View Full Version : do i just deal with the anxiety on my own now.
hi as you all can see from my prieviouse posts ive struggled to deal with my anxiety over the yrs and struggle with it on a daily basis, ive had cbt 3/4 timesover the past 4 yrs which did help a bit and have learned afewthings to help me but cannot have anymore help because Im not on medication because im too petriefied to take them, I went to see my gp yesterday because I was having intrusive thoughts which was making me so scared and upset,but the doc I saw didnt seem to care and just said they are thoughts , and gave me a pecription for ANTS I never can see the same doctor at my surgery so every time I have to try and explain how I am and because you only have ten mins to talk to them they don't seem to listen and all they say is contact IAPT, I try to explain that I cant get help from them nomore because the last therapist had last april said because I wont take meds, so every time I have to try and explain the reasons why im so scared to take them just but each time they just give me a prisciption for antidepressants and send me on my way. so I don't know wat to do now for the best, take the meds no matter how frightened am or just try and deal with on my own , sorry for long post just wanted to get it of my chest
I would say,if you are still in a bad eay and cbt didnt work for you,it might be time to try meds,if nothing eles is working.its hard taking the meds for the first time because we have all read bad things about the side effects,but not everyone gets them.what has he prescribed you ? Prehaps start on a very low dose and build it up slowley..try to get yourself refered to the mental health team,there much better than the GP..they asses you and talk about all your fears of taking meds.then you will be under there care and they do help more than the gp..you get to sit down and talk to someone for over a hr and unlike the gp,they listen and draw up a plan for you..good luck
hi Gregg thk you for replying the doc gave me citromal think that's how you spell it 10mg, as for the metal health team I contacted them in nov last yr and they said because I don't want to harm myself and managed to go out i.e go local shop or if I have to go someware I really need to go they said they cant help me and to once again take meds xx
Oh thats a shame they wont help you.im under there care at the moment..and they are going to offer me sessions with them and review my meds.i guess you have to lay it on a bit thicker to your doctor to get refered.i havnt heard of that med,but see in the sub forums if theres anyone on it,thet might be able to give you some advice about taking it..what you have to remember,if you take them and get any side effects,they are only temp and if you cant handle them,stop taking the meds and they will soon go..its worth a try,you never know,they may just work for you...ill be changing my meds soon,which will meen coming off the ones im allready on,so im not looking forward to that,but i want to get better so willing to give it a go
---------- Post added at 12:40 ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 ----------
Not sure you have spelt your meds right.iv looked on the internet and comes up with nothing to do with anti Depresants
think I spelled it wrong Gregg it citalopram, is the mental heath team the same as the crisis team, and can I ask its anxiety or depression u suffer from x
I know the drug..i suffer with anxiety and depression..there is a sub forum for that med in the main page of NMP..have a look and see what others say
---------- Post added at 15:27 ---------- Previous post was at 15:26 ----------
Hears the link for the sub furum on that med
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=49
Juliette14
08-04-15, 15:31
Hi Trcia56, i struggled for many yaers with anxiety but i came to a really bad point, i tried CBT but was only getting worse, finally had no choice than try meds, i cried for 2 weeks before taking the first pill, I was so scared, the anxiety made me so scared of medication. The first weeks the side effects were horrid, but I stuck to it until it got better. I don't think that CBT was not working, as it seems to be working now, but with the meds I am at a better place to be able to work on CBT and process the information, I am calmer, I haver a better way of thinking, more logical. Without the meds my mind was not clear enough to be able to work on CBT.
I did it with out meds, You need information with CBT you need to know why CBT works, not just do it. You need good coping skills and an understanding of how and why hey work and if you can not do this clearly on your own you need meds.
Hi Juliette, I guess you just said this.
Juliette14
08-04-15, 19:22
Hi Davit :) Knowing how CBT works really helps! when I was doing CBT on the NHS, my therapist did not explain, I beleive this was one of the reason it did not work for me. Now that I am on meds and that I know more about it, I can work on CBT and it does make a difference.
hi davit thks for advice , I do know how cbt how and why it works and have learned coping skills from it but cbt cannot cover everything what you are suffreing with reguarding your anxiety as everyones anxiety is unique to them from what ive been told, and you only have about 8wks on the courses so they cant go thro everything in that time, so i never had help from the therapists with how to deal with the intrusive thoughts or a explanation on why i get them, so i think that is why i find it difficult to deal with the intrusive thoughts. as for meds yes i am petried of takings them but i cant help the way i am reguarding meds.
