View Full Version : Self medicating / buying online
I have read a few posts from people enquiring about buying Diazepam online as their GP refuses to prescribe it although they have been prescribed it in the past and found it to help, me being one of them. I have also read many replies from people saying what a bad idea this is, and should try other GP's even change practice, and I would definitely agree these are things you should try and do work for some people, me not being one of them. I am fully aware of the concerns GP's have over prescribing benzodiazepines as they are very addictive and for certain people can cause more harm than good. As everyone is different and suffers to different extremes a drug that works well for one person may not for another. I have suffered with anxiety for 18 years, I'm now 40 and have tried numerous anti-depressants, and other medications that just didn't help and I would turn to alcohol when I was having a severe episode of anxiety and panic attacks which led to me getting pancreatitis and losing a third of it. After that I was told that if I continued to drink I would be dead within a few years, so knowing the only drug that had ever helped was Diazepam, I started to order online. I tried a few sites before I found one I trusted and now responsibly medicate myself and have been a great deal happier.
---------- Post added at 06:21 ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 ----------
I would just like to add that I did try several GP's and beg for Diazepam and try alternative medications such as pregabalin which I found to help slightly at the highest dose but my GP started to lower and lower the dose before going down this route. And as for knowing what I'm actually getting, one order was seized and tested by customs. I also informed my GP that I was buying them online.
nicola1980
30-01-15, 07:17
I'm intrigued as to what your Gps response was at you buying Diazepam online? Do you take a high dose of it a day?
MyNameIsTerry
30-01-15, 07:35
Whilst its possession offence is waived under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, importation comes under 'trafficking'.
Were you lucky enough to get away from prosecution by customs? If they establish it again justin, you could end up in some trouble there.
Whilst the Medicines Act 1968 possession offence is waived by the MDA which I would expect tells your GP that he/she can do little about it, admitting to importing it becomes a criminal offence and I would be concerned that they would have to report it.
My GP didn't have a great deal to say about it to be honest. He'd already explained his reasons for not wanting to prescribe them and we'd discussed the subject many times before. He obviously advised me against it though. I don't take it every day, when I do I take 2mg up to 2 or 3 times a day depending on how bad my anxiety is. As for the legal aspect, I now order from a site that post from within the UK. When I was ordering from abroad and had an order seized (60 x 10mg) I just received a letter saying they had seized it and if I wanted to claim it I would have to go to court and argue my entitlement to import them.
---------- Post added at 10:49 ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 ----------
I'd like to add to that, that just knowing I've got them there if I need them is enough to stop my anxiety. In the past I would start to get anxious and panic that I was going to get anxious and panic, if that makes any sense.
MyNameIsTerry
30-01-15, 10:59
Yeah, I know what you mean about just having anything around that could stop them developing further, its a comfort, even if its a daily dosage of regular medication.
Sounds like customs aren't very interested in clamping down then.
Is that a foreign site that posts within the UK or a UK site? If a UK site, they may get taken down if they get reported as they are supplying without the prescription but if a foreign site I don't know what they do other than arrest the local representatives (which they would do for a UK site as well).
Just protect yourself as much as you can Justin.
Its a horrible situation to find yourself in. Is there no other medications you can try?
my gp gives me 14 x 2mg every 3 months im a big lad so even 2 doubled up only really makes me have a good sleep there gone within no time
and I can buy them from the uk please tell me more:yesyes:
I'd be concerned that they are the genuine item and not something mixed with something nasty, like Rat Poison
AlexandriaUK
30-01-15, 15:18
I thought it was illegal to buy prescription drugs in UK even if they are brought from another country, ie imported.
Am I wrong then, also I too would be worried they are cut with another substance, if your Dr want prescribe them for you I would say he doesn't consider it to be a good idea.
Can't believe that a UK gp would condone you sourcing them this way either.
I'm not saying this because I have to but because I believe it. Buying prescription medication without a valid prescription is a really bad idea. You have no idea if they are genuine (there are some outstanding fakes out there) and there is a reason why your GP won't prescribe them. He will have your health and well-being as his main consideration when deciding this.
It's not up to me to make judgements and you are naturally entitled to do what you believe to be right. I'm just advising that I believe there are better solutions to your anxiety and I would make this the focus of discussions with your GP.
Take care
Pip
MyNameIsTerry
31-01-15, 04:03
I thought it was illegal to buy prescription drugs in UK even if they are brought from another country, ie imported.
Am I wrong then, also I too would be worried they are cut with another substance, if your Dr want prescribe them for you I would say he doesn't consider it to be a good idea.
Can't believe that a UK gp would condone you sourcing them this way either.
