PDA

View Full Version : Blood clot in stool



popejoan
22-12-14, 14:40
As I convinced myself I have bowel cancer sp I check my stools for blood almost everyday but until today I was never sure I was actually bleeding.
Today I found a blood clot mixed in my stool, I took it out with a toilet paper and it stained the toilet paper.
I'm on my period but it can't be period blood as I found it in my stool, it wasn't on the surface or at the end of the stool, it was mixed with stool.
So now this is the death sentence for me, I have low ferritin levels as well so it means I've been bleeding, becoming anemic and I have bowel cancer.

---------- Post added at 14:40 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------

Anyone? Has anyone had rectal bleeding during period?

robin321
22-12-14, 14:48
My wife used to get some blood from her bum near her period..it hasn't happened from close to a year, and used to be intermittent (gone for months, back for a few days).

At the time I did research, and read that blood can aggravate hemmoroid or fissure due to increased blood flow in body at menstruation time.

First - are you sure it was blood? I think usually blood isn't mixed into the stool. Usually when something is in stool it is something else. For example, when I eat tomatoe sauce or pizza, or licorice, I get red in my stool. Same for wine, or beats.

I have had blood with my colitis, and basically the whole bowl was red. Not just parts.

But even if it is blood, why are you assuming cancer? Crohns, ulcerative colitis, rectal prolapse, hemoroids, can all cause this.

As for low ferratin - you posted when I was worried about my wife. She has this, and so far is having a bad response to iron tablets. She is trying liquid iron. I was stressed and am still am. But this is based on my nature, not facts. As you know, low ferratin is common in women. You are making a link with you gastro symptoms, but one doesn't prove the other.

popejoan
22-12-14, 15:02
Thanks for your reply. Until today I wasn't sure at all but today I found the blood clot in my stool, I know it's gross but I took it out with toilet paper and it did burst and it colored the paper blood, I'm 100% positive it's blood. It looked like period blood but I never had this before, it was definitely in my stool.
I know low ferritin is common among women but now I saw this blood clot I can't think of anything else.
I also have very loose stools and bad cramps, I'm on the pill for 10 years but my most recent smear test and following colposcopy showed endometrial tissue on my cervix, I want to think there is endometriosis in my intestines but it's highly unlikely as I don't have period cramps and I'm on the pill.

snowflake293
22-12-14, 16:34
Thanks for your reply. Until today I wasn't sure at all but today I found the blood clot in my stool, I know it's gross but I took it out with toilet paper and it did burst and it colored the paper blood, I'm 100% positive it's blood. It looked like period blood but I never had this before, it was definitely in my stool.
I know low ferritin is common among women but now I saw this blood clot I can't think of anything else.
I also have very loose stools and bad cramps, I'm on the pill for 10 years but my most recent smear test and following colposcopy showed endometrial tissue on my cervix, I want to think there is endometriosis in my intestines but it's highly unlikely as I don't have period cramps and I'm on the pill.

Hi Popejoan

If it helps I have endometriosis on my intestines and occasionally I have finding a bit of blood in my stools. I have a mirena coil now that has more or less stopped my periods so I don't have much trouble now.

I am not medically qualified but I do know some women can have endometriosis with little or no symptoms.

If it also helps before I had this I had blood in my stools and the dr said it was most likely due to constipation.

Also some foods can cause funny colours/textures in our stools.

Really hope this offers you a little comfort. I know how scary it is finding blood in anything. I bled after sex a few weeks ago and convinced myself I had cervical cancer :(

Hope you feel better soon xx

popejoan
22-12-14, 16:50
Thank you for your reply. I'm feeling very very anxious, I called 111 but they told me to call my Gp. My Gp already referred me for a colonoscopy so I can't do anything about it.

The thing is I'm on the pill for 10 years, isn't it unlikely for endometriosis to become that severe while on the pill? I don't have heavy periods either, they are light and take about 4-5 days with no pain.

When you found blood in your stool was it during your period and was it period like blood clot?

I'm 100% sure it was blood it was exactly like period blood clot only it was in my stool, it wasn't on toilet paper either, I just have a habit of examining my poo everyday now so I basically took it out with toilet tissue (sorry tmi).

It's weird that the doctor said I have cervical emdometriosis but I really have no period pain or anything. I occasionally have brown blood outside of my menstrual cycle.

