then they became an exception to the norm.
I feel for Simon in particular from a personal point of view as I also lost my wife/home/job in a short space of time. I would really like to have the opportunity of communicating with him, and for him to know that he is a nice guy, and that he has a lot to offer.
Thanks Professor for the show, but it you do another please ensure the aftercare is there.
--
Blue -
"Your truth is better for you than someone else's. Just get to know what it is, so you can finally own it, and speak it."
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/innerchildhealing/
<div align="right">Originally posted by bluebottle - 22 December 2006 : 21:41:36</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
It sounds like the ball has been left in Simons court. He has said in his posts that he feels he has deeper rooted issues than agoraphobia, and he needs to address those before tackling the agoraphobia.
At the end of it all, it is probably best for people recovering that they don't rely on their therapist (or indeed anyone as a safety) - the aim is recovery, not finding ways to live with/adapt to it.
To be fair, the 3 on the programme received better one to one advice than most of us will. It's not everyone who would be willing to do that sort of thing for other people, I'm just glad that people like Paul are doing all they can to promote understanding and give some hope to people suffering.
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
Hi there all,
I have been invited on this forum by the lovely Prof and and a man named Tim... So in the style of Allo Allo... "It is I, Simon!" :)
Firstly I have read what you have all writen about on here and I want to thank you all for you kind words, it really does touch me that others are thinking of me in positive ways and giving their encouragement.
Secondly, rather than reapeating myself, I'm just going to copy and paste what I wrote on another forum, and if anyone has any specific questions I would be more than happy to answer them here.
I wasn't prepared for the amount of feedback I've had already and I have recieved quite a lot of emails... I want to answer them all but like the Prof, it's a bit overwhelming... but I'll try my best.
Anyhoo, here is what I wrote...
Feedback from the source...
[i]Hey there, I must admit, this has been interesting reading. :)
This is Simon, The fella that was in the program.
I wanted to set a few things straight for people so they can understand a few things...
I went into the program knowing full well what was on offer, it was set out from the start as an experiment to see if working in a group and using their techniques would work for us... sadly, it didn't work out as well as any of us would hope, but there are still differences.
The therapists and the prof were wonderful though, they weren't unfeeling they really did care about us and what we were doing. I have to also mention that the camera crew and other staff on the program were ace and understanding too.
We didn't know how intense it would be till we got there and to be honest, they had to fit 3 weeks worth of footage from 3 different people into 2 hours, there is SO much that is on the cutting room floor that was essential to our therapy and our ability to achieve what we did.
There are so many great things we did that weren't shown, like when we got on the train, it wasn't mentioned that we were taken to the middle of richmond park and stood on the hill looking out over everything... an absolute nightmare, but also a wonderful experience... to face your fear full on and see if what it screams at you will come true.
That was basically the whole premise of the therapy, can the conclusions you come to "I'm going to die" "I can't breathe" etc... come true if you fully go into your panic attack and face it and see.
And no... it didn't come true... I'm still alive and can still breathe!
The whole experience was an amazing one, and if anyone would ask me if I would do it again, I would jump at the chance... it showed me what I was capable of, and to be honest that should be the inspiration to anyone that watched it... what you are capable of if you really put your mind to it.
The trip to Japan was the icing on the cake, I had always wanted to go there, and to be given that oppotunity was beyond words...
I know that the end of the program seemed to be tainted with disappointment, but I wanted tell you why certain things happened from my perspective.
I went from intense therapy and support for 2-3 weeks to nothing... zip... zero... I had no support when i got back, apart from 1 meeting done at my place and 2 telephone conversations... that is where things went wrong in my eyes.
I think had a bit more thought gone into our situation about after care, things would be a LOT more different. I also feel that because the therapy was so intense, we didn't really have time to reflect and grow with what we learned.
So that, coupled with severe jet lag and exhaustion from two weeks of, lets face it, constant panic, and also a thing they didn't mention... we travelled back home from the house in surrey on own!!! led to an instant loss of confidence at the end and no help to get through it... then of course, the old habits kick in and things are back to the way they were before the program.
One thing I did realise though for me personally... I have a deeper problem than just the panic, its something that only time will heal and probably some psychotherapy! :)
But one thing I would
WELCOME!!!!
I just have to say what a total inspiration you are. I think you're amazing, from being practically housebound to going to freaking Tokyo! Getting to the town 3 minutes away is more than i can handle.
Just one question...
How are you doing in your recovery.....right now?
MERRY CHRISTMAS
Sarah x
Hi Simon,
Its great to see you here, and lovely that you have offered to answer questions etc.
I think after seeing you on 'The house of Agoraphobics' it has inspired a lot of people to try to face their fears even more now, me included. We all want to go and lay on the pavement in the middle of the street lol.
Sorry to hear you are virtually housebound again, I know how hard that is, last year I thought I had beat my anxiety and was doing all the everyday 'normal' things, but this year it was back to being a kind of prisoner again, but hey we did it once we can do it again:D
I will look forward to reading your posts.
Take care
Trac xx
'Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain'
Under~The~Stars
24-12-06, 12:02
Hey there everyone :D Just want to say a big HI to Simon :D I watched the house of agoraphobics and taped it (to look back on) ;) Simon, Archana and Su - all 3 of you are legends in my eyes! You all achieved something! Until now I felt so alone and like the only person who suffered from this type of problem - how wrong could I be! I hope everyone has a great christmas - I am really dreading it though :( Keep up the good work everyone and take care.
Louise xxx
Simon how lovely to see you here - welcome!! :D:D
As one of the ones who has now laid down on the pavement (see my thread) because of you, I feel I need to say how well I identified with you on the programme.
This site is all about giving encouragement to each other regardless of what stage we are at and it seems to me progress regularly involves a few steps forward and a couple back! :D:D:D
Thank you for filling in some of the gaps for us and when you are next in contact with the other two please pass our best wishes to them. We thought the three of you were brilliant!!
Piglet :)
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
How painful it was to watch an "expert" torturing those people
over 8+ days in the belief that facing your fears and having to
go through them is a quick, effective and groundbreaking way
of helping people deal with their challenges.
I would be ashamed to do what Paul S. does and call myself
an expert.
"Once understood, challenging the beliefs driving those panic
attacks."
