Started drinking...

[jacjacjac0_5]

I can't believe I'm posting this. I felt so positive last night after posting here and with the responses I received.

I've basically had a recurring sore throat and a feeling of something stuck in my throat for 4 months. It's driving me insane.

My main fears have been LPR (a form of reflux which by all accounts is incurable) and tonsil cancer. I've recently found that I have tonsil stones which is likely the cause of my problems but today my throat has been so sore and I've made it worse by prodding my left tonsil to try to dislodge any stones that I can't see back there.

So of course I consulted Dr Google and have found out that tonsil stones and rhinitis (which I have) can be caused by LPR. The dreaded incurable LPR which people are suicidal about.

I've literally had enough, I don't know what else to do which is why I've just downed two glasses of wine (not really excessive I know, but I hardly ever drink so this is a lot for me). I'm so frightened I'm going to have to live with this sodding throat problem for the rest of my puff.

I need help. I'm a wreck. What makes an otherwise intelligent, normal person obsess about they're health as I do? I've made progress I think, I only freak out when I have real symptoms... As opposed to creating them, but this can't continue. I'm a grown woman for crying out loud.

Someone please help

J x

[Gary A]

LPR would be a nuisance, but it's hardly a death sentence. In saying that, why oh why would you have to assume that there's more to this than simple tonsil stones? You have a diagnosis, but it seems to me that you won't really be happy until something catastrophic is attached. Maybe you need an explanation that makes sense or something, but tonsil stones are a pain, they can and do create the symptoms you have. Again I'll reiterate the same point I would to anyone like you, and that is if you're worried then speak to your doctor. However, I genuinely believe you have a reasonable explanation for your symptoms and are in fact being poisoned by anxiety.

You have admitted yourself you're making it worse by poking and prodding, which in fact is likely to give you a throat infection, so first off stop that. Remember what I advised yesterday. Even just for a couple of minutes a day, focus your attention on the sensation on the other side of your throat and notice how uncomfortable it becomes. I'll bet that if you had something important to do that required your whole attention you wouldn't even notice this sore throat feeling. I'll bet even more that in a few months, you won't even be thinking about this and therefore won't feel what you are just now.

[Fishmanpa]

Jac,

Please listen. Anxiety causes REAL PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS! Do a search on reflux and there are literally 10's of thousands of posts!

Gastrointestinal symptoms which go from chest pain to poo issues to you name it are prevalent on the boards.

Stress causes physical reactions and symptoms. It's Fact! I don't have HA but I do suffer from GAD ("scanxiety") and I have had physical symptoms caused by it. If it weren't for this forum, I would have thought they were more serious. So, I sought therapy (for depression and GAD) and have "chill pill" when things get a little rough.

It's been my experience that drinking, while the short term effects may seem beneficial, the aftermath is a BIG negative. I can't count the number of threads that prove that "anxiety and drinking don't mix"!

Print out your threads and take them to your GP. Get a referral for counseling. Don't fear meds if even for the short term. If you're fearing SSRIs (which so many here on the boards take), there are non SSRIs (which I have) that may be beneficial in quelling the negative thoughts and obsessive thinking that are indicative of HA and GAD.

Read the SYMPTOMS (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/articles/symptoms)link here on the site. It explains so many of the physical issues many experience due to anxiety. If you're in the right state of mind, it should help you.

Positive thoughts

[MyNameIsTerry]

It's been my experience that drinking, while the short term effects may seem beneficial, the aftermath is a BIG negative. I can't count the number of threads that prove that "anxiety and drinking don't mix"!



I think we have to be balanced about this. The recent threads I has seen over the past few months had as many people saying alcohol didn't affect them as those that said it did. And people don't raise threads to state that alcohol caused them no issues. Thats anecdotal proof and there is the same to prove otherwise.

Alcohol "could" make your anxiety worse. This is because it will cause physical sensations due to your body getting rid of it. This also occurs when the liver is overworked with toxins to clear out e.g. in treatment of Candida overgrowth know as "die off". The problem tends to be the sensitivity of the person to physical sensations and their overreaction hence the same can be seen in other substances or even when eating certain types of foods, taking vitamin B, etc. I've had many a hangover before my anxiety, now I don't chance it but not because of anxiety but how I will react to how it feels as it will attempt to link it to my anxiety symptoms.

Of course, when it comes to medication there are some antidepressants that state you cannot take alcohol. There are also general warnings issued but these are also on many medications. I know my SNRI, for instance, only states alcohol to be used with caution whilst assessing the impact.