Hi Alexandria,
POM's are classed as illegal without a prescription from a doctor and must be dispensed by a licenced pharmacy. However, part of The Medicines Act is waived by the later MDA (which is a more poweful Act aimed at illegal activity as opposed to licencing hence carries greater powers) where the drug is mentioned on the MDA list. Since Diazapam is on that list, the charge for possession becomes subject to what the MDA states and in the case of tranquilisers (except 2 forms) they have chosen not to prosecute for possession.
Selling them or importing comes under 'trafficking' hence carries higher penalties. In the case of tranquilisers, if you have a sufficient quantity to justify supply or importing, then you will be prosecuted. However, in Justin's case it looks like customs are not bothered about criminal importing of things like this Class C, possibly under certain volumes, so have chosen to send a letter requesting he prove there is a legitimate reason for importation eg if he is a licenced distributor he can prove he has been licenced to import this medication inline with his terms in The Medicines Act.
Its not illegal to buy prescription drugs remotely in another country, subject to their local laws, but it is illegal to import it. Some companies try to get around this by having their offices abroad but a distribution centre in the UK but it makes little difference if its covered under the MDA anyway as thats criminal law, as opposed to regulation of substances. The Medicines Act will bind them to the need for a licence eg a pharmacy has to be registered, and with that comes a set of t&c's as defined in The Medicines Act which they can be prosecuted under if they breech them.
You see websites selling thinks like GABA or DHEA popping up in the UK from time to time, both of which are no the MDA list, and once they are reported they can be prosecuted. It does seem though that these are areas that the police are less interested in since its easy enough to monitor & trace them.
There is a thread on the Natural Remedies board that Tish raised to recommened DHEA. She mentioned that it was recommended by someone within an NHS role, might have been a gyno, and that NHS person was using it despite is being on the MDA list making possession illegal! Tish was advised to ask her GP about it who refused as it would be 'off label'. It does make you wonder about some of these substances and what the general attitidues are of those within the NHS towards them.
I just spent nearly half an hour trying to reply to everyone and it didn't post. Any legal aspects please listen to, MyNameIsTerry as he is far, far more aware of the law than myself, and sounds like someone who knows what he's talking about. I will post a more detailed reply to try and cover all questions later.
---------- Post added at 16:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------
I would just like to add that I do not wish to encourage others or condone the route I have taken. I feel it works for me, but would definitely advice trying every other option first.
---------- Post added at 16:44 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------
This is a question for MyNameIsTerry. I once ordered from a site within the EU that give you a telephone consultation with an EU doctor, then they write you a prescription and send you them. it's my understanding that this is legal, am I completely wrong?
---------- Post added at 17:34 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------
Answer to MyNameIsTerry. I really don't know, of the three I use one will only take Euros. They are all very reliable, but one in particular will deliver them to you within 2-3 days max in my experiance. I obviously don't have the ability to test exactly what I'm getting but after 18 years I have a fairly good idea.
There is no way to legally get prescription drugs in the UK other than from a pharmacy with a proper prescription from a UK GP. All the companies that sell from abroad know it is illegal, and having a UK distribution centre doesn't make it any more legal. Even if you personally went overseas, got a local prescription and bought them, they would be confiscated when you came back in to the UK.
The overseas websites all have in their small print that shipments can get seized, which if it was legal wouldn't happen !
As others have mentioned, the main danger is that you don't know what is in the tablets you are taking. Also, most of the prescription drug trade is run by organised criminals, so you are funding them by buying from them.
MyNameIsTerry
02-02-15, 05:05
Even if you personally went overseas, got a local prescription and bought them, they would be confiscated when you came back in to the UK.
Do you mean in the case of something on the MDA list Mike? If not, then this would be the case for legitimately prescribed medications eg if you lost your medication and were issued a temporary one until you returned to the UK or pain medication prescribed due to accidents abroad.
Justin has asked if it is legal for a doctor in a foreign country can prescribe to allow medication to be sent. Unless this is covered in legislation, then it would be legal so can you explain your information source please? There is a section in The Medicines Act which allows a doctor or dentist to import for their patients but I'm unclear as to whether this allows for foreign doctors to export it, thus it becoming an import to their patient. There is a subsection that covers seizure of goods by customs under their seperate Act but it relies on them being a class specified under The Medicines Act. So, whilst I can see Diazapam being within that seizure class already, it doesn't actually state anything further than the ability of Ministers to seize it and this would cause all imports of Diazepam to be siezed whether licenced or not, hence it can't be relevant in this case.
If it were legal for people to personally import Diazepam, then it wouldn't get seized. Obviously large scale importation by registered suppliers is perfectly legal ( as with alcohol, cigarettes etc.. ).
If you were given something abroad that is a controlled drug in the UK, when you bought it into the country you would need to prove that you already had a prescription for it in the UK, and it was an emergency supply, or it will be treated as importing a controlled drug. Speed tablets could be legally bought in various European places for years, but you couldn't bring them into the UK, likewise Valium can be bought over the counter in some countries.