As we know from Robert Cialdini's studies, consistency is an
important human trait. Challenging a person's beliefs will
usually make that person defend the belief even more strongly
and in particular dong it in the way that was done was a very
slow, painful and disrespectful way of doing it.
Changing beliefs can be much quicker, more comfortable and
more respectful than what was shown.
"CBT is not about positive thinking or stopping negative
thinking, it is about discovering "how the world really works"."
Nobody knows "how the world really works", I think he means
"how a person's world really works", which is a big diference.
What a shame this "expert" is not such the "expert" he is
claimed to be, and that his "groundbreaking" work isn't quite
even "groundscratching".
Understand me, I respect his position and motivation for
wanting to help and helping people with this terrible way of
living, I delpore his methods and behaviour.
His methods are neither groundbreaking nor pioneering.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">How painful it was to watch an "expert" torturing those people
over 8+ days in the belief that facing your fears and having to
go through them is a quick, effective and groundbreaking way
of helping people deal with their challenges.
I would be ashamed to do what Paul S. does and call myself
an expert.
"Once understood, challenging the beliefs driving those panic
attacks."
As we know from Robert Cialdini's studies, consistency is an
important human trait. Challenging a person's beliefs will
usually make that person defend the belief even more strongly
and in particular dong it in the way that was done was a very
slow, painful and disrespectful way of doing it.
Changing beliefs can be much quicker, more comfortable and
more respectful than what was shown.
"CBT is not about positive thinking or stopping negative
thinking, it is about discovering "how the world really works"."
Nobody knows "how the world really works", I think he means
"how a person's world really works", which is a big diference.
What a shame this "expert" is not such the "expert" he is
claimed to be, and that his "groundbreaking" work isn't quite
even "groundscratching".
Understand me, I respect his position and motivation for
wanting to help and helping people with this terrible way of
living, I delpore his methods and behaviour.
His methods are neither groundbreaking nor pioneering.
<div align="right">Originally posted by sgreen007 - 24 December 2006 : 12:41:00</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I completely disagree.
His methods (i.e. CBT) have been proven by MANY trials to be the most effective form of therapy for anxiety related disorders.
I speak from experience - I had hypnotherapy for some time and it made no difference to my agoraphobia, I had CBT and it did. Simple.
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">How painful it was to watch an "expert" torturing those people
over 8+ days in the belief that facing your fears and having to
go through them is a quick, effective and groundbreaking way
of helping people deal with their challenges.</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I don't think something that people went into voluntarily and could walk away from at any time called be called torture.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I would be ashamed to do what Paul S. does and call myself
an expert.</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
That is actually a very harsh thing to day seeing as he did help the people on the programme.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Changing beliefs can be much quicker, more comfortable and
more respectful than what was shown.</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Facing your fears cannot be done easily and comfortably, if they could we wouldn't fear doing it then, and we wouldn't suffer.
I don't think its very fair to slate someone who is doing his best to try to help people with this terrible illness. What works for some doesn't work for others and vice versa.
Lots of people have tried CBT, NLP etc and it didn't work, just the same as lots of people have tried exposure therapy and it didn't work.
Try not to be so harsh next time huh.
Take care
Trac xx
'Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain'
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">WELCOME!!!!
I just have to say what a total inspiration you are. I think you're amazing, from being practically housebound to going to freaking Tokyo! Getting to the town 3 minutes away is more than i can handle.
Just one question...
How are you doing in your recovery.....right now?
MERRY CHRISTMAS
Sarah x
<div align="right">Originally posted by sarahc - 24 December 2006 : 08:39:12</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Hi Sarah and thanks,
Right now, I'm virtually housebound again, mainly due to not having any motivation to do anything at the mo!
I know the Prof will poke me for that! "getting better should be motivation" I can hear him say, but It's depression that's set in that is basically making it hard for me right now.
But to be honest, everyones love and understanding and words have really touched me and make me want to throw the shackles off and really head straight into challenging myself again... its very inspiring from my end to see the response.
Of course, I'm having to wait for the red tape of the various government agencies that are in control of money and help, to really get up and challenge myself with the right support again.
Luckily I'm still in contact with the Prof by phone, and he has been a great inspiration too.
Si. X
P.S. Tokyo if freakin GREAT! I recommend everyone to go there at least once in their life! :D
------------------------------------------------------
"It is your mind that creates this world" The Buddha
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Simon how lovely to see you here - welcome!! :D:D
As one of the ones who has now laid down on the pavement (see my thread) because of you, I feel I need to say how well I identified with you on the programme.
This site is all about giving encouragement to each other regardless of what stage we are at and it seems to me progress regularly involves a few steps forward and a couple back! :D:D:D
Thank you for filling in some of the gaps for us and when you are next in contact with the other two please pass our best wishes to them. We thought the three of you were brilliant!!
Piglet :)
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
<div align="right">Originally posted by Piglet - 24 December 2006 : 12:08:57</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Hi Piglet, and thanks.
I'll tell Su about the forum here and see if she has time to reply as well... I think Archie is a bit to busy to reply to be honest what with baby and all, but I'll try to find out for you. :)
Happy to fill in more gaps! (Damn innuendos!!) hehehe
And I want to see more people lying down on the pavement in future!!! [:P] hehehe
Si. X
------------------------------------------------------
"It is your mind that creates this world" The Buddha
"I don't think something that people went into voluntarily and could walk away from at any time called be called torture."
Okay, perhaps torture was quite the correct word, but the idea that you have to go through the fear and the
panic to remove it from your life is an unnecessary and outdated approach.
"That is actually a very harsh thing to day seeing as he did help the people on the programme."
Just pointing you back to me original post:
"Understand me, I respect his position and motivation for
wanting to help and helping people with this terrible way of
living, I deplore his methods and behaviour."
I am not slating him, I am questioning his methods and behaviours. His behaviours are not his identity.
I was saying that I would be ashamed to call myself an expert if I was doing what he was doing.
"Facing your fears cannot be done easily and comfortably, if they could we wouldn't fear doing it then, and we wouldn't suffer."
I agree, "Facing your fears" cannot be done easily and comfortably. This programme pressuposes that
facing your fears is the wasy to overcome.
