View Full Version : Dealing with friendly but overbearing people
NE21 worrier
06-11-14, 00:10
Hi folks,
Sorry it's been a while again. I guess that's a good sign and I got away to Prague ok last month (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=160651) (*although I did need a small amount of diazepam for the flight out). Had a well-earned break there after changing jobs in June and having to learn a load of new stuff at work.
Work is going generally well but my processing of applications is checked and I made a mistake last week. I've not had the results from tonight's checking but I know from looking back at it that I have made another error tonight.
Now, I know from past experience that I regularly judge myself by far too high standards (perfectionism) and a cursory 'be careful' warning is probably all that will happen at this time. I have therefore think that I have got this in a reasonable amount of perspective.
Nevertheless, it is not nice making mistakes and I want to do all I can to minimise them. Unfortunately, at the moment, I am sat next to someone who is rather overbearing. He is constantly chattering or asking questions (often work-related, in fairness) but it is proving distracting to my work as I lose my place when I assist him. I feel sometimes as if I'm dealing with his applications as well as my own.
He's a nice bloke generally and I've been out socially with him a couple of times - but, even then, he has got on my nerves somewhat. An example: on Friday, I agreed to have a drink after work with him and a few others but told him I was meeting a friend up from London who I had known for a long time afterwards. On leaving, he practically begged me to stay for one more drink despite me having made my intentions pretty clear - and then seemed put-out when I did leave.
I'm not normally that assertive, though, and I'm worried the day-to-day chattering/distraction will lead me to make further errors at work. As I say, he's a nice enough lad but I just feel one day I'm going to snap and tell him to leave me alone in a not-so-nice way!
Any hints on how to deal with this one?
Peter
---------- Post added at 01:10 ---------- Previous post was at 00:55 ----------
Okay, I've been doing some reading on this. I guess I'm a bit of an academic so I always try and read up when I've stumbled across an issue.
It seems I have to do a couple of things to improve the situation:
1. Erect boundaries Basically, tell him I need to concentrate
2. Show him the way Don't sort things out for him, tell him how he can sort things out.
This will require an assertive attitude which is not something which comes naturally - and I want to approach the situation as diplomatically as possible.
You kind of answered your own question in the addition, but I'll still put my two cents in :)
If you're in the middle of something when he starts talking to you, try telling him you need a few minutes to get done but that you'll help him when you're finished. That will give you some time to work in peace, but may be easier (and seem kinder) since you're still promising to help him.
It may be less that he is lost on what he is doing and more that he's bored or he likes you and wants to interact with you. Maybe when you're helping him you can teach him and make it clear that you're teaching him. If he asks you the same question again, answer it, but say something like "remember when I showed you how to do that? here, I'll show you again." That's friendly and helpful but gets the message across that you're willing to help if needed, but he needs to learn at the same time (again, that goes with #2 of what you read).
I know how it feels to be concerned about being too assertive or coming across as mean; been there. I also know how it feels to be the "lost worker" who has to ask questions about what to do, so I try to be sympathetic and extra-helpful to those who look like they could use my help. It's not always easy :)
NE21 worrier
06-11-14, 12:35
Thanks Poppy.
It sounds like I know what I need to do - it's actually putting it into practice which is the real problem. I can show assertiveness on a few isolated occasions but this guy can be so persistent and even clingy (if that's the right word) and I've not really set boundaries with which I feel particularly comfortable.
The truth is I'm not sure I can do it without hurting his feelings and I'm scared of doing that :(
PS. I've searched for courses in the north east on improving my self-confidence/assertiveness but they all seem to cost hundreds of pounds and seem corporate and frankly a bit of a rip-off. Does anyone know of any cheaper alternatives?
---------- Post added at 13:35 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------
UPDATE
OK, I've just been on the phone to my local Mind and it seems like they have a Wellbeing project which fits the bill in terms of an assertiveness course.
It's no quick fix but I think it will help overall. I'll need to get a referral from my GP, though.
Allow me to add something to the discussion. What's the worst that can happen if you are assertive, set boundaries, insult that guy and he stops talking to you?
