View Full Version : For the love of God, please help me 😢
My Friends,
I’m sorry this turned out way to long but I still hope that you will read it to help me in this desperate time and the steaks are high for me. I don't know how to keep it short because I feel like all the details are essential to understand what is really going on. Thanks for helping.
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I am giving this Forum a try because I don't know where to go from here.
Let me tell you a bit about myself. I've had Pure-O OCD for more than 15 years now with nasty thoughts making my life miserable from time to time.
My obsessions usually revolve around several themes such as HOCD, Worries about my health, Sophism, fear of becoming psychotic and the list goes on and on. I've been able to cope with these obsessions because I have a very supportive wife that understands the condition very well. She's a true blessing and I am very grateful for her.
Throughout the years she has been helping me when things get to tough for me to handle. She takes me by the hand and comforts me until I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Somehow I fear that this has led me to become dependent on her over time. In the last 3 years or so It has become very difficult for me to sleep anywhere away from her without having anxiety attacks at night and calling her up to get me through the night. One of the themes that I am having trouble with is the fear of developing agoraphobia and subsequently become home-bound. This would mean that I would not be able to do my job anymore. I am not sure if you are familiar with the feeling of being afraid of something so much that you start mimicking the symptoms. Often when the steaks are high I would start to feel panic rising up because the thought of running away from a situation would spell disaster for my career. For example I'd be on a business trip with colleagues and suddenly worry that I would panic and make a fool out of myself by asking them to stop the car and let me out. Or I am in a business meeting and suddenly I start feeling anxious and I would worry that I must leave the room and my boss would fire me because of my problem to attend meetings without having panic attacks.
In the past years I've been actively avoiding far trips from home because I was afraid of the anxiety filled nights; waking up tired and feeling even worse which would make the following night even more unbearable. I would even cancel trips to friends because of some bad experiences at night. I would just get anxious but it was more or less limited to the nights and I would get anxious just before bedtime. At the core of this fear is the thought that I would panic so much that getting home would be impossible or that I would need to be hospitalized and not make it home again.. I know it's completely irrational but in this moment of panic the feeling of helplessness is immense.
Recently I got promoted to sales director of a multinational organization. Most people would be happy about such a promotion but I felt my anxiety rising when the first sales trips were scheduled. 2 Weeks ago I gathered all my strength and courage and decided to finally embrace my fate and go on a business trip for a week. I knew that it is not going to be easy but since I've avoided traveling for such a long time I couldn't recall how bad it could be.
The trip started out well, I had no anxiety whatsoever on the way to the airport. My fear of panicking on the plane did not substantiate, the flight was quite pleasant and I was proud of myself.
Then the night came and I started feeling the anxiety rise as soon as I entered the hotel. I was already thinking about this moment the entire day, Stressing about the difficult night I had ahead of me. As soon as I laid down to sleep I felt my anxiety rise through the roof. I was afraid not to be able to sleep and that the next day will be hell. I started worrying about the next night and how in god’s name I would manage this week without getting a nervous breakdown. I was getting angry at my colleagues who were enjoying the good food, the visits and the hotel and felt sad that I was the one stuck with this hellish feeling in my room. I felt like a child and a fool - a loser. I called my wife begging her to help me calm down and asking her what I could do to get through the trip alive and make it home safely without being hospitalized. The panic I had this time was stronger than anything I’ve ever felt before. My mouth dried up and I my vision was blurred. I was worried that this panic attack will stick in my head and it will become the ‘new standard’ for anxiety. I was also afraid that this form of panic could surface during the day…
I eventually fell asleep in absolute terror and woke up feeling like a train wreck. To my surprise I woke up feeling okay. I took a shower and went downstairs. Usually I handle the days well, I get some anxiety here and there but I manage to suppress it and get on with the day.
Somehow this time was different, I immediately felt the panic, the same sort of panic I had before falling asleep the night before. This put me on high alert and I felt shattered because I wouldn’t know how to deal with this sort of panic during the day. So the worst day of my life started, it was traumatizing with very few moments of relief. Sometimes I was able to straighten myself up but the speed at which my brain was shifting from sheer panic to depression was unbearable. I tried holding on to these occasional random seconds of relief; tried positive Self talk and everything to just stabilize myself but I didn’t succeed. The minutes felt like hours and days turned into years.
During the days I was convinced that I would never make it home again, I would get stuck in Brazil and no one could help me. I was looking up flights so my Wife could come over and ‘save’ me but the panic was so strong that I thought that not even she could manage to put me pack together.
All these days I was building up to the flight and how I would not even make it to the airport.
The day came and I was sitting in the car to the Airport, my whole body was shaking and my eyes were stuck on the glove compartment for the entire drive. I was giving my everything just to stay seated and not ask the driver to pull over. I was breaking from the inside but I had to stay strong.
When I arrived at the airport I felt my knees giving in, I was in a different world. Somehow I managed to make it through the 30. Minute Security check but after that I was toast. I decided to call the nurse. They came and I broke down in tears telling them when I went through and that the way I feel I would never make it home. I was accepting my fate that I will just die somewhere in Brazil in a hospital room because even if my wife came it would take too long. With this feeling inside and absolutely nothing to calm me down my soul would leave my body for sure.
The nurse was really nice and managed to talk me down a little bit. She pulled out some Xanax (1mg) and I took it. Not so long after I calmed down quite a bit. I started to believe that I could make it. I couldn’t believe it. The Gate opened and boarding started. Another huge anxiety spike despite the Xanax teared through my brain. I called the nurse again, she came and gave me some more pills. Everything was building up to this moment. Over a million times over I thought about that moment, how I would sit in the plane and panic so much that they would have to pull me out of the plane.
Eventually I got inside the plane and I battled even more, I fought for every second sitting there, just to not open my mouth and stay seated. Just get home, just get home!! Plane took off and with every passing hour my anxiety lessened because I was closer to home. Eventually we landed and I saw my wife. I couldn’t believe I made it.
Now I am dealing with the aftermath. Since I’ve already been worrying about developing agoraphobia this new found form of extreme panic attack makes me fear that I would start panicking in everyday situations at work at home. I fear that this experience has opened up the floodgates for panic disorder. As if OCD was not enough to deal with…. I am terrified now. Scared that my worst nightmare will come true and I will become homebound with panic and fear. That I won’t be able to do what I’ve done before. I used to love traveling, meeting new people and getting places. Now all of this seems impossible to even think about. I’ve had similar worries that I would develop panic disorder before and I always managed to just get on with life and nothing happened.