I am saying that one does not have to face their fears to overcome them and that changing a persons beliefs
is can be easier, more comfortable and more respectful than challenging beliefs.
I don not believe that I am being harsh, I beleive that I am providing a balance to the forum.
Treating people the way these three have been treated is harsh. In my book.
I am sure that Pual S. is comfortable with his-self and his method.
nomorepanic
24-12-06, 14:26
Hi Simon
Just wanted to welcome you aboard and lovely to see you here. I assume you got my message from Briary on the other forum?
Thanks for signing up and I am sure you can be of some help to us and hopefully vice versa.
Happy Christmas :)
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">How painful it was to watch an "expert" torturing those people
over 8+ days in the belief that facing your fears and having to
go through them is a quick, effective and groundbreaking way
of helping people deal with their challenges.
I would be ashamed to do what Paul S. does and call myself
an expert.
"Once understood, challenging the beliefs driving those panic
attacks."
As we know from Robert Cialdini's studies, consistency is an
important human trait. Challenging a person's beliefs will
usually make that person defend the belief even more strongly
and in particular dong it in the way that was done was a very
slow, painful and disrespectful way of doing it.
Changing beliefs can be much quicker, more comfortable and
more respectful than what was shown.
"CBT is not about positive thinking or stopping negative
thinking, it is about discovering "how the world really works"."
Nobody knows "how the world really works", I think he means
"how a person's world really works", which is a big diference.
What a shame this "expert" is not such the "expert" he is
claimed to be, and that his "groundbreaking" work isn't quite
even "groundscratching".
Understand me, I respect his position and motivation for
wanting to help and helping people with this terrible way of
living, I delpore his methods and behaviour.
His methods are neither groundbreaking nor pioneering.
<div align="right">Originally posted by sgreen007 - 24 December 2006 : 12:41:00</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Hi there Steve, (I am right with the name there yeah?)
This is Simon that was in the program here.
I don't know if you read my first post here (Page 8 I believe), I describe fully that I volunteered and I knew what the whole thing was about... We KNEW it was an experiment to see if getting us all together with intense therapy over that short period would work for us, and what insights it would give to the therapists...
I know it wasn't fully sucessful, but to be honest, not only us, but the therapists gained much valuable information into what works, and what doesn't for us and for them as professionals. For that alone, it is "groundbreaking and poineering"
I personally believe the methods they taught us work extremely well... I think that the situation could have been planned a bit better of course and a bit more emphasis on our home enviroment wouldn't have gone amiss, and maybe a bit more time to really take what we learnt in... but all in all it was very well done in my honest opinion. (And also remember... it was a tv show too, and what you saw was 1 1/2 hours of tv footage chosen from 3 weeks worth of therapy and integration into enviroments... a lot of ground work was done during that time)
I must note that we wouldn't be where we are here today without people experimenting and taking "risks" in order to find out what works and what doesn't, and I think that is very narrow minded and in fact quite childish of you to start to accuse the professor of being a so called "expert" (Sarcasm noted in your text there)
He has many many years of experience in this field of psychology and has helped a LOT people in his line of work and I get a feeling your respect is slightly tainted there somehow, and I'm also getting the impression you're almost goading for a adversarial conversation.
Now I'm all for alternative views on things, and I am well versed in the many different forms of therapy and help that is out there (mental, spiritual and physical)... I have tried a fair few too... I completely respect the methods you have chosen to taken on as your own for helping others and in no way do I have any animosity towards yourself or your views, as everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
But also bear in m
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">"I don't think something that people went into voluntarily and could walk away from at any time called be called torture."
Okay, perhaps torture was quite the correct word, but the idea that you have to go through the fear and the
panic to remove it from your life is an unnecessary and outdated approach.
"That is actually a very harsh thing to day seeing as he did help the people on the programme."
Just pointing you back to me original post:
"Understand me, I respect his position and motivation for
wanting to help and helping people with this terrible way of
living, I deplore his methods and behaviour."
I am not slating him, I am questioning his methods and behaviours. His behaviours are not his identity.
I was saying that I would be ashamed to call myself an expert if I was doing what he was doing.
"Facing your fears cannot be done easily and comfortably, if they could we wouldn't fear doing it then, and we wouldn't suffer."
I agree, "Facing your fears" cannot be done easily and comfortably. This programme pressuposes that
facing your fears is the wasy to overcome.
I am saying that one does not have to face their fears to overcome them and that changing a persons beliefs
is can be easier, more comfortable and more respectful than challenging beliefs.
I don not believe that I am being harsh, I beleive that I am providing a balance to the forum.
Treating people the way these three have been treated is harsh. In my book.
I am sure that Pual S. is comfortable with his-self and his method.
<div align="right">Originally posted by sgreen007 - 24 December 2006 : 13:48:53</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
You aren't providing a balance at all, you are rubbishing a method that has helped many people (in your first post here that is exactly what you did, rubbish it). Sufferers come here to speak to people who understand, that is the main reason most of us are members. I think it is damaging to be quite frank, to come onto a forum of sufferers and rubbish a form of treatment which has given many people their lives back. As a sufferer, having read your comments as opposed to the Professors, he clearly has a far better understanding than you do.
We don't do that here, i.e. we don't rubbish methods which people have found to be helpful. Yes we all have opinions on things, I think hynotherapy is a very costly waste of time personally, however I am not going to tear into you for thinking differently - if people get any benefit from it then good. The most important thing in my view is respect, respecting what people find helps them - as I said, it is nothing more than damaging to rubbish a proven and very promising lifeline.
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
sophieunderscore
24-12-06, 14:55
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">As we know from Robert Cialdini's studies, consistency is an
important human trait. Challenging a person's beliefs will
usually make that person defend the belief even more strongly</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
From what I understand Cialdini's research is based on work in sales and marketing - not something easily related to mental difficulties which we're talking about here. Correct me if I'm wrong?
"From what I understand Cialdini's research is based on work in sales and marketing - not something easily related to mental difficulties which we're talking about here. Correct me if I'm wrong?"
Some of Cialdini's research on consistency is based upon sales and marketing, the more interesting part is the research on prisoners of the chinese indoctrination in Korea, and some of the cults that predict the end of the world.
We're talking about challenging beliefs that drive anxiety and phobias.