You are intitled to a long period with your doctor not just 10 mins, ask the receptionist for a longer session (usually) 20mins.
MyNameIsTerry
09-04-15, 05:20
You are intitled to a long period with your doctor not just 10 mins, ask the receptionist for a longer session (usually) 20mins.
It seems to depend on surgery rules.
My GP told me to book afternoon sessions as they give double slots. The double slots are 10 mins in total!
Hald of that has always been wasted by him checking various things like am I take my prescription, do I need a FIT note, etc. Box ticking exercise really because I could just have emailed it on most of the time.
To be fair, whilst this seems to be how most of the people in my area are handled that I have spoken, I did once speak to a guy who praised his GP because she gave him 30 minutes which is great. Back in the old days before it all became about timeslots, it used to be like that at my surgery. GP's took as long as they needed and the result was queues and long waiting times. People hate waiting, but in our case this would have been better. Broken system basically.
What do you mean by intrusive thoughts? No matter where they come from they have to pass through memory before you can get a reaction. Page three, free at last thread, panic triangle. See if this helps.
MyNameIsTerry
09-04-15, 05:50
Tricia,
IAPT are only there to supply Level 2 & 3 care. Interestingly, IAPT are now rolling out a new treatment based on Dynamic Psychanalysis called Dynamic Interpersonal Therapy (DIT) so they've obviously finally realised that CBT doesn't work for everyone. If that therapy could help you, IAPT's are starting to offer it. Its not NICE approved but they are monitoring it and IAPT is the NHS afterall. See here for further information http://www.d-i-t.org/
I would also have a read of NICE guidelines:
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg113/chapter/1-guidance
They can refer you to a Level 4 service above IAPT. These were the services that were always arounf before IAPT came along. They were always hard to access as they concentrated on more serious mental illness and complex cases and even now they can take a while to access, generally longer than CBT.
This is what Greg is talking about. Your GP's know that this is there.
These services offer full psychotherapy services so you get a greater range of treatment as seen in the link below, plus all the extra support that GP's are not equipped to handle.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Psychotherapy/Pages/Introduction.aspx
I realise you have had a few rounds of CBT but GP's are well aware of the services beyond that. I do know that from talking to another member on here, these services are not available in their area for anxiety & depression which must be a funding issue because before IAPT they were the only service you could be referred to. This may not be the case for you, because in my area we can access it, but I have to make you aware of this.
---------- Post added at 05:50 ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 ----------
Tricia,
Please discuss intrusive thoughts with us because we have OCD sufferers on here. Intrusive thoughts are experienced by all people as proven in studies, including those without anxiety disorders because they don't realise, but it is a central theme in several forms of OCD.
I have suffered form intrusive thoughts and got rid of them now. I say got rid of, but you can't completely do this because they are experienced by everyone. However, my reaction is no longer with anxiety thus they float straight through in seconds. I even laugh at some of them now.
If you feel uncomfortable due to the theme, thats fine, but you should know there are people on here that can talk to you about this. Please look at the OCD board as you will see people discussing themes such as sexual images, harm, paedophilia thoughts, etc and its all OCD and can be seen on the charities websites, the psychiatrists literature, etc.
Please read the stories on there.
hi thk terry for your kind advice, and speak to my gp .I do try to help myself but and do what ive been learned from cbt but for some reason I don't keep it up, terry i seem to get worse when I start to get the intrusive thoughts because I start to think why did I get that thought will they make me act on them is my mind trying to tell me something are they real and then I spriall from there, and think am I going crazy ,sorry terry I just wanted to tell someone this is how i think because it does scare me.
MyNameIsTerry
09-04-15, 12:52
That's ok Tricia,
I'm just logging off until tonight when I'll add something with detail but I wanted to say that that is exactly what anyone I have spoken to on here about intrusive thoughts has said. It's a very well known issue that the charities have covered such as OCD UK and they state that you won't act on these thoughts because of how they make you feel.
I'll explain that it more detail later though.
Please have a look at Andy's thread on the OCD board which explains all about this by a few of us. His started when he read an article about Jimmy Saville. There is nothing graphic on it.
