Sectioned 136 Act

[Richard1960]

Hi not sure if this is the right place to ask but wailer this week i was sectioned under the 136 metal health act,i was dwelled there opportunity to phone for any legal gel,and also they would not let me take my prescribed meds at all.

Is this right cannot talk more as i am off out soon but will be back on this afternoon.Mind are closed this weekend.:weep:

Thanks Richard.

[Rennie1989]

From a quick Google search Section 136 of the Mental Health Act means that you can be taken to a place of safety (hospital or police station) if they (usually the police) believe you have a mental illness. You can be sectioned for up to 72 hours, in which time mental health professionals will assess you and make a decision if you need to be hospitalised (or 'Sectioned') or allowed to leave. You are allowed, by law, to ask for legal advice over your situation.

(http://www.rethink.org/living-with-mental-illness/police-courts-prison/section-136-police-taking-you-to-a-place-of-safety-from-a-public-place)

I'm sorry to hear about your situation and I hope it gets better for you.

[Richard1960]

Hi Thanks very much imdeed.

Yes that is sectoion 136 my beef with them though is i was refused the use of a phone despite repeatedly asking.

And more importantly they fefused me access to my prescribed medication. Depite my asking.

And also i was frozen as the room was cold with no heating my drugs help keep me alcohol free and the citalopram is for my depression,

I was in there 13 hours before i saw any doctor a panel of 3 who released me right away i am taking this foward as it seems rather imhuman to me (no phone calls and being denoed my prescribed medicnes),and the samaritans when i rang them could not believe i had beem denied access to my prescribed meds.

I have aleady complained to the care quality comission and PALS for that trust.:mad::mad:

The safe room the hpospital put me in told mei could not have my own body warmer as i could use it to do myself in,but in 5he room there was there non blanked off plug points i could have done myself in if so desired.When i mentioned this they said we will pretend we have not heard mind you the lady did smile, i was also told various lies,they first told me the romm is run by the police and the police have said that s bull as the hospital trust run it.

[Rennie1989]

The treatment sounds awful!

They removed stuff like blankets because if you were at risk of taking your life they want everything that could cause harm removed. In saying that they should have ensured the room was adequately warm enough. The medication was probably denied because they were reviewing it. Again, this could have been explained to you a lot better to avoid confusion and upset.

You've done the right thing complaining to PALS. I would also consider taking this forward to the Care Quality Commissioner (CQC - regulates hospitals), the Police and Crime Commissioner (if the police did anything you suspect was wrong) and your local MP. Do not accept a wishy-washy apology!

[Richard1960]

The treatment sounds awful!

They removed stuff like blankets because if you were at risk of taking your life they want everything that could cause harm removed. In saying that they should have ensured the room was adequately warm enough. The medication was probably denied because they were reviewing it. Again, this could have been explained to you a lot better to avoid confusion and upset.

You've done the right thing complaining to PALS. I would also consider taking this forward to the Care Quality Commissioner (CQC - regulates hospitals), the Police and Crime Commissioner (if the police did anything you suspect was wrong) and your local MP. Do not accept a wishy-washy apology!

My medication was not being reviewed i never saw a doctor at all,all i saw was a three person panel next day who judged me safe to leave my medication has not been reviewed at all.

The care quality comission already knows i spent two hours on the phone to them yesterday.

Also citizens adivice have also offered help to me,and Unison my Union is offering Legal advice to me.I was just hoping people might be able to give me pointers this afternoon.

Thanks for the helpful reply.

Richard..

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------


The treatment sounds awful!

They removed stuff like blankets because if you were at risk of taking your life they want everything that could cause harm removed. In saying that they should have ensured the room was adequately warm enough. The medication was probably denied because they were reviewing it. Again, this could have been explained to you a lot better to avoid confusion and upset.

You've done the right thing complaining to PALS. I would also consider taking this forward to the Care Quality Commissioner (CQC - regulates hospitals), the Police and Crime Commissioner (if the police did anything you suspect was wrong) and your local MP. Do not accept a wishy-washy apology!