And you said it can be due to constipation but although I take iron pills and used to be constipated all the time, now for a year I have loose stools and diarrhea like cramps so it can't be due to constipation.

Thank you xx

snowflake293
22-12-14, 16:53
Thank you for your reply. I'm feeling very very anxious, I called 111 but they told me to call my Gp. My Gp already referred me for a colonoscopy so I can't do anything about it.

The thing is I'm on the pill for 10 years, isn't it unlikely for endometriosis to become that severe while on the pill? I don't have heavy periods either, they are light and take about 4-5 days with no pain.

When you found blood in your stool was it during your period and was it period like blood clot?

I'm 100% sure it was blood it was exactly like period blood clot only it was in my stool, it wasn't on toilet paper either, I just have a habit of examining my poo everyday now so I basically took it out with toilet tissue (sorry tmi).

It's weird that the doctor said I have cervical emdometriosis but I really have no period pain or anything. I occasionally have brown blood outside of my menstrual cycle.

And you said it can be due to constipation but although I take iron pills and used to be constipated all the time, now for a year I have loose stools and diarrhea like cramps so it can't be due to constipation.

Thank you xx

When I found blood it was during a period yes.

I am not sure about the pill and it affecting severity of endometriosis.

It is horrible being worried this time of year because it can be harder to get in to see a doctor to put your mind at rest.

Is it the first time you have found blood?

x

popejoan
22-12-14, 17:00
Well, I thought I was having rectal bleeding about 1.5 months ago, it was maroon/purple color and was literally everywhere so I went to A&E, they checked my blood and said I'm not anemic so not bleeding inside and I was sent home. I thought it was the beet juice I drank.

But my GP said it was probably blood because I have low ferritin levels which is a form of iron deficiency, I'm on the pill so it can't be due to heavy periods.

However I wasn't sure until today so yes this is the first time I saw actual blood in my tool and extremely worried now.

I have all the symptoms of bowel cancer, low iron, blood, loose stools, change in bowel habits recently and i'm tired all the time. I can't stop imagining that they will find cancer during my colonoscopy and all my family and fiance will be devastated, I'm getting married in 3 months but now I feel like it won't even happen because I'll be dead or something :(

snowflake293
22-12-14, 17:13
Well, I thought I was having rectal bleeding about 1.5 months ago, it was maroon/purple color and was literally everywhere so I went to A&E, they checked my blood and said I'm not anemic so not bleeding inside and I was sent home. I thought it was the beet juice I drank.

But my GP said it was probably blood because I have low ferritin levels which is a form of iron deficiency, I'm on the pill so it can't be due to heavy periods.

However I wasn't sure until today so yes this is the first time I saw actual blood in my tool and extremely worried now.

I have all the symptoms of bowel cancer, low iron, blood, loose stools, change in bowel habits recently and i'm tired all the time. I can't stop imagining that they will find cancer during my colonoscopy and all my family and fiance will be devastated, I'm getting married in 3 months but now I feel like it won't even happen because I'll be dead or something :(

Massive hugs to you, I can totally relate to how this feels. My boyfriend and I want to get married and have a baby but in the back of my mind I feel like it will never happen as I am convinced something will happen to me :( it is an awful way to feel. I feel I will never be able to have a baby because I wont be able to conceive (worried about endometriosis affecting fertility even though consultant told me it shouldn't be a problem) and also worried I won't be a fit mother cause of back problems and anxiety :(

I know it can be worrying but it is the first time you have found actual blood in your stool and the symptoms you are having can also be due to other conditions. I get terrible loose stools and tiredness when my anxiety is bad.

Do you have someone at home you can talk to about your concerns? Sometimes I find talking to my boyfriend helps me rationalised things. I know everyone is different though.

Hope you feel better soon x

popejoan
22-12-14, 17:23
Thank you so much for caring it means a lot. I know this is the first time I found blood but I thought maybe I was passing invisible blood in my stools and that's the cause of low Ferritin levels and now the blood became visible.

Well, I can talk to my boyfriend but I think he's a little bit bored of my worries, I have a therapist and I'll see her this evening, although she just sits and listens.

I'm sorry you're feeling this way, as long as your doctor says your endometriosis won't cause infertility you should believe them. I know how you feel, I don't want to have a baby cause I can't worry about one more person's health but you want a baby it means there is a massive hope for you, you can change and pass this behind.