In the same way if it were prescribed overseas and posted here. It is not legal to import any controlled drugs into the UK, whatever loopholes you try and use. If you are in doubt, ask any customs people, and ask them why they are seized when found.
Wracking my brains about my police training (retired 4 years). The Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 states that prescription drugs are a Class C drug and can only be prescribed in this country by a licenced medical practitioner. If that drug is sold or GIVEN outside this remit it becomes a Class A drug and the offence is "supply" not "possession" . For instance if I give one of my sleeping tablets to a friend I am committing the offence of "supplying" a controlled substance and my friend commits the offence of "possession".
Now I accept that the law may have changed since then, however if it is imported without a licence (to import) then it is a pretty serious offence.
Be Careful
Sarah
Quite apart from that Sarah, Diazepam is a horrible drug to get off, and that is why doctors don't like to prescribe long term anymore.
MyNameIsTerry
03-02-15, 06:33
Wracking my brains about my police training (retired 4 years). The Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 states that prescription drugs are a Class C drug and can only be prescribed in this country by a licenced medical practitioner. If that drug is sold or GIVEN outside this remit it becomes a Class A drug and the offence is "supply" not "possession" . For instance if I give one of my sleeping tablets to a friend I am committing the offence of "supplying" a controlled substance and my friend commits the offence of "possession".
Now I accept that the law may have changed since then, however if it is imported without a licence (to import) then it is a pretty serious offence.
Be Careful
Sarah
Hi Sarah,
There are provisions in the MDA for specific groups. For instance, Diazapam is in the tranquiliser group and only 2 of those, not Diazepam, are chargeable with possession. So, its a confiscation only thing with the rest.
Importation is a trafficking offence and its classed the same as supply or manufacture.
As far as I know, supply is split between the 3 categories because Class A has a maximum of life + fine whereas Class B & C has 12 years + fine and the MDA clearly represents them seperately in their classes even when the same clause is to be applied. I couldn't see anything about everything becoming Class A so perhaps thats been amended?
Its all far from easy to understand thesedays. Look at anabolic steroids. These are a Class C but its a waivable offence as possession although there have been some successful prosecutions where the steroid is not in the form of a medicinal product (whatever that means?!).
There are other drug laws as well such as The Misuse of Drugs Regulation 2001 which are an add on of sorts to the MDA. This Act also provides schedules which show what is currently classed as a drug, although its not a complete list I think, its just what is known so could change. I suspect it likely will due to the legal highs issue raising its head again.
The thing is, not everything on these lists has been proved to be a drug or bad for health anyway. Can you remember the doping scandals in the athletics community? They caused certain sports supplements to be reclassified as Class C despite having nothing to back it up. There was also the date rape issue that emerged from things like GHB which was added to the list but it took GABA with it, which was a sports supplement and didn't have the same effects, because it had a similiar method of action. You can happily buy these supplements in places like the US and supplements companies were trying to change the status at some point but I don't know whats going on now, but then again new supplements may have overtaken them anyway nowadays.
So, its a very complicated affair. I remember buying DHEA from the US because I was due a new order and couldn't find it on my UK sellers website. It came through fine. I asked my seller why he had stopped selling it and he advised it had been made a Class C! So, I had imported it illegally, but how was I to know? I know that the law doesn't care much for the excuse of ignorance but unless someone publishes this stuff, how can anyone know without reading through the governments legislation website? I know a member on here has done this more recently and I've mentioned this so she knows not to order it again, without understanding the risks.
I'm thinking in the OP's case, customs opened it for whatever reason (my DHEA would have been marked 'health supplement' for instance, and its not illegal to import other health supplements not classed as banned) and decided it was a personal use issue, hence not caring much as they haven't got the resources to chase something so minor.
---------- Post added at 06:33 ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 ----------
If it were legal for people to personally import Diazepam, then it wouldn't get seized. Obviously large scale importation by registered suppliers is perfectly legal ( as with alcohol, cigarettes etc.. ).
It may have depended on how the label was marked. If it had been 'health supplement', maybe it would get through? Other Class C's do get through such as DHEA. DHEA is still illegal but the question is always going to be how do they know? They probably have issues overthings marked 'health supplement' from certain countries that legally sell Diazepam as you said hence stopping more of them but if they did this for the US, they could be stopping legitimate sports supplements too in order to check but this would at least pick up the DHEA issue.
Also, it is perfectly legal for the prescriber to obtain the drug for their patient. On that basis, there is always the opportunity for importation. Customs may stop it, but they would just make enquiries as they have done with the OP by asking them to claim the package with proof as to why they can have it. I expect they check the postage names for any drug companies and licenced pharmacies and not seize those though.
