View Full Version : Juice Fasting
Gotagetthroughthis
01-01-15, 17:35
Hi all,
I am currently on a juice fast, if you don't know what that is it is a sort of diet where you consume only fruit/vegetable juices with no solid foods or fibre at all. I do this by using a juicer.
There are many reasons people may do this, one being to lose weight but also for various other reasons like to detoxify the body and give the body and chance to rest and heal itself.
I am doing the fast for the detox purposes, in the hope it may help with various physical symptoms I get aswell as hopefully giving me a sense of well being and possibly improving my anxiety/depression. I have also had a suspicion I may have an intolerance to wheat for a while so this is worth a try to see how I feel without any wheat/gluten. I have also mistreated my body with drugs, alcohol along with the crap food in the past, not to mention all the chemicals from the anti depressants over the years. Hopefully the fast can also help rid my system of these toxic substances that may have been stored in my cells from years of use.
Some people have had some amazing results from these juice fasts and its something I think is worth a try.
Im currently on day 2 of my Juice fast. This living on just juice business is actually pretty expensive!
Anyway, im not overly hungry unless I see or smell food but when I do then I feel ravenous. Im certainly not hungry for the juices and dislike drinking them already. Im trying to stick to mainly vegetables juices rather than fruit so I don't overload on sugar, so the juices aren't very sweet and tasty.
I hear it usually gets worse before it gets better on these fasts as my body detoxes I may experience "healing crisis" and Detox symptoms so just hoping the next few days aren't to rough.
I am aiming for a 2 week long fast to begin with and then on to one month depending on how im feeling and how much weight I have lose...the point being I don't want to lose weight, this is more for the health benefits as I am not overweight.
Without wanting to be too direct that cannot be good for you. Surely you need carbohydrate and protein to avoid becoming completely knackered? Also doesn't fruit when in juice form have phenomenal amounts of natural sugar in?
For me the best diets revolve solely around do more and eat less.
Gotagetthroughthis
01-01-15, 19:18
Without wanting to be too direct that cannot be good for you. Surely you need carbohydrate and protein to avoid becoming completely knackered? Also doesn't fruit when in juice form have phenomenal amounts of natural sugar in?
For me the best diets revolve solely around do more and eat less.
No that's fine, that is usually the first reaction to it as it sounds a bit extreme. If you believe some of the research its actually said to be incredibly good for you.
You are right in a sense that I may be knackered, you will be tired at points yes but your body is capable of using up its own fat and some muscle tissue for energy, aswell as breaking down toxins, damaged tissues etc. Have a look into it if your interested.
On the parts where you said "doesn't fruit when in juice form have phenomenal amounts of natural sugar in?" and "For me the best diets revolve solely around do more and eat less" I think you missed the point a bit, I said I would mainly be juicing vegetables and I would be using a juicer and also the fast or "diet" is more for the detox and fasting health benefits rather than to lose weight, so the doing more and eating less thing isn't relevant, its not that sort of "diet" if you get what I mean.
I've never done this, but I know people who have. I don't think they made it very long - most of them were trying to detox as well as lose weight, but they just didn't have any energy when living on juice alone so they couldn't exercise or even focus on schoolwork.
I don't think it's bad necessarily and you seem to have done your homework, but I wouldn't do it for a whole month. That's a long time to be without vital things your body needs, like protein and fiber. Protein is a good source of energy and without it, your body kind of goes out of whack. But, you likely know that.
I think detox in general is good, have you considered more clean eating once you go off the juice diet? This would be eating as many fresh foods as possible. The more local, the better. It's a good way to know exactly what you're putting in your body.
No that's fine, that is usually the first reaction to it as it sounds a bit extreme. If you believe some of the research its actually said to be incredibly good for you.
You are right in a sense that I may be knackered, you will be tired at points yes but your body is capable of using up its own fat and some muscle tissue for energy, aswell as breaking down toxins, damaged tissues etc. Have a look into it if your interested.
On the parts where you said "doesn't fruit when in juice form have phenomenal amounts of natural sugar in?" and "For me the best diets revolve solely around do more and eat less" I think you missed the point a bit, I said I would mainly be juicing vegetables and I would be using a juicer and also the fast or "diet" is more for the detox and fasting health benefits rather than to lose weight, so the doing more and eating less thing isn't relevant, its not that sort of "diet" if you get what I mean.
If the aim is to lose weight then you are to all intents and purposes starving yourself by reducing calories dramatically. In turn your body responds and there is also a body of research which says that your metabolism will respond by slowing (natural starvation response) and that in turn when you start to eat normally again weight will actually go on more quickly. (My wife is a sports medicine graduate).
Additionally, fruit juice isn't that good for you as it includes excessive amounts of natural sugar which is why according to Public Health England it can only constitute one of your five a day.
Ultimately do what you want :) but a colleague of mine did this recently, it made her low in mood, lethargic and she felt awful after a week. When she ate again she felt even worse and it took a full ten days to get back to how she felt before. I am sure there are some good examples though. it also has the potential to create mood swings as your body will either be getting lots of or no sugar.
Seems a rather odd thing for someone who suffers from anxiety to do tbh. Would be interested to hear how it goes though. Have you looked at the 5:2 approach? Seems a bit more sustainable to me.
I live on vege smoothies a lot of the time. You'll need a lot to sustain yourself though. Drop some fats in there like advocado or coconut oil.
You only need a small amount of carbs per day to fuel your brain. Not the heaps we all eat these days.
Broccoli is a good protein source but I'm sure you can sneak a piece of fish into your diet each week. It's not good to be too strict in my opinion.
Part of me wants to go the same way myself this year. My green smoothies (no fruit) are a safe food for me.
Doubts over excessive carbs and sugars.
Doubts over just how much protein we actually need in our diets.
I really prefer not to eat too many carbs. They reckon a lot of ailments can be caused by inflammation in the body and certain carbs can be a big culprit.
Who knows, so much conflicting wisdom about.
Fats used to be the enemy but from what I read/hear that's very much in doubt now and carbs are under more scrutiny.
So confusing these days. I don't blame you for leaning towards your smoothies. (Not fruit though. Packed with sugar and probably gonna bloat your stomach)
Let us know if it helps improve your mental health
Gotagetthroughthis
01-01-15, 22:07
If the aim is to lose weight then you are to all intents and purposes starving yourself by reducing calories dramatically. In turn your body responds and there is also a body of research which says that your metabolism will respond by slowing (natural starvation response) and that in turn when you start to eat normally again weight will actually go on more quickly. (My wife is a sports medicine graduate).
Additionally, fruit juice isn't that good for you as it includes excessive amounts of natural sugar which is why according to Public Health England it can only constitute one of your five a day.
Ultimately do what you want :) but a colleague of mine did this recently, it made her low in mood, lethargic and she felt awful after a week. When she ate again she felt even worse and it took a full ten days to get back to how she felt before. I am sure there are some good examples though. it also has the potential to create mood swings as your body will either be getting lots of or no sugar.
Seems a rather odd thing for someone who suffers from anxiety to do tbh. Would be interested to hear how it goes though. Have you looked at the 5:2 approach? Seems a bit more sustainable to me.
Again, You really don't read before posting do you. I AM NOT DOING THE FAST TO LOSE WEIGHT (so the aim is not to lose weight) and I am juicing mainly vegetables rather than fruit.
You're right I missed the bit about not losing weight - but that will be an inevitable by product whether desired or not. So whether it is your goal or not, it is an intended outcome of fasting as your calorie intake will be significantly lower than your expenditure. As will screwing with metabolism, as will the fact that you don't gain the benefits the body needs from things not in vegetables.
As I say though, each to their own and I hope it goes well. :). But as I say does seem an odd approach for someone posting on an anxiety forum. I am sure for some people it is fine though - just the folk I have known try it have been irritable, low in mood and lethargic.