In Cialdini's research on consistency, he found that when a cult leader forecasts the end of the world, after the time has come and gone, cult members typically believe even more strongly in the cult than before.
Their belief was challenged and rather than changed, it was reinforced.
Also, why can I not disagree with a person's methods.
I have seen my daughter's mother go through hours of torture, pain and floods of tears in therapy, hashing over her sh*t childhood under the misguided belief that going through the pain over and over again is THE ONLY, or MOST EFFECTIVE way to treat something like this.
It is cruel and unnecesary.
I have met many people who practice varying methods of treatment.
They tend to have a habit of saying their approach is best and rubbishing other methods!
Where does that leave us...
Ray
http://www.anxietyrelease.org.uk/
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I have met many people who practice varying methods of treatment.
They tend to have a habit of saying their approach is best and rubbishing other methods!
Where does that leave us...
Ray
http://www.anxietyrelease.org.uk/
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
<div align="right">Originally posted by clickaway - 24 December 2006 : 15:42:33</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Well Ray, as many mental health professionals have found, it leaves people being treated with a method which is unvalidated instead of seeking out governed, tried, tested and proven techniques (such as CBT).
I think Steve (or Dave - as his hotmail addy is) is confusing CBT with standard psychiatry or counselling, CBT doesn't look at peoples pasts or attempt to find reasons for the learned behaviour - it only attempts to challenge and overcome the behaviour itself.
Wikipedia have quite an extensive article on NLP for anyone who wants to read up on it.
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
nomorepanic
24-12-06, 16:06
I have had both the traditional counselling (where they do try and blame everything on your childhood) and then more recently very specific CBT for my driving issues.
I preferred the CBT as it gave me much more focus and was the "here and now" and not interested in what sort of childhood I had.
Steve - How is your wife/partner/ex now? What helped her ?
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">We don't do that here, i.e. we don't rubbish methods which people have found to be helpful. Yes we all have opinions on things, I think hynotherapy is a very costly waste of time personally, however I am not going to tear into you for thinking differently - if people get any benefit from it then good. The most important thing in my view is respect, respecting what people find helps them - as I said, it is nothing more than damaging to rubbish a proven and very promising lifeline.
___________________________________________
<div align="right">Originally posted by Nel - 24 December 2006 : 14:36:07</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Spot on Nel!!
Piglet xx
Hi Si
Just wanted to welcome you to the forum.
I watched the programme and wanted to say how brave you all were.
I have struggled on and off with anxiety panics for nearly 20 years. I can do a lot of things with people i trust but not a lot on my own.
Can i ask did the prof give you any techniques for trying to do things alone like when you had to travel home on your own. Did you just have to sit the panic/anxiety out or did you use any other techniques.
From the programme i understood that you had to stop looking for escapes or doing safety things as they reinforce the prob.
At the moment i find it hard moving out of my safe zones.
My trouble is im scared to try i case i panic. but i dont no i will cos i darent try - hope this makes sense.
If i can help in anyway please do not hesitate to get in touch.
anyway glad you joined us take care and Merry Christmas.
Bobsy x;)
Simon, on a lighter note , do you have any pets ?
I have a 11 month old border terrier, and she has helped me get out of the house,walking her down the street makes me feel safe....
just holding onto her lead, she drags me down the street and jumps up to people to say hello, best thing ive ever done :D
take care
mirryx
Mirry that's exactly what Fee says about her dog 'Jet'.
Piglet xx
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Simon, on a lighter note , do you have any pets ?
I have a 11 month old border terrier, and she has helped me get out of the house,walking her down the street makes me feel safe....
just holding onto her lead, she drags me down the street and jumps up to people to say hello, best thing ive ever done :D
take care
mirryx
<div align="right">Originally posted by mirry - 24 December 2006 : 18:48:11</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I totally agree Mirry. Dogs are brilliant, I've got 2 and I love taking them a walk!
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
Hi
I am a strong beliver that for those of us with dogs they often have an untapped potential to help us . over the past 2 years i have trained my dog to do several things that help me when i am out , it has not been a cure , i still suffer from a block when it comes to leaving the house but i have been out and suffered much less anxiety whilst out than i did previously and nothing bad has happened when we have been out together so that aspect of my fear has been much reduced, if anyone is interested in exploring the possibilities further email me natalyachacon@hotmail.com and i will be happy to explain how my dog helps me and see if we can work out things that will help you too.
bb natty
Hi,
I agree. My dog is my best friend and he motivates me to go out when I really don't want to. I just have to look at those gorgeous big brown eyes and I know he relies on me to take him out..... so I take him for a nice long walk, and it's worth it just to see how happy it makes him, even if I do panic! :D
you can see my puppy here......
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o237/mirry_photos/DSCF0921.jpg
shes grown a little since this photo was taken , but you can see how easy it is to fall in love :)
mirryx
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">you can see my puppy here......
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o237/mirry_photos/DSCF0921.jpg
shes grown a little since this photo was taken , but you can see how easy it is to fall in love :)
mirryx
<div align="right">Originally posted by mirry - 25 December 2006 : 13:29:07</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
SO cute!!!! [8)]
These are my two:
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/Holly1974/DSCF0431.jpg?t=1167140411
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/Holly1974/DSCF0650.jpg?t=1167140447
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
ahhhhhh , they are lovely :D
and so loyal dont you think ?
Today we took lilly to the shore, there are lots of bushes for the kids to hide, so lilly plays hide and seek .lol.
When lilly was poorly last month with an infection in her nose, I had to get her a emergancy appointment at the vets "whilst my husband was at work"[:I]
so I walked her all the way there. She helps me soooo much and just feeding her and bathing her takes my mind off my anxiety,
my cbt therapist told me there has been research done that proves dogs help people with anxiety. I wonder why this is ?
Could I be feeling safer with a dog ? after all I imagine an attacker would think twice if he sees a dog with you ?
mirryx
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">ahhhhhh , they are lovely :D
and so loyal dont you think ?
Today we took lilly to the shore, there are lots of bushes for the kids to hide, so lilly plays hide and seek .lol.
When lilly was poorly last month with an infection in her nose, I had to get her a emergancy appointment at the vets "whilst my husband was at work"[:I]
so I walked her all the way there. She helps me soooo much and just feeding her and bathing her takes my mind off my anxiety,
my cbt therapist told me there has been research done that proves dogs help people with anxiety. I wonder why this is ?