If you were given something abroad that is a controlled drug in the UK, when you bought it into the country you would need to prove that you already had a prescription for it in the UK, and it was an emergency supply, or it will be treated as importing a controlled drug. Speed tablets could be legally bought in various European places for years, but you couldn't bring them into the UK, likewise Valium can be bought over the counter in some countries.
I agree, and I expect customs would contact your doctor if you gave them the details when intercepted, as with the police I would imagine, although it might be less of a concern if travelling between England & Wales to NE or Scotland to NE and vice versa given The Medicines Act covers all 3 as the same regulation is in place to prevent illegal supply. However, I would hope they would have a policy for regular or emergency medication as I can't see how they could confiscate it and send you home without it so they may use a doctor onsite to check usage in medication that is not likely to be abusable e.g. an asthma inhaler.
In the same way if it were prescribed overseas and posted here. It is not legal to import any controlled drugs into the UK, whatever loopholes you try and use. If you are in doubt, ask any customs people, and ask them why they are seized when found.
The Medicines Act is quite specific in that it states licence must be granted under the Act by the Secretary of State. So, I would expect any licenced practitioner who conforms to the 5 classes allowed to prescibe as being subject to this Act. However, is there a wider issue with EU legislation allowing for this which overrides this section of the Act allowing for a foreign doctor within the EU to prescribe abroad? And does any such EU legislation make any reference to waiving importation under The Medicines Act? Aren't there things like this when it comes to legal highs which has recently been discussed as a problem between the EU and our laws?
If there is no EU legislation to do this, then its possibly not illegal for a foreign doctor to prescribe abroad and for him/her to send medication or request a pharmacy to send medication, unless they have a comparitive law to ours. If they don't, obviously the patient accepts the risk and becomes the importer regardless but its strange that we have licenced doctors doing this when surely their medical licence doesn't allow them to prescibe to patients abroad?
It just makes me wonder why the issue even exists unless there is a loop hole somewhere allowing them to do it and then meaning customs have to intercept them all, which they probably won't do.
I don't condone any of this Mike. I don't go near Diazepam other than using it to reduce side effects of new medication, and only them when it becomes unbearable, but I'm concerned when I hear this and how easy it all is and why it seems it is being allowed when these countries are part of the EU.
As an example, I could show you a large natural health company that has been trading for a lot of years and they openly sell DHEA in £'s on their website with a UK address. From what I recall, they post it from the US thus making it the importers fault...which is very unfair given they are conducting the sale in the UK. This isn't a small dodgy seller, this is a large one thats been around a long time.
So, when you see things like this, its hardly likely that people are being mislead into breaking the law, as already shown on another thread on here.
All of these websites ( as with the ones who sell cheap cigarettes etc... ) put the onus on the buyer. They mention things may get seized, and it will be up to the buyer to prove they are allowed them, or pay any duty owing.
They all know what they are doing is illegal, but rely on customs only catching a small percentage of the parcels sent through ( as do the buyers ). Obviously they won't mark the parcel with what is actually in it, and given the millions of parcels that come through every day, customs will only every find a small percentage just by luck.
Also, most of the websites are actually in countries that have very lax or non existant drug laws for medication ( normally not the USA or EU as they may claim ), so they are unlikely to get shut down by the local authorities. Certainly any that was actually based in the UK, and held stocks here would be investigated pretty quickly ! ( a bit like a heroin dealer having an online ordering service )
I can't imagine any legitimate GP giving out consultations over the phone to prescribe controlled drugs either !
MyNameIsTerry
03-02-15, 10:46
All of these websites ( as with the ones who sell cheap cigarettes etc... ) put the onus on the buyer. They mention things may get seized, and it will be up to the buyer to prove they are allowed them, or pay any duty owing.
They all know what they are doing is illegal, but rely on customs only catching a small percentage of the parcels sent through ( as do the buyers ). Obviously they won't mark the parcel with what is actually in it, and given the millions of parcels that come through every day, customs will only every find a small percentage just by luck.
Also, most of the websites are actually in countries that have very lax or non existant drug laws for medication ( normally not the USA or EU as they may claim ), so they are unlikely to get shut down by the local authorities. Certainly any that was actually based in the UK, and held stocks here would be investigated pretty quickly ! ( a bit like a heroin dealer having an online ordering service )
I can't imagine any legitimate GP giving out consultations over the phone to prescribe controlled drugs either !
The government are moving towards remote consultations so we will be able to with our doctors but it seems very dodgy for a doctor elsewhere to be doing it. So, I suspect this covers things at their end and they have no rule about their doctors prescribing outside of their own country, hence they are doing nothing wrong...if thats the case. Thats an issue for our government to sort out inside the EU which is quite easily done given the EU has lists for controlled substances that govern ours...or so a recent article I read seemed to be saying but I may have this wrong.