MyNameIsTerry
10-04-15, 04:56
Hi Tricia,
I wanted to let you know that I have had harm based thoughts during my relapse, mostly of harming strangers but I've also had the classic ones about self half with things like knives, strange urges to jump when standing on a bridge, etc.
I think OCD manifests itself as a lack of trust in yourself as well and tries to "egg you on" to do things this way that challenge your core beliefs.
I'm still here and I've never done anything or remotely tried to. The thoughts triggered no physical reaction other than anxiety or confusion & rumination over why I thought that.
I live in a typical working class city where the old industries have long since died out. There are plenty if rough areas and I have lived in one of them for a long time now. So, I have come across nutters and what I can tell you is they don't care who they hurt, they just do it. There is no thinking about the consequences, morals or laws, they do it. They don't feel remorse, compassion or any sense of wrongdoing unless they are arrested and it gives them the chance to obtain a lesser sentence.
Compare that to the OCD sufferer who thinks they 'could' hurt someone. They are terrified of these thoughts, suffer great shame & guilt over them and withdraw from situations just in case it could happen.
Does that sound like the type of nutter who you read about in the papers who violently attacks or murders someone? Have any of those court cases ever mentioned that this person was torn by intrusive thoughts? No.
So, if that applies to me, it will also apply to you. You won't act on your thoughts. Why? Because as stated in all literature about this condition, you are disgusted by them, react with anxiety & panic, experience fear about the possibility, etc.
You may even experience times, as it progresses, where you feel as if you might 'like' them. I've been there with mine and it’s not real. This is just an advancement of the condition because your subconscious as incorrectly made more associations between images, thoughts, feelings, sensations and emotions. It’s as illogical as all other anxiety forms are in that respect.
So, please read about OCD on the board for it on here, read about it on OCD Action, OCD UK, MIND, Rethink, etc. Its all common stuff to those charities.
Intrusive thoughts are experienced by all people including those without anxiety disorders as shown in studies. They just didn’t realise until researchers showed them how to spot them. I guess they just pass through very quickly without attention from the conscious mind.
You are not alone in it. There don't seem to be many people with OCD on here but there are some of us as you will see on that board. At least one on there also has HA. I have GAD & OCD, I'm not the only one from speaking to others on there.
My intrusive thoughts don't bother me anymore. I tried CBT and it didn't work much for me and I discovered that my OCD was being held in place by my GAD. I switched to working on my GAD and the result was a reduction of OCD alongside the GAD. In fact, when I get them, which is very infrequent nowadays, my reaction is either neutral, accepting they are garbage or even with amusement at how daft it all is.
My therapist introduced me to Mindfulness and it worked far more for me. I found after a couple of months that I was seeing progress. 6+ months down the line and my attitude suddenly experienced a change and I found myself feeling more compassionate & possitive. Mindfulness has been studied with MRI's to show it stimulates the areas associated with compassion and over 8 weeks shows a decrease in density of the fear centre (the right Amygdala) and an increase in density in the inula (associated with compassion).
I also found myself going back to my CBT goals and I started achieving them.
Also, CBT isn't the only recommendation at the level you will be at. I had never heard of Applied Relaxation treatment. That might help you.
Hi Tricia,
Is there a particular reason you don't want to take the medication? I understand that something about it is frightening you. Perhaps it might be helpful to sit down and discuss this worry with your doctor and work towards finding a way to take the medication. I understand that not everyone is pro-medication, but sometimes it really is the best option when someone hasn't had much success with something like CBT.
With regard to your intrusive thoughts, those are generally the most difficult to treat, and this is probably one of the main reasons you have been prescribed a medication. Medication is usually the quickest way to reduce intrusive thoughts, and is very commonly used with people who are experiencing anxiety with prominent intrusive thoughts or OCD-like traits. As Terry mentioned, Mindfulness can also be helpful in dealing with intrusive thoughts, as well as a therapeutic intervention called "Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT)".
MyNameIsTerry
11-04-15, 07:17
Hi Tricia,
Is there a particular reason you don't want to take the medication? I understand that something about it is frightening you. Perhaps it might be helpful to sit down and discuss this worry with your doctor and work towards finding a way to take the medication. I understand that not everyone is pro-medication, but sometimes it really is the best option when someone hasn't had much success with something like CBT.