Thats not really my style as a Union rep i wear my heart on my sleeve and can smell bull a mile off.

I have spoken to a senior member of the trust who works on my site and was also apalled and is also raising a written complaint on my behalf,i have loads of documents now,i was asked if i needed an advocate but i do not,as armed with enough info i am more them capable of advocating,after all all of us with mental health problems are humans,who also have brians,its not like they thought of us years ago thank goodness.

We are just ordinary people that have illness like most people do in their lifetime.

The stigma is going.

Richard . x

[MyNameIsTerry]

Sounds really poor Richard but it sounds like you are motivated & balanced and thats a really good thing so keep working on things.

I would really push the issue of the electricity points as that is a potentially lethal risk to those who go in that room in the future.

No chance do the police maintain a room to put people in while they are being assessed. All the police do is respond to the crisis call and take you there if they believe it is required. Some police forces are even taking a qualified nurse with them as a trial now as it helps them determine if they need to take people to these centres.

The attitude of the lady in that place is ludicrous. She, and this place, need to be investigated.

I don't understand about your medication. I can see that it would be right to take it as you could use it to harm yourself but they should still provide you with the adequate dosage. If they don't, its obvious that you could easily start experiencing withdrawal and thats not going to be helpful for anyone who is that seriously unwell already.

Good luck. I think it would be one for local media as they love NHS cobble ups.

[Richard1960]

Sounds really poor Richard but it sounds like you are motivated & balanced and thats a really good thing so keep working on things.

I would really push the issue of the electricity points as that is a potentially lethal risk to those who go in that room in the future.

No chance do the police maintain a room to put people in while they are being assessed. All the police do is respond to the crisis call and take you there if they believe it is required. Some police forces are even taking a qualified nurse with them as a trial now as it helps them determine if they need to take people to these centres.

The attitude of the lady in that place is ludicrous. She, and this place, need to be investigated.

I don't understand about your medication. I can see that it would be right to take it as you could use it to harm yourself but they should still provide you with the adequate dosage. If they don't, its obvious that you could easily start experiencing withdrawal and thats not going to be helpful for anyone who is that seriously unwell already.

Good luck. I think it would be one for local media as they love NHS cobble ups.

Yes the electricity point issue is one in the 20 page dosiier i have now completed,

The drugs i was on were as any mental health professional would know are not lethel as such Campral was a drug i need to maintain alcohol abstinance its not even a controlled drug,and neither was my depression drug citalopram they could have taken then out of the box for me and given me my dosage.

I did start expieriencing withdrwal problmes especially with the campral.

I am now motivated and balanced thanks and intend to proceeedd this to the limits.

I have taken legal advice from my union,and it looks as though any action taken would be covered under the extra insurance on my home contents policy.

The police have been quite helpful dispelling all the bull the unit tried to give me.

And i also work for the NHS and the senior nurse in there is putting a complaint in for me also,so things are moving Terry.:)As well as the complaint i put in to PALS and the Care quality Comission.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Good luck with it Richard.

Its just staggering that they spend time assessing someone and intentionally make them worse by forcing withdrawal symptoms on them. Imagine the damage this could have done to someone who was really in need of hospitalisation?

[Richard1960]

Thanks Terry i had the police phone me up yesterday to put me off making a complaint for their non understanding of section 136 section 58 1984 of the police criminal evidence act ,which actually states.

The person removed has a right of access to legal advice regardless of where the person is detained. Legal Advice when requested should be facilitated by the police.

They are trying to blame the mental health unit for not informing them,i said to him i though it was up to the police to know the law and this guy was a sergeant.!

i have two complaints in three if you include the one about the police.

And have also taken legal advice from a no win no fee solicitor as well as from my own trade union Terry.

Hope you are ok too Richard.