I know which websites you mean and I agree mostly (you even get them on places like Amazon from time to time!) but its ones like this that seem to be the exception:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=162272&highlight=dhea
This company in London http://biovea.net/uk/product_detail.aspx?PID=21504&OS=204&KW=dhea&cp=4&NAME=DHEA-25mg-300-Tablets is quite clearly marketing DHEA (prasterone) to the UK, they don't have the usual disclaimers and it clear that in Tish's case (who quite harmlessly purchased it after getting the run around by her GP who couldn't be bothered to check what it was and may have indicated she get it from a pharmacy which could suggest without a prescription, which the pharmacist refused, hence could make someone think they could purchase it and it was recommended by an NHS gyno already taking it!) that it was purchased through this website with a US domain but prices reflecting £'s thus putting it in the realms of the Advertsing Standards Authority (ASA) domain for complaints. These guys have over 5k Trustpilot reviews and have been around since 2001.
I can't find them on Companies House so I suspect they are US based but the ASA have successfully ruled against them in the past and they are a powerless self regulation body. Biovea cooperated withe ASA as they are not listed as a non compliant online advertiser. I can find a document that states Biovea has a post office box in the UK where mail is forwarded to an addressee in California and there were questions raised over Biovea's legal business entitiy status in the US but the president of Biovea did admit responsibility to them.
DHEA is nothing like Diazepam, it probably shouldn't even be on the controlled list really as it went there for political reasons and there are studies to show it can be useful, its just not been challenged yet.
Melatonin is also a POM and I've seen threads on the Natural Remedies board about using that since I joined. You can buy that too from Biovea. Here is one off another forum where a GP has instructed them to purchase it http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/27394-melatonin-purchase-in-uk/
It looks like a shady company to me after checking against their address but they have a skip website clearly pulling in loads of sales from all sorts of legal products as well.
But when you see something like this, its no wonder people are making mistakes that could get them in serious trouble. The law has a habit of not accepting ignorance of an act as a defence but this is a very complicated and largely obscured issue that it hard for people not to fall into traps like this.
The OP mentioned paying in Euros, so I'm guessing the continent, but that could also be ROI. Getting it here in 2-3 days is also a concern and it makes me wonder whether that is actually coming from outside the UK...if it is, I need that postman!
Biovea could be based anywhere, the London address is just a 'virtual office' for mail forwarding. The fact they don't have a legitimate UK base, shop etc... should ring alarm bells anyway. If you look at their main page, you can pick from loads of countries they are apparently based in, and all seem to have a local office !
MyNameIsTerry
04-02-15, 10:41
Biovea could be based anywhere, the London address is just a 'virtual office' for mail forwarding. The fact they don't have a legitimate UK base, shop etc... should ring alarm bells anyway. If you look at their main page, you can pick from loads of countries they are apparently based in, and all seem to have a local office !
Not really in the supplement world, certainly for sports supplements anyway as those guys often buy specialist stuff from the US. There are loads of dropshippers thesedays and powersellers on Ebay who have contracts for their stock to be managed, picked & delivered from warehousing companies that have sprung up. I agree that the fact there is a mailing address and its unclear where they are based is a major issue, but when you then look at the fact they are getting better reviews than Boots, I doubt you would hold the same suspicion.
It is interesting that if you switch countries, you get a mailing address foe that country. So, I guess each one of these forwards into that California address. They do have telephone numbers though so it makes you wonder who is answering the calls.
I only found that reference to California because they have been subject to investigation along with a load of other companies for importing an element that was to be stopped into the US. I found it via a Google of the address but who is going to go to those lengths for a supplement company with a professional looking website, more Trustpilot reviews for the UK than Boots and a load of legit supplements that can be purchased in a health food shop or supermarket or online?
Like I said though, the ASA see them as advertising to UK citizens hence being able to take action against them. There is no EASA agreement with the US to tackle websites hosted in their country so the ASA are powerless but they will attempt to tackle adverts to UK citizens but have no power outside the UK to do much of anything unless its in the EASA agreement. They stated their adverts come under the CAP Code which binds UK advertising. So, they must see them as enough of a business entity over here to take on.
They also sell 7-Keto DHEA which, to my knowledge, is not considered banned due to a different method of action. So, some people may not realise the difference and just see the products listed side by side.
I can also see they sell GABA, which has been banned for years. It was in fact fact alongside GHB due to having a similiar method of action although it was never abused, only used in sports circles, so it's ban was never based on anything other than the knee-jerk reaction of the government to tackle the date rape with drugs issue. Sometimes we talk about GABA on here but unless we tell people its banned, they won't know when they come across companies like this.
