View Full Version : waking early happning again whats going on
I dont know whats going on with me,but a week ago i had some major stress removed from my life thats been hanging over me for months.i thought when this was removed id feel happier ,but i dont...the thing is for months while iv had this isue causing this massive stress ,i was sleeping 8-10 hrs every night..well now this stress has been removed a week ago,im waking around 6-7 am instead of 9-10 onwards...whats happend i thought id sleep longer and better now this stress has been removed from my life.instead im sleeping less..dsnt make any sence to me..
Going through the exact same thing a the moment Gregg, doesnt matter how late I go to bed, I am waking at 6.00am on the dot, no idea why, but its really annoying!
Sunflower2
05-04-15, 18:35
I had this around the same time last year except it was 5am! I put it down to the lighter morning and then also because once we get into a pattern it's hard to break.
Well for me i dont understand it because as i say,i had a major stress hanging over me for months,but unlike most people that have tons of stress,i actually was sleeping very well,so now this cloud that was hanging over me has gone,im sudenly wakeing early each day ,i thought if anything,now im more relaxed id sleep even better,not wake early..is it poss the stress being lifted has made me more alert and less tired..i have black out blinds in my bedroom,so the light isnt a problem for me
Okay guys the stress is gone, but not the memory, you can't erase the memory. Subconsciously you are looking for the stress. What can you do to convince your memory it is really gone and to let it go. If you do nothing it will pass in time, memory works like that. The stress must have been really bad.
Davit.you hit the nail on the head..i cant go into what it was,but it was huge and has been with me for two solid years.now its been lifted(gone) but as you say,my mind is still waiting and looking for that stress because it was with me for such a long time..i still find it hard to believe its gone out of my life.i still keep looking for a reason why it might come back..wish i can turn this off
It will pass with time, mine did. This is like PTSD. The answer seems to be saying to yourself "I dealt with it, I can do it again". I did that every time I had to go to hospital. It helped. I'd get out with artificial knees or a broken leg and couldn't sleep thinking about next time.
I see what your saying davit..i guess i just need to give it time
MyNameIsTerry
05-04-15, 21:54
You recently experimented with reducing a medication that is linked to sleep Greg so it could be something that is not really connected to that major stress and will adjust again.
Did this start before then, during or after.
If just sticks out to me because you said the major stress factor wasn't causing you sleep problems before and I recall how they medication adjustment sparked greater anxiety for you.
I think you are right terry.its my 5mg olanzipine i was on at night.i cut it down to 2.5mg a week ago.and to be honest,i feel less anxious for it..im going to give it a week and then cut out the rest..iv allways felt that i was more anxious on this drug..i feel a bit more clear headed for it..so hopefully when i cut it right out i can start cutting down on my other meds..200mg trazadone..and get off that and see how i feel.i think i need a job and a life and that may sort things out for me
MyNameIsTerry
05-04-15, 22:23
I thought you had cut down on the traz, Greg?
I did mate for a couple of days,then decided to stop and go back to norm dose.i felt a bit more depressed..ill come off the olanzipine first then focus on the trazadone.i want to be drug free if poss
MyNameIsTerry
05-04-15, 23:10
I'm thinking that because I see people on here talking about using traz for insomnia, that reduction you tried might have messed you about a bit so maybe this sleep will right itself as the traz balances back out. I've read that it takes so many half lives of a drug to get it balanced, I can't remember offhand, so I'm thinking that you could be experiencing the effects some have when they reduce & reinstate a dosage. If so after X half lives it should go back to normal hopefully.
Thanks terry.i hope so..i think it might be the olanzipine that i have reduced..that has a sedetive in it..i only cut the traz for a couple of days and my sleep has changed since a week ago since i cut back on the olanzipine..im determin to come off it all.im convinced the traz and olanzipine have made me worse since being on them all and i have just got used to its outcome of taking them both..i want to be drug free,although i have a appt with the mental health in two weeks and they want to review my meds so will prob want me off the lot and try something eles
MyNameIsTerry
06-04-15, 06:03
One thing to remember Greg is that you are still getting a decent amount of sleep. I've been there with an obsession over the number of hours and I can tell you that you can get by. Due to my other issues with routine, I live on about 5 hours a night or less now when I would normally need about 7. I'm tired a fair bit yes, and it won'y be helping me getting too little every day for the last 9 months or so, but I can function and get on with things.
So, whilst its a problem I need to correct, it has taught me a lesson about how more resielient I am because lack of sleep used to make me crash before.
5 hrs terry..gosh thats not a lot mate.still as you say,you are getting by on it ,which is good.hopefully you can turn it around somehow mate.its not nice only getting a few hrs sleep.at the hight of my bad insimnia,which lasted for months,i was only getting three hrs broken sleep each night.i spent many hrs awake in my front room or lieing in my bed.i hated those days..now the problem i have now is,coming off olanzipine is def efecting my sleep.last night again i only got about 6 hrs briken sleep.so its def these tablets that was keeping me asleep.which meens my trazadone is doing sod all for my sleep,even on the high dose that im on..so what do i do now because i feel less anxious after cutting down olanzipine and will prob feel even better when i cut it out completley..but i will prob wake even earlier which will make me more depressed as iv been used to 9-10 hrs sleep for months,so i dont know what to do.contunue dropping this med for good,or get back in the full dose..