After this trip and after the Daytime Panic Attacks that I’ve never had before I feel like it’s entirely possible now to actually get panic attacks in all kind of situations and that I won’t be able to manage them myself just like in the airport. My confidence is at its lowest level in my life and my work will not become easier. I will have to travel again soon and I just don’t know what to do about it. I cannot see myself go through this hell again. I feel helpless and I am genuinely afraid of what is to come.
I’ve never taken medications and I want to keep it this was because I believe that meds don’t really address the root cause of the problem. I was proud of my ability to handle the anxiety and refocus. Something went terribly wrong on this trip and in my mind I won’t be able to recover from it.
So I am sitting here full of anxiety about the future and with nothing to do about it. I am worried how this will affect my career at the company and I feel inferior to my colleagues who are able to do this very basic thing called traveling with pleasure while I struggle so much.
Will my life become even more difficult after what happened? What can I do to get better, to feel confident again and to get back to where I was before this trip? Is this panic disorder or is it still OCD?
---------- Post added at 19:46 ---------- Previous post was at 19:44 ----------
It feels like everything I've worked for is going to fall apart now. My job, my wife will leave me and I'll ultimately end it because there is nothing left. I feel so incredibly frightened....
---------- Post added at 20:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:46 ----------
I feel like life the way I knew it is over and from now on I'll just be damaged goods. Unpredictable and breakable at any moment. I just can't cope with the feeling inside right now. It's like constantly lifting the heaviest weight without being able to let to. Every passing second is the test or my life
---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:04 ----------
I feel like life the way I knew it is over and from now on I'll just be damaged goods. Unpredictable and breakable at any moment. I just can't cope with the feeling inside right now. It's like constantly lifting the heaviest weight without being able to let to. Every passing second is the test or my life
You are catastrophising. These are unhelpful thoughts and they are not true. Your wife is supportive and she is not going to leave you.
You've just got this promotion so it's expected that it will take some time for you to adjust and adapt to the new role. It sounds like the increased pressure of the job might have partly triggered your anxiety.
You say that medication isn't what addresses the root of the problem. I agree. I believe that therapy addresses the root of the problem. CBT helps people learn ways of thinking to deal with current struggles. Psychodynamic psychotherapy goes into your childhood. Counselling helps you deal with trauma. Those are just three forms of therapy - the ones that I know about. There are other forms too. Maybe some form of therapy will help you.
If things are very bad and you think they will stay bad for a while, medication can help in the medium term. They calm you down so that you are able to take on daily challenges. People sometimes take medication while they are in therapy. I personally started off doing CBT, but after 3 months I decided to start taking citalopram too, and now I'm in psychotherapy and 3 months into citalopram. Things are still difficult but they are certainly better than before.
From your story, to me it sounds like you have much to be proud of. You have a wonderful relationship with your wife, and you have success in your career. You had a business trip to Brazil. That's so exciting. And to top it off, you had the massive challenge of anxiety during this trip, and you got through it. You didn't die. It wasn't easy, but you survived. And because you survived, you can do it again.
I was moved when reading your post. You described the panic so accurately, I knew just what you had been through.
Several things come to mind...you went through the panic and you came out the other side. Perhaps this could give you confidence? You were going through hell inside and yet you achieved what you had to do. That should tell you a lot about your inner strength.
Also, I think you may be doing what so many of us do...fearing the fear and worrying about whether it will happen again. It may, but equally it may not. If it does, you'll get through it again as you have already done.
You say that you try to avoid medication. Have you tried cognitive therapy, which will address your ways of thinking? The "what ifs" aren't helpful to any of us because they are usually catastrophic. And again, none of these may happen. I've spent so much of my life worrying about the things that didn't happen and I'm beginning to regret the amount of time I've wasted.
The home page on here is excellent and has helped me on many an occasion. Have you read any books on panic? I read a brilliant book recently written by someone who has experienced quite acute anxiety...it didn't give answers but I actually felt better reading it because the author clearly knew what it was like to go through panic. It can be quite terrifying but still we get through it.
Zeros, your story sounds similar to the feelings I had on the first day I posted on this forum a few weeks ago. I had gone to a seminar for work a long way from home, about nine hours on the train. Getting there had been fine, however, on the final morning of the seminar, I had a full blown anxiety attack, convinced that my head was about to explode. I left the seminar, making excuses about catching an earlier train. On the train, it just got worse and worse. Like an aircraft, trains are terrible when you are having an attack, because you can't just stop and get off. I did go outside a station I had to change trains at for a whole, and seriously considered asking my wife to make the long journey in the car to pick me up, my fear of going back on the train was that acute.
It was on that next leg of the journey that I registered, and began posting here. This forum got me through the remainder of the journey. I downloaded a very good cognitive therapy audiobook that had been recommended here, and it continues to provide me with coping strategies.
More than anything, this place reminds one that we are not alone.
You are obviously very good at your work. That is another thing we have in common. I hope that, like me, you will find ways of coping, or getting through, when you have to travel. I treat this as just another day at work, albeit in a different location. I do still get anxiety issues, but nowhere near as acute as the one I have described.
Most importantly, like me, you have a supportive and loving wife. Mine understands, and helps me. She creates a loving space, and this pulls me through. Earlier,
I had an episode. My first for a week. The reason? Thinking too much about the fate that ultimately awaits us all, and this nearly always triggers depressive or anxious moments. This has been my particular OCD since I was a young boy. My wife helps me in this a great deal.
Best wishes. These episodes are horrible, and we always hate them. They can be overcome, however, with coping strategies. I am beginning to realise that these episodes are simply a part of who I am, and coming to that acceptance is really helping.
It doesn't stop the horrible head sensations, or the fears, or the horrible feelings, but it does allow me to cope with them, and make them more short lived, than before. Eventually, I hope they will be a thing of the past.
Hold on to that love and support. Get some coping techniques.
Best wishes to you.
You guys are wonderful! I can't thank you enough for your support and understanding. I'm trying very hard to cope, survive, and I'm very afraid of the future and how this experience will change my life forever. With me it's not just a panic attack that passes but rather a constant feeling deep down in my chest and head.