This clearly isn't a dodgy small outfit and I would have thought it would be investigated but if you Google DHEA or Melatonin, you can find references to people using or recommending them going back years.
I've spotted some legislation that covers cross border supply of scheduled substances so I'm going to have a read and see if it covers things like this and which countries are bound by it to see if US suppliers shouldn't be able to even send the stuff.
---------- Post added at 08:17 ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 ----------
Good call on the post deletion and ban Mike. I was just about to post that you can't do that in the US as its a Schedule IV offence which is equivalent to our MDA.
---------- Post added at 10:41 ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 ----------
I've spotted some legislation that covers cross border supply of scheduled substances so I'm going to have a read and see if it covers things like this and which countries are bound by it to see if US suppliers shouldn't be able to even send the stuff/
Just to update on this.
It's covered by the Convention on Psychotropic Substances of 1971. This applies to 182 members of the UN and 1 non UN member state. 11 UN members have not signed on to this.
So, if we go back to Diazepam we can see it listed in Schedule IV with other Benzodiazepines.
The International Narcotics Control Board (INCB) in 2001 stated . . . the Board points to loose regulation, unreliable estimates and information regarding medical needs, aggressive marketing techniques and improper or even unethical prescription practices as the main reasons for the oversupply of such controlled substances as benzodiazepines and various amphetamine type stimulants. Easy availability leads to overconsumption of such substances, either in the form of drug abuse or by fuelling a culture of drug-taking to deal with a variety of non-medical problems. . . Insomnia, anxiety, obesity and child hyperactivity as well as various kinds of pain are listed among the most common problems to be treated by prescribing psychotropic substances. The Board is especially concerned that preference is given to quick solutions without looking at the long-term effects, as prolonged, excessive consumption of such drugs could result in dependency and other physical and mental suffering.
The Board pointed out that some Internet suppliers sell controlled drugs without regard to the Convention's medical prescription requirements.
As far as I can tell, if you are signed onto this convention then you should have domestic legislation to control these substances as long as it doesn't contradict your constitution or the constitutational rights of your citizens. So, I would expect that countries signed on have comparitive legislation to our MDA and The Medicines Act. That would make sense.
Now, The Medicines Act does allow for exportation under licence. So, in the state where this is coming from, can it be seen that the dispensing company have a licence? If so, are they acting in accordance with their legislation?
For me, the question comes down to a) is the doctor allow to prescribe to non residents unless they are in his licenced country at the time and b) is there any legislation preventing exportation based to a foreign address based on a prescription.
Perhaps its lax legislation or perhaps it lax regulation. The INCB seem to be indicating that a) doctors are overprescribing or prescribing when they shouldn't which might be our situation here and b) where we have those dodgy websites selling Diazepam, local controls are not enforcing this element of the Convention.
I would like to know if our customs are feeding this back because in this example we can see they have meerly asked the importer to confirm their right to import which is not suggesting that they view it as illegal, more as a blocker, probably due to a watchlist if countries they are on the lookout for that are labelled 'health supplement' or some form of medical level.
Medicinesave....I really don't think you should be advertising a specific website to buy drugs online on this forum as it is essentially illegal.
sarah
Unsure why any one bothers with illegal drugs any way, the legal equivalents are mostly identical and cheaper and no issues with the law! Obviously they can be just as harmful though, so keep that in mind any one looking for them.
Mark, its mainly for people that can't get the drugs prescribed by their GP ( which should tell them something about the drugs in the first place ! ) then go on to try and source them from other places ( be it online or some bloke down the pub ). The main problem with not getting it prescribed and collecting in your local pharmacy is you have no idea what is in the tablets. The forgers are very good at making legitimate looking copies, right down to the appearance of the tablets to the packaging.
Even buying legal health supplements from a lot of these overseas sites is dodgy as you don't know if it is the real thing. I would always reccomend contacting the manufacturers and asking if they supply the website in question. If they don't then where are they getting it from !
Terry, re the website, it is pretty easy for them to get fake reviews on other sites to boost their appearance. It is so common these days for fake ratings - look at any film on imdb.com and the first reviews all seem to be 10/10, then the real reviews come on there and tell you how awful the film really is. I doubt Boots bother getting fake reviews !
MyNameIsTerry
05-02-15, 10:40
Even buying legal health supplements from a lot of these overseas sites is dodgy as you don't know if it is the real thing. I would always reccomend contacting the manufacturers and asking if they supply the website in question. If they don't then where are they getting it from !
I think you just have to be careful in selecting the company. There are many large health supply companies in the US that are the same as ours over here. Its more the smaller sites you have to check ou.
Having said that, the same could be argued by a US citizen buying from the UK. Many of the supplement companies ship abroad.
I would imagine, there is legislation to cover these products in terms of quallity.
