View Full Version : Life problems: Progress diary
Hi all,
I don't really know what forum to put this in as it relates to real-world problems. This is probably going to turn into a progress diary if anyone's interested!
There are several issues affecting my quality of life and stopping me from moving on. I'll deal with them one at a time over the coming weeks. Let's start with the main thing.
I was in a short-lived relationship which was really intense and I struggled with the attention. She told me she loved me within the first week. We split up by mutual agreement because I could not cope with her life, due to the constant illness and emergencies within her family. At first, I was relieved to have my life back, but I became extremely lonely and some of my self-worth problems came back with a vengeance; the world quite simply doesn't want to know about single men!
I have since found out that she is dating her neighbour, who clearly had a thing for her, but she described him as a "weird" "trainspotter" who she barely noticed. She says she recently realised that she's had strong feelings for him for years.
EDIT: During the first days or weeks (am not sure how long) of our relationship, this girl was still constantly logged into POF (Plenty of Fish, a dating site). I don't think she was replying to messages although she may have been reading them. She got several messages a day. She was always using her phone, so I could see the notifications at the top of her screen, and she left her phone unattended all the time (I only sneaked a look once). It wasn't a big deal to her so there was probably nothing going on, it just seems a bit of a mickey-take with hindsight. She was also on another dating site because she actually told me about a message she received from another girl, who was trying to trick her into paying for the dating site (this was several weeks into our relationship).
I can't begin to describe how I feel. There's a crazy inner tension that I recognise as ADHD and anxiety. I'm jealous, I'm furious, I'm lonely, I'm betrayed, I'm happy for her, I'm relieved someone has taken that burden away forever. My heart pounds, my nerves burn, my stomach feels like I sent it up on a space shuttle, and I feel like the most inadequate man on the surface of the Earth.
I have tried online dating again, even though I KNOW I'm not ready for it. Online dating is demoralising and I don't know why I subject myself to it.
I need to sort myself out first: lose some weight, get some nicer clothes, get private physio for my arthritis, overcome my impulsive behaviour, face my inner demons.
I don't know where I am going with this. I just need to get it out of me and get feedback from anyone who wants to say anything at all.
Here we go, first update.
I created a fake female profile on Plenty of Fish that's had 70 messages and 330 "meet me" requests in 18 hours. Almost none of these were weird or sexual (probably 3%) and none were offensive or crude. In fairness the fake picture I used was a lot prettier than I wanted but it was the only one I could get that wasn't a celebrity somewhere in the world.
EDIT: The profile had little to no information and just one (very good) picture. Only about three messages mentioned that the profile was almost blank, and several men said I sounded fun or interesting, even though all I put is "I don't do one night stands".
By contrast, I find it barely possible to have any kind of conversation with a woman on POF. Not only do they not reply to messages, probably due to the amount they get, but I think women are as likely as men to be on there for dodgy purposes, most likely a confidence boost with people telling them how attractive they are. When women message me, the conversation is unlikely to last more than 24 hours or 2-3 messages before they simply stop replying.
Now either I am doing something horrendous, which I don't believe, because I am not insulting or rude and don't go on about myself and do not mention my problems, or they are wasting my time. For the average man, I have actually been quite successful on POF and it's my adhd and anxiety that have prevented me from having a long term relationship, the anxiety has definitely stopped me meeting women in real life and the aspergers has stopped me from noticing signals (there's little point in being subtle or sneaky around an aspie, we will never notice).
I was right to begin with: forget online dating, it's a horror show that will grind men down. Focus on self-improvement and then, when I am ready, I'll meet someone in real life without using a dating site.
This has been a tough week, but this is a far more positive post than the last one.
I've almost given up on online dating and no longer view it as important. There is little point comparing myself to a beautiful 20-year-old female model! I have proven to myself that I am more interested in knowing a person and building a loving relationship than pursuing them for sex, and I now know how shallow online dating can be (for both genders). I am not ashamed to be single and I do not need someone to complete me. Real-life dating is totally different to online and far more rewarding.
I am starting to understand that my craving for affection and attention is a quick remedy for my low self-worth. I need to repair this as a priority, then I won't make any more stupid relationship decisions. While I might not get a lot of overt attention (or wouldn't notice if I do), and I have not had tons of girlfriends, most of my relationships were deep, intense and loving, and I realise how incredibly rare it can be to have ONE relationship like this. I've had two like it in the last six months.
I have spoken to my ex about several things that were causing a blockage in my recovery. Now we have cleared this blockage by sorting things out, I feel calmer, less down on myself, and more grateful towards her for the time we had together. It's confirmed that I should not get back with her because I cannot handle her life and this in itself was worth it.
My blood pressure has been up this week and my friend Amy has accused me of "having a mid-life crisis", which is basically true. My blood pressure has decreased towards somewhat normal, and I have realised that this has been an unusually severe blip, the kind I haven't had for a while - which in itself shows my progress.
It's been the week from hell, but it has taught me several very important lessons that, if remembered and used, could put me back on the path to total recovery.
Isn't there anywhere online where you can mingle with females which adhd ?
Maybe you could relate better.
I knew a girl once with a bf with adhd and she said it made him fun company.
A lot can depend on dating sites too. I dated online and the sites were very different. If the environment on there doesn't suit you try others until things feel better suited.
Hi Oosh. I went on a date with a girl who had ADHD and I was worn out by the end of it. What I need to do is get myself into balance before I start looking for a girlfriend. At that point I will try to meet someone in real life. The hard part is going to be learning how to pick up signals, and noticing when someone is showing romantic interest in me, as I suck at both these things.
My blood pressure has come down to "high normal" from "moderate hypertension". I have learned a few very important things about myself, my illness and my place in the world. I no longer feel "broken" - I actually feel more normal than I ever have, like there is less of a gulf between me and other people. I am starting to feel like part of the world. And my confidence has received a couple of boosts. I feel like I am dealing with my friends as equals now - I am better at talking to them, understanding them and appreciating them. I am not their pet monkey!
At this point though, the war goes on. I have directly confronted my anxiety, but it is too strong and too dug-in to shift with a frontal assault. I can't get in touch with my therapist, but while this means the blip has lasted longer and taken more of a toll, I am being forced to figure things out on my own and I have made good progress.
Things seem to be slowly, gradually, getting better.
Good for you PP,we have to rely on ourselves sometimes,you should be proud of yourself.
Petra x:D
Hi Blue Moon, thank you :D
Progress continues. My anxiety level is still high, but I have *hopefully* come through the worst, as I am dealing with the intrusive thoughts better, and now my mood isn't changing so rapidly. I recognise the worst moods as connected to anxiety which helps to make sense of them and move on from them. I'd say I've come down from 9-10 out of 10 to 6 out of 10.
I have made my peace with my ex and am starting to move on. I've got a date this weekend, but not just with anyone - I never go out with anyone normal. My date is fiercely intelligent, she originally comes from Croatia and I think she's an aspie, based on the way she talks. She used to be a model, so that is intimidating but awesome at the same time. We connected almost straight away.
In other news, I seem to have stepped up in popularity with my friends and people are starting to rely on me for support. My existing friendships seem to be getting deeper and more comfortable to me.
Finally, I was told at work that I earned some degree of respect from the management over something I was doing recently, and when an opportunity comes for me to move up, I "wouldn't be laughed out of the room" if I went for it. I was also told why I haven't been moved up permanently before now so that I can fix the problem.
It feels so good to have come through this blip, this was one of the worst, but it taught me a hell of a lot.
The problem with keeping a progress diary is that I've always got too much to write.
The girl I am supposed to be meeting has stopped messaging me. I am guessing she has met someone else. Our date isn't until tomorrow. If it doesn't happen, I am pulling the plug on internet dating. I am fuming about this because I trusted her.