Problem solved? ;)
I say this due to a similar situation my wife found herself in. She met a woman at the market and they became fast friends. They spent the next few weeks together almost every day. I even met her husband and we were invited to their home for dinner. It was a nice time and while her husband is a nice guy, we didn't have much in common. So..... it started to become evident that this new friend was a "taker" if you know what I mean. My wife was getting tired of always being on the giving side. Her time, her energies etc. If my wife didn't answer a text or the phone immediately, the calls and texts would start coming full force. Then, if she didn't reply immediately, she would show up at the door! Okay... "Houston, we have a problem!"
My wife felt much the same as you. She didn't want to hurt her feelings etc. etc. Well, finally after hiding upstairs ignoring the door one day she called and left a message to please call before coming over. She said there are times she needs to get things done for herself and can't spend every day running errands, hanging out etc. It was done in a very nice and PC way. She hasn't heard a word since. In fact, she called to say hi and make arrangements to get together and was hung up on!
Being assertive did two things. Most importantly, it showed this persons true colors and it also solved the issue of being too friendly and overbearing.
Positive thoughts
NE21 worrier
06-11-14, 22:18
Well, another shift down and I have to say that I feel no more comfortable about the whole situation.
Tonight we were on different sections of the office (not intentional, just happened) but we still saw each other at break. He knows I'm busy this weekend yet he still invited me to the cinema. I bet I sound like a right grump but I generally don't want to hang out with people from work that much in my social life.
A drink on a Friday night every now and then but that's about it tbh. He just doesn't seem to understand...
Just a thought...perhaps he fancies you?
That's as delicate as I could get it I'm afraid
NE21 worrier
06-11-14, 23:37
Ahaha! That would be nice but he has a girlfriend. That is how it comes across, though...
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/infopax.cfm?Info_ID=51
---------- Post added at 23:40 ---------- Previous post was at 23:38 ----------
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/infopax.cfm?Info_ID=47
NE21 worrier
07-11-14, 00:20
The assertiveness modules on there have been really good bedtime reading, Annie. Thanks :)
NE21 worrier
07-11-14, 11:26
And yet I've still woken up this morning so wound up about this!
What is wrong with me? :mad: It's as if I don't believe I can be straight with this guy...
---------- Post added at 11:26 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------
OK, more thoughts... (you can tell I'm like a cat on a hot tin roof about this and this is a bit of a stream of consciousness tbh):
I think I need to send a message to him first off as I feel uncomfortable raising something like this face-to-face, as cowardly as that sounds.
OK so...
Assertiveness is the ability to stand up for ourselves and to say how we feel when we feel we need to.
So, how do I feel and what do I want out of this situation?
I feel uncomfortable with the constant invites as I keep my work life and my social life largely separate. This does not mean that I don't like going out at all with work people but in previous places I've usually just done a few drinks every now and then (usually on a Friday).
I hope you don't take this the wrong way and I suspect it says more about me than it does about you - you're a very sociable chap - but I just thought I should say something in case you took offence to me constantly turning things down.
I like the message - but back it up when you are face to face so he doesn't think you'rebeing two faced. So perhaps you could say something at work like "did you get my message" "I hope my message didn't come accross as rude" at least then you've acknowleged it and brought it up before he has the chance. He must be bothering other people at work too maybe mention something to them?
NE21 worrier
07-11-14, 11:39
For sure, Pancho, I will.
I sit next to him at work (on evenings) so it's not as if I can avoid him - indeed, I don't want to do that... I just wish to redefine some boundaries. I'm sure he's likely to bring it up, hopefully in a sympathetic way as he seems a nice enough chap.
I've just got myself so wound up that I've woken up and had to do something about it because, as silly as it sounds, I was going to make myself ill over it. I've not slept well and didn't eat last night. Always a sign there's something that needs to be sorting.
OK, message sent with the following exact wording:
Hi xxxxx
I think I need to let you know something before I get too wound up about it. I need to tell you that I feel a bit uncomfortable with the many different invites you mention as I generally keep my work life and social life largely separate. I say largely because this doesn't mean I don't like going out at all with work people. In previous places, though, I've usually just done a few drinks every now and then.
