Sexual experimentation with sibling

[Dave9599]

Hi, this is my first message and I'm unsure whether this kind of issue is welcome on this forum, but I was part of some sexual experimentation with my younger brother when we were very small, and it is causing me a great deal of anxiety and panic.

I am 19 now, and at the time I was 11 or 12 and my brother was 7 or 8. We used to have duvet days and for some reason at one point we started rubbing our penises together; this occurred perhaps a dozen times over a few months. Also at one point we attempted anal penetration but it didn't work.

It was at this point that I realised how wrong it was and we never did anything like it again, it has played on my mind ever since. I must stress that there was nothing sinister going on, there was no coercion involved. We were two innocent young boys who didn't really know what we were doing. Looking back it was probably early puberty hormonal changes that caused it, but I still feel very strange about it.

What worries me is you hear of sexual encounters between minors, and I heard a rumour that this sort of thing is now classed as rape? What I'm looking for really is some reassurance that I haven't done anything catastrophically wrong, it has got me down for years and I just want to put a lid on it.

I hope this isn't too inappropriate and I hope everyone understands that I wasn't fully in control of what I was doing at the time. Me and my brother were both equally intrigued by the whole thing, it most certainly was not me doing anything to him against his will.

Please try not to judge me, and feel free to redirect me if I'm in the wrong place.

Regards,

Dave

[Oosh]

Don't give it a 2nd thought. I heard lots of these sort of stories, as a boy, growing up.

I remember doing a couple of odd things myself as a boy lol. I don't even know why. I think it's just becoming aware of your own body and reacting to things you don't yet even understand.

Good old anxiety though obviously giving you a big dose of self doubt. I bet you were curious about 1000 other things at that age too. Because sex is taboo that's the only one you remember.

[Dave9599]

Thankyou very much for your reply. I feel like I beat myself up over things like this, where a lot of other people are able to put it behind them quite easily and realise it's unimportant.

Things like this genuinely make me feel like a terrible person, but then with anxiety every little thing is magnified isn't it. Just hard going through life sometimes when everything makes you doubt yourself. Thanks again though you've made me feel slightly better already.

[Annie0904]

I must stress that there was nothing sinister going on, there was no coercion involved. We were two innocent young boys who didn't really know what we were doing.

I think you answered it yourself here. It is quite normal for children to 'investigate'. I think this article may make you realise that it was an innocent thing to do and you are are not the only one http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-advice/for-parents/talking-about-sex/sexual-behaviour-of-children/child-sexual-behaviour_wda96782.html

[Dave9599]

Thankyou very much. The thing I've found is that even though I'm able to rationalise it on the surface, it still doesn't stop the anxiety making me worry about it.

[Tessar]

Dave, whether it's brothers togther or a brother & sister, these things do occur. It happens.
There is a big difference between something consentual and when there is coercion. As you said, you were two innocent young boys ....... I certainly relate to why you'd feel uneasy but am hoping sharing here has helped ease your worries?

[Dave9599]

Yes I feel like it's helped slightly. However anxiety being anxiety my brain is now thinking 'are you sure you didn't coerce him?'. Of course I didn't but that's how my mind works sadly, I just go from one worry to another. I'm never at ease.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I think if you look at the link Annie provided, you have to think about this bullet point in the section about what parents should be concerned about:



interactions between children of significantly different ages / developmental stages


If you look at the age brackets, you are above & below each other which would not indicate you as 'significant'.

In terms of sexual offence, a big part of the question is consent. However, it becomes more complex given your ages because neither of you would be deemed as being able to give consent due to your ages. So, then its going to be back to that bullet point because there would have to be a consideration as to whether one participant had enough understanding to be considered some form of consenting party whereas the other didn't. It could be argued that neither of you did as you didn't understand why you were doing it, only that it was probably an urge and experimentation.

To check that out, you would need to talk to an expert in law and the NSPCC would be the best place to start if you wish to do this.

We all did things when we were young though, I know I did. I can remember a few of us young lads showing each other body parts at that age and so on.

I don't think its more than experimentation from what you have said and I am certainly not judging you but trying to give you an idea of what the law tends to look for. I hope this doesn't cause anxiety.

As to your thoughts about whether you did coerce or not, that is very likely to be intrusive thoughts seen in anxiety. Look at the OCD board where you will see OCD sufferers (often terms Pure O) where they also suffer this about family members. The only difference is that yours have latched onto these memories and started to twist them.

Have you considered any counselling for this? Also, how does your brother feel about this? I hope things are ok between you both.