Would love to read any evidence of reversing toxic damage done to cells or tissue .
The only thing I would add is that HA relies heavily on the need to control and I am not sure whether following a controlled regime is a wise move.
Gotagetthroughthis
01-01-15, 22:44
You're right I missed the bit about not losing weight - but that will be an inevitable by product whether desired or not. So whether it is your goal or not, it is an intended outcome of fasting as your calorie intake will be significantly lower than your expenditure. As will screwing with metabolism, as will the fact that you don't gain the benefits the body needs from things not in vegetables.
As I say though, each to their own and I hope it goes well. :). But as I say does seem an odd approach for someone posting on an anxiety forum. I am sure for some people it is fine though - just the folk I have known try it have been irritable, low in mood and lethargic.
Yep your right it is an odd approach but I have tried all of the usual approaches over the past few years so this is a bit of an experiment to see if it helps. If the typical well known options don't work then I feel I need to go looking elsewhere and trying different things.
The low mood, irritable, lethargy issues may well be part of the detox process and the "healing crisis" which needs to be pushed through to see the benefits, rather than stopping the fast and eating. Or that could be complete rubbish, this is just what ive read. It often gets worse before it gets better.
Thanks for your advice.
Forgot to mention you can get plenty of highly nutritious things from the likes of Holland and barret to add to your smoothies to make them more nutritious and sustaining.
I use Ground chia seeds and "milled flaxseed, almonds,Brazil nuts & co-enzyme Q10"
The nutrients these contain are ridiculous. They blend in without noticing.
Take a walk around Holland and Barret. You'll probably find plenty of things that fit right into the smoothie contents you want.
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Would love to read any evidence of reversing toxic damage done to cells or tissue .
The only thing I would add is that HA relies heavily on the need to control and I am not sure whether following a controlled regime is a wise move.
Google "reduce inflammation diet damage cell"
Reducing inflammation is a big talking point nowadays. One of the reasons fish oil/epa is so widely used is because its been found to reduce inflammation.
I'm sorry I don't have links to the specifics, but the juice fast I joined in on when I visited relatives a month ago provides for taking in something like 6-8 one-pint servings of differing juices each day. We had blends with kale, spinach, beets and celery as well as apples, oranges, lemons and limes, and even pineapple. It's hit and miss for preference, but there is no reason to stick to blends that taste vile to you! After the first 2 days, you should feel satisfied and indeed you should expect this, since you are easily taking in far, far more nutritious food than you could ever eat in a day.
What we followed is the program suggested by Joe Cross, of "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead" fame. There are lots of free recipes on his site, and my relatives printed off the program for free.
You may like the Mean Green recipes on here:
http://www.rebootwithjoe.com/mean-green-juice/
I am also beginning another reboot for health/detoxification, and personally am experimenting with blends that each contain some kind of greens or other detoxifying vegetable, such as cruciferous and even beets. Yesterday I juiced raspberries and blackberries (berries are low sugar, as is citrus), pomegranate, lemon, apple, cucumber, celery and ginger, along with about 6 cups of washed spinach. It was red, not green, and absolutely delicious. Right now, citrus is in-season, cheap and abundant everywhere, as are pineapples. Today's "green juice" featured a big bunch of kale instead of spinach, and celery, cucumber, carrots, fresh mint leaves, lemon, yellow bell pepper, mango, pear and pineapple, again, delicious. It was green. I plan to try for a blue/purple juice tomorrow with spinach again and beets, blackberries, raspberries, purple grapes and parsley, plus the usual celery, cucumber and ginger. If it's not yummy, I may add pineapple core, blended, or an orange, for more vitamins and taste. One that I know is a winner is (in order of most ingredient) pineapple, apples, oranges, lemons, and limes. After juicing at least 1/2 head of greens/cruciferous, this juice can be added to the blend in an amount that is palatable. I used a small glass, at first, filled to half with the blend, and then added a little kale juice, then more kale, then more kale until I reached a blend that was still tasty. 2 cups of watermelon plus one peeled apple, 1/2 lime and 3 stalks celery, chopped mint if you have some along with 1/3 of a large head of kale is really good, if you want to find a great balance between low sugar and high greens value in a single serving.
I am averaging up to 2 servings per juicing, drinking one and refrigerating the other as I go along, in that way I hope to be able to not have to juice every day. All of my juices will contain greens, so I don't have to drink them in any particular order, only just keep track of which day they were prepared. Good fresh juice in the fridge will retain all its enzymes, micro and macronutrients stored in mason jars filled to the top and capped off for three days, when made using a masticating juicer. I really, honestly, don't think it's much less for the other types.
Other juicing sites advocate snacking on a bit of the veg you are juicing, because this will begin the digestive process before you sit down with your juice!
"To To create better assimilation of nutrients, I always chew some of whatever I am juicing while making the juice. For example, set aside some greens, pieces of carrot, fennel ,etc. and chew well to activate digestion; just a small amount is fine. Taking in juice needs to be done slowly as well, even ‘chewing’ the juice to further activate digestive fire and assimilate fibromyalgia nutrition. Avoid drinking juice too fast
To create better assimilation of nutrients, I always chew some of whatever I am juicing while making the juice. For example, set aside some greens, pieces of carrot, fennel ,etc. and chew well to activate digestion; just a small amount is fine. Taking in juice needs to be done slowly as well, even ‘chewing’ the juice to further activate digestive fire and assimilate fibromyalgia nutrition. Avoid drinking juice too fast create better assimilation of nutrients, I always chew some of whatever I am juicing while making the juice. For example, set aside some greens, pieces of carrot, fennel ,etc. and chew well to activate digestion; just a small amount is fine. Taking in juice needs to be done slowly as well, even ‘chewing’ the juice to further activate digestive fire and assimilate fibromyalgia nutrition. Avoid drinking juice too fastcreate better assimilation of nutrients, I always chew some of whatever I am juicing while m In addition, having a small amount of raw fat (a teaspoon is fine) such as olive oil, coconut oil, flax oil or avocado before OR with your juice will help to better assimilate juice nutrients. "
The above is from this site for fibromyalgia, for which juicing is believed to help. http://www.living-smarter-with-fibromyalgia.com/fibromyalgia_nutrition.html
Good luck! There are quite a few of us detoxing now after the holidays, you're in good company, lol! :whistles: No need to suffer though, or starve! :roflmao:
Please share any combos you like (especially for beets, I find them really strong tasting) ...
Hugs! Marie
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To create better assimilation of nutrients, I always chew some of whatever I am juicing while making the juice. For example, set aside some greens, pieces of carrot, fen
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p.s. We really are talking about a LOT of vegetables here. Vegetables do contain some protein and carbohydrates, maybe not terribly significant when eaten within a typical daily diet along with meats and starches, other beverages, etc. But in the amounts contained in a real, self-limiting juice-based diet (6-8 servings a day) of greens and other vegetables including low-sugar and high-water content veg and fruit, the protein is significant. Joe and others have safely done this for up to 2 months, and also done a short "reboot" when eating has become unhealthy (sugar addiction returns). For those people, admittedly obese and in poor health, it has taken that long for skin conditions to clear, health problems to lessen, and control to be established once again. By all means, check with your physician if you have health concerns and I wouldn't advise anyone to do this if they are currently dealing with an eating disorder. :hugs:Hey, if this doesn't work out, there are other good cleansing programs, no game, no foul!
MyNameIsTerry
02-01-15, 07:56
If the aim is to lose weight then you are to all intents and purposes starving yourself by reducing calories dramatically. In turn your body responds and there is also a body of research which says that your metabolism will respond by slowing (natural starvation response) and that in turn when you start to eat normally again weight will actually go on more quickly. (My wife is a sports medicine graduate).
