View Full Version : The ongoing symptoms of anxiety and HA - your input please!
I've just replied to another thread on this board, and be coincidence it's about something that I have been pondering for a while... and that is, the ongoing, 24/7, non-stop symptoms of anxiety - how they start and all the trouble they can cause.
Thing is, it strikes me that a lot of the symptom explanations that you find are about "sudden fear" whereas I think a lot of people on here would agree, anxiety is more a constant fear - which makes the symptoms therefore constant. You might not be having palps 24/7 but something like dizziness can crop up all the time without you expecting it. I thought it might be helpful for others if we can offload all the ongoing symptoms that we have now found out to be "just anxiety" into one thread, so that if someone is experiencing X, Y or Z they may be more inclined to consider that anxiety may be also be a cause or that experience, not just an effect. I.e. but my headache/breathing problems have gone on all day, so it can't possibly be a panic attack, it must be *insert serious illness here*.
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I edited out a list of symptoms I started here as it's not helpful... But will leave the posts below as they are more helpful, I think it's good for those newly embracing the idea of treating their anxiety to know that it's not a quick fix in terms of symptoms, you body is wired, and it can take a while to come down, so yes symptoms can continue even if you aren't actively worrying - so try not to allow them to kick off the cycle again!
Mindknot,
I can appreciate you wanting others to share their experiences. There's a certain comfort knowing you're not alone. I'm sure others will agree and share.
Even for myself, I struggle daily with physical symptoms and side effects which can be challenging mentally but I work hard to keep a positive mindset and not dwell on the pain.
Perhaps instead of asking what others symptoms are (there's an entire page of symptoms (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/articles/symptoms) here), one could ask recovering members what they did to help themselves. Why dwell on what's troubling you by listing every niggle and symptom?
Just a thought...a positive one ;)
Yes, you may be right, this is not necessarily the best approach. I just feel that even the symptoms page here which has helped me a hundred times is worded in such a way that it sounds like these effects only relate to "a sudden fear" or instantaneous reaction... which is fair enough in that, that's what anxiety symptoms are caused by... but although I accepted that I had anxiety pretty much straight away after my first panic attack - it was my lack of understanding/information available about how the "ongoing" symptoms may affect me, that fed fuel to HA... I would go so far as to say I didn't have HA UNTIL I experienced anxiety symptoms on a daily basis. What I'm saying is, even with acceptance of anxiety, it was a big ol' mental/physical hurdle for me because I couldn't find any logic as to why it would keep on affecting me when not "actively" in fear of something...
You're probably right though, another list of symptoms is probably not the tool that is required for the job... okay ppl, ignore this idea!
But you were spot on in the other thread. Even when not anxious, your body is still reeling from the effects of anxiety. That's why folks twitch and have aches and pains etc. even when they're not feeling anxious per se'. It's like an oven needing to cool down after being on broil for a while.
Positive thoughts
But you were spot on in the other thread. Even when not anxious, your body is still reeling from the effects of anxiety. That's why folks twitch and have aches and pains etc. even when they're not feeling anxious per se'. It's like an oven needing to cool down after being on broil for a while.
Positive thoughts
That's right. I know my anxiety levels are not too bad at the moment , but I feel completely exhausted. It's like transitioning from a prolonged state of anxiety to complete emotional and mental fatigue, the latter of which is probably the hardest to shift...oh well, time and positivity are healers
But you were spot on in the other thread. Even when not anxious, your body is still reeling from the effects of anxiety. That's why folks twitch and have aches and pains etc. even when they're not feeling anxious per se'. It's like an oven needing to cool down after being on broil for a while.
Positive thoughts
That's how I am feeling now. Like the extreme anxiety is passing but I am reeling from it. Absolutely exhausted and lots of twinges and weird sensations.
It's like the embers of a fire popping and cracking still even though the big flames have died down!
In an ideal world I would take time to rest completely and let my body and mind settle... Instead I'm working two jobs and looking after two young boys! I guess just grabbing moments of rest whenever we can is all that some of us can do and wait for it all to settle down completely.
Hugs to all who are tired too! x
Yogi, exactly! If you can live your life whilst accepting the 'hanging on' symptoms of your anxiety you are a really strong person and should be proud of that!! I think that's amazing. I think anyone who faces anxiety head on and is also looking after thier kids is really amazing. x
Thanks Katki... Not amazing, just don't have a choice lol!
Have to keep going or there would be no money and I can't let my boys suffer because of my illness. It's hard, feeling wiped out already today but I'm determined to get through it.
Hugs x
MyNameIsTerry
10-01-15, 10:22
Mindknot,
Can I throw something else in as a non HA bod?
How many people with HA suffer more generalised anxiety?
We all know from talking on here that HA and OCD have some similarities. I have GAD & OCD and I found it extremely difficult to work on my OCD without reducing my constant GAD which saw my OCD become far easier to work on...some of it went as I worked on the GAD alone.