MyNameIsTerry
06-04-15, 10:27
Perhaps its worth waiting and discussing this with the team you are seeing? Maybe they can give you another solution with a medication to bridge the gap? A bit like how one drug is used to withdraw from another? I don't know, but they might be able to give you options we can't.
Honestly mate, I don't envy you. Sleep was a big trigger for me back in my worse periods and I know how my reaction was to it so I know its going to be tough. I can remember struggling to get to sleep for hours and then even worse the waking early with anxiety which was the one that did me in for the relapse.
You will adjust, its just a rocky one at first. I was the same coming off Zopiclone, although my sleep was better than yours was and my insomnia was caused by going onto Citalopram.
I would suggest looking at you sleep hygiene and trying relaxation methods. I seem to recall you were looking for some downloads so go ahead with that because perhaps you can use those to help you fall back asleep? You can get things like white noise to help you sleep.
I seem to recall something about meditation having a similiar effect as sleep in repair for the body and I keep meaning to look it up. I spotted it in a mag and I couldn't find it again to find the article/study on it.
I got those relaxation tracks from you tube mate.i dont need them to fall to sleep,i dont have a problem there,its when i wake up early mate..and iv noticed also now when i wake early and try to drift off again,i am now getting head zaps just as im drifting off,which stresses me as its not plesant,so this stops me falling back to sleep..i just remember those nights of insomnia,it felt like i was stuck with it forever as it was a side effect from going on my thyroid meds.so i needed something to help me sleep.thats when trazadone came in,that soon stoped working so my dose was uped and uped till i was on 250mg at one point,but my sleep still wasnt great.then olanzipine was to help with my DP AND DR which it did nothing for me apart from make me feel worse but my sleep was amazing..bloody meds mate they skrew you up one way or another.im going to continue coming off olanzipine because i know my team is going to want me off it to try something new.then i will be taken off trazadone as its a old anti depressant and only realy used nowadays for sleep..but im sure since iv been on both these meds i have allways felt worse
MyNameIsTerry
06-04-15, 10:57
Head zaps, eh? That does sound like a withdrawal symptom then. You get them withdrawing from loads of these meds.
It does sound more like the olanzapine was more successful than than the traz. If the traz never did much, it sounds like its not the med for you and maybe something else will work, so there is still hope there.
Insomnia is a nasty one. Its not just about feeling rough as non insomnia sufferers believe because those levels of sleep are very important for keeping you healthy and processing the days events. You can't imagine how it feels to live in that daze and for me mine was very mild by comparison.
Can you remember that experiment they did on channel 4 years ago about sleep deprivation? I can remember one of the guys not really knowing who he was at one point. Sleep deprivation is afterall an old method of torture.
I know what you mean about meds. I wish I could be free of them but I know I would sink a lot and accept I need to make a fuller recovery this time rather than go through all that again. I've had plenty of issues on mine as I have a pattern of anxiety spiking literally every 7 days for about 3-4 days now (before it was longer worse but also longer not quite as bad) and I can't see its my anxiety as never had this on Citalopram. Its a bit of a lottery really...guinea pigs I guess.
Never saw that program terry.sounds interesting tho....yout right about sleep deprevasion tho.iv read all sorts of nasty effects from lack of sleep.i remember when i was suffering with insomnia,i felt stoned !! I was calling woman ,( mate ) instead of darling or love,as i normaly would.i was forgetting the symplest of things ,but have read other people have had a lot worse..so you say the head zaps are a whithraw ? I had them before when i was on zopiclone for a few months,they were very intence and got them the whole time of being on them.....how long you been on your meds mate ?can you not see yourself ever coming off them .i tried cit before and it sent me mad !! I couldnt cope on them..are you working mate what do you do with your spare time
MyNameIsTerry
06-04-15, 11:36
Well when I came off Citalopram I experienced dizziness, wooly heads and brain zaps. Its very common with antidepressant withdrawal so if this has only just started as you reduce the olanzapine, it sounds like it is one to me. I think MrAndy said ages ago that he had reduced or withdrawn olanzapine, it might have been when he had that rough sleep week, so maybe he will be able to give you some advice on that?
Sleep deprivation causes confusion as it really messes up the cognitive processes. Ever seen films where they put prisoners in isolation, feed them low rations and keep waking them continually to state name & number? Its an old fashioned torture method. The longer it goes on, the more you get confused.
It was an interesting programme. It was like a Big Brother for sleep as they had them doing tasks and interacting. It was very hard going for them, nothing like reality shows tend to be. They really struggled with it after a few days.
I've been on the current one about 3 years or so, maybe 4. I will come of it, even if it means swapping as I'm not convinced this is helping me as much but I do want to be off it fulltime. It makes me tired a lot and I don't want that forever.