For me I think I will have a terrible Christmas and I'll be worried sick until I have a colonoscopy. I'm soooo scared what they might find, trying not to panic because if I panic I won't be able to control my breathing and I will have another panic attack :( x

snowflake293
22-12-14, 17:34
Thank you so much for caring it means a lot. I know this is the first time I found blood but I thought maybe I was passing invisible blood in my stools and that's the cause of low Ferritin levels and now the blood became visible.

Well, I can talk to my boyfriend but I think he's a little bit bored of my worries, I have a therapist and I'll see her this evening, although she just sits and listens.

I'm sorry you're feeling this way, as long as your doctor says your endometriosis won't cause infertility you should believe them. I know how you feel, I don't want to have a baby cause I can't worry about one more person's health but you want a baby it means there is a massive hope for you, you can change and pass this behind.

For me I think I will have a terrible Christmas and I'll be worried sick until I have a colonoscopy. I'm soooo scared what they might find, trying not to panic because if I panic I won't be able to control my breathing and I will have another panic attack :( x

It will definitely help you talking to your therapist this evening, this goes without saying, but make sure you tell her exactly what your worries and fears are at the moment.

I would love to have a baby but I want to make sure I am at least well on the way to tackling my anxiety first. It is really tough though cause I am worried if and when I have a baby I will be paranoid about the health of my child too :(

I know what you mean I feel the same about Christmas. I have so many fears at the moment and if I sit here and think about them non stop and check/poke/pick at things it makes it loads worse and I end up panicking.

I start physically shaking and tapping my legs/hands on my chest when I panic. My boyfriend sees and knows the signs though and helps talk me down from it. It is so scary feeling this way and having all these worries.

I hope you manage to find some peace and comfort from somewhere, remember you aren't on your own and there are lots of us all going through the same worries and we all understand.

xx

popejoan
22-12-14, 17:43
Thank you soo much Snowflake, yes I will tell her everything.

She once told me wanting a baby is wanting a new life for yourself. Yes you're right, once you need to figure out what causes your health anxiety because it doesn't happen just like that. There's underlying causes to our HA's. Mine was finding out I have high risk hpv and at the same time I found out my mum had breast cancer. I'm also in my 3rd year at Uni, getting married in 3 months and will have to apply for a visa to stay in this country next year.

But when the symptoms are so real like this I just can't even think about these causes, I now so convinced I have bowel cancer. My therapist said she can tell how convinced I am because I said "I don't just think I might have cancer, I know I have cancer!".

You have a very understanding boyfriend, my boyfriend tires to emphatize but sometimes it annoys him a lot. I'm not blaming him though, living with someone who has HA can be very overwhelming.

Thank you so much, and you're not alone either, you can message me anytime you feel like you need someone to talk. Take care xx

snowflake293
22-12-14, 21:30
Thank you soo much Snowflake, yes I will tell her everything.

She once told me wanting a baby is wanting a new life for yourself. Yes you're right, once you need to figure out what causes your health anxiety because it doesn't happen just like that. There's underlying causes to our HA's. Mine was finding out I have high risk hpv and at the same time I found out my mum had breast cancer. I'm also in my 3rd year at Uni, getting married in 3 months and will have to apply for a visa to stay in this country next year.

But when the symptoms are so real like this I just can't even think about these causes, I now so convinced I have bowel cancer. My therapist said she can tell how convinced I am because I said "I don't just think I might have cancer, I know I have cancer!".

You have a very understanding boyfriend, my boyfriend tires to emphatize but sometimes it annoys him a lot. I'm not blaming him though, living with someone who has HA can be very overwhelming.

Thank you so much, and you're not alone either, you can message me anytime you feel like you need someone to talk. Take care xx

Thank you Popejoan

My HA was triggered when my Mom was diagnosed with breast cancer 2 and a half years ago, around the same time my uncle died of lung cancer and I found a breast lump myself (benign thanks be to God) but had to have a biopsy the day before I had to have an operation for endometriosis. I have another uncle who has lung cancer now and one of my colleagues has breast cancer so its just been ever ending :weep:

I can totally relate to where you are coming from with being convinced that you have cancer, last week I found a dry, flaky mole that I'd picked at and because of the way the nurse in the walk-in centre was (very thorough but didn't say much) I had basically written myself off and actually BELIEVED it was cancer. The next day my GP saw it and said it was nothing, just a normal mole I had knocked and was a bit dry!