So, if people on here suffer other disorders, are they prolonging the HA spikes or perhaps intensifying them or both?
Does that make sense? It just strikes me that people with obsessive tendencies can seem to worry about anything and each one of those extra issues could be reinforcing their more intense issues with HA.
Mindknot,
Can I throw something else in as a non HA bod?
How many people with HA suffer more generalised anxiety?
We all know from talking on here that HA and OCD have some similarities. I have GAD & OCD and I found it extremely difficult to work on my OCD without reducing my constant GAD which saw my OCD become far easier to work on...some of it went as I worked on the GAD alone.
So, if people on here suffer other disorders, are they prolonging the HA spikes or perhaps intensifying them or both?
Does that make sense? It just strikes me that people with obsessive tendencies can seem to worry about anything and each one of those extra issues could be reinforcing their more intense issues with HA.
Interesting question, I would say (from an entirely non-qualified point of view you understand) that yes presumably a mis-understanding of the way symptoms work could easily intensify a HA spike in somebody with other anxiety disorders.
In fact, I think you could entirely be describing me :shrug: I've not been seen by a therapist yet (2 more weeks), so although I have definitely had a period where I could see that all my behaviours were typical of HA (hence why I tend towards this section of the forum), I am now in a place where I've stripped a lot of that back and I can see that it's rooted somewhere else - i got on to health through worrying about dizzy spells and IBS problems I developed, which are caused by anxiety, so there is something else to this, I don't know the letters for it though ;)
Again from my own personal reading, I've only found reference to this happening in reading about HA specifically, if it's just about general anxiety symptoms seem to be stated more like "this is a panic attack" not, this is how you may be feeling 24/7 for months upon end. And for someone like me who has found that the best way of dealing with my anxiety is to smother it with logic, that didn't answer my questions; because in my head the process might be:
1. I am dizzy right now. This is the third time today I have noticed.
2. Checking for anxious thoughts.... not currently panicking, breathing okay, my only anxious thought (that I can see at the moment) is about the dizziness.
3. Therefore the dizziness MUST be independent of anxiety.
4. SH1T!!!!!!!!! etc.
I don't know if this is the same for others with HA or other anxiety disorders or anything, what I do know is it has been a factor that has been difficult for me to quash... still is really, but at least I have slightly more knowledge in my armoury so that I can cut it off, early stage 4, sometimes 3. I see that as progress personally and I know we all think differently and need different tools but wondered if my logic on this topic might help some others...
If I was to apply a well know saying, it would be sometimes in anxiety "you can't see the wood for the trees" - hence that bracketed section in stage 2 - and that's part of what makes it so much harder for some. I think anyway... :unsure:
---------- Post added at 12:34 ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 ----------
To use a cultural meme, anxiety (of all shades) is a bit like being the kid in Knightmare that had to wear the helmet, with other people (therapists) trying to guide you through the task of getting out of the dungeon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knightmare
[/COLOR]To use a cultural meme, anxiety (of all shades) is a bit like being the kid in Knightmare that had to wear the helmet, with other people (therapists) trying to guide you through the task of getting out of the dungeon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knightmare[/QUOTE]
I love that... :D
But then I suppose life is just The Crystal Maze, with a bunch of people shouting useless instructions at you through a door while you try and achieve something vaguely useful :roflmao:
At least the instructions were sort of helpful in Knightmare, so that's got to be good ;)
MyNameIsTerry
11-01-15, 07:50
At least in Knightmare, which I watched as a kid, there were people in the dungeon trying to help you too. In The Crystal Maze, just as you are getting somewhere some little bald bloke starts playing his harmonica at full blast down your helpers ear hole! :D
---------- Post added at 07:50 ---------- Previous post was at 07:35 ----------
As a GAD sufferer I have found myself really symptom focused but I don't get to step 4 in your list and its more when it's at it's worst that I would get to stage 3. I know is anxiety but I also know there are other underlying contributing factors hence why I don't have HA.
I found that my OCD came in my relapse about 4 years after the GAD originally started but some of the obsessional thinking was there to a lower level. So, my OCD must have been born out of worsening anxiety but with a strengthening of those thinking flaws.
So, maybe you progressed to HA as things were reinforced by obsessional thinking over those original symptoms? If makes sense given neuroplasticity would show that could happen through association of neurons around the original subject of the anxiety and I wonder at what point that might have come and whether it was pushed on further when you stye Googling because the anxiety saw it as a way to strengthen it's existence? So, is there more hope at halting if prior to this?