With regard to your intrusive thoughts, those are generally the most difficult to treat, and this is probably one of the main reasons you have been prescribed a medication. Medication is usually the quickest way to reduce intrusive thoughts, and is very commonly used with people who are experiencing anxiety with prominent intrusive thoughts or OCD-like traits. As Terry mentioned, Mindfulness can also be helpful in dealing with intrusive thoughts, as well as a therapeutic intervention called "Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT)".
I'm not sure how we get access to ACT, anthrokid. I can only assume that you have to be referred to the teams that deal with complex mental health issues or refractory anxiety/depression who are more psychologists. Prior to them NICE guidance seems to just be CBT or applied relaxation for anxiety and CBT or IPT for depression.
I found using Mindfulness was a good way to reduce anxiety & OCD but I then found myself starting to work on the CBT goals again. So, maybe something can be used to reduce overall anxiety levels (which is really all the meds are doing for us) and then try CBT again as you will be more open to challenges?
I'm dealing with anxiety on my own, Tricia. I'm not a strong person but I'm taking responsibility for my own mental health as I'm not impressed by what my local NHS mental health services can offer. For me it's not worth the hassle or frustration. I have an anxiety disorder and OCD and life is challenging but I'm still breathing (although that can be a problem sometimes with breathing hyper-awareness!:D)
It can and is done by many people out there. Yes there is medication and there are multitudes of therapies (mostly CBT on the NHS- loads of other stuff privately of course) but you can also choose to sit tight and deal with issues in your own way.
MyNameIsTerry
11-04-15, 08:58
I'm not a strong person
Don't sell yourself short Pulisa, strength is defined in many ways and fighting any anxiety disorder, especially under your personal circumstances, is strength to me. If we didn't have strength we wouldn't be on here trying to recover anyway for a start.
I'm still breathing (although that can be a problem sometimes with breathing hyper-awareness!:D)
God yes! This one is a very frustrating problem! It makes me glad I haven't got Sensorimotor OCD!
I can't even think of breathing per se without wretched OCD kicking in! My brain loves to throw that one at me when I'm feeling relatively OK just to keep me on my toes!
I'm a quivering wreck at times, Terry-honestly! Over the most trivial of things but then it's all relative as regards what sets us off.
I think what we can learn on NMP is just as useful as what we can learn off the "experts" and sometimes the simple things are just as effective as the more complex stuff. I don't really understand the nuances between all these different therapies as bog standard CBT is all that is on offer in my area.
Ah, thank you for reminding me of that, Terry. I forget easily that, whilst I know these things and use them, they aren't readily accessible for everyone, particularly in other regions. Yes, I imagine you would have to be referred to a psychologist for ACT. Yes, NICE guidelines do tend to solely recommend CBT because that is what the majority of people respond to. I guess the benefit of seeing a psychologist is that they are trained to use multiple intervention strategies, so if CBT doesn't appear to work particularly well, they can incorporate other therapeutic techniques such as mindfulness and ACT.
This website has some pretty good CBT based resources for dealing with generalised anxiety, health anxiety and panic attacks, as well as a range of other things. It provides you with a whole set of modules to work through, in your own time :)
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/infopax.cfm?Info_ID=46 (generalised anxiety)
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/infopax.cfm?Info_ID=37 (depression)
MyNameIsTerry
12-04-15, 06:00
Thanks anthrokid, I've seen others using resources on that website and I often post links to the tools in the download section. It seems a good site so I'm sure they will be of help. There are some threads on the therapt board about ACT and I'm sure I can remember someone saying they had been referred for it. I know of 2 people on here that have been referred for Mindfulness training but I got the impression it was a shorter course than 8 weeks. Whilst we are on the subject, and it might help Tricia, my local mental health charity now offers an introduction to Mindfullness course and universities sometimes run studies of it and ask for volunteers (there are acouple from late last year on the media interest board) so maybe there is an option there? Some universities offer free or low cost therapy because they use their graduates under supervision to perform it. I think there is one in Manchester that does this but there could be ones elsewhere.
