nihilism/suicide

[margmx]

Hi,

Not sure where to start. Past 1-2 weeks have been total hell and agony.
Among many other problems i now have unbearable existential thoughts.
I simply cannot see any reason to keep going. Realazing that there is no objective meaning for live is unacceptable.
Days all look the same, hell there is no such thing as night and day. Its a man made concept.
The sun shines all the time and i when i go to sleep i really dont wake up in next day, its still now and now only.
I also tried hard to find my own subjective meaning, but i soon understood that it is fake and therefor i need to give separate meaning to every person,object, detail...
And the meaning just wont attach, its only in my head.

At some point life became so unbarable that i thought about suicide, well i still do.
But the thing is, life and death seem both equally pointless.

I guess from logical point it is meaningless thing to do but emotionally it just forces me to take it seriously.
At the moment i feel like im in no win situation. Like im hanging on the cliff, two tiggers waiting down below and i know that when i pull myself up, something seriously bad is waiting for me there aswell. And then i realize i cannot hold on like that forever.

Is it possible to have solution for my situation?? I myself cannot think of any.

[PanchoGoz]

You're going through a phase that all people with half a brain go through - the dark night of the soul. I've been here as well and I know it's beyond scary.

The solution? Go with it...you find it scary because it is everything and all encompassing, but if you change your perspective, you will also see that all this bad stuff...it's all in between your ears. Nothing in existance has actually changed since you started having these thoughts and feelings. You are just looking at things in a different way, and this is temporary.

Suicide is pointless - right now you have a percentage chance of getting better, even if you feel it is very low. At least there may be something good in the future. If you kill yourself, that would just make the suffering the infinite end of your consciousness, which means 0% chance of feeling better. So based on the laws of probability, don't do that please.

I had a terrible time with this existential problem a few years ago, and I eventually just...forgot. It's important to have an open minded curiosity towards it all and let it go through you. A huge part of the problem with these thoughts is the fear you feel inside - you fear them more because of the fear it gives you.

The thoughts persist because you avoid them and block them out - go towards them instead. You can even make an exercise of trying to think of these thoughts constantly for a few minutes and you will find your mind wonders off them, so try to do that when you feel a bit stronger. That really does work wonders and it's a huge relief when you realise that you just got bored of something you feared beyond all other things a few minutes ago.

There is also the idea that it's not actually existance you fear - it's the idea of the fear of not being able to stop thinking about it. When a thought about that appears, do you have an initial image of yourself going mad because you can never escape the thoughts? That's another way of purpetuating the fear cycle - the fear of no escape. That devalues the thoughts quite a lot, don't you think? The content of the thoughts suddenly becomes irrelevent when you realise you fear being unable to escape them, rather than just fearing them.

So at the end of the day, just keep plodding through, do things you enjoy and occupy yourself, also get into mindfulness as it really can change your perspective on things and helps you recognise a thought is just a thought. All other solutions aside, you will just get bored of it one day and forget.

Sorry if my sentences are a bit long and wordy, I haven't read this through. Feel free to keep in contact with me.

[margmx]

Thanks for response!

Isnt forgeting nihilistic thoughts just deluding myself or im just having so narrow view on this?

Basically i cant enjoy any activity because i know that the enjoyment is caused by chemical reactions inside my brain. Im constantly reminded of this, whenever i decide to do something. Its keeps saying that the value,fun is really not there, its inside my mind, and i panic, feel unbearable horror.
When im able to convince myself or change my views, the ,,what if'' side stays. Usually it makes my happiness short lived because there must be a catch... a negative one.
There is certain disharmony inside me, a constant battle of proving and disproving certain views.

Right now im trying to hang on. If i wouldnt be here, who knows what would i have done already.
Yesterday i was looking at my younger sister. I watched her whole being, tried to imagine her emotions and i realized that this nihilism can destroy it all. I could hurt her without feeling sorry...and then i allmost started crying. WHat happened next, i was already thinking about how i delude myself when i value and care about my family. There are only evolutionary reasons why i do.
That was a moment i just simply lived trough, there was no other choice. I went to bed with the intention to figure it all out before i wake up next morning.
The morning came and nothing changed.

Today, yesterday, tomorrow- there are no such things anymore. Im like stuck in a dark void with no way out.
Right now im balanching on my rooms floor not fell of from the earth, but what is holding the earth??
While i know the obvious answerd to that, my emotional ground has drifted away.

Maybe you could recommend me something to read? I know that i cant figure it out by myself. The more i do that the further im carried away.
I have tried meditaton but i dont dare to do that anymore, no idea why.