I'm not working mate. I was when I was on Citalopram but the relapse was worse and my job was a massive trigger as it was stressful and lot of fighting with idiots and I couldn't keep it up. They wouldn't help me, it was obvious they were happy to let me progress through the process to be sacked and in the end I made a load of work for them to do with HR watching them and then gave them the boot. With living at home, my outgoings are low so I'm lucky and I had been saving a mortgage deposit for a long time so I'm using that up to keep me afloat so I'm luckier than a lot of people in that respect. Its a double-edged sword though as its not good for depression living at home in your thirties! I just didn't dare take the chance on a mortgage and it was a good job I didn't with what happened.
Spare time wise I do a lot of walking and reading mostly. TV, video games that I already had, etc. There is lots of stuff I want to do though, my sleep routine just prevents a lot of it right now.
You know when you say its hard because you are on your own and there is only so much to do? I know how you feel because I get like that too. All my mates are gone due to this, social life dead and I don't spend money on things because I have nothing coming in which closes off a lot of avenues to healthy behaviours. I class myself as living on JSA and keep to minimums so I don't burn through my cash. You feel trapped and the days can be long. This is why I go walking as it rids me of several hours a day at least and when I was sleeping earlier I would be out more walking through the countryside or the parks. It can be a killer routine sometimes as you think "god, is this all there is" but its better than me sitting about.
I think that we're all guinea pigs in the meds game. It's so difficult to trust these psychiatrists/doctors who dish out these pills quite liberally and then are unavailable when problems arise or else plead ignorance regarding side effects which can be crippling.
Getting through the day is so hard with overwhelming anxiety. I honestly don't know whether medication makes any difference or whether it provides a placebo effect.
Terry sorry to hear about your job maye.that sucks..it must be hard living back at home to.no independance there.dont think i could ever live back with my parents ever again.id rather be homeless .i never see that program mate but wish i did,it sounds realy interseting.i didnt realize the punishment in the prison ,isolation,never new that was deliberate towards the prisoner.that must be so hard being in those situations.it would be bad enough just being in prison without the extra stress they inflict apon you...the days are long mate and im with you on the feeling that this could just be it forever more unemployed walking the streets,but the walks along the canow sound nice,esp in the summer,ill have to take that up i think.spending two much time on your own just makes everything so much worse i think.iv spent two years on my own realy and dont know any other way of thinking anymore.i spend so much time in my own head,talking to myself and assesing how i feel through the day..id love to just be getting on with things and the day pass me by,just like it used to..i never used to overthink things and check myself out through the day,so spending much less time with my self..i think i need a job,to feel needed and structure,routeen.a reason to actualy get up mon-sat..id love that,makes you feel norm..if they sugest puttinge on citarlapran id tell them where to go.i had that before and it screwed my head up.i think we are all on trial to the doctors for meds,try this one try that one.you can spend years trying something out that may never work.thats why id love to get off all my meds and see how i feel underneth them.have they been making me worse over the years and iv just excepted this as my norm?maybe the meds are to blame for the way i feel today...least you have some savings mate to get you by ,thats good.i wish there was people on NMP that were local to me.it would be so nice to hook up and actualy meet ,after all this time of talking in hear.someone to relate to and be support for each other.maybe ill post again to see if there is
MyNameIsTerry
07-04-15, 07:14
You wouldn't be the first person to suspect their meds to be dulling their experiences of life, Greg. Some people have to switch them to find something which doesn't have a trade off against some other quality of life issue for them e.g. sedation which many complain of when switching or lack emotional attachment even.
Isolation is a bad one. I now understand why they say long term unemployment can lead to depression if you don't keep active in all things. The "Groundhog Day" feeling really is a killer when you can't do things because you can't afford them as you very quickly run out of things. My dad struggled a bit with adjusting to retirement for the same reasons as he was used to working 5-6 days and often 7 days a week when we were kids. It took him some time but he found his niche, with the help of the dog.
Walking is good, Greg. I won't lie to you, it gets me down sometimes because its still a lonely activity on your own but its healthier than sitting around on your own. Fresh air and now some sunshine. There are also walking groups around thesedays and these tend to be full with people who are lonely as they have got older or have mental health issues. The charity I went to recommended these to their members.
Hi terry..yes iv thought for a long time that my meds are responsable for making my moods feel worse.im in day 6 now with the cutdown on olanzipine,but again 5am wake instead of my usual 10am wake.part of me is now torn not knowing what to do.continue loosing my sleep or go back to my normal dose..feeling quite tired now as the days have gone by which is getting me down..i used to feel quite releved waking up at 930 or 10 am just knowing id slept well.im loosing several hrs sleep now...i will start to get out more as the weather picks up.there are some nice places for walks,but as you say terry,isolation is a killer,even going for a walk,but id rather that then stuck in doors all day.it is like groundhog day mate with nothing interesting or exciting going on each day.
MyNameIsTerry
07-04-15, 09:25
Well remember in that film Greg how he went a bit mad and kept trying to commit suicide to get the day to end. I think Harold Ramis (remember him as Egon in Ghostbusters?) was playing out another storyline in there about mental health.