I've had pure o ocd for many years with many different obsessions. Even an obsession with the fear of developing agoraphobia after hearing about it from a friend. At occasions I felt like the agoraphobia was manifesting while I was on planes and trains or in important meetings. So far I've managed and I was okay with traveling by car and attending meetings.
After that trip to Brazil I feel like things will never be the way they were. I'm worried that I've now developed true panic disorder and that this is another beast altogether that I'm just not equipped to fight.
Today I've visited my family with my wife and during the visit I was holding on to Dear life, trying to cope and not run out. This is entirely new to me.
Do you think that I can at least get to how I was feeling a week ago before the trip? Or has this traumatic experience of the trip really changed me?
I just want to get back to the old miserable me. I was okay, I was able to exist. My poor wife is totally overwhelmed by all of this. She's trying her best but I can't stop ranting, panicking and dooming life.
I haven't cried for more than 30 years. Now I'm crying every 2 hours. I'm completely out of control.
Can things get to where they were?
I could really use some comforting and reassurance. Where can I get the CBT audio book you're taking about Steve?
Thanks so much to all of you!
Jake Douglas
---------- Post added at 22:51 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------
I can't imagine going to work again tomorrow. Feeling like this I won't be able to handle it. What would you do? Would it be good exposure to just bite through this impossible feeling and go or is it more damaging?
Maybe just take a week of but then the pressure builds and I will start anticipating the Panic that I will have when I start again. What about trivial tasks such as driving or going shopping? How I can do these things now? I feel like I'm going to be homebound forever... It was one of my greatest Fear. To be a failure.
Zeros,
Have some faith in yourself. You sound like a very strong person to have made it this far. You'll be ok :)
Can you visit your doctor ASAP and explain how you're feeling? Ask for a referral for therapy and maybe medication if you feel you need it.
Try to sit your wife down and explain what's been happening. I'm sure if she's stuck with you and supported you for this long she'll understand.
Maybe even show her the post you made as it articulates panic really well and it's pretty easy to realise what a hard time you've been having.
Congratulations on the promotion! Focus on the positive right now and be as proactive as you can be in making change to your life.
Best wishes :)
Thanks for your kind words Emily. My wife is very supporting but I feel like I'm under so much distress that it is too much for her to handle. I just woke up and I can feel the Panic rising again. The muscles around my temples are tensing up again.
I've never needed medication and usually when I do it makes things worse so I like to stay off the meds.
Your doctor may be able to help to connect you to therapy. If things have got this bad, it sounds like you would really benefit from therapy to understand what is going on. A CBT book might help you, but talking to someone who can explain what is happening to you specifically would be reassuring, right? You sound scared and you don't know why this is happening or when it will end. A CBT book is not going to have all the answers, though it will help a bit.
You don't need to take medication if you go to the doctors - just please go and visit them to tell them what's going on and access other kinds of help. Going to a professional for help is a very important stage in recovery - it means that you are admitting to yourself that you need help. You've already told us here, so the next stages are to talk to your wife and a professional.
Lior, thanks for your input. I've been going to a therapist for many years on and off for the ocd but never was I so disabled by a condition. I woke up this morning and soon the Panic crept back in. Now I'm sitting downstairs trying to eat but my head is about to explode.
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It's not so much the Panic Attacks but the constant feeling of pressure and tension. This seems like a constantly extremely high level of anxiety as apposed classic panic attacks. What do you think?
I have GAD and that feeling of constant tension is quite consistent with how I feel. A panic attack, on the other hand, is (for me) an explosion of that tension; it's quite different. I don't want to diagnose you, though, I think it's best that you see a therapist as soon as you can. Your GP can help set this up but you could always find one yourself as you don't typically need a referral.
Whenever I feel very on-edge, I try and do some moderate/strenuous exercise to burn off the excess energy. Can you go for a brisk walk or even run when you feel this bad? Breathing exercises or meditation should help, too. If you have a smartphone, I would recommend an app called SAM, which has a combination of CBT exercises, strategies for anxiety/panic relief, resources on the mechanisms of anxiety and panic etc. It's been really helpful to me while I've been waiting for my therapy to get under way. There's some good meditation apps as well- SAM is free but I think the paid ones are usually worth the price if you'd like some guided meditation, for instance. There's also a free meditation app called Smiling Minds which is quite good (it was free when I checked anyway). Just FYI, I'm not paid to endorse these apps! Haha.
So I would try these different strategies out until you can get into therapy and hopefully they'll make things a bit easier for you.
Best of luck!
Hey,
Thanks for the app recommendation. I'll have a look at this.
Do you think that I can get back to the way I was a week ago before the trip? That I can ever go to meetings, be alone outside without my wife?
It seems so impossible to imagine since all is this happened.
I'm sure you can. I was always a bit anxious before last year and worried excessively. My year 12 studies and the pressure eventually got to me and I developed GAD. At the start of this year, I began to have panic attacks. Sometimes I'm scared to leave the house- others, I have good days and even forget about my anxiety completely.
While we're not the same and I don't want to belittle your situation, I think you're probably feeling very vulnerable at the moment because this is relatively new for you and much more severe than you're used to. But the quicker you get onto it, the quicker you'll be able to start making progress towards a recovery.
It's great you've been in therapy before - that will make it easier for you to go back. Have you got an established relationship with a therapist that you like?
I know how you feel. I have been in a states of high anxiety for prolonged periods of time, with only a few panic attacks that were just a little bit worse than the normal level of anxiety for me at the time. It was really horrible. Draining. I was always in a bad mood and I couldn't handle doing simple things.
If I got through it, you can get through it too. I was desperate for things to go back to how they were. It is possible to be calm again. And going through this challenge will help you appreciate day to day calmness. Things might not go back to how they were before - how things were before was making you unhappy. Things will get better, because this is a sign that you need to change your attitudes and habits. This anxiety will motivate you to change your life for the better.
You are a person that has achieved a lot. Which means that you will be able to conquer this too. No matter how difficult it seems, you do have the power to do it. Step by step, day by day. You might not realise the progress you make each day, but just keep going, and it will happen. The change will take however long it needs to take.