My boyfriend is very good with me but I feel bad for him as I project my fears onto him and worry about him constantly, especially over skin cancers as he is very fair skinned. It can be a tremendous strain on our partners with our HAs I know... it is not easy. He tells me to stop doing this to myself but it isn't as straight forward as that.

It sounds like you have a lot going on in your life, I hope you can find peace and comfort over the next week with it being Christmas. Try and distract yourself as much as you can, try and have fun - I know it is hard sometimes.

Hope you appointment went well and take care xxx

popejoan
22-12-14, 22:53
Hello Snowflake,

Thank you, I made a complete fool of myself and burst into tears in front of my therapist, I said I don't want to die, my family and boyfriend will be devastated. I told I'm thinking about how they will find a cancerous tumor in my bowels, how the doctor will take me and my family into a room and give us the bad news. I really actually believe this will happen, waiting and not knowing is killing me.

The roots of our fears are very similar. Is your mum doing okay? My mum had breast cancer 15 years ago but they only told me recently, all these timw I thought she had her breast removed for precaution, it was a huge shock but she's doing fine now.

I know how doctors/nurses can scare us sometimes. Like when I was ready to believe that what I saw was beet juice my doctor said "I very much doubt that"and he said low ferritin explains the bleeding :/ I'm glad your mole was nothing serious.

Yeah I'm definitely the same, my boyfriend choked on food twice and I thought he had oral cancer and I kind of scared him. Today I haven't told him anything, I want him to have a nice Christmas.

Thank you I will do my best to distract myself until my colonoscooy, fingers crossed. Hope you have a nice Christmas, take care xx

wnsos
22-12-14, 23:14
I know that "I know there's something wrong" feeling so so well, it eats us alive. Could be part of your period though? I remember when my BC thing kicked off, I started examining everything and ended up seeing things I'd never seen before because I'd never paid attention sort of a thing. :hugs: I second the trying to distract yourself. Go crazy on xmas day, you deserve it. HA is a horrible ordeal and it's exhausting to have to battle yourself every day.

popejoan
22-12-14, 23:58
Thanks wnsos I will do my best to have a nice Christmas. No, I'm pretty sure the blood was in my stool, I've seen undigested tomato peels and stuff like that before and thought my black stools were due to cancer but it was a side effect of iron supplements. I've actually never had such a real symptom. I lost my battle to not googling and read that blood clot in stool can be due to cancer. Can't focus on anything else now x

snowflake293
23-12-14, 07:30
Hello Snowflake,

Thank you, I made a complete fool of myself and burst into tears in front of my therapist, I said I don't want to die, my family and boyfriend will be devastated. I told I'm thinking about how they will find a cancerous tumor in my bowels, how the doctor will take me and my family into a room and give us the bad news. I really actually believe this will happen, waiting and not knowing is killing me.

The roots of our fears are very similar. Is your mum doing okay? My mum had breast cancer 15 years ago but they only told me recently, all these timw I thought she had her breast removed for precaution, it was a huge shock but she's doing fine now.

I know how doctors/nurses can scare us sometimes. Like when I was ready to believe that what I saw was beet juice my doctor said "I very much doubt that"and he said low ferritin explains the bleeding :/ I'm glad your mole was nothing serious.

Yeah I'm definitely the same, my boyfriend choked on food twice and I thought he had oral cancer and I kind of scared him. Today I haven't told him anything, I want him to have a nice Christmas.

Thank you I will do my best to distract myself until my colonoscooy, fingers crossed. Hope you have a nice Christmas, take care xx

I totally understand how this feels. I imagine and play those 'breaking the news' scenarios out in my head too :weep: I was SO convinced the mole on the back of my neck was cancerous last week I actually 'prepared' myself and my family for bad news! I feel terrible putting them through all that worry, but at the time I genuinely believed I had skin cancer. I guess I can use this experience now for next time I am worried :) or at least try too! It is so difficult I know.

Don't feel a fool for crying in front of your therapist, it is far better to be honest about your feelings and let all those emotions flow out.