Additionally, fruit juice isn't that good for you as it includes excessive amounts of natural sugar which is why according to Public Health England it can only constitute one of your five a day.
Ultimately do what you want :) but a colleague of mine did this recently, it made her low in mood, lethargic and she felt awful after a week. When she ate again she felt even worse and it took a full ten days to get back to how she felt before. I am sure there are some good examples though. it also has the potential to create mood swings as your body will either be getting lots of or no sugar.
Seems a rather odd thing for someone who suffers from anxiety to do tbh. Would be interested to hear how it goes though. Have you looked at the 5:2 approach? Seems a bit more sustainable to me.
I don't follow a juicing diet but I decided I wanted to boost my 5 a day (aren't we the lowest in Europe anyway? So, PHE are likely a weaker source than their equivalents)
so did some reading about the juicing issue along with PHE recommendations to find that whilst they treat juicing as only contributing 1 a day no matter the volume consumed, its based on the juicing process removing other essential nutrients due to removing the pulp.
More modern juicers no longer remove the pulp. Tesco introduced a "3 a day" which was challenged and I recall the ASA concluded that the process used to produce the drink differed to that which PHE state reduces it to a maximum of 1 a day thus ruled in favour of Tesco. It's still on the shelves.
Also, there are now juicers that break down the phyto nutrients which we wouldn't normally be able to digest. These types of juicers carry additional health warnings due to the release of cyanide from certain pits.
The sugar issue is not quite what is commonly known because PHE are advising people to be wary of commercially produced juices which can often have high amounts of added sugar. Juicing using natural ingredients just means you get the fruit sugar, fructose, which breaks down in the liver hence it taking longer to be assimilated.
Detoxing by its nature can bring low moods. However, so can sugar elimination programmes (which people on this website promote top reduce anxiety) and anti candida regimes. The issue comes from the additional demand on the liver which causes a pile up of toxins in the case of detoxing and anti candida but there are things you can take to boost the liver to reduce the level of the impact. The OP could check that out if symptoms start appearing.
The same can occur with deep tissue massage and eggshells exercises involving stretching such as yoga and Tai Chi. But again, many people promote those for anxiety.
So, I guess it's going to be a matter of self monitoring. If your anxiety or depression is severe, I think you have to stabilise yourself first but then you can start to experiment.
The issue with piling weight back on is more to do with lack of self discipline of yo yo dieters isn't it? The metabolism, I thought, was an issue in dieting given his it adjusts but is that over a longer time frame?
In my case, its convenient to juice but I only do it once a day to add some healthier fruit & veg on top of my food. I did feel it the first couple of days because the phyto nutrients are unexpected at first but soon passes.
Its also worth considering that we don't digest of a lot what we eat due to changes based on diets high in processed foods so some digestive aid can help.
Its always a minefield with anything like this because there is new evidence emerging in the health & sports world that changes things constantly due to all the university studies and the medical world is not the best for areas as they are slow to respond which doesn't help. I think you research what you can to make an educated decision really and try things out.
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Google "reduce inflammation diet damage cell"
Reducing inflammation is a big talking point nowadays. One of the reasons fish oil/epa is so widely used is because its been found to reduce inflammation.
Its an interesting issue. My moods have stabilised by taking high strength Omega 3's which the SNRI had no impact on.
Its also interesting to see reviews of products taken for anti inflammatory use which also report feeling better moods or sleeping better.
Then there is the great magnesium debate.
What have you found out about anti inflammatories Oosh?
"The only thing I would add is that HA relies heavily on the need to control and I am not sure whether following a controlled regime is a wise move"
Personally, I tread carefully when I see anything obsessive or highly controlled but each to their own:).
Thanks for all that info sadnomore. My green smoothies aren't as varied as I'd like so that's all very useful for me.
Mnit- Ive been hearing about inflammation for a while now. I've heard neuroscientists break it down and it can get very technical so I'm afraid I've not got any super deep info to share more than I already have. I just take from what I've heard that they're discovering inflammatory processes in the body being behind lots of negative conditions leading to advice to reduce inflammatories and adopt anti-inflammatories.
A more technical piece of info about fish oil/inflammation/anxiety can be found in the link below.
"Anxiety and depression are associated with pro-inflammatory cytokines."
"Omega 3 fatty acids become anti-inflammatory cytokines."
http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201111/fish-oil-and-anxiety
Hiya, Oosh,
I'm glad to have been able to contribute to the discussion! I think we would all agree that the ideal is for us to stick to a healthy, high-nutrient based diet that includes healthy fats and follows other anti-inflammatory diet principles. (I.E. dark green and brightly coloured vegetables filling half your plate, low sugar berries and whole fruits, more fish, and use of cooking methods like stir-fry, poaching, baking, broiling, the aforementioned omega 3 source fats, etc.)
If you subscribe to the notion of dietary detoxification and/or boosting greens intake, juicing may become a practice you like to include as well. The explosion of juicers on the market and support websites, books, etc. indicates that more and more people are interested in this way of life!
I am the first to admit that the ideal is not always feasible in life but I want to stay close to it as much as possible, including a fresh green juice daily. First, it's "out with the bad, in with the good", ha ha ha ha! I'm really excited to wave goodbye to the sugar cravings that haunt me, won't be long! :yahoo:
Thanks sadnomore. Do you cook your kale/spinach before using in a smoothie due to Oxalic acid ? I'm always in two minds. I've gone through periods where u have briefly boiled it then other times I can't be bothered.
I've just gone out and spent a fortune on lots of different ingredients for smoothies. It's bound to go off before I can use most of it :lac:
nefelibata
03-01-15, 18:50
Hi all,
I am currently on a juice fast, if you don't know what that is it is a sort of diet where you consume only fruit/vegetable juices with no solid foods or fibre at all. I do this by using a juicer.
There are many reasons people may do this, one being to lose weight but also for various other reasons like to detoxify the body and give the body and chance to rest and heal itself.
I am doing the fast for the detox purposes, in the hope it may help with various physical symptoms I get aswell as hopefully giving me a sense of well being and possibly improving my anxiety/depression. I have also had a suspicion I may have an intolerance to wheat for a while so this is worth a try to see how I feel without any wheat/gluten. I have also mistreated my body with drugs, alcohol along with the crap food in the past, not to mention all the chemicals from the anti depressants over the years. Hopefully the fast can also help rid my system of these toxic substances that may have been stored in my cells from years of use.
Some people have had some amazing results from these juice fasts and its something I think is worth a try.
Im currently on day 2 of my Juice fast. This living on just juice business is actually pretty expensive!
Anyway, im not overly hungry unless I see or smell food but when I do then I feel ravenous. Im certainly not hungry for the juices and dislike drinking them already. Im trying to stick to mainly vegetables juices rather than fruit so I don't overload on sugar, so the juices aren't very sweet and tasty.
I hear it usually gets worse before it gets better on these fasts as my body detoxes I may experience "healing crisis" and Detox symptoms so just hoping the next few days aren't to rough.
I am aiming for a 2 week long fast to begin with and then on to one month depending on how im feeling and how much weight I have lose...the point being I don't want to lose weight, this is more for the health benefits as I am not overweight.
Good for you!!!:yesyes:
There are lots of health benefits from juicing. A healing crisis can occur as modern eating often comprises of a lot of processed food low in nutrients. I am juicing at the moment as part of a mostly vegan diet. I do have oily fish occasionally. Like another poster mentioned I also put chia seeds in my veggie juices for an extra boost (I get mine from Tesco).
I will be doing a juice only fast in the spring & summer as I find it easier to do it then rather than in the winter. But that is just personal preference.
I wish you all of the best with your juicing and will follow your progress with interest. :bighug1:
I have a friend who does this fairly regularly and she is convinced that it has made a massive improvement to her ME which she was diagnosed with about two years ago. She juices every day but every so often she will go on a short two or three day juice fast. I also know a couple of other people who have used this for weight loss purposes.