I fully agree though that we need to discourage use of alcohol as a form of self medication. In this case, its 2 glasses of wine in someone that doesn't drink much so as long as they don't start to use this as a way of controlling anxiety, they should be ok.

[Serenity1990]

I think we have to be balanced about this. The recent threads I has seen over the past few months had as many people saying alcohol didn't affect them as those that said it did. And people don't raise threads to state that alcohol caused them no issues. Thats anecdotal proof and there is the same to prove otherwise.

Alcohol "could" make your anxiety worse. This is because it will cause physical sensations due to your body getting rid of it. This also occurs when the liver is overworked with toxins to clear out e.g. in treatment of Candida overgrowth know as "die off". The problem tends to be the sensitivity of the person to physical sensations and their overreaction hence the same can be seen in other substances or even when eating certain types of foods, taking vitamin B, etc. I've had many a hangover before my anxiety, now I don't chance it but not because of anxiety but how I will react to how it feels as it will attempt to link it to my anxiety symptoms.

Of course, when it comes to medication there are some antidepressants that state you cannot take alcohol. There are also general warnings issued but these are also on many medications. I know my SNRI, for instance, only states alcohol to be used with caution whilst assessing the impact.

I fully agree though that we need to discourage use of alcohol as a form of self medication. In this case, its 2 glasses of wine in someone that doesn't drink much so as long as they don't start to use this as a way of controlling anxiety, they should be ok.

I echo this. I strongly disagree with some of the sentiments on here that alcohol is invariably negative. There have been times where it has been of enormous help to me, and I do not have anything even approaching a problem with drink.

[Fishmanpa]

I echo this. I strongly disagree with some of the sentiments on here that alcohol is invariably negative. There have been times where it has been of enormous help to me, and I do not have anything even approaching a problem with drink.

Look, if you can handle it and it doesn't cause you an issue, great... no arguments from me.

BUT... if you're drinking and then posting the next day about how miserable you feel and that it must be something more serious or your anxiety is through the roof or you're retching etc. etc. etc. then I'll call you on it. Is it any different than fearing cancer or heart disease and smoking or any other detrimental behavior that can cause you to realize the very thing you fear?

Let's face reality here! Those that have anxiety, depression, OCD and the like have been known to have a pre-disposition to addictions.

If you're taking meds, you should avoid it all together. I don't know of one psychotropic that doesn't advise against it. Even if it's advised to "use with caution". That means "Be careful! This could F^%$ you up!" One should handle fire, guns or other potentially dangerous items and situations with caution and many do safely every day. That being said, it only takes one time to get burned.

Positive thoughts

[Serenity1990]

There is certainly a strong correlation between depression/anxiety and addictions, though the direction of causality in that correlation, if even direct, is far from unambiguous.

Hey, I'm not saying everyone should go out and drink and it'll solve anything, it won't. However there has been a number of occasions where I have had a few beers with friends and it's relaxed me such that some of my more permanent symptoms have disappeared. There are far worse symptoms in human medicine that are possible than those that I experience, and they aren't all of anxiety, but nonetheless they can really affect my everyday life. This relief from them, however temporary and occasional, is really important to me.

[MyNameIsTerry]

But the OP never stated that their alcohol consumption spiked their anxiety. It appeared to me that the OP was more upset at struggling to see a way forward and was disappointed in herself for having 2 glasses of wine. I think we can all understand where she is coming from because this can be very overwhelming and we all go through countless times where we just can't see a way out.

If osmeone if posting about alcohol making them feel worse, then its worth explaining that it could be the impact of the alcohol. It is a little different to smoking since we have had public awareness campaigns rammed down our thoughts for years about it, but I'm yet to see anything about the impact of any substance on anxiety in people with anxiety disorder. I'm yet to see anything about anxiety disorders at all other than anti stigma campaigns. So, many people may not be aware that alcohol can be a problem until they research their disorders or experience a problem and come on here to be told otherwise. I had no clue half the things I was doing were OCD 4 years ago, then I joined here and did my research. Lets face it, sugar, caffeine, vitamin B, etc can all cause anxiety symptoms but I'm doubtful whether our GP's are telling us this...they are quick appointments over here for a start.

But statistics that show %'s of a demographic are not classed as the bottom line. Its the link between the groups in question and the issue that is. If we lived by statistics we wouldn't be able to leave our houses in fear of our safety from crime & accidents for a start! I also am not aware of the medical world telling us that we are at risk of addiction, but they do advise against use of alcohol in general.