I guess either way, its's going to bevery important to change how you think about those symptoms. But has It'd expanded to make you feel this way about any health issue or had it remained about the original subject? Perhaps if its the latter, your thinking style may have not fully changed and it will be slightly easier to resolve/retrain?
snowflake293
11-01-15, 09:10
I suffer with GAD and HA (both diagnosed) but I also experience compulsive behaviour(mainly having to do things a certain way or 'something bad will happen') and intrusive thoughts (usually about harming myself, even though I would NEVER do this) which my therapist has said are characteristics of OCD although I have not been diagnosed. She told me OCD is a broad spectrum and I certainly feel like OCD and HA are related in some way, at least for me anyway and my symptoms and thought processes.
For me my HA is like an obsession/compulsion - the obsession is the fear of death, loss, illness - the compulsion is checking my body, Googling, asking for reassurance etc... one feeds the other.
Hope this helps.
MyNameIsTerry
11-01-15, 09:18
I agree Snowflake.
They have similar drives but the majority of forms of OCD show differences, I believe, to HA but I find Pure O to be about the closest.
Doing things or something bad will happen as opposed to relieve anxiety is more Magical Thinking OCD, which is one I have eg "if I don't touch X a certain way whilst thinking of family member Y then something bad will happen to them".
Perhaps it could mean that due to similar underlying thinking styles, there is a possibility of co morbity between the two? It must make both of them worse though with you bouncing between them. When my OCD was at it's worst, I felt like I was losing my mind!
snowflake293
11-01-15, 09:26
My health anxiety definitely feels like an obsession to me, with strong elements of phobia too. I have found myself avoiding certain situations and even saying certain words and phrases now. If people start talking about cancer I feel sick and I am terrified of having tests and scans.
Regards the magical thinking, I have had this since I was a child - I was never really aware of what it was and obviously didn't tell people about it, it's only since I explored things a bit deeper with my therapist that I really became aware of it. It sounds really daft but sometimes I feel like if I don't put something down a certain way or touch something, then it means someone will die!
My biggest fears and obsessions are death, loss and illness so I think its all kind of related for me. Not really sure what's going on, but what I do know is I feel a LOT better since going onto meds a month ago and starting CBT.
MyNameIsTerry
11-01-15, 09:36
I'm glad something is starting to help you Snowflake, I remember how all encompassing it was befits I found some relief from it. I think its a long journey unpicking all obsessions but it does get easier.
I found with mine that I had loads of different objects involved, some phrases, images, etc and it took my reading about it to understand the different forms of OCD that I had. OCD UK have a good resource for this but its not every form ad lesser known forms such as Sensorimotor OCD are not listed.
Have you for that your rituals now combine with your HA? Say, you use a phrase top counteract the possibility of X being something horrible?
snowflake293
11-01-15, 09:43
Thanks that is really useful, I will have a look at OCD UK. I would never have imagined I had any OCD characteristics 'til the therapist mentioned it, I had no idea that the thoughts I was having or what I was doing was anything to do with it.
The only thing that I had noticed before (and others had noticed) is how particular I am over order/cleanliness/tidiness but it is very specific and definitely gets worse when my HA is worse. Basically I can't 'settle' 'til things are done, and they have to be done a certain way. Sounds silly but with hovering, I can't cope watching my boyfriend hoover round, I HAVE to do it my own way or it isn't 'clean' even if it looks clean, does that makes sense? It is a huge problem at times as we live together and obviously want to share household tasks, but if he does something I will do it again or it doesn't feel right.
When I am worrying over my health or being ill I do a lot of tidying and cleaning, personally I find it 'helps' as a distraction but I am not sure whether or not it is actually a compulsion and is making things worse.
At least in Knightmare, which I watched as a kid, there were people in the dungeon trying to help you too. In The Crystal Maze, just as you are getting somewhere some little bald bloke starts playing his harmonica at full blast down your helpers ear hole! :D
:roflmao: I love this, perhaps every situation has an equivalent 80s TV game show...
As a GAD sufferer I have found myself really symptom focused but I don't get to step 4 in your list and its more when it's at it's worst that I would get to stage 3. I know is anxiety but I also know there are other underlying contributing factors hence why I don't have HA.
I found that my OCD came in my relapse about 4 years after the GAD originally started but some of the obsessional thinking was there to a lower level. So, my OCD must have been born out of worsening anxiety but with a strengthening of those thinking flaws.
So, maybe you progressed to HA as things were reinforced by obsessional thinking over those original symptoms? If makes sense given neuroplasticity would show that could happen through association of neurons around the original subject of the anxiety and I wonder at what point that might have come and whether it was pushed on further when you stye Googling because the anxiety saw it as a way to strengthen it's existence? So, is there more hope at halting if prior to this?
I guess either way, its's going to bevery important to change how you think about those symptoms. But has It'd expanded to make you feel this way about any health issue or had it remained about the original subject? Perhaps if its the latter, your thinking style may have not fully changed and it will be slightly easier to resolve/retrain?