Emily and lior, these are amazing words. You just got me out of a new panic attack and I'm very thankful for your response. So you say that I can get back my life and do the things that I used to be able to do. That's very encouraging because right now I can't even imagine. One second can be calm, the next second im spiraling down again and it don't always have the strength to calm down...
I've been in therapy yes, but my therapist never did cbt with me. We mostly talked and analyzed. So here I am without any tools in my hand to better the situation.
At times im to week to even do the simplest of things like charging my phone. Everything becomes impossible and I worry that on this state I can't even take in the vital information and techniques to better myself.
Is there a quick way to learn useful cbt techniques for this situation?
The most effective strategy I have is to observe the anxiety instead of resisting it. So, if you find yourself worrying about something or that your anxiety/panic is building up, simply take note of the feelings and don't fight them. I find that this helps them to pass more easily. You can also try stacking- I think there's a pair on it in the top tips section of the forum; it's a good distraction in times of panic.
Best wishes :)
Thanks Emily. Do you have a link to the tips? I can't find them. I wake up already anticipating the Panic and so the cycle goes day by day for a week now. I'd be interested to know your physical sensation when under constant Anxiety. For me it's the head around the temples that gets tense and a shaking deep down.
Hi mate,
Here's the link:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=167592
You can find other threads on tips/coping in the 'top tips' forum, which is under 'remedies/success stories'.
My physical symptoms vary greatly. I've run the gamut of physical symptoms over the last year or so:
chest pain
heart palpitations
upset stomach
tingling
headaches
shakiness
wobbly legs
depersonalisation/dissociation
all kinds of weird bodily sensations (burning, jolts of electricity)
muscle twitching and cramps
muscle jerking
clumsiness
cognitive impairment (trouble with thinking/recall)
insomnia
dizziness/lightheadedness
flashing lights in eyes
The list goes on! But there's no need to fear these sensations- once you've had your GP check them out (important if you get chest pain to be sure) you can accept that they're caused by anxiety. It might make you feel ill but I know from personal experience that these sensations will pass when you get your anxiety under control :)
Thanks for all your input. You've got me through the darkest point of my life. I'm going to take some time off the forum to digest and think about all this. I will try some techniques and center myself. I'm making huge progress already. I'll be back ��
Thanks to you!
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-15, 04:33
Davit wrote about stacking, a useful panic strategy. He's on here every night at the moment, a fellow Canadian of yours so he should be on more when you are. Maybe he can answer any questions you have about it if you try it?
Also, Emily's solution about observing is part of Mindfulness. It’s not the only part because there are 8 elements to it but it teaches you how to observe your thoughts but to also control them by letting them float & pulling them back to centre when they stray into areas you don't want them to.
One piece of advice I would add about meditation is that you will use an induction to get started normally. This tends to be a matter of focussing on breathing. I had 3 in the one I started with. I found there were times where I was just too anxious to engage with it and I found that I could centre myself. So, I used the inductions again, not always all of them, to give me something to concentrate on to stop my mind buzzing away and this helped me re-enter.
Thanks for the stacking advice. I will try it out.
Yesterday was a good day, I had a friends over and we talked about the problem openly. They are very supportive and understanding for what I am going through. I started feeling a bit more confident and I managed to stay calm and not have a freakout until late at night again the anxiety spiked again but I managed to sleep.
Today has been awful again, i had another episode of extreme anxiety after being on the computer and trying to find a method to get out of this mess.
I wanted to ask you if you recommend that I take medication to prevent these very traumatic bad episodes because I am afraid that they will linger in my head many years from now and that I won't be able to recover because I had too much Trauma or too many bad episodes. Is it better just to numb my self completely and save myself these episodes or should I face the fear and keep pushing?
I am just so scared that things will never be the same again and if I let myself be hit by more episodes the recovery will be harder. This is my worst nightmare.
Can you confirm ?
Also, when I am in my high anxiety /panic state my brain function is very limited. Even the most trivial tasks seem impossible and I just can't get myself together sometimes for hours. After I am just afraid of the next episode.
My wife starts to get really frustrated because she can't help me. I am really scared that she will just leave me because it becomes too much to handle when I am questioning her 24/7 and I am looping with the same fears over and over again. What can I do to make this bearable for her and get through it without compromising my relationship? I discovered that this is a fear that's adding to the whole situation. I just don't want to and I cannot lose her but I feel extremely bad for what she is going through and I am worried that it may affect her mental health as well.
MyNameIsTerry
09-04-15, 10:06
The things you are saying are very common on here and to those who have been through it.
"What ifs" are common problem and they are distorted versions of how you would normally apply them because of the heat of anxiety and our lack of cognitive focus at the time. We also tend to ignore the positives, focus on negatives and not consider evidence to the contrary.
Catastrophizing is another one. The "what ifs" fuel this process as well. You are knowing thinking about your wife leaving you because of how you feel now. However, your wife isn't just thinking about now, she is thinking about your past together and your future to come. She needs to understand that this is a temporary state and with support & therapy you can overcome this and have a happy future together.
It does put a strain on things. Your wife probably feels like she is unable to help you and letting you down as we don't want to see our loves ones suffer. I'm sure any parent who has had a sick child can tell you about that far better than I ever could!
It would help her if she understood it more. Right now all she can see is how you were and how you are and she has no conception of how this can go. It can help by reading the stories of others, seeing how they coped, seeing others recovering to give her hope too and to provide her with ideas of how she can support you because she will be able to see what people are doing and how that could translate to you two.
It will certainly add to your anxiety because you are worrying about something that may never happen. This is typical of anxiety though, its nothing unusual on here.
Cognitive functions are affected by the fight or flight response. Thinking straight can be hard, remembering things can be hard, memory recall is affected, decision making ability, ability to focus and rationalise.
This is all hard at the start but it gets easier and a lot of these symptoms decrease or disappear completely. When I was talking to Emily earlier I mentioned how I was very sensitive to light & sound. I couldn't sleep easily as my street is a cut through between main roads, I would lie with my head on the pillow and hear the blood & my heart beat. Now I get none of this and its because I was so sensitised all the time, my body was on alert and this is the fear response - it heightens sensory functions and its common sense why it does that when you think about it. But because its so intense and so ongoing, when it would normally be fleeting, you notice it so much more and feel very wired from it.
