View Full Version : Claire Weekes and "releasing tense hold" on yourself.
I'm reading Hope and Help for Your Nerves and am confused because first she says that in order to be truly accepting you must release that tense hold on yourself, but then later she says do not strive for relaxation, your body will find its own level...........
I think what she means is do not force yourself to be relaxed... You need to accept that your body is tense and will be for some time, once you accept your symptoms, your body will adjust, and become more relaxed naturally once it's stops fighting and starts adjusting.
Look at it like a Chinese finger trap.
If you force things then you're not going to get anywhere. In fact you will be making things harder. As Katki says, once your body/brain sees what you are trying to do, the plan is your state will begin to relax naturally/incrementally over time.
That makes sense to me, but she does say to literally "sag into the chair". But I guess I will just go with Paul David's At Last a Life which says nothing about that.
---------- Post added at 22:47 ---------- Previous post was at 21:50 ----------
I'm sure I'm looking way too deeply into it...I always obsess about the "right" way to accept my anxiety, because I do believe acceptance is the correct path.
On p. 28 she says, "He must try to loosen that tight hold on himself, literally let his body sag into the chair and go toward, not shrink from, any feelings his body brings him. Only by so doing would he be truly accepting."
Then on p. 37-38 she says, "[Masterly inactivity] means to give up the struggle to stop holding tensely onto yourself, trying to control your fear, trying "to do something about it", while subjecting yourself to constant self-analysis."
Wait, what? Is this a contradiction? If you have Hope and Help for Your Nerves check it out for yourself. How am I supposed to accept and float when part of accept is to loosen the tense hold on myself and part of floating is to not loosen the tense hold on myself? lmao...
MyNameIsTerry
15-01-15, 00:09
That just sounds like you stop tensing by trying to relax but you do it naturally and not trying to force relaxation which then just becomes another failure when you don't achieve that goal (because relaxation will come in time and until then you just keep training your brain to recognise it).
I've seen this thread each time I have logged on today, and each time, I have realized that I am literally "tensely holding onto myself"! Even though I am sitting down in a big comfy chair, even reclining, every muscle in my body is tense - for no reason!! I take a deep breath, breathe out and relax/slump into the chair, and I feel better immediately. But, within seconds, my shoulders/arms start to tense again, or my calves, and I have to do it again. No wonder I have such muscle stiffness that I need massage to function! Ugh!
Thanks for posting, ryukil :bighug1:
Hey Ryukil,
There are two layers of tension. Thereīs the tension you have because of anxiety, and then thereīs the tension that you add on top of this.
Because of feeling anxious your adrenals, and also adrenalin terminals in your muscles, release adrenaline, causing tension, and also symptoms, such as palpitatons etc. And because this is unpleasant, and you want it to go, you then tense against it.
What Weekes was referring to was the tension you add yourself.So release the tense hold on yourself but donīt strive for the first layer of tension to go, yuo gotta wait for it, itīs a physiological process, you canīt consciously control it.
I understand what you mean with the confusion over Ļstop trying to do something about itĻ. What she meant was stop trying to do something about the tension, and symptoms. And instead focus on how you deal with it, ie facing, sagging, letting it be, stop focusing on it, and being non-chalant about it. Itīll improve in itīs own time.
Best,
Jon (who also sometimes finds accepting confusing :) )
So for me to be "truly accepting" is it necessary to release the tense hold on myself? I just don't want to still have anxiety six months from now because I was not "properly accepting" for six months. -____-
---------- Post added at 15:18 ---------- Previous post was at 15:16 ----------
My problem is more I keep switching back and forth between releasing the tense hold on myself and not releasing the tense hold on myself because I'm so worried one or the other is not the "correct" way to accept. Goddamn OCD. But I just want to get better and do it "right."
Yea, let go of the tense hold that you are adding on top of the tension and symptoms etc that you already have.
There will be tension that persists, this is because of the way you are thinking. Thinking anxiously means that adrenaline is released. So thats why you need to float!
Also dont try to not hve anxiety per se. The objective is having the symptoms etc but not having it affect you. The goal of Dr Weekes method is acceptance, where you have the symptoms but they dont matter.
Dont face, accept, float and let time pass with the intention of Ļgetting ridĻ of the symptoms. Instead do it with the intention of accepting them.
ĻYou have to live with fear to live without fear!Ļ As Dr Weekes said. So try to face, let go etc with the intention of living with it and not trying to recover. If you do this then you are taking all the pressure of yourself. And this is when you make most progress! Your nervous system will then be given the chance to recover!
Jon
I feel like the tense hold is more of a mental tense hold. When the mental tense hold is relaxed, the physical tense hold will also be relaxed. But Claire Weekes seems to be saying that you have to first let go of your physical tense hold and then the mental tense hold will slowly evaporate. She's saying that the mental tense hold WILL NOT GO AWAY without releasing the physical hold.
---------- Post added at 16:33 ---------- Previous post was at 16:32 ----------
Like At Last a Life by Paul David says nothing about the physical tense hold...