Its like that though, the days meld into weeks, weeks into months. You would think with having so much time you would find it passes slowly but it can be the other way. Months go by and you don't really feel it. I find that I really have little use for dates of the calendar other than for birthdays, my new structure just doesn't need to know what day of the week it is anymore because each day is taken as it is.
That can be hard on the mood. I've largely made my peace with it but it can creep up on me. It will change when I made moves on the issues that are in the way of it but until I have to accept it otherwise it will drive me mad.
I reckon get out into the countryside or down the parks. Do some drawing down there or some reading and just try to relax in a different setting. Being stuck in the same places can feed depression. Its funny but if you read professor Mark Williams Frantic World Mindfulness book he talks about this and how we become trapped in routines. His first CBT exercise is to sit somewhere different in your house so many times a week and make a point of noticing the change in your viewpoint. Small acorns, eh?
Something to consider is whether you need a lot of sleep as well. I know when I was getting about 9 hours, if I needed to get say 6 or 7, I would focus on that and how I felt. This made me worse. This is why I say that whilst getting too little needs addressing in my current routine, it has at least proved that I don't need as much as I thought I did. So, its possible you may have those feelings too because its breaking a routine you kind of depended on. Does that make sense?
We are also quite sensitive to change.
Maybe the meds were causing you too sleep too much? But if they were, I expect you would have been knackered all day...but I guess it depends on the half life.
Your right about the days turning into weeks etc.iv noticed as bored as i am,the weeks seem to go by quickly and the months to..i saw that film ground hog day,very funny and true to my life.i can literaly predict my every move in my head through out my day.my parents keep saying to me, well son we do the same stuff every day,and i keep saying to them,yes i know you do but your days are filled with things to do.they both work part time and allways have stuff to do when there in doors,and of course they have each other to talk to.but they just dont see what im saying about being on your own for days on end with no human contact,and when i do have human contact,i havnt got the confedance to talk.so you feel traped in your own head and end up talking to yourself..i feel like i follow myself around all day,wherever i go,my inner self follows,nagging me all day long about things.there are some nice walks near me and will be doing that and nice parks..as you say about the meds,maybe i was being sedated for longer than i needed ! Not sure tho.i dont feel 5 hrs is enough for me.im feeling tired through the day.if i could sleep till 7am that would do me,but anything before that just seems to early..i have been in a routeen of sleep uptill now and i think i did depend on it and took it as my norm amount,so now its droped by nearly half,its hard to except.ill continue with the drop in my meds and see how it goes,and just hope when i cut the other 2.5mg out that i still sleep.if not its back to insomnia which i dont want in my life again,that was a killer last time and made my mental health so bad.as iv said before,my insomnia came on as a result to being put on thyrode medication,before that i used to sleep 8-9 hrs natural sleep every night.the doc told me the insomnia was a side effect of the thyroxine drug and would stay with me forever.i said i cant not bloody sleep forever,thats when after a few months they started me on different meds to try and aid my sleep.then finaly they came across olanzipine.it was a instant hit.sleep was instant for all this time..but at the same time being on that med,im sure its made me worse...so what do i do..not sure
MyNameIsTerry
07-04-15, 11:08
If it goes back to that then Greg, they need to look for something else with less side effects. If it was just down to anxiety/depression, I would say that you may have a few rocky weeks but eventually the body clock will reset itself. Its a hard slog though, I've been there. Since its due to medication, this seems less likely but hopefully they can find you something that is more gentle but gives you a few extra hours back. You may not need all that you are getting, but I agree that 5 seems a bit low compared to before when your thyroid meds are known to do it, so see what they say about other possibilities. I think until you know more, its guesswork beyond what you can gauge from your reductions.
It could even take some time to adjust and your sleep will go back up a little bit but I wouldn't know with it being a medication causing it.
You know, I'm sure I've heard people talk about thyroxine and sleep before. Something about how it depletes something and how some people were searching for way to naturally balance it. I don't think it was on here, I think I came across it looking for information on things like GABA, tyrosine supplements, etc.
My parents are the same. They are both retired and have learned to accept it. My mum doesn't like being stuck in a lot as she used to go out shopping a lot but since her physical health has faded a bit (partly due to the damage the statins did to her back and the poor physio care who did a deep tissue massage which later emerged as the worst thing you could do when the crap came out about statins!) but she gets by doing her knitting and watching TV. My dad was so used to being at work, but again has learned to accept the change in life.
Its harder for us because we are not at that stage in life where it all slows down. I think they are more ready mentally for it than we are. We should be working, going on holidays, mowing the lawn, going out, etc. We find it hard to accept this because its not really natural for our time of life. I know you are bit older than me but you're not old mate and would be doing loads I'll bet, as you have said on other threads that you used to enjoy. We should be doing stuff with our kids whereas they are kind of glad that bits over and the grandkids turn up & get taken away again later!