Don't try to do big things right now. Recovery is all about micro goals, anything big is potentially scary or if you can't achieve it you can get depressed and admonish yourself so that your confidence fades, your self worth disappears and your self esteem really suffers. Plan small, do things bit by bit and it will come in time, it doesn't stay like this.
Honestly, there are people on here that have been in hospital because they suffered that badly and yet here they are and they are doing really well.
Medication is a double edged sword. If you do it, you have to be reasonable about how it could go. It could mean side effects and some of these can make you feel bad as well as increase anxiety. This is temporary, but its unpleasant when you are already struggling. You can do it, I've get through them twice and so have many others on here who have far more experience with meds than I do.
It can also take time to work. They may prescribe Diazepam initially to help you get onto antidepressants and this will dull it for a while but you need the longer term effects of antidepressants to keep things going. They usually start kicking in after a month though which right now will sound like a long time, but you will get through it.
Meds are also only a plaster, they are not a cure. They will reduce it and give you some breathing space and then all the rest os down to therap and healthy behaviours.
You could talk to your doctor about this.
Please try to remember that this isn't all the time either. You said you had a good day. So, its possible.
What is likely to be an issue right now as well is your reaction to the symptoms and thoughts. You will overreact, as we all have done. So, you need to learn to reduce anxiety through things like relaxation exercises and to change your response to triggers as we learn in CBT.
I don't know what others think about recovery being harder based on having more anxiety but I have found that the longer something goes on, the more it has been reinforced in your subconscious and you consciously go along with it easier. Anxiety is all about the subconscious reading signals and making associations between sensations, feelings, emotions, etc. So, the more times it is allowed to be seen something as being 'valid' the more it will trigger it again later as it knows its the right thing to do in a situation. We see anxiety as irrational, but in terms of neuroplasticity, it has done what it is supposed to do. We just have to retrain it back to before by showing it that those patterns are not required.
If you get help now, it may not get too far. If you don't and spend years suffering it, I believe it becomes harder because it has been reinforced.
Your Schema's (beliefs) change and you see being anxious as 'normal' despite hating it and when you have a good day you start to question what those feelings are ("are they 'normal'?") and it reverst back to the anxious mode.
Was there anything you were doing on the computer that triggered you? Maybe it was being overwhelmed by things to try or things you saw made you panic?
Terry, you have a gift! Thanks for the pleasant words and the advice, what you're saying about my wife and my situation sounds very rational.
Amidst the immense desperation and suffering Yesteday night, I've decided to get myself a copy of hope and help for your nerves and it helped to calm things down. I'm using some of the techniques like accepting and floating. Not reading into the thoughts and letting time pass.
As a result I've had a bearable day and I've even mastered a huge challenge. I took my wife and we went shopping. The first minutes in the car were tough and I was completely focused on my thoughts. The further we got from home the more anxious I got but I managed to control the Anxiety and see it for what it is. So the entire trip went well and I've gained some confidence in the process. I even went into some shops myself without her by my side. Today I had no major panic attack and I've even managed to do some work through our company vpn network and call some clients.
I've noticed that I'm extremely emotional and that my voice trembles from the to time. Nothing that I can really control but it signifies that I'm still very much distressed I suppose.
The biggest issue I've been having today is the feeling or fear of having a psychotic break. I don't really feel like I'm present in the world that I used to know it feels a bit like a dreamlike, extremely uncomfortable nightmarish state. Looking outside the window causes me to feel terrified. Even the faces of trusted friends cause me Anxiety. Also when I look at my wife I feel a sense of fear and alienation that scares me, I can't explain it. I wonder if my brain can handle all this consistent pressure without cracking. What's your take on this fear? Why does everything feel so scary and unfamiliar?
Regarding medication, I don't do well on them. I've tried some before and they made things worse. I'd really love to get through this without any medication. Is that possible or just stupid?
Thanks for your help again Terry
Hi again :)
A couple of things;
You sound as if you may be experiencing derealisation or dissociation. You should check out the threads on depersonalisation and derealisation or google it. I have had it too and it's much more likely that that's what you're having, rather than building up to a psychotic break. Yes, it is possible, but there's no reason to expect that you're in the early stages of psychosis... meanwhile, dp/dr are very common in people with anxiety and depression, so it's no surprise that you're experiencing it. I personally feel a little dissociated every day. Sometimes I look in the mirror and don't recognise or identify with myself/what I see (depersonalisation). It's a bit scary but a harmless part of the experience.
If you find yourself beginning to dissociate, you could try this mindfulness exercise: go through your senses and name 3 things you can experience with each. So, for instance, if I was to do it now I'd be going "I can hear the car, I can hear my parents, I can hear the door creaking, I can see that lamp, I can see my hands, I can see the mirror, I can feel my bed sheets, I can feel the pillow, I can feel my clothes..." and keep cycling through your senses. I find it really helpful.
As for the medication, it is possible to do without which is really up to you. You sound pretty determined to do so, which I think makes it much more likely that you'll be able to than someone who was unsure of themselves, for instance. Please know that using medication is not a sign of weakness but I think with therapy you could probably overcome this without taking any.
Congratulations on avoiding the panic attack and keeping up with work! Best wishes :)
Zeros, it is possible to get through it without Meds. I have improved by 80% without them in one year! And I was really bad. Not functional at all. Complete Zombie in fact.
But, what you do need, is something.
CBT works well for me, whether it be threw a Therapist, maybe on a weekly basis or from self help.
Meditation and relaxation techniques.
Change of Lifestyle and routine.
Eating healthy food, laying off of alcohol and Coffee.
The main factor is the 'Fear'. The 'What If's'. The overthinking. Overloading the brain.
If you eliminate the 'Fear', the Anxiety subsides.
And, 'Fear' is a powerful thing, that it becomes dormant in the brain even if you are not in a dangerous situation or not even thinking 'Fear'.
The 'Fear' sends messages to the brain and the body in turn reacts.
It is very powerful and this is where the 'Fight or Flight' mode comes in to practice.
To 'Fight' the 'Fear' is one of the hardest things I have had to do.
It's like standing on the edge of a cliff and jumping.
You push through the 'Fear' and you do come out the other side.
But, you have to do this knowing you will be ok. You can't do this frightened, and you have to take small steps to overcome this. Don't run before you can walk.