My mom is doing ok now thank God :) she had a rough ride with the treatment and there is always the worry of it coming back for her, but in general she is very positive and has got her strength back now and leads a relatively normal life which is fantastic. She gives me so much strength when I look at her and all she has been through. I do worry though and I regularly check my own breasts as I am very fearful of getting breast cancer too :weep:

In my own experience of the health professionals I have seen recently, very few seem to have a good understanding of anxiety, let alone health anxiety. I don't think mental health problems are receiving the attention the need at the moment. Some doctors in particular have been fantastic with me and understand health anxiety well, but that nurse I saw really frightened me the way she examined my mole then told me to see me Dr! I guess sometimes it's just the luck of the draw.

I hope the time passes calmly and peacefully 'til your colonoscopy and remember I am here and lots of other people understand too. You can always message me if you are feeling worried or afraid.

Try not to worry about your boyfriend choking on his food. I know it is a worry though, I am convinced my boyfriend has a myriad of terrible illnesses at the moment so I do understand how you feel.

I hope you manage to have a good Christmas, try and do things to distract yourself and enjoy yourself a little if you can.

Take care xx

popejoan
23-12-14, 15:16
Hello Snowflake, thank you.

I'm glad your mother is doing well. She must be a fighter, so was my mum, never remember her being in bed or tired even when she was on chemo and radiotherapy. We both have strong mums.

I do have breast cancer fears as well, I'm a little upset my parents hid it from me, if I knew I'd never started taking the pill. I had a large cyst removed 4 years ago and now have 3 cysts in my breasts in total.

I feel worse today, I can't stop crying. I found more blood in my stools and I have a lower back pain and I feel absolutely exhausted. Living those breaking the news scenarios over and over in my head. I'm a total mess today. x

snowflake293
24-12-14, 08:59
Hello Snowflake, thank you.

I'm glad your mother is doing well. She must be a fighter, so was my mum, never remember her being in bed or tired even when she was on chemo and radiotherapy. We both have strong mums.

I do have breast cancer fears as well, I'm a little upset my parents hid it from me, if I knew I'd never started taking the pill. I had a large cyst removed 4 years ago and now have 3 cysts in my breasts in total.

I feel worse today, I can't stop crying. I found more blood in my stools and I have a lower back pain and I feel absolutely exhausted. Living those breaking the news scenarios over and over in my head. I'm a total mess today. x

We do both have strong mums, god bless them both and their strength and wisdom. My mom is such a comfort to me inspires me to be strong.

It is difficult when our families hide things from us, I guess they do it to try and project us. My parents didn't tell me about my mom's lump until right before she was diagnosed and it left me feeling panicky that they don't tell me things now. I understand where they are coming from though.

I am sorry to hear about all your breasts cysts, it is such a worry. I had a benign lipoma and I remember how scared I was waiting for my scan and then biopsy results. I am so thankful that it was nothing to worry about.

I am sorry you are feeling so terrible hun and are so worried. I wish there were some words of comfort I could give you, I hate thinking of other people suffering with this awful anxiety and worry.

How are you feeling today? I hope things have improved a little for you.

Look after yourself and keep busy if you can. I am worrying a lot today but keeping busy with Christmas preparations.

Take care xx

popejoan
24-12-14, 09:39
Yes they are very strong, my mum's not a worrier at all, athough after her surgery and chemo she had scary 5 years as the doctor said cancer can come back in 5 years. It never came back, she's healthy apart feom smoking and coughing a lot.

My family don't tell me anything either, it annoys me, just because I have HA it doesn't mean that I'm weak. I would be there for them no matter what.

I'm glad it was benign. Now that I know my mum had breast cancer and she was 38 then, I will have routine controls once a year as I'm 30 now.

I'm at that stage that nothing can convince me that I don't have bowel cancer until my colonoscopy. I'm crying and panicking a lot. I accepted the fact that I have it and I'm so scared. There was more blood yesterday and abdominal pain, rectal pressure. I went to toilet 5-6 times all very loose stools, more blood. It's so unusual for me as being constipated all my life.