[SarahH]

Every custody unit is recorded (audio and visual) so ask for the copies. Your solicitor can ask for you.
Your "rights" is that you have access to a solicitor in custody , FREE. A custody Sgt will notify one if you requested it when you were being "booked in" OR at any time during your detention.
Now the reason you were not given access to your medication is that whilst in custody (or a "place of safety") the police under Sect 136 are responsible for your safety and they have to be sure that you have not already taken medication and therefore could overdose. Remember they are not Drs and do not know what type of meds you are on or psychiatrists. The "panel" you describe would have been qualified to make the assessment. It should have consisted of a GP, psychiatric nurse and Social Worker (qualified to make an assessment).
You do nor have a "right" to make a phone call. That is an American law. You only have the right to have someone notified of you detention i.e. Solicitor, family member or friend.

Hope that helps

[Richard1960]

Every custody unit is recorded (audio and visual) so ask for the copies. Your solicitor can ask for you.
Your "rights" is that you have access to a solicitor in custody , FREE. A custody Sgt will notify one if you requested it when you were being "booked in" OR at any time during your detention.
Now the reason you were not given access to your medication is that whilst in custody (or a "place of safety") the police under Sect 136 are responsible for your safety and they have to be sure that you have not already taken medication and therefore could overdose. Remember they are not Drs and do not know what type of meds you are on or psychiatrists. The "panel" you describe would have been qualified to make the assessment. It should have consisted of a GP, psychiatric nurse and Social Worker (qualified to make an assessment).
You do nor have a "right" to make a phone call. That is an American law. You only have the right to have someone notified of you detention i.e. Solicitor, family member or friend.

Hope that helps

Thanks the trust refused me a call to a solicitor the police this afternoon said that was their responsibility.,Minds legal team have pointed me in there right direction today but a lot of what they told me i had already done.

The care quality commission have been informed,as has PALs,i was given no assessment in the 13.5 hours i was there IE no doctor visited me,the only people i had contact with were the panel that released me right away.

I have also downloaded the policy of the trust that detained me and have already identified 5 policies of theirs they ignored.

This one is going to have very long legs believe me.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Every custody unit is recorded (audio and visual) so ask for the copies. Your solicitor can ask for you.
Your "rights" is that you have access to a solicitor in custody , FREE. A custody Sgt will notify one if you requested it when you were being "booked in" OR at any time during your detention.
Now the reason you were not given access to your medication is that whilst in custody (or a "place of safety") the police under Sect 136 are responsible for your safety and they have to be sure that you have not already taken medication and therefore could overdose. Remember they are not Drs and do not know what type of meds you are on or psychiatrists. The "panel" you describe would have been qualified to make the assessment. It should have consisted of a GP, psychiatric nurse and Social Worker (qualified to make an assessment).
You do nor have a "right" to make a phone call. That is an American law. You only have the right to have someone notified of you detention i.e. Solicitor, family member or friend.

Hope that helps

Yes, but in this case the police did not take Richard to a police custody suite, they took him to a hospital and at that point the police are no longer responsible as they leave once the hospital take over responsibility. The police will wait with you until you are seen initially though.

In a custody suite scenario, they take everything off you which is fair but this is a long term scenario where late assessment (but still within the alloted time) will cause further distress due to withdrawal since most SSRI/SNRI's have a 36hr life. They have a police doctor but I wouldn't think the police would want to hold someone for 3 days while a panel assesses them, they tend to take them to a hospital where they have such facilities normally. Although the act allows for a place of safety including the police station, I can't say I have heard of that being used unless they have affected an arrest but I could easily be wrong here as its only based on my own experience of these things and police forces differ in their approaches. If they do keep them at a police station, I would expect them to consider meditation needs or they are making the person worse which just creates a case for them being sued for mishandling.

---------- Post added at 03:30 ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 ----------


Thanks Terry i had the police phone me up yesterday to put me off making a complaint for their non understanding of section 136 section 58 1984 of the police criminal evidence act ,which actually states.

The person removed has a right of access to legal advice regardless of where the person is detained. Legal Advice when requested should be facilitated by the police.