Pulisa - its the same in my area. Guided self help which is CBT based or high intensity therapy which is CBT. The annoying thing is that now I have read NICE guidelines I can see that I could have accessed online CBT (like on here), had book prescriptions (which I was offered when I got to the guided self help stage) and there is also Applied Relaxation with a practitioner. So, why isn't any of that happening? I can understand a practitioner being a matter of resources but the CCBT's that NICE recommend (and I think NHS Choices) are sitting on websites waiting to be used! A GP could offer access to those and book presciptions. As ever, a broken system!! Now I have had CBT, I can't easily have it again as the IAPT service said it was uncommon which must mean they don't like doing it since CBT isn't working the first time around for everyone and I think a second round is a possible good thing as you've likely moved on past the worst stages by then.
There are the multi disciplined Level 4 teams which anthrokid has explained before can offer more integrated therapy but the waiting lists are enoumous. I remember lior saying she was referred to her local one and they said they only treat schizonphrenia & bipolar. Since she included the area of the service, I lloked it up and couldn't find the word "anxiety" mentioned anywhere!
I've learnt loads off here and ir was a springboard for me to research my condition before I joined. I found the walk-in groups useful too as face-to-face contact is useful in building up confidence. One of the problems with how things work is that CBT therapists do CBT and GP's 'should' do everything else. GP's haven't got the time as we get very little appointment time as opposed to years ago (I often say they could sit us on a conveyor belt when we go in!) and they don't want to get into diet, exercise, deficiencies, anything outside of basic anxiety, etc unless you push them whereas on here, you get all of that and often to a great deal of detail.
hi just had a fone assessment over the fone with IAPT this morning as my gp told me to ring them again about getting help with dealing with my intrusive thoughts and they lady I spoke to said that the cbt wouldn't benieft me as ive done cbt 4 times before and because I already know what I should do and have done all the basic tools to help me but cbt doesnt really focus on the emotional side and feels that I would benieft more by councilling as the cbt hasn't really helped me in that way and has missed something, as maybe I haven't dealt with something in the past and maybe with councilling and maybe get answers as why im the way I and maybe understanding things better it will help me move forward, im not too sure if that would really help me as some people say that councilling can be abad thing for some people, so i thought id ask on here what they think or if they have had councilling and it helped them.
Maybe the CBT didn't work because you are too scared to let it work, or you feel it seems to simple? For example, maybe however hard you try to believe that the anxiety is rootless and just feeds itself you just keep coming back to the idea that there is something behind it instead? Perhaps this is because it is easier to think that you can just find the cause then it will all go away, so you lose interest in working on your thought patterns and focus on hoping you'll find a long lost cause. That's a trick anxiety plays on you - it tells you "you need the answer" when the answer is actually to let it all go. If you fully believed that: whatever happened in the past, it is now irrelevent and plays no part in your anxiety and the anxiety is just perpetuated by you and your state of mind...do you think the CBT would have been more help?
Also, if there is a cause and you find out why you are like this, do you think the anxiety would just stop? because I think you'd still be anxious anyway and you would still be in a state of answer-finding.
If there is something in the past you haven't dealt with, there is still the problem that you may be giving in to the anxiety and seeking reassurance for things that won't harm you. I think your biggest step forward is learning to trust in your decisions and see above what anxiety wants you to believe.
pancho im not saying that if i have councilling that i believe the anxiety will just go im not that stupid, as for the cbt im not sure why it didn't work for me maybe the therapists didn't really help me with my thought patterns, yes i am frieghtened of the anxiety and i know that's my problem even tho i know deep down it cannot harm me but no matter how much i tell my self that it still doesn't register, the reason i asked for help from cbt again was because it was my gp that told me too because of how scared i get when i get the intrusive thoughts and wanted help with coping and dealing with them because i dont know how to and yes i want answers as to why i get them so i can understand it a lot better and maybe move forward and it was IAPT who said that councilling would be good for me with help dealing with the intrusive thoughts as they cant help and also if i have got something in the past i haven't dealt with councilling may help, i only posted on here today just to ask other people if councilling helped them or not, instead i get a reply off you yet again putting me down because i feel that is wat u have done so im not going to comeback on this site nomore even tho i have had some good support and advice off some members which im so gratefull for .
I shouldn't of bothered :shrug:
pancho maybe if you could of gave me some advice on how I let it all go I wouldn't get on the offencive side and I appolize to u as it seems you know alot about anxiety and not sure if you have overcome it, I have a problem with trying to take infomation on board forsome reason
Yes I've overcome it and no I'd rather not give you more advice Tricia, you've already said you're leaving three times. You won't hear from me again. It's a bit of a kick in the face when I really try hard these days to just write a neutral, thought provoking opinion - I was rude to you a couple of years ago and I regretted it after...surely on an open forum you just have to take it or leave posts you don't agree with. I'll leave the other members give you their good support and advice, as you put it.