---------- Post added at 10:40 ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 ----------
Terry, re the website, it is pretty easy for them to get fake reviews on other sites to boost their appearance. It is so common these days for fake ratings - look at any film on imdb.com and the first reviews all seem to be 10/10, then the real reviews come on there and tell you how awful the film really is. I doubt Boots bother getting fake reviews !
Whilst I agree about obtaining reviews, there are many reliable supplement companies that use more modern methods to store & ship thesedays. In the case of Biovea, they've been around since 2001, have legal products mostly, have a professional website, etc so I think its more likely the case that they are legitimate (bearing in mind they have been subject to a US enquiry over certain compounds along with other companies so I'm pretty sure they would have exposed them as fake if they were) company that are selling products they shouldn't be bearing in mind that DHEA, Melatonin & GABGA are banned in the UK due to domestic legislation, not as a part of the UN based Convention.
The Diazepam sites look very amateur by comparison, and those fit the profile you are talking about.
MyNameIsTerry
08-02-15, 07:57
Just an update on this Mike, from some further reading into the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. What do you think of this?
According to Regulation 3, Schedule 4 which comes in Parts I & II here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/3998/schedule/4/ made we can see that the substance I was discussed, DHEA, is in II (Melatonin & GABA are not mentioned specifically but I know the list produced from this is not exhaustive) and we can see that Diazepam is in I.
Part I, which includes Diazepam, has no statement to suggest that there is any exclusions to charges of possession or import/export, however if it falls into Part II, such as DHEA, it is legal to possess or even import (and bizarelly export?!) if for administration to oneself.
So, despite all the information out that there stating DHEA is illegal to import, it is not.
Since Melatonin and GABA are not specifically mentioned, it is unclear where they fit, most likely a Class C but which Schedule they fit on it unclear so it is not known whether they are importortable or can be possessed for person usage. GHB, which GABA is similiar to, is a Class C but in Schedule 2 hence illegal to possess or import/export but other similiar substances to both GHB & GABA, such as GBL, are Class C but not mentioned in any Schedule.
If we then look at the Medicines Act 1968, it is clear that it is not illegal to import a POM for person use (this is overrided by the MDA) according to Part II 13 (1). So, I believe it would be legal to possess or import, for personal use only, where there is no listing in the Schedules for the MDA and Misue of Drugs Regulation 2001.
So, please disregard anything I said prior to this because I was going off the various advice I had and the fact I could see DHEA listed as a controlled substance Class C under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and Schedule 4 II of the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001.
This can be backed up by Release http://www.release.org.uk/law/list-controlled-drugs
The only thing to be careful of is what Drugscope say here http://www.drugscope.org.uk/resource...archpages/laws where they mention analabolic steriods because DHEA (prasterone) is on the same Schedule as these eg Nandralone.
Anabolic Steroids are controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act as class C drugs but their legal status is complicated. In most situations the possession offence is waived meaning that people who possess or use steroids without a prescription are unlikely to be prosecuted. However, in some areas of the UK police have successfully prosecuted people for possession of steroids when the steroids have not been in the form of a medicinal product. It is always an offence to sell or supply steroids to another person. People can also be prosecuted for possession with intent to supply if they have large quantities of steroids without a prescription for them.
I think it could be argued that use of DHEA would be medicinal, but I have not idea with research what the CPS based their arguments on.
So, I would still be careful, but it does seem its ok subject to those CPS cases which I would advise people to check.
I can't spot any reports on them, but I did find this post in a bodybuilding forum http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Steroid-...-m3924553.aspx where there is a response from the MHRA and an explanation of why these substances even made it onto the controlled substance list, as I probably mentioned earlier about the influence of the sports doping scandals back in the 90's. Please note the MHRA response about importing medicinal products but remember that the other drugs Acts override this where they list them in their Schedules (and subject to the additional clauses) so importing say a Class C Diazepam would still be illegal, despite the fact the MHRA are not interested (unless they are counterfeit!).
This still leaves the OP with a complicated situation. It is clear that the Medicines Act 1968 allows for import for personal use, but the MDA overrides this for non licenced individuals, like all of us, regardless of purpose thus Diazepam becomes a criminal offence to possess or import. Now, I can't find anywhere in the MDA where the possession charge is waived for a minor tranquiliser such as Diazepam but it does state this on Drugscope's website and you would expect them to know.
According to the Medicines Act 1968 Part II Section 14 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/67/section/14 it is allowed for someone licenced by this Act to export as long as the product is the same quality it was manufactured as. It has references to other sections which mostly discuss licence & quality but I can't see anything about the fact they cannot send a prescribed drug abroad.
So, are UK GP's issuing prescriptions abroad? I doubt it. But why? I would suggest its more about ethics so the GP's abroad are either 'tame' or their ethical bodies have no interest in whether they export or prescribe abroad.