They are trying to blame the mental health unit for not informing them,i said to him i though it was up to the police to know the law and this guy was a sergeant.!

i have two complaints in three if you include the one about the police.

And have also taken legal advice from a no win no fee solicitor as well as from my own trade union Terry.

Hope you are ok too Richard.

I guess he could be stating that they had transferred you into the hospital and unless the hospital contact them to state you have requested this right, they would have no idea. In that case, I would imagine its the fault of the Trust unless there is something in the Act which states the police should be following up with them at certain intervals to determine if you have requested legal assistance.

Did the police only take you there? If so, if the Act allows for them to transfer responsibility to the Trust, then its likely they relinquish their duties to you at the point of official transfer. If they kept you at one of their facilities, they would remain responsible until such time as you were transferred or let go.

I haven't read the act so I'm just trying to understand why he may say that.

I would always be careful with a complaint to the police, unless it goes to the IPCC, its going to be 'in-house' and there have been plenty of examples of police cover ups over the years. I would see what your legal representation believes to be correct on that issue.

[mikewales]

Richard, I was just wondering what were the circumstances that caused them to section you in the first place ?

[Richard1960]

Yes, but in this case the police did not take Richard to a police custody suite, they took him to a hospital and at that point the police are no longer responsible as they leave once the hospital take over responsibility. The police will wait with you until you are seen initially though.

In a custody suite scenario, they take everything off you which is fair but this is a long term scenario where late assessment (but still within the alloted time) will cause further distress due to withdrawal since most SSRI/SNRI's have a 36hr life. They have a police doctor but I wouldn't think the police would want to hold someone for 3 days while a panel assesses them, they tend to take them to a hospital where they have such facilities normally. Although the act allows for a place of safety including the police station, I can't say I have heard of that being used unless they have affected an arrest but I could easily be wrong here as its only based on my own experience of these things and police forces differ in their approaches. If they do keep them at a police station, I would expect them to consider meditation needs or they are making the person worse which just creates a case for them being sued for mishandling.

---------- Post added at 03:30 ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 ----------



I guess he could be stating that they had transferred you into the hospital and unless the hospital contact them to state you have requested this right, they would have no idea. In that case, I would imagine its the fault of the Trust unless there is something in the Act which states the police should be following up with them at certain intervals to determine if you have requested legal assistance.

Did the police only take you there? If so, if the Act allows for them to transfer responsibility to the Trust, then its likely they relinquish their duties to you at the point of official transfer. If they kept you at one of their facilities, they would remain responsible until such time as you were transferred or let go.

I haven't read the act so I'm just trying to understand why he may say that.

I would always be careful with a complaint to the police, unless it goes to the IPCC, its going to be 'in-house' and there have been plenty of examples of police cover ups over the years. I would see what your legal representation believes to be correct on that issue.

Yes the trust are fully responsible for contacting a solicitor just had my unions legal team on the phone.

So the trust did not follow its own procedure my doctor today was also very surprised i was refused my medication,that was prescribed for my erin problem and depression.

---------- Post added at 10:47 ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 ----------


Richard, I was just wondering what were the circumstances that caused them to section you in the first place ?

I will post later mike as its a long story.:ohmy:

[Richard1960]

Richard, I was just wondering what were the circumstances that caused them to section you in the first place ?

I had an altercation with a railway guard Mike, who said i had the wrong ticket,so i got off the train at the next stop and went back to the main station,the staff there did not want to help me and the area manager told me i had the wrong ticket and said the ticket was not valid.When i was assured at the station i bought from it was, i had spent nearly half a day sorting it out (with the area manager). with still no resolution and i hate being thought of as a fare cheat,

When on the way home i had a really bad depressive episode on a station platform and i mean bad.So was arrested under section 136 for my own safety,

I spent a night there(mental health unit custody suite) being denied the right to call a solicitor and my medication prescribed by a different branch of the same trust for my illness.

