Work issues :(

[Pineapplepie]

I'm currently signed off sick due to anxiety and eating disorder.
I'm on medication and I saw my doctor 2 days ago for a review. She took some blood tests and we had a chat.
I also had my first assessment with my local psychology department this morning, but they want to confir with my doctor about what the best treatment will be as I'm also on the waiting list at the eating disorders clinic.

My condition is getting worse daily when it comes to my relationship with food. My anxiety makes it worse, then I get over anxious about eating. It's just a cycle really.

My workplace are not that great. So far I've spoken to four people in my HR department for attendance. My doctor has reassured me that I don't need to explain myself to them and they are not medical experts. But I've had them asking me
● how am I coping with my baby? ● what do I do all day at home? ● what medication am I on, how much am I taking?

I felt this was very intrusive so I asked for a referral to occupational health. It took around four weeks for them to eventually contact me. When they did they went through the relevant medical questions and we're very nice and understanding. The lady assured me I would now only have to deal direct with her.

But since then 2 more people have been harassing me again from HR. I had a call today asking me to go in on Monday to meet with my business manager. This is something I've already told them I would prefer not to do this at work (work colleagues/awkward questions about my absence ) so they said they are happy to meet me else where. I agreed to do this, but now have also had an email from my union rep asking for a chat.

I just can't deal with any of this and I don't know what to do. My anxiety is off the scale today and I already had a bad day with food yesterday. I feel completely on edge.

Please has someone got any advice? I know the business manager will be asking yet more questions and I just can't talk to almost strangers about this.

Meltdown

[MyNameIsTerry]

I remember going through a load of this myself.

They do not need to know what medication you are on or the dosage, that is solely between you & your GP. At most they can make a note of medication being used in your case as a marker, but nothing beyond that. That is intrusive and they are would not have the ability to understand it. If they wish to understand more about this they can ask for an occupational assessment with their own dept or a company contracted GP. They can also write to your GP, but your GP will not release anything without your written consent. Again, there is no need for access of your medical records and your GP could probably send them a letter anyway to avoid divulging loads of info.

Is your baby relevant? If not, no they don't need to know. They may be thinking that having a baby is stressful and want to understand the impact on your health. They don't really need to know much about this so I would be giving them very little info back.

Asking you what you do at home is of no relevance to them unless they are trying to assess whether you are trying to help yourself recover or are doing nothing which is adding to it all.

These types of questions are well beyond the remit of HR or managers and from my experience, they would ask about how you feel, what you may be doing, etc but it is quite general and anything of any detail for them to understand your health and any impacts on it, would come from occupational health who are trained to conduct such interviews.

Constantly being bounced around and having to constantly re-explain things was stressing me further and I ended up with the same people each time instead. You could ask for this on that basis.

Not sure what your union rep is calling for unless he/she has been contacted by you or them. It could be about this meeting and whether you want them there.

They can come to your home,l like mine did, due to not wishing to go back (I couldn't even be in the building where my panic was occurring) or meet at a neutral place which may be another office or premise they use.

[hanshan]

Hi Pineapplepie,

Once you are sick enough to require a doctor's treatment, then it is your doctor who should communicate with your workplace regarding your suitability for work.

Under no circumstances should you be forced to answer intrusive questions either from human resources or anyone else in your workplace.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Not in the UK Hanshan, it remains the employees duty and employers have nothing to tell them they should work with a GP. Do you mean when some one is sectioned? That would be a different matter and may come down to legal guardianship first, maybe a supervising doctor if you have no one else.

A GP has no involvement with employers other than to issue a FIT note to the patient who provides it to their employer or an employer can write to your GP requesting release of your medical records providing you have given written consent to prove to your GP that they are allowed to release them.

On a FIT note now, a GP can put information relevant to getting you back to work as there is a tick box for a conditional return to work. In terms of whether an employer actually does what a GP says though, is a legal matter to ensure no later tribunal. Employers don't even have to take the advice of their own occupational people who can be GP's employed by them...its all down to HR and the legal aspect.

Your line manager should be conducting sessions to discuss your issues and how they can get you back to work. HR can be present but they don't really need to be until your line manager advances you to the Capability processes where documented sessions will become formal.

It sounds like they make the GP's work a lot harder in your country!

[Pineapplepie]

Hi and thankyou for the replies.

Since my post I've received a not very nice letter from HR/attendance just basically stating their sickness policy.
I spoke to my union rep who is also coming to the meeting, which is in a neutral place this week

I don't know how Im going to cope with three perfect strangers quizzing me. I find all of this hard enough to talk about to my GP and my family. It's going to make me frantic having to answer their questions. What if they ask me something I don't feel comfortable answering?

Does anyone have any examples of stuff they may say?

Unfortunately occupational health will not be present only the business manager, HR manager and union rep

[MrAndy]

cant you ask for an agenda before the meeting ?,at least then you can prepare up front.
I went back to work after 3 months off so I know how hard it can be,dont let anybody put you under pressure to go back to soon !

[blueangel]

If you are going to have a union rep with you, then he/she will not let anything inappropriate happen. I'm a union rep myself and have probably covered hundreds of meetings like this.