To the OP - its still illegal to possess or import though. If you do this, it is at your own risk.
So Terry are we concluding that what the OP is doing is "illegal"?
Sarah
Interesting Terry. I think if people are importing for their own use they will always find a justification, and just like buying them from local drug dealers, the choice ( and risk ) are theirs.
I don't think the Police would go after anyone importing a small amount from abroad, they do seem to leave this to customs sending out the letter to ask people to prove they are allowed to have it when it is confiscated, and hope his puts people off importing.
An interesting case though would be if they did. They would have to get the tablets tested, and it could well turn out they are chalk powder, aspirin or something completely legal !
This topic both saddens me and scares me witless.
I have suffered panic attacks for over 30 years and have a problem taking Any meds. I have tentatively tried some antidepressants. But have terrible side effects with taking ONE Dose ,which lasts for days!!! (Mabey all in my mind? But severe side effects nevertheless)
So....over the 30 years. I can now, just about, if I'm desperate, take paracetamol or
Imodium or propanalol (new) or VALIUM.
I get a prescription for 28 x 2mg every 4-6 months.
I used to take 1mg when I was really panicking. And of course it did nothing!
A pschyistrict once told me I'd be as well drinking a glass of water for all the relaxation I would get from 2 mg!!
So over the years I have worked out I need between 4-6mg for a very bad panic.
I've had Major panics but have never taken higher doses than that. When I'm in total panic my negative irrational thought always tell me I,ll become addicted to Valium. And be left with that problem as well as the panic attacks!!
BTW. I always try, distraction, deep breathing, going for a walk/excercise first.
Every time I ask for a repeat prescription. I get a lecture about the addictive dangers of Valium! I am fully and frightengly aware of the dangers!
But it is the only thing that helps (a little)
If. My doctor refused to give me a prescription I honestly think I would research into buying on line. And I can't stress enough how scared I am about taking prescribed Valium, so can you imagine how desperate I would need to be to consider online Valium!!
This situation is so scary
MyNameIsTerry
10-02-15, 10:31
So Terry are we concluding that what the OP is doing is "illegal"?
Sarah
Without a prescription, yes. However, there is nothing in The Medicines Act that I can see which says our doctors can't write a prescription for someone abroad. It certainly authorises them to send it abroad or a pharmacy and the MHRA advice seems to be to include the prescription in the package so customs don't seize it. I don't know if a doctors BMA licence covers this though but its otherwise going to be some form of directive from the NHS, but who knows about the private ones if it is.
If you just buy it though without a doctor involved, which I thought was the usual scenario, then whilst the MHRA say they don't care as long as its for personal use (a contradiction of The Medicines Act! but they seem to be basing it on allowing enforcement by customs???) it wouldn't matter is the drug in question is in the MDA or MDR because they override the MA anyway. So, customs or the police are free to search/seize under criminal legislation and the relevant customs Act which is mentioned in the MDA.
The UN Convention seems to require local governance, although I've only read a summary not the the actual thing, and if some countries are less concerned about their doctors being what appears to be unethical or have lax standards, its between those that enforce that convention and the country in question.
So, I am still not sure on the OP's situation with the doctor and whether if it had a prescription in the package whether they would have released it.
If customs tested it and found it to be counterfit though, it would be for the MHRA who seem to be interested in that although its obvious its more about stopping them getting onto the street than about anything else.
So, because I just can't find anything, I've taken the decision to ask The Home Office via their email route. Its worth understanding about DHEA (which can be made from a plant base as well so does it even cover that?), GABA and Melatonin as well as they are used in treatment for some of the things we go through and I've seen people discussing them on here from time to time.
Hopefully they will clarify things.
---------- Post added at 10:31 ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 ----------
An interesting case though would be if they did. They would have to get the tablets tested, and it could well turn out they are chalk powder, aspirin or something completely legal !
Very true. Then it would fall back under The Medicines Act which has some clauses about the quality of imports and the MHRA say they owuld be interested in ever personal use quantities if they were counterfit so I suspect they could push for prosecution from their Act although I imagine they are more interested in the source, shutting them down with their counterparts in other countries and destroying them so they don't hit the street.
michellejake88
04-04-17, 18:04
Don't buy Diazepam online. You don't know what you're getting, these sites are selling fake Diazepam, Zopiclone, Xanax, Ambien etc. I should know, I was an idiot who did buy some. If you're not bothered about you're health, then maybe this will: I used 2 sites selling them, and then had my bank details stolen. I only ever use Ebay and Amazon to buy things online. So it's a bit odd that the 3 times I bought from them, my account got hacked 3 times shortly after. Don't trust them. They say it's safe and your details are encrypted but they're NOT.
Also, they are usually out of date fakes, cost too much and don't work.
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