Anyway the rail company area manager rang me up yesterday and confirmed my ticket was indeed valid and even sent me an email to say it was, apparently he said the conductor and he the area manager were confused about the historical wording on the ticket which apparently went back years. They offered an apology and compensation but it ruined which should have been for me a relaxing day which really upset me,and pushed me a bit too far over the edge,

I really wish people who are paid far higher the me actually knew what they are doing.

This is not the first time it has happened to me either and the last time i was proved right,which is why i asked for the email i can download it and carry it around with me so this kind of thing should not happen in future.:)

[Lucinda07]

Appalling treatment by railway staff. They all need LOTS of training.
Keep the email & go for that compensation!
Hope things start to improve for you now.

[MyNameIsTerry]

A catalogue of errors for you then Richard. Does this area manager (someone who doesn't understand a ticket! Surely this is a very basic issue to a firm that operates a rail network with loads of lethal heavy objects racinjg back & forth?) know what this led to? I would expect them to be trying to prevent this reaching the media as these stories are well sort after.

How are you doing now? Still doing well?

[mikewales]

Glad to hear you at least got some resolution with the train people. Not often they actually admit to a mistake, but you have proof you were right.

With the police it sounds like they were very worried about your personal safety, and as much as anything wanted to keep you locked up so they could keep an eye on you and make sure you calmed down and were OK. Sadly they aren't that well trained in dealing with depression etc... so can often only really go by the rules they are given.

I think with the meds that was a precautionary thing as they had no way of knowing if you had taken anything else, and if they would react with them or cause you problems, so from their point of view it is safer to not let you take anything else until enough time has passed to make sure you haven't overdosed on anything else before they took you in.

[Richard1960]

A catalogue of errors for you then Richard. Does this area manager (someone who doesn't understand a ticket! Surely this is a very basic issue to a firm that operates a rail network with loads of lethal heavy objects racinjg back & forth?) know what this led to? I would expect them to be trying to prevent this reaching the media as these stories are well sort after.

How are you doing now? Still doing well?

Hi Terry this os just one line from the emaoil sent me.


The problem arises with the last two zone routes: "Via Ely" which means Norfolk and Cambs, and "Via Cambridge" which means Cambridgeshire only. So an Anglia Plus ticket routed Via Ely is valid anywhere in the Norfolk and Cambridgeshire zones, i.e. Cambridge to Norwich, plus Bury to Cambridge and Ely, plus Norwich to Sheringham/Yarmouth/Lowestoft/Diss. As this ticket is a season ticket it is not purely for leisure travel and can be used at any time of day during its period of validity.



We are aware that the route code "Via Ely" is misleading. It dates back to Anglia Railways days. We can change it but it is not a simple process. At present it is up to conductors to know that the Route Ely ticket is valid in Cambs and Norfolk.


But this has happened twice to me and they just blame the conductors rather then solve the problem by adjusting what they put on the tickets even the area managers do not fully understand it.

Richard.:)

---------- Post added at 08:50 ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 ----------


Glad to hear you at least got some resolution with the train people. Not often they actually admit to a mistake, but you have proof you were right.

With the police it sounds like they were very worried about your personal safety, and as much as anything wanted to keep you locked up so they could keep an eye on you and make sure you calmed down and were OK. Sadly they aren't that well trained in dealing with depression etc... so can often only really go by the rules they are given.

I think with the meds that was a precautionary thing as they had no way of knowing if you had taken anything else, and if they would react with them or cause you problems, so from their point of view it is safer to not let you take anything else until enough time has passed to make sure you haven't overdosed on anything else before they took you in.

Thanks Mike on balance you could have hit the nail on the head its just they did not explain to me reasons for what they were doing i just felt like a walking diagnosis then a human being sorry.

[SarahH]

If you feel that you were treated badly at anytime the Police detained you (from arrest until being taken to the 136 suite or a police station) you can contact the IPCC directly and make a complaint... believe me they do thoroughly investigate complaints (as a retired police officer I have been the other end of complaints). If the have breached PACE codes of practice then heads will roll. People sectioned did, until recently get taken to custody but it is more likely that you were taken to a 136 suite which means when you were handed over you are out of police custody.