Its also hard because you have this internal dialogue telling you you shouldn't be relaxing and symptoms making you on edge. You can't easily accept leading this kind of life with that keeping you primed!
I read a Mindfulness book and it talked about how we live in 'autopilot' mode. We get up, we do this, we do that, etc. The day ends, repeat. This is bad news when you have anxiety/depression as it feeds it big time. You get trapped in repetition, it becomes normal and then hard to escape.
To quote a cinematic reference, think of The Shawshank Redemption where the old guy got out and couldn't deal with the new world so ended his life and then it cuts to them reading his goodbye letter. I was reminded of anxiety/depression when Red said "these walls are funny. First you hate them, then you get used to them and then you come to depend on them". These disorders can be just like institutionalisation.
Cracking film though, love the end scene, no words needed.
Your right there mate.good information..i see what you are saying about your parents excepting there way of life as they got older.this is something my parents have done,but refuse to see im only 50 and like you say,i should be out there doing stuff,not sitting around watching the world pass me by each day.i used to go kayaking every week a couple of times,i had my own kayak and all the winter and summer equipment.i was part of a group of lads that used to love going on the white water at the olympic course.it was great.i allso used to have pro radio cars and used to go racing once a week in a club,which i loved,and on top of that i used to goto the gym every single day lifting weights and tons of cardio.i was in fantastic shape for a 48 year old guy.then i used to go out once a week with my wife and maybe out with a mate.plus i had the kids in my life each day demanding my interaction.my days were full even tho i wasnt working.i was happy.then over night Bang !!! It all went and seperated with my wife and kids.and moved away.sold everything i owned as i had no where to store it all plus i needed the cash..and for the last two years have moved around many times before i finaly got my own flat but have now got a empty life..life sucks mate...i havnt seen that film you talked about ,but aounds good,ill have to look into getting that.you say you get used to a instatution life style,your right,thats how i feel my life is but just plod on with it...least your mum and dad have things to do and get them through each day while there retired.maybe i ahould take up knitting.lol...i dont know what your qeather is like,but yesterday it was hot with no cloud and today its even hotter qith clear blue sky's..im aitting in the town and will prob go for a walk in the park in a bit..what you up to ? Any plans
MyNameIsTerry
07-04-15, 13:12
I will be out doing some walking later mate. I always try to get out to break the day up a bit. It's going to be nice to have show warm weather again and maybe sit outside reading a book and watching the birds in the garden.
I guess we have to try to forget the past us and concentrate on what we do now. Making comparisons usually puts pressure on us and leads to depression.
Its all small steps.
That film is a classic mate, I remember it was the most rented film of all time not long ago, not sure if it still is. It's on TV quite a lot.
Thanks terry for the chat.sunshine is out.im sitting in a pub garden and bumped into a couple of friends and they have got me a couple of pints..lovely..enjoy your day mate
Thanks terry for the chat.sunshine is out.im sitting in a pub garden and bumped into a couple of friends and they have got me a couple of pints..lovely..enjoy your day mate
Glad to see you enjoying the day. Please be very careful as the drugs you list in your signature specifically say not to drink while taking them.
Positive thoughts
Thanks fishman.only had a couple..still hot in the sun.its like summer today..beautiful weather..hope it lasts
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-15, 05:22
Glad to see you enjoying the day. Please be very careful as the drugs you list in your signature specifically say not to drink while taking them.
Positive thoughts
Thats true, the NHS advice asking the presciber based on the fact it 'may' interact so don't specifically say you shouldn't.
According to Drugs.com:
- trazadone can increase the effects of alcohol hence they advise not to drink.
- in olanzapine drinking alcohol can increase sleepiness.
So, at least any possible side effects are minor.
I remember when reading around a few other forums about mine, Duloxetine, some people did say that they got drunk much quicker and some even stated they acted out of character compared to when normally drunk (although this could mean they were more intoxicated than normal so cannot judge whether they would normally act that way). Others said the opposite though, hence I guess with these more minor interactions it will be a matter of take no chances or determine your risk when you first try alcohol but start small just incase.
Whilst I mentioned on the other thread that alcohol is to be used with caution on mine, if you use Drugs.com it says the same but cites the possible side effects it can cause. Interestingly, it also states exercise, dehydration and hot weather in the same section and explains how to sit/lie down to deal with the side effects. This is why its so important to check or speak to someone who has medical knowledge (which is going to be a pharmacist with these, GP's overhere are far less knowledgeable on meds). Otherwise I need to stay in all summer in front of a fan and not get exercise which is far worse for me!
Greg, if you notice anything unusual, contact somebody. Get a load of water in you too so it flushes it out.
---------- Post added at 05:22 ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 ----------
Thanks terry for the chat.sunshine is out.im sitting in a pub garden and bumped into a couple of friends and they have got me a couple of pints..lovely..enjoy your day mate
I think the appopriate emoticon is... :dribble:
I do miss sitting having a few beers with mates.
Cheers, at least its warmer.