Could I be feeling safer with a dog ? after all I imagine an attacker would think twice if he sees a dog with you ?
mirryx
<div align="right">Originally posted by mirry - 26 December 2006 : 17:01:23</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Could be that.
I think it's loyalty and devotion. 'Eulogy to a dog' is a very famous American courtroom transcript, it sums it up I think:
'The one absolute, unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world-the one that never deserts him, the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous is his dog....He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer, he will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounter with the roughness of the world...When all other friends desert, he remains'.
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
Nel, your dogs are gorgeous!!!
shoegal xxx
your dogs are lovely mirry and nell thanks for putting up pics.
I think there are lots of reasons why dogs can help us with anxiety, your right about people feeling safer , i think also having a dog with you makes people look at the dog not you , so if you dont like being looked at , that helps too, it also is an ice breaker that leads to conversations , i get horribly nervous talking to people but talking about my dog always seems easier and then there is the simple thing that our dogs love us and are non judgemental, if we act a little strange our dogs dont care , if we stop to sit in the street we can stroke the dog and we dont look so odd plus having the dog means we can legitamately take a walk and go nowhere in particular , were just out walking the dog , it gives us a purpose.
bb natty
Aw thank you SG!
Did anyone watch After Thomas? It was brilliant, the wee boys dog helped him deal with autism.
___________________________________________
"At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky..."
nomorepanic
27-12-06, 13:45
Simon
I was just wondering if you have thought about having some more CBT now that the filming has ended or are you already waiting for it?
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
ARGH!! I missed it and wanted to watch that. I suppose its all finished now?
broadband.cyphus.com, switchboard.cyphus.com
There are many ways to stay in touch.
Keep focused, keep positive. Emma x
Sonusthree
28-12-06, 02:19
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">ARGH!! I missed it and wanted to watch that. I suppose its all finished now?....
<div align="right">Originally posted by EmmaJane </div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I'm sure that many of us (including me) have taped it. I would be more than happy to make you a copy if needed.
I don't want to restate what has already been said but I found it to be an emotional rollercoaster and very inspirational.
Definitely a cathartic experience for me.
Most importantly I would like to say a massive thank you to Simon for posting here. Seriously, Cheers!
As a man of similar age I immediately identified with your situation and I felt that the programme was excellent but WAY too condensed. More, more, Channel Four.......
"I have learned from my mistakes—and I’m sure I could repeat them exactly.”
5.10 in the morning cant sleep, just sat and read through all 11 pages word for word...
Firstly Prof Paul not offended at-all by your comments back to me :-)
Secondly Simon nice to see you here ;> and giving your opinion re the house of agar on the forum!Interesting reading!
SGreen:"CBT is not about positive thinking or stopping negative
thinking, it is about discovering "how the world really works"."
Do you know what CBT is at-all?? A few other comments you made be to much to re post, have you got any idea what Agoraphobia/panic disorder is? What is your day job?? Interesting to know!
A few posts/comments i was intruged by that lead me to posting was one re childhood!
Ive never posted much on this forum re my experiences of why i have agorpahobia/anxiety/panic disorder & PTSD. I had post-natal depression 12 yrs ago which lead to agoraphobia, panic attacks, followed by flash backs of abuse, i was seen by the mental health team dismissed after a few months, 10 yrs later things got much worse to point of suicidal thoughts! Over the last two yrs i have had a great psychologist & Dr who have helped me bring it all out, it is difficult, you hit rock bottom, low self esteem, i didnt love or like myself for a long time, so childhood abuse can and does reflect on a person later on in life, you still feel the power of the abusers,manipulating and bullying bahouir you had been inflicted upon as a child! The last 12 yrs hasnt just robbed me of my life but has also robbed my children, i cant do things other mothers do and that is hard (which some will relate to here) I didnt have parents so being a mother i was going to be the best, i torture myself that feel i have let my children down. Point im making is if i had a physical illness id have to deal with it and thier may be a cure but having the mental illness i feel betrayed it was given to me re my childhood experiences!And will i ever be cured? Why should i suffer and not the person/persons/abusers who caused this? I have to face it all over as court case starts again 8th January! I often think in my head im not going to let this ruin my life but it does and counselling does help you open up you do re live a lot of the experiences but keeping it inside does more harm!
I am at present taking Cipramil for my anxiety and Diazepam if i need to go out the Cipramil is helping wont cure but takes edge of, comment also made the cures in yourself, well i wish i could find it :-) Anxiety or panic just doesnt go i have worked on it now for 2 yrs with a good psychologist and i suppose i expected a magic wand, once i got in their opened that closet got it all out i would be fine/cured, i know one day their will be closure in all of this but will it be a cure?
If their is ever another show i hope it shows it over a longer time rather than just the 2 hours, can see the real insight then of how a person does cope day to day with the illness!When i had my first panic attack and went to the Dr i remember being told to go home and hoover,never to this day understood what he really meant by that, id love to ask, maybe one day!Well if hoovering was a cure my carpets would be well worn by now! I have tried hard over the last few months in trying to go out and do as my Psychologist and Dr tell me to do, but hey rome wasnt built in a day was it huh, it is facing your fear, panic is fear of fear
Sorry to have babbled on just off-loading.. felt a bit low tonight.
Take care all and if im not back before NEXT YR Have a HAPPY NEW YR and i hope next yr will be better for us all <HUGS>
Luvvas Caroline x
((((Caroline))))
Piglet :)
Hi Caroline, thoughts and best wishes to you at this time.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">SGreen:"CBT is not about positive thinking or stopping negative thinking, it is about discovering "how the world really works"."</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
That was another person's line, not mine. I did reply to that though, saying that nobody knows how the world really works but they can learn how their own reality works for them, to a certain extent.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Do you know what CBT is at-all?? A few other comments you made be to much to re post, have you got any idea what Agoraphobia/panic disorder is? What is your day job?? Interesting to know!</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I do know what CBT is. My brother has experienced some and we have all been doing it since before it was invented, or should I say realised/noticed and labeled.
I know exactly what agoraphobia/panic disorder is. My daughter's mother suffers from it and by conditioning and learnt behaviour my daughter does a little sometimes aswell.