MyNameIsTerry
04-01-15, 07:56
I have a friend who does this fairly regularly and she is convinced that it has made a massive improvement to her ME which she was diagnosed with about two years ago. She juices every day but every so often she will go on a short two or three day juice fast. I also know a couple of other people who have used this for weight loss purposes.
Its good to hear how it is helping your friend cattia.
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Thanks sadnomore. Do you cook your kale/spinach before using in a smoothie due to Oxalic acid ? I'm always in two minds. I've gone through periods where u have briefly boiled it then other times I can't be bothered.
I've just gone out and spent a fortune on lots of different ingredients for smoothies. It's bound to go off before I can use most of it :lac:
I've never boiled it but I have read it makes it more tolerable for people with certain physical health conditions. Can't remember which without Googling.
Thanks for the link by the way. They are testing with much higher values than you normally see in Omega 3 products but I noticed the FDA are fine with much higher anyway.
A friend of mine has just lost 21 lbs by juicing for 2 days then eating normally for 5. I.e 5:2 diet. He says he feels he has far more energy. He found the juicing recipes in the Daily Mail (:blush:). the days when he is not fasting he just eats normally.
Maybe this less extreme method would be better ......:shrug:
Interesting that this popped up (http://www.buzzfeed.com/carolynkylstra/detoxing-juice-cleanse?bffb&utm_term=4ldqpgp#4ldqpgp) on my FB feed today...
I think as a "supplement" to a nutritious balanced diet it's beneficial but otherwise? If you want to be cleaned out totally, a prep for a colonoscopy will do the same thing in less than 24 hours! I think pieces of McDonald's burgers from my childhood were flushed out of me! ;)
Positive thoughts
Lol, Fishmanpa! Well, those colonoscopy preps certainly do remove a lot of materials that will have been overstaying their intended time in our "lower digestive system", ha ha! I don't know for sure, but I think that is the premise behind "colonic cleansing", another very poopular, uh, popular practice of late! :winks:
To me, the real advantage of juicing/juice fasting is that it makes it possible to boost up our phytonutrients/vitamins/enzymes numbers in a way we can't possibly do just by "including" vegetables and fruit in our diet. We just can't eat that much! This is great for folks who are ill or are recovering from illness or poor eating habits and obesity, and need the extra nutrition.
"Did you know that 95% of the vitamins and enzymes our bodies need are found in the juice of raw fruits and vegetables? We would need to eat 2 lbs of carrots, 10-12 apples, or 8 lbs of spinach to get the same amount of nutrients you receive in one 16 oz juice. When you drink juice, highly concentrated vitamins, minerals and enzymes rapidly enter the bloodstream absorbing all of the nutritional benefits of the fruits and vegetables and giving your digestive organs a much-needed rest." http://www.livinggreensjuice.com/Benefits-of-Juicing-s/1824.htm
This, in a nutshell, is why you might want to try an occasional juice-only dietary plan. What you are missing of course, is fiber, which can be helped by 'snacking on the vegetables you are using in the juice' as you go along. The gist of this snacking is also to release digestive enzymes in your body to help with digestion of the juice, and it can satisfy the desire to crunch on something at the same time. The vast quantity of vegetables taken in by drinking a good number of servings of fresh juice per day (6 -8) is said to provide for our body's protein needs during this time, but, if you want to be sure, like me, then you can round out any missing amino acids by taking l-lysine (500 mg or less) and eating 4 brazil nuts per day. (Check vegan books or sites). Let's face it, there are plenty of vegans managing just fine on veggie-based protein, and we are not talking years, here. The other caveat is about blood sugar. If we use too much fruit in our blends then we can raise blood sugar beyond healthy levels, and this is really important for diabetics to note. Low-sugar, brightly coloured fruits and berries are beneficial though, and help to offset the bitterness that would otherwise make some greens unpalatable for those new to trying them. By sticking with vegetable/greens juice with small amounts of fruit, and avoiding processed foods for a short while, our tastebuds do adjust. We do come to appreciate the taste of the fresh vegetables and greens, and reduce the fruit we use! I have a terrible sweet tooth and was skeptical of this, but I've been there, lol!
Oosh! Terry! I'm so glad you mention the issue of oxalic acids (which are high in most greens, and in the nightshade vegetables and cruciferous). I have arthritis, and was intrigued when watching the movie "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead", by the story of a young patient with crippling juvenlie arthritis whose recovery since juicing has been remarkable. It was his mother saying she began with more watermelon juice than greens, then slowly reduced the watermelon until he was happy with the taste of the greens that encouraged me to try it that way. I've used watermelon a couple of times, but I find that a whole cucumber also adds a good volume of water and a fresh taste to greens like kale and spinach. Finally, I cannot explain it, but after doing it twice now for several days, I can report that I am able to consume juice with plenty of kale, spinach, carrots and even tomatoes (all of which are normally "high" in oxalic acid) without any added arthritic pain like before. In fact, I have found an improvement to pain in the places where I know arthritis exists, such as my a/c joint! Maybe because of some process between stomach acids and reaching the bloodstream that doesn't allow for oxalic acid to be shuttled off to the joints? I don't know, but as long as it continues to work this way, I'm going to get my "green goodness" by juicing them! :D
I do not get behind "miracle cures" or internet nonsense, but this is something that it can't hurt to try in moderation (meaning, occasionally) and I would encourage watching the films by Joe Cross at least. Very inspirational, and not tied to any sort of obligatory sales or promotion. Very cool.
Gottagetthroughthis, I found the secret for me was to maximize servings and munch on some of the ingredients (not too much, lol!) How have you been finding it? No matter how long you are able to keep it up, it is doing your body good! As a general kind of practice, I really like the idea of incorporating these high-nutrients drinks into daily use. They recommend drinking them on an empty stomach if possible, 20 minutes before a meal. Good luck! I admire your resolve to get through the detoxing symptoms, not nice but part of the good that's coming of the challenge! :hugs:
nefelibata
04-01-15, 21:15
Great post SADnomore! Thank you :yesyes:
I have been looking into Gerson Therapy for the past year, which has been used to cure cancer through nutrition, juicing & enemas since the 1920's. May be of interest to people on this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quuvi6Gvvmc
It is very strict, but makes sense to me as a overall programme for good health. You can follow the nutrition guides to the extent that you are able to sustain good health & wellbeing.
Happy juicing & good health to all! :)
Gotagetthroughthis
05-01-15, 00:50
Wow great to see everyone talking about this, thanks for any responses that were directed at me.
I am currently at the end of day six of the juice fast. To be honest I don't really feel any different, if there is any difference its hardly noticeable. I haven't had any "detox symptoms" or "healing crisis" I haven't felt overly tired or energetic, I have just felt the same as when I eat food, except slightly more hungry and im not even that hungry unless I see or smell food.
Its a bit disappointing that im not feeling any different to be honest but I will keep going and see how I feel.
Yep, keep going, and good luck, gotagetthoughthis! Have you cut out caffeine too? The first time I did this I felt really nauseated, but this time I am not having too much physical symptoms, aside from some constipation. May-be ... you are not too toxic, isn't that a nice thought? :) In any case, the rest for your liver is a good thing, AND you will be changing your tastebuds for the better. It is incredible how good most vegetables taste once your palate is able to taste them without the blur of salt and sugar. Especially processed sugar!
Nefilibata, hi and welcome to the thread! Thanks for sharing! :hugs:
nefelibata
05-01-15, 19:08
Definitely persevere, Gotta, you are doing amazing! :yesyes: You have the support of a lot of people who are willing you on. I am sure you will see benefits :)
Thank you for your welcome, SADnomore. Good to be here!:hugs:
Gerson Therapy for the past year, which has been used to cure cancer through nutrition, juicing & enemas since the 1920's.