I don't think Pancho was being offensive, Tricia. Maybe you took it the wrong way? It's easily done online.
I know pulisa andi have a appogized to pancho and I have asked for my account to be deleted so thk you all for your kindness and support
There is CBT and there is CBT. It has to be tailored for the person. It is changing thought patterns and these can be very individual. And sorry but I have made a study of this for five years and anxiety does have a reason, it doesn't just come out of the blue no matter who says that. There is a reason. You can do CBT ten times if it is wrong for you it won't work but if it is tailored for you once will do it. It does work, but a lot of what is called CBT is not.
Anxiety is a tough thing and it makes people do things they would not normally, like being defensive.
If any one asks for my help, I will give it no matter how many times they make me mad. I might be assertive with them but I will never ever be aggressive. Aggression has no place in recovery. Nor does giving up.
MyNameIsTerry
24-04-15, 06:02
Anxiety always has a reason but whether this helps you recovery depends on your circumstances e.g. many of my initial triggers were my work and that long gone. At the most basic level, it has to start from somewhere as we are not born anxious. Anxiety can be transferred within some many parent gene generations but it still requires a process to flick the switch, known as methylation. Its interesting to read about and I think there could be a lot in it since its all off the back of a lot of cancer research and thats light years ahead of mental health.
I also think past events can be in the way. They may need re examining to change our beliefs about them, those core beliefs. CBT isn't good for this, whilst it works on core beliefs, there are other dynamic therapies that work with different techniques to remove some of the blocks. There seems to be emerging evidence of things like Schema Therapy which has worked where CBT has failed.
And as Davit says, it depends on the CBT. If you look at NICE guidelines it says 12-15 sessions but there are people on here who have reported 6 which is closer to Level 2 in Guided Self Help or Psychoeducational Groups. Things don't seem equal in the UK even now so it can be hard to understand what CBT people have had. There is a guy on the OCD board I'm talking to who doesn't seem to be getting much help at all after 4 months and his is IAPT, so standards seem varied.
I agree with Pancho that there may come a point where some people just need to work forward and take the humanistic approach which CBT can be good for as well but thats after you remove all the other elements or you risk managing a condition instead of recovering from one.
Tricia, I can't speak for counselling but there are 2 other options that you don't seem to have been made aware of:
1) If depression is part of this, there are other forms of therapy available via IAPT services such as Interpersonal Psychotherapy (IPT) and a new form being rolled out called Dynamic Interpersonal Therapy (DIT). These seem to be for depression though.
2) IAPT only cover Levels 2 & 3 in the NICE Stepped Care Model. Your GP has the ability to refer you to Level 4 where the real psychologists/psychiatrists work. This level always has longer waiting times and it seems in some areas there are funding issues meaning they seem to concentrate on more serious psychiatric conditions e.g. bi-polar, schizophrenia, etc.
So, maybe there are further options yet if the counselling doesn't work out?
hi terry thk you so much for all the infomation you give me, Im not very good at understanding what words means and I didn't know what core beliefs ment till I just looked it up, and ever since I was a child ive always believed im ugly and as i got older I always felt I wasn't good enough and felt no one loves me and always messed things up and always done what every one told me to do so they would like me or love me and even now with my children and family I i still think that way and do things for my children and family so they will love me, so maybe I needto try and change them beleifs about myself somehow
MyNameIsTerry
24-04-15, 11:16
Thats ok Tricia and I would say that Davit can give you a lot of information on core beliefs as he has covered them extensively in his CBT.
Underlying factors are always an issue whether they are there before we become anxious or occur during. Classic examples of this are self confidence, self worth, self esteem, etc and even things like self love as we tend to turn on ourselves and thats just going to make us fight with ourselves more.
So, addressing core beliefs that are negative or damaging are part of the recovery journey or they are just there pulling us back down later on and can mean relapse.