In fact, this is what our NHS actually says about drinking alcolol on their anxiety self help webpage http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Anxiety/Pages/self-help.aspx

Avoid smoking and drinking
Smoking and alcohol have been shown to make feelings of anxiety worse. Only drinking alcohol in moderation or stopping smoking if you smoke may help reduce your anxiety.
The Department of Health recommends that men should not drink more than three to four units of alcohol a day and women no more than two to three units.

So, they don't appear to be saying its a must to stop.

Ok, well the medication I am on, Duloxetine or Cymbalta, is classed a psychotropic.

According to the Patient Information Leaflet (PIL) in the box by Eli Lilly, it states "Care should be taken if you drink alcohol while you are being treated with Cymbalta".

Here is one of their guides http://pi.lilly.com/us/Cymbalta-Medguide.pdf which states "Use of Cymbalta concomitantly with heavy alcohol intake may be associated with severe liver
injury. Avoid heavy alcohol use while taking Cymbalta."

So, they advise against it because of the link to severe livver injury. I understand this came about because it happened prior to this warning being added.

So, now you know of one psychotropic medication that doesn't advise against it. Have you checked them all? I know some do make it known because there are proven interactions but unless you have checked them all you are making a generalisation.

Use with caution can also mean until you understand how it affects you which can be seen in the same medical leaflet online posted above from Eli Lilly where it says "Cymbalta can cause sleepiness or may affect your ability to make decisions, think clearly, or
react quickly. You should not drive, operate heavy machinery, or do other dangerous
activities until you know how Cymbalta affects you."

Did you know that Citalopram has been used in a study in treatment of alcoholics? Thats a psychotropic medication and it was used to demonstrate a reduction in intake and alcohol free days. So, they were drinking, albeit under medical supervision. So, it can't have a strict interaction surely? To be fair though, the PIL does state to not take alcohol, unlike Duloxetine.

I did drink whilst on holiday for the best part of a week after asking my GP, who advised moderate would be ok, and I was fine with it. As I always say though, I haven't drunk alcohol in years other than in a food dish.

Perhaps the difference is, drinking alcohol once won't make you an alcoholic, so its not compareable to the other examples.

I just believe we need to give balanced advice.

[Fishmanpa]

MNIT,

As I said previously. If YOU can have alcohol and it doesn't affect YOU then more power to you. This seems to be more about YOUR habits and usage and I have NO issue with that. It's YOUR life, YOUR choice. If YOU and any other on Cymbalta want to have a drink, great! It's still not recommended and what you didn't state is that those with depression and taking it could very well experience a more pronounced depression as well as increase the possibilities of drug side effects! This especially holds true concerning every other psychotropic of drug (and no, I didn't check every one).

There's a preponderance of evidence to support my statements. The OP's initial post spoke about a frustration level that drove her to drink two glasses of wine. Not an alcoholic or habit by any means but something that made enough of an impact to post about it and for many with digestive issues, alcohol only exasperates the issues.

The reality is, there really is no "balance" concerning this subject. For people suffering, in many cases some pretty severe anxiety, depression, OCD and other maladies related to it and many on medication, it's not a good thing.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Positive thoughts

[MyNameIsTerry]

Of course drinking alcohol is never recommended, we don't expect doctors to be telling us we should be drinking. However, they will tell us when we shouldn't.

Our National Health Service (NHS), thats all our public doctors & nurses in the UK, have their website stating that moderation is allowed and they wouldn't state that if it was incorrect as all their advice is evidence based unless they state otherwise.

Where exactly does it state about depression could be made worse by drinking whilst taking Duloxetine? It doesn't state that in my PIL or on the leaflet I posted the link to. It only states what I said that either caution is required until impact is assessed or not to drink heavily due to the potential for serious liver damage.

Lets not forget that the FDA in your country have approved it for treatment of Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) and our medical licencing body, the MHRA. As part of that they would be ensuring that PIL's are accurate on top of reviewing the clinical trials. It seems that both the FDA and MHRA have missed something in allowing Eli Lilly not to warn against it? That doesn't make sense given the legal backlash they would face. So, where have you seen that because no one is making Eli Lilly update the PIL? If this is the result of clinical research then we need to understand why the FDA & MHRA (plus our NHS) don't recognise it as valid. Could it be because there was no link established? Or maybe the research conditions were not considered sufficent as happens when many a study is debunked by later peer reviews & meta-analysis? Thats only speculation though.

That is also discussing a seperate disorder in threads concerned with anxiety. If we expand out for depression then we need to add in bipolar, schizophrenia, ADHD, epilsepy, neuropathic pain disorders, etc that these medications can be prescribed for.