Only had a couple yesterday late afternoon.abd drank plenty of water to..to be honest,iv drank more than this manytimes before while on my meds..so a couple is not a problem..what is a problem is this bloody sleeping.last night i woke at 3.30am for no reason.just woke instantly.and didnt feel tired...now since iv been in my flat for 6 months now,iv slept fantasticly even when iv had a drink,so i know the two pints yesterday are not responsable...it took me bloody ages to go back to sleep.i had rapid eye movements under my eye lids..so in the end i took another half of olanzipine,so thats back to my orig dose again because i have been on half for over a week now....as from tonight im going back in my regular dose of 5mg and hope i start sleeping again,otherwise im going to be really stressed if i have to go through insomnia all over again...i used to be gaurantied great sleep,upto a couple of weeks ago,and when i did wake in the night for a wee,i just got back into bed and fell straight back to sleep.....what the hell has gone wrong.......it seemed to start nearly two weeks ago when i was given some very good news and i think id just started cutting down olanzipine....today i feel flat because im depressed to think my onsomnia may have returned....dont want to go through lack of sleep all over again
---------- Post added at 09:27 ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 ----------
I forgot to say.iv been waking around 5-6am on the build up to todays early wake...this is how my insomnia started before..im now dredding bedtime for the feer of early waking..wheres before this started,bedtime was a haven and escape from my mental health..i hope my sleep returns....
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-15, 09:38
I'm sure it will, Greg. I just hope they can find you something more suitable for the future.
As hard as its going to be, get it out of your mind because thinking about sleep when you are anxious makes it worse. Just think that you are back to your stable dose and it has worked fine in the past so there is no reason it could go wrong. If it does, say to yourself its just because I've gone down & up again so it will be adjusting and might take a night or two.
Well i hope so terry..today i feel to bloody tired and flat.just knowing i didnt sleep..i did get my head burnt yesterday from sitting in the sun for to long.and was quite saw when i went to bed.could this have caused me to wake early.?
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-15, 09:48
Maybe. If something is hurting, it can wake us up.
The thing is Greg, you have a strong reaction to this because of how it was before. Anxiety is all about retrieving data like this and sending it to your conscious mind which then panics or obsesses over it and the subconscious says "excellent, I got it right, I'll send that again next time" and it just continues.
So, please try to rationalise, I know its hard with any of the issues on this website. Just remember that you are restoring your dose plus your are knackered which is an encouragement to sleep. Think that you are remaining stable until you get this team to assess you and come up with another solution. Try to draw a line under it that way. Don't think about hoping it goes back because its engaging with the subconscious again and encouraging it to send what it has to conscious mind and the cycle keeps going. Try to distract yourself, get out if you can, go for a walk. Face sleep when the time comes.
Thanks terry.you make perfect sence.i will go out for a walk today and cover up my head from the sun.as you say,it might take a couple of days to get back to my norm sleep again.to be honest id be quite happy waking around 7am after last nights sleep.but of course would much prefere to wake at my old times 9am onwards.ill try not to think about it tonight,but it will be hard not to as its wound me up today
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-15, 10:02
I went through a long stage of that, Greg. If I didn't get my expected X hours, I would feel rough and expect my anxiety to spike. It often did, but more likely because of how I was interacting with those feelings and blowing them up.
I know what thats like and I see this in your posts. I know its not easy though, it was a while before I started to realise I was making it worse for myself and needed to let it go.
The right attitude is to accept it for what it is, a lesson learnt (not a failure), plod on through the day with some distractions and face it when it comes. You will even sleep or you won't but the meds will start working soon again for you and it will change.
Its surprising how little sleep we can go on because our body adjusts, like mine has to 2 hours less a night. Its not great, but its not the bad it would have been a couple of years ago when I would have woke up and looked at the alarm clock and felt anxious, annoyed, cheesed off, etc which all just made it worse.
The thing over the hours is that you know it will be ok if you get the regular expected amount. It ticks that box in your head. If not, you worry about how much harder the day will be, but the reality is that we make a lot of that for ourselves in how we react. It makes more sense when you get past the mental block telling you its all bad, like with anything in anxiety and then you get over it.
So you dont get much sleep yourself mate ? Your right about the little box being ticked in your head,thats exactly what i used to do.even tho i slept well more months,i would still allways look at the time when i woke and would tick the box in my head thinking, right iv had 9-10 hrs sleep ao thats that acheived..i did this for months.i think because i had such a bad spell of insomnia it marked my mind and hated so much...it was warmer in my bedroom last night to..when i woke up i had to take my pjs off ,top and bottom and took the extra duvet of my bed,thats the first time since iv been in my flat iv ever done that due to it being milder in my flat,maybe that helped to wake me,i dont know....hows your sleep nowadays mate,how many hrs do you get
---------- Post added at 10:25 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------
Just phoned the doctors.appt at 3 pm...going to ask for a short course of tamazapan sleeping pills.just take one tonight to help kickstart me back into my sleep.iv had them before on and off and they have always worked well for me..