I'm glad you can distract yoursef, my boyfriend's holiday starts today and he'll come back from work early. Fortunately I won't be alone until the colonoscopy. Thank you for your message x

snowflake293
24-12-14, 11:36
I am glad to hear your mom is healthy apart from the smoking or coughing. My mom is generally fine although has a bad cold at the moment which I am worrying about :(

Yeah its a tough one when our families don't tell us stuff, I am massively paranoid about something being seriously wrong and me not knowing 'til the last minute. I guess its a deep rooted fear of losing someone we love and being out of control :(

I am 30 too but luckily I don't need routine checks as my Mom was 59 when she was diagnosed. I am incredibly vigilant though and check regularly.

I am so sorry you are convinced of the worst re your bowel symptoms. The crying and the panicking is horrible and no body wants to feel scared like that. Hope your symptoms ease or even better stop so it puts your mind at rest a little hun.

Thank goodness your boyfriend will be home early, mine is off work 'til boxing day now and I am so comforted knowing he is here. Thank goodness you wont be alone til the colonoscopy.

Hope all goes well for you, try and relax and distract yourself if you can hun I know it is hard. xx

popejoan
24-12-14, 15:10
I wish she could give up smoking. I'm in England and all my family lives in Turkey so it's difficult for me, I'm always paranoid that there is more that they're hiding.

It's a good thing that you're checking. I check my breast almost every time I take a shower. I check all my body all the time though :)

Yeah I'm totally obsessed with my bowel movements at the moment, I'm glad that my boyfriend is back from work so I won't be able to examine my poo all the time (sorry tmi), I miss just flush it all and not looking down the toilet.

Now only 6 days left until my colonoscopy, I will also see a gynecologist as I want to be sure if I'm dealing with endometriosis. I'm on the pill for 10 years so it might be masking its symptoms. Haven't seen any blood today and my period is over too and I'm not planning to look down the toilet to find any blood until colonoscopy. Well, fingers crossed, we'll see what's gonna happen.

Thank you so much for your support, it's hard but I'll do my best, take care xx

snowflake293
24-12-14, 18:01
I hate smoking. I respect people's choice to smoke, but it makes me sad.

Checking breasts is important I agree, important to be aware of any changes.

I am so sorry you are so obsessed with your bowel movements are checking you poo so much. Perhaps just try something, try delaying looking down the bowl for a minute or too? Even if it means not flushing for a while (sorry if that's gross, its just an idea) sometimes delaying things before you check can help us to stop if that makes sense? That was a technique I had during CBT for an eating disorder and it helped me overcome bulimia.

Fingers crossed for you colonoscopy, I know you will be worrying over the next 6 days but hopefully Christmas will be a distraction (on a lighter note there is some really good telly on over the few days, so at least there is that).

If you need to PM me at any point if you are feeling worried please do so, might not be able to respond much tomorrow as family here but will be about the day after.

Look after yourself hun and stay strong. We will all beat this horrible health anxiety!

Snowflake xx

paul78
26-12-14, 18:46
Hi popejoan my best wishes are with u and please tell us how the scan will go.

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Hi popejoan my best wishes are with u and please keep sending updates after scan.

popejoan
27-12-14, 03:00
Thank you so much Paul78, my colonoscopy is on Tuesday amd I will post the result here. I'm extremely worried.

popejoan
30-12-14, 10:58
Hello, just wanted to send an update as I had my colonoscopy this morning. They didn't find anything wrong. They said the bleeding might be due to endometriosis. Was such a huge relief. Thanks everyone who helped me calm down here. I just hope this is the last worry.

paul78
30-12-14, 17:09
That is good news popejoan and i am wishing u will be fine soon .

popejoan
30-12-14, 17:22
Thank you :)

almamatters
30-12-14, 17:30
Really good news PopeJoan, I hope you are feeling better now. :) x

popejoan
30-12-14, 20:35
Thanks Almamatters, I'm feeling much better apart from a little discomfort. The best part is that they gave mr the pictures and a report of my colonoscopy so whenever I doubt if they missed something I can just look at them. Hope you're okay too x

snowflake293
30-12-14, 21:10
Fantastic news, really pleased to hear this as I know how worried you were. Thank goodness you got the news you wanted to hear. Hope you are feeling better now and this helps settle your HA xx

popejoan
31-12-14, 00:09
Thanks so much Snowflake, hope you're doing better too x

Cags48
05-01-15, 12:59
I have low ferritin I'm on iron tablets I've never had blood but I do have flat stools that worry me , I am also phobic of hospitals so it's really difficult . I empathise with you