Anyway I hope you haven't taken this the wrong way, and I suspect it says more about me than it does about you - you're a very friendly and sociable chap - but I just thought I should say *something* in case you were taking offense to me constantly turning things down.
PS. thanks for introducing me to Ben Howard*, though. Gave the whole album a listen at last and it relaxed me lovely :)
(*A gig we've arranged to go to next April. Even this felt a little forced on me but it is the sort of music I like.)
Very diplomatically worded and PC NE21.
Positive thoughts
NE21 worrier
07-11-14, 13:25
Aye, he's got back to me. I think he understands - although he didn't consider I had turned too much down.
I replied that may be so but consolidated the point that a getting a crowd together for a few post-work drinks suits me best.
I think I've gone as far as I can by text message tbh. At this stage, it's probably easier for me to explain anything more face-to-face. In a way, when you approach a subject that can be a bit delicate like this, I'm glad he's still happy to communicate with me.
It would be a shame if I had lost any sort of relationship with him as he's a decent guy and a few gigs here and there could make us really decent friends. I guess I'm quite guarded and I don't open my heart out too easily. There's necessarily nothing wrong with that, of course - it's just who I am.
I've just been introduced to Ben Howard too...I like his not-so-commercial stuff. Great at guitar.
I think that was worded well...people like this need to be told. I wonder how his girlfriend copes with him?!
Reminds me of that awful man in "nine months"...not Hugh Grant, the one with the kids
NE21 worrier
10-11-14, 22:57
OK, a little further update on this:
The guy next to me was still pretty annoying tonight, not leaving me in peace at times, and inviting me out on Saturday with his friends again even though I'm already doing other things. Sigh.
Anyway, I don't think he'll ever really understand so I've taken on a different tack of just accepting he will be annoying to me at times. Hopefully, there will be a shake-up in the office soon as they are quite regular...
NE21 worrier
11-11-14, 10:37
Basically spent the morning getting myself right wound up about this again. It's really spoiling what would otherwise be a pretty decent job... :sad:
Have you tried more of "not ever" rather than "no" approach? As in, "look, I'm not going to ever come to these things so you might as well stop inviting me. Please let me get on with my work". I know it seems easier in writing but...yeah
Have you tried more of "not ever" rather than "no" approach? As in, "look, I'm not going to ever come to these things so you might as well stop inviting me. Please let me get on with my work". I know it seems easier in writing but...yeah
I'm in sales. Use a "softening statement" such as "I really appreciate you asking me to come hang out but it's pretty much not going to happen. Thanks again but I need to get back to work". A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down ;)
Positive thoughts.
NE21 worrier
21-11-14, 14:34
Yeah, so this again.
I thought I had been getting on better with this fella at work as there was someone sitting between us. That person has now moved on (he was on my team as a stopgap) and, last night, the fella became pretty overbearing again.
In the space of a couple of hours, he suggested invites to:
1) A night out with his friends on Saturday - I told him I'm busy
2) A quick meet-up after the NUFC match before I meet my friends - I told him I don't quite know what my friends' plans are
3) Dinner on 20-December - I told him I would consider it as I think I am free (I was being honest here!)
4) The football match between Scotland and Germany in March - I made non-committal noises and said I was an England fan(!)
Don't think I've quite nailed this one - I'm rubbish at assertiveness - and I can feel it's going to work me up soon. He just doesn't seem to get it :sad:
This guy is pretty weird isn't he. I'm lost for ideas
NE21 worrier
21-11-14, 15:09
Yeah, it's a strange situation - but I can't help feel that I've perhaps not helped myself in giving off mixed messages by actually saying YES to some things (e.g. the gig, pretty much agreed to go to the meal).
Perhaps it would have been better if I had just said NO to everything and he would have started to leave me alone by now - but it's not really in my nature and he can be an alright guy so I don't mind doing something every now and then.
The problem seems to be that he has taken my agreement to certain things as a carte-blanche to invite to me pretty much to everything.
I didn't really want to be too drastic about the situation but I might have to get a manager involved. This only really started when we were moved onto the same team about a month ago, now I have a seat next to him and he can prove pretty distracting.