Some are more powerful than others, as Davit will be able to explain better. There is some information out there about how we have ones more related to our sense of identity which are known as schemas and these are harder to address as they are quite deep. There is even now schema therapy to address this where CBT has been shwon to fail but I doubt its well known or offered but we can try to use what we know and learn to address them.
thk you terry hopefully davit will read my post and give me some advice so thk you once again
MyNameIsTerry
25-04-15, 09:50
Bumping for Davit.
I think it's important to keep terminology as simple as possible. I won't pretend to be able to understand a lot of what is discussed on here-it may be because I'm stupid or else my brain just can't cope with information overload. Does anyone else feel the same?
For everyone not familiar with core beliefs Tricia has some negative ones. Not all core beliefs are negative but the negative ones cause anxiety and are damaging to our self esteem. Some are harder to spot and do their damage silently. Some are true also and need to be accepted. Dealing with core beliefs can be tricky.
Definition. A core belief is a rule in our brain that we follow. It can be about how we see ourselves or it can be about how to do things, but it always makes decisions for us and it can only be positive or negative. It will not change on it's own, you have to change it and this takes a lot of work. Weeks of work or if your therapist is helping, many sessions.
Davit, is it possible for people with diagnosed or undiagnosed personality disorders to modify their core beliefs? I won't say "change" as I believe this is too much of a sweeping statement.
Pulisa
You never change core beliefs because you can't remove anything from memory, what you do is build new ones and then with a CBT technique change the access to memory so you don't use the old one. The mind works on appropriate, it doesn't understand if something is right or wrong for that we need to make the decision. And this decision becomes a core belief. To get this core belief to over ride the old one we need repetition and reinforcement to make it appropriate so the mind will use it. This repetition and reinforcement is what takes the time. In the case of cores like ugly and stupid, it helps to install them if some one helps by showing you that you are not what you think, they must be serious and patient because you need a lot of repetition and the least doubt will reinforce the old core.
Once the new core belief is accepted and installed it becomes very hard to change, just like the original one and if you do go back to the old one then all you will think is that one was and still is wrong. It is still there but neutralized. This is in CBT language changing thought patterns.
If you do this on your own you can speed it up by looking in a mirror and saying what you want to change out loud. The expression on your face will tell you if it will work, if you can not smile and say what you want to change then you don't believe it. (Smiling in a mirror is also a coping skill) You can not smile with your whole face and think negative. Writing what you want to change helps too.
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Pulisa
People get misdiagnosed with BPD.
There are two distinct different personalities and everything in between. They are referred to as apples and oranges because of their difference. Since the industrial revolution there have been more apples. If you are an orange you will get all kinds of labels from the apples. You will get used too. That is just how it is. People who discover there anxiety stemmed from being an orange in an apple world are amazed that it is that simple. Apples are go getters who know exactly what they want and how to get it. Apples are collectors. They use the word my a lot. There possessions are important. My Car, my house, my team, my family, my wife. We all do, but they do it in a possessive way. Money is very important to them as is climbing the ladder.
Oranges are compassionate, creative, proud of their accomplishments, (which they seldom get praise for unless something is wanted of them) more inclined to be cautious making friends but very loyal. Oranges are more prone to anxiety. Apples pass on there anxiety to others by complaining (venting about every little thing) Oranges are assertive, apples are aggressive. Pure oranges stay to themselves but can be called on to help. Both are social but have different motives. Oranges have a hard time putting a price on something because money isn't important as long as there is enough. Apples are more prone to suicide, drinking and crime. But not all go this far.
Relationships should not cross in the pure apple pure orange groups, they don't last.
But fortunately few fit the pure form of either. I'm that rare thing, a pure orange. And although I don't fit the world as it is, it doesn't matter, I have fit the world to me.
I have been misdiagnosed as Bi-polar, not even close. I have been misdiagnosed as social anxiety, not close but I do enjoy my own company and space. I don't need people to fill it.
MyNameIsTerry
26-04-15, 07:34
Davit, is it possible for people with diagnosed or undiagnosed personality disorders to modify their core beliefs? I won't say "change" as I believe this is too much of a sweeping statement.
Yes, it is Pulisa. In fact, there is a newer form of therapy I came across that seems to aim at doing just this, Schema Therapy. There are some studies emerging where it is working on people where CBT has failed and it is aimed at PD's.
They will obviously just be the diagnosed ones though.
Schemas are thought to be core beliefs that are deeper and more connected to our sense of identity, hence hard to change.
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