You have to re-train the brain so-to-speak. Put different thoughts in to your head and take it away from the 'Fear' and the 'Worry'.
CBT helps you to do this and Meditation calms the Anxiety.
A book called; 'At last a Life' by Paul David explains this better.
And, try chamomile Tea for sleeping. :)
MyNameIsTerry
10-04-15, 06:56
It does sound like a bit of DP/DR there.
Its good news that you have achieved all of that so early on. That must have been a big relief for your wife too.
Acceptance & floating can be hard to master as they kind of go against the grain with anxiety disorders but they are possible.
Some of Claire Weekes concepts such as these can be found in their own version in Mindfulness too so if you can handle trying her methods, its a good indicator that you can also try this which has some solid science behind it. I often wonder whether Weekes looked into that since its a school of Buddhism which predates he birth by a very very long time!
Some find it a little dated but then again, so is the the person who created CBT. So, sometimes more modern books help to translate it into newer researched issues around these conditions.
MyNameIsTerry...it's coincidental that you likened Claire Weekes' concepts to those of mindfulness as I thought the very same thing the other day. I'm going through it at the moment and I was reading, Self Help for your Nerves, again and thought how similar it was to the mindfulness that I was attempting to practice at the beginning of this most recent bout of anxiety. I'm finding her concept of "glimpses" quite helpful, trying to view the symptoms or anxiety from a different point of view, if only for a few moments at a time. And that's quite similar to bringing oneself back to the moment. For me, the practice of glimpsing comes a little easier.
I went through a serious breakdown similar to this a few weeks ago. I had the constant anxiety you are describing. I too don't like to take medication. So I suffered through just trying to get through each day. My husband is also amazing but I could see it wearing on him too. Mine did get better but each day is different. I still am struggling but the anxiety is no longer constant or as intense but at times it can be. I just remind myself that it will go away soon and just try to pretend I feel normal until I do. it will get better. Stay strong. We have to be the strongest, having to deal with these issues but it sure doesn't feel like it :/
MyNameIsTerry
12-04-15, 05:50
MyNameIsTerry...it's coincidental that you likened Claire Weekes' concepts to those of mindfulness as I thought the very same thing the other day. I'm going through it at the moment and I was reading, Self Help for your Nerves, again and thought how similar it was to the mindfulness that I was attempting to practice at the beginning of this most recent bout of anxiety. I'm finding her concept of "glimpses" quite helpful, trying to view the symptoms or anxiety from a different point of view, if only for a few moments at a time. And that's quite similar to bringing oneself back to the moment. For me, the practice of glimpsing comes a little easier.
Yes, "glimpses" is something that you are introduced quite early on in Mark Williams Frantic World book as the first weeks exercise (alongside daily meditation) is to spend time sitting in a different part of the room. This is to try to see things from another angle. Its a gentle introduction to what comes later.
Claire Weekes was way ahead of her time and from reading bits about her principles (I haven't read her books) and talking to others on here, some of her concepts seem to be in Mindfulness. I do wonder whether she came to those conclusions herself or whether she researched various practices to find whhat she thought would work.
This is really good though because practices llike Mindfulness now have accepted clinical evidence behind them in their reinvented forms of MBSR & MBCT.
Its good to hear this from someone who is familiar in both.
I hadn't heard of the Mark Williams book, I'll maybe give it a try, thanks. Oddly enough, I tried sitting in another chair and seeing myself from that perspective, a few months ago. I felt an overwhelming compassion for that me and that I was the very best friend i could ever have. It was very powerful but I haven't tried it since...maybe because it was so alien for me to experience that feeling.
Hey Friends,
The last 2 days have been not so good again. Somehow I woke up yesterday and quickly spiraled into my anxiety mode again. Building on the negative emotions/feeling that I had that day I started feeling quite a bit of panic again....
DP/DR and the dizziness along with the pressure around the temples are really the worst of the symptoms and keep me locked inside my head for hours. This in turn leads to a feeling of doom and hopelessness.
I realized that staying at home and pacing around makes everything so much worse. I just need to get out there again and reestablish confidence in myself.
I'm reading hope and help for your nerves & Mindfulness: A practical guide to finding peace in a frantic world at the moment. I feel like these 2 books go well together.
Today I think I may have made a mistake by reading "When Panic Attacks" by David D. Burns
I read the first 80 pages up until the first exercises with the Daily Mood log.
Also there was a big chapter explaining how Antidepressants, especially SSRI's are a scam and practically useless as there is no major study that documents their positive or anti-depressant/anxiety effects at all.
The evidence put forth in that chapter is quite compelling and Dr. David Burns doesn't recommend using Meds. as their effect is comparable to Placebo pills.
My view on Meds. has not been radically different form his over the last years but since I've been hit by this wave of panic and since it is so distressing I was happy (in the back of my head) to know that if nothing works, at least I can go on Meds and maybe things will get better. I feel that this book as ruined this option for me. Let me tell you that I was always very afraid of the potential side-effects of Meds, I feel like they should be avoided AT ALL COST. Especially Post-SSRI sexual dysfunction (PSSD) scares me to bits.
At the same time I am very doubtful of the strategies put forth by Dr. David D. Burns
He presents some 50 Methods that can be used for dealing with Anxiety/Obsessions, you name it.
As I understood, the cornerstone of his treatment is the Daily Mood log in which you daily document a situation that causes you anxiety and you analyze the thoughts that you are having and classify them by severity, belief, and Cognitive distortion. After that you write down a positive thought that neutralizes this thought in order to change your thinking. He describes how many of his patients were magicially cured by following his method but I find it very superficial and hard to believe.
Also I am troubled by the idea that this 'analyzing' of the thoughts might actually be unproductive in my state. Hope and Help for your nerves and A practical guide to finding peace in a frantic world advise to accept the thoughts and turn of the auto pilot. Just letting them be there and not to go into them in great detail. This contradiction really turned my head into mush today and caused my anxiety to spike.
I feel like all these years I've been using some of the techniques put forth by David Burns. I've been doing a lot of mental exposure by always digging up the thought and processing it over and over (obsessing I guess?) Also I've always been trying to neutralize the thought by rationalizing it and finding ways to disprove it.