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-15, 10:35
Nah, but not because I can't sleep (I can sleep loads as I'm undersleeping) but because I have OCD and whilst I've resolved loads of it, I have problems with obsessional behaviour that I have yet to solve and one of them is my sleep pattern. Its telling me to stay up later and later. I feel the urge to stay up beyond what I do now, so it becomes 4 hours, 3 hours, 2 hours sleep, etc.
This is what I mean about we are more resilient than we realise. A few years back this would have made me panic like crazy. Its not perfect bvut I get by. I struggle with the first half of the day but after that I can have a lot more energy. Its not doing me good, I know that and I have issues with aches & pains that take a while to heal up.
Believe me mate, I know all about the box ticking. At my worst in relapse (and courtesy of my GP giving me Duloxetine!) I developed full blown OCD. My days turned into an endless stream of rituals and thoughts. All day, every day. Endless touching of objects all day (easily 100+), being unable to walk through a street without reading every single lamp post sticker, car reg plate, care model numbers, road signs and not just once either! And it was the same every day, like IK had a big long list in my head and I was checking them off one by one. If I didn't do them, elevated anxiety set in.
It was crazy and back then I didn't know anything about OCD other than it was something to do with repetitive cleaning, checking & hoarding.
I ate in certain ways, drank only at certain times no matter how thirsty, took even numbers of sips which got more & more.
It was hell!
It took me ages to get beyond that and CBT didn't help me that much. Mindfulness did.
Its true about it marking your mind. Thats what it does. The subsconscious looks for patterns of behaviour to learn something it needs to store for future use. This is why we end up creating a lot of our problems as it doesn't have a view on right or wrong, good or bad, healthy or unhealthy. The same process is how we learn to drive, play an instrument. Ever done something on autopilot? Thats the process. It looks for emotional reaction too and the stronger the reaction, the more important it judges it to be. This is why panicking only reinforced things and this is why I'm saying you should just push on and let it pass because when we engage with it, we validate it to a subconscious that can't see fear, it just sees a line of code like a computer and files it in the right place.
I think the heat was the likely culprit. It can be hard to get back to sleep as well when hot. Body temperature drops in our sleep like our blood pressure and rises when we wake. Even cold feet can wake you up or stop you getting off to sleep.
I get about 5 hours. I've been pushing it up to 6, 7, etc but the problem is that I fall back into the old pattern really quickly because thats what mt subconscious believes to be correct. So, I start waking up, wanting to do things, finding jobs to do, etc. I need to be more strict with myself, but with having nothing on the go it feeds it really. So, far I've done about 4-5 days where I've gone to bed very early because I was tried and slept anywhere up to 14.5 hours! So, I know how much I am in a deficit to want that.
I've tried a few ways with it and it just slips back. Its not a sleep disorder, MrAndy gave me a good link about that and I did some reading about it to find that it does actually mimic a known sleep disorder but my reasons for not sleeping earlier don't match, so I just regard it as part of my OCD.
Bloody hell mate.didnt realize your ocd was as bad as that.on very rare ocasions if found myself reading signs,but very rare nothing like you,that must be hard to deal with.i see what you say about doing things when you wake,i nearly got up and put tv on or washup last night,but resisted in the end.i thought i slept in late,but your 14.5 hrs is massive ! Jesus thats some sleeping sesion.wish i could have some of that..weather hear clear blue sky's and the sun is out again...im going for a walk in a while.whats your plans mate for the day
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-15, 11:06
I guess it crept up on me! Part of my issue is that I have a point where I get tired earlier on and then I seen to go beyond the pain barrier and bounce back wiith energy. So, I have the most energy nearer to bedtime. I also tend to feel my best later in the day and I think this has been a factor because my sleep patterns didn't change quickly, its happened over years, bit by bit, whilst I have been working on other issues.
The road signs point was probably about my lowest time. It was very depressing, I was frequently late for things which made me feel guilty but unable to change. I still have a bit of this in me now but I control it, it doesn't control me and it only seeps out when my GAD flares up in the blips. Otherwise, I look at the signs & things with a different attitude and tell myself that I've looked, its done, its nothing sinister, I did it not my subconscious and I don't need to look again.
I even developed a nod heading ritual to go with it. People driving past must have thought I was hammered! :blush: :D Its strange though because if someone was walking behind me, I wouldn't do it almost like the embarrassment would be worse. I think that showed me the first sign of a way out with it, but ultimately reducing my GAD gave me some breathing space.
I'll have to get and type some of this up and upload my CBT list of them. Maybe people might find some hope in seeing how mad I was back and then and how much of it has gone. I know I fully expected to be like that for the rest of my life back then.
But hey, as the Predator says "sh1t happens". :D
I'm going to reading for a bit, get some sleep, grab some food and go out for a work and have a wander round the supermarket for some essentials and then watch some mindless TV for a bit and hit the net for some cheap deals on my dogs favourite food.
Have a good one.
Glad you got in under control no mate.i think that would drive me bloody mad.you must be a strong man to deal with that.not nice mate.well have a good day terry ,take care for now
Terry, you have done so well and made unbelievable progress thanks to your own perseverance and strength of character. I doubt whether the Maudsley would have achieved similar results. True OCD can take over your life but you haven't allowed it to progress into deeply entrenched rituals. I'm deeply in awe..You don't give yourself enough credit!