Next, a girl who previously stopped messaging me on POF, suddenly replied with messages saying she wanted naked spanking!
It turns out she stopped replying to me because she'd got a date, but he didn't text her afterward, so I guess I was intended to be sloppy seconds. I took great satisfaction in telling her to bike it.
At work, I sidestepped a very big bullet when a female manager took the *minimum* possible action against me in a disciplinary. I was half-expecting to get sacked. It turns out she liked my honesty, and I was clearly acting to defend a customer from fraud. This might lead to advancement in future as I have been told I'm definitely on the management's radar (mainly in a good way). My colleague said that only I could go in for a disciplinary and come out with a promotion.
So while most of my problems are female-related, there are other women pulling my arse out of the fire at the 11th hour. It's good to finally feel that someone out there is covering my back.
But I'm not used to dealing with life (or women) on equal terms. I am used to thinking of myself as disabled, different. I am being treated as though I am part of the world. And surely that is the goal of everyone who's been cut off because of anxiety?
So, for anyone who is interested, we've got another update.
While this blip has been long and caused a lot of stress, I have actually improved my self-confidence and I have begun to handle people differently - more confidently and assertively. I *feel* different, even when I'm anxious, like my strength is coming back.
I have realised that my intrusive thoughts "flash" quite frequently, way more than I thought, and they revolve around just one or two subjects. They only tend to occur during times of great stress, e.g. a blip. The thoughts and the anxiety reinforce one another.
I went out with friends from work last night. It was one of the only times on a night out that I've actually thought I looked good. I dragged my friend Andy along as he is also lonely and way more socially awkward than myself. He didn't enjoy it that much due to his shyness but it was a valuable experience for us both and I think he will go again next time. I noticed several girls who kept looking at me and I am pretty sure one of them stroked my arm on the dancefloor, but I am not ready for this yet and didn't speak to any of them. I also helped a girl after I found her lying on the floor in the car park (so drunk she fell over).
My irritatingly obnoxious doctor found a different me in his waiting room: I refused to be bullied or bulldozed, told him exactly what I wanted and made sure everything I wanted to know was addressed. He measured my blood pressure and said it was normal - the high readings are stress and anxiety - and began to chase up my medication/mental health appointment while I was there.
Finally, I keep saying I am quitting POF, but like I said, I feel differently now. I've started getting attention on there and people are replying to messages. My attitude is "if they like me they'll reply, if they don't then **** 'em". I am being more open, honest and forward, and people seem to be responding to it.
---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:03 ----------
Captain's log, supplemental.
I am starting to encounter the "limits" of my anxiety - I am recognising where exactly the anxiety is stopping me from recovering and/or moving on with my life. I can see which parts of me are unaffected. I am beginning to understand the size and shape of the problem. In short, I am aware of the anxiety now, it isn't just raging while I hide away not knowing what's going on.
I am coming to understand that all of my problems - including the intrusive thoughts - are caused by a kind of overwhelming, innate anxiety that clouds my mind and my senses, and causes me to clam up and withdraw from things.
Because I can see the problem, I can see the solution. I 100% believe that I need medical intervention (the correct medication) to help get me onto a level because my anxiety is too severe to beat without it. Once the medication has started to ease the anxiety, I can use therapy and self-help to gradually make improvements to myself and my life, and eventually recover from the anxiety altogether.
Then I'll have the complete package: I'll have built up my confidence, self esteem and self worth, I'll hopefully be fitter and healthier, I'll look for positive outcomes more often, and (according to my therapist) my brain itself will recover and develop, which it hasn't been able to do due to impairment caused by anxiety and ADHD. Without the anxiety making me want to retreat, I might actually be able to make something of myself!
Some of the anxiety has dissipated and I am seeing signs that I am coming out of my brooding/obsessional/mid-life crisis phase.
I have finally pinned my therapist down for a phone call tonight. I intend to have several therapy sessions aimed at dealing with my intrusive thoughts and my over-reaction to stress and anxiety. I've noticed that grey skies and bad weather have a severe impact on my mood and therefore my anxiety so I will be discussing this with her too.
I am starting to put the online dating thing behind me at last!
I'm making a formal complaint about the NHS and have sought legal advice, as I should have been on treatment a year ago that could have helped me get further in life than I currently am and I have suffered significant distress, including the breakdown of two relationships, due to anxiety that should have been treated from early 2014.
So it's all progress here.
I've changed my username from PsychoPoet to NoPoet. I no longer see myself as broken or worthless or half-mad. There has always been a gulf between me and the rest of the world, but that gulf was of my making. I have overcome many of the limitations of my asperger syndrome (which made it difficult to understand, communicate and empathise with other people), and it has been a long time since I was worried that I might be insane or at risk of psychosis.
I am starting to respect myself. I am becoming more self-confident. I'm not a ghost or a shadow any more, I am a man, and I want to take my place in the world. So I am picking specific problems/limitations and working to overcome them.
First off is my problem initiating tasks. I find it hard to start things, or finish them once I've started, without someone else motivating me. This is mainly due to anxiety and also due to my ADHD making it stressful to try and concentrate for long periods. I'm starting in a small way - by reading books that have been sitting on my shelf for months/years, and by playing computer games that I've never bothered with (but spent good money on). In short, I'm trying to get value from all these impulse purchases.
I had a 90-minute catchup with my therapist yesterday (and that was just explaining what I've been through in the last three weeks!) where she praised my progress and confirmed these horrid intrusive thoughts are just anxiety, nothing more serious.
I am also in the middle of making a formal complaint about the NHS so I'd actually better get on with that now.
Tl;dr - things are getting better across the board.
well done you should be proud of the hard work you have put in to recover this far
What stands out for me is your constant self-analysis which I think is a double-edged sword. Also your switches between idealisation and devaluation, especially with relationships. I could write a book about 'online dating', but in short, while you're recovering, and whether you accept it or not, vulnerable emotionally, I would steer clear of all that bumph. Narcissistic time-wasters are not conducive to your recovery.
I enjoyed reading your Citalopram Guide and wonder why you chose to come off it? Are you on any other med?
Good luck with your recovery.
Kev
Hi gents, thank you for reading my posts and offering feedback.
It struck me as ironic (in a good way) that I will soon be taking anti-psychotics, but I no longer see the need to call myself PsychoPoet.
The self-analysis is part of my illness, I'm afraid. My therapist says that some people deal with their problems by constantly trying to work them out mentally. This is kind of a trap because you are still giving time and attention to the illness, where recovery involves minimising its impact and the time you spend on it.
My next step is to learn to cope WITHOUT worrying or analysing everything -- I do this because I'm scared something terrible will happen if I don't. That is classic GAD thinking. It's been with me so long it is VERY difficult to stop. I've had some clear patches these last couple of days and it is nice, albeit weird, to not be anxious or thinking bad things.
I take an anti-psychotic ,what i can tell you they are mild compared to any AD but you do have to watch your diet as they pile on the pounds if you dont eat healthily
Thanks MrAndy, I was planning on asking you about them. I'm not convinced they are right for me as I am not sure they are prescribed to adhd sufferers. When you say pile on the pounds, do they increase your appetite, or does it make you lethargic?
The mirt I'm on at the moment increases appetite and slightly increases my natural laziness.
Today's update.
I have started "initiating", or taking on tasks, and things have already started improving for me. Today I found myself suddenly starting to work on my writing for the first time in a while. I have been researching post mortem reports as I am writing a post mortem for an alien. I've had to learn quite a few things and I was not affected by the fact that I have had to read an actual American autopsy report.
I've also started making progress in the super-hard games Xenonauts and Final Fantasy 7 Hardcore; while games aren't exactly helping me to build a real life, they are giving me a chance to have fun, de-stress and enjoy myself.