I feel like the tense hold is more of a mental tense hold. When the mental tense hold is relaxed, the physical tense hold will also be relaxed. But Claire Weekes seems to be saying that you have to first let go of your physical tense hold and then the mental tense hold will slowly evaporate. She's saying that the mental tense hold WILL NOT GO AWAY without releasing the physical hold.
---------- Post added at 16:33 ---------- Previous post was at 16:32 ----------
Like At Last a Life by Paul David says nothing about the physical tense hold...
Paul David is pretty much an account of someone who followed Claire Weekes advice.
What Claire Weekes is saying, and there is no contradiction anywhere, is to relax as much as you can BY not tensing against the fear and related symptoms. She is NOT saying you MUST let go physically first and then mentaly. Do it in whatever order you want! It is just that letting go of as much physical tension as you can will also reduce some of that mental tension.
That mental tension you talk of is all those thoughts in your head - apprehension, doubt, uncertainty.
"Stop holding tensely onto yourself" "give up the struggle to stop holding tensely onto yourself".
Whatever, I'm just going to go for the release as much tension as I can approach and see what happens.
"Stop holding tensely onto yourself" "give up the struggle to stop holding tensely onto yourself".
Whatever, I'm just going to go for the release as much tension as I can approach and see what happens.
1. Stop holding on to yourself = relax as much as you can/stop tensing against the symptoms
2. give up the struggle to stop holding tensely onto yourself = don't make relaxation stressful! don't beat yourself for NOT being able to let go.
Moral of the story = relax as much as you can. Open as much as you can. Don't sweat it if you can't relax as much as you want to. Say ok to relaxtion. Say ok to resistance.
How long will it take to recover if I consistently apply this and stop trying to figure my way out of my anxiety? Months?
MyNameIsTerry
15-01-15, 22:05
No one can really say, including Weekes, its different for us all and there are too many factors involved.
What she is trying to encourage is not reacting. Reacting causes you to concentrate on your symptoms which makes you fight against it by worrying about it.
Also, the world has moved on since Weekes and whilst there is a lot of good in there, the primary issue of adrenaline not being able to be addressed directly is no longer the case since exercise is proven to cause adrenaline to be metabolised. Deep breathing also works.
There are also exercises to reduce tension which have come along such as Progressive Muscle Relaxation (PMR).
So, there is no one way and if Dr Weekes methods don't work for you, there are others.
The best way to recover is via the help of someone who has actually fully recovered themself. Iīve found such a person in Auckland, New Zealand. You can see his site here http://healing-anxiety.com/
Best,
Jon
MyNameIsTerry
15-01-15, 23:55
Sorry Jon, I disagree.
There are benefits to this but to say only (or best placed) a recovered sufferer can help us leads us into the world of the anxiety gurus, and through personal experience of some of these there can be claims made that they just can't back up.
Ideally it would be the case that medical professionals had suffered but we need to be realistic in that having suffered doesn't make someone an expert and anxiety is so diverse that none of us go through it all.
If it worked for you, thats great.
Hi Terry,
I hear what youīre saying, but do you think that a person can truly understand anxiety if they have never suffered from it?
Can they understand what itīs like to have the physical symptoms, palpitations, shakes etc, and the mentak and emotional symptoms, like feelings of unreality, depersonalization, confusion, depression, if they have never suffered.
I agree thereīs tonnes of BS on the net, re ***Admin word removal***, but there are other people, notably people whoīve recovered via Weekes method who I deeply believe and can see do know what they are talking about.
The nervous system, mental and emotional fatigue, and the sympotms they bring on due to adrenaline, and tension cause bewilderment and fear. Just like Weekes said, when she was referring to these ie sensitization, bewlidrment and fear, as the three pitfalls of suffering.
Anxiety is the same for everyone, it is all about these three factors. Its just the expression of the anxiety that is different. Nobody is really afraid of speaking to people, or going outside, or driving, or being in a busy environment, we are all afraid of ourselves, that is of our symptoms, the way we feel, the strange senstions.
The anxiety has put us on shaky ground, robbed us of our confidence. And itīs because we feel bewildered and scared. I respect your opinion, but I feel so strongly about this I hope you donīt mind me stressing my point!
Imagine if you stopped being afraid of your anxiety, if you stopped caring about it, and had a non-chalant attitude. Imagine if when you had an anxious thought you didnīt believe it, and just dismissed it. Or imagine if your hear paliptated and you just thoughts Ļah its just adrenalineĻ and then stopped caring. Wouldnt things be very different then. Anxiety wouldnīt have a hold on you.
Is this asking too much to reach this stage? If a non-sufferer does strenous exercise their heart beats fast. Whats their attitude? They dont care! They may even enjoy it.
Its the fear of, they trying to do something about it, the running away from, the making a big deal of, that keeps us in this state.
Iīm not saying itīs easy, Ive suffered for around 20 years, since I was eleven. And Im certainly not underestating how crap it all is. But fear, anxiety has us thinking the wrong way. Little by little, by understanding, by repetition of this understanding, through reading Weekes books (which is important as being sufferers we are mentally fatigued so get confused etc dont remember as easily), and by learning how to face and accept, which are ongoing processes, and building up our confidence then we can change our opinion of our anxiety.