While there is nutritional common sense in the Gerson Therapy, there is no scientific data to back this up. Say what you will but it's total rubbish as a cure for cancer. This is coming from a survivor.
Positive thoughts
nefelibata
05-01-15, 19:35
Hi Fishmanpa.
I am sorry to hear that you have suffered from cancer. I have nursed a few of my relatives through this horrible illness and witnessed how distressing it was for them.
I beg to differ on the point you made. I agree that not enough research has been done into nutritional therapy in relation to many health issues. Primarily because it is not funded. Pharmaceutical companies are invested in treating most health issues with drugs as they profit from it.
Many imbalances in health are directly caused by poor nutrition and lifestlye. If this is the case, I believe that many can be prevented and treated / alleviated with nutritional therapy.
Scientific data is not always fact and can be swayed by the motives of those who collect and disseminate this data.
Until recent years depression was scientifically explained to be a chemical imbalance in the brain. There has never been any evidence to support this. The cause cannot be isolated or scientifically explained. There is no evidence. This theory is still being peddled out as an excuse for the over prescription of SSRIs by pharmaceutical companies who license antidepressants.
I respect your opinion, Fishmanpa but don't share it.
Nefelibata, (may I call you Catherine? :)),
Disease is so complex, wouldn't you agree? Some disease IS directly related to diet; for example Type 2 Diabetes, as part of the overall Metabolic Syndrome which is linked to heart disease and more. But, not all heart disease is related to developing Metabolic Syndrome, right? In the same way, not all cancers stem from poor diet and unfortunately, I haven't heard of any that can be cured by diet alone. I do know plenty of survivors who have changed their diets for the good, and with surgery and adjunct therapies, weight loss and exercise, have managed to overcome cancer, that's for sure!
Because of her many books on nutrition, many people don't realize it, but even Suzanne Somers had surgery and radiation treatment, and while she chose not to undergo chemotherapy and instead moved on to overhaul her diet and exercise, she didn't rely on nutrition alone to get well.
I get it. Nutrition is huge. People on this board will tell you, I'm always on about something re: food, lol! I eliminated the reliance I had on prescription stomach acid blockers by the use of organic apple cider vinegar. Ulcers have healed, and my bones have even strengthened. Am I glad to be off those pills and be having little fizzy drinks of ACV and baking soda instead? You bet I am! I always try to be open-minded about health issues and always take a natural, nutrition-based approach first. But there are times when pharmaceuticals are necessary, and I have accepted that. For me. I wouldn't interfere with anyone else's decisions or beliefs regarding medicine either. Like you, I can respect the others' opinion without necessarily having to share it.
I respect Fishmanpa's opinion too. Now for me, his opinion on cancer treatment would take on even greater significance if I was diagnosed with cancer; I might look very closely at what he has done and continues to do, because he is a survivor. What I would want to be! I may look more closely at Suzanne Somers' decision to forego chemotherapy and why, and study her lifestyle since, for the same reason. I have a colleague who has survived ovarian cancer and although she had surgery and chemo, credits back-to-basics organic foods for keeping her cancer-free. I believe there is a lot of wisdom in all of her choices. 10 years of healthy survival tell me so!
I have suffered from depression all of my life, sometimes moreso than others (never being able to really sift out why so). I saw a naturopath who is also a medical doctor, for the better part of two years, because I wanted health in all aspects, as naturally as possible. I took IV vitamin therapy, underwent a 30-day elimination diet (and was able to leave the "IBD" pharmaceuticals behind ever since!) I took herbs, natural supplements, and completely changed my pantry and refrigerator. I fought off sugar cravings by healthy snacking, lots of water and taking walks. But then winter would come and I'd become depressed again. Really depressed. I took a saliva test that was shipped to a U.S. lab, did complete blood workups and 24-hour urine specimens. The doctor suggested bioidentical hormone therapy, and I applied low-dose creams daily, and took capsules. Boosted my vitamin D. A lot. And C, and was covered off for every nutritional deficiency she was able to test for, even if it was borderline or still in normal range. In summer, I swam, I walked more, sought out the sun. But come the second winter, I fell into depression again. The doctor adjusted the hormones. Adjusted the supplements. I took IV vitamin therapy again. One day, I realized that I was unaccountably anxious, on top of being depressed. Anxious, hopeless, and achingly depressed. I was a jittery, teary mess, and couldn't even drag myself out into the sunshine anymore. There were no other safe adjustments to make to my supplements or my hormones, the doctor said. I had to realize that there was nothing left that we hadn't already done. It looked pretty hopeless. I was desperate. That's when I went to my old family doctor, and ... was diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder. Was started on venlaxafine (an SNRI indicated for my condition), with a gradual increase heading into winter this season. I have changed nothing else, and I am well. I hear a lot about there being no proof that depression is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. There is no evidence, I hear you. I am, however, unable to refute the fact that the drug has made the difference for my mental wellbeing, finally. I continue to do my best to practice healthy nutrition and lifestyle as well. I accept that the "theory" of chemical imbalance and its successful treatment through drugs cannot at this time be proved. However, I tried everything else, and this is what has helped me. If in fact, there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance, then why has a chemical adjustment made me well?
Disease is a tricky thing. It winds around and through nutrition and lack therof, and confounds us with genetics and environmental factors beyond our control. Western medicine does not have all the answers, and sometimes its answers are wrong. But neither are naturopathy and nutrition the complete answer where many diseases are concerned. More's the pity, I say ...
Thanks again for your input, Catherine, and I mean that! Big hugs, and welcome again! But when it comes to cancer, with all due respect to you, I will trust Fishmanpa's opinion. And when it comes to depression, I will trust my GP.
Love, Marie xx
MyNameIsTerry
05-01-15, 23:38
Gerson Therapy is clearly something that needs further study and it seems to have issues around side effects as well as poorly managed trials or lack of numbers.
But...
If you have a read about a newer branch of genetic science, epigenetics, which is concerned with changes to how genes work without making changes to DNA, there already is research showing how there are various forms on cancer related to this and there is already a licenced drug with more in development. They believe that through these processes, they can compliment or replace radiation and chemotherapy and the epigenetic route which can mean reversal which conventional treatments do not do.
Its an exciting area. I read a recent article about anxiety & depression in context of epigenetics and methylation, which is influenced by traditional factors including exercise & diet. Vitamin B12 was also discussed within this.
So, I don't think we should dismiss other routes. Current anti depressants were never even created to treat anxiety, but the alternative was older anti anxiety meds that carried horrible side effects.
Hi Fishmanpa.
I am sorry to hear that you have suffered from cancer. I have nursed a few of my relatives through this horrible illness and witnessed how distressing it was for them.
I beg to differ on the point you made. I agree that not enough research has been done into nutritional therapy in relation to many health issues. Primarily because it is not funded. Pharmaceutical companies are invested in treating most health issues with drugs as they profit from it.
Many imbalances in health are directly caused by poor nutrition and lifestlye. If this is the case, I believe that many can be prevented and treated / alleviated with nutritional therapy.
Scientific data is not always fact and can be swayed by the motives of those who collect and disseminate this data.
I respect your opinion, Fishmanpa but don't share it.
I won't get into a debate about it as this subject and other "alternative" cancer treatments were discussed ad nauseum on the cancer forums. Unfortunately, those in favor of these methods are no longer with us to debate. We'll agree to disagree then.
Positive thoughts
ADDED: I do agree that proper nutrition is key to a healthy life both physically and mentally. Medical science does not deny this and in fact supports it. The government is all over this (food pyramid etc.). I'm totally on board with it. I do a smoothie every morning for breakfast. Fruits, veggies, added supplements etc. I eat healthy above and beyond that as well and I believe it's part of the reason my recovery has been good. That being said, cancer is an uncontrolled growth of abnormal cells and doesn't stop once it gets a foot hold. Diet alone won't stop it either. Can it help keep it away? I believe it's part of what can but then again some of the healthiest people in the world get cancer.