My social life is improving by stages. I've been invited out tonight by colleagues for a takeaway and I've also been invited to a weekend away in May. Being stuck in all day hasn't helped, but it isn't just anxiety: the weather has been dreadful.
Yesterday, though, the weather was glorious, so I spent several hours sitting in the back garden learning the rules for Warhammer 40,000 (these are miles more complicated than they used to be, fielding a Great Unclean One and a Bloodthirster in the same army and using them to full effectiveness would require you to bring your own savant).
I have not logged onto POF for over 36 hours which is a huge plus for me, considering how obsessed I've been and how much anxiety/stress it's brought me.
I am very, very pleased at how much progress I've made following the recent blip, and am happy that I made this progress on my own, rather than having my therapist take it all away. Long-term recovery depends on being able to reassure myself and not relying on other people.
If this carries on, I will be putting my money where my mouth is and going for the Mensa test later this year or next year.
Next update.
Without entirely meaning to, I have stumbled across dating/relationship advice that actually talks straight and does apply to people with social anxiety, and it applies equally to men and women. Thing is, this advice goes beyond mere dating, it actually encourages you to look at yourself - your perceptions, your beliefs, your goals - and sort them out so that you no longer feel helpless, powerless or hopeless in terms of finding someone new. By extension, you could apply this to getting a better job, taking up a new hobby or flat-out recovering from illness.
This advice and the insights it gave me apply to many aspects of my life. To be honest, I might actually start some kind of blog on the subject. I've found that several of the opinions I've formed, and that other people with social anxiety constantly bitch about, are based on logical fallacy and negative bias -- exactly the things I've started preaching about to other people.
It makes me wonder if anxiety and depression are actually an illness of logic -- some kind of inability to think and behave logically -- and not necessarily something biological or terrible, or even something that requires medication in some cases.
After all, if you believe that you are worthless and unattractive, and that the opposite sex finds you loathsome... wouldn't it be better to improve your own physical and mental fitness, take more care of your hygeine and appearance, start noticing and appreciating your strengths and learn to tolerate and eventually thrive in situations where you deal with lots of people you don't know?
How is medication supposed to do any of that for you? It doesn't, it alleviates your symptoms and gives you space to do the hard work for yourself. You do the work yourself, but you believe the medication is making you do it.
So... we believe ourselves better by correcting the flaws in our logic. Boom, there goes the anxiety disorder.
Does that make any sense?
A new update!
I've had a really good couple of weeks. The weather has made a difference. I've been enjoying some downtime playing Final Fantasy 7 Hardcore and Xenonauts. I've also been enjoying the sun, catching up on my reading, working on my writing (including a FFVII Hardcore strategy guide) and making an effort to learn the new Warhammer 40,000 rules.
I've also learned that I can use an exercise bike without worsening my arthritis which should help me lose weight. The arthritis is hugely improved on 20mg of methotrexate and I am no longer taking painkillers more than once a day, or limping/struggling any more. I can go a couple of days without any painkillers at all. It's the first time in over a year that I haven't needed the maximum dose of painkillers every day.
I've been going out more and doing that thing every aspie hates: making small talk. It's weird, but not that bad once you get used to it; I'm not sure why we aspies hate it so much. I seem to be getting better at listening to people and socialising in general. I gave up on plenty of fish ages ago and haven't looked back. My blood pressure has returned to a healthy 125/75.
I feel calmer, stronger, deeper, more thoughtful, more respectful, more intelligent, more considerate. I still suck at some of these things but I am definitely improving.
Every so often the negative thoughts strike but I seem to be getting over them more quickly and they aren't affecting me as badly as they did a month ago. I've barely needed any support for a while now.
Next update.
I had a rather nasty blip the other day. It's the contrast between how good I often feel now, and how bad I used to feel, that makes blips worse. I held my nerve, sought support from Samaritans when needed and made sure I kept myself busy. The blip lasted about 24 hours -- it is really rare that a blip as bad as that lasts less than a week.
The negative thoughts do strike occasionally, and it seems I'm bringing them on myself by looking for them and fearing their return. The negative effects are noticeably shorter and I am better at staying on track; definite progress is being made here, and life is better for it.
I am looking for a new job and intend to tackle the associated stress/anxiety if and when it arises. I'm wanting to get a Mon-Fri office job. I don't really care if this means taking a pay cut. Job satisfaction is more important.
I am now going private to get the ADHD treatment denied to me by the NHS. I have made a formal complaint about the ADHD consultant who told me I do not have aspergers or ADHD, despite my formal diagnoses of both, and who consistently gave me incorrect and somewhat bizarre advice. I am requesting the NHS to pay for my private consultation, which is costing me £400. If they don't, I will sue them for this amount and for the distress caused by their delays and incompetence.
"and it seems I'm bringing them on myself by looking for them and fearing their return."
Yeh I do this. I'm on holiday at moment and when I'm lost in the moment and enjoying myself I have a numbing tendency to ask myself "what if it disappears ?" It can equal instant anxiety and I have to rebuild the mood.
I'm glad you navigated through your blip.
Oosh, I share your pain. These days I only tend to experience blips when I realise how happy I'm becoming. This SUCKS -- but each time it happens, the effects are a little bit shorter, a little bit less powerful, and my unconscious positive thinking is a little bit quicker to leap on the bad thoughts and muzzle them.
I am starting to see these blips as mini-relapses. I've always argued the difference between a blip and a relapse, but I think I'm a special case. I think that I am trying to recover completely - that, spiritually speaking, I am ready to leave the illness behind forever - but something keeps dragging me down. I think it's the ADHD. Therefore, ADHD medication *is* a requirement for taking the next step.
Unfortunately, I just realised that Strattera (for ADHD) is an SNRI. I went through hell while trying to take SSRIs. Strattera is from a different class to cit/sert, but I keep remembering the horrible thoughts/anxiety from my time on SSRIs, and it puts me off trying Strattera.
That said, the SNRI class is (distantly) similar to the NaSSA class. Mirtazapine is a NaSSA, and I had no horrible effects on mirt; mirt and stratt can also be taken together, the stratt to provide energy and focus, the mirt to improve sleep.
I guess this fear is just a throwback to the old days when I used to freak out about everything.
It's ironic, but this bout of fear has actually shown me how far I've come, and how unusual it is for me to get this worked up about something.
MyNameIsTerry
20-04-15, 04:43
"and it seems I'm bringing them on myself by looking for them and fearing their return."
Yeh I do this. I'm on holiday at moment and when I'm lost in the moment and enjoying myself I have a numbing tendency to ask myself "what if it disappears ?" It can equal instant anxiety and I have to rebuild the mood.
I'm glad you navigated through your blip.
I have this too. I have spoken to people in the charity walk-ins who experience this and there are others on here.
Its something that I believe has become a problem due to long term anxiety disorders. At first they are alien and you hate them but over a long period of time your core beliefs change so that being anxiety becomes normal to you. Then as you start to recover and experience a better day, you question it and see it as alien and ask why you are not feeling as you should do - anxious. This just brings it all back.
I've had times where I've questioned whether feeling happy or good is normal and worried about the sensations of that.
So, we have to change our core beliefs back again or, most likely, to a new one.
I hope you are having a good holiday, Oosh, don't let it win!
---------- Post added at 04:18 ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 ----------
Oosh, I share your pain. These days I only tend to experience blips when I realise how happy I'm becoming. This SUCKS -- but each time it happens, the effects are a little bit shorter, a little bit less powerful, and my unconscious positive thinking is a little bit quicker to leap on the bad thoughts and muzzle them.
I am starting to see these blips as mini-relapses. I've always argued the difference between a blip and a relapse, but I think I'm a special case. I think that I am trying to recover completely - that, spiritually speaking, I am ready to leave the illness behind forever - but something keeps dragging me down. I think it's the ADHD. Therefore, ADHD medication *is* a requirement for taking the next step.