What I am trying to say is that I am worried that by reading these books and conflicting methods of therapy/techniques I might actually use my trusted, self-conceived method of dealing with my pain/problems/obsessions/panic in the past. It was not very effective but at least I was doing what I had to do in my life, I was able to work, my relationship was intact. I am scared that introducing new methods and ways of thinking might actually do more harm than good. What's your view on that?
I just don't know what books to really stick to. If mindfulness is the way to go or if I should really go for the super-structured and 'homework' based CBT approach of Dr. David Burns.
Intuitively I find that the methods of Claire Weekes have a more calming effect on me but I fear that I will be ignoring the real problems by following that path.
How do you deal with it?
Zeros, I've been where you are today, totally confused and wondering which approach to take towards my anxiety, then chopping and changing from one to the other. I've reached the stage where I go with what feels right at the time...
For you, it seems that Claire Weekes and mindfulness are right for you at the moment. And that's okay. In the future you might return to David Burns. Or you might not. No one has all the answers. David Burns might be right about medication, but he may be wrong. If it helps you to think that medication could be a safety net in the future, don't let anyone persuade you otherwise. We go through enough hell with anxiety without allowing other peoples opinions to confuse us. Ultimately we have our own wisdom within (even though it may seem well hidden at times!) and we can trust it to lead us where we need to go. I know our confidence takes a bashing when we're going through it, but we are still able to know which material feels right at that moment.
When a book has a calming effect on me, I know it's the right book for that moment because it takes a lot to calm me when I'm anxious. Trust yourself that you will always know which approach is best for you at any given time.
Agnes, thanks for the calming words ;-)
I think that's what I'm going to do. I am going to hit myself with a full working day tomorrow. I will just do what I've been doing before all of this went down and I have a good feeling about it. I don't care anymore. The last thing that I will be doing is sitting at home surrendering to my imagined fate.. I will try to not take life to seriously,i found that works fell for me. In the end we have these few years on the planet and we decide, willingly or unwillingly to make a big drama out of these few precious years we have.
I've invested so much work in myself, I will not let myself down over some emotional and cognitive delusions. Everyone is different, I just can't go on reading other people's struggles and imitate whatever they are feeling because it's just not right. People have different circumstances, histories and brains and I need to start respecting these differences.
I will let you know how that went!
Hey Friends,
I am doing much better, practically able to do everything that I was able to do before the crisis. Of course there is some base anxiety left but its nothing I can't handle. I hope that the recovery will continue smoothly as it has been over the last few days.
Key was that I dared to get out and expose myself to my biggest fears and it worked out for the better. I am regaining confidence daily. The only thing that I am still dealing with right now is occasional DP/DR or maybe even the mere obsession with developing chronic DP/DR because of my obsessional nature. I should have not visited the DP/DR forums where I read about all these people who have been suffering from it for so long.
It is normal for me to get some DP/DR when I get overly anxious or when I am sleep deprived but since I looked it up I have a name/label for it now which really doesn't help since I tend to worry about developing these conditions myself. In a way this 'panic crisis' was related to my obsession about developing Agoraphobia in the first place so I should keep off the forums and just go on with my life.
All in all I think this crisis has taught me a valuable lesson - I need to take care of myself and make some deep changes in my life. The anxiety is real and it feeds of my unhealthy lifestyle and this is where I will begin to make the change.
Mindfulness sounds like a great tool (at least in theory) to achieve just that. I will give it a real shot and commit to the exercises. One thing that I also found useful is the 4-7-8 Breathing Exercise which you can look up online. I will practice this as well.
I really hope that I can wash my mind free of this DP/DR obsession and I that things will start to feel like the way they used to. I am not even sure If I am having it right now but I am definitely anxious about it so I am listening in (which is not good) Keeping the thoughts at bay Is no easy task as you might all know.
I would like to thank all of you, especially Emily and Terry for being there for me in my darkest hour and helping me through! It means the world to me and I am forever in your debt. If any of you need my help be sure to PM me anytime - as you have been there for me I will be there for you.
Jake
MyNameIsTerry
16-04-15, 06:29
Today I think I may have made a mistake by reading "When Panic Attacks" by David D. Burns
I read the first 80 pages up until the first exercises with the Daily Mood log.
Also there was a big chapter explaining how Antidepressants, especially SSRI's are a scam and practically useless as there is no major study that documents their positive or anti-depressant/anxiety effects at all.
The evidence put forth in that chapter is quite compelling and Dr. David Burns doesn't recommend using Meds. as their effect is comparable to Placebo pills.
At the same time I am very doubtful of the strategies put forth by Dr. David D. Burns
He presents some 50 Methods that can be used for dealing with Anxiety/Obsessions, you name it.
As I understood, the cornerstone of his treatment is the Daily Mood log in which you daily document a situation that causes you anxiety and you analyze the thoughts that you are having and classify them by severity, belief, and Cognitive distortion. After that you write down a positive thought that neutralizes this thought in order to change your thinking. He describes how many of his patients were magicially cured by following his method but I find it very superficial and hard to believe.
I've highlighted some bits in bold that stand out for me.
Antidepressants are licenced in our countries based on clinical evidence that our licencing bodies see as acceptable. These should be robust processes to vet studies and dismiss those that have not adhered to a strict standard that is acceptable in the medical world.
I haven't read anything by this guy. He has an impressive pedigree but some of the things he is saying that you have put here remind me of the "guru's" out there that are very dubious.
As for magical cures, no chance, never with anxiety. I just can't believe that one after going through it. My logical side also raises the question "if a highly respected award winning professor came up with such a cure, why isn't it used worldwide as the cost savings to our governments would be huge". Again, I see gurus making claims like this and they have no evidence to back it up but I find it strange in someone with his background.
I agree with Agnes. There are hundreds & thousands of books out there and many of them are only saying the same things. There is a tendency for anxiety sufferers to buy book after book in search of a cure and this gets exploited. Research and narrow it down to a few that mean more to you and go from there.
I've just read a fair bit of one of his articles where he not only concluded antidepressants as no better than placebo but also CBT and all forms of modern psychotherapy. Then it moves onto the form or therap he created...see where I'm going with this? Guru territory here.
He seems to be suggesting that anyone who did recover from therapy other than his own or medication did it because they found their own way out of the trap. He also has a statistic of 30-50% of people given a placebo but told they had received medication became cured also.