MyNameIsTerry
09-04-15, 06:04
Glad you got in under control no mate.i think that would drive me bloody mad.you must be a strong man to deal with that.not nice mate.well have a good day terry ,take care for now
I wish mate! :D
You know, anxiety recovery is a bit like when those worlds strongest man contestants and struggling on the Atlas Stones.
---------- Post added at 06:04 ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 ----------
Terry, you have done so well and made unbelievable progress thanks to your own perseverance and strength of character. I doubt whether the Maudsley would have achieved similar results. True OCD can take over your life but you haven't allowed it to progress into deeply entrenched rituals. I'm deeply in awe..You don't give yourself enough credit!
Ah, thanks Pulisa. I feel the need to give you some of these :flowers:
Maybe I was lucky because I think my GAD is the driver so I'm not quite as afraid of the OCD as the poor people I have seen on TV going into those places. But I hope they would be able to do more.
Oh it took over for a while, it took me probably near 2 years to break free of most of that and that was only because of Mindfulness as CBT wasn't doing much for it. Too much concentration on OCD and not enough on the GAD that was driving it. It started to melt away once I started to bring my underlying anxiety levels down as opposed to challenging it direct. Then I could challenge it direct.
I still have the sleep pattern issues to resolve but I think thats one of the last ones that I haven't done enough with and I think I know I can do it, its just that I put obstacles in the way a lot so I need to be stricter with myself.
Anyway, I don't have the challenges that you have with your daughter. I've met a lady with a young son who was just starting on that path and I don't know how she had the strength to do it. I guess there is something inside us that fights back when the time is right. So remember that because there are people on here who think the strength you have is awesome.
I guess I feel responsible for passing a lot of my "issues" on to her in the good ol' DNA pool. Fortunately and thank god she has yet to develop an eating disorder. It is of course far more difficult to deal with anxiety/depression/OCD as she's on the autistic spectrum so my role is to interpret anxiety management techniques in a way that she can comprehend. CBT was always a non-starter despite many attempts . Subtle mindfulness is the way forward, I think for both her and me.
Greg, I hope that you've managed to get a bit more sleep? I have to say though that I don't think you should focus too much on how many hours sleep you are getting as this can quickly escalate into obsessive behaviour and anxiety re your sleep patterns.
MyNameIsTerry
09-04-15, 09:11
CBT doesn't sound like a good thing for someone with autism. It relies on interpreting things to a model but her model differs so I don't get how they think it will really work. Was it a case of sticking to the NICE model rather than doing something bespoke?
Hopefully with the weather being nicer going forward you can both get outdoors to do some of the Mindfulness then, perhaps some connection with nature? I seem to recall some art therapy was going on so there is a crossover in there as there are Mindfulness art books now.
Good old NICE guidelines and box ticking!:D Sadly the square pegs never did fit the round holes so basically it was case closed for us!
We always do a lot of walking. Today we are going to Hampstead Heath where it should be ideal for some gentle exercise. Every little helps!
MyNameIsTerry
09-04-15, 10:17
Yeah definately. The nice weather should help, it lifts the spirits, the opposite of how winter ticks us off.
There are walking clubs around here. A lot of the people that seem to go on them are those with few people to talk to or struggling with physical or mental health. Its a good idea.
Does your daughter like creative hobbies or can they be a bit much for her if not in short bursts? (sorry, I know very little about it)
When my girl comes up this sat ,we are going to bake cakes and play on the play station for a while,then a couple of films.should be a nice night.im looking forward to seeing her so much..its been several months since iv seen her
MyNameIsTerry
09-04-15, 11:57
There you go mate, something really good to look forward to.
What sort of cakes are you baking and surely there must be a way of uploading one and sending it over to us by now with all this technology!
Hopefully good weather too which always lifts the spirits mate.
Lol.not aure what cakes mate.i dont know how to upload in this site as im using a phone not a pc
I'm so pleased for you that you're seeing your daughter, greg. Something really positive to look forward to!
My daughter is a perfectionist (surprise, surprise!), Terry and hates anything not going to plan so creative hobbies are a bit hit or miss. She loves working with animals though and does 2 voluntary short stints at a local farm and pet shop per week. We have guinea pigs and a gerbil at home and of course we sadly lost our house cat 3 weeks ago which has left a big gap.. Animals are hugely therapeutic in our household.
MyNameIsTerry
10-04-15, 04:17
I think animals are important to a lot of us as well, Pulisa. Aside from the love/companionship, I think they ground us by reminding us that despite all the modern life, we are part of nature and should remember that as well as appreciate it.
Perhaps you can introduce the Mindfulness through animals then? I've seen a book on that on Amazon written by someone who works with animals professionally. I guess there is the issue that you can be more interesting in the animal so struggle to follow it, but it seems like something she has a foot in already so maybe she would take it in because it involves something she loves?
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