Keep going.... but don't let it get you too anxious

Sarah

[Richard1960]

If you feel that you were treated badly at anytime the Police detained you (from arrest until being taken to the 136 suite or a police station) you can contact the IPCC directly and make a complaint... believe me they do thoroughly investigate complaints (as a retired police officer I have been the other end of complaints). If the have breached PACE codes of practice then heads will roll. People sectioned did, until recently get taken to custody but it is more likely that you were taken to a 136 suite which means when you were handed over you are out of police custody.

Keep going.... but don't let it get you too anxious

Sarah

No thanks Sarah the police were fine it was at the detention suite at the hospital after having been handed over i asked for a solicitor 4 times but was refused.


I have phoned up two mental health charities and worryingly even they did not know the answer to that.Its nice to see you posting as it just goes to show people from all walks of life or professions can be afflicted by this terrible illness depression and anxiety.

But thanks i will try and chill a bit as this has been starting to affect my mental health again and i think its got a way to go yet,

Pals and the Care Quality Commission are involved also.I think i have done as much as i can for now.

Richard.xxx

[MyNameIsTerry]

If you feel that you were treated badly at anytime the Police detained you (from arrest until being taken to the 136 suite or a police station) you can contact the IPCC directly and make a complaint... believe me they do thoroughly investigate complaints (as a retired police officer I have been the other end of complaints). If the have breached PACE codes of practice then heads will roll. People sectioned did, until recently get taken to custody but it is more likely that you were taken to a 136 suite which means when you were handed over you are out of police custody.

Keep going.... but don't let it get you too anxious

Sarah

Thats sounds right from Richard first post Sarah. It seems more that the trust have acted badly as opposed to the police.

It is good to hear some advice from a former police officer because many complaints are handled in-house as opposed to by the IPCC and I'm sure we've all read about how some of those have been covered up by their own seniors. The IPCC seems the only way to ever go due to these issues.

It must be very hard for the police dealing with these issues as they just don't have the training they need. I saw a trial taking place whereby a psychiatric nurse would attend with the police to make an onsite assessment but I don't know how far it has advanced.

[Richard1960]

Thats sounds right from Richard first post Sarah. It seems more that the trust have acted badly as opposed to the police.

It is good to hear some advice from a former police officer because many complaints are handled in-house as opposed to by the IPCC and I'm sure we've all read about how some of those have been covered up by their own seniors. The IPCC seems the only way to ever go due to these issues.

It must be very hard for the police dealing with these issues as they just don't have the training they need. I saw a trial taking place whereby a psychiatric nurse would attend with the police to make an onsite assessment but I don't know how far it has advanced.

Not far at all its all Terry as with most things in the NHS cash related.

But that would at least be more human,rather then untrained police officers doing the best they can.With an illness they do not understand.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Terry this os just one line from the emaoil sent me.


The problem arises with the last two zone routes: "Via Ely" which means Norfolk and Cambs, and "Via Cambridge" which means Cambridgeshire only. So an Anglia Plus ticket routed Via Ely is valid anywhere in the Norfolk and Cambridgeshire zones, i.e. Cambridge to Norwich, plus Bury to Cambridge and Ely, plus Norwich to Sheringham/Yarmouth/Lowestoft/Diss. As this ticket is a season ticket it is not purely for leisure travel and can be used at any time of day during its period of validity.



We are aware that the route code "Via Ely" is misleading. It dates back to Anglia Railways days. We can change it but it is not a simple process. At present it is up to conductors to know that the Route Ely ticket is valid in Cambs and Norfolk.


But this has happened twice to me and they just blame the conductors rather then solve the problem by adjusting what they put on the tickets even the area managers do not fully understand it.

Richard.:)



I think I must be missing something Richard because that makes sense to me.