MyNameIsTerry
06-01-15, 00:33
Epigenetics research? Not the case for all from what I can see but it is mentioned but it seems accepted for some. New area of science though really.
Surely the answer is currently not enough research exists to say for sure?
I guess in the absence of someone both qualified to ask and answer the questions, neither side is considered the full facts?
Back to juicing for health though, eh?
nefelibata
06-01-15, 16:27
Nefelibata, (may I call you Catherine? :)),
Disease is so complex, wouldn't you agree? Some disease IS directly related to diet; for example Type 2 Diabetes, as part of the overall Metabolic Syndrome which is linked to heart disease and more. But, not all heart disease is related to developing Metabolic Syndrome, right? In the same way, not all cancers stem from poor diet and unfortunately, I haven't heard of any that can be cured by diet alone. I do know plenty of survivors who have changed their diets for the good, and with surgery and adjunct therapies, weight loss and exercise, have managed to overcome cancer, that's for sure!
Because of her many books on nutrition, many people don't realize it, but even Suzanne Somers had surgery and radiation treatment, and while she chose not to undergo chemotherapy and instead moved on to overhaul her diet and exercise, she didn't rely on nutrition alone to get well.
I get it. Nutrition is huge. People on this board will tell you, I'm always on about something re: food, lol! I eliminated the reliance I had on prescription stomach acid blockers by the use of organic apple cider vinegar. Ulcers have healed, and my bones have even strengthened. Am I glad to be off those pills and be having little fizzy drinks of ACV and baking soda instead? You bet I am! I always try to be open-minded about health issues and always take a natural, nutrition-based approach first. But there are times when pharmaceuticals are necessary, and I have accepted that. For me. I wouldn't interfere with anyone else's decisions or beliefs regarding medicine either. Like you, I can respect the others' opinion without necessarily having to share it.
I respect Fishmanpa's opinion too. Now for me, his opinion on cancer treatment would take on even greater significance if I was diagnosed with cancer; I might look very closely at what he has done and continues to do, because he is a survivor. What I would want to be! I may look more closely at Suzanne Somers' decision to forego chemotherapy and why, and study her lifestyle since, for the same reason. I have a colleague who has survived ovarian cancer and although she had surgery and chemo, credits back-to-basics organic foods for keeping her cancer-free. I believe there is a lot of wisdom in all of her choices. 10 years of healthy survival tell me so!
I have suffered from depression all of my life, sometimes moreso than others (never being able to really sift out why so). I saw a naturopath who is also a medical doctor, for the better part of two years, because I wanted health in all aspects, as naturally as possible. I took IV vitamin therapy, underwent a 30-day elimination diet (and was able to leave the "IBD" pharmaceuticals behind ever since!) I took herbs, natural supplements, and completely changed my pantry and refrigerator. I fought off sugar cravings by healthy snacking, lots of water and taking walks. But then winter would come and I'd become depressed again. Really depressed. I took a saliva test that was shipped to a U.S. lab, did complete blood workups and 24-hour urine specimens. The doctor suggested bioidentical hormone therapy, and I applied low-dose creams daily, and took capsules. Boosted my vitamin D. A lot. And C, and was covered off for every nutritional deficiency she was able to test for, even if it was borderline or still in normal range. In summer, I swam, I walked more, sought out the sun. But come the second winter, I fell into depression again. The doctor adjusted the hormones. Adjusted the supplements. I took IV vitamin therapy again. One day, I realized that I was unaccountably anxious, on top of being depressed. Anxious, hopeless, and achingly depressed. I was a jittery, teary mess, and couldn't even drag myself out into the sunshine anymore. There were no other safe adjustments to make to my supplements or my hormones, the doctor said. I had to realize that there was nothing left that we hadn't already done. It looked pretty hopeless. I was desperate. That's when I went to my old family doctor, and ... was diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder. Was started on venlaxafine (an SNRI indicated for my condition), with a gradual increase heading into winter this season. I have changed nothing else, and I am well. I hear a lot about there being no proof that depression is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. There is no evidence, I hear you. I am, however, unable to refute the fact that the drug has made the difference for my mental wellbeing, finally. I continue to do my best to practice healthy nutrition and lifestyle as well. I accept that the "theory" of chemical imbalance and its successful treatment through drugs cannot at this time be proved. However, I tried everything else, and this is what has helped me. If in fact, there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance, then why has a chemical adjustment made me well?
Disease is a tricky thing. It winds around and through nutrition and lack therof, and confounds us with genetics and environmental factors beyond our control. Western medicine does not have all the answers, and sometimes its answers are wrong. But neither are naturopathy and nutrition the complete answer where many diseases are concerned. More's the pity, I say ...
Thanks again for your input, Catherine, and I mean that! Big hugs, and welcome again! But when it comes to cancer, with all due respect to you, I will trust Fishmanpa's opinion. And when it comes to depression, I will trust my GP.
Love, Marie xx
Hi again Marie of course you can call me by my first name :)
I totally agree that health is a very complex issue with many factors. I worked in mental health & social care fields for over 20 years and found that a holistic view that took into account and assessed needs including social background, family, support networks, financial, nutritional, lifestyle, strengths and weaknesses of the individual and genetic factors was the most effective way to work with people to maximise both health & quality of life.
There are genetic factors and always will be. But it saddens me that this current generation is the first in many years and many generations that will not live longer than their parents. This is purely down to our current culture, lifestyle choices, lack of exercise & good nutrition. Issues such as childhood obesity, childhood diabetes, adult obesity, a lot of heart disease and cancers and gastrointestinal complaints can be prevented and alleviated by good nutrition. So, where we have a choice to exercise good choices and influence positive health outcomes, I feel that we have a responsibility to exercise these choices especially with regards to children who cannot exercise these choices autonomously.
When treating a person, I believe in treating them as a whole person, not just the presenting symptoms.
I do believe that certain medications have a place, if prescribed wisely with the correct knowledge. However, most GPs (at the time I worked with them up to 5 years ago) only have 7 days training on mental health out of 7 years training and do not have an adequate skill set or knowledge base to fully advise patients on a range of issues that relate to mental distress which they are presented with. Would you take your car and entrust its engine to a mechanic who only had 7 days training on car engines?
First line treatment using psychotropic medicines should not be first line treatment for the majority of (not all) cases, but it is as we do not have enough skilled GPs or psychological / therapeutic services available as a way forward. The pharmaceutical company is also a multi billion pound industry that stifles the research and development of alternatives.
I understand your personal situation and really empathise. I too suffer from SAD and the only thing that helps to alleviate the symptoms for me is daily exercise, good nutrition and getting as much daylight as possible. The only real cure for me for SAD is increased sunshine once the summer comes. The cause of SAD as I interpret it is environmental and alleviated by environmental changes.
A chemical treatment merely suppresses these symptoms, in my experience, but also suppress energy levels, quality of sleep & concentration which is counterproductive in my case.
I have been prescribed anti depressants for anxiety / panic attacks for 14 years. I am currently on a very low dose 5mg and will be tapering very slowly. I have believed in the past that I needed this medication as I suffered terribly when I have withdrawn in the past due to prolonged withdrawal side effects. My GP advised me to withdraw far too quickly over a couple of months. This withdrawal will take me over a year to allow my body to adjust to tapering and then maybe another year for me to relearn coping techniques medication free.
Every single medication has side effects and is toxic to some degree to our bodies. Some have more far reaching effects / damage than others. This is why I believe in wise prescription, that currently does not take place. In the case of antidepressants, we are told that they are not addictive. This is not true. They are addictive and cause withdrawal side effects that you will find accompanies all addictive / most recreational drugs and subsequent relapse which results in taking this drug again to be able to function.