My day job?
I am a counsellor, NLP Practitioner, Hypnotherapist, EFT Practitioner, Core Transformation Practitioner and I am a Reiki Practitioner.
Hello, just decided to join here after feeling inspired by watching the house of agoraphobics. In truth I was a bit nervous about the show before it aired as I just didn't know how I'd feel watching other agoraphobics , like myself. Fortunately I found it very therapeutic & it brought me a lot of acceptance for where I am right now. In fact, I felt incredibly proud of Archana, Su & Simon & I was with them all the way. I couldn't believe it when I saw Simon's situation, living with his parents & having success abroad & then returning to his parents house again. This is exactly my own situation & as I don't know of any other agoraphobics it was a relief to see that there are others exactly like myself. The world of an agoraphobic can grow small & although you know there are others "out there", it's quite a different thing to see them on the screen.
Anyway ,overall I found it a very worthwhile program. I would love to have seen more & got a better idea of how much therapy was needed before they all went out on the experiments. I'm not sure how non agoraphobics would have viewed it , that would be interesting to know. I'd also love them to do a follow up in the future ,to see how all three are doing & show ways of helping with any further difficulties they've had to face.
:) xxx
Many thanks for the comments and feedback. However, I will post to this strand from time to time as an easier alternative. So here goes.
Rossinbristol: In a way, the feedback from these two (ocd and ag) are that that particular job is done as well as it might be. What I would really like to do next if a media company wants it is to do something to make the science behind it all clearer, and to illustrate the bits that did not come over so well in these programmes (the cognitive preparation, helping people to begin to see things in a different way). That would be both harder work and less likely to attract the large audience commercial broadcasters crave, so it may well not happen. We’ll see.
Nel: I’d like to add my appreciation to nmp not least for the opportunity to clarify some of the issues as has happened on this bulletin board.
Bluebottle: thanks for the comments. Probably worth mentioning that when people come to our clinic under the NHS, it is for a limited period; the idea is that local services are asked to take over care once specialist treatment has been undergone. We are a very small service, and for some problems our catchment area is the whole of the UK, so we cannot offer longer term treatment to anyone without denying someone else treatment which they also need. Its not satisfactory, I know. Some health districts allow a maximum of six hours psychological treatment in total. The resources are limited; we and people on this board are campaigning to make evidence based treatments more accessible in the best possible form, and that’s what we should all continue to do.
Ellen; another post which makes it worthwhile! A key aim for us was to increase understanding for people who don’t have the problem.
Shoegal: Hmm, not sure about the Marcos bit, still suspicious. Being a success: this is all like the issue of being brave, or coping. Being brave is not being fearless, it is about doing what you have to do despite the fear. By the same token, coping is not about feeling calm all the time. I went to the shops at lunchtime today, felt fine…..but you wouldn’t say “you coped well” UNLESS there was something to cope with. A remember saying to a friend of mine who was looking gray and strained “Not coping Dennis?”; he replied “no, I’m coping, I’m just not enjoying it”
Nel: thanks. Simon and I are still “In touch”. Can’t really comment in detail on Simon; in any case, he’s made things clear himself
Descry: thanks simon, you said it better than I could.
SGreen007: Wow. Actually, I don’t call myself an expert. Some people on this board will have heard me talk (as I regularly do) at anxiety conferences organised by no panic, NPS, OCDUk and so on, and I usually express my (true) feelings that on those occasions I am speaking to the real experts, that is, the people who experience problems such as anxiety and their carers. I am certainly not ashamed of what I do. In terms of what was shown, I suggest you have a look at what I wrote above about what was done vs what was shown.
You are completely correct in what I meant about “how the world really works”; that was why it was in inverted commas.
Nel: thanks for that. We all (people suffering from anxiety and people trying to help) have to decide how to choose what approach to take. An important part of this is considering the evidence (which is what things like NICE guidelines and NoMorePanic websites, to name but two examples) are for. I personally advocate the use of a range of evidence, and the notion of “evidence based patient choice”, which is about helping people to find out as much as possible and make their judgements about how they might seek/get help based on the limited information we have. Again, its about “finding out how the world really works”, and again its for yourself. If a pattern of tapping or aromatherapy with lavender help you, that’s fantastic. The research indicates what is most likely to help the majority if done in a particular way, but nothing works all the time for everyone. More information is what we all need,
Lovely to hear from you Paul and a Happy New Year to you :D
I lay down on the pavement today! Progress report! (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15913)
Doubt you will get time to read this but I wanted you to know I had my own laying on the pavement experience - I blame you and Simon entirely :D:D:D:D
Piglet :)
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Paddington
09-01-07, 23:55
I want to say hello to Simon.I identifiied with you the most on the programme and understand FULLY the lack of motivation keeping one in the house, coupled with depression.I will take my daughter to work in the car,but wont take MYSELF any where!At one point iwould not do anything so [due to this site]i at least do something!I also identified with piglet,in fact when i read the part about ,being more able tobe somewhere where you wont know anyone ,so made me jump with recognition,i wanted to phone her,but i cant as we dont know each other!!ha ha ha!![must read your thread soon piglet re, the lying on the pavement!!??]....on a sour note,iwas shocked and hurt by a comment to me from my brother,who watched this programme...'did you see the house of agoraphobics last night M.?Wow ,makes you realise you are not that bad doesnt it?they couldn'tgo out on their own or anything!'....i looked at himand said..lastme i walked to my local shop alone was 8 years ago!..i do not go on buses,or trains..so how much easier is my life exactly??'...he just looked at the floor!Made me sad that has.We all do somuch to cover up our condition ,so i guess it should come as know suprise to get that type of comment,and he was not meaning to be unkind,maybe more honesty is needed??!!Any way ,welcome simon,i am thrilled to hear your story and to see how you are now.You are in my thoughts and i so hope that you do take that leapof faith and get well,youdeserve it as do we all on here.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
we are all in the same boat and can guide each other ashore
Paddington hun you are very welcome to talk to me on msn anytime or even in the chatroom just let me know:D
Paul a warm thank you - I have questions, so I very much look forward to your live chat session in the chatroom very soon :)
Please see the thread Nic has done on this if you want to know how to ask Paul a question on the night!!