Unfortunately, I just realised that Strattera (for ADHD) is an SNRI. I went through hell while trying to take SSRIs. Strattera is from a different class to cit/sert, but I keep remembering the horrible thoughts/anxiety from my time on SSRIs, and it puts me off trying Strattera.
That said, the SNRI class is (distantly) similar to the NaSSA class. Mirtazapine is a NaSSA, and I had no horrible effects on mirt; mirt and stratt can also be taken together, the stratt to provide energy and focus, the mirt to improve sleep.
I guess this fear is just a throwback to the old days when I used to freak out about everything.
It's ironic, but this bout of fear has actually shown me how far I've come, and how unusual it is for me to get this worked up about something.
I found that initially you start as constantly anxious and then you get little gaps where its not as bad. As you recover more you notice the balance of power shift from bad to good and these better periods take over as the larger ones with the bad ones, the "blips", coming back in smaller & less intense ways/periods.
I was like this:
3 weeks bad to 1 week not as bad
2 weeks bad to 2 weeks not as bad
10 days bad to 5 days feeling a bit better
8 days bad to 5 days feeling a bit better
7 days bad to 5 days feeling a bit better
5 days bad to 5 days feeling a bit better
5 days bad to 7 days feeling a bit better
4 days bad to 7 days feeling a bit better
3 days bad to 7 days feeling a bit better
2 days bad to 7 days feeling a bit better
Then a wobble period.
2 days bad to 5 days feeling a bit better
3 days bad to 5 days feeling a bit better
Then it turned in my favour again.
3 days bad to 7 days feeling a bit better
3 days bad to 8 days feeling a bit better
3 days bad to 10 days feeling a bit better
I see my anxiety recovery as in stages. Dr Claire Weekes discussed "layers" and this makes sense to me when I think about my journey.
The above took place over about 3 or so years from my relapse period and the worsening that was caused by starting Duloxetine.
---------- Post added at 04:43 ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 ----------
Therefore, ADHD medication *is* a requirement for taking the next step.
Unfortunately, I just realised that Strattera (for ADHD) is an SNRI. I went through hell while trying to take SSRIs. Strattera is from a different class to cit/sert, but I keep remembering the horrible thoughts/anxiety from my time on SSRIs, and it puts me off trying Strattera.
That said, the SNRI class is (distantly) similar to the NaSSA class. Mirtazapine is a NaSSA, and I had no horrible effects on mirt; mirt and stratt can also be taken together, the stratt to provide energy and focus, the mirt to improve sleep.
This one is a NRI as it doesn't work with serotonin as well.
I'm on a SNRI currently, Duloxetine. You have to taper onto it for GAD and I suspect the reason for that is the generic dosage crosses the threshold when it stops only working on serotonin and starts to impact epinephrine & norepinephrine. Prior to this I found side effects weren't too bad and mirrored what you may find in SSRI's but crossing the threshold was a whole new experience as it created adrenaline rushes and seriously elevated anxiety levels. This last about 8-10 days and was by far the worst I have ever been!
However, the adrenaline rushes are noted as a less common side effect so it sounds like I was one of the unlucky ones. I also had things like clenching & grinding, inability to sit or stand still, etc which are also in the uncommon 1-100 people category.
I've seen people on here that have had next to no side effects.
There is the same issue with Ven if you look at Nicola's recent thread. She crossed the threshold and suffered quite badly from elevated anxiety.
So, its all very individual as usual. However, with your being purely for that receptor, it won't have the threshold so you should be able to gauge its side effect fairly early on and given it is used to treat children too, I would think it would be more gentle.
MyNameIsTerry - what a brilliant post! I haven't read many technical assessments on these forums.
I think the SSRIs affected me badly for three reasons.
One: I am an aspie, and we are pretty well known for experiencing side effects to medication, to the point where autistics/aspies are excluded from some drug trials, as we screw up the side effect ratio.
Two: There may have been nothing wrong with my existing serotonin balance, so the SSRIs were fixing something that wasn't broken, therefore making me ill.
Three: My anxiety was created due to aspergers and ADHD. SSRIs can help with some ADHD symptoms but are not the first-line treatment for it. Therefore, I should not have been put on SSRIs. (Being put on SSRIs when they are not needed can, in very rare cases, create bipolar type III - I think I might have been heading down that route.)
* I now have an appointment to see a private ADHD specialist at 6pm this Wednesday. My appointment is for medication treatment, NOT diagnosis, so I will therefore be likely to start ADHD treatment on Thursday morning of this week.
* Unless any potential side effects are too severe, I am hoping the medication will cause either a reduction or remission of ADHD symptoms including repetitive thinking/behaviour, physical arousal (stop sniggering, I'm talking about being in permanent fight-or-flight), and I am hoping for improved confidence, improved focus/concentration, more stable moods and a general reduction in anxiety levels.
* I am arranging an appointment with my therapist to discuss my fears about starting the new meds. These fears have stopped me from pushing to start ADHD medication months ago. I need to overcome this fear of medication, as it has caused me great distress over a period of years, and I cannot get better until I've overcome it.
I've spoken to my therapist about my fears for the new ADHD medication. She will continue to support me, but believes it's unlikely I will struggle with it. She said the girl who has started on ADHD medication before me has been far more confident, outgoing, as if a whole aspect of her personality had been suppressed by anxiety/ADHD and was now coming out for the first time. And this has been from the first day on the meds.
I am nervous as hell after the issues I've had with citalopram and sertraline, but I am a different person now and this is a different medication. I've spoken to my team leader at work to let her know the next time she sees me I may be very different, for better or for worse, hopefully better.
My friends are standing by to support me whatever comes next.
So this is it, the moment I've waited for all my life. The crossroads. The turning point. It's time to stop giving in to anxiety, and make one final defiant charge before the medication sweeps in like the cavalry.
MyNameIsTerry
22-04-15, 04:51
Trust in what she is saying. We all know that antidepressants can cause a load of side effects but the medications for ADHD are more used with children, aren't they? Antidepressants cannot be prescribed by GP's to children and need specialists. So, surely the side effect potential for ADHD medications is less on that basis?
First day action sounds pretty handy too, gimme!
Hi mate, thank you for the reassurance. It's been a battle against the worst of my anxiety and I am not really enjoying my day off. So I'm treating it like a challenge: Today is the ultimate day, and if I can face it with courage and hope, I can face anything. I've got to trust what I've been told, and trust in the medication.
I'm setting off in four hours. If I can make these four productive and happy hours, my future recovery may be assured.
How did you get on? Hope you had a productive and positive consultation?
Hi Pulisa. It was a good meeting. I got a prescription for strattera, and he took into account my sensitivity to side effects. I've got one week on 10mg, two weeks on 18mg and one week on 40mg. Then I've got to go for another consultation. He said I might eventually go up to 80mg but we are doing it slow. He said the usual starting dose is 40mg. I may not ever need to go higher than 40mg, it all depends whether I can tolerate it. No pharmacist stocks it, I'm having to wait until tomorrow (Friday) to start it.
I mentioned it on facebook and got more likes than almost anything I've ever posted. However, not one single person has messaged me to ask how things are going with it. Maybe they think I'll just post about it if anything happens. This is kind of an issue for me though: I've realised almost none of my friends ever message me just to see how I am. Even Kelly, my ex, hasn't been in touch, and she knew how important this was to me.
Of course, I am highly agitated about starting the new med, and when I get like this I kind of find things to worry about. But if the strattera does help transform my life, I guess I'm gonna have to make some changes in my social life.