Sounds very much like a crap area manager who is only out to further his/her career. Worked with plenty that have that attitude and its easy to spot when they start to blame their staff for training issues and issues relating to errors in their technology. Funny how he/she didn't know either, yet is still happy to lay the blame at the conductors door. I guess this person doesn't do responsibility!

You can understand it maybe with new conductors, just maybe, but not the rest. To be honest, I have spent a fair few years working in a BA role altering computer systems and I can't see how changing a value is going to be costly for them. If its a variable, its a quick cheap change. If its a fixed value, it depends on the level of work and what is connected to it (plus testing, PM fees, meetings for the sake of procedure, etc) but if its causing critical issues in small numbers you would change it rather than risk the media coverage.

Sounds more like excuses to me mate.

You take care and do what you need to for your health. Let them rumble along with it and remember that some of the larger charities offer advocacy services if you need some support.

[Richard1960]

I think I must be missing something Richard because that makes sense to me.

Sounds very much like a crap area manager who is only out to further his/her career. Worked with plenty that have that attitude and its easy to spot when they start to blame their staff for training issues and issues relating to errors in their technology. Funny how he/she didn't know either, yet is still happy to lay the blame at the conductors door. I guess this person doesn't do responsibility!

You can understand it maybe with new conductors, just maybe, but not the rest. To be honest, I have spent a fair few years working in a BA role altering computer systems and I can't see how changing a value is going to be costly for them. If its a variable, its a quick cheap change. If its a fixed value, it depends on the level of work and what is connected to it (plus testing, PM fees, meetings for the sake of procedure, etc) but if its causing critical issues in small numbers you would change it rather than risk the media coverage.

Sounds more like excuses to me mate.

You take care and do what you need to for your health. Let them rumble along with it and remember that some of the larger charities offer advocacy services if you need some support.


Thanks terry i am ok with advocacy as i am a Union rep ! Its just getting hold of the people i need to talk /negotiate with that is the problem all very nice on the phone oh yes but no answers,still i have a feeling the care quality commission will buck them up.:)

After that the parliamentary Ombudsman certainly will.LOL.

[MyNameIsTerry]

[/B]

Thanks terry i am ok with advocacy as i am a Union rep ! Its just getting hold of the people i need to talk /negotiate with that is the problem all very nice on the phone oh yes but no answers,still i have a feeling the care quality commission will buck them up.:)

After that the parliamentary Ombudsman certainly will.LOL.

Just a thought, there is a Labour MP in Wales, Geraint Davies, who has mental health as one of his key concerns and he has raised a Bill of Parliament for regulation of counsellors & psychotherapists. Some of this appears to be due to gay conversion therapy (some of which were referred by GPs!!!) so I wonder whether this might slot into his areas somehow because this was added for the updated Bill this year so he was clearly unhappy with these professions prior to that? I read his questions to T House over his concerns that the NHS were paying private therapists so I don't know if there is any connection to that trust? Maybe?

The Bill will put them under the scrutiny of the HPC which will likely end a lot of careers!

[Richard1960]

Just a thought, there is a Labour MP in Wales, Geraint Davies, who has mental health as one of his key concerns and he has raised a Bill of Parliament for regulation of counsellors & psychotherapists. Some of this appears to be due to gay conversion therapy (some of which were referred by GPs!!!) so I wonder whether this might slot into his areas somehow because this was added for the updated Bill this year so he was clearly unhappy with these professions prior to that? I read his questions to T House over his concerns that the NHS were paying private therapists so I don't know if there is any connection to that trust? Maybe?

The Bill will put them under the scrutiny of the HPC which will likely end a lot of careers!

Thanks for that Terry had a call a while ago from the head of the Mental Health trust (Nursing Dept) and we have a meeting set up for 3pm next thursday, i think they might have got the message from Essex Healthwatch and the Care quality commission now.

I spoke to the care quality commission this morning and they were most interested about the lack of communication from the trust to me.