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Piglet, Thankyou for the Hug ;>
Dont know what to sya or how to say what im going to say here but, Urghhhhhhhh <kicks myself first>
CarolineP: thanks for sharing this. It goes to show (if anyone needed reminding) that anxiety is something a person suffers, not a thing in itself. What came over a bit in the programme (but not as much as it might) is that, for some people, the vulnerability to anxiety is related to traumas of one kind or another. Some people need to deal with these as well, others don’t or don’t have any other problems. I’d estimate that 60% of people suffering from severe and persistent anxiety problems are helped sufficiently by a focussed approach on the anxiety itself, with the others needing rather more, sometimes much more.
Prof Paul, read over & over this and i still find it hard to accept that thier is ever a cure for GAD/Panic disorder, they say the cure is within yourself, having a panic attack you talk yourself into so you can turn that round and talk yourself out of it, sounds easy but when your having one at the time all that goes out of mind and the panic gets worse, it is hard to control it, had friends saying with the anxiety symptoms they feel like their dying and that is truly what it is like.. I wish thier had been more re the programme even over a few weeks not a few hours ive suffered panic attacks for 12 yrs leading to agoraphobia and i just couldnt have got on that plane so how did they manage to get on that plane? Youd have had to have knocked me out without a doubt i cant even get on a bus. I just wish their was a cure why does an illness like this have such an impact on a persons life, make a person feel so bad it causes so many phobias, mental & physical problems.
Caroline.
nomorepanic
10-01-07, 22:25
Caroline
I am cured of panic attacks and I suffered for about 10 years. It wasn't easy but can be done.
So is Meg who comes on here and there are all these as well...
Is Recovery possible
100% recovered?? (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3368)
total cure? (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3832)
home truths (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2398)
why me. this ruins my life. (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4957)
How do you know when you're cured? (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5673)
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
Paddington
12-01-07, 10:06
Caroline ,i do understand where you are coming from.I thought the same NO WAY IN THE WORLD COULD I GET ON A PLANE!Like you i cant do public transport.I talked to the people doing this programme when they wanted folk to go on it and i told them then,i cant get to london,i HAVE AGORAPHOBIA!!!...There was so much going on behind the scenes to get those folk doing things and sadley it wasnt shown .i agree a series over a few weeks would have been wonderful!BUT hun,you can and will get better,when i joined here i was at my lowest ebb,housebound and depressed.NOW..I GO TO CONCERTS AND MARKETS!!Talking on here did that for me,we all have our own journey with this damn illness,but we all have the same symptoms.We can help each others recovery,i am sure of it!PM me any time tyou fancy to natter!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
we are all in the same boat and can guide each other ashore
Thankyou Nicola ;> Does give hope x
Paddington,
Thankyou to, words of support and encouragement helps a little, having a rough ride lately but i know its a set back and I/we can move forward again...
Thanks again Take care
Luvvas Caroline.x.
Caroline - I don't thinks it's really about distance, but more to do with a safe place.
I don't think many of us could just jet off to Tokyo, but when you look at this particular situation, its rather different. They had a team of people to support them on this 'adventure'. These were professionals who were known to help people get better. Remember, the tallest order may have been leaving their neighbourhood to come to London for the programme.
Incidentally, there are a a number of agoraphobics on here that were prisoners of their own home. Although not cured, they are making good progress.
Also remember once people are 'cured', they seldom come back and tell us. We mostly hear from those still struggling.
Ray
http://www.anxietyrelease.org.uk/
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
Ray
Re distance - Safe place, home for me is safe - security
Being a prisoner well know well of that had agoraphobia for 12 yrs!
And as for the programme, i think i`ll close on it all have own self opinion.
And therapy been in therapy for 2 years now with a good (very good) Psychologist and alot of help from Dr, on medication now and i would say without the medication i more than likely wouldnt be where i am now but also point that some ppls agoraphobia is owrse than others so do need more intense therapy and guidance to be reassured that all the negative,phobias etc brought on with the illness wont harm or kill you but when your having a panic attack that all goes and its a set back so your back to square one, each hurdle you take is an achievement you can get over 8 hurdles and then wham your back down to 4 then 2 so on..
Anxiety as i would explain it...
If thier is two barrels and one is half full and it rains it fills a little...
The other barrel is full and if it rains then it over flows...
PPl who dont suffer or have little anxiety in thier lifes their levels rise but not like someone who already has anxiety disorder their levels are high so ie easier for panic to trigger.. I know the all about chemicals, seretonin, adrenaline so on and i know in myself that it cant harm or kill me, but panic is the fear of fear! We can help ourselfs its only our self that can really do it, its abig step to take and its a big world out thier, what is thier really to be frightened of? Nothing!! The illness in itself can be controlled, but id rather a cure.
Well opened me gasket again ;>
Take care
Caroline.x.
honeybee3939
17-01-07, 09:36
Hi
I never really got chance to reply to this post as my internet was down. I have had Agorophobia over the last 11 years, but have made lots of great achievements since then, Im not fully recovered but i feel as if im getting there and trying to think positve about my future.
I watched the Tv show "House of Agorophobics" and i tried to picture myself in thier shoes, i think they all did so well.
I was just wondering if there was anyone else that thought like me. We all talk about "safe places"but i have "safe people" too, I have therapy twice a week, i had discussed with my therapist how i can go in shops with her and go on a bus etc and not panic, but if i do it with my family or friends the panic shows its ugly head. Its as if now i am classing the therapist as a "safe person" whom i am safe with.
I would be interested to know if any of the people taking part in the programme felt like i would have"safer" because paul and other therapists where there, which certainly would have made me feel better.
This week im doing therapy, where my keyworker stays outside the shop while i go in on my own. that way hopefully i will get used to not having "my safe" person with me.
I hope that all made sence !
Love
Andrea
xxxx
"If you have a worry turn it into a problem, you cant solve worrys but you can solve problems"
Andy,
That all makes perfect sense to me hun.
I most certainly have safe people too and so apart from trying to extend my safe places (or ideally not do the whole safe places at all) I want to extend my safe people too (or again ideally not do this either).