I'm very skeptical about people like this. They often have a habit of quoting studies that back their opinions so you have to read them and see what reputanle sources say because they may be studies that have been debunked and there may be evidence to the contrary in other studies.
It all seems a bit fishy to me!
---------- Post added at 06:29 ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 ----------
Hey Friends,
I am doing much better, practically able to do everything that I was able to do before the crisis. Of course there is some base anxiety left but its nothing I can't handle. I hope that the recovery will continue smoothly as it has been over the last few days.
Key was that I dared to get out and expose myself to my biggest fears and it worked out for the better. I am regaining confidence daily. The only thing that I am still dealing with right now is occasional DP/DR or maybe even the mere obsession with developing chronic DP/DR because of my obsessional nature. I should have not visited the DP/DR forums where I read about all these people who have been suffering from it for so long.
It is normal for me to get some DP/DR when I get overly anxious or when I am sleep deprived but since I looked it up I have a name/label for it now which really doesn't help since I tend to worry about developing these conditions myself. In a way this 'panic crisis' was related to my obsession about developing Agoraphobia in the first place so I should keep off the forums and just go on with my life.
All in all I think this crisis has taught me a valuable lesson - I need to take care of myself and make some deep changes in my life. The anxiety is real and it feeds of my unhealthy lifestyle and this is where I will begin to make the change.
Mindfulness sounds like a great tool (at least in theory) to achieve just that. I will give it a real shot and commit to the exercises. One thing that I also found useful is the 4-7-8 Breathing Exercise which you can look up online. I will practice this as well.
I really hope that I can wash my mind free of this DP/DR obsession and I that things will start to feel like the way they used to. I am not even sure If I am having it right now but I am definitely anxious about it so I am listening in (which is not good) Keeping the thoughts at bay Is no easy task as you might all know.
I would like to thank all of you, especially Emily and Terry for being there for me in my darkest hour and helping me through! It means the world to me and I am forever in your debt. If any of you need my help be sure to PM me anytime - as you have been there for me I will be there for you.
Jake
Keep at it Jake, you are doing really well! :yesyes:
Thanks for the encouragement but also for your interesting view on the book im reading. I suppose it's always important to take it with a grain of salt.
I've got another 5 day business trip to Chicago scheduled in 2 weeks and I'm quite anxious about it actually.
Would you guys recommend me taking the trip and trying myself again? To be honest my gut is telling me to skip out on it because I don't feel ready, things are still very fresh and just the thought of being away and possibly getting into the same panic again terrifies me.
Any recommendation what I should do?
Thanks for your help once again
Jake
MyNameIsTerry
17-04-15, 05:27
Its a tricky call, Jake.
At first, you are bound to feel anxious about doing it again, thats only natural.
Part of me thinks its quite soon but another part of me thinks "look at all this stuff Jake has done in the last week which takes some of us months!". Then I also think about how this is much closer to home because wasn't it Brazil last time? At least in Chicago if something did happen, you have more options with it being closer to your country?
Its hard for people to say. I would definately ask for your wife's opinion as she knows you better than anyone and will have been observing your progress very closely.
If you do go, perhaps you need to be mindful of certain signs and make sure you plan in time to look after yourself with any exercises you do currently. Plan your trips to be less of a rush as that is going to make anyone anxious and you need more calm in your life right now.
2 Weeks is a long time when you look at the progress you have made in the last week. Maybe you could see how it goes in the next few days?
I am definitely going to see how things process in the next days and make my decision based on how comfortable I feel.
I am a bit surprised by the speed of my recovery and I don't really trust it to be honest. The difference between last week and this week is day and night. I am able to manage my anxiety in any situation now. It seems like I've even improved in dealing with anxiety as compared to before I had my crisis. Interesting...
MyNameIsTerry
18-04-15, 04:27
Thats really good news, Jake. Perhaps by doing some research you have learnt a bit more about your condition and what works for you.
I was the same in that respect. I only ever relied on my GP. When I went for CBT, it opened my eyes to other possibilities and I learnt more from places like this and reading that in CBT.
Keep going and see where it all takes you. Hopefully it will bring longer term gains in your OCD too.
Hi jake,
This is a very explicit and detailed account of Severe panic disorder.
I travelled the world.
I got a science degree and did this whilst having a baby and as a single mum, several years after graduating , working for the NHS and moving onto teacher training, I had a MAJOR breakdown and the panic you describe I your experience, WAS exactly what I'd experience every day. I've had a harder life than most, I'm not at all saying that people don't have bad time and trying to sound like a martyr here, but, I have had it incredibly hard. And tried to get head down and plough through it all, unfortunately I underestimated the power of the brain and eventually although I felt able to cope, I obviously couldn't and my brain was on mega shut down.
I tried to carry n throw myself into the class room everyday for my training and attend seminars at uni, complete course work, come home to my new house decorate and have fun with the kids, but even by throwing myself in to try and overcome this ( which works for some individuals) but shockingly one particular day 4th feb 2011 - MEGA meltdown.
I had to quit my Teacher training. So All Id worked for with a young kid in tow, whilst all the crap around me, had been for nothing! I'm career crazy btw.
I couldn't even drive 5 mins to take kid to school I'd be having palpitations and my heart would race. Went on for weeks.
I ended up agrophobic. Couldn't even go to the corner shop without it seeming like I was travelling to space.
My kids suffererd as I found park trips etc stressfull, busy etc.
Supermarkets ..... A nightmare.
And I suffer with migraines so .... Light sensitivity developed through panic. As when ever I'd walk from light to shade my heart would pound!
NO Ive NOT managed to get back to work! A fellow peer who left uni with a lower classification of degree, same time as me , I keep googling as in the time I've been at home, she's done a phd and now post doc researcher. And I couldn't even complete my1 years post grad teacher training .... Income gone as well. We've been SKINT ever since. Money worries galore.
Look dont give up, you really do learn to manage the panic, as you've seen and experienced it all before. But don't think it's over and yes I'm sorry it does change your life , no matter how positive and strong you try and be. No one stronger than me and tbh, it's stolen sooo much and my quality of life has been poor! Although now im better in comparison, I'm still afflicted by this! You can't erase your memory, I suppose.
Eat well, sleep well, tapping exercises, small steps, yoga or mindfulness might help?
Take care C x
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