A couple of things to consider:

* you don't *have* to tell them anything about your condition, but if you have long-term anxiety or depression, then you will fall under the remit of the 2010 Equalities Act. In these circumstances, it's actually in your best interests to share information about your condition. This information must be kept confidential and only shared with your manager, HR and Occupational Health
* Do your best to co-operate with the management process - don't give HR a stick to beat you with
* As someone else has said above, HR/managers don't *have* to take the advice given to them by Occupational Health, but they need to be able to justify why they're not doing that, as they put themselves at risk of discrimination and legal action
* In the end, you *will* be better getting back to work - research has proved that the longer people are off work, the more difficult it is for them to return. Your employer should offer you support to get you back to work, which could be temporarily adjusting your working hours or duties, or doing a phased return to work for you, allowing you to get back into the job gradually

Hope this helps!

[MyNameIsTerry]

I agree with MrAndy, ask for an agenda if possible so you can prepare. If they have anything specific they want to know, it will help to have some notes with you as it can be daunting until you start recovering.

A HR rep is not required to attend meetings to discuss health prior to entering a Capability process, but there is no reason they can't support in an informal manner, so is this a first stage Capability Hearing? If so, then I would expect they will explain why they have called you there, ask you how you are doing & what you are doing to return, may ask to gain access to medical records (not worth doing this in my opinion, not their business what you discuss with your GP), will likely want to refer you to occupational health for assessment (this should be confidential and in the case of my company the OH nurse took notes for their dept and wrote a separate more general report to be forwarded on to managers), determine if they are going to award you a first stage Capability Hearing letter or opt for redundancy if you cannot return to work ever due to your health (this is more complicated and I would expect some discussion with you first so wouldn't expect it at an early heating like this unless you had been discussing it with them prior to this), give you a timescale fo recovery or a second stage will take place, and explain your right to appeal.

Thats what you may get in an official capability scenario. If this meeting is more informal like the monthly ones managers will usually perform, its a very light affair but you wouldn't normally have HR there (see point above) and I can't see a union rep would be involved, which makes me think this one if official. If it is, I would expect they would send you a 'pack' of some sort outlining what will happen and providing you with any supporting documentation (this may be down to the employer though).

I would also suggest getting information off your union rep about this meeting and prepare together in some way.

Just to pick up on the point blueangel made about confidentiality...thats the measure of the law and its common for information from such meetings in my experience to be circulated by gossip from unprofessional managers, HR people, etc. So, I would certainly advise you to discuss your condition but also consider whether everything is something they need to know because if something isn't going to impact on your return to work - they won't care so why tell them? Just something to think about. This may not be the case at your company, but it was rife at mine and I believe in making people aware so they can make their own decisions based on their experience of their workplace.

In regards to redundancy, speak to your union rep about that (maybe blueangle can give more information on this...I'm less aware of this side) but aside from redundancy due to being unable to continue and return, there is also an option for it if the Capability process itself would be too stressful for the condition.

[hanshan]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the info on the process in the UK. Waaah!!!

If I can qualify what I wrote above, the principle is that once you are sick enough to require a doctor's treatment, then the doctor's opinion about your suitability for work carries as much or more weight than your own. It doesn't mean that the doctor needs to communicate directly with the workplace - they can do so via a written letter or note given to the employee.

Past that, I can't speak for the exact rights of employers in either the UK or Australia. But as a union member when I was in Australia, I would always say, get the union on your side if it seems there will be a battle with management (and I also worked in management).

[MyNameIsTerry]

That sounds like our system then hanshan. Employers don't have to accept what your doctor says but they have to challenge it through their own medical assessment. This is where it can get a bit messy. I remember someone I worked with who was under a consultant and her manager referred her to the company doctor, a retired GP, who disagreed with the consultants assessment. This left her being bounced around until her operation where she spent months in a brace for the repair to her back which the company GP said didn't exist. Really...who would you believe, a specialist consultant or a retired GP who's licence doesn't allow him to even offer advice to a patient about anything beyond general?! Crazy, eh?

In the UK, the doctors opinion would be considered as trusted compared to the employees who's opinion will count for little as they would do a referral to occupational health if they wanted to disprove it, or more likely they would place the ball in your court by asking for medical proof which goes back to a GP FIT note.

[hanshan]

So it comes down to an adversarial system of "our experts" versus "your experts". Since nobody can really judge medical experts, if big money is involved, lawyers will do the talking, and pocket a lot of the money along the way.

Minutes from going to court, they will reach a "settlement". I haven't been there, but my brother did some years ago.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, it can depend on the employer. In the case of my company, the policies were ok but it was more the people, the managers who were the issue. Tons of inconsistency, 9-5 non caring managers, nepatism, backstabbers & arse lickers, etc. I was a manager there myself for years and it drove me mad working with people like this as I had started at the bottom and remembered how it used to cause problems for me so always wanted to make things better for those working for me.

When I went through a Capability process, the occupational health team agreed with me and advised them to make adjustments but they wouldn't. The OH nurse even told me my managers were refusing to respond to them which is ludicrous as they were in-house OH! In the end I got sick of fighting incompetence and quit.