I also feel generally as if my anxiety seems just to be latching onto all sorts of things at the moment - but I don't know if this is just a rough patch or I need some genuine help again :sad:
Just a rough patch :) I have them every now and then where I am anxious for a bit about everything and my mind is noisey - but then it goes. It's only a problem if you see it as a problem.
I think it would be best to talk to your manager. Perhaps he'll latch on to someone else, then the manager will notice he's chatting away and not doing his work.
NE21 worrier
22-11-14, 12:00
OK so this guy was really annoying last night to the point where I had to ask him to be quiet so that I could get on with my work. He was constantly asking questions about all sorts of stuff, some of which I was interested in - but I really just didn't want to talk at that point. I had got myself wound up about him again so I wasn't feeling too good.
Why was I so wound up? Well, our whole team is moving to the day shift from 01-December - that's 7.5hr shifts (not the current 4 hr shifts) - and I couldn't bear to be trapped right next to the guy everyday over that length of time. So, finally at my wit's end, I bucked up the courage to talk to a fellow member of the team in confidence about how distracting I found him. This has been relayed to the manager and I have been assured that, when we move onto the day shift, I won't have to sit next to him.
I'm sure it won't stop all of the invites but it may lessen them. As I say, he's a nice enough guy generally, just tries hard to be too nice sometimes, and it has been suffocating.
NE21 worrier
09-12-14, 18:36
Ok, this has been rearing its ugly head again this week so I've sent the following text message after coming in from work, after sitting next to him for the last few days (my computer away from this person was broken):
Hi,
I regret having to send another message like this but it would seem you have misunderstood me in a previous message which I sent.
Basically I need you to be less overbearing with your suggestions and learn to take No for an answer from me. I doubt this has been intentional on your part but I feel as if I've been made to feel guilty about certain choices.
In terms of specifics? E.g. the way you were astonished I might want to go out after the meal with friends I have known for 15 years over a bunch of people I have only known a few months.
However, this even goes to the level of going out for chips. You ended up asking so many times that I ended up saying Yes just to stop you from asking, and it is not right to make decisions like this. I would rather make decisions on my own terms.
It effectively comes down to me not generally doing all sorts of stuff with work people in the past. I've usually just done drinks near payday and left it at that. I'm sorry if you wanted to involve me more but I'm just not that interested.
Clearly this has wound me up. I can be garrulous at times but normally my text messages are not that long(!)
Do people still think I have been reasonable, though?
Thanks,
Peter
I think you have been reasonable. What's the worst that can happen? He stops talking to you? Best result too! I think Fishmanpa mentioned that earlier, but I'm stealing it.
Your good quality - not bitchy. You've only told one person in confidence. A lot of people go round bitchin about people like these until everyone hates them. At least by not doing that he might just try it with someone else now and they'll be oblivious :D
I do feel bad for you, it must be really putting pressure on your work life.
NE21 worrier
31-12-14, 03:20
Sigh.
This person isn't even in work tomorrow (and I am, followed by a New Years party which I will no doubt sleep through) as I'm still spending a sleepless night worrying about how to deal with his overbearing-ness.
It's never really gone away and, in fact, has left me regretting moving onto the day shift with him. I'm seriously considering about asking to move back onto evening shift (less hours and less money) but I'm worried about how the move would be perceived by management. Also, I worry about being considered a failure as I really thought I had made it when getting onto days and it also seems a bit of a petty solution...
NE21 worrier
02-01-15, 00:18
OK. So I've worked out pretty much that this specifically was the trigger for an awful last 48 hours in which I suffered from total insomnia (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=164068) (on the night of 30-31 Dec) before a spell of crushing anxiety.
Discussed the matter with family in Berwick last night and they have said that I simply must deal with this issue properly early in 2015. Basically, it is now at the stage where he hasn't got the message and it's actually now gone so far that I need to tell him just to leave me alone. Unfortunately, this assertiveness goes against all of my usual behaviour and so I'm getting myself wound up even just at the prospect of doing it :sad:
Nevertheless, the alternative is to allow his behaviour to continue making me ill, even if it is unintentional on his part, and I simply cannot stand for it any longer. Indeed, I should not have stood for it for this long, to be honest.