Finally, my therapist informed me her other client on adhd meds has improved drastically in the last two weeks: Interestingly, the girl says she doesn't feel any different, but her family say she is far more outgoing, less angry and less anxious, and they said the improvement is really noticeable.
So it's still a case of "hopes and fears" for me.
I have noticed that I've started getting upset by things that don't normally bother me too much, such as the idea my friends don't seem to contact me much. While this is, admittedly, a genuine issue for me, I think it's troubling me because of the new meds; they're causing me to experience anxiety (at the thought of taking them, I haven't actually started them yet!), and my anxiety kind of flails around raising all sorts of unrelated problems. It's like a hydra with many heads.
My wheel has come off my car and left it stranded on a really dangerous roundabout! I'm currently hiding in some bushes, sitting on a fence, waiting for rescue. Well it's one way to get out of going to work! The police are having to attend though and I'm dreading them seeing the state of my tyres. One of them is smoother than Ant McPartlin's slap.
MyNameIsTerry
24-04-15, 08:42
Just tell them you've got a little Ant in the boot...no wait, that might make things worse :winks::D
I think once you've been on medications aimed at things like anxiety, these thoughts always come to mind whether upping, downing, withdrawing, changing or starting from scratch. We don't want to through a load of unpleasant side effects when we already feel we can't take anymore.
The good thing is with this one you have someone more experienced than a GP telling you it will be ok. Also she has given you an example of someone who felt better from day one and is improving greatly in a short time according to her family. I don't think we've heard antidepressants doing that! So, these would seem to get to work in the way they are intended much quicker and you need to hang on to that mate.
Alos, remember you are in control. If something bad happened, you can simply stop them. I know we shouldn't and should try to persevere but tell yourself that you have options because feeling trapped by a situation can flare up our anxiety.
Thinking about your friends not contacting you enough could be part of the Cognitive Distortions we often experience through these disorders and this negative thinking gets more critical when we are anxious. Consider the evidence for things, think about past situations and how this measures up, etc so you don't generalise.
I would say I hope they get your motor sorted soon but that does mean going into work so its a no win there! :D
Thank you, that was an incredibly comforting message!! It is quite difficult to get comfort from others as I'm in that weird no man's land between recovery and illness where nobody knows quite what to do or say (including me!).
I'll post some pictures when I get home. I've now got a courtesy car, a 1.4 Corsa, which is actually good to drive in a reassuring, chunky, Vauxhall way. It's no match for my modified Peugeot 407 in a straight line though, I'm pottering about like an old love, and no doubt I'll be right at the front of a slow-moving queue of traffic on the back roads tomorrow!
MyNameIsTerry
24-04-15, 11:49
It could have been worse, it could have been a Meriva or maybe a Micra...the ultimate granny car!
Just don't go up any steep hills :winks::D
Hopefully you will feel a lot further forward soon when this new med kicks in and based on what she has said about the other girl, perhaps it will empower you to tackle the rest?
xvolatileheart
24-04-15, 12:30
Poet, you sure have a way with words. "Smoother than Ant McPartlin's slap" has me cracking up. :roflmao:
True, I asked for an Astra but they reckoned they only had their worst car, the Corsa, still available. EDIT: funny how that happens to me. "I'm sorry, sir, yes there is a rather nice car in the car park but it's someone else's. Here, why don't you try this pile of crap we can't get rid of?"
In fairness it's not too bad but the steering feels a bit dangerous, it over-corrects, it's like it's drunk or needs its tracking doing. I think the girl who worked there liked me because she kept talking to me while I was talking to another member of staff.
I took the first strattera dose 40 minute ago. I can tell you now, if it was cit or sert I'd have been notably more anxious by now. The only negative effect I can feel is my own nervousness which is due to anxiety, certainly not the medication itself.
If I get past the three hour mark without my mood taking a hit, I will probably be all right. (When I started taking methotrexate for arthritis, I began feeling anxious and nauseous - the two were definitely related - up to three hours after each dose.)
XVolatileHeart, I'm glad I picked it over my first choice, which was a part of Phil Mitchell's anatomy.
EDIT: 2-hour update. My anxiety is a bit higher but nothing like what it was on cit or sert. I've just phoned Samaritans to get some relief from the stress of my thoughts, and it helped a lot, as usual. If I was on cit I'd be quite ill by now. It feels like my thoughts are being "squeezed" gently from five channels into just one or two, my brain doesn't feel quite so hyperactive, but it could just be due to the reassuring chat. I certainly don't notice huge benefits yet, way too soon and way too low a dose, but unless this is my imagination, I do feel calmer already.
EDIT 3: I can no longer take a deep breath and physically relax my body... because it's already relaxed. Even my mood is starting to stabilise and actually improve. I haven't been on it three hours yet! I am starting to feel like a spring day, calm with birds singing and a gentle breeze blowing, rather than the hurricane I normally feel like.
Well, my first day on strattera is nearly over. Was it worth the wait, and did any of the dreaded side effects happen?
It looks like this medication might actually work for me. I've had no negative effects that I can tell, just an increase in anxiety from knowing I'd finally taken it. I certainly haven't experienced the horror show of SSRIs.
The medication helped calm me down physically and mentally. The effect lasted several hours, with the mental improvements starting to wear off after 4-5 hours. Just like wearing contact lenses, it looks like I'll have to get used to the meds, and hopefully they'll last a little bit longer each day.
There was no massive improvement in mental clarity but I definitely, definitely found there to be leas chaos and more relaxation. I was singing in the car without realising it. There was a very mild euphoric effect which has created a sense of love for strattera.
I was very outgoing today, chatting to people (and probably oversharing). I found I really liked everyone I met, and I even feel affection for this shitty Corsa. It's like a good, loving part of me has been released from a cage. My dad noticed how much better ive been towards him today, as we usually fall out a lot.
MyNameIsTerry
25-04-15, 05:07
Thats great news!
Also, remember the other girl. She said she didn't see too many improvements but her family said they did. So, perhaps you aren't fully aware of how much better you are at the start?
Why not keep a diary for this? Then you have something a bit more physical to track it.
I've been keeping track using OneNote on my phone. The strattera is definitely helping me. The effects are subtle, but they're there.
I felt about 10% of my normal morning anxiety, even though I woke at 5am from a fairly vivid dream (which was most certainly not an unpleasant one!). My thoughts don't seem to explode out of my brain. I've been sat at work quietly taking call after call without stressing, or any urgency to leave the building.
I feel more in touch with myself - like my thoughts and feelings are easier to understand. Again, this is subtle, but it's made a remarkable difference.
There have been no horrible thoughts or feelings, no surges of anxiety beyond what I'd normally experience. I feel a bit more sensible, a bit more mature, a lot more in control. No nausea, no shaking, although my previously overwhelming anxiety has changed to become a kind of inner tension, this is actually preferable to a sense of external threat.
Strattera has done more for me in 24 hours of its lowest dose than 30mg of mirt or cit did in years.
xvolatileheart
25-04-15, 17:18
Are you only on the Strattera at the moment?
I'm on mirtazapine, which I may be able to come off if this keeps working, plus some arthritis medication.
I have been EXTREMELY flirty at work. My friend was blushing bright crimson. I was able to look her in the eyes, rather than at her mouth (that's an aspie trait, we can't look people in the eyes). She even came to sit closer so I could look at the colour of her eyes. The whole thing was new to me.
I was definitely better at work, less restless, better able to sit and get on with the job. I've had a good day out with my mate. Generally I feel like my subconscious and the strattera are working well together, this is looking to be a good partnership. I can see why adhd meds are so highly recommended.
Who recommends the Strattera, NP? As an aspie isn't the double whammy of mirtazapine and the ADHD med quite a lot to handle? Can I ask how your ADHD presents?