Right now as I type my tummy is tight, before would be agitated, Id shift position, try and use my will power to make it go away, and feel like crap and more anxious because it doesnīt. But now I just let go, face it, and let it happen, I dont try and improve it, I dont try and do anything about it, all I focus on is letting it do what it wants, being impartial to it. This is what Weekes method, by facing and acceoting and floating has taight me to do.
Once we can learn to live with it, and see it as not being some big problem, then we can learn to live without it.
Once again I totally respect your opinion. I just cannot help but express what I strongly, and deepy believe. And my belief is so strong because of how far I have come. From taking antidepressants and being agoraphobc at the age of 11, to where I am now. I have been in hell. I never thought that I would get to where I am now. I dread, absolutely dread, the thought of never having found the help that I have found.
I understand that different things work for different people, but I firmly believe that unless the process of anxiety, ie sensitization, mental and emotional fatigue etc are fully explained to a sufferers, and then how they must learn to allow their bodies and minds to heal, ie through acceptance, that they will be getting hit and miss all their lives in respect to getting better, and staying better!
Best regards,
Jon
I personally think that to recover we need the help of someone who has fully recovered themselves. Sure it can happen in other ways, but I think that a full understanding of the anxiety state must be explained to the suffer in each case!
Jon
MyNameIsTerry
16-01-15, 21:14
Ideally yes, but suffering from anxiety doesn't mean you fully understand it. You would have to suffer from every form of disorder and symptom to be able to make that claim.
If a recovered sufferer learns to help others including professional knowledge then things are on the right track. But we also have to remember that there are examples of unscrupulous individuals who make unsupported claims about their abilities to help anxiety sufferers, something that legislation is currently being discussed in the UK to address.
I respect your opinion though and I agree to an extent because I don't believe medical professionals appreciate how it feels but at the same time we wouldn't have hardly any doctors if it was a prerequisite to have suffered an illness first.
Hi Terry,
I think that if you have suffered from anxiety and fully recovered then you do fully understand it. Because you need a full understanding in order to lose your fear of it.
From my experience and in my humble opinion (based on Dr Weekes method) all anxiety is the same. Whether itīs fear of socializing, agoraphobia, OCD, health anxiety etc etc itīs all based on a fear of how you feel. A fear of your thoughts, of your symptoms, of your feelings.
Lose the fear by first understanding its due to sensitization, mental and emotional fatigue, adrenaline and tension, and by facing it all. An accepting it all. Learn to live with it, to live without it.
This is simple but of course not easy. I am still learning how to cope with myself.
I agree thereīs dodgy individuals online, but have they recovered? I dont think so, in fact they have probably never even suffered, so Iīm not referring to them.
True doctors dont understand us, etc if theyve never suffered but I dont think you need to suffer from all illness to understand it. If thereīs an emotional, mental aspect then yea!
Anyway, just my two cents! Nice chatting/debating with you in such a respectful way! I do appreciate it!
Best,
Jon
MyNameIsTerry
27-01-15, 05:01
Hi Jon,
I respect your opinion, and your experience, but I have to disagree on this one.
I've got various forms of OCD and its not about how I feel. Its more related to self confidence & self trust in my case. I suffered GAD for the first 4 years but when the OCD came I just couldn't understand it because it was completely different. And this is my point.
I think this removes a lot of the thought aspect from the conditions and this can be vital in recovery, afterall we are talking about using a thought process to combat it.
Its also a problem in that its an assumption that experiencing anxiety disorders and recovering provides the necessary knowledge and personal skills to help others. If a recovered sufferer follows the correct path of education, signs up to a reputable governing body, has CPD and ongoing supervision, then I think this changes the situation greatly however I would still argue that they can't make the claim to fully understand all anxiety disorders. Without that they can still be ignorant or not possess the right personal skills to guide other people or could even be judgemental and unable to act in the capacity of the counsellor/therapist role.
I can think of a very famous one, who we can't discuss on here thesedays, who makes similiar claims about knowing about it all and without supervision from a regulatory body, these people can be quite damaging.
I will you all the best in your ongoing recovery though Jon.
In Gray & McNaughton's 'Neuropsychology of anxiety' (2000) they suggest the difference between GAD and OCD is due to more activation in the anterior cingulate cortex (iirc). With GAD it's all about the septo-hippocampal system primarily. This is where anxiolotics have their effect.
Of course the danger here is assuming that because they involve different (although overlapping) regions to greater degrees is that there is something wrong with you or wrong with the brain. A gun can be used to attack, defend, have fun, or as a nice ornament. It's not that these particular parts of the brain are the cause, but merely the activation in these areas can help describe the different sets of symptoms.
Both are anxiety disorders. Both are "self-protective". Both occur to avoid potential negative outcomes. Are both entirely the cause of thought or something else? It's probably one of degree. I think in all cases thought (and more importantly beliefs) play the biggest role.
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