They do work to an extent but are not limited to targeting depression alone, they often have other effects on concentration, co ordination, cognition, appetite, libido, energy, sleep quality & personality. Just like chemotherapy attacks healthy cells alongside cancer cells.
If people were made aware of the effects of all medications they are prescribed, treatment issues, alternatives and withdrawal issues, then an informed choice can be made.
This information is not currently available in its entirety, therefore informed choices cannot be made on the basis of misinformation, omitted information or lack of choice due to suppressed research.
My personal ethos is based on a model of prevention rather than cure. I am aware of research that suggests that cancer cannot flourish in a body that has no dairy, unhealthy fats or animal protein in its system, so I don't eat these items, except for occasional fish for additional omega 3 oils and protein and enjoyment of a fish meal. This is an informed choice with consideration of risk factors that I choose to make. In terms of my own mental health, exercise and good nutrition and social interaction / a range of interests and regular rest and relaxation is more beneficial than any medication I have ever taken.
I have always been against recreational drugs and ill prescribed psychotropic medication as a consequence of work within these fields and witnessing the fallout from addiction.
However, I do drink red wine each week in moderation and have recently introduced cannabidiols into my weekly regime for their anti anxiety / sedative & general health properties. Cannabidiols have been proven to have healthy properties for both healthy individuals and those suffering from a vast range of cancer, epilepsy, anxiety, pain relief & MS.
Research into this area is suppressed as is their distribution as a natural product cannot be licensed by one company and the widespread knowledge and use of this organic compound would reduce the profits of pharmaceutical companies and medical professionals significantly.
I am not at all prescriptive in thinking that one thing fits all. Quite the opposite. I feel that we are all so unique with different experiences our treatment plans should reflect this. I am not anti medication. I am pro information and pro informed choices.
I wish everyone on here the best of health by whatever methods work best for you.:yesyes:
Catherine x
---------- Post added at 15:58 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------
I won't get into a debate about it as this subject and other "alternative" cancer treatments were discussed ad nauseum on the cancer forums. Unfortunately, those in favor of these methods are no longer with us to debate. We'll agree to disagree then.
Positive thoughts
ADDED: I do agree that proper nutrition is key to a healthy life both physically and mentally. Medical science does not deny this and in fact supports it. The government is all over this (food pyramid etc.). I'm totally on board with it. I do a smoothie every morning for breakfast. Fruits, veggies, added supplements etc. I eat healthy above and beyond that as well and I believe it's part of the reason my recovery has been good. That being said, cancer is an uncontrolled growth of abnormal cells and doesn't stop once it gets a foot hold. Diet alone won't stop it either. Can it help keep it away? I believe it's part of what can but then again some of the healthiest people in the world get cancer.
Hi again Fishmanpa,
It seems that we do share a lot of common ground in our beliefs about good nutrition, but I am happy to agree to differ on areas. I sincerely wish you the very best in your ongoing recovery :hugs:
Just to be aware that the dairy aspect of the food pyramid was introduced after the dairy industry paid the government for its inclusion. Just another example of the manipulation of facts by those in authority for the purpose of financial profit.
---------- Post added at 16:25 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ----------
Gerson Therapy is clearly something that needs further study and it seems to have issues around side effects as well as poorly managed trials or lack of numbers.
But...
If you have a read about a newer branch of genetic science, epigenetics, which is concerned with changes to how genes work without making changes to DNA, there already is research showing how there are various forms on cancer related to this and there is already a licenced drug with more in development. They believe that through these processes, they can compliment or replace radiation and chemotherapy and the epigenetic route which can mean reversal which conventional treatments do not do.
Its an exciting area. I read a recent article about anxiety & depression in context of epigenetics and methylation, which is influenced by traditional factors including exercise & diet. Vitamin B12 was also discussed within this.
So, I don't think we should dismiss other routes. Current anti depressants were never even created to treat anxiety, but the alternative was older anti anxiety meds that carried horrible side effects.
I agree Terry,
I believe that an open mind is only positive in terms of personal growth and learning. That said I will look into epigenetics :)
A lot more research needs to be done in the area of nutrition and alternatives to many current health conditions and treatments.
I have not only taken antidepressants, but worked with antidepressants users of the old and newer versions. They were not designed to treat anxiety and the premise of treating depression as a chemical imbalance has long since been disproven. So much damage has been done to so many people as a result of using them as guinea pigs for antidepressants & benzodiazepines. Antidepressants are not wisely prescribed and a lot of faulty research in this area also needs to be reviewed as well as regulation of dubious re licensing practices for profits...this is a whole other debate so I will leave it there.
Happy juicing, Terry!:)
---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:25 ----------
Wow great to see everyone talking about this, thanks for any responses that were directed at me.
I am currently at the end of day six of the juice fast. To be honest I don't really feel any different, if there is any difference its hardly noticeable. I haven't had any "detox symptoms" or "healing crisis" I haven't felt overly tired or energetic, I have just felt the same as when I eat food, except slightly more hungry and im not even that hungry unless I see or smell food.
Its a bit disappointing that im not feeling any different to be honest but I will keep going and see how I feel.
Hi Gotta,
I feel I may have caused a derailing of your thread :blush: Apologies for this. How are you getting on? :hugs:
MyNameIsTerry
06-01-15, 21:07
Hi nefelibata,
I think you will find epigenetics interesting. The concept concerns how whilst we have fixed DNA, a gene can be activated or inactivated or its behaviour in terms of other genes changes.
I read a recent article about this and it was tied into vitamin B12, gut bacteria, the second brain and magnesium deficiency. There were plenty of scientific references and given these processes have been studied in terms of cancer, its going to be far more studied than mental health issues alone.
It also discussed how methylation problems can make changes to his genes are working that can then be passed on to our children and this matches to how these genes can be seen to alter for several cell generations.
So, I'm hoping this will advance and pull the second brain and gut bacteria research along with it as these are not well recognised in the medical community.
nefelibata
07-01-15, 17:33
Hi nefelibata,
I think you will find epigenetics interesting. The concept concerns how whilst we have fixed DNA, a gene can be activated or inactivated or its behaviour in terms of other genes changes.
I read a recent article about this and it was tied into vitamin B12, gut bacteria, the second brain and magnesium deficiency. There were plenty of scientific references and given these processes have been studied in terms of cancer, its going to be far more studied than mental health issues alone.
It also discussed how methylation problems can make changes to his genes are working that can then be passed on to our children and this matches to how these genes can be seen to alter for several cell generations.
So, I'm hoping this will advance and pull the second brain and gut bacteria research along with it as these are not well recognised in the medical community.
This sounds fascinating, Terry, thank you:yesyes: Apart from internet resources, are there any good books on these topics?
MyNameIsTerry
08-01-15, 06:55
This sounds fascinating, Terry, thank you:yesyes: Apart from internet resources, are there any good books on these topics?
According to the article, The Biology Of Belief by Bruce Lipton and there is also a Dr Ben Lynch mentioned who works in this are. The other books quoted seem more tied into the magnesium, B12 and gut health elements of the article.
I would imagine there are plenty of others given the research into it's impact on cancer though.
nefelibata
08-01-15, 20:00
According to the article, The Biology Of Belief by Bruce Lipton and there is also a Dr Ben Lynch mentioned who works in this are. The other books quoted seem more tied into the magnesium, B12 and gut health elements of the article.
I would imagine there are plenty of others given the research into it's impact on cancer though.
Thank you, Terry :yesyes:
Gotta, you've been quiet. How are you doing?
Gotagetthroughthis
08-01-15, 22:16
Hi, sorry yea I have just been keeping myself to myself lol.
Im still fasting, I think this must be day 9 now. I really am not feeling any benefits or any negative affects. Was hoping for something to change in me. The juices are getting more and more vile now having to drink them everyday and im fed up of them and having to make all the juices and clean the juicer all the time lol.