It manifests in a number of ways. I can't focus for long periods without suffering ever-increasing anx and stress which develop into horrible intrusive thoughts. I am fidgety and restless. I think five things at once and hear repetitive parts of songs and music all the time. I'm easily distracted and struggle to multitask. I suffer from a racing brain and racing speech. I spend way too much money on silly things and am in high debt. * I also tend to run rings around people and this means people have to constantly be on top of their game to keep up or even understand me. This makes romantic relationships very difficult, as she has to be smarter than I am or we're doomed. (I don't mean to sound arrogant here, this is a serious problem for me.)
I'm having a blip! But it isn't caused by the strattera. In fact, I am considerably improved when it's working. My body fights the low dose off within about six to eight hours, and then I become chaotic again, but I'm learning to hold onto improvements made when it is working.
This blip was coming on before I started stratt. It relates to my fear of the grey, rainy weather that's coming, but also due to my fear of death, which I realise is more like a phobia. As the stratt improves me, it gives me a new perspective on my problems, a double edged sword, as I realise how far the negative thinking has truly got into me. I also realise now that I snap back into the worst blips after a period of happiness; this has always been obvious, but now it's becoming a problem that needs dealing with.
* As examples, I haven't got a house or children of my own, but I have got fifty-four Plaguebearers of Nurgle and the only Peugeot 407 in the world that's got TWO rear spoilers.
I've decided to re-start my therapy by going back to basics.
This blip has been horrible, but through self help and the higher level of insight and understanding I seem to be getting on stratt, I'm seriously wondering if most of my negative thoughts and beliefs stem from a fear of death that has become a morbid preoccupation, and that my main problems at this time are a fear of death and a fear of how I feel when anxious (fear of fear).
So in other words, I am creating my own fear and keeping it alive. All the dozens of negative thoughts and beliefs I've been battling may be quite minor, something I can fix in a few days or weeks, I'm just scared of their shadow.
I came to that conclusion a year or two ago but somehow forgot it. Finding it again seems further proof that it is true.
Bear in mind it's day four on stratt and I've handled a car accident, flirted more, developed a far better mindset at work, and now I'm wanting to reboot my therapy to bring this anxiety crashing down.
I had a massive blip the other night, but by talking it through with my therapist and the Samaritans, I am coming through it. I initially feared that I was having a negative reaction to the strattera, but this is not the case. There were reasons for the blip, and I think that I've got such a deep reservoir of repressed negative emotions - fear, anger, sadness, disappointment, confusion - that blips may actually be those emotions breaking through.
The stratt is making me more emotionally intelligent - I am getting better at dealing with other people and understanding their wants and needs. I'm getting far better at understanding my own thoughts and feelings, and while the stratt is working my anxiety and restlessness are noticeably reduced.
It's as if the stratt isn't just doing one thing, it isn't providing me with a single huge boost in one specific area. Instead it's as if it is treating my mind and body as a series of related systems, and is making small but intelligent improvements across the board, and while minor, these improvements work together so perfectly that they may be more beneficial than a single big change.
It's a bit like tuning a car: You can either fit a single massively powerful turbo, which improves straight line acceleration but won't improve the way the car responds and behaves in other areas, and may lead to problems later on, or you can make a raft of smaller upgrades to ensure optimum efficiency with what you've already got, which would improve the overall experience while being quite noticeable and increasing long-term reliability.
Update! My therapist has asked me if anyone around me has noticed a difference in me, so I asked my colleague Amy, who is one of my closest friends. She said "Yeah, you're not as annoying and your texts are nowhere near as long", not exactly a ringing endorsement, but recovery comes to those who take every opportunity they get, no matter how small :D
It's funny as well, because today I stepped up to 18mg and I feel more emotional. At first all the horrible fears about depression came back. But something about strattera has made me smarter, and I understand that this is just sadness caused by what I've been through. I'm more in touch with my emotions - I'm more complete.
So I let myself feel sad. And the anxiety raged, the thoughts about depression were there, but the sadness felt normal and healthy, not depressive or serious. It was like hearing the roars of a lion, but then from out of the tunnel emerges a friendly and curious tabby cat who seems surprised to see you.
And in some weird way, by allowing myself to feel sad, the sadness didn't get worse - it evaporated like morning mist, and now I feel calmer and more confident.
Next update. I've been on 18mg of strattera for 3 days with no unpleasant side effects; it's now day 10 on stratt. By this point on citalopram I was really quite ill, and I'd stopped taking sertraline within 10 days due to horrible side effects. What a difference, strattera is miles better for me!
I'm having my first "new therapy" session tomorrow and have made a plan of action. I'm going to use the Samaritans to vent if I'm feeling overwhelmed or under pressure. This should relieve enough stress to let me focus on one or two issues in each therapy session. Previously, my sessions would over-run because I was talking about so many things, and I was going away feeling relieved but without any idea of how to actually get better.
I've got a number of issues that seem urgent so tomorrow's session should hopefully lay the groundwork. My main problem is that despite the strattera, I am still obsessing about my negative thoughts and feelings, and it's become highly intrusive.
It got out of hand a couple of months ago when I found out my ex is seeing someone else. I thought I was coming through it, but I cannot settle for going back to my old life, I need to move forward, I need to beat this, and that need has created a kind of kick-back reaction from the anxiety.
So, there is much work to do, but at least this time I've got a plan to stick to.
This 18mg dose seems to suit me a lot better than 10mg when combined with self-help. In fact I was feeling so much better last night that I stayed up way too late - I actually got anxiety because my anxiety and intrusive thoughts were being muffled and I was feeling so much better!
The one downside is that I also take methotrexate for arthritis, and when I combine this with strattera, I tend to feel quite nauseous on a Monday morning, more so than I did before taking stratt. Fortunately I've got effective anti-nausea medication.
I've learned that the most debilitating aspect of my anxiety is that I don't "initiate" - in other words, start or continue tasks, approach people I don't know, do my hobbies and interests, etc. As we all know, occupying your mind is mandatory in the fight against anxiety, but because I don't initiate as much as I'd like, I spend too much time wallowing in anxiety and the frustration that comes from sitting back when you should be doing something.
EDIT: I'm actually doing so well that I am not really sure how to handle it! I've very rarely been as chilled out as this, it feels wonderful, but it feels weird.
I'm going to use the Samaritans to vent if I'm feeling overwhelmed or under pressure. This should relieve enough stress to let me focus on one or two issues in each therapy session.
The Samaritans give their time voluntarily for people who are on the edge - not for people to "vent" their stress. Do you not have any friends or family you can use for that purpose? Imagine if we all called the Samaritans to "vent". This isn't the first time you have mentioned calling the Samaritans in order to relieve "stress", and quite frankly, I think it's wrong, especially since you present no signs of depression and in fact go on to say you are doing so well you don't know how to handle it.
Hi, thanks for your opinion, being told that I'm in the wrong is exactly what I needed.
The Samaritans are not just there for people who are "on the edge", they're there to listen to people who need to talk, whatever the reason, particularly those who "don't know how to handle it". I can hardly share my darkest thoughts and feelings with my family or my friends - would I come here, or use the Samaritans, or attend therapy, if I could?
I'm guessing that my large number threads, my thousands of epic posts and the fact that I still need to come here for support which I do not always receive (as in your case), five years after I joined, haven't given you the hint that just maybe I am in a situation that I cannot get out of without extensive help?
But by all means, continue to take things out of context and end with a contradiction.
Yes, that is my opinion based on this thread and your glib references to ‘using’ the Samaritans to relieve stress. The Samaritans are there for crisis situations, not to release stress. Why are you different to the thousands of others on this site who suffer and struggle and don’t ‘use’ the Samaritans to vent their stress? You also say you have a therapist, so why would you need to ‘use’ the Samaritans? But by all means, come on here and vent your stress. Perhaps even reply to others who need help.