Hmmm... well, I would say I have had health concerns in the past that may have got me up through that list, but which were more easily forgotten or dismissed shortly after, it didn't start a cycle, but I do think that charming ol' Mr Google took things up that extra notch.
I can quite surely say this because I was a/ having a bit of a quiet period at work and searching for things to entertain my mind and b/ got a new smartphone at around the same time. I'd also been having some issues with posture and a general level of unfitness that was making me feel pretty crap - that's where the googling started, not even stuff like NHS site then, it was alternative health things... I got stressed out about trying to feel better i think. So yes, I guess I was already obsessing over health a bit when the anxiety symptoms became part of my overall picture and got caught in the cycle - inspiring new thoughts about all sorts of different health worries etc etc... I probably could have cut it off earlier had I known that this was anxious thinking, and that they were physical anxiety symptoms. I would date the timeline from about March last year, so it's perhaps been quite a quickfire HA spell of about 9 months. I've started doing more regular exercise since then and seen specialists about my posture, (taking away some of that initial stress) plus I feel like I have more trust in my doctors now, and am more aware of what I'm doing when I Google stuff - the extreme HA is winding down.
However, of the traits that I recognise from before that period (there may well be others that will be pointed out to me), yes I would say some of them are a bit OCD, I will also admit to some magical thinking... in terms of GAD, I'm all over catastrophic thinking in a number of situations (can't let anyone stand close to the edges of cliffs for example), and I've always been a bit hypersensitive, maybe that was the HA seedling... but I never considered any of that to be unnecessarily anxious until that HA cycle got out of hand tipped me into panic attack territory, which is when I started learning about it... It will be interesting to see what comes out of therapy, but I suspect that you are right that the obsessional thinking might have been simmering away underneath, it's just that it took a turn into HA for me. I hope it's not too late to retrain my thinking, I feel like I can, I feel much more positive about it now than I did nine months ago. :)
MyNameIsTerry
11-01-15, 11:49
I was the same Snowflake, I just didn't understand what OCD was as all I knew was from what I had seen in the media which is rarely anything beyond cleaning, hoarding and checking.
You want to look at this page:
http://www.ocduk.org/types-ocd
That should help you to determine where some of your forms of OCD fall.
It may not be that you have the traditional cleaning form but have the orderliness/symmetry one if it's less about contamination.
The strange thing I found was how it wasn't for everything, some things needed the rituals and some things I didn't feel the need to do them when it came to touching routines and orderliness.
I would mention about the cleaning as a distraction to your therapist. Whilst its likely you are using it to prevent your mind straying to the HA, you have to be careful it doesn't become a ritual and I know that in exposure therapy, they are wary of inserting distraction techniques on this basis. Your therapist would be able to determine the best strategy there.
---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 ----------
Mindknot,
I'm logging of now so will reply later but I just wanted to say on your last point about hoping its not too late to retrain your brain, its proven neuroscience that the brain learns throughout life, so the old saying about it never being too late really is true. They used to believe the brain reached a ceiling of learning so you couldn't change beyond that point but it was proved otherwise and now we have the term neuroplasticity.
There was an article MrAndy posted on a thread recently on the GAD board which showed how mediation over 8 weeks had even been shown via MRI's to decrease the density of the fear centre of the brain and increase the density of the compassionate part.
So, it can be done...Having some direction, support and the strength is going to be what matters.
snowflake293
11-01-15, 11:50
I was the same Snowflake, I just didn't understand what OCD was as all I knew was from what I had seen in the media which is rarely anything beyond cleaning, hoarding and checking.
You want to look at this page:
http://www.ocduk.org/types-ocd
That should help you to determine where some of your forms of OCD fall.
It may not be that you have the traditional cleaning form but have the orderliness/symmetry one if it's less about contamination.
The strange thing I found was how it wasn't for everything, some things needed the rituals and some things I didn't feel the need to do them when it came to touching routines and orderliness.
I would mention about the cleaning as a distraction to your therapist. Whilst its likely you are using it to prevent your mind straying to the HA, you have to be careful it doesn't become a ritual and I know that in exposure therapy, they are wary of inserting distraction techniques on this basis. Your therapist would be able to determine the best strategy there.
Thank you, that is really useful I will have a look.
I can relate to what you say not everything needs rituals for me either. It is mainly about tidying. Everything has to be in its right place, I can't leave things lying out etc...
She knows about the cleaning and she has suggested delaying it when I have an urge to fuss around and tidy. It is deffo not about contamination but more about order, symmetry etc... but dirt (grease in particular) sends me wild! lol I just can't stand it. She has also suggested just allowing my boyfriend to clean things and cook etc... (I get funny over him cooking too) and even though it makes me uncomfortable to stick with it, I tried though and I had a meltdown. I think a lot of it is to do with being control... perhaps cause I am not in control of my anxiety, I can control how clean and tidy the home is? Not sure.
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