I am going to stop at the 2 week mark I think!
MyNameIsTerry
08-01-15, 22:29
How has the cost side worked out as I recall you mentioning it wasn't cheap?
I've got a few recipe books and I just don't want to fork out for all the extra expensive flavourings with keeping to a tight budget.
Gotagetthroughthis
08-01-15, 22:48
Its worked out costing about 30 quid every 2 days. Thats to make about 3 litres of juice a day. I am buying organic though so you would be able to get it for a bit cheaper if your not fussed about the food being organic!
Yea its tricky buying all the different ingredients to make various juices. The bulk of mine are based around cucumber and celery, as you get a lot of liquid out of those, then I usual add some leafy greens etc, and maybe some random fruit and veg.
Wish I was as lucky! I just poured out almost a whole container of red juice that had all kinds of expensive berries juiced in it, but something made it so bitter it was undrinkable! Probably the kale :weep: I juiced a half a pineapple and several stalks of celery, mixed it with about 1/2 cup of the red juice and still had to add some apple juice to make it okay to drink. Only got about 500 ml out of it and had to dump the rest of the red juice. I can't keep doing that, that's way expensive. ... I love the idea of kale, but I've gotta start using less. Spinach is milder. ... Starting next week I'm going down to one green drink in the mornings and super-healthy raw foods, for another week. I'm also eating 1/2 avocado for the good fat, and combining a few nuts and l-lysine, and some pumpkin seeds for protein each day.
Good luck all! :D
---------- Post added at 16:26 ---------- Previous post was at 16:16 ----------
p.s. Gottagetthroughtis, are you drinking the whole 3 litres a day!! Wow! I've been lucky to get in 1 litre! Takes me all day to make them! Lol! One good thing, I'm really motivated to keep up the healthy eating so I don't have to "reboot" again for awhile! :noangel:
MyNameIsTerry
08-01-15, 23:33
I add pumpkin seeds to mine and I find it doesn't impact the taste but you could just add a bit at a time until you know what the limit is.
You could always add a health powder if not as they tend not to alter the taste as the volume is low...unload you are adding the bodybuilding ones.
I found kale was milder than spinach which I find a bit peppery. But I do find it a bit hard to get a decent taste balance so just end necking them sometimes.
I have seen since recipes that include some cacao powder for flavour which is good for antioxidants.
Hi, Terry!
For some reason, I am finding the red kale rather bitter right now, as well as beet (you call it beetroot in the UK). The worst juice was one very small beetroot the size of a golf ball and leaves, cucumber, celery, and so on. Come to think of it, I think that these were part of the ingredients for that icky red juice. Also put in about a cup each of blackberries and raspberries, a whole mango, a pear, an apple and 1/2 pineapple. Omigosh, I think I will just shred the other beetroot and put it in salads and the raw foods next week! We used to have the tops, steamed, when I was growing up and I don't remember them being bitter like that, wow! We never had kale, but had plenty of spinach (always cooked) and I grew to love it! I would have it in salads once out on my own, and really enjoyed spinach salad with some nuts or seeds, and sliced strawberries or orange pieces. I seem to have better luck with it through the juicer than the kale, although it does still take a bit of dilution to make it palatable. Maybe it's the difference in the varieties or the soils here that makes yours peppery :winks:
I do have a book called The Juice Bible that I haven't used yet, and I feel as though I should likely cut back on the amount of greens per drink. But I am so pleased by the fact that juiced greens don't make my arthritis flare, and may be helping the pain in fact. Weird, I know, but when I eat them raw, I get the exact opposite effect and had to give them up, especially in winter. I am trying to get greens into every drink so long as the good results keep up, but the palatability sure is an issue. If it's what I'm "living on" it gets hard to just keep chugging 'em down ... so, do you plug your nose as you chug, Terry??? :roflmao:
MyNameIsTerry
09-01-15, 01:29
Yeah, it could be a soil thing.
I've only ever had green kale. I've seen some recipes recommending removing the stems which I never did so perhaps this will cut down on the bitterness because if you leave the stems on strawberries it completely changes the taste and makes it very bitter.
I've had worse than some of them when mixing alcohol as a younger man but I did find the radish one was too much so it went down the sink.
I found that even after a few days when kale was being more acidic, if didn't overpower the fruit. If it's pure green smoothie though, I could see that being a problem with it getting a bit vinegary.
With being on a budget I end up using more cheaper fruit combinations and just living with the taste sometimes.
I am trying to learn more about which produce is in season at any given time, and, surprisingly enough, citrus is "it" mid-winter, at least in Canada, and presumably the US (since we don't grow any in Canada). I usually just grab whatever is cheap and of decent quality and work with that for salads, soups, dinner veg and all that. The blackberries, raspberries pomegranate and mango were an extravagance, for sure. I justified it to myself by figuring I was making a couple of meals out of them! Oh, well, live and learn!
I agree that it is probably best to buy one bunch of greens at a time, and have noticed that, even once jarred up, they continue to get more acidic, you've described it exactly! Tonight I "saved" a jar I'd made up a couple of days ago with part of a cucumber, juiced, and some celery. Although, celery can be bitter too and I'm trying to not overdo it. ... Ugh, I can only imagine what radish must be like! :ohmy: Lol!
Chopped up more celery and peeled and chopped more cucumber so as to make a quicker start with things tomorrow. I've decided to just keep one jar ahead and prep done for one or two more each day, and fix them as I go along. And work hard to try to work out just how many leaves of greens will be best in a serving. And yes I do trim the leaves up, thanks. ... Hoping to buy a dehydrator one day in order to make kale chips, very tasty, the ones I've had at friends'!
Here's a link to a smoothie I hope to try when strawberries come back to the produce section:
http://www.unrefinedkitchen.com/2011/09/15/strawberry-peach-smoothie/
If anyone else has a tasty 'green' recipe, please post!
MyNameIsTerry
09-01-15, 07:19
That looks like a nice recipe Marie!
I use peach and strawberry and it does makes nice taste using water so it will be lovely in coconut milk.
I use apple a lot along with plums, raspberries, etc in mine. Combinations of pineapple and banana are nice among with some mango, the banana makes them creamy.
Thats the problem with things like kale, you get it in larger quantities and when you are doing it for one you just can't get through the stuff! It's very cheap though.
The rest of the radish went down the local park for the rabbits! It was a very raw taste to say the least!
Does storing the greens in jars work well? I'm just about to buy some Mason jars add I want to start making water kefir and could get a couple more. How long does the stuff tend to last in them because I found bagged kale in the fridge lasts about 3 days or so but I don't have much fridge space to be honest.
Well, Terry, that's the thing. The juices keep for 3 days in the fridge when made with a masticating juicer, so I have been working all along to try to get a couple of days worth set aside so I could get other things done. BUT as I say, any that have had the greens in them, the kale at any rate, have turned vinegary before that. :( THIS was why I bought a dozen jars, figuring on keeping about 9 on the go at one time. But honestly, the juices have not been all that tasty to start with, and vile after a couple of days without a half-bag of apples or such blended in. Which dilutes them of course, and defeats the whole purpose, taking in more greens ...
Could be that the greens are better done just by themselves rather than with cuke and celery, etc. I may just press through a couple of leaves per serving for a day or two, and then just go ahead and juice the rest before it wilts, which then should last for 3 days. This could then be mixed into any fresh daily juice you make with fruit, I imagine. I shall have to try that next, as I have both kale and spinach kind of sitting damp in the fridge ...
I don't believe in juice fasting to be honest. I've been on a healthy diet for 4 months and drink juices and superfood powders a lot but I eat food as well. I read somewhere that it says it doesn't help with detoxifying body but there is no harm doing it. But anyone who's on juice fasting should be careful about the sugar intake.
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