Finally, the contradiction is your own: you say that you’re so well you don’t know how to handle it while at the same time saying that you’re “in a situation that I cannot get out of without extensive help?” So which is it?
Good luck to you.
First of all, consider minding your manners. This is a support forum for people in distress. Your opinions are as valid as anyone else's, even if they are factually ignorant, but there is a place and a time to offer them. Someone less capable than myself might have a hard time receiving criticism. As it is, it's come as a shock at the wrong time.
Secondly, before challenging me, get your facts right. You don't understand what the Samaritans organisation is, what it does or who it's for. Nor do you apparently understand me, or my issues, or my reason for using the Samaritans. Recognise who you're dealing with. I don't do anything without a specific point, or without a plan towards recovery. I've come back from a lot further down than some people, and I know way more about what I'm doing than you seem to.
Thirdly, how other people choose to recover or suffer is not my concern, beyond an obvious desire to help them, nor is it yours. You've got no right to tell others how to recover or what support I can or cannot use, particularly when you don't even know what that support agency is for. If people choose not to use an obvious resource such as the Samaritans, that's their choice and their problem. If people in need cannot speak to the Samaritans, what's the point of the Samaritans?
Finally, drop the insulting bullshit. I have never treated anything about my severe anxiety, or my ADHD, or my autism, "glibly". I use every asset at my disposal to get better, because that's exactly what those assets are for. Ive given hundreds of hours to helping other people. In return, you've given my arse a headache. Your contradiction was in telling me in the same sentence that I am well and I can't handle it. Well congratulations - I CAN'T HANDLE IT - that's why I need the support.
And congratulations also for taking my progress diary off-track like this. If you don't like me phoning the Samaritans, tell the Prime Minister.
I was going to delete or modify my last post, but I'm not going to do that. This is a diary, after all, so maybe in a few months I'll re-read it and be glad of how far I've come from that.
I've decided to give No More Panic a miss for a while, as I am not really getting the support I need from it, and being trolled in my own recovery diary has made me realise how vulnerable I am making myself by sharing my problems and even my hopes.
I guess the problem with my situation is that I'm too far along for other people with anxiety to help me, but I'm still too anxious to be able to recover fully. So I'll be relying on professional support from now on.
'Trolled' now, is it? No, I was giving my opinion - something which you do all the time, albeit largely about yourself. I think you're a parasitic narcissist who uses this forum (and all other available resources it seems) as a platform for your own egocentric ends.
But don't let me hamper your progress as I'm just an 'ignorant troll' you see ;)
Did you get your psychology degree as the free gift in a cornflakes packet?
You've come onto a self-help and support website, crapping up my progress/recovery diary, haranguing a long-standing member who has never done anything to you, causing offence by the misuse of the word narcissistic (it's not that you called me it, it's because you keep using words you don't understand). Do you think I come here purely to help others, and that I don't need support myself? And do you think, equally, that I don't care about helping other people where I can?
I spent three years writing a self help guide which, to be fair, I could take down, re-work it and get it published, but I've never done that as I believe it should be free to everyone who wants to get better.
Every night I pray for my family, I pray to get better so I can help them and to be a better son, a better boyfriend and so forth. All of my self-help efforts are aimed at being a productive member of society. I am making every effort to live outside my own head and not be trapped in my autistic world. And you call me narcissistic?
Oh, by the way, I have been told by the Samaritans, and my uncle who I found out today works for the Samaritans, that I am exactly the kind of person who should call them, because I am in need and I can't always do it alone.
I'd call you a worthless, counter-productive, insulting, inconsequential speck of shit who doesn't need to exist, and whose parents (farmer and barnyard animal?) must be very proud... but that would be a little on the nose.
Oh, I thought you were giving us a break from your 'epic' crap for a while, but seem to be imploding all over the shop instead.
Oh the hostility and insults. To me, you're a smelly guff...a little puff of wind. Just the sort of behaviour I'd expect from NP (ie, Narcissistic Parasite) :D
I would like to sincerely apologise for my behaviour in the previous posts.
That is not who I am or who I want to be. I do not want anyone to feel devalued by anything that's been said. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts and feelings.
I'd like to respectfully "agree to disagree" on the points we've raised and go our separate ways from here on. This is my recovery diary and I intend to keep posting in it in the hope that it will help me and maybe even help other people who are going through similar things.
theharvestmouse
06-05-15, 17:46
Well done Poet, takes courage to admit to mistakes and apologise.
Thank you, that means a lot. It's been ages since we last spoke. Hope you've been well. How's your recovery going?
theharvestmouse
06-05-15, 19:37
It's going ok, not great but could be worse.
I'm gonna PM you about something that might be helpful to you, I need to get some details first.
---------- Post added at 21:14 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------
Right, let's get this show back on the road.
A recurring issue is getting overwhelmed, as I am three times disabled, not two (ADHD, autism and arthritis). I haven't been able to prioritise as my emotional difficulties pull me in opposite directions.
However, the strattera (and self-help) are enabling me to organise better, and while things can still get bad, in general I'm working my way through it. I am less anxious, less distressed, and while I'm still highly obsessive, I am starting to think outside of myself for the first time ever. This is really difficult as I am used to living in an aspie world. Autism makes the "real" world seem remote, frightening, hard to understand and difficult to access or stay in. I guess anyone who's been OCD, derealised or severely agoraphobic for a long time will have some idea what it's like.
A lot of the emotions I'm feeling are new to me - no longer jumbled up or nonsensical - it's like I've started a new life in a new body, and I'm having to get used to being able to feel proper, pure emotions. In therapy, we talked about real-life issues (rather than anxiety etc) in an organised and coherent fashion, which brought great stability and a sense of relief. My therapist is pleased with my progress.
I have become more social and have been invited out tomorrow; my friends really do seem to be there when I need them. Hell, I even had a very good conversation with my ex which brought great calmness to me.
I'm getting paranoid about this thread, it's had 300 views since yesterday lunchtime and only Harvestmouse has had anything to say. I know my posts can be long and complicated, that's kind of a given for an aspie, but it would be nice to get people chiming in now and then.
That said, I'm definitely still improving, and I am slowly starting to rely more on friends and family, rather than bottling things up which causes me to blip. Ive got this new urge to go out, do things and see the world, and only the anxiety is stopping me.
MyNameIsTerry
08-05-15, 05:09
NoPoet,
I think the exchange of words is partly the reason for the increased viewing numbers. Also, I have noticed that if you have a discussion going with post after post in a short time, it does get a lot more views than normal.
Given the exchange of words, people may have decided to stay out of it rather than risk making it worse and to be honest, the admins would need to be the ones dealing with that anyway.
I'm glad you are improving. Just think how concerned you were about taking a new medication. Sometimes taking chances is really worth it!
As the parent of 2 adults on the autistic spectrum I know that you will be sensitive to certain issues so I have kept out of this thread. I will say that you do appear to have a lot of support so using the Samaritans to "vent" is uncalled for and unnecessary in my opinion.
Having said this I do appreciate that life can be challenging. You do have a job, however, and access to therapy and consultants. Many on the autistic spectrum would be in awe of that. I wish you well with the Strattera.
I'm frankly shocked that people feel I should not be using the Samaritans when they are an organisation that helps people in distress. If I'm autistic, with ADHD, severe arthritis, generalised anxiety disorder and dysthymia, all officially diagnosed, and I'm doing something wrong by needing the Samaritans... well, I wonder what needs to be wrong with someone to be able to call them. I guess you're saying I'm weak?
I don't think people understand what the Samaritans are for and I don't think people understand me. I've started to doubt myself, the worst possible thing. All I can say is, I really can't be suicidal or I would have acted on it this week.