[PanchoGoz]

I would say to forget the thoughts isn't to delude yourself, because it's not a "truth", it's just a perspective. It's just very hard for you to see "around" the thoughts because you feel so much fear from them. I remember thinking that I had thought past a point and couldn't ever get back to where I was as I had this new insight into a massive pointless frightening universe. But now I see that I was more scared of the thought of being stuck like that than the actual thought. Whatever it was, I no longer feel a sense of pointlessness and even though I thought my life had ended, I have now found my way out. I can't even remember what these thoughts were; for a time I remember feeling discomforted by the thought that even if I forget whatever it was, it's still true and everything's pointless/not real, but that past and I can say with confidence I'm not deluded.

I know what you mean too about being aware of enjoyment just being chemicals in your brain. Again though, if you comfort yourself by the fact this is just another thought in your brain and that it is trained in at the moment but will pass, you may begin to see past it. It's helpful to, when you feel that sense of horror, just take a deep breath, smile, and tell yourself it's ok, your brain is just being hyper aware of strange things. Even if you are aware that it's just chemicals, this was so even before you realised it and you were fine then. It's hard to explain...but it is just about getting bored of it, and not avoiding the thought.

You say you almost started crying...here is proof you have emotions and care about things. It's common for anxiety sufferers to picture hurting a loved one and feeling extremely upset, because it feels so real and in your sensitized state it hits you extra hard.

It might help you to stop figuring everything out all day, by agreeing on a certain time window to sort through and solve all your thoughts. Say, tomorrow you woke up and made this time at 5pm for an hour. Now, whenever you get an existential thought, you remember it or write it down and put it in a physical or mental box. If it reoccurs, tell yourself firmly you will deal with it at the appropriate time, and until then you will just take things in a normal way. When it comes to 5pm you might find that some of the thoughts have lost important, but at least you can deal with everything.

Something for you to read....I'm not really sure on existential matters, but for general anxiety, I love Self Help For Your Nerves by Dr Weekes, and also the two links in my signiture although "nothing works" website is down I think.

Perhaps that block you have with meditation needs exploring. Don't worry, your thoughts won't flood in and make you mental, and it might give you some much needed headspace. It does for me.

I feel for you in this position I really do. It's not nice but you will come out of it and that's a promise. You'll look back on it one day a more enlightened person.

NMP Existential Guru :D

[margmx]

Thank you!

I just came from outside, its snow storming...not sure why did i even go but felt that i had to.
I took a little walk and i simply bursted into tears and let it all out. While the wind kept blowing into my face i thought of my life, my family....is it all really meaningless, even at that very moment i was not able to let myself free.

The constant battle between emotions and ,,evolutionary'' explanation type of thinking was still present, the later trying its best to brake me again.
I also realized how small i am. The surroundings looked cold,careless and meaningless.

I do understand now that i have developed obsessive way of thinking.
I remember that when i had my first full blown? panic attack i analyzed absolutly every step while i was in absolute horror.
I cannot even let go when i should.

In my head,im talking to myself all the time or more like debating. Creative, but negative side is like a patient and logical, analytical part belongs to psychiatrist.
These most horrifying thoughts seems to come as impulses, deep from inside.They also bring change of perspective to life, momentarly. Most of the time i simply live trough these moments, nothing else i can do. Although im afraid that maybe at some point im not able to hold on and act on them.
i think i was close to that today.

[PanchoGoz]

I understand you're from Estonia? Can you see a doctor where you are and talk about CBT or other councilling methods?

[margmx]

Yes, i have appointment for tomorrow.
Hopefully i can hold on until then.

I cant speak for others, but nihilism combined with scientific reductionism produces the
most horrifying view of life, a whole new reality. Its not only a view but feels like true and final understanding of everything. It somehow contains values aswell, a really wierd ones, cant really explain them. Its like real and unreal has been combined.

I guess my ego tries to find solutions for this and instead on changing my way of thinking, it declares that if things wont go as i/it wants then its not me who is got to change. Its somehow lifes own problem, im only stepping of from the train that goes nowhere.

Is this somehow similar to your thinking when you had existenital crysis?

[PanchoGoz]

This is very similar to me, combined with the breakdown aspect, I also had some derealisation which somehow combined with it all. And it all felt very "final" like you say, that I had seen "through" the fabrics of life and had now broken down anything pleasurable into just a wall of confusion. But it isn't final, that's just how you feel. These things heal themselves for the good of living, as that's how we as humans are built to experience.

[Dan1975]

I think you need some anti depressants to give you a leg up. Good luck

[Catherine S]

I agree Dan' but hey..Tigger was there so can't be all bad.

ISB x