I think the most important lesson I want to learn is that I am my most safe person and so can take myself wherever I wish to go!! :D:D:D:D I am already learning to be my own best friend and I'm only unkind to myself now and again (for which I send myself to my room - without pringles[:I]:D. More often than not though I give myself a mental hug or even a physical one and tell myself we're doing fine)!!
Ideally I guess we are all working to try and drop our avoidance behaviours, as unfortunately they are only reinforcing the idea that anxiety and panic are something to be feared and avoided at all costs.
I think how I want to treat anxiety and how I want to treat panic are to be different from now on. Panic I want to treat by working to lose the fear of being frightened by exposure techniques. Whereas anxiety is a different issue with me, I already have altered some things over the years, like not getting involved with things that don't really concern me and trying to stay calm when there are 'high' feelings around me. I think that may be called 'growing up' lol!!
Also with anxiety because that has a tendency to make me feel rough physically on a more day to day basis, I make sure I do things that I enjoy and that are helpful - this can be anything from yoga to jumping on my trampette to listening to relaxation cd's or reading affirmation cards.
I don't do pressure well these days at all but as a certain amount is unavoidable I try to work out ways that these can be minimized and ask for a bit of help if poss.
This all sounds very good in theory of course but being human I often resort to the avoidence route - like I say it is a 'work in progress'!! :D
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
honeybee3939
17-01-07, 13:02
Piglet
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I think the most important lesson I want to learn is that I am my most safe person and so can take myself wherever I wish to go!!</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
You hit the nail right on the head there, thats the most important thing we have to learn, if we feel safe within ourselves, that would be the easiest way to overcome Agorophobia.
Its quite easy to change safe places, first it was my home, then my car now its people, i realise they are all safety behaviours, but then i look at it as progress too, especially after been housebound.
Im going to have to work hard on this problem ! i wonder if Nic would fund for me to live on a desert Island for a week !:D there would be no safe places or people there !
Just a thought !!!
Love
Andrea
xxxx
"If you have a worry turn it into a problem, you cant solve worrys but you can solve problems"
Hi there
I can totally relate to both what you have said Andrea and Piglet.
I can do most stuff with people i trust now and do little bits on my own but i still have all the what ifs. I also know its true that its the avoidance that feeds the fear so we have to keep at it.
catch up with you later
bobsy
Everyone will live their lives using avoidance to a greater or lesser extent.
It is part of the motivation strategies that we as humans all have.
We have two motivation strategies:
1. Away from pain
2. Towards pleasure
Anyone suffering from Panic/Anxiety/Agoraphobia will be unconsciously
using these strategies:
"Get me out of here," (away from pain) "and get me to somewhere safe"
(towards pleasure/comfort).
So we all use avoidance. The difference is between the perceived danger
and actual possibility of real danger.
For panic sufferers, the perception is exaggerated.
So... all you avoiders, you are all normal.
Cheers
Steve
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">So... all you avoiders, you are all normal.
Cheers
Steve
<div align="right">Originally posted by sgreen007 - 17 January 2007 : 15:52:59</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Aww thanks hun - you say the sweetest things :D:D:D:D
Seriously Steve that made a lot of sense and like you say is an instinctive human trait.
We are told to trust our instincts aren't we, the trouble is with anxiety and panic that all gets a bit muddled up and then we have to try not to pay attention to our instincts in that regard, as they are leading us up a blind alley!!!
Not easy is it folks!
Piglet :)
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
Also remember once people are 'cured', they seldom come back and tell us. We mostly hear from those still struggling.
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I suppose I'm cured.... haven't had an attack in ages, and can do anything I want to do. And I'm not limiting my wants due to panic!
I "came back" because of this programme and because of the fact that I could relate so much to the lives of the participants.
First and most importantly, I think of panic disorder as I do of alcoholism, or certain cancers, etc. IN THE SENSE THAT I don't believe one is ever "cured." I was completely panic-free and off meds for a year and then relapsed horribly. I think that it's unrealistic to hope for a "cure" -- to live like I lived before the onset of panic disorder, blissfully ignorant. I go by the quality of my life and of those around me.
And I also know that it's possible to relapse a little bit or a lot. I need to keep doing things that used to set off attacks, or that I wouldn't undertake due to anticipatory anxiety, to keep "limber" as it were. My biggest triggers are flying, being far from home, and being alone under certain circumstances -- so I do as much of the above as I can because before panic and after panic, I really do enjoy travel.
to PaulS: I have been in a major CBT programme at a university that is intense work for two months and then years longitudinally. I thought everything was spot on -- until the trip to Tokyo. There are challenges and then there's flooding. I'm stable on meds and I so hope that there's room in your belief system to believe that some people will require meds no matter how educated they are about the disease. In my case it's an SSRI and Klonopin, one of the well-hated benzodiazepines. I have no side effects or cognitive problems with these, and am able to function in a full-time engineering career and as a divorced mother. Xanax did cause short-term memory loss though when I was on it regularly, I *DID* need to be on it regularly. I still take it PRN for long-haul flights. Tapering off was physically horrible, but I did it (years ago).
I'm simply amazed and grateful that you gave these people a chance to *live* in a programme AND that it was shown on television.
to Archana: my heart went out to you from the start. For me, pregnancy and panic disorder are intertwined: the hormones of pregnancy cause a tremendously bad mental state, especially in the first trimester. And I also began my CBT treatment while in my first trimester. I was so disturbed at your husband's threatening to take custody of your child that I cried, because my ex-husband left me near bankruptcy trying to do this to me, despite the fact that he knew full well what toll just being pregnant took on me mentally and physically (I had severe medical complications as well). We now share joint custody and I've survived being on my own without him and the kids as well as single parenting.
to Su: as a fellow mum I also felt for you. I saw how very much your daughter loves you and how she tries to care for you and how much you want to do what "other" mums do. I cried tears of joy when I saw you playing with your daughter in the park. No one can take your amazing achievements away from you, EVER. But you have to get well for yourself. I have experienced having everyone let me down and I know that at the end of the day you can only ever rely on yourself.
to Simon: I feel as if I know you because you remind me very much of a Simon I do know. Like you, I work with computers. A lot of it can be done remotely which is a blessing and a curse as it allows one to stay home and it can lead to isolation if done too much. I had a feeling that anyone into technology would love a trip to Japan ;) but I wasn't sur
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