I guess I really do need to think whether coming here is worth it, as NMP is certainly not helping - I've actually got worse this week because of it. So much for the "lots of support" I'm apparently getting from somewhere.
MyNameIsTerry
08-05-15, 10:31
NoPoet,
I would suggest thinking about it because I've seen a fair few people have an argument at some point on here and then state they wish to leave and I just see it as an avenue they close off that could help them.
We all have some disagreements or even arguments on here, I've had a few, and if I'm honest there have been a few times when I've thought I can't be bothered but the reality is there is a lot of help on here so why close the avenue off?
Your diary must be helping you on some level or you wouldn't be motivated to keep it up.
If you truly don't believe this place is for you, thats cool too and its your decision, but think about it first and let the heat go because we sometimes jump and regret things later.
I don't believe Pulisa is calling you weak.
You call the samaritans as much as you need to nopoet. That's what they are there for in my opinion. I can't understand why people feel the need to complain about it
Terry, it's not so much the argument, although that did teach me a few important things about myself as much as NMP.
I just don't think I want to belong to a support forum where people tell you that you're wrong for trying to recover or getting support, and I honestly don't think people understand me at all. (I mean, I've only been a member for six years, it's not like there's been time.) I have started to worry about how I'm coming across and I'm certainly not wanting to share much else at this point.
Sands, thank you.
MyNameIsTerry
08-05-15, 11:01
You have been coming across fine. I realise that's always a concern for you but from my viewpoint I just see someone talking about their problems and how they are dealing with them. Your posts are often longer than most people but look at mine, I often post a load as well, so I just see someone who likes to get the detail in.
And what you've just said about whether you want to stay here is very similar to others that I have seen. I always just hope they don't regret it because there is a lot of good on here.
Whatever your decision, I wish you all the best for the future but I hope you will stay.
Terry, thank you, there's great stability in what you say. I will consider my next move carefully.
Having these new emotions is as bad as it is good, because I don't know how to control them yet. The medication is making me look outside myself and I think I may simply be better off living in the real world, getting support from my therapist and Samaritans when things get bad, and spending more time with friends and family the rest of the time, as I am starting to become ready to socialise. I guess I can only recover by spending time around people who don't have disorders or diagnoses - maybe love and friendship are the cure, instead of medication and self analysis.
---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 ----------
Right, here's how it stands. I've had an emergency session with my therapist and explained what's happened on NMP, including my own behaviour.
She's advised me to consider coming away from the internet altogether as it has probably made me worse rather than better: my issues tend to need specialist help, I've had very bad advice re the Samaritans and it is too difficult to gauge how I'm coming across due to my Asperger traits.
I've decided to stick with therapy to actually resolve problems, use the Samaritans during times when I cannot cope on my own, and I've now got several friends to turn to if I need advice or support, which is also helping with my social life.
So I'll take a leave of absence from NMP, but I will say to anyone reading this: If you need support, if you can't cope, if you're feeling out of control and you can't talk to anyone, please ring the Samaritans, and don't let people bullshit you into thinking you're wrong to do so. It's what the Samaritans are there for.
I'm certainly not calling you "weak", No Poet. You have access to a therapist and medical professionals and your therapist can see you very quickly if needed. In that aspect you are fortunate.
I wish you well and think that you should do what you think best for your future progress. Other people are entitled to have their opinions however. Of course people in distress should call the Samaritans whenever they need help. The way you described using them didn't come across very well though. The Samaritans volunteers deserve to be treated with respect as I'm sure you appreciate.
So I'll take a leave of absence from NMP, but I will say to anyone reading this: If you need support, if you can't cope, if you're feeling out of control and you can't talk to anyone, please ring the Samaritans, and don't let people bullshit you into thinking you're wrong to do so. It's what the Samaritans are there for.
I don't make a habit of discouraging anyone in a crisis situation from calling the Samaritans - and people are free to do whatever they choose. I know the Samaritans wouldn't turn anyone away - it's not in their nature. Also, I know there are no 'guidelines' or 'rules' when it comes to asking for help. That has to be left to someone's own conscience (or lack of). But as a voluntary org they are there for crisis situations - not some kind of stress ball for 'venting'. That was my original point and opinion and I still stand by that - no matter what anyone else may say. Each to their own...
You were very glib with regard to using the Samaritan,s Poet.
I have read through a lot of your previous posts, and see on more than one occasion they put the phone down on you. That really is not something to be proud of.
This makes me think you do use them to vent your frustrations, rather than use them for the purpose they are there for.
A lot of people use forums like this far too much and you are a prime example of how damaging this can be for certain types.
Being obsessive like you are is only feeding the Anxiety by coming on here talking about your probs. After 6 years I honestly think you could have made friendships for support by now.:shrug:
One minute you are saying you are too far ahead for anyone to help you on here, the next you are paranoid only one member has answered you.
Maybe some of them including me think you come across a tad arrogant and only want good things said.
Ego can be a bad thing.
Not everyone is going to agree with you ,or your course of action.
But that's up to you.
This is the hardest thing I've ever had to write. Please excuse the word count.
I want to thank everyone for being honest and saying what they felt needed to be said. I have learned a great deal from it, and this is a painful lesson I do not intend to forget.
I have never knowingly treated anyone or any organisation with disrespect. I have never viewed the people who've helped me in a "glib" fashion - the very idea is appalling to me.
I have been warned over the years that I can sound arrogant or aloof at times. In real life, I have people I can go to if I need to check how I'm coming across. I don't have anyone to do that online. This is something I have never been able to do for myself because, well, I'm autistic. We don't know how we come across. But I am making no excuses. This is my apology for the times I have hurt or upset people.
I have never, never had the Samaritans "hang up" on me because I was wasting their time. There was one particular woman with an unpleasant attitude who did not listen to me at all and even talked over me to ask if I was suicidal, while I was still talking. I made a complaint about her which was upheld, but I told them not to take further.
I have had Samaritans indicate that I'd been talking for a while and was starting to repeat myself. Embarrassing, but I get carried away. This has happened about 4 times in the last six years. That's actually not bad for someone with ADHD; meet someone with it and get them talking about something they care about. Then remember me.
I have never had a Samaritan accuse me of wasting their time. I have talked with Samaritans about using them to talk when I need to "vent" due to my explosive and painful emotions, and I was told on three occasions in the last three weeks that I must - not "should" - call them if I get so wound up and upset again.
Finally, I felt at first like my own family has turned against me, but as someone points out, that's precisely my problem. NMP is not my family and we are not friends. We are people working towards recovery. And I've been treading water. So now it's time to finally venture out into the world and practice what I've learned.
Thank you for helping me realise it's finally time to fly the nest, and once again, thank you for respecting me enough to be honest with me.
Good luck to all of you. Come and visit me on that sunny day when you're finally recovered, and we'll drink to our own success.
NoPoet
Adam
I really wish you well Adam. It is very hard to interpret emotions as an aspie in the real world let alone online when there are no clues...I do appreciate how challenging life can be for you and how hard it is to deal with life when no one has written a rule book to follow.
I think that your therapist is right in that you should pursue your recovery in the real world as opposed to online. Starting a new med is also a time when you could be at your most vulnerable so maybe let a few weeks go by and see how you feel about NMP then? I don't think it's helpful to be too self-analytical but that's just my opinion.
Wishing you all the best
Hi Adam I don't know if you will ever see this post as you may or may not use Nmp again I just wanted to say thank you You helped me many times during my Journey over the past 5 years and for your guide both me and MANY people will always be grateful I wish you and everyone Health Happiness and peace of mind both for now and the Future
Ken
Thanks for all the help Adam I joined in 2009, and though I don't post or visit that often I do remember your posts as they always helped me I really hope you are well. Take care and all the very best for the future
Jim
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