I also can't see how you can speculate about the impacts of all other psychotropic medications on depression or anxiety without learning about them first which you state has not been the case. Its purely an assumption based on anecdotal evidence on here and own knowledge/experience but that can't be expanded out to every medication and every individual.

Of course there is balance. You simple mention both sides and not purely mention that alcohol & anxiety don't mix which is a biased viewpoint. Its also not evidence to use anecdotal posts on here let alone forgetting to mention the people who have not found it bad for anxiety. Its balance to mention both sides.

What if I post that alcohol doesn't cause any issues for people with anxiety disorders? That would be the opposite side of the argument and everyone would be completey correct in challenging this biased view. I could also say the opposite to you by saying there plenty of posts on here by people saying it doesn't affect them. That would be wrong. Why? Because I should be saying both sides to be fair.

Its the same as the people who state medication is wrong and does not help.

I respect your right to an opinion, but I have posted evidence on here including the view of our doctors which back my point. You haven't provided evidence, only stated that it exists. In truth, I have seen recent threads and they also include evidence against your statements which should you have acknowledged later in these comments but not on previous threads where I have made the same challenge (you may not have seen my later posts though).

Its also an assumption regarding digestive issues. Digestive issues taking us back into other triggers with food & drink as well.

In terms of your comments regarding "This seems to be more about YOUR habits and usage" that pure assumption. I just see someone presenting a biased view and challenge it, it tends to be how forums work. You seem to suggest I have an agenda which is not the case, I just believe in fairness & openess. I have nothing to gain out of this afterall.

I'm not sure I appreciate the emphasis on "my habits" but I will choose to ignore what could be interpreted as a possible slur. Its easy to misinterpret the written word. As I have explained a few times, I have not used alcohol much at all and so I will explain this in more detail to show what my "habits" have been to avoid further assumptions & speculation.

In the 8-9 years I have suffered from anxiety, my first instance of alcohol was 12 months after it started when I was returning to work. I wanted to have a few beers over Xmas, 2-3 for a couple of nights as a bit of a one off. I asked my GP first because I was on Citalopram and he stated moderation would be ok. I suspect if my condition had been much worse, he would have advised against it which I fully agree with.

I next had some when I went on holiday about 18 months later. This was for about a week each night, some glasses of wine.

After this I had nothing and still haven't.

So, as you can see, I rarely touch alcohol thus I have no agenda in pushing using it for any reason.

I don't need to explain that to anyone but I thought its worth mentioning in further detail so there are no further assumptions made over my "habits".

---------- Post added at 07:28 ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 ----------


I can't believe I'm posting this. I felt so positive last night after posting here and with the responses I received.

I've basically had a recurring sore throat and a feeling of something stuck in my throat for 4 months. It's driving me insane.

My main fears have been LPR (a form of reflux which by all accounts is incurable) and tonsil cancer. I've recently found that I have tonsil stones which is likely the cause of my problems but today my throat has been so sore and I've made it worse by prodding my left tonsil to try to dislodge any stones that I can't see back there.

So of course I consulted Dr Google and have found out that tonsil stones and rhinitis (which I have) can be caused by LPR. The dreaded incurable LPR which people are suicidal about.

I've literally had enough, I don't know what else to do which is why I've just downed two glasses of wine (not really excessive I know, but I hardly ever drink so this is a lot for me). I'm so frightened I'm going to have to live with this sodding throat problem for the rest of my puff.

I need help. I'm a wreck. What makes an otherwise intelligent, normal person obsess about they're health as I do? I've made progress I think, I only freak out when I have real symptoms... As opposed to creating them, but this can't continue. I'm a grown woman for crying out loud.

Someone please help

J x

I wanted to say sorry as I have appeared to have hijacked your thread a bit over the alcohol issue.

I agree with FMP that you should approach your GP about this. They can get you a referral into therapy which will help you to tackle this anxiety.

Please don't be too hard on yourself, these disorders take many of us to the brink of despair. Its all about retraining your subconscious to stop sending these invalid thoughts to your conscious mind, whether that comes from pure acceptance or a combination of strategies.

As you have said, you have made progress already and you should be proud of that. Its normal to feel frustration and despair over these disorders and it comes & goes. I've been there plenty of times myself over the years but I know now that it can get better as I am far better than I was a few years ago when I relapsed.

Its hard work and it can take time, as you already know, but you can do it. You've already proved that you can by cutting out creating your own symptoms. Think back to earlier, when you couldn't do that and I'll bet you never thought you would be able to do this, by stopping creating new symptoms.