---------- Post added at 04:20 ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 ----------


Dave, whether it's brothers togther or a brother & sister, these things do occur. It happens.
There is a big difference between something consentual and when there is coercion. As you said, you were two innocent young boys ....... I certainly relate to why you'd feel uneasy but am hoping sharing here has helped ease your worries?

Yes, I agree and I hope Dave keeps posting whether on this issue or just to help with his anxiety.

Sadly, we now live in a society where due to what has happened to children over recent decades we now have parents that look at you in a country park like you are paedophile if you are not there with kids! So, I can understand Dave's difficulty in discussing this as some people can be very ignorant.

[Magic]

Hi There, Annie and Tessar have said the very thing I was going to say.xx

[Dave9599]

Hi everyone thanks for the replies. As soon as I really realised how strange it was I made sure it never happened again, when it happened it was almost like a sudden rush of testosterone and other hormones that I didn't know how to control.

There are 4 years difference in age between us, so even though I knew what was happening slightly more so than him, I still didn't know how wrong it was and I didn't realise how important it was for me to learn to control these urges.

Despite our different stages of development I felt like it was a very mutual thing, if anything my brother was slightly more intrigued by it than me and was more keen to do it. He didn't really associate it with sex though, to him it just felt nice. I knew it was of a sexual nature but it was as though I was too curious to stop him.

At one point during it I remember feeling like it was a good thing that I was releasing these urges with someone close to me rather than a stranger, and almost that what we were doing would be 'good practise' for the future, but then as I gained control over the urges I realised how wrong it was, and it's played on my mind on and off ever since.

I'm just glad that when my mind was more capable of handling it I made sure it stopped, I think it would have been more of a problem if I was completely conscious of what was going on and still decided to continue it.

As for how my brother feels about it, I don't really want to talk to him about it. He does not worry about things like me at all, and I'm wary of the fact that if I bring it up it might bring back strange memories that he had already forgotten, and cause more problems than it's worth. Our relationship is really great, no signs of tension or awkwardness at all.

Thanks again everyone

[MyNameIsTerry]

Thats good news Dave. The fact you have a great relationship with your brother says to me that its not really a problem or it would have caused some level of tension or separation. Perhaps because you stopped this as you became aware of what it really was, it is only you who felt the impact of it and he more easily reconciled it later in his development?

The fact you stopped, even though he still wanted to continue, when you started to gain awareness is very important here. To me that answers the question of consent because if you had continued then it 'may' be construed that you became a consenting party yet your brother remained unable to consent. This is a question for an expert in this type of law really, but I think that would be a crucial question asked.

Hanging onto these memories in a negative context is only going to keep the cycle going. Try to rationalise them as you are doing here so that you can change how you feel about them which will allow you to move beyond them.

Take care and all the best.

[Dave9599]

I managed to tell my mom yesterday after 7 or 8 years of holding it in, and she said it was nothing big and that it was just 'self discovery'. Of course the anxiety I suffer from is giving me plenty of self doubt such as 'did I force him?' And 'did I know what I was doing enough to be considered a consenting party' but deep down I know neither of these were the case. My brain just seems to invent new worries to replace the old ones, I keep beating myself up over everything.

I know that if I were to talk to my brother about it and rationalise it with him, I would be able to put a lid on it. and forget it forever. However I'm reluctant because what if it distresses him unnecessarily? Who knows what effect it'll have on him, and like I said our relationship is fantastic and healthy now. He is strong minded and not affected by much so I do think he would handle it and be fine with it, but it's just a question of whether I risk it now.

I have two choices:

Talk to him and resolve my own distress about it finally after all these years, but risk the possibility of dragging it all up for him and causing unnecessary strain.

Or keep it to myself and don't risk distressing him at all, but with my anxious mind it would cause me more trouble keeping it in than it would most people, and this cycle of anxiety would continue. It would be amazing to be able to dismiss it.

I feel like there's around an 80% chance that he'll be perfectly fine with it and laugh it off, his personality is very jovial and relaxed about things, nothing bothers him at all. Should I take the risk?

[yenool]

I think this type of thing is a lot more common than anyone cares to admit. Children do have an experimental side and can experience arousal, or certainly that was my experience when I was a child. Games of "show me yours I show you mine" "doctor and nurses" and so on that go a little further really can't be uncommon at all.

I can recall similar experiences with a male friend when I was maybe 6-7 and again aged 12 maybe. I too have worried about it since, at one point obsessively to the stage where I convinced myself I was a monster. I talked about it with a psychiatrist at one point and he basically said it was normal childhood experimenting.