Thanks for reading,
Peter
Peter, you have reached the stage where you have to tell him to back off for the sake of your own sanity. I'm like you in that I find it very difficult to be assertive but if he's not getting the message then things need to be spelt out in black and white.....
......and on the black and white subject, I have to admit that I'm a Palace season ticket holder so one bit of good fortune for you is that we have relieved you of the Silver Fox aka Mr Pardew!:D God help us!
I really feel for you and this guy probably doesn't even realise how he's getting to you but I don't think there's any room for negotiation here? Good luck and just get things sorted once and for all as soon as you can?
That's extraordinary that he didn't change after that message!
Could maybe try blanking him?
---------- Post added at 19:35 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------
Blanking - it sounds so childish, but in the case of nuisance callers, we do it all the time
NE21 worrier
05-01-15, 20:37
First day back today so time for an UPDATE.
Thanks @pulisa. I'm certainly looking forward to the day that this all passes. I know all things eventually do but it's sometimes hard to convince myself of this given that this issue has already gone on for sometime, and gone through various phases, with a couple of text messages where I have attempted to explain my position (and failed).
[Enjoy Pardew btw, we're glad to be rid of him (and not just because he is a "Cockney" - we love lots of those (a lot of Keegans team were Londoners) - but because he couldn't win a derby or a cup match, and led us on terrible losing streaks while being nothing more than a mouthpiece for Mike Ashley. He might do better where he feels more at home as, in fairness to him, he could still pull off some good results at St James].
@Pancho Yes, the latest message, as blunt as it was, didn't work - but part of that was my fault as - having explained some of my caution may have been down to my anxiety issues - I accepted his point that it was a good thing to be accepted into a group and, while he would give me some space, I shouldn't view the overall situation as a negative. As I explain below, I think this has made my overall situation even more difficult.
Btw, I do hear what you're saying but total blanking would be difficult. But, at the end of the day, we're on the same team, in a row of four desks with me at the window and him at the other end of the row. This is fine in itself as it keeps two other members of the team between us and much better than the original plan to have us sitting together.
Having already got the manager to change plans (without this person knowing), I'm not sure I want to do it again when it wouldn't make that much of a difference. I suppose my biggest problem is that I have been inconsistent in my own behaviour, going on a regular mid-morning break with him and having a couple of nights out.
Today, I told him I would not be attending his friend's birthday on Saturday as I was trying to give up or cut down on the drink (largely true!) and I missed out on the morning break (which is always with two other people not on my team) so that I did not have to be further questioned about this.
I wasn't particularly assertive when I said No about Saturday as he said "I'm sure there'll be other occasions" to which I just mumbled "Maybe" in response.
The truth is that I just want to go to work, do my fair shift, and come home. I don't really want to be part of a big social grouping (I already have one of those!) and I think I would tend to be happier if I could take most of my breaks on my own - although that wasn't the case today with all this going round my head.
Indeed, I felt as if I were a right miserable sod sat there on my own - maybe he is right and I would feel better with a group. Or maybe I just need to find myself a group that will keep work and play separate, as I desire. I don't know anymore and that is part of my problem.
This should be about me building my confidence back up in a full time job which I can do. Instead, it has turned into another unexpected anxiety nightmare :sad:
Peter
I would feel just the same as you, Peter. Some people just don't or can't take the hint. I would urge you not to focus too much on this predicament as I doubt whether this person has the slightest inkling of your distress and is just continuing to offer what he thinks is good advice etc etc. Not everyone wants to be sociable outside of work and if you are perfectly entitled to keep to yourself and work efficiently if you want to-there are no rules that you HAVE to be all pally-pally at work and afterwards.
If it were me I think I'd have to say that I'd prefer him just to back off as it was causing unnecessary distress and just to respect my choices. As you say, you don't want this added anxiety and it will continue to build and occupy your distressed mind and add extra pressure to your life. I really hope you manage to make him listen and respect your wishes. It is a perfectly reasonable request.
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