The situation you describe is similar. There was no force or coercion and no significant age gap either. I think it is a normal part of growing up. It doesn't make you a paedophile, rapist or gay.

---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------


Yes I feel like it's helped slightly. However anxiety being anxiety my brain is now thinking 'are you sure you didn't coerce him?'. Of course I didn't but that's how my mind works sadly, I just go from one worry to another. I'm never at ease.

By the way, going back over the past and asking questions like "Am I sure" "could it have been" .... basically questions that you know the answer to but will cause you to ruminate and get anxious over is just a classic symptom of anxiety and in particular OCD.

OCD suffers are well known for having anxiety about sexual things, especially rape, violence, etc. Even when they know they have done nothing wrong there is always the "what if...." thought. The urge you have to tell people and 'confess' in order to get reassurance is also classic of OCD anxiety. I would advise you not to go bringing it up with everyone and anyone because it will not give you the reassurance you are seeking anyway. Even if it was a bit 'odd' (which everyone seems to agree it wasn't), you were a CHILD yourself. You have nothing to feel bad for. You need to resolve this in your own mind or talk to a professional.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I'm really glad how this has turned out with your mum Dave, thats excellent news. So, your mum says its just natural childhood experience so take something from that, she spent many years bringing you both up, she's an experienced parent.

I think only you can decide whether to discuss this with your brother. If you ask anyone, your mum is the best to advise as she knows you both and now knows the situation. She has incite into both of you that neither of you have and she can give you advice based on her understanding of you both.

The alternative is to work on your thoughts and reactions. The CBT way seems useful here by challenging or dismissing thoughts, such as by using tools such as Thought Records where you rationalise it on paper by counteracting the initial stating or perhaps by using tools such as Cognitive Restructuring.

What happens when these thoughts occur? Are symptoms present or triggered? Or is it just constant over thinking and catastrophizing?

If the thoughts come, you could use distraction techniques to focus on something else. You could also practice acceptance when they do occur and using affirmations to downplay them.

Something to remember is that this has affected you deeply and recent studies have proved that intrusive thoughts occur in non anxiety disorder sufferers, but they don't notice them. For us, we get them more often but we also react emotionally to them. This is the worst thing to do because the way in which the subconscious stores memories with feelings, sensations & emotions is to look for associations. So, the more you react, the more you reinforce its view.

Thats just like Pure O in OCD sufferers. I've had violent thoughts in the past but I've got rid of the anxiety attached to them through Mindfulness and now if they occur, I either briefly notice them as they pass through or I react in a positive way which has including laughing at how ludicrous they are because thats not who I am. So, maybe you could still get them in the future but if your reaction has changed, they won't affect you anymore.

[jonjones]

Hi Dave,

You know yourself that there was zero maliciousness in this. You were just a kid going through puberty and rapid hormone changes.

The fact that you feel bad about it shows that you had no bad intentions. You got let it go man!

How?

When you start to think about it, say to yourself calmly that it was something done in childhood that was due to hormonal changes, and there was nothing but innocence involved. And take deep breaths, exhale slowly and try to deal with the anxiety by letting it be there. It will pass in its own time.

Just concentrate on dealing with yourself!

Best,

Jon

[DaSilva1727]

Hi Dave,

I had a similar experience when I was a young-mid aged teenager with my sibling too but it was just kind of dry-humping/rubbing our bodies together in somewhat of a sexual way. Happened once or twice and then the urges went away plus only after it happened is when I realized it was wrong and awkward. Plus he got a little bothered by it so that made me realize that I should stop. Ever since then I've been regretting it so much and feel really depressed about the situation.

Don't know what prompted me to do this but probably similar reasons. Urges, experimentation, curiosity and lack of control of hormones. My brother and I were very close, minus the occasional fights, so that might have also led to doing it with him rather then anyone else.

Out of curiosity, did you end up talking to your brother about it ? And if so how did it go and what was the outcome ? Or does anyone else here have any good advice as to what I should do ?

I'm thinking of doing the same but I'm worried that it might cause more harm then good. Our relationship is pretty good at the moment, we talk occasionally and when we do its a positive and friendly interaction. We're not super close yet due to other reasons but we're on very good terms as compared to years ago and its getting better. I just want to make sure he's not affected negatively with what happened and explain to him that it was never done intentionally to hurt him and move on from this whole thing